Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2006, 09:29:56 AM
And no, this thread was not created purely for IanSane's enjoyment. Again, this is to refocus us Nintendo fans on the pessimistic possibilities of the future so we can start to take an impassionate look at our favorite company. Once again, these things vary in likelihood, but who cares, just the analytical exercise of anticipating pitfalls will serve us well!
1. What if the Wii exhibits hardware malfunctions on an X360 level?
Sure, this is Nintendo we're talking about here, but the technology is new (dual-medium slot loading disc drive) and advanced (motion sensing). And besides, this is launch, bad stuff always happens at launch.
2. What if the Wiimote+nunchuck combo costs $50?
That's how much the wireless X360 controller costs, the wired version costs $40. Prices have simply gone up... not to mention how much more the Wii controller has built into it.
3. What if third party games cost $60?
They could get greedy!
4. The Wiimote might last only 10-20 hours on full charge/batteries
Nintendo's already distanced themselves from the 100-hour wavebird. But the Wiimote has motion sensing, rumble, bluetooth wireless, AND a simple IR camera! What if this thing's battery life is just inhibitive for marathon gaming?
5 . Lackluster online support at launch
We already know that SSBB isn't going to make it at launch (it's landing 2007 sometime), and we already know that Metroid 3 won't be online either. Pangya may not be online either. But what if CoD isn't online, or Red Steel, or Need For Speed Carbon! We know almost nothing about specific Wii games going online, all we have is speculation and vague promises. Maybe Nintendo hasn't even gotten everything worked out yet, maybe it'll be like the DS: online sometime later?
6. Small Virtual Console Library at Launch
We all know that Nintendo's back catalog is drool-worthy, but what if retro support is small and lacks the lesser known titles? What if Nintendo only delivers 10-15 games from their vaults ta launch, we only get those same old 6 Genesis classics (Sonic, Altered Beast, etc.) and Hudson only gives us those three basic TG-16 titles (Bonk, R-Type, Adventure Island)?
7. People complain about Zelda for Wii feeling "un-whole"
What if the gaming media latches onto this game and starts complaining more about how Nintendo shoe-horned a GC game into the Wii than about the Wii's benefits?
8. Nintendo uses a proprietary 12cm DvD format ala GC
All we know is that the Wii can read 12cm DVD discs, but no ones even told us a single thing more about the format, what if this is an unexpected faltering spot?
9. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles doesn't make launch in USA
We've seen precious little of this game despite it's announcement long ago, what if it only makes Japan launch?
10. Third Party ports don't make good use of Wiimote functionality
Perhaps less ambitious third party releases like Call of Duty 3 and Need For Speed: Carbon that are intended for multi-system release won't have enough care put into their porting to make good use of the Wiimote and thus feel clunky, un-fun and inferior. Luckily, EA has avoided this possibility by devoting one entire studio just for Wii ports, so Madden is safe.
11. People find the pointer-functionality to have too many hoops
We know that Halogen lights can confuse the Wii-mote, that the Wiimote actually needs to have the sensor bar in a cone of vision, and that it only works from distances up to 10m. Possibly, in the end, these dfficulties will end up being small. But also, they could end up being significant enough to frustrate casual and non-gamers, and maybe more than just a handful of them.
~via IanSane
12. Sketchy broadband/router support
The DS has had some issues in the past with this same issue. What happens if Wii has difficulty connecting through college dorms? I'm doomed!
~via Ceric
13. Developers get lazy and their ports rely on WiiClassic?
What happens if developers, when porting their games in from other systems, start getting lazy and not even attempting to use the nunchuck wiimote to full possibility, instead half-assing the Wiimote control scheme when they also know they can use the optional Wii Classic controller.
~via Ceric
14. Not true full backward compatibility with Cube?
Hey, even the PS2Slim has issues here. The X360 has huge compatibility issues with lots of games, and the rumors are that the PS3 is going to include an ENTIRE PS2 inside it just to avoid similar issues.
~via Ceric
15. What if there are no high end cables for the ones of us that use them like on the Cube?
I can hear the technophiles crying foul now if they're forced to shop online again.
~via Ceric
16. Nintendo marketting turns out wiik
Nintendo has never had the inclination (or ability) to spend as much marketting their products like Sony, Microsoft, or even EA. What if the Wii launch is no exception, with just a few tv ads and a lack of those win-a-system tie-ins with radio stations and fast food chains?
~Professional 666
17. Nintendo Demo Booths turn out wiik
The Wii presents a very significant marketting challenge: how do you get people to see, get intrigued by, touch, and play the games? And then how do you keep them from stealing the demo controller?
~Crimm
18. Delays (MP:3? Red Steel?)
What if some games can't exactly make it out for launch day? What would a 1 month delay for MP3 mean? A one-month delay for Red Steel?
~couchmonkey
19. Launch "window" blues
Taking that further, what about the whole Launch Window thing? If some key titles come out a month and a half after launch, does that factor in signifcantly, or have we all learned to just accept that "launch window" terminology?
20. Red Steel sucks
And thus, doesn't sell well, and thus, scares away third parties. Then we've gotten nowhere.
~Magik
21. Microsoft drops XBox price for core package to $250, premium for $350 this fall.
DAMN YOU MS!
22. Microsoft releases a "simple" controller knock-off that distracts customers and confuses the issue.
DAMN YOU TO HECK!
23. The graphics just don't cut it.
Nintendo says that their games will be perfectly fine graphically on SDTVs. Whether or not that's true, everyone's assuming that the mainstream gamer won't notice too much difference. But what if... this is a pessimism thread after all!
~Nemo81
24. People complain about the wirdness of FPS controls.
By now we know that the pointer doesn't atually "point." It points at the sensor bar, which moves a cursor (either visible or invisible) on the actual display or tv, wherever that display or TV may be. What if gamers and players are too weirded out by this? What if people like, oh, I don't know, the dreaded CASSAMANTISANE harp on this for hours on end?
25. The Wii becomes victim to a slew of cash-in FPS games.
The obvious use of the Wiimote for FPS games makes developers glut the market and not try as hard as they should. Fear the future.
~ReverendNoahWhateley
and...I can't think of many more at the moment. Surely you other pessimists out there can help me?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Requiem on June 13, 2006, 09:40:16 AM
2 - A valid point.
3 - Hey, it could happen, but I doubt a third party would be dumb enough to do that since their already competing with Nintendo for sales.
4 - This is one of my biggest concerns. Easily eliminated, though, with a dock for the Wiimote.
5 - SSBB: online
6 - 15 games! If nintendo released 5 of their top games for each system, that would be a damn good start! Same with Sega and Hudson.
7 - If it's fun, that's all that matters - screw the press.
8 - Well, I doubt Nintendo would implement the same format as they did with GC simply because the GC drive ran backwards. The Wii is expected to play DVD's so I doubt they can do the same thing here.
Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2006, 09:44:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
5 - SSBB: online
SSBB doesn't arrive at launch. It's projected sometime in 2007..which a pessimist would assume means Holiday 2007.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: JonLeung on June 13, 2006, 09:46:19 AM
Well, I think what likely will happen is the same thing that happens with any generation for anybody - some wacky or cool Japanese game doesn't get translated and get a local release. Boo!
I will admit that I believe the controller could be pricey - or at least it wouldn't surprise me. I don't know much about the technical workings of motion sensitivity and wirelessness and speakers and a possible microphone, but the more stuff they have in there, the more expensive it will likely be. I suppose the "more stuff in the controller" could also drain battery life faster, too.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 13, 2006, 09:59:06 AM
Other than that though I think because of Sony's insane price that Nintendo merely just has to not suck in order to, at the very least, increase their market share. I think if they release good games on a regular basis they'll do quite good just because of the price.
The ultimate thing to go wrong though is a market crash caused by all three companies losing their focus. Sony and MS are making multimedia centres and Nintendo is going after non-gamers. No one is really focusing on the core gamer group. So assuming their new audience doesn't bite I could see all three consoles selling well below expectations. Nintendo however probably has the best backup plan because at least their console is affordable.
Post by: JonLeung on June 13, 2006, 10:09:27 AM
I've seen kids struggling with Donkey Konga at Toys R Us. If they don't get the point of using the Wiimote, they might get turned off of it altogether.
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 13, 2006, 11:02:35 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2006, 11:04:28 AM
This is from a Quick Google search explaining the process. If you can watch "How its Made" on the Science channel they have a much more complete version.
$50 for the Wiimote Combo would stink.
5. Also be bad
6. Would be disappointing but not really that bad. Now 2 years from now is a different story.
7. I think we are going to get something similar no matter what.
8. This will happen. Nintendo is very anti-piracy.
9. That would be a shame. But if it means a more fully featured game with more incentive to the back tracking, like giving more of those little stories each time (hint, hint) or online/DS FF:CC compatiblilty. I'm all for it.
10. This is going to happen unless Nintendo is putting it's foot down at the top level. All we can do are avoid those games and tell the publisher why. The last part is really important.
11. I think this goes with 1. Nintendo knows what happens when a technology flops for a company like them. It's doom. If this does happen I would think there be people who would be working those 80hrs weeks to make it right and get the new version out ASAP.
12. Sketchy broadband/router support.
13. Every game uses WiiClassic
14. Not true full backward compatibility with Cube. (In particular MP:2, Battalion Wars, and F-Zero (They don't work on my Cube and I'm holding out for a Wii, ok MP:2 works most of the time.))
15. No high end cables for the ones of us that use them on the Cube
Post by: King of Twitch on June 13, 2006, 12:59:08 PM
Post by: please let me in, please on June 13, 2006, 01:10:21 PM
Post by: IceCold on June 13, 2006, 03:27:17 PM
QuoteFirst off, I will say that I think Nintendo should pack in the classic controller at launch. Not only will it allow VC games to be played, but the whole userbase will have it, and therefore 3rd parties will be allowed to use it for their games. I agree that Nintendo's focus is on the motion sensing, and most of the games I would buy would use that, but there has to be the option for 3rd parties. What would you rather, not getting a game at all or getting a port that uses the shell?
10. Third Party ports don't make good use of Wiimote functionality
13. Developers get lazy and their ports rely on WiiClassic?
However, classic included or not, this is one of my greatest worries about the Wii. HD is being pushed hard by both Sony and Microsoft. They are both forcing games released onto their consoles to support HD. With this said, most of the multiplatform games for the next cycle of consoles will be designed with High Definition in mind. So how does the Wii factor into all of this? Well, the results could differ greatly. One one hand, multiplatform developers could choose to forgo Wii development altogether. This is not likely, and most of these developers have already confirmed support for the Rev. A more likely scenario would be that companies wanting to make an easy port will quickly scale back their games and slip them into the Wii's library. The end result could be an unpolished game which may even look like a GameCube one graphically. Look at Tony Hawk, for example. This would not bode well for Nintendo. It was often a complaint that the GameCube got the worst multiplatform ports of them all, since they were quick ports and not developed specifically for the Cube. The same situation could happen with the Wii, except potentially worse. Combine this with the GameCube's infamous 3rd party software tie-in ratio and the Revolution is in a tough situation.
And then there's the whole aspect of multiplatform titles trying to use the control scheme. These titles probably won't be developed specifically to cater to the Wii's features. The same companies wanting a quick port will either use the shell or try to add in features at the last minute. If the control scheme is used as a gimmick and does not add to the game in any way, it will mean trouble. I suspect this that many games will use the NRC in an unintuitive and unimaginative way for multiplatform ports, and this could even make them worse games than they started off as.
The good news is that even though many of the multiplatform games are not up to par graphically, they have so far used the controls pretty well - Tony Hawk and Madden being the examples. Hopefully, Nintendo continues to go around to 3rd parties offering their help on how to implement the controls. And, of course, the exclusives will really show what the Wii can do - they will push the interface and the hardware.
I am also quite worried about the 2nd console strategy - I never liked it. If Nintendo successfully attracts the new market, then it won't matter, but for the moment, I don't know if it's a good idea, though it may be necessary. This goes back to multiplatform games (I may be overestimating the power of these, but I feel that they are very important, as they add to the shelf space and make the system seem to be supported well, even if they aren't actually that good). If the Wii is treated as a second console, no one will buy multiplatform games for it, as they would buy the games for their 360 or PS3. 3rd party software sales are already bad on Nintendo systems, and this could make them even worse. But if the port is unique enough and better than the other versions because of the controls, then it would be perfect for Nintendo.
It all comes back to the controls.
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2006, 03:42:30 PM
No offense to anyone. I don't mind if some games offer it but I expect most to use the WiiMote Combo in some way, shape, or form. I'm a little worry about the And Proposition to but, it makes since PS3 and XBox360 are gunning for a similar experience. The library of the PS2 and the online that Live offers. Nintendo, wants these but, is after unique games. That's what Nintendo's strength is but the blood is getting dilute and they need new blood. In the end Nintendo's end goal is basically the same but there going the long way to get there.
Post by: ssj4_android on June 13, 2006, 04:15:29 PM
Oh, and I think Wii's router support will be a lot better, since it's b instead of g, and presumably isn't rate limited.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 13, 2006, 04:16:54 PM
Quite a few Nintendo-published games and 3rd party games were released without any high-profile advertising (not one TV ad). As such, the sales didn't cut it. Word of mouth and IGN flash ads don't cut it (Nintendo Power is such a laffable idea) when Sony and Microsoft spend the $$$ to run TV ads for a single product for a whole month (and sometimes more). Then in the other corner we've got piss-weak-flaccid Nintendo's 2 week maximum advertising run on GameCube games, while I remember Eidos ran Soul Reaver ads for nearly a half year.
Yeah, good job Twin Snakes, Killer7, Eternal Darkness, Phoenix Wright, Battalion Wars, Lost in Blue, Trace Memory, Rub Rabbits, Beach Spikers BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH UALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALEUALE
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2006, 04:39:23 PM
Kairon bring back 1-7 without them this is getting confusing.
