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Messages - Kairon

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14901
Nintendo Gaming / RE:Famitsu survey regarding next gen
« on: June 13, 2005, 01:56:09 PM »
Unfortunately, Nintendo is still tinkering around with the interface/controller, as per recent Miyamoto statements. The 0.0 % figure is alarming though, as I assumed that, given Nintendo's statement of promising SSBM for launch, and SquareEnix's statement of FF:CC 2, I was thinking more like...0.1% ? LOL.

Regardless, this implies that not many, if any, developers have even received the crude details they need to start preliminary development using PCs.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14902
LOL. I don't think Yamauchi would decapitate me and devour my neural matter. After all, despite Yamauchi's wide-ranging business endeavors (everything from instant rice to taxis to love motels), he seemed to have complete confidence in Miyamoto's ability to deliver great games to push the NES console in the 80's. In fact, his tyrannical rule over third parties in the 8-bit age, limiting their # of games released in a year, trying to force them into quality over quantity (as Yamauchi probably saw quantity as the doom of videogames, as per the Atari 2600's E.T.), still exists today in Nintendo's "Quality over Quantity" and "We'll release it when it's done" mantras.

For such a controversial figure as Yamauchi, there is at least one good thing to his credit: he allowed a newly discovered Miyamoto some of the most brilliant games ever.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14903
Quote

Originally posted by: Pittbboi


...Only that vision isn't what Nintendo sees for itself. Never have you seen Iwata say that he's comfortable with Nintendo being in last place, or that it only makes its hardware for its games. Remember, the main push by Nintendo back in the pre-Gamecube release period was to get itself back on speaking terms with third party developers. It failed at this, but that goal hasn't changed with the Revolution. Why do you think they're emphasizing how high production costs are becoming and making such an effort to bring them down? Nintendo wants other companies to develop for their hardware, and it wants to gain more marketshare to make its hardware that much more appealing.  It's foolish to think that a Nintendo console could survive on it's own games. It simply can't. Nintendo knows this; a lot of people still apparently don't.

What a lot of us "naysayers" are doing here isn't just needlessly poking at Nintendo, it's realizing that some of the decisions made by Nintendo may hinder its own goals. I don't think anyone is doubting that games with still play well and look stunning on the Revolution with or without HD support. However, there's no denying that lack of this support will cost it potential sales--and Nintendo is in no position to risk potential sales, because sales determine how much 3rd party support you get, and THAT'S what floats a console.


There are two sides to Nintendo, two different avenues on which they must act. One side is the avenue that Iwata now heads, and that is keeping Nintendo in business. After all, Nintendo couldn't very well make great games if Nintendo didn't exist.

But that side of Nintendo only exists to ensure the viability of Nintendo's true driving force: Miyamoto and Nintendo's legacy as a software maker, their ability to freely innovate, and their ability to take games where they want games to go. This is what interests me most as a Nintendo fan. The business aspect of Nintendo's profitability is subordinate to Miyamoto's creativity.

Now obviously, this brings us to a question of "do the ends justify the means?" If Nintendo becomes financially dominant, but does so by sacrificing the only thing that truly is Nintendo, Miyamoto's legacy, then I, as a Nintendo fan would count it as an unsconciounable loss. Yet if That legacy survives, then I'm not too caught up in whether Nintendo is in 1st or 3rd place, as long as the games keep coming.

And even assuming that everyone here is working under the question, "Does HD support make-or-break Nintendo's future ability to create the games it wants to make?", I don't think the situation is as dire as everyone makes it out to be.

First of all, by striving for low production costs, Nintendo can minimize financial risk on hardware losses. GC didn't have as much support as the XBox or PS2, but Nintendo made money on it's own games, some licensing fees, AND the hardware itself: nowhere did Nintendo realize a loss except when the unique and specialized arenas of currency exchange (a weak dollar/strong yen) and hefty Research and Development coincided. And in addition to this, Nintendo can pursue the lowest price with more safety than Sony or Microsoft, and with a lower price point Nintendo consoles can become much more comfortable impulse buys for casual gamers rather than the 5-year contract you'll get when you buy the latest and greatest PSXBox.

Secondly, exactly what third party game has sold Gamecube, or the N64? Resident Evil's impact on the GC has been vastly over-rated by viewers (indeed, most were remakes, and RE4 has only moved 500,000 copies, a small amount compared to blockbusters). And the N64's only truly premier third party title was GoldenEye. Nintendo was responsible for every other signature game that kept the N64 afloat. And again, looking at DS with it's lack of marquee third party titles, again Nintendo has managed to sell the system with barely more than Nintendo Licenses and token third party ports.

And of course, while HD may be a selling point for the first-adopters, the techno-lusters, and the internet-savvy, 1080p is hardly commonplace now, nor would excluding 1080p make developers unable to make games that they could before (thus satisfying a key IanSane flashpoint: traditional genres (Street-Fighter-esque fighting games, for example) must not be excluded).

Finally, while the developers may definitely take advantage of 1080p support on other systems, it's exclusion makes Revolution development and ports easier, not harder. After all, this is eye candy.

