I really need to catch up; now I'm three podcasts behind!  :'(

Don't worry.  So are the RFN Crew.

*rimshot*

^_-

Guess I'll listen

It isn't an AC "bash-fest," but they do take Nintendo to task for

A: Promoting this game at E3 as if it were the only game they were releasing

B: Not being different enough from the DS game.

Both claims cannot be refuted.

2 episodes behind
One is edited, out on Tuesday.  The other is at the end of the week.

Then we go silet till Jonny get's back from his quality time with his kin-folk.

Wasn't it pretty much the only game released? It was their big game this holiday season.

Different enough is a subjective term. You can criticize about every game out there as not being different enough from a previous iteration.

Always happy to hear that shows weren't lost to the void for a change.  I figured after these last 2 episodes that the missing episodes were just given up on and the show was just starting fresh.

Of course it is subjective, but most of us agree that it isn't different enough. If you were a Wii without internet, you'd practically be playing the DS game.

And being the target market, I'm happy to bitch.

broodwars: We're a week behind.  The problem is we did two episodes, two weeks in a row.

GP: The game is the same in more regards that most sequels get away with.  And it wasn't their only title this holiday season.  Wario Land Shake It! was unmentioned by NoA.  I mean that literally, we didn't even get the usual thousand NoA press releases for it.

DAaaMan: The DS game, Wide World, was online.

So is each Madden basically like playing the previous version? AC: CF has plenty of additions that distinguish it from the DS version that are not online. I'll say one thing I've had much more fun playing this game than the DS one. I do find it interesting that games like Rock Band, Madden, WWE, and others that are yearly games get a pass, but with AC which has probably about as many additions from the last game gets harpooned by some. Now I have no doubt the argument I will hear is "This is the first AC game in a couple of years", my answer is, so what? Does that make it any less valuable or worth playing than those other games I listed? Or are we going to judge a games worth by its development cycle?

The fact is that AC is still a great game, made even better by some minor and some larger additions. Not to mention it is far more relaxing to be playing it at home in front of your TV, instead of bending over your DS, controlling the game with either the stylus or a the clunky control pad. Give me analog control any day in this game!

Well Wario Land Shake it was a classic Nintendo title where they just wanted to release it and get it over with. They focused on their big holiday games. Wario Land held about as much importance to their 08 holiday lineup as BWii did.

This whole topic sounds remarkably similar to my reader mail submission about comparative reviews that was read in the last posted episode...

Hmmm. Lol guess you are right.

Wii Music was Nintendo's big E3 game. &P

That is true. Animal Crossing was more of their "core" game. I think the fact is that Nintendo churned out all they could for the year and filled in the gap with what they could. Next year I will be FAR more critical of them if they do the same thing. As it stands we had a GREAT 2007 and a very good first half of 2008.

Huh.  Sounds like I'm having too much fun with Animal Crossing to enjoy this episode, so I think I'll probably just sit this one out.

1 hour 40 minutes and amongst all the big games that was forgotten you didnt mention Disaster Day of Crisis.

Ya but that online sucked... also.

Hey I don't buy any of those shitty games. And people DO bitch about those other games not being updated. But with those games, it's perhaps more excusable.  With those games, it's more about, roster updates, and fresh content.  With less or concentration on fresh mechanics. I'm not saying that Madden has an excuse, but I don't buy those damn games, and I don't think largely those that are interested in Animal Crossing largely are either.

it was my Top 5 wii games topic that got them fired up for the podcast . :-)

can't to listen guys.

This was due to Disaster not coming out in North America this year. If you're looking for Disaster coverage, Episode 126 will have you covered.

Since I guess I'm the anomaly that likes Madden and Animal Crossing, I accept a new Madden every year without much change because the important thing is the roster update. Also, I know one is coming out every year. On the other hand, the Animal Crossing series has only seen three releases ever, and we typically only get one per system. It makes more sense to see each system's iteration be a bigger leap. While I'm still interested in Animal Crossing, City Folk is not that leap. It's more like a hop that might have gotten blown back by the wind in some areas.

And you may not be an anomaly, that was just a guess.

It's hardly an entire episode devoted to AC.  That is one topic among many, so I would encourage you to listen before you judge.

Also, my mom says hi to everyone.  I'm posting from the public library.

Your mom sounds HAWT

The public library, one of the best places for free internet.

Hey look, lots of bashing of Wii Music! How original!

Seriously, the bashing is almost as silly as AC. The game for one is not a bad game and for Jonny's information (and others) my family enjoys playing BOTH Wii Music and games like Rock Band. They are completely different experiences and each has their pros and cons. Wii Music has some fun mini games, the conducting is great (at least I enjoy it) and while the instrument complexity is low you can still do some great stuff with songs.

Worse game in 10 years? ROFL, did someone forget Wario Master in Disguise? Also the Wii Music sales look like they are going to be steady, so it is far from a failure even if many of you want it to.

No Mailbag  :-[

I'm a sad panda .

Overall great episode a solid 8.489 / 10

For the record, Suzak developed Wario: Master of Disguise, and so it was not the product of Nintendo's internal development teams, which I took to be Jonny's frame of reference when he was discussing the sentiment surrounding Wii Music.

How about Wii Play and Link's Crossbow Training? Those count?

Regardless it is the gaming media's favorite whipping boy. It gets tiresome especially when many of these people hated before they even played it and when they played it they decided they were going to hate it anyway. Not to mention I still find it extremely condescending (still love you Jonny) when he keeps on stating that the people who'll like it are 5 year olds. Believe it or not, there are many casual gamers out there that hate the music games for the most part, they don't have the reflexes, so a game like Wii Music is perfect. You aren't going to find many grandma's rocking out to RocK Band, but they can have a good time with Wii Music.