Post by: Strell on June 13, 2006, 05:05:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The ultimate thing to go wrong though is a market crash caused by all three companies losing their focus. Sony and MS are making multimedia centres and Nintendo is going after non-gamers. No one is really focusing on the core gamer group. So assuming their new audience doesn't bite I could see all three consoles selling well below expectations.
Yes. I wholeheartedly agree.
I mean, the 360 doesn't have hardcore genres on it. No sir. You won't find a new FPS on there every month. That stuff is played out. We only get dating sims these days. When was the last time you took up the role of Hero Protagonist, killing the opposition, be they in World War 2, or in space, or in Hell, or in the jungle? I never see tanks or sniper rifles on the 360. It's all purses all the time.
And the PS3? What are they thinking? I can't think of any hardcore gamers that would enjoy MGS4, FF13, Tekken 6, Virtua Fighter 5, Devil May Cry 4, and Resident Evil 5. I only know old grannies and little school girls who play those. Hell, even my mom plays Tekken. She whoops ass with Eddy Gordo. So I can see why the PS3 appeals to her, but certainly not a hardcore audience. Big numbers after a game series = so not hardcore. You lost me when you got over FF12. 12 is the limit. 13 is sooooooo middle aged soccer mom.
Nintendo doesn't even count anymore. They don't make Zelda, or Metroid, or Mario, or Warioware, or Mario Kart, or Kirby, or Smash Bros, or Fire Emblem, or Paper Mario, or Advance Wars, or Mario Party, or F-zero, or Pokemon anymore. All they want to make is Cooking Mama and Nintendogs. Don't expect to see anything for you 1980s gamers. Ever. Nintendo just wants to make games that train your brain.
If you disagree with me, you are a terrorist, and I hope the FBI is after you.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 13, 2006, 06:07:44 PM
2) What if because of this new found success, Yamouchi come back to his throne and rules Nintendo withan iron FIST(again)?
3) What if gamers really aren't into the whole Wii thing and decide to pony up the cash to buy PS3's instead?
4) What if MS actually releases some surprise games that are HUGE hits in Japan and people completely ignore PS3 and Wii?
5) What if I actually had another rediculous reason to fill in "what if" #5?
6) What if most Wii's turns out like launch Xbox's, 360's, PS2's and probably PS3's too.... DEFECTIVE, and with only a 3 month warranty?
7) What if I actually took this pessimistic thing seriously and stop trying to fill in the missing 7 reasons that should have been b4 #'s 8 - 15?
p.s. yes I see the Zelda reasoning but it wasn't numbered
Post by: Crimm on June 13, 2006, 06:36:18 PM
2. Nintendo demos are like GC displays, most non Nintendo games are just videos. I don't wanna see videos, especially on the Wii. Graphically, videos don't play into Nintendo's hand. They're gonna be blown out of the water in terms of looks. They need every game even mentioned at demo kiosks to be playable.
3. People aren't willing to give it a try outside of the gaming community. Nintendo wants to go mainstream, but they're going to have to convince people to try it. That could be really hard.
Post by: Mario on June 13, 2006, 08:44:55 PM
1. It's already happening, and Nintendo deserves it for baiting us along for 3 years then SLAPPING US IN THE FACE.
2. Noone cares.
3. Noone cares.
4. Noone cares. Buy Red Steel.
5. Nope.
6. Maybe. Not an issue for me though.
7. No. If so, those developers wont be worth our time anyway and they'll learn that.
8. Noone cares.
The only thing i'd be worried about is shipment problems, there wont be enough Wii for everyone. Plus there's a higher chance they could stuff it up with all the fancy technology going into this beast of a gaming system.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 13, 2006, 10:47:25 PM
Quote
1) What if Nintendo succeeds and we are no longer rooting for the under dog.?
Seriously it seems that that would be the worst result for this forum, everyone seems to enjoy being pessimistic.
Post by: wandering on June 13, 2006, 11:58:09 PM
Quote
I think the biggest thing that could go wrong is if the controller issues that were present at E3 are common place.
I think that's my biggest concern, as well. We know the IR functionality will have issues, will it affect people's purchase? Though the fact that, even with though there were problems with the demo units at E3, no one except Joystiq really seemed to care about them....
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2006, 12:26:11 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: King of Twitch on June 14, 2006, 12:31:48 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2006, 02:00:35 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: thejeek on June 14, 2006, 02:20:08 AM
Post by: RiskyChris on June 14, 2006, 04:29:11 AM
Post by: mantidor on June 14, 2006, 06:14:20 AM
What if the gaming media latches onto this game and starts complaining more about how Nintendo shoe-horned a GC game into the Wii than about the Wii's benefits?"
Im pretty sure this will happen. Its really sad that Nintendo actually pushed TP as one of the big launch titles. Back when I was supposing Nintendo was going to do it I was kind of joking, because I didnt expect Nintendo to be so stupid. This little tactic they are pushing has a terrible flaw. Nintendo is claiming the controller to be the new way to play games, the real next generation, yet this game has a GC counterpart, it really makes the remote looks like just replacing buttons for gestures and it really afffects the overall image of the remote, it just doesnt seem to be that innovative. Maybe if this wasn't being advertised as a big launch title but rather a GC title with aditional benefits for wii owners the press could react better.
Besides it was totally unnecessary. Being the console so cheap TP could be use to advertize the backward compatibility without any shoehorned functionality. All they did was to tremendously piss off some of us. I really doubt the people who werent going to touch TP and now are going to because of the functionality are significant to the console's success. I even think is totally possible the "non-games" like wii-sports or wii-music will outsell TP wii version easily. In fact thats exactly what Nintendo wants, they want Nintendogs/Brain Age-like success with the console and that wont be achieved with Zelda.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 14, 2006, 07:58:54 AM
I've never rooted for Nintendo because they're the underdog. My fandom of Nintendo is more like being a Toronto Maple Leaf fan. I'm rooting for a team that used to be a powerhouse and used to win all the time and now isn't, which is frustrating since I still kind of expect them to.
"Nintendo is claiming the controller to be the new way to play games, the real next generation, yet this game has a GC counterpart, it really makes the remote looks like just replacing buttons for gestures and it really afffects the overall image of the remote, it just doesnt seem to be that innovative."
I agree with this. I've never been too hot for the DS touchscreen and a big reason for that is that Nintendo made a big stink about it like it was some essential feature and then their flagship title was Super Mario 64. Well that gave me something to compare to and it was immediately obvious that the N64 game controlled better than the DS game. Ooops. Not exactly an ideal first impression. But then that didn't hurt the DS so Nintendo probably thinks something similar won't hurt the Wii. I think the DS got really lucky with the PSP being a total dud. Though now that the PS3 is $600 I think the Wii's situation is looking a whole lot more like the DS' situation, so maybe it won't matter.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 08:21:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
Besides it was totally unnecessary. Being the console so cheap TP could be use to advertize the backward compatibility without any shoehorned functionality. All they did was to tremendously piss off some of us. I really doubt the people who werent going to touch TP and now are going to because of the functionality are significant to the console's success. I even think is totally possible the "non-games" like wii-sports or wii-music will outsell TP wii version easily. In fact thats exactly what Nintendo wants, they want Nintendogs/Brain Age-like success with the console and that wont be achieved with Zelda.
I look at this a step down the road.
Let's review the facts:
1. There are a certain group of gamers who will only ever TOUCH a Nintendo console when it is graced with a Zelda game, the "Zelda Zealots", if you will. For many people, Wind Waker was NOT this game.
2. The Gamecube had craptacular 3rd party support through its life and a craptacular launch.
3. The sale of the console is the hardest sale to make. The software sales come far easier after someone has bought the console already.
4. Using TP to push the Wii will get far more people to buy the console, which is good for everyone, customers and developers alike.
Using TP to push the Wii increases the chances that it will not suffer the same fate as the GC did. In that light, I cannot fault Nintendo for choosing to do so.
Post by: mantidor on June 14, 2006, 08:26:06 AM
But anyway, the launch is already pretty good without that game, thats why is so unnecessary.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 08:34:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
You (and Nintendo) are putting way too much credit into the selling power of Zelda. The Zelda zealots you mentioned are not significant enough to "save" the sales of any console.
And you're putting way too much credit into the alleged anger of scorned Nintendo fanbois.
Every bit helps, and a Nintendo console launching with a Metroid game AND a Zelda game is unheard of. The graphical upgrades the Wii offers are more than worth it and the new control scheme will go a long way toward keeping the experience fresh.
Even the most die-hard Sony and MS fanboys are going to look at TP on the Wii on launch day and say, "Damn, that looks nice..." Pair that with MP3 and I believe you'll scarcely find a gamer who will have an excuse to not own one.
The Wii, more than any of Nintendo's previous consoles, needs to make the biggest splash possible when it launches, and if that means holding TP off another few months, so be it.
Post by: mantidor on June 14, 2006, 08:50:32 AM
Now that you made me think about it thats exactly why Nintendo is downplaying the GC original version, people are dumb enough to believe this is wii "exclusive" when it isnt. Forget about the sony and ms fanboys looking TP as having good graphics though, they already are saying it looks like crap.
Post by: JonLeung on June 14, 2006, 09:07:32 AM
The thing that I heard from people who own more than one game console this generation, one of which is a GameCube, say they got it "mostly just for Zelda and Metroid".
Having both Zelda and Metroid available for launch is a pretty strong start if those are the franchises people who aren't total Nintendo fans still raise an eyebrow at in interest. They appeal more to the older casual gamer than Mario, sorry to say.
I almost wonder why Nintendo doesn't space out those two releases, but if they want to throw out their big guns at launch, it probably says something like "look, we're not forgetting our big, epic franchises!", especially to those who think the Wii will just be about mini-games or quickie games like WarioWare or Wii Sports.
Not that there's anything wrong with WarioWare or Wii Sports, but I think people will want to know that full-fledged adventures will still be an available genre.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 14, 2006, 09:39:49 AM
Marketing and getting demo machines to the public is going to be one of the biggest challenges. Maybe Nintendo should set up stand-alone demo kiosks in malls all over. I think that would be a great idea...that's how Shaw sold people on cable internet back when it was still new, it can work really well for a "show me" product like Wii, and it also delivers the system to people who don't want to hang out in EB Games.
I don't know why so many people are down on the GameCube launch, I thought it was good. The only thing it was really lacking was that one big adventure-type game, like Mario or Zelda. Microsoft supposedly had that game in Halo, but otherwise they had Project Gotham, DOA 3, and not a lot else. On launch day, Nintendo might not have been better than MS, but a few weeks later when Pikmin and SSB:Melee joined the game selection? GameCube beat Xbox, and blew PS2's launch right out of the water.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 14, 2006, 09:49:14 AM
I assume if someone is a "Zelda Zealot" they keep up enough with Zelda news to have heard about the generally poor impressions the Wii version of Zelda received at E3. Why pay more money for a Wii when you can spend significantly less money on a Cube and get the same game with non-borked controls? And if you're a Zelda fan that already bought a Cube for Wind Waker why pay more money for a new console when the same game is available on the console you own?
I think the only people who will buy a Wii for Zelda will either be ignorant types who don't read reviews or impressions or the die-hard Nintendo nuts that would buy the Wii no matter what.
We talk about the launch in a positive light but we honestly don't know what the launch is exactly. It's assumed Metroid will be a launch title and I think it was annouced as such but there could be a delay or it's one of those pesky "launch period" wishy-washy situations where a Nintendo exec's view of a launch game and everyone else's view of a launch game is totally different.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 09:53:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor My rants wont do a damn thing to affect Nintendo's decisions. Im just saying the effect of TP wii version for the console is practically negligible, even if the press goes with me and criticize the controls to no end. The launch is good, third parties are on board and the remote so far has delivered. Now if this was a totally new Zelda developed from the ground up for the console the impact on launch might be bigger, but with a GC counterpart the attention the game recieves is split, and it doesnt have the same effect....
I'm not convinced that anyone will even acknowledge the GC version except the die-hard Nintendo fans, what with how little press and fanfare the cube gets.
Releasing an incredible game for a console which Nintendo themselves left to gather dust for two years isn't suddenly going to make everything right again.
Quote
Now that you made me think about it thats exactly why Nintendo is downplaying the GC original version, people are dumb enough to believe this is wii "exclusive" when it isnt. Forget about the sony and ms fanboys looking TP as having good graphics though, they already are saying it looks like crap.
It's not that they're dumb enough, it's that the GC failed to the point where many people don't even consider its presence relevant.
Also, care to quote me some of these fanbois?
I think Nintendo is doing an excellent job when it comes to winning back some of their lost market share. All of the people who blasted Nintendo for not paying enough attention to older gamers and bought a competing console will have a slew of franchises aimed at older gamers available on the Wii from day one: TP, MP3, Red Steel, CoD3, etc. (I'm sure I'm forgetting some). Graphic whores aside, they're bringing the goddamn GAMES which is something they had a tremendously hard time with during the GC's launch.
The choice is simple:
A) Release a fantastic game which probably cost millions in development onto a dying console with little hope and/or promise.
B) Release the same game on your promising new console as a launch title, giving potential buyers even more of a reason to pick it up and likely earning the game more sales than it would have seen on your previous console.
But they went with...
C) Release the game on both consoles, an improved version on your new console, and market the hell out of the new version in an attempt to satisfy both the owners of the old console and potential owners of the new console.
It's a no-brainer.
Post by: JonLeung on June 14, 2006, 10:09:53 AM
I'm not against the idea of Twilight Princess on the 'Cube if they think it will sell. I guess they didn't want to break their promise that it would be on the GameCube. (Though how much does a promise matter, when SSB:B was supposedly for launch?) I still think it's a little redundant, honestly.