Now it's no question that a COMPLETE lack of third party support will pretty much relegate a Nintendo console to the dustbin of history, yet that is highly unlikely, as long as EA sits pretty in their "top dog" position and desires as many console makers to fight it out while they rake in the big bucks.

But when reviewing the topic at hand, I'm amazed at the weight people give to issues like this. Iwata's job is to keep Miyamoto in business. Miyamoto's job is to keep making the best games he can possibly make. And I doubt that not supporting bleeding edge 1080p will endanger either aspect to the point that Miyamoto will no longer be able to make the next Mario.

High Definition or not, if the next Nintendo game rocks, I'll be there to buy it. And experience seems to show that although there are no more than 20 million people like me, that there are enough to keep Nintendo in the business of making games... which of course, is the only reason we're all here anyways.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14904
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"I'm still at a loss as to why any Nintendo fan would care whether Nintendo is in #1 or #3. I thought we all bought Nintendo for their gamer, not for the bragging rights of having the top-market console in our home."

I'm still at a loss as to why people don't understand the simple concept that #1 = amazing third party support, #3 = sh!tty third party support.  There are more advantages to being #1 than bragging rights.

Someone brought up that Nintendo already confirmed HD: "It will play GameCube games as well as a new class of high-definition games"

I think "new class" leaves things open to debate.  Perhaps in that quote she's refering to the rumoured 3D headset or whatever.  Nintendo is infamous for using weird vague terms to describe things so in this context "high-definition" possibly doesn't mean what everyone but Nintendo thinks it does.


I don't buy Nintendo systems to play third party games, and I never will. Nintendo isn't in the hardware business for any other reason than to support their software efforts. They had to enter hardware to introduce the + pad to replace the joystick. They were the ones who made force-feedback and analog control a reality. And whatever they've got cooking up now for Revolution, Nintendo's ultimate goal is not to sell more systems, but to make newer, more interesting and better games.

As a Nintendo fan who understands that Nintendo making hardware is only truly important as it relates to Nintendo making software, I don't care much over whether Nintendo's hardware has a #1 market position or not. All I want is for Nintendo to keep making the best games they possibly can, enabled by both their hardware and software vision. This position is NOT threatened by the discussion over whether third-parties develop on a Nintendo console or not, and that is why I consider myself a Nintendo Fan.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14905
I'm still at a loss as to why any Nintendo fan would care whether Nintendo is in #1 or #3. I thought we all bought Nintendo for their gamer, not for the bragging rights of having the top-market console in our home.

In fact, the more you get to know Nintendo, the more it seems suitable that they're not ast the forefront of the marketshare heap. The videogame industry has changed, and that change is only indicative of Nintendo's success. We should be proud that Nintendo raised the industry to surpass what they can give it, not outraged that Nintendo can't be everything to everyone.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14906
So...who here actually dislikes for a personal reason instead of an imagined Nintendo-must-be-uber mentality?

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14907
Nintendo Gaming / RE:Revolutionary Controller
« on: June 10, 2005, 09:42:38 PM »
The C buttons on the N64 controller were replaced by the C-stick, which can easily take over the C button functionality.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14908
Reference: http://cube.ign.com/articles/624/624200p1.html

To wit:

Quote

"It is accurate that at this time we will not support high-definition [on Revolution]," confirms Nintendo of America's vice president of corporate affairs, Perrin Kaplan.

"Nintendo's Revolution is being built with a variety of gamers' needs in mind, such as quick start-up time, high power, and ease of use for development and play. It's also compact and sleek, and has beautiful graphics in which to enjoy innovative games," Kaplan says. "Nintendo doesn't plan for the system to be HD compatible as with that comes a higher price for both the consumer and also the developer creating the game. Will it make the game better to play? With the technology being built into the Revolution, we believe the games will look brilliant and play brilliantly. This can all be done without HD."


What I can't figure out is whether this refers to 480, 1080i, or 1080p. But the move certainly appears to grow out of a cost benefit analysis by Nintendo.

Especially with Nintendo positioning themselves as an "AND" choice (that is, buy a PS3 AND a Rev, or a X360 AND a Rev), cutting manufacturing costs for a low, impulse buy price is imperative. Additionally, it may keep development prices for the Rev down.

Quote

"Companies focused on outdoing each other for technology's sake are using the power of public relations to confuse the media into thinking high-definition is a live-or-die part of the games of the future," says Kaplan. "It is a technological fact that games will still look incredibly beautiful and play incredibly well without the high cost of making them HD compatible. HD may be one of the technologies of the future. Is it the gaming industry's only future? We don't think so."


Quote

"This is my single biggest worry," admits Eggebrecht. "Let's put it this way. At 640x480 [standard definition], we're at a point where we can do anything. Anything. Finally. But with high-definition, I think we're at about the same level of challenge when it comes to framerate as we are this generation. You can do a hell of a lot more polygons. You can do a hell of a lot more shaders. But the inherent fill-rate issues are still certainly there. Will it be a 30-frame time? Will it be a 60-frame time? It will be interesting to see."


The IGn article also states that HD penetration rate in the US is 12.5% right now, but that HD marketshare is sluggish in both Europe and Japan.

Quote

Europe's inability to settle on a unified HD standard stalled its plan to get rolling with the format. Now, the continent is set to use the same HD standards as America, but nevertheless manufacturers have been slow to gain momentum with the conversion just as Europeans have been slow to embrace it.

The Japanese market has encountered similar issues, which might explain why Nintendo, whose decision makers operate out of Kyoto, is unwilling to accept high-definition.




Once you all recover from your knee-jerk reactions, I'd like to think you'd ask yourselves: What should this tell us?

I, for one, don't care much about HD-TV. As long as the darn game plays, I'm good. Besides, we'll be playing NES, SNES and N64 games on our Revolution!

But while this news doesn't affect me personally, it makes me ever more interested in the Revolution launch price. Let's remember Hiroshi Yamauchi's aim for the original NES: a game machine that sold at 100 bucks. They missed thta mark, but they still sold the NES for cheaper than anything else on the market, that WHILE the NES was also the least capable system technologically, and had cut corners on everything from chips, to memory.

And again, I'm reminded of the "And" approach. Nintendo isn't telling us to buy a Revolution instead of another system, but to buy a Revolution IN ADDITION TO another system. In essence, Nintendo is going to try to enter living rooms via the "stealth mode" of the price-conscious/impulse buy. This is an intrigueing strategy, and could definitely be much more successful than Nintendo trying to face Sony and Microsoft head-to-head. Referring back to the NES... could a console that launches at $199 in 2006 sneak into everyone's living room? Could a console that launches at $150 do it?

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14909
Nintendo Gaming / RE:Factor 5 jumps ship. Swims over to Sony camp.
« on: May 22, 2005, 02:22:50 PM »
Good. Now I can stop fearing the release of Rogue Leader 4 like it's the end of the world.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14910
Quote

Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"This is a fun thread. I got a kick out of Paladin's remark about online. Buddy, can you not see Nintendo themselves is excited for online? No one forced them to this. They haven't given in to anything."

I call BS. Are you really convinced that Nintendo would have done this if Microsoft hadn't started Live? Because I'm not. They give all these excuses for not using online, then they start watering down the excuses, and then they finally stop making excuses altogether, and you expect me to believe they weren't dragged into this screaming and kicking?

"They've finally got the type of online they wanted. Quit living in your pipe dream where Nintendo still agrees with you about online."

What the hell? You don't even know what type of online they have, and you're telling me it's the type they want? Buddy, I think it's you who should quit living in your pipe dream where online is absolutely good and Nintendo has fallen captive to its enthralling appeal.

It's not like I developed this hatred of online gaming overnight. I'll be seeing you on the other side in a few years when you get sick of online games too... count on it.

And one last thing. Why do people always provoke me into yet another online argument? You all know how I feel. Get used to it, you're not going to change my opinion. Just walk away and shake your head at my delusions, if that's what you think they are.


Paladin, Nintendo has been experimenting with online connectivity since the NES. Their Famicom Disk Drive was tied into online, The Super Nes had the "satellite" network, and the N64 had a "Ram-net" for the ill-fated Rambus. Nintendo has CLEARLY been waiting for the right time to go online, and they've decided that the time is now.

Besides, it should be evident that Nintendo doesn't want online connecitivity purely for player-matching services, but only once they can figure out a way to use online connections to create something OTHER than PvP deathmatches or consistent worlds. Clearly, Miyamoto and Nintendo believes that they finally have some software that has a chance of not looking like a copycat of Rare's 64-multiplayer Perfect Dark 0.

Without speculating on what new software Nintendo is keeping under wraps, Animal Crossing DS is a perfect example of a game where online connectivity is used NOT to simply match players, but to create a meaningful player community that consists of more than trash talk and waiting for games. And the Revolution's online connectivity will also make buying Nintendo's retro catalogue of games painless, seamless, and appealing.

If Nintendo had the games for online connectivity, I'm sure they would've gone online ages ago. Heaven knows, they had the experimental technology to do it. But what good is an online network if it's only used to copycat Sony and MS' player-matching? In Online connectivity, Nintendo is the company with the MOST to lose if they can't do anything new with the online medium: without a compelling reason to go online, without their downloadable backlog of games and their aims at creating meaningful player relations via Animal Crossing, and whatever else they've got up their sleeve, Nintendo will only prove to the world that they are a copycata and second-hander.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

P.S. forgive me, I haven't argued with you yet about Nintendo and Online connectivity. &P

14911
Hey, who told you you could continue the argument without me? I go to play some WarCraft III and I come back...and this? lol.

Anyways, We HAVE seen Nintendo firing on all cylinders. That was the first 2.5 years of the N64 basically, what with Mario 64, Mario Kart64, StarFox 64, Goldeneye, Mario Party, Zelda and Pokemon. That was the most recent "goldenage" in my memory. And the fact of the matter is that for Nintendo to fire all cylinders they needed cartridges. Load times would've destroyed OoT and Mario 64. Nintendo, at their best, was not and still isn't the common person's idea of smart business. BUT, they'd certainly deserve the description of a develper in a new, albeit short, golden period.