There should be some sort of coupon with the GameCube game for the Wii game, or if you register both versions on the Nintendo web site you get some kind of coupon or voucher or rebate or something. I would hate to be a person who buys the GameCube version and then find out that I love the Wii and then wonder why I just didn't buy the Wii version in the first place. It's like, after E3, who wouldn't get a Wii? And it plays GameCube games too anyway.
Post by: Rhoq on June 14, 2006, 10:13:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I've never been too hot for the DS touchscreen and a big reason for that is that Nintendo made a big stink about it like it was some essential feature and then their flagship title was Super Mario 64. Well that gave me something to compare to and it was immediately obvious that the N64 game controlled better than the DS game. Ooops. Not exactly an ideal first impression. But then that didn't hurt the DS so Nintendo probably thinks something similar won't hurt the Wii.
I believe there is a big difference in the case of SM64DS and LOZ:TTP Wii. When the DS launched, I remember Nintendo mentioning (and somewhat bragging) that Super Mario 64 DS was the result of approximately 9 months of worth of porting and retooling to work with the touch screen. Given more time, I believe the touch screen analog control could've been a bit tighter (let's face it, it will never be perfect, but it can be at least adequate).
With the Legend Of Zelda, I wouldn't be surprised if Wii control had been in development all long (or at least since early 2005). By the time the game is finally released this Fall, the Wii controls should have had a good 18 to 24 months worth of development time, if not more. Even though Nintendo dismissed all of those "Zelda moved to Revolution" rumors, I've always believed that it was the most logical thing to do. Those rumors had been around since before E3 2005 and it probably came from a source workin for Nintendo.
Nintendo sure as hell has had a jumpstart on working with the controller technology and I fully expect the Wii version to play just as well as the GameCube version. If it doesn't, it could really turn people off and quite honestly Nintendo can't afford to make that mistake and they know it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 10:39:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane I think the only people who will buy a Wii for Zelda will either be ignorant types who don't read reviews or impressions or the die-hard Nintendo nuts that would buy the Wii no matter what.
It's safe to assume that more of the former exist than the latter, many millions more.
Furthermore, I've heard mixed reviews about every Wii game at E3. Some people loved it, others said it was too difficult to control.
But the real truth of the matter is that all of these people played the Wii game (which are all unfinished) under some downright sh*tty conditions.
First of all, they had 5-10 minutes, tops, to get a hang of the control schemes. For most people (I'm betting myself included) that's not NEARLY long enough to adjust.
Second, TP isn't finished. None of those games were finished. In fact, I'd be stunned if most of these games didn't have the control schemes altered, refined or possibly revamped entirely by the time they launched.
Third, any "Zelda Zealot" who's smart enough to read the impressions will also be smart enough to understand that the game isn't done.
The term "Zelda Zealot" is somewhat misleading: I don't mean a person who is a die-hard Zelda fan, but rather a person who believes that the only thing worth playing on a Nintendo console is LoZ and like I said, I don't think WW would have been their cup of tea.
Rather than snag these people at the end of the GC's lifespan, every shred of common sense says to try to sell them a Wii. JonLeung is right: most people do buy Nintendo consoles just for Metroid and Zelda. Thus, having both available for launch will ensure that the Wii TRULY hits the ground running.
Remember, Nintendo isn't doing this to show that the they can push copies of age-old franchises. They're doing this because they need to further convince developers who are on the fence that the Wii can indeed bring the big numbers and stellar sales on launch day will establish that point as a fact.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 14, 2006, 10:44:32 AM
The concerns about the controllers I think are blown out of proportion.
1) We know that Nintendo is still working on the controllers and still working to getting the design perfect...which includes functionality. I think most of concerns with the controller are from commentary about using the controller at E3. Well E3 is the most extreme case of using a controller, and is DEFINATELY not optimal playing conditions. So I believe in the end, this will be a nonissue.
2)Games will come when they come. Nintendo is learning how to stagger games better and better...and they are learning everyday how to strength their marketing, and product lines. We notice Nintendo is not afraid to release two titles for a system on the same day anymore. (Tetris and Metroid Prime: Hunters) and Nintendo has commented how they understand launch lineup is important. So games will be available when they are ready, and they will be great.
3)Online will come when it comes. People are worried that Nintendo still isn't taking online seriously, and I don't buy it. Sure there may or may not be any online ready games by launch, but Nintendo has been talking and pushing online content with the Wii since the beginning. I can wait for a great experience.
4)Third Party games not being up to quality with the controller. I hear these concerns, yet every developer interview we have read and heard has discussed how committed they are to exploring the full potential of the controller, and spending the necessary time in perfecting it. Even reading about the Spongbob Square Pants game, the control seems innovative and creative.
5)Only a small amount of virtual console games available at launch. I just really don't see how that will be likely. It isn't going to take long to convert the ROMS into a virtual console format, and we have known about the virtual console for over a year...which means Nintendo has already known about it for even longer. Plus, comments that over 100 Sega Genesis and Turbo Graphics 16 games will be available for the console means that Nintendo literally has 100s and 100s of games to put out on the console. There is no need to worry about releasing too many at once and running out, or anything.
6)Too many accessories at launch. This could bring up problems. But there is only 2 real accessories you need for the Wii. The classic controllers and the Wiimote. Everything else will be available for niche gaming, if you desire it. (Such as the Wiigun) and most of those will be packed into the game using it.
Basically I think these problems are really none issues for the consumer. They will only become a problem if they haven't been addressed much later after launch...and some are just paranoia anyway.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 14, 2006, 11:17:49 AM
Post by: Aussiedude on June 14, 2006, 11:43:07 AM
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on June 14, 2006, 11:50:35 AM
Post by: JonLeung on June 14, 2006, 11:52:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Aussiedude
The entire first shipment could get stolen.
Well, if you want to get really pessimistic...
3. Despite laws likely prohibiting such monopolistic actions, Microsoft buys every single Wii only to physically destroy them all. (They can certainly afford to, except for the likely legal reprocussions.)
2. Some psychotic dictator turns out to be an anti-Nintendo fanboy and nukes Nintendo and every plant that has anything to do with the manufacture of Wii parts off of the planet.
1. The Earth or at least its inhabitants are destroyed by plague(s), asteroid(s), nuclear war, Vogons, God in a bad mood, etc.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 12:00:49 PM
Post by: Frozen Atlantic on June 14, 2006, 12:07:19 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 12:11:42 PM
Post by: Artimus on June 14, 2006, 12:24:35 PM
Now THAT is pessimistic.
Post by: IceCold on June 14, 2006, 12:29:31 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 14, 2006, 12:31:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Miyamoto passes away
I was horrified to learn that the motherf*cker is SMOKING but is trying to quit.
SMOKING, ffs...
Post by: please let me in, please on June 14, 2006, 12:31:57 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 14, 2006, 12:36:49 PM
Mankind ending wouldn't be so bad. We would all go to the afterlife, which if we are in heaven will have tons of Nintendo products, and I hear heaven has a killer online network with no lag and unlimited bandwidth.
Miyamoto dying would be tragic, yet at the same time Nintendo has several brilliant and creative minds at Nintendo. It could end up being a blessing in disguise, as younger developers get more chance to push their creative visions in bolder means. It could become a new direction for Nintendo.
And finally I submit to you the reason Vogons haven't destoryed mankind is because they are such big Nintendo fans in the first place.
Post by: mantidor on June 14, 2006, 12:51:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I'm surprised nobody suggested games getting delayed. A delay for MP3 seems entirely possible to me. Something like that could hurt.
Oh I wouldnt care, the demo at E3 didnt give me a good feeling, I was happy when people were saying that Corruption might end up being a 2007 title. I actually would be more confident if Retro delays it, I have this fear that in Japan they are pushing Retro to get the game out no matter what at launch and that would affect the overall quality, lets hope for the best, the guys at Retro haven't dissapointed me so far.
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
You've got Majora's Mask as your avatar...don't you like Zelda?
Probably I like it too much, thats why I want it to be a perfect game no matter how good or bad the launch is or how it will affect Nintendo financially, I wouldve have prefered if all the focus was on the GC, to make it really the best game possible, now theres the doubt that maybe the game could have been better if the focus wasn't splitted.
I love Zelda, but Nintendo is a company and their first and most important objective is to make money, not to make good games. The TP deal just confirms it.
Post by: Ian Sane on June 14, 2006, 02:29:14 PM
If this is the case does that mean that at every E3 Wii games are going to play like sh!t? That would get pretty annoying after awhile. Every impressions reading like "well this game's controls were an exercise in frustration but it might just be the E3 environment screwing with the remote... or it might actually just be a lousy game. Wait for the final review!" It's bad enough that Nintendo makes us wait so long for information. Now we have to wait longer for impressions too.
Post by: Strell on June 14, 2006, 02:59:10 PM
C'mon now.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 14, 2006, 03:50:57 PM
1) Nintendo needs to figure a new means of doing Wii games for E3...perhaps finding a more optimal means of presenting it. Remember this is new technology even for Nintendo...some unforeseen mishaps may have occured.
2) Nintendo finalizes the technology and those mishaps from the first E3 never happen again. Why do we expect perfect in every element of the control the very first time we see it. We forgive early game demos at E3...lets also forgive hardware until we can have the final products in our hands and in our homes.
3) You are right, and the optimal conditions can never occur at E3. So Nintendo will have to throw private media events during E3 to truly show the software off, and at the same time have a presence at E3. Simple.
All I originally meant was, people are judging early hardware in a very harsh enviroment for technology. Lots of radio signals, Wifi, blue tooth, lights, lasers, sound waves, several Wii systems in close proxy to each other. space limited and cramped to how people will play at home.
E3 is not a chance to see how hardware and software will be when you finally play it. But it is an industry event to give the media a taste of what will be available in the future.
I think there is a reason why E3 is industry only, because too many people would walk away from E3 with false impressions and understandings of what they just saw and played.
Post by: EasyCure on June 14, 2006, 04:47:12 PM
Wii only ships in lime green with no new color schemes to EVER be released.
oh and miyamoto passing away is pretty high up there too...
Post by: antman100 on June 14, 2006, 05:13:20 PM
Remote
Nunchuck
Classic controller
Game delays are relative: if the Wii (God, I hate that name) comes out in Sept. and "launch" titles are delayed until late November, no big deal. If it comes out in early Dec. and games are delayed until 2007, it would be brutal for holiday sales.
And just to get this off my chest:
No HD.
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 15, 2006, 07:09:46 AM
Quotefixed ^^
Originally posted by: EasyCure
worst thing that could happen??
Wii only ships in glossy pink with no new color schemes to EVER be released.
oh and miyamoto passing away is pretty high up there too...
on a side note, way too much pessimism here
Post by: Kairon on June 15, 2006, 07:40:12 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Ian Sane on June 15, 2006, 07:50:42 AM
Well I don't recall any controller issues with the Cube at its first E3. It's not uncommon for games to be unpolished at E3 but I don't think the controller itself for a Nintendo console has had issues at the show before.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 15, 2006, 09:27:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor I love Zelda, but Nintendo is a company and their first and most important objective is to make money, not to make good games. The TP deal just confirms it.
Maybe you weren't paying attention the first time so let's try this again:
1. Your Gamecube is gathering dust because Nintendo didn't bring enough 1st party support to acquire the sales which result in better 3rd party support.
2. Releasing Twilight Princess on the GC and only the GC would be putting high octane gas into a broken car.
3. Nintendo needs to convince everyone that the Wii can sell the big numbers so that developers will feel safe in developing for the console, thus ensuring AAA 3rd party titles for the duration of its life span. The GC did not make these numbers and it suffered immensely.
If you want to argue, write up a compelling argument about how, despite all evidence to the contrary, the GC has received consistent excellent titles throughout its entire life span, enough that 3rd party developers have shown unrelenting support for the console and in no way are large 3rd party devs dropping support for the console altogether (Midway, Akklaim, etc.).
Twilight Princess will be the Wii's #1 selling title at launch, I guarantee it. It will probably be the game which will be credited for pushing the most Wiis at launch and will provide a compelling reason to own the console years after launch (just like Halo for the Xbox). In fact, I'd bet an appendage or two that TP sales will blow Halo 3 sales clean out of the water.
This is Nintendo's final shot at the home console market. If they grab last again, the Japanese executives at Nintendo are going to push for them to leave the home console market in favor of focusing all of its efforts on the DRASTICALLY more profitable handheld market.
Twilight Princess boasts 100 hours of gameplay: the biggest and greatest Zelda adventure to DATE. I would be pissed at Nintendo if they DIDN'T release a Wii version. This is the killer app to end all killer apps.
For you to piss and moan about the fact that Nintendo is doing everything they can to avoid another 3rd place finish is laughable, like their decision to release a Wii version of TP was an affront to you personally.
I want Nintendo to finish first this time. I want the Wii to be a console which receives so much 3rd party support that I have a backlog of excellent games to go through rather than sitting there through the summer drought, watching PS2 titles top the sales charts.
TP launching on the Wii will give it an immensely solid launch, coupled with Sports, MP3, Red Steel, Wario Ware, CoD3, etc., the Wii will have every genre covered, including not one but two, possibly three killer apps (if they can get Red Steel working properly, it'll be killer for many).
So please, stop being angry at Nintendo for doing what's best for everyone, their customers included.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Well I don't recall any controller issues with the Cube at its first E3. It's not uncommon for games to be unpolished at E3 but I don't think the controller itself for a Nintendo console has had issues at the show before.
Think analogue stick on the N64.
How well did people adjust to it and how quickly? It took me a little while to get used to it. I'm sure the Wiimote will be no different.
Post by: JonLeung on June 15, 2006, 01:13:42 PM
I typically finish games to the max, and I don't think any game has taken me over 100 in-game hours except the Pokémon games. I might love a 100-hour Zelda, sure, but unless they expect me to stop in awe for twenty minutes every time I see something new, I seriously doubt it will be that long.