In fact, to see Nintendo not create unique hardware is to see a handicapped Nintendo. They obviously don't believe that software alone is the answer, they need to create hardware that enables software to do new things, via new interfaces and new inputs. To Nintendo, hardware isn't worthwhile because of how many polygons it can pump out, but because of the relationship it can generate between the user and the game.

Nintendo is not JUST a software company. That's why it's unthinkable right now for them to go third party. Interface and ergonomics are as much a part of their gamer creation as the programming. They made the analog stick for Mario 64, the rumble pak for StarFox, 4 controller ports for Mario Kart 64, the "satellite" button setup for the GC controller for games like SSBM or Kirby's Air Ride, the touch screen for the DS and Yoshi's Touch & Go; all hardware innovations that Sony and MS would've taken 20 more years to bring out, they ushred into creation for the sole purpose of furthering their games.

So we've been seeing a Nintendo on full cylinders, making no compromises, putting out the best games they possibly could from Super Mario 64 all the way up to Super Mario Sunshine. (Personally, I feel that with Super Mario Sunshine, and later with (the unfinished) Wind Waker, something happened with Nintendo's internal developmental process that caused them to turn out substandard games)

And they haven't met with a lot of people's approval. *shrug* But again, we all seem to share the same estimation of the common person's ability to judge quality gaming.

Oh, and in response Strell, I don't believe that the malaise about buying a new system every 4 years will be specifically Nintendo's problem. That's purely a problem of technology and it's quick pace, heck, to keep up to date you have to buy a new computer every two years don't you? This will affect the PS3 and XBox 360 equally well (probably a little more the X360 since they're not backwards compatible). Yet this also means that the systems must do more to justify their purchase. I'd like to think that wherefore Sony and X360 are forced to say: "buy our system because it can crunch more polygons" Nintendo might be able to say, "You've never seen anything like this on a system before. Easy backlog of games, innovative controls, new gameplay possibilities, and all at a lower price point." Between the two, Nintendo's would be a more compelling argument to buy a new system every couple of years, much more interesting than "better graphics."

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14912
Nintendo Gaming / RE:Miyamoto interview on IGN
« on: May 19, 2005, 05:49:36 PM »

You do realize that the era when Nintendo had more influence was when Hiroshi Yamauchi was illegally opressing the other game companies right? They would dictate which games WOULD and WOULDN'T be released due to their own interpretation of the game's quality, they put restrictions on the number of games third parties could release in any one year, they were also naturally conservative in the content of games, though the quality of graphics those days probably made it unnecessary.

The Nintendo you want is a Nintendo made possible only by the incompetence of third parties, the collapse of the videogame industry in '83, and by Hiroshi Yamauchi's hated tactics.

It certainly was a golden age, but it was a golden age because the genies we have today hadn't been let out of the bottle. Those genies are competent third parties who can make decently successful games, the evoltuion of technology to a point where Nintendo can no longer stay on top, and the successful rebirth of an Industry that Nintendo saved, such that it has more stylistic directions than Nintendo could probably care about.

Sure, that golden age was great, and it was necessary. The collapse of '83 put the industry in a spot suchas where only Hiroshi Yamauchi and Nintendo could save it. They saved it by impinging on developer's freedoms (Nintendo dictated Q & A, max # of games that could be released in a year) and by completely obliterating the "adult" portion of videogaming, instead, recasting it towards children.

In a sense, Nintendo's success at saving videogames has evolved the market to such a point where Nintendo simply can't take the game industry further in certain ways. This is when Sony came in, to do things with games that Nintendo couldn't. (Become more hardware centric, let third parties blossom, re-enter the adult videogame market)

This isn't a bad thing, but the viewpoint allows one to reinterpret Nintendo. Nintendo is perhaps the most important videogame company of all time: they saved videogames. But the period where videogames needed intensive care is over. Gaming, now constantly changing and evolving, is too large an enterprise to be overseen by one micro-managing perfectionist company like Nintendo.

Nintendo still has a lot to give to videogaming, but not as the be-all and end-all of interactive entertainment. I agree with you, a lot of todays games are simply...lacking... and Sony and Microsoft have turned the entire gaming world commercialistic and mass market. Yet that's part of what gaming is now, for better or worse, and it's precisely that way because Nintendo taught the world that videogames were fun.

I wouldn't know what to make of it if Nintendo was in the top dog position again. I bet it would be good overall, but I doubt that Nintendo has anywhere NEAR the energy, resources, to last long in such a position. But I feel that Nintendo has already been in that position during the 80's and early 90's, and that they were able to give the gaming industry so much in that time that there's probably nothing left the game industry could learn from them in that form.

Now I see a Nintendo who's still creating amazing games and still driving forward with their beliefs in innovation, game control, all-age access, and quality. I don't see a company that used to BE videogames, I see a company that is more successful than ever at making new and brilliant games in their own style, a company that innovates, and can lead by example instead of merely by monopolistic Yamauchi-esque edicts.

I agree though... EVERY Nintendo fan wants Nintendo to be #1 again. But I'd hope that Nintendo fans also realize that they never really loved Nintendo because they were in a position of power over other companies. I'd hope they realized that Nintendo gave us the first battery-backed saves in the original Zelda, gave us warp zones in Super Mario Bros., the portable gameboy, Mario Paint and Pokemon, the oft-copied light world/dark world mechanic from Zelda:Lttp, the analog control from the N64 and the lock-on battle system from Zelda: OoT and WW.

All of these never came because Nintendo was #1. They came because Nintendo refused to compromise their values in the face of adversity, and even though this may have cost them the #1 position in the industry, their games were able to be realized in the way that Nintendo wanted them to be.

In a way, I ultimately believe that the world benefits more from Nintendo's freedom to create things the way they want to, than from Nintendo being in a position to babysit all the other companies.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14913
Certainly I'd hope that traditional games would also work well on Nintendo's system. After all, if we can play GC and NES games on it, why not?

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14914
I think you're accurate Artimus. Nintendo isn't trying to change the entire industry so much as change the conditions under which they can be called a success. I wouldn't call it "carving a nitch" because that's too restrictive a term and Nintendo is doing something a alittle larger scale than that, but they are indeed trying to change the industry's perception of hat success is and how it can be achieved.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14915
Nintendo can't. There entire company is geared towards game-making and their hardware side is only really present in the realm of interfaces.

They CANNOT compete technologically, as evidenced by the fact that they now completely rely on IBM and ATI. Even their NES was underpowered compared to competition, their GB, and perhaps even their SNES. Besides that, NO ONE in Nintendo has any in-depth experience in the computer industry. Nintendo is nothing more than a big software maker who makes hardware as a way to spur on software innovation, they are completely inexperienced in cutting edge technology and couldn't even hope to conceive of something like the CELL chip, which, Sony as a huge consumer electronics company, can.
Every single Nintendo console from the Gamecube on is second-hand technology that they have to pay even more money to Matsushita and ATI to throw in.

They CANNOT make better games, at least in the way market dictates. Third parties weaned on the Super NES can now make games that, for all intents and purposes, REPLACE Nintendo games. People who bought the PS2 DID NOT MISS MARIO. They just bought Jak and Daxter, rachet and Clank, and who knows what else.

They CANNOT capitalize on existing markets such as online connectivity solely because Nintendo can be "replaced" by third parties. This is no longer the age of the single 800 pound ape. This is the age where a Sony specifically tries to counter HALO 2 with a similar game released at that time frame. This is the age where Nintendo does NOT create the best games in genres for many players, and where they will be seen as second-rate. This is the age where Electronic Arts, NOT Nintendo, has the power to say "yea" or "may" to new systems.

They CANNOT hope to rival Sony or MS in terms of resources, no matter how much money they have in the bank. Sony and Microsoft are multidisciplinary companies with their hands in not only gaming and computing, but consumer electronivs, networking, entertainment, movies, etc.

They CANNOT hope to equal their competitors in 3rd party support ever, unless they get the marketshare to prove it. They can't get the marketshare without 3rd party support. No matter how much they beg, or pay, or bribe, or deal, they can never rely on 3rd parties.

That's why Nintendo is doing what they're doing now.
They're saying: Our online will be seamless, cheap and/or free, and will have a catalogue of old Nintendo games. Sony or MS can't compete on that last point.
They're saying that they need to create new gameplay experiences that are outside of the normal realm of gaming, such as Nintendogs and whatever else may come down the pipe, online or not. Sony or MS are completely ignoring that market. (well, not MS, they're including Solitaire Hearts and Backgammon with the XBOX360 I hear.)
They're saying that they need to CHANGE the nature of the game market and industry.

Because under the current way the game industry works, Nintendo CANNOT succeed. The current game industry is perfect for companies like MS or Sony, and suicide for Nintendo. That's why their code name is revolution: the only way they CAN succeed is to change the rules, so that what dictates success aren't the issues that Sony or MS are strong at, but instead the issues that play to Nintendo's strengths.

Basically put, Nintendo is trying for a revolution because they ARE NOT COMPETITIVE in the current videogame imarket. They need to change the environment around them, or die a slow death.

Carmine M. red
Kairon@aol.com

14916
Nintendo Gaming / RE: Miyamoto interview on IGN
« on: May 19, 2005, 02:49:21 PM »
I can't wait for you to stop caring Ian Sane.

I've never been a Nintendo fan for their marketshare, nor for their graphics.  I stay interested In Nintendo because they do some of the best innovation and gameplay I've gotten my hands on.

You seem to want Nintendo to be everything Sony and MS are, AND more. Well, I'd just like to tell you, it can't be done. You simply CAN'T one-up Sony or Microsoft at their own game. It's all Nintendo can do to just keep up.

Therefore, Nintendo will ALWAYS have those negatives. Nintendo's only hope to survive is to create positives via quality games and innovative gameplay that can balance those negatives out. This is what Nintendo seems to be pursuing.

Look Ian Sane, you're asking for Nintendo to BE Sony and Microsoft. They simply can't. They don't have the resources, the know-how, nor do they have the pervading market presence or any brand at all outside the videogaming field. What you're asking for is impossible, and it is all Nintendo can do to simply keep up.