Okay, wait - there is one Zelda game I haven't finished to the max...because of a little something called the Hylian Loach. #%$@! What, is that only catchable after putting in 100 hours into Ocarina Of Time? >_<
Post by: Ian Sane on June 15, 2006, 01:36:11 PM
Or it is but a huge chunk of that time is needless busy work like level grinding or fetch quests.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 15, 2006, 02:22:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
Whenever they say "100 hours of gameplay", it never really is, though. I would wager I could finish the game AND do the side-quests in half that time or LESS. (Well, unless they have some crazy side-quests like "collect all ten Golden Skulltulas...and one only appears every ten hours" or something that will definitely push it over 100 hours just by design.)
I typically finish games to the max, and I don't think any game has taken me over 100 in-game hours except the Pokémon games. I might love a 100-hour Zelda, sure, but unless they expect me to stop in awe for twenty minutes every time I see something new, I seriously doubt it will be that long.
Okay, wait - there is one Zelda game I haven't finished to the max...because of a little something called the Hylian Loach. #%$@! What, is that only catchable after putting in 100 hours into Ocarina Of Time? >_<
It took me ~50 hours in a 4-day period to get EVERYTHING in Majora's Mask on my first file, from first opening the game to the very last heart piece. That was a fabulous 50 hours. FABULOUS.
The Hyrule Loach shows up in the pond starting just before dawn, until full morning (it doesn't just appear; you must enter the pond during this window). Basically, wait for the Moon to disappear from Lake Hylia's horizon, then enter the pond. What's important is to catch it while it's resting at its original starting spot. If it leaves the spot, then it has completely lost it's appetite, and very rarely will it return to its spot -- so exit the pond and try again. It is possible to scare it from its spot if you make too much noise by running or swimming. The Sinking Lure is not necessary.
Post by: Donutt007 on June 15, 2006, 02:31:18 PM
What else could go wrong....ummmm, we all end up loving it so damn much that we take a month off work and all lose our jobs,
Post by: Nephilim on June 15, 2006, 03:07:52 PM
Post by: EasyCure on June 15, 2006, 04:19:18 PM
every wii owner with a girlfriend has their wiimote stolen by them (the girlfriend) the second they get up to use the bathroom, and your wiimote is never to be seen again because she's using it as a sex toy while you're crying over the fact you can't play your with your Wii
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 15, 2006, 04:34:09 PM
Post by: mantidor on June 15, 2006, 05:31:58 PM
"1. Your Gamecube is gathering dust because Nintendo didn't bring enough 1st party support to acquire the sales which result in better 3rd party support."
I play my GC almost daily, and I still have plenty of games I havent bought and I want.
"2. Releasing Twilight Princess on the GC and only the GC would be putting high octane gas into a broken car."
So? I couldn't care less.
"3. Nintendo needs to convince everyone that the Wii can sell the big numbers so that developers will feel safe in developing for the console, thus ensuring AAA 3rd party titles for the duration of its life span. The GC did not make these numbers and it suffered immensely."
and they are going to prove that the wii can push millions of software units with Zelda? LOL, that sure is going to convince third parties yes sarcasm... maybe if Red Steel has good sales third parties can be confident, but Zelda selling well in a Nintendo console is the status quo, its no indication of anything, third parties arent stupid.
"If you want to argue, write up a compelling argument about how, despite all evidence to the contrary, the GC has received consistent excellent titles throughout its entire life span, enough that 3rd party developers have shown unrelenting support for the console and in no way are large 3rd party devs dropping support for the console altogether (Midway, Akklaim, etc.)."
I dont understand this at all. The wii isnt going to break apart if it has no TP, why do you think that the wii is "doomed" if such thing happens? A single game will never save a console, not even the "all mighty" ocarina could do it. The GC didnt have -just- the problem of a lackluster launch, it has media storage problems , it has a long period without any games, its marketing sucked big time, it had already lost a lot of ground to playstation's brand and recognition, etc, etc ,etc. It was a whole lot of problems, not -just- the launch.
"Twilight Princess will be the Wii's #1 selling title at launch, I guarantee it. It will probably be the game which will be credited for pushing the most Wiis at launch and will provide a compelling reason to own the console years after launch (just like Halo for the Xbox). In fact, I'd bet an appendage or two that TP sales will blow Halo 3 sales clean out of the water."
Thats absolutely NOT going to happen. At the best case scenario the number of sales for the two games maybe will be comparable. Stop pretending that Zelda is allmighty and omnipotent, thats just fanboyism. The compelling reason to buy the console is very likely to be wiisports, and I wouldnt be surprised if the game outsells Zelda, or any other "non-game" for that matter.
The launch of the wii and the console itself isnt going to be doomed if you remove TP from it, the wii has the right price, the right software and finally, the right image with the gaming public (the name notwithstanding). It will help obviously, Ive never denied it, but it isnt a make-or-break deal for the console.
Post by: Kairon on June 15, 2006, 05:39:28 PM
Now please, move the Zelda Wars to another, more appropriate thread! Thanky you1 Have a nice day!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: mantidor on June 15, 2006, 06:13:26 PM
I agree, but I could live without the ocean being a milimeter higher, Im only complaining about one single raindrop after all
. The console is on a really good track, It has to be a lot of negative things put together to affect this nice change. The response to the remote has been a lot better than I expected, I thought that the press was going to be really divided being such a change, but the only site Ive seen who complained a lot was joystiq. Theres enthusiasm on third parties too. The only big thing that could go wrong is if its priced at $600, but few companies are THAT nuts :P.Post by: wandering on June 15, 2006, 07:43:11 PM
You're saying the Wii would still be fine without Zelda. And yeah, it probably would. The Wii wouldn't sell quite as well, of course...it would take a little longer to build up momentum, a little longer for third party games to pile up, but it probably wouldn't be a system killing loss, you're right.
...The real question is, why do you care? I don't like sugar-free rum ice cream, but I don't put up a fit when I go to get an ice cream and the flavor is there, because I think it somehow affects the quality of the other ice creams or whatever.
Post by: Crimm on June 15, 2006, 08:09:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
what else could go wrong....i know...
every wii owner with a girlfriend has their wiimote stolen by them (the girlfriend) the second they get up to use the bathroom, and your wiimote is never to be seen again because she's using it as a sex toy while you're crying over the fact you can't play your with your Wii
I would count that as something going very very right.
Post by: Kairon on June 15, 2006, 08:49:36 PM
Iansane and Mantidor fuse into a new, more powerful entity: MANTISANE! (Iandor?)
This new monstrous being rampages through downtown Tokyo, confronts a giant Donkey Kong and, depending on whether this is the American or Japanese version, either lives to fight another day or disappears beneath a bloody whirlpool in the sea.
Either way, Nintendo's Tokyo Studio is unfortunate collateral damage and SSBB gets delayed into 2008.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Strell on June 15, 2006, 08:55:09 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 15, 2006, 09:11:53 PM
IT'S RIDGE RACER!
RIIIIIIIIIIIIDGE RACER!!!!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 15, 2006, 10:26:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Why do we expect perfect in every element of the control the very first time we see it."
Well I don't recall any controller issues with the Cube at its first E3. It's not uncommon for games to be unpolished at E3 but I don't think the controller itself for a Nintendo console has had issues at the show before.
That comparison is not really fair, the Wii controller is a new way to interact with your system (both technologically and control wise) and with it comes bugs that need to be worked out. I can pretty much guarantee you that these problems will not be that common (if at all) when you bring the Wii home, I do not believe Nintendo would release a console with such a severe flaw in it. Things will be fine, so don't worry about it.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 16, 2006, 01:57:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
here we go again
"1. Your Gamecube is gathering dust because Nintendo didn't bring enough 1st party support to acquire the sales which result in better 3rd party support."
I play my GC almost daily, and I still have plenty of games I havent bought and I want.
"2. Releasing Twilight Princess on the GC and only the GC would be putting high octane gas into a broken car."
So? I couldn't care less.
"3. Nintendo needs to convince everyone that the Wii can sell the big numbers so that developers will feel safe in developing for the console, thus ensuring AAA 3rd party titles for the duration of its life span. The GC did not make these numbers and it suffered immensely."
and they are going to prove that the wii can push millions of software units with Zelda? LOL, that sure is going to convince third parties yes sarcasm... maybe if Red Steel has good sales third parties can be confident, but Zelda selling well in a Nintendo console is the status quo, its no indication of anything, third parties arent stupid.
"If you want to argue, write up a compelling argument about how, despite all evidence to the contrary, the GC has received consistent excellent titles throughout its entire life span, enough that 3rd party developers have shown unrelenting support for the console and in no way are large 3rd party devs dropping support for the console altogether (Midway, Akklaim, etc.)."
I dont understand this at all. The wii isnt going to break apart if it has no TP, why do you think that the wii is "doomed" if such thing happens? A single game will never save a console, not even the "all mighty" ocarina could do it. The GC didnt have -just- the problem of a lackluster launch, it has media storage problems , it has a long period without any games, its marketing sucked big time, it had already lost a lot of ground to playstation's brand and recognition, etc, etc ,etc. It was a whole lot of problems, not -just- the launch.
"Twilight Princess will be the Wii's #1 selling title at launch, I guarantee it. It will probably be the game which will be credited for pushing the most Wiis at launch and will provide a compelling reason to own the console years after launch (just like Halo for the Xbox). In fact, I'd bet an appendage or two that TP sales will blow Halo 3 sales clean out of the water."
Thats absolutely NOT going to happen. At the best case scenario the number of sales for the two games maybe will be comparable. Stop pretending that Zelda is allmighty and omnipotent, thats just fanboyism. The compelling reason to buy the console is very likely to be wiisports, and I wouldnt be surprised if the game outsells Zelda, or any other "non-game" for that matter.
The launch of the wii and the console itself isnt going to be doomed if you remove TP from it, the wii has the right price, the right software and finally, the right image with the gaming public (the name notwithstanding). It will help obviously, Ive never denied it, but it isnt a make-or-break deal for the console.
Jesus Christ...
Is your bitterness towards the Wii version of TP so big that you are willing to cloud yourself to the truth right in front of you? That you are willing to argue against the one thing you believe in?
To be honest, I would've LOVED to have played Twilight Princess back on Fall 2005, when it was confirmed that the game would be launching that year. And I will confess I was sad when they delayed it many times. But you know what? If in order for the Wii to be a HUGE success at launch it meant having to delay the game in order to release it alongside it, I am fine with the decision.
WHY are you saying that the Wii version of TP will not sell? Out of all the titles being announced for the Wii, the biggest of them all is easily TP. TP was Japan's number 1 game at E3 for God's sake. The anticipation for this game is high and Nintendo knows that. Not even the bad press the game got before and after E3 is going to change the fact that people want this game and BADLY. They know that the anticipation and hype towards TP is high enough that it will push their brand new console and we all know, even you, that Nintendo needs to push their new console onto the market and HARD.
Engrave these words onto your mind...
NINTENDO WILL MARKET THE HELL OUT OF THE WII VERSION OF TWILIGHT PRINCESS.
You can sit in your little corner and say "LALALALALALALALA I AM NOT LISTENING!", but you know damn well that this will not happen. Nintendo ignored the Gamecube in favor of the Wii at E3. They only had the Wii version of TP at E3. They know that pushing the Wii version of the game will create an awareness of both the new Nintendo console and the game that the GC version of TP would not have been able to do on its own.
But I guess we are the only ones that care about Nintendo's future. I mean, you guys pretty much proved that you don't give a crap about them just as long as they release the games and they keep you fat and happy...
Post by: Infernal Monkey on June 16, 2006, 02:44:58 AM
Post by: JonLeung on June 16, 2006, 04:43:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
Well, Factor 5's no longer Nintendo's unwanted friend, so there's no danger of another disaster like Rogue Leader to drag down the launch. What could possibly go wrong?
"Disaster like Rogue Leader"? Excuse me? That was the best GameCube launch day game! (Or are you being sarcastic? >_< ) Now, I was never good at any game involving flight but when the first drought of good games hit, I played that to death and soon earned all the Gold and Ace medals. Yes, I survived the three-and-a-half hour Endurance mission - TWICE. I'm proud of having played Rogue Leader, but I might not have if there were more decent games at launch.
Now Rogue Squadron III...what was it now...Rebel Strike? The one with some on-foot missions? Man, oh, man, now THAT was definitely a disaster. That version of Endurance was pathetic when it turned out all you literally have to do is mash both the shoot and jump buttons to survive without putting in any intellectual effort. Besides the lack of challenge, Rebel Strike felt sloppy...
Post by: Ian Sane on June 16, 2006, 07:05:53 AM
Well they did release a videogame system that could cause permanent eye damage. I'll admit overall they're trustworthy though.
Post by: Ceric on June 16, 2006, 07:10:33 AM
E3 is never a good setting for wireless appliances from what I can tell. I mean I guess you could build a Pherite cage, I think I have the term right (Its a cage made out of a copper mesh that blacks out unwanted signals), but I think the FCC would have a problem with that. I wonder how the Wavebird would perform under such conditions? I mean the whole Nintendo area could only have 16 because of there humongous range.
If Zelda was release right now for the Cube then Yeah I say Nintendo was shooting themselves in the foot. Last year no. This year yes. But lets say there is a precision strike on Nintendo and all assets to make TP were lost.
Would it hurt the launch? Sure.
Would it hurt it more then scraping your knee? Probably not.
Nintendo is still showing a strong launch lineup. In my opinion losing MP3 would hurt more than TP. MP3 has the potential to show off the controls in a genre that is largely unfilled on Nintendo platforms. A genre that people are anxious to see proven with this new control scheme. Everyone has faith that Zelda will be excellent. It comes with the pedigree.
On with the pessimism. Now that you mention it. I would really hate for a another perfectly good Space combat game to have walking around areas that were more than just pauses between missions. What I want. I want Privateer. That's what I want. The best game of the Wing Commander series and the only game to have get what it was trying to do 100% correct, unfortunately it was also one of the games that couldn't make the transition to Win95+. I want to fly a ship and I want to blow things up. Even if it's on rails. I also like to have Serious Sam game. Kill everything, darn the puzzles.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 16, 2006, 07:12:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"I do not believe Nintendo would release a console with such a severe flaw in it."
Well they did release a videogame system that could cause permanent eye damage. I'll admit overall they're trustworthy though.
Well the VB flaws had to do with the lack of tech to adequately achieve their ambition, VR just wasn't at the level needed at the time, Motion sensing on the other hadn shouldn't be an issue, as its a much more mature technology.
Post by: Kairon on June 16, 2006, 07:24:01 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 16, 2006, 07:41:28 AM
Aside from disgracing itself with clones (especially turning Ganondorf from an evil wizard into an evil ninja), there are a number of ways we can see that the game is clearly unfinished.
But the worst is balance, as the character tiers are VERY evident. I enjoy playing as Bowser because I see him as somewhat of a handicap, and while I do well, I don't always win. When I play as Fox (and I don't even consider myself a good Fox player) I never lose. In SSBM, speed is everything. If the same problem still exists in Brawl, I will be ROYALLY pissed...
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor Thats absolutely NOT going to happen. At the best case scenario the number of sales for the two games maybe will be comparable. Stop pretending that Zelda is allmighty and omnipotent, thats just fanboyism. The compelling reason to buy the console is very likely to be wiisports, and I wouldnt be surprised if the game outsells Zelda, or any other "non-game" for that matter.
The launch of the wii and the console itself isnt going to be doomed if you remove TP from it, the wii has the right price, the right software and finally, the right image with the gaming public (the name notwithstanding). It will help obviously, Ive never denied it, but it isnt a make-or-break deal for the console.
First of all, I never said anything about "dooming" the launch. I'm sure the Wii will launch well, but I'm sure it'll launch a hell of a lot better with TP.
Second, you seem to not realize that TP Wii was the #1 most anticipated E3 game in Japan, beating out FF13 at #2. It's things like that which make it possible to speculate that Nintendo has Japan in the bag.
3rd parties won't care about which software sells: all they'll care about is that a f*ckload of Wiis are sold on launch day, proving that people are willing to invest their money in a console with a new and unproven control scheme.
That, above ALL else, is what Nintendo needs to do right now: prove that their innovation will push consoles and sell through all 4 million of their initial Wii supply at an alarming rate. They need to get a user base established ASAP, and that'll come much faster from TP than it will from unproven non-games.
My last bit of pessimism? That they don't have TP ready in time for the Wii launch.
Post by: Kairon on June 16, 2006, 08:08:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
"One raindrop raises the ocean."
I agree, but I could live without the ocean being a milimeter higher, Im only complaining about one single raindrop after all
Lol, the Dutch would beg to differ. Every millimeter higher the ocean gets is a millimeter closer they are to their DOOM! MUAHAHAHAHAHA! MUAHAHAHAHA! MUAHAHAHA*GACK*GEEZE*WHHEZE*SPUTTER*
*ahem*
Indeed.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: EasyCure on June 16, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: CrimmQuote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
what else could go wrong....i know...
every wii owner with a girlfriend has their wiimote stolen by them (the girlfriend) the second they get up to use the bathroom, and your wiimote is never to be seen again because she's using it as a sex toy while you're crying over the fact you can't play your with your Wii
I would count that as something going very very right.
ok so maybe im the jealous type. that and i'll probably take a week off of work to play Wii at launch, so having the controller stollen like that would still be wrong to me. though if every girl did that, im sure we'd see MUCH more non-games geared toward the female audience...and lots of needless rumble.
Post by: Ceric on June 16, 2006, 11:21:33 AM
Post by: Magik on June 16, 2006, 02:41:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
3rd parties won't care about which software sells: all they'll care about is that a f*ckload of Wiis are sold on launch day, proving that people are willing to invest their money in a console with a new and unproven control scheme.
3rd parties don't care about launch day sales since everybody knows that console launches ALWAYS sell out. Its the first year or two that will determine how they treat the system and also, how 3rd party titles sell will contribute to how much support if any they will put onto the system.
If Red Steel fails in terms of sales and gameplay - for the love of god, fix the problems -, the low 3rd party support the GC had might repeat itself on the Wii. Ubisoft is one of the big 3rd party developers in the world and if they screw up and Red Steel turns out like trash or sells like trash, other 3rd party developers who are on the fence on the Wii will shift focus to the 360 or PS3.
Post by: Strell on June 16, 2006, 05:26:12 PM
That's like being sad oxygen is so plentiful to help you stay alive.
Post by: vudu on June 16, 2006, 05:33:55 PM
That's something that could go wrong in a big way.
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on June 16, 2006, 06:56:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
It would not be needless. It would be intregral to the games play mechanics.
lol at Sony for leaving it out
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 16, 2006, 08:35:49 PM
I suspect that the clone characters were intentional. Like, even if they had time to think of completely new move-sets, they would have kept the clones. I don't use them, but I know plenty of people who are much better with one clone than another.
Also, I've won against people playing Fox, while I was Bowser. And Bowser isn't even my good character (Marth/Sheik).
Post by: wandering on June 16, 2006, 08:45:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
Nintendo could not have the sensor bar ready in time for launch.
That's something that could go wrong in a big way.
Eh. They haven't finalized the design. Doesn't really look Nintendo's having any major Blu-Ray-like problems with it.
Post by: Ghisy on June 17, 2006, 12:00:26 AM
I'm a little annoyed with Wiimotes using batteries. Why can't Big N make them rechargeable?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 17, 2006, 01:51:13 AM
Post by: EasyCure on June 17, 2006, 08:15:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Avinash_TyagiQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
It would not be needless. It would be intregral to the games play mechanics.
lol at Sony for leaving it out
hm...i recal there being some hypno-trance like game with techno music of some sort that came with an attachment that was a long black shaft that did nothing but vibrate as the levels got more intense. im almost positive i found a link to a 'girl gamer' site about it in these very forums! anyone know the game im talking about? i think it started with an R if that helps lol
oh and it was a ps2 game
Post by: EasyCure on June 17, 2006, 08:33:19 AM
what if ubisoft was paid by soney to make red steel and intentionaly have it work like ass so that the Wii would suffer the same 3rd party problem as GCN?
and then they release it as a ps3 game and go "der dual sticks work better, look you can reload but shaking your controller!"
Post by: getter77 on June 17, 2006, 11:32:44 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 17, 2006, 11:43:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Magik 3rd parties don't care about launch day sales since everybody knows that console launches ALWAYS sell out. Its the first year or two that will determine how they treat the system and also, how 3rd party titles sell will contribute to how much support if any they will put onto the system.
If Red Steel fails in terms of sales and gameplay - for the love of god, fix the problems -, the low 3rd party support the GC had might repeat itself on the Wii. Ubisoft is one of the big 3rd party developers in the world and if they screw up and Red Steel turns out like trash or sells like trash, other 3rd party developers who are on the fence on the Wii will shift focus to the 360 or PS3.
Red Steel failing would be a problem, yes, but my concern was that the Wii sells out and sells out FAST. Establishing a large user base for the console will be imperative to its success.
Quote
If you honestly think SSBM was rushed and a bad game, then you have absolutely unrealistically high expectations.
That's like being sad oxygen is so plentiful to help you stay alive.
First, that correlation makes absolutely no sense.
Second, SSBM still pales in comparison to its predecessor (more below).
Quote
I know plenty of people who are much better with one clone than another.
That's because some of the clones were made better than their counterparts so people wouldn't hate them as much...
Quote
Also, I've won against people playing Fox, while I was Bowser. And Bowser isn't even my good character (Marth/Sheik).
Yeah, that's great, but the fact is, SSBM tournaments are typically always won by characters which are ranked in tier 1 and occasionally tier 2.
Everyone I know loved SSB. Everyone, without fail. SSB was flawless because it blended just the right mix of speed, luck and strategy that every game could be a toss up when you had 4 excellent players going against each other.
Melee didn't go over as well. The focus of Melee is speed, period. The fact that the top tier is held by the three fastest characters in the game is evidence enough of this.
Because the game is based around speed, it feels looser than the original, "Like a cheap arcade port." as one of my friends put it and "too much like the speed in MK" as another said.
Beyond that, there was a certain charm to the original, something which made it impossible to not play when two people were in the room with the N64. Melee just lacks that charm.
I know that, aside from the tiers, all I have is subjective claims to back my views, but I used to eat, breathe and sleep SSB. That game wasn't a game, it was an event for me and my circle of friends.
All we wanted from Melee was more characters, more levels and better graphics, that's all. Nothing needed to be changed. Why mess with perfection? They then took the game and made it more like Street Fighter: clones, loose controls, and speed is king.
I don't have any hope for Brawl. I just learned from last time when all I hoped Melee to be was an updated version of the original with more content.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on June 17, 2006, 11:47:12 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 17, 2006, 12:12:23 PM
Plus, some stages had a pretty low ceiling, countered by other stages with junk in the air that prevented people from getting knocked off. The balance was... OFF.
I can see why people are fond of it since it's slower and more patient with all the players waiting for people to land and getting excited over how the events will unfold -- but it hurts the rest of us who wish our characters to physically react as quickly as we generate thoughts.
*I play this series less to compete, but more to cause trouble and express the personality of the characters.
*and hey, i was there for the E3 2001 press conference and saw the AWESOME-O SSBM debut trailer. So I'm biased.
Post by: SixthAngel on June 17, 2006, 02:13:26 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 17, 2006, 03:20:11 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on June 17, 2006, 04:47:37 PM
Post by: Mario on June 17, 2006, 06:00:17 PM
Post by: Strell on June 17, 2006, 06:56:23 PM
Nothing more needs to be said.
Post by: Kairon on June 17, 2006, 06:56:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Melee is only unbalanced if you play with boring wankers who turn off all items and play on Final Destination over and over again.
QFT
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Mario on June 17, 2006, 07:00:17 PM
Also, I can confirm Strells post as fact, and I think the fact we're talking about SSBM now means nothing will go wrong at the Wii launch.
Post by: MarioAllStar on June 18, 2006, 08:45:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Quit 'effing Trolling? It's the truth!
QFT = Quoted for truth
Post by: Kairon on June 18, 2006, 08:48:54 AM
I'm so misunderstood!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on June 18, 2006, 09:16:06 AM
Post by: Magik on June 18, 2006, 12:23:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
2)Games will come when they come. Nintendo is learning how to stagger games better and better...and they are learning everyday how to strength their marketing, and product lines. We notice Nintendo is not afraid to release two titles for a system on the same day anymore. (Tetris and Metroid Prime: Hunters) and Nintendo has commented how they understand launch lineup is important. So games will be available when they are ready, and they will be great.
Wait, what? Nintendo is 'learning' how to stagger games better and better? They should already know how to stagger games in the first place. They have been in the business for over 20+ years.
3)Online will come when it comes. People are worried that Nintendo still isn't taking online seriously, and I don't buy it. Sure there may or may not be any online ready games by launch, but Nintendo has been talking and pushing online content with the Wii since the beginning. I can wait for a great experience.
Its not that people aren't taking Nintendo seriously when it comes to online, its their strategy that is what people are questioning. For their sake, it better not be identical to what the DS is using
5)Only a small amount of virtual console games available at launch. I just really don't see how that will be likely. It isn't going to take long to convert the ROMS into a virtual console format, and we have known about the virtual console for over a year...which means Nintendo has already known about it for even longer. Plus, comments that over 100 Sega Genesis and Turbo Graphics 16 games will be available for the console means that Nintendo literally has 100s and 100s of games to put out on the console. There is no need to worry about releasing too many at once and running out, or anything.
I agree that there shouldn't be a worry about games being available since all they really need is to develop a tool that will automatically convert the ROMS to the format it will be running on with the Wii. The only concern is the pricing structure they will implement.
6)Too many accessories at launch. This could bring up problems. But there is only 2 real accessories you need for the Wii. The classic controllers and the Wiimote. Everything else will be available for niche gaming, if you desire it. (Such as the Wiigun) and most of those will be packed into the game using it.
To many accessories in general will become a problem since its known that accessories don't sell well. Lets hope we don't end up with too many, and hopefully they aren't too pricey
Basically I think these problems are really none issues for the consumer. They will only become a problem if they haven't been addressed much later after launch...and some are just paranoia anyway.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 18, 2006, 05:44:04 PM
I think Nintendo's online policy for the DS is a pretty descent strategy. Using Wifi it has allowed the DS the ability to connect anywhere there is a connection, and Nintendo partnered with companies to advertise certain Wifi hotspots for Nintendo. Second, Nintendo has worked on a means to implement a safe environment for kids to play online. Online games with random people have features held back to protect people from dealing with jerks and just have the ability to play online. While it also protects children from perverts, or just connect with immature adults that can ruin the play experience. Then with friend codes you can access all the features with your friends, that you know shouldn't bail on you in the middle of a game and such.
The friend's system definately needs some evolving, yet as it stands its shaping up as a great system. If Nintendo evolves this network for the Wii to allow one friend network for all games, then we will have a very nice system.
And all I meant about staggering games, is Nintendo is releasing more games more frequently, without releasing too many at single times, or having droughts for releasing too many games too soon.
Post by: Magik on June 18, 2006, 06:36:37 PM
I understand they want to create a safe environment and try to filter out all the jerks, I'm all for it, but the very restrictive nature of the system has created holes that allow those problems they are trying to avoid to occur. I'm talking about sites created solely to trade friend codes.
Lets take DSPlay for example; one of the more popular Friend Code sites on the net. The way DSPlay runs is exactly like how any normal service runs. It has chat where people can interact but this time, Nintendo has no control over that environment so the protection they are trying to achieve with the current system is gone.