Look at it this way: Nintendo is NOT a hardware maker. They are a software maker who maintain a presence in the hardware market to make their software innovations possible. If you want a cutting edge powerhouse system, fine, get a PS3 or XBO360. Sony and Microsoft can give you what they want, but Nintendo, a company whose NES was ALREADY inferior technology against its competitors, they're not the company you're looking for.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14917
I believe a more appropriate word is resources. Nintendo has money because they've been frugal and they keep it liquid. Sony has their money tied up in all sorts of different departments and entertainment ventures, all very multi-disciplinary resources that Nintendo cannot emulate and that Sony can easily bring to bear (i.e. Blu-ray DVD). Anyone know the net worth of Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo so we can do a comparison? lol.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14918
Nintendo Gaming / RE: Thursday-aton!
« on: May 19, 2005, 02:38:58 PM »
Even if no PSone game ever came as close to SM64 in use of the analog stick, the mere presence of the Dual Shock controller effectively negated what was one of the few N64 selling points left. The N64 did worse because the PSX had analog sticks...and TWO of them!

It's the same thing as DVD playback. Technically, Nintendo "stole it" from Sony and MS to remove a unique selling point from them.

And if you're faulting Nintendo for not putting out a key product while they had such innovation exclusively, that's even more reason for Nintendo to hold back. They realized that the exclusivity of their innovations will run out very quickly, and they might as well NOT give the competition a head start.

~Sallow

14919
I hate it when people compare Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft using standards that they don't even question. The simple fact of the matter is that, as early as the Gamecube's launch, we all should've realized that Nintendo CANNOT go toe-to-toe with Sony or Microsoft in any obvious way.

Simply put, Nintendo is little more than a large, experimental Japanese software company. Compared to the Cancerous-Domino-Octopus Microsoft, or the Skynet-like Sony, Nintendo has less resources, less know-how, less technological know-how, less pervasive market presence, and less chance than a snowball in hell.

So how does Nintendo seem to be coping? By examining the strategy of Sony and Microsoft. Sony and Microsoft are NOT in this for the games, they see the videogame market as a backdoor entry into people's living rooms, with their systems slowly progressing into what Sony and Microsoft hope to be game/DVR/computer/tv/internet hybrids. They basically want to take control of all of people's entertainment options via the game system, and this is what leads them on their rampage to cutting edge technology, endless ports, and that "technolust" factor that drives the early adopters in a traditional consumer electronics product plan.

Where's the chink of armor in that? With the first hints of the revolution, we should see how Nintendo hopes to carve out a successful niche for themselves in the market: Instead of committing hara-kiri by trying to out-compete Sony or Microsoft on Electronics or Computer technology (areas where absolutely NO one can challenge either Sony or Microsoft), they are trying to broaden the casual gaming market directly. This is what Nintendo means when they say "Revolution," they will try to change the structure of the videogame market where casual gamers are not the hangers-on off whatever the technolusting early adopters do, but instead are customers who can be sold to directly via introduction of new control schemes, new game types, and simplicity of use and pricing.

We can already see this with Nintendo's DS. Nintendogs, Electro-Plankton, Mystery games and Wario Ware are all games that defy contemporary hardcore convention: instead of providing a linear gameplay experience, they create new types of gameplay that appeal to Non-Traditional gamers, i.e. new customers who wouldn't normally be sought after by Sony or Microsoft except as after-thoughts who buy the PS2 3 years after it's out. Is it successful? Again, look to the DS. While "traditional straight-shootin' console gamers" like us don't know what to make of it, the Japanese have made the tamagotchi-esque Nintendogs a huge hit. And Animal Crossing DS may just prove to be the unique DS hit that Nintendo is incorporating into their battle plan: instead of having a select few early adopters ooh and ah at minimally improved graphics while gameplay remains virtually the same, Nintendo can offer games aimed directly at the wider-than-expected casual gaming market where Halo, Tekken, and MGS are not considered god's gifts to men.

This strategy allows Nintendo to choose their battleground. If Nintendo fights Sony and Microsoft solely on technology, or electonica geek-lust, then they will always lose. Always. But Sony and Microsoft are concentrated on taking over the living room via the early-adopter technolust strategy, so that leaves them blind to new gameplay possibilities. Already, we've seen the PS3 and X360 controllers. They are the exact same things as the PS2 and S controllers, except wireless (and imho, uglier). Sony and Microsoft believe that the true future in gaming is merely to keep continuously ramming more power and more graphics, more polys and more lightsources, into games that play basically the same as their predecessors. Nintendo hasn't revealed their controller because like Miyamoto said, Nintendo's analog stick was stolen, as was their rumble pack, their wireless controllers, and so many other innovations that Sony and Microsoft, with their armies of engineers, can replicate within 6 months. Let Sony and Microsoft innovate for themselves.

We've already seen Nintendo start to experiment with the DS's touch screen opening up new styles of gameplay that can appeal to non-traditional gamers. And while with the revolution, the requisite Metroid, SSBM and Mario will satisfy some traditional fans, any growth in marketshare is DIRECTLY reliant on Nintendo's ability to create new gameplay that isn't simply copied over and over by their competitors. And that new gameplay is what Nintendo is holding back, along with their new controller.