My hope for the Wii at least, is for Nintendo to rid us of the multiple friend code system. Having individual friend codes for each game is just tedious and annoying since for most people, they end up having the same friends anyways. And its not fun to enter dozens if not hundreds of friend codes. They can achieve the same thing with only one friend code bound to the system.
As for release schedules, I hope Nintendo has learned to position their game releases better and avoid situations similar to what happened with Metroid Prime 2 and releasing it AFTER Halo 2.
Post by: Kairon on June 18, 2006, 08:36:58 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 19, 2006, 06:27:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Personally I feel that if they slow the game down just a tad, and then give bigger characters more weight against smash attacks, and an ability to absorb and attack and attack through an attack then it would be balanced.
This is all I think would be necessary as well. The only real balance they lack is not making speed the massive advantage that it is. I always thought that heavy characters should be able to completely shrug off attacks thrown by characters which are too weak to interrupt them: the metal cap allows you to do this already.
They've already hinted at slowing Brawl down and if there's to be online play the game will DEFINITELY be slower.
Sorry, but the twitch gameplay of SSBM will not work online where even the slightest bit of latency can mean the difference between a move landing successfully and death.
Post by: vudu on June 19, 2006, 10:21:54 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 19, 2006, 10:41:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
You people have ruined every single Smash Bros thread on this board. Do you have to ruin the Pessimism thread, too?
I have to make my quota.
Actually, 90% of the alleged "pessimism" in this thread is false: I don't even begin to believe that Nintendo WON'T have TP ready for launch. It would suck, yes, but I'm not actually pessimistic about it because I don't believe it'll happen.
I AM, however, pessimistic about Brawl because, IMHO, Melee wasn't an improvement but rather a step down from SSB. THAT pessimism is 100% genuine and belongs in this thread.
On the subject, I'm also seriously pessimistic about Nintendo's online system. WiiConnect24 already sounds disappointing in the fact that it still requires friend codes. Someone said it best: "Why isn't there a grown-up mode where we can meet and talk to whoever the hell we want?"
I'm glad they've been experimenting with the DS (especially with voice chat), but I'm hoping they don't botch the online facet of the Wii by dumbing it down and making it far too kid-friendly.
Any game with an M-rating should be connectible with voice chat without friend codes. If you're over 18, you're old enough to not be lured to a pedophile's home and if you're NOT over 18, you shouldn't be playing the damn game anyway.
Post by: Ceric on June 19, 2006, 06:08:23 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 19, 2006, 07:05:28 PM
Bowser getting metal should slow him down to be pretty slow in movement (But not in attack) Yet he literally would be an unmovable beast, that can shrug all damage and dish out much, much pain.
On the other hand, Peach and Fox should become closer to how regular Boswer reacts when they get metal or a tad less.
I always thought Bowser shouldn't of had a 3rd jump. That he should have just been an immovable beast, until damage levels were near 200%. Bowser should have evoked real Smash Brothers fear, yet, take a skilled player to use him effective, and that just wasn't the case.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 20, 2006, 07:37:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang I always thought Bowser shouldn't of had a 3rd jump. That he should have just been an immovable beast, until damage levels were near 200%. Bowser should have evoked real Smash Brothers fear, yet, take a skilled player to use him effective, and that just wasn't the case.
See, this is where I'm pessimistic on the subject.
They haven't done heavy characters properly for two games and I don't expect that they'll get it right the 3rd time either. Ironically, heavy characters are the easiest to just run right into their face and attack them. It should be the EXACT opposite: they should need to be attacked indirectly in order to have any degree of success. Charging straight at Bowser in any Mario game is generally suicide, yet it's the most legitimate tactic in SSBM.
Is no one else is concerned about WiiConnect?
Post by: Crimm on June 20, 2006, 07:47:15 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 20, 2006, 07:53:37 AM
It is the image of the name that is important. That it looks different, unique, and appealing at sight. That visually people recognize it and KNOW what it is. From there you can teach the public how to pronounce it. You can teach the public much about the product. But that first impression is usually a visual one.
I personally think Wii visually is a cool word, and cool name. People only complain about it when they hear the pronoucation. !!M I believe even looks more unique and cool too.
Nintendo's imagining is doing a great job.
Post by: Fierce_LiNk on June 20, 2006, 01:22:35 PM
I was also trying to think about what the name meant. Wii? Is it an abbreviation? How do you pronounce it? Is it We or Why? Does it matter how you pronounce it? Stuff like that. It had a shroud of mystery around it.
What worries me about the launch is that Nintendo won't advertise it, or if the 360 or PS3 take away too much attention away from the launch. Nintendo need to get off to a good start.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 20, 2006, 01:38:30 PM
As it stands advertising the Wii and getting the name out is going to be one of the most difficult advertising campaigns ever. Personally, I hope Nintendo doesn't do this in house, but hires an advertising firm to do a huge imaging campaign correctly.
Post by: Fierce_LiNk on June 20, 2006, 01:40:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Fierce: That is my only real concern to. See, Nintendo is set up to be in a great position come launch. But, marketing the Wii is going to be difficult. In a way it is going to take a different approach completely trying to reach nongamers and gamers. And I believe the system shouldn't be advertised alone buy advertised with games, or with sets of games appealing to different broad ranges of people.
As it stands advertising the Wii and getting the name out is going to be one of the most difficult advertising campaigns ever. Personally, I hope Nintendo doesn't do this in house, but hires an advertising firm to do a huge imaging campaign correctly.
It would be a good idea to adverise with a different firm, i agree. I personally like the Honda adverts on tv. If Nintendo could form a partnership with the likes of Honda and Coca Cola, that would help a great deal with advertising.
Post by: Ceric on June 20, 2006, 01:45:44 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 20, 2006, 01:46:10 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 20, 2006, 01:47:11 PM
Remember it isn't Nintendo Wii.
But just Wii.
Post by: Fierce_LiNk on June 20, 2006, 01:55:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
But do Honda or Coca Cola do their own advertising, or do they freelance? It is important to actually work with a brand firm when creating a new brand. They understand how to build and create hype and interest in something new.
Remember it isn't Nintendo Wii.
But just Wii.
Good point. I think Honda and Coca Cola do theirs 'in-house'.
Anyway, lets see what they come up with. The DS ads are half decent so maybe they've learnt?
Post by: Ceric on June 20, 2006, 02:13:40 PM
Post by: Donutt007 on June 20, 2006, 02:46:56 PM
The other thing that does worry me is in store Kiosks. This is something they absolutly have to get right if they want people to follow the whole "Playing = Believing" thing. They have to find a way to secure the product, but still have it function almost wirelessly. Although I didn't see how they were set-up at E3, so I'm sure they got it all figured out.
Post by: Ceric on June 20, 2006, 03:58:27 PM
Oh, Kiosk Security. Meet Bruno. He is my Customer Satisfaction and Marketting Researcher. Don't mind the near ripping shirt.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 20, 2006, 06:35:18 PM
They used claymation and other animation and that jingle before the commercial breaks.
Post by: Ceric on June 20, 2006, 06:43:31 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 20, 2006, 06:57:53 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: EasyCure on June 22, 2006, 03:22:53 PM
if Wii did reach all non-gamers, but those non-gamers becamse gamers and were pursuaded by sony and ms fanboys to hate on nintendo cuz its the thing that gamers do, so they all buy a ps360
Post by: please let me in, please on June 22, 2006, 03:34:35 PM
THAT WOULD SUCK FOR NINTENDO.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 22, 2006, 10:03:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: please let me in, please
If the Wii is a huge success, and more and more gamers come out of it, then Microsoft and Sony ( if Sony is still alive by then), might try to copy this idea and make it better for their next system, combining the best available graphics with amazing gameplay.
THAT WOULD SUCK FOR NINTENDO.
Not really if Nintendo can regain a large market share this time, they will have more to play with (since it has rejuvenated the Nintendo brand). Now if the Wii had GC like success, it could be a problem, but I think if it sells to the masses, then Nintendo's next system will be able to compete on a pretty even level with the new MS or Sony system. It will come down to games, and if Nintendo can get third party support for the Wii that will carry over to their next system.
Post by: Kairon on June 24, 2006, 10:51:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
5 . Lackluster online support at launch
We already know that SSBB isn't going to make it at launch (it's landing 2007 sometime), and we already know that Metroid 3 won't be online either. Pangya may not be online either. But what if CoD isn't online, or Red Steel, or Need For Speed Carbon! We know almost nothing about specific Wii games going online, all we have is speculation and vague promises. Maybe Nintendo hasn't even gotten everything worked out yet, maybe it'll be like the DS: online sometime later?
...
10. Third Party ports don't make good use of Wiimote functionality
Perhaps less ambitious third party releases like Call of Duty 3 and Need For Speed: Carbon that are intended for multi-system release won't have enough care put into their porting to make good use of the Wiimote and thus feel clunky, un-fun and inferior. Luckily, EA has avoided this possibility by devoting one entire studio just for Wii ports, so Madden is safe.
BEHOLD! Pessimism such as this yields results!
Carbon not online or motion-sensitive?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: nemo_83 on June 24, 2006, 03:43:37 PM
Zelda's controls need to be fixed. Red Steel's controls have been confirmed to have been "fixed."
The only way they can justify charging several dollars for ROMs is if the Wii allows you to use special simple game editing tools with old games (the experience doesn't have to end).
Post by: Kairon on June 24, 2006, 04:39:59 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Magik on June 24, 2006, 06:19:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
5 . Lackluster online support at launch
We already know that SSBB isn't going to make it at launch (it's landing 2007 sometime), and we already know that Metroid 3 won't be online either. Pangya may not be online either. But what if CoD isn't online, or Red Steel, or Need For Speed Carbon! We know almost nothing about specific Wii games going online, all we have is speculation and vague promises. Maybe Nintendo hasn't even gotten everything worked out yet, maybe it'll be like the DS: online sometime later?
Its starting too look more and more like the Wii will release with a poor online service in terms of launch games and even possibly future games.
Metroid and Pangya is confirmed to have no online support at the moment.
Zelda will obviously have no online support.
We have no info on Red Steel.
Hopefully this changes as we get near the launch.
Its not exactly the best way to start a new console with very little online support.
Post by: AnyoneEB on June 24, 2006, 07:48:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
The only way they can justify charging several dollars for ROMs is if the Wii allows you to use special simple game editing tools with old games (the experience doesn't have to end).
Uh, there's plenty of ROM hacking tools around. It would be cool, but it is already quite possible.
Post by: Ceric on June 24, 2006, 08:22:56 PM
Post by: couchmonkey on June 26, 2006, 05:46:54 AM
Online will come and it will be good enough, but I'm sure Xbox 360 is going to offer a better experience - the problem is you have to pay for it. Overall I don't think this will hurt Nintendo too much anyway, because online has relatively little to do with what makes Wii an exciting system. Probably a few hardcore gamers will ignore Wii or buy Wii and another console with better online, but I don't see it hurting Nintendo much.
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2006, 07:13:24 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on June 26, 2006, 08:33:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
The biggest eph-ups they could make are charging too much for a console whose graphics say $149 at the most
I'm sorry, but that is one of the most superficial statements I have ever seen posted here.
Do 360 graphics say $400 at most? No
Do PS3 graphics say $600 at most? No
Heck, do PS2 graphics say $129? No!
If the games are good enough, the price is worth it, period.
Post by: Requiem on June 26, 2006, 08:46:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MagikQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
5 . Lackluster online support at launch
We already know that SSBB isn't going to make it at launch (it's landing 2007 sometime), and we already know that Metroid 3 won't be online either. Pangya may not be online either. But what if CoD isn't online, or Red Steel, or Need For Speed Carbon! We know almost nothing about specific Wii games going online, all we have is speculation and vague promises. Maybe Nintendo hasn't even gotten everything worked out yet, maybe it'll be like the DS: online sometime later?
Its starting too look more and more like the Wii will release with a poor online service in terms of launch games and even possibly future games.
Metroid and Pangya is confirmed to have no online support at the moment.
Zelda will obviously have no online support.
We have no info on Red Steel.
Hopefully this changes as we get near the launch.
Its not exactly the best way to start a new console with very little online support.
Actually it was confirmed that Zelda would have some form of online support.
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2006, 07:14:30 PM
Seriously enough, besides Four Swords, what are you going to do with Zelda that could involve online. Maybe new dungeons. Maybe upgrades. But beyond those Ideas I don't really know what.
Post by: nemo_83 on June 27, 2006, 01:06:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuyQuote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
The biggest eph-ups they could make are charging too much for a console whose graphics say $149 at the most
I'm sorry, but that is one of the most superficial statements I have ever seen posted here.
Do 360 graphics say $400 at most? No
Do PS3 graphics say $600 at most? No
Heck, do PS2 graphics say $129? No!
If the games are good enough, the price is worth it, period.
You're right, PS3 costs three hundred dollars too much (bluray + Ken being insane). 360's launch graphics were absent but at least PDZ worked online well enough (and Halo 2 looked new all over in HD). Wii though is looking to have launch graphics only fifty percent better than GameCube which you could probably pick up used for dirt cheap now. So if you are paying two hundred and fifty dollars for a Wii, you are really paying a hundred and fifty dollars for that remote.
Nintendo's logic is we fans will be sated with Zelda, Metroid, and Mario for two years...you see, we know nothing as far as the future of the system goes (where with the GameCube we had the launch games, but beyond that we knew there would be a Mario, Zelda, and Metroid coming). We don't know jack about what games are coming this time next year for Wii; I don't have a clue as to what to expect. It can't be something established because they have all their heavy hitters set to go to bat in the first six months of the console. Star Fox and SSB are not going to fill the void. There must be something big and original, or perhaps third parties will deliver to Nintendo fans for the first time in ten years.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 27, 2006, 01:42:28 AM
Quote
You're right, PS3 costs three hundred dollars too much (bluray + Ken being insane). 360's launch graphics were absent but at least PDZ worked online well enough (and Halo 2 looked new all over in HD). Wii though is looking to have launch graphics only fifty percent betterthan GameCube which you could probably pick up used for dirt cheap now. So if you are paying two hundred and fifty dollars for a Wii, you are really paying a hundred and fifty dollars for that remote.
Sounds an awful lot like the Xbox 360 at launch (which you also mentioned). I'm not sure but wouldn't this argument also mean that Xbox 360 wasn't worth 400$ at launch because its graphics were barely above Xbox? Also commenting on launch price, without knowing the full details of not only the hardware but what will be packed in is also quite presumptuous. There is no way we can judge the worth of the console until we not only get a price but what that price gets you!
On your other comments about future games, I think this is a silly concern, Nintendo has shown with DS that they are able to come out with great games long after its launch. Heck if you want to get down to it, you can make this comment about any console out there, since it is not known what the future holds when it comes to games. It is almost like Nintendo doomed no matter what they do. Ether they release a bunch of quality games at launch, and people scream about the future, or if they decided to have a mediocre launch than they would also be doing something stupid (By the logic of some the pessimists here).
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 27, 2006, 06:28:41 AM
I'll point out the thread a year (or two) ago that showed a screenshot of an upcoming Seiken Densetsu/Mana game for PS2, and you got excited over a screenshot showing a branch with leaves on it (obviously in a cutscene) and you questioned whether GameCube was capable of rendering individual leaves like the PS2 was 'capable' of.
Well, GameCube is MORE than capable, as shown in Metroid Primes, Final Fantasy: CC, and Pikmins (during GAMEPLAY). Plenty of leaves there -- Which tells me you've never played these games, and pretend to own a GameCube.
Good day.
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2006, 02:53:29 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on June 27, 2006, 03:04:57 PM
That cutscene didn't look bad. In fact it looked better than some Wii games shown at E3 though I will concede Tecmo's golf isn't exactly a huge budgetted game deep in development so I'm not going there.
I can say for certain that no Wii game has shown the lighting effects of Half Life 2 or the Doom engine, while Quake 4 on 360 at launch looked pretty snazzy. The reason we havn't seen 360's muscle yet according to developers is because the system is difficult to develop for, not every game can look like Gears of War (cores), but there will be those games that look that good.
Wii on the other hand is easy to max out and according to developers Wii's graphics are not going to improve much beyond what we have seen (there maybe some more RAM but I am still getting the impression not to believe rumors about PPUs with dedicated RAM). Nintendo always polishes their games but the Wii seems to have aparent limits as far as raw effects go and shading. MP3's lighting isn't even as dramatic as Doom3's on Xbox1.
And as far as this time next year goes for Wii software; I would want nothing more than a plethora of original titles, especially a new cooperative character driven IP from Miyamoto or someone in his circle. I just don't know if I trust Nintendo to walk the walk to do something new and innovative. I will bite the rumor of a bunny hopping game in development that you use two remotes to hop along and platform (remember the bunnies in Galaxy and the new Rayman).
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2006, 03:49:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
I will bite the rumor of a bunny hopping game in development that you use two remotes to hop along and platform (remember the bunnies in Galaxy and the new Rayman).
OMG! JUMPING FLASH! HALLELUJAH!
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: IceCold on June 27, 2006, 09:29:27 PM
QuoteBefore Infernal says it... BIG DAMN TRUCKS!
There must be something big and original
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2006, 07:11:55 AM
Excite Truck (new franchise kinda)
Wii Sports (Brand new franchise)
Wario Ware Smooth moves (existing franchise, but vastly different than any other game out now.)
And for exclusive 3rd party support:
Unique Madden Wii
Exclusive Red Steel
Exclusive Monkey Ball
Games that will appeal to both gamers and nongamers:
Wii Sports
Wario Ware Smoth Moves
Super Monkey Ball
Excite Truck
I laugh at anyone that says Nintendo's Wii system needs unique new original IPs and such...because with the new control system literally everything is a brand new experience. Everything will feel fresh and different.
Also just to note at launch games that appeal to traditional gamers are:
Madden Wii
Metroid Prime: Corruption
Legend of Zelda TP
I think we can official take lackluster launch lineup off this pessimism list. Because as of right now, Wii has more variety than any other system at launch day. Period.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 28, 2006, 07:53:25 AM
We've seen basically everything else that they've offered thus far. The one thing we haven't seen is how they intend to make good on their online plans. I hope that, within the next few months, we'll at least see some official mock-ups of the online interface so we have some idea of what they're working with.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2006, 08:44:54 AM
Awhile back they had the questionare about DS Wifi connection. They learned alot about features people desired, and frustrations people had with friends codes, and other such elements of the Nintendo Wifi structure.
To Nintendo the friend's code equals perfect protection for them. You determine with whom you converse and play with on an individual game level. So Mario Kart it is ok, the have everyone on your friend list...but with voice chat on Metroid Hunters, it may be more dangerous for kids.
Nintendo doesn't want to have their online structure be offensive to anyway...they want to be above all reproach.
This makes it very difficult to determine and design the best online structure for the Wii. I definately do not envy Nintendo trying to figure this one out.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 28, 2006, 09:46:33 AM
They just want to be able to connect to a game and talk to the people in it without the hassle of codes.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 28, 2006, 10:31:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Must be something original during launch of the Wii...well let me see.
Excite Truck (new franchise kinda)
Wii Sports (Brand new franchise)
Wario Ware Smooth moves (existing franchise, but vastly different than any other game out now.)
And for exclusive 3rd party support:
Unique Madden Wii
Exclusive Red Steel
Exclusive Monkey Ball
Games that will appeal to both gamers and nongamers:
Wii Sports
Wario Ware Smoth Moves
Super Monkey Ball
Excite Truck
I laugh at anyone that says Nintendo's Wii system needs unique new original IPs and such...because with the new control system literally everything is a brand new experience. Everything will feel fresh and different.
Also just to note at launch games that appeal to traditional gamers are:
Madden Wii
Metroid Prime: Corruption
Legend of Zelda TP
I think we can official take lackluster launch lineup off this pessimism list. Because as of right now, Wii has more variety than any other system at launch day. Period.
Hey Spak, you forgot Project Hammer as well. The game looks like it could be alot of fun if they refine it a bit. You can't forget that it is also a new franchise too!
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2006, 10:45:51 AM
I actually really like the idea of that game...and hope that it is a fun experience. I would love to see them add a traditional CO-OP mode to that game.
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2006, 11:16:49 AM
Post by: IceCold on June 28, 2006, 11:17:25 AM
Post by: nemo_83 on June 28, 2006, 01:00:27 PM
I'm not expecting Kid Ikarus to come out and truthfully, I don't want it to if they are going to make a kid game.
Red Steel isn't even a Mature rated game; will Nintendo have any Mature rated games? Are they spewing the same old garbage about making games for everyone and then making Everyone games?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 28, 2006, 01:43:25 PM
The highest in the past has been 3. This time around, it's Red Steel, TP, MP3, Wario Ware, and I'll see what else they're offering.
I hope they have different colored Wiimotes because I use different colors so players can quickly and easily see which controller is which player. This is absolutely ideal for swaping games like SSB.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 28, 2006, 03:24:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Red Steel is the only big original game that I am anticipating playing and that is at launch or near it. Beyond this year we don't know what to expect from Wii. With 360 there were several games in development like Halo 3, Gears of War, Prey, Oblivion, and Too Human to look forward to (though it seems the system is going through a serious drought right now). With Wii, we don't know what is coming out next year and I don't think Nintendo will talk about it until next E3, the bastards. And don't expect to see footage of the next Mario, Zelda, or Metroid for at least two years after launch.
I'm not expecting Kid Ikarus to come out and truthfully, I don't want it to if they are going to make a kid game.
Red Steel isn't even a Mature rated game; will Nintendo have any Mature rated games? Are they spewing the same old garbage about making games for everyone and then making Everyone games?
Too bad that most of Xbox 360's "big" games will also be for PC, which is one reason why I sold my 360. I hope Nintendo has a mixture between "mature" games and everyone games. I'm getting quite tired of every next generation being a doom and gloom game, it isn't a mature mentality but a lazy attitude when it comes to being creative. Also with 360 we really don't know what games are coming out next year besides Halo 3, correct me if I'm wrong but games like ToO Human and Gears of War will be out this year. With Wii we know that Smash Brothers Brawl will be out next year too. So if anything both systems should have you wondering.
Post by: Kairon on June 28, 2006, 04:23:56 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 28, 2006, 07:45:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Too Human? This year?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
That is how I understood it, it still is set to release this year on Ebgames and such. Then again it could be delayed considering it did not get a warm welcome at E3.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 28, 2006, 09:07:12 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 28, 2006, 11:14:19 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2006, 04:54:32 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 29, 2006, 06:17:20 AM
No more aweful button combos that you forget after a year.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 29, 2006, 08:27:20 AM
Yeah...and aren't most of those just more variety in the FPS category...or futuristic 3rd person shooter.
That is what I want to play. Our 4 big games this holiday are pratically all the same.
WHOOHOO!!!!
YES!!!
I too am looking into the Wii's future. Mario Tennis and Mario Golf will rock. And I can only begin to imagine the greatness of Mario Kart Wii after the incredibly amazing Mario Kart DS.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 29, 2006, 11:21:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Halo 3, Gears of War, Prey, and Too Human
Yeah...and aren't most of those just more variety in the FPS category...or futuristic 3rd person shooter.
That is what I want to play. Our 4 big games this holiday are pratically all the same.
WHOOHOO!!!!
YES!!!
I too am looking into the Wii's future. Mario Tennis and Mario Golf will rock. And I can only begin to imagine the greatness of Mario Kart Wii after the incredibly amazing Mario Kart DS.
Lol, Too Human is more of an 3rd person action game (a poorly received one at that from E3), but I agree . I do get your point, this is one thing that has been bothering me about MS or Sony, almost every big game is some futuristic, dark, realistic looking game. It gets quite tedious after awhile, and that is why I enjoy more creative adventures like Zelda or Mario, because there is so much more that can be done in the way of visuals, level design and enemies.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 30, 2006, 07:43:36 AM
In my collection I only own like 2 FPS. 2 Fighters. A couple of RPGs. A Couple of Platformers. A Couple of Puzzle games. And finally a few Sports Games.
When I look at the mainstream games for Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 I see more of the same period.
Realistic War Simulators (First Person and Third) How many of those do you really need?
Free Roaming Crime playground games. (Grand Theft Auto Types) This is one of the most overrated genres ever. Yes, I can do anything I want from the beginning of the game. But why does it all relate to do the samething over and over again?
Shooters: Be it First Person, or Third Person. They all have the same atmosphere, similar stories and directions, and they just don't interest me anymore. All I need is one single great multiplayer First Person experience and I am happy....not 100.
Sports Games: Again, I just need one of each sport I am interested in...and that isn't very many.
There is nothing new.
At least with Nintendo. Their franchises are pretty varied. Mario is nothing like Zelda. Zelda is nothing like Metroid. Metroid is nothing like Star Fox.
There is alot of variety in not just games, but in presenation and personality with the system. The same can't be said about other systems. (Jaks and Daks is a great example. Its a platformer/shooter, but its just as dark and moody as everything else out there.)
For my personal tastes, Microsoft and Sony has nothing for me. Period.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 30, 2006, 07:56:34 AM
I liked the looks of Gears of War and Prey. I can buy Prey for my PC (mac laptop running boot camp *cough*) and I very likely will.
Post by: Ceric on June 30, 2006, 08:04:41 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on June 30, 2006, 08:27:03 AM
What's the difference between that and what Nintendo does? Everything by Sony is dark and moody and everything by Nintendo to super fun happy candy land. Now you'll probably say that regarding Nintendo that's not true. Well it probably isn't with Sony either.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 30, 2006, 09:46:09 AM
Zelda is not fun and happy. Its a nice medium with sometimes very dark elements.
Metroid is dark with a scifi technoatmosphere. Not Super fun happy.
Star Fox isn't Super Fun Happy.
Advanced Wars is cute characters, but it is just typical anime.
So Umm...only the Mario universe games are really super fun happy.
Post by: JonLeung on June 30, 2006, 10:06:31 AM
Though I guess the major Kirby villains are pretty creepy, but no one who's insecure would play that far and it's not like the villain determines the moods of those games.
It's like no one calls Halo "childish" because its villain is a happy, egotistical, singing bally robot.
With Zelda and Metroid for the Wii launch (or at least within the launch window in a less ideal scenario) people will be slower to call the Wii "Super Happy". First impressions apparently mean a lot.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 30, 2006, 10:41:29 AM
Actually Kirby looks bright, but again themes and how you play is vastly different as well.
I am not just talking about graphics but overall content of the games.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 30, 2006, 11:08:05 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 30, 2006, 10:45:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"There is alot of variety in not just games, but in presenation and personality with the system. The same can't be said about other systems. (Jaks and Daks is a great example. Its a platformer/shooter, but its just as dark and moody as everything else out there.)"
What's the difference between that and what Nintendo does? Everything by Sony is dark and moody and everything by Nintendo to super fun happy candy land. Now you'll probably say that regarding Nintendo that's not true. Well it probably isn't with Sony either.
Let's say for arguments sake that Nintendo is mostly fun and cuddly, well considering that 80% of the games out there have the same theme, and similar design, then that makes Nintendo the unique one
.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 01, 2006, 04:39:25 AM
Besides that. (Though you are completely right. Nintendo completely stands out with their now "unique" game design.)
I pointed out how flawed that logic is.
The number of super fun cute games for Nintendo is like 5
Mario Sports series
Mario Games
Kirby Games
Quirky Designed oddball games:
Wario Ware
Animal Crossing
EarthBound
Generic Anime Design:
Advanced Wars
Fire Emblem
Fantasy Theme/slightly mature theme:
The Legend of Zelda
Dark Sci-Fi Theme and atmosphere:
Metroid Series
F-Zero
Super Happy Fun RPG:
Pokemon
Comedy Series:
Super Mario RPGs (Paper Mario/Super Saga stuff)
Nintendo's franchises are full of variety in style, atmosphere, gameplay, ect.