What's the revolution? The revolution IS NOT in the increase of technological power, but the application of it. Instead of making systems that can run hotter or faster than each other, Nintendo wants to make something that appeals to people who are outside of Sony and MS' blast radius. Microsoft wants to use the internet to connect players in Perfect Dark Zero deathmatches. Nintendo wants to use it to not only do that for SSBM, but connect Animal Crossing communities in ways that appeal to people without an urge to twitch-kill. Sony seems to believe that if they throw enough polygons at a game, they'llc ross a magical point where it will somehow convey "emotion." Nintendo knows that emotion is not a product of the eyes, but one of the heart. Players didn't cry over Aeris in FF7 because of the graphics, they cared because the story crafted a connection to her; Players won't see their DS' as personal extensions of themselves because of Metroid Prime Hunters (though that may entice some of you out there), but because their Nintendogs have wormed their way into their hearts.

Nintendo's success, ever since Sony entered the game market, has relied on their games. Now, with third parties having the ability to create quality games in any of the conventional genre, Nintendo, even iIF they had third party support, would have nothing to help them stand out...except new games that feature new gamestyles that connect with people who Sony and Microsoft expect to be rewarded with 2 years after their hardcore early adopter launches.

Will it work? Can Nintendo revolutionize, democritize, the industry by creating game experiences, either with ease of use, retro-games, or new gameplay? Only time will tell, and only the secrets that Nintendo's hiding can determine the outcome. Maybe it's even IMPOSSIBLE for Nintendo at this point, maybe the tides of history will be against them, just like it was against so many great powers in the past.

But to me one thing is clear: Nintendo CANNOT compete against Sony or Microsoft on processor speeds or polygon numbers. They will ALWAYS be behind. Nintendo is a company that made Hanafuda playing cards in the past, and software experiences now. Nintendo's only hope to succeed against Sony or Microsoft is to be different. Nintendo will be dead in the water the moment they have a system that is closely comparable to Microsoft's or Sony's boxes, because by then they'll have been so distracted as to lose their only competitive advantage, and Sony and Microsoft will NOT be beat on their home turf.

Nintendo may fail, their revolution may not succeed. It may even be coopted by Sony or Microsoft. But if that's the case, then Nintendo will have failed trying to win, trying to be unique and different and successful. They will not have failed with a retooled XBox360 on their hands and bereft of the deceny or innovation that sets them apart from Sony or Microsoft. They will have failed doing what they do best: developing innovating gameplay instead of following the consumer heartless, electronic and entertainment center bandwagon.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14920
TalkBack / RE:Iwata Keynote Tidbits
« on: March 11, 2005, 01:05:26 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
It's fun to be reactionary sometimes. You may never feel like Nintendo lets you down, but chances are with your attitude you'll never be as overjoyed when they do things right as some others here. Too much emotional control can be a bad thing.


Au contraire. There is no better joy in my videogaming life than to play a Nintendo game. I mean, even months or years later I keep discovering new insights into their game design and uncovering telling quirks that allow me to understand them better.

I'd like to think that instead of being a Nintendo fan by following their marketshare, I'm a devoted Nintendo fan because I am want to understand the company, people, and games for what they are and what drives them. I think it's a pity that fanboys have become more like fans of the public relations and the marketshare, rather than being fans of the games.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14921
TalkBack / RE:Iwata Keynote Tidbits
« on: March 11, 2005, 09:52:09 AM »
I honestly don't understand the up and down emotions of most Nintendo followers. One moment Nintendo deserves your harshest criticism and the next, you say how they make you feel stupendous joy or something rather. Iwata's recent statements are exciting, but they have not swayed my belief in Nintendo at all, nor have other issues in the past such as the lackluster Mario Kart, the poor Broadband adaptor supply, dearth of third party games or such and such.

All along I've felt that Nintendo is the one company who can best deliver on the values I look for in games: real fun, thoughtful design, pure control and surprising ingenuity, all in one package. And even as the years went on, I've not been disheartened by my favorite company, but have developed a better understanding of them. Their emphasis on "Wi-fi" as opposed to "internet" should come as no surprise, becasue Nintendo is not nearly in the same position as Sony or Microsoft when it comes to developing networks: they're not a technology company. Nintendo's lack of online with the GC wasn't a surprise, nor is their push for Wi-Fi now, because even their Famicom went online back in the 80's, and they've dedicated themselves to providing networked games only when it meets their requirements: free, easy, purposeful.

I guess all I'm saying is that I'm astounded about why Nintendo fans feelings on Nintendo are so reactionary, when they could take a more proactive role in understanding the nature of Nintendo, the Nature of the market, and indeed, the nature of the changing world around them.

Carmine M. Red

P.S. I wouldn't crow too soon about Nintendo's Wi-Fi. PSP launches in the US soon, and we have yet to see Sony's and MS's revamped plans. And remember the old videogamer's adage: software sells. The proof is in the pudding: the games and implementation. I haven't ever felt like Nintendo has let me down, but then again, I've tried to understand them in a realistic manner.

14922
TalkBack / RE:EA Buys Five Years of Exclusive NFL Rights
« on: December 15, 2004, 06:30:59 AM »
I get the feeling that EA is the most powerful videogame company in the world. I get the sense that EA ever felt inclined (they obviously don't, but hypothetically), they decimate the combined forces of Sony, Microsoft AND Nintendo combined.

Currently though, EA seems to like keeping even Nintendo in the console races, they've even stated that they feel that the competition between the consoles keeps the market healthy. Of course, they're raking in the dough...so why fix what ain't broken?

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

*note: I actually haven't read any of the posts in this thread. I know! I'm bad....*

14923
TalkBack / RE:Washington Post Says GameCube is
« on: December 02, 2004, 05:27:38 PM »
I agree pretty much with IanSane. This article points to the public perception of Nintendo's home consoles, whether or not it is factually true.

And thus, it also points to a disconnect between Nintendo's corporate and developmental culture and modern gaming culture. Let's be serious: Nintendo was and still is built around Shigeru Miyamoto's legacy. This is the guy who's latest game is about gardening (Pikmin 2)... how culturally relevant is that to gamer's in the US, or even Japan? Urban areas have no more green space, and how many boys do you know who are actual avid gardeners?

Let's face it, most mainstream gamers nowadays would call Mr. Miyamoto himself gay.

Not to say that it's their fault. No, not at all. Gaming isn't even going down the tubes. It's just that when you look at this from a larger perspective, you realize that the time for Nintendo to lead the industry as only Nintendo can has passed. Nintendo saved videogames in '84, tyranically revived it with the NES, presided over a golden AGE with the 16-bit era, and finally, with the PSX, had allowed videogaming to reach a point where it could go mainstream, where it could progress into another company's expertise.

Nintendo isn't failing or anything remotely like it (unless the only measure of success in your eyes is marketshare). But they are a relic of the past, a "Mastercraftsman" type of figure in the videogame industry who is now being replaced by Sony's and Microsoft's "factories" that democratize the gaming medium. This is not to say that Nintendo is worthless, far from it. They should be treasured and preserved for who they are, and the values they still hold in their development of games that very few companies share.

But Nintendo had their "turn" as the prime example of videogaming. It's time to let the next kid have their "go."

Besides, who knows what DMA (I refuse to call them Rockstar North!), Maxis, or Bungie can innovate in the field of videogames that Nintendo would never have come up with?

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14924
TalkBack / RE:Celebrities Like the DS
« on: November 18, 2004, 01:30:51 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Nintendo does these celebrity things a lot which is fine.  I don't care about celebrity endorsement but a lot of shallow people do so I think associating Nintendo products with celebrities is a good idea.  I just have to question Nintendo's methods here.  Who knows about this stuff?  If I didn't keep up with game news I would have no clue that Nelly digs the DS.  The only people who know that Nintendo is chillin' with celebs are hardcore Nintendo fans.  In other words the only people who know about this are the people who don't care about celebrity endorsements.  The general public are the ones that need to know about this.

Sony and MS don't just throw some party that few hear about.  They have musicians play with their product in music videos.  They offer their consoles up as parts of a grand prize for extreme sports competitions.  I remember when the Xbox was first announced they had the Rock make an appearance and then they played the highlights of the conference on WWE TV.  And then a week before the Xbox launch one of the wrestlers appeared in an Xbox T-shirt.  That's the sort of celebrity endorsement Nintendo needs to go after.  Nelly shouldn't be shilling Nintendo products in a press release he should be using Nintendo products in one of his videos.


Just sounds to me like Microsoft has the advantage of being able to drop all that dough not just on celebrity endorsements, but on face time and tv time, and have a 3+ year run of losses in their XBox gaming division.

I think this is yet another field where, even if Nintendo performed smartly and perfectly, it's competitors will always win because of their brute strength. Get into a marketting spending war with Sony AND Microsoft? Yeah, right, that's a recipe for success if I ever saw one.

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

14925
TalkBack / RE:Resident Evil 4 Not GC Exclusive
« on: November 01, 2004, 06:40:13 AM »
Well, if there's one thing we've learned today, it's that you should never rely on third parties: they're fickle and will go wherever the market leads them.

And they'll always be on the other systems because Nintendo simply isn't cut out to be the leader of the market anymore: they're simply, plainly, culturally irrelevant to most modern gamers. And the very thing that makes them irrelevant is their dedication to game-control-and-quality-at-the-cost-of-everything-else. So in the end, it's just that the time for Nintendo being the biggest thing in gaming is over. They had their day back in the 80's and 90's. It's someone else's turn now, and Sony/Microsoft are suited to bring gaming to today's masses in a way that Nintendo never could.

But another thing we should all be learning is: "are we Nintendo fans?" Does it matter to us if we're niche or not? Does it matter to us that we're buying a console for only one company's games? Does Nintendo still strike us as the only quality game maker out there, or do we play their games and go "eh..." like all our PS2-loving friends?

Simply put: DO we care enough about playing Nintendo games to disregard marketshare and industry speak? Do we believe that we can't find higher quality games of this style elsewhere? Do Nintendo values still matter to us in these modern days?

Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

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