I am not saying there isn't variety in the other systems. Their definately is. However, that variety usually isn't filled by the systems big hitters. Their AAA games that will sell systems, instead that variety is filled by 3rd parties...usually making games for a younger audience that aren't great.
Post by: Ceric on July 01, 2006, 08:05:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
It's like no one calls Halo "childish" because its villain is a happy, egotistical, singing bally robot.
Is that true??? I want to see a picture of that. Or better yet a video.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 01, 2006, 08:32:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
You can afford a MacLaptop and Windows... I don't like you very much right now...
I've been saving money since I was 12 when I started work answering tech support calls.
Post by: Ceric on July 01, 2006, 08:42:38 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 01, 2006, 12:12:21 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2006, 02:21:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
You can afford a MacLaptop and Windows... I don't like you very much right now...
I've been saving money since I was 12 when I started work answering tech support calls.
You worked the Tech Support Help line at 12 YEARS OLD?!?!?! you...have my respect sir..
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: couchmonkey on July 05, 2006, 07:36:58 AM
All three of the consoles have their "niche" in terms of game style, and that will always be the case, because people love to categorize stuff. Sony is categorized as dark, even though PS2 has probably the highest selection of brightly-coloured anime games. Nintendo is categorized as I LOVE HALO 2 (for kids*), even though it has Metroid and sometimes Zelda. Microsoft is categorized as boobs and guns, even though it has...oh right, that's all it has.
*that's right, I was pwned by the filter
Post by: KDR_11k on July 05, 2006, 08:36:44 AM
It's their godawful shading system. The PS2's lighting has a very distinct look.
Post by: SixthAngel on July 10, 2006, 07:47:03 PM
Did anyone here have a Sega Genesis and buy the Menacer gun?
I did and it is basically a sensorbar and a gun. You calibrate it once and you are done, shooting at the screen worked fine with no problems. This is back in the genesis/snes days, I think Nintendo can have this even substantially improved for the Wii.
Post by: Kairon on July 10, 2006, 08:16:45 PM
I think it's safe to say that the Menacer and Superscope were actual lightguns, and not at all like the Wiimote pointer.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Zach on July 10, 2006, 08:57:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: JonLeung
It's like no one calls Halo "childish" because its villain is a happy, egotistical, singing bally robot.
Is that true??? I want to see a picture of that. Or better yet a video.
WARNING: SPOILERS
I think this is what you were talking about
video
Post by: Kairon on July 10, 2006, 09:10:21 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 10, 2006, 09:21:41 PM
QuoteAfter watching the video, I think it becomes clear that he is indeed a villian.
Originally posted by: Kairon
I thought that guilty spark wasn't a villain...just a side character?
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: Kairon on July 10, 2006, 09:29:54 PM
LOL. I mean, seriously. He isn't remotely villainous. He ends up not on your team, but that's not enough to make him a villain.
The only force I can contemplate calling villainous in Halo are the Covenant, especially since the FLUDD are so uninteresting.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 10, 2006, 10:08:56 PM
) he decides he is going to take it by force and even has two bot focus guns on you. How does that not spell villainous<sp>?should I spoiler this? I've never played Halo, I've only just watched the video linked backed a few post ago.
Post by: Kairon on July 10, 2006, 10:13:20 PM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: SixthAngel on July 11, 2006, 05:57:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Was that a sensorbar or an IR receiver? The Superscope also had an IR object you had to plug into a controller slot, you calibrated it once in a blue moon, and shot away. This item was an IR receiver: the superscope merely transfered data to the IR receiver, but it operated exactly like a light gun.
I think it's safe to say that the Menacer and Superscope were actual lightguns, and not at all like the Wiimote pointer.
I can't say anthing about the Superscope because I didn't have a snes but the Menacer had the option of putting a target on screen that showed where you were pointing constantly. It was pretty much a pointer.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 11, 2006, 06:05:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
You worked the Tech Support Help line at 12 YEARS OLD?!?!?! you...have my respect sir..
Yeah, that's how it worked out. My father sold computers for a living via driving them to people's houses in a 2-3 state radius or so and people kept calling looking for tech support. My mother had no clue about computers but I had played with the one we had for quite a while. One day she handed the phone to me mid-call and I've been an intrinsic part of the family biz ever since.
That's what turned me into the bitter, shriveled, empty shell of a human being that I am today.
On the subject, spark is an AI with a predetermined programmed purpose to which he will strive without care or worry of who he must kill in the process.
Isn't that the quint essential definition of a villain?
Post by: Ceric on July 11, 2006, 06:41:13 AM
Actually all good villains must believe that they are, in fact, good themselves and are striving for the greater good. (Which could be argued in this case.) It the whole ends justify the means things. In the robots mind wiping out all the sentient life and destroying the Fludd would releif the threat from him and allow for the ushering of new sentient life minus the Fludd. With a long life-span and vast knowledge that would seem like a good idea.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 11, 2006, 07:27:38 AM
QuoteCan you help me fix my computer?
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
You worked the Tech Support Help line at 12 YEARS OLD?!?!?! you...have my respect sir..
Yeah, that's how it worked out. My father sold computers for a living via driving them to people's houses in a 2-3 state radius or so and people kept calling looking for tech support. My mother had no clue about computers but I had played with the one we had for quite a while. One day she handed the phone to me mid-call and I've been an intrinsic part of the family biz ever since.
p.s. I'm serious it keeps freezing on me for no reason.
Post by: Ceric on July 11, 2006, 07:31:35 AM
Post by: JonLeung on July 11, 2006, 10:10:01 AM
It has childish bad guys, a silly villain, and somehow it's for TEH MATOOR PEEPLES. Like, WTF?
On another note, now that there's talk of an Eternal Darkness trilogy, I would like to see the rest of that saga on the Wii instead of, say, the Xbox 360.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 11, 2006, 11:04:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1 Can you help me fix my computer?
p.s. I'm serious it keeps freezing on me for no reason.
If we're talking XP, first, ensure that your HD is completely defragmented, as a heavily fragmented drive can likewise cause crashing and other problems. Go to Start > All Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Disk Defragmenter and run the analysis to see how bad it is and defragment as needed.
If it still freezes on you, head for the control panels and into the "Add/Remove Programs".
I'd start by going down the list and "trimming the fat" via removing any applications and/or items which you don't use anymore. These might be running background tasks which launch at startup and could be conflicting with one of the newer applications you've installed (also good to free up HD space).
Next, download an anti-virus demo and scan your HD at least once if you don't already have some form of anti-virus running.
Also, make sure you don't have multiple anti-virus/spyware prevention utilities running at the same time as these can also cause conflicts.
Beyond that, you wander into the terrain of service packs and I'm afraid I don't remain up to date on those. I'd do a search on google about a service pack before installing it because sometimes MS will release a pack which is likely to harm your computer.
If none of that works, get a Mac.
Quote
On another note, now that there's talk of an Eternal Darkness trilogy, I would like to see the rest of that saga on the Wii instead of, say, the Xbox 360.
I'm still scratching my head as to what the hell happened with Silicon Knights. There was a quote from Dennis Dyack saying "We'll always be a Nintendo developer.", then SK jumped ship and began developing for the 360, and right on the cusp of the Wii's announcement as well (and I'm sure SK would have known in advance what Nintendo was up to), a platform which looks very much like it will finally establish Nintendo as a viable choice for mature franchises due to its mass-market appeal and innovative controller which is ideal for FPSes and many other older-oriented genres (sports, racing, etc.).
Nintendo CLEARLY has not given up on developing for the older audience, what with bringing out some in-house franchises which are geared to older audiences (Day of Disaster, HAMMER, TP, MP3, to name a few) as well as helping 3rd parties bring mature franchises to the Wii (Red Steel and I'm sure there are others we don't even know about yet).
So the theory of "Nintendo let SK go so they could do better sales-wise" just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.
Also, I thought Nintendo owned the ED franchise and its characters but I could be wrong...
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2006, 11:33:17 AM
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: SixthAngel on July 11, 2006, 12:36:09 PM
What about the Menacer comment? Nintendo is improving and combining many existing technologies so problems should be slim. I understand this is a Nintendo forum but someone else had to have had a genesis? Maybe I'll make a thread in the other systems forum to help out people with Sega on the virtual console.
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2006, 12:51:10 PM
The constant cursor was merely the lightgun taking constant snapshots of the pixels it sees and placing those on the screen.
Thus, the menacer operates nothing like the Wiimote, and that so-called "sensor bar" was actually an IR receiver to make the gun wireless, much like the Superscope's "sensor bar" was also an IR receiver.
~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Post by: SixthAngel on July 11, 2006, 02:48:32 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 11, 2006, 05:53:18 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 11, 2006, 09:57:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
It was proven that Wikipedia is only slightly less accurated (we're talking within the error-bounds) then its Encyclopediac competitators.
I'm not surprised considering wikipedia is pretty open to change, so it is bound to get the right information after so many have looked it over.
Post by: Ceric on July 12, 2006, 05:31:11 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on July 12, 2006, 11:17:02 AM
I think that's actually pretty good compared to Sony's gamble, which is that people will buy it for Blu-ray and hopefully buy some games. Sony is actually turning away hardcore gamers. Casual gamers, we have yet to see how they'll react.
Post by: Urkel on July 12, 2006, 05:40:17 PM
Early in the DS's life, almost every game shown was either met with comments like "It looks like a GBA game", or "The DS's 3d capabilities really suck". It was seen as a huge Achille's heel at the time. Let's face it, the PSP is essentially a whole generation ahead of the DS in terms of horsepower.
But these days graphics aren't even brought up anymore in the DS vs. PSP debate. Now that people have gotten over the novelty of playing portable games with PS2 quality graphics (they got over that a long time ago) it's all about which is the better gaming system.
Once everybody gets over the novelty of next-gen graphics, it wont be as big of an issue for Wii.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2006, 08:08:50 AM
Nintendo's achilles heel is whether or not 3rd party developers can create truly engaging Wii controls for their games.
If Madden for Wii is engaging and fun to play then Wii will be able to attract a huge crowd.
But not just Madden, but EA is going to have to be able to pull that off with Basketball, Golf, 1st person shooters, ect, ect.
If the gameplay and controls are engaging the debate will completely shift from graphics to controls and play style. It will literally split the gaming market into 3 camps: those that love the Wii controls (they will buy a Wii) those that hate Wii controls (They won't buy a Wii) and those that like both controls (This market will be split between who buys and not).
This would be bad for Nintendo except that they are also trying to reach beyond the traditional gaming markets. If Nintendo even taps just 10-20% of that market, they have a huge new list of millions of gamers.
Post by: IceCold on July 13, 2006, 10:19:21 PM
QuoteWell, Disaster isn't a first party title, but yeah, you're right.
Nintendo CLEARLY has not given up on developing for the older audience, what with bringing out some in-house franchises which are geared to older audiences (Day of Disaster, HAMMER, TP, MP3, to name a few) as well as helping 3rd parties bring mature franchises to the Wii (Red Steel and I'm sure there are others we don't even know about yet).
QuoteI think there already is one..
I understand this is a Nintendo forum but someone else had to have had a genesis? Maybe I'll make a thread in the other systems forum to help out people with Sega on the virtual console.
Also, when we moved from the 64 to the 'Cube, the graphics were a lot better. The leap was big, and the quality went up tremendously. This isn't happening right now - the plateau is arriving. It's the third 3D generation, and as much as developers are doing, the gap from this generation to next isn't impressive at all. In the case of the Wii, the gap in graphics between the Wii and the PS3 definitely won't be as noticeable as the one from the DS to the PSP.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 13, 2006, 11:41:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteWell, Disaster isn't a first party title, but yeah, you're right.
Nintendo CLEARLY has not given up on developing for the older audience, what with bringing out some in-house franchises which are geared to older audiences (Day of Disaster, HAMMER, TP, MP3, to name a few) as well as helping 3rd parties bring mature franchises to the Wii (Red Steel and I'm sure there are others we don't even know about yet).QuoteI think there already is one..
I understand this is a Nintendo forum but someone else had to have had a genesis? Maybe I'll make a thread in the other systems forum to help out people with Sega on the virtual console.
Also, when we moved from the 64 to the 'Cube, the graphics were a lot better. The leap was big, and the quality went up tremendously. This isn't happening right now - the plateau is arriving. It's the third 3D generation, and as much as developers are doing, the gap from this generation to next isn't impressive at all. In the case of the Wii, the gap in graphics between the Wii and the PS3 definitely won't be as noticeable as the one from the DS to the PSP.
Right on, I agree with everything you have said. We are reaching a plateau (just look at the photos of Crysis from the developers of Far Cry, that is almost photo realistic), and honestly the only steps that are left are adding more particle effects or better lighting. I've recently upgraded my PC from a 6800 GT to a 7900 GTX and really there was not a very big gap (the same applies to when I jumped from the Geforce Ti 500 to a 6800 GT) in graphical quality, most of what I seen was in framerate. For myself, I am really at the point where framerate is what matters the most to me, not how "pretty" the pointless (IMO) lighting effects or bump mapping is, and if WIi can achieve that then I will be more than satisfied. Personally I think the noticeable gap between Wii and PS3/Xbox 360 will be that of PS2 (or perhaps slightly less) to the Xbox.
Post by: couchmonkey on July 14, 2006, 05:35:55 AM
Having said that, I think it's going to take years of effort to get human CG characters to the level of reality, if it can even be done, it's like we're 99% of the way there, but the last 1% is going to take forever, like the progress bar on your computer.
Post by: Ceric on July 14, 2006, 06:11:04 AM