Honestly, both of those were fun. Wii Play is basically a $10 game with 9 entertaining mini-games. Link's Crossbow Training is basically a $10-$15 game with some fun shooting gallery bits.
Wii Music is $50.

While GoldenPhoenix might have great experiences in a family setting with Wii Music, the only experience I had with Wii Music was where my friends, family, and I played the game and enjoyed it much in the way one would enjoy a terrible movie. Basically, our enjoyment was derived from making fun of the fact that we weren't have any fun and it didn't feel like we were really doing anything.
For the record, I was optimistic going into playing it.

Nick and Chessa had fun as well. So three against one!

For my part, maybe... 2 minigames in Wii Play appealed to me. And I was vastly underwhelmed with Link's Crossbow Training. Had way more fun with Target Terror in many ways.

Price may affect value, but it doesn't determine quality. Otherwise we'd incorporate it into our reviews, and Data Design Interactive might have a better time of it! &P

But notice that Neal mentioned his friends AND family. Don't turn this into a list wars!

Besides, Nick only thinks what Chessa tells hims to.

Yeah he is a very smart individual because of it too.

Also my family is bigger than nron's family.

Haha! Wow. The Wii has wrought some strange changes to the way gamers demonstrate superiority.

Clearly you know they do, and I don't appreciate your facetious question. Having not played Wii Music (and a number of Nintendo's other internally produced titles over the past decade for that matter), I am in no position to personally judge its quality relative to Wii Play, Link's Crossbow Training or anything else. I was merely stating the fact that Wario: Master of Disguise is not pertinent to that topic, plain and simple.

The discussion in the episode refers to how Wii Music was received by the media, and whether or not you agree with that sentiment (or if you're like me and aren't in a position to say one way or another), it is inarguable that there has been a degree of negativity surrounding Wii Music that is uncommon for a Nintendo product. Jonny speaks from his personal experience playing the game at E3, but other than that we are not judging the game, but instead reflecting on the impact that it had this year (it's a Year in Review show after all) from the outside.

I really don't think Kairon was being facetious. I think he genuinely wanted to know if those counted, I personally didn't think of them so I'm glad he brought them up!

Anyway I still want to know when the FF series has been the series of the "most powerful console". It has NEVER been on the most powerful console of the generation since the SNES days.

Price does determine expectations though. As a $50 game, I expected more out Wii Music. I was disappointed. With the cheaper price points of Wii Play and LCT, I didn't expect too much.

This is very much an agree-to-disagree topic. I kind of abhor Wii Music, and GoldenPhoenix enjoys it.

For the record, I had approx. eight people that played it and disliked it. So add that to the listwarz.

EDIT: I tend to agree with GoldenPhoenix's defense of Kairon.
I don't think it was a facetious question and they also didn't cross my mind when the idea was brought up.

Now that we've beaten the Wii Music horse. I want to defend Millionheir case files. It is a wonderful  casual game that is really pick up and play and if you like "find waldo" esque stuff you'll love it. The game has virtually infinite replayability because things are radomized. So it fit right in with Nintendo's other titles like Crosswords DS, Professor Layton and others.

Wii Music is kind of cool with three 3-5 year olds. really it is.

Knowledge of Dragon Quest X at the time of this recording would have changed the discussion quite a bit.

That is why time warps confuse me! They create paradoxes!

GP--maybe you should calm down and just say you disagree with this episode and leave it at that?

I don't think this episode puts Millionheir down as a bad game as much as comments on how NOA has no games to publish on the DS other than third party games from out of nowhere.

I got the golden pig in Wii Fit (over 40 hours) and it does get boring after awhile.

Thought I was calm. I just found parts of it to be a tad bit over the top like Wii Music being for 5 year olds or Jonny's not so calm bashing of the game. I understand criticism but some of Jonny's comments seemed to go way over the top.

In regards to 3rd party games being published. So what? If they are good games and fit Nintendo's approach there is nothing wrong with that. My guess is that are already starting to shift resources to the next DS and Wii as well.

WAIT WHAT???? WII MUSIC IS FOR FIVE YEAR OLDS?????? I'VE BEEN ENJOYING A GAME FOR TODDLERS?!?

CURSE YOU NINTENDO AND YOUR CASUAL GAMING WAYS!! CURSE YOU TILL MY ROTTEN CORPSE STINKS UP THE PILE DONKEY F*CK YOU CALL CASUAL GAMING!!!

...OK, I've done my Nintendo fanboy rant of the day.

GP, just see it his way. Johnny is just meeting his quota. You HAVE to hate on Wii Music or else you'll lose credibility as a hardcore game reviewer.

...Not that he had any. He sucks. :p

Hey now I like Mr. Jonny, he is my friend on Xbox Live and he is nice to me! I show him tough love ;)

Like bondage and stuff?

To say that Wii Music appeal to five-year-olds is not to put it down.  Miyamoto himself has frequently said that the game should be particularly appealing to young children.  I have said on other episodes that the game is a lot like passing around a box of various musical instruments in a kindergarten class.  This isn't the first time Nintendo has developed a game specifically for young children -- remember that Pokemon thing for GameCube?  Even the N64 game Hey You Pikachu was that way.  I'm glad there are games for extremely young gamers.  I just don't think that is the kind of game that should be propping up Nintendo's Christmas lineup.  And I think it's fair to warn people that the game is primarily intended for children, as that may not be apparent from Nintendo's marketing campaign.

I went into E3 thinking there was going to be a new AC game and I was excited because I had never played a game like that and I wanted to try it but that press conference turned me off of AC for the Wii it just doesn't seem like my kind of game. I haven't bought a Wii game since august but after listening to this episode I really want to try Wario Land.

That's a pity Tybo, but then again it's a good thing that you looked before you leaped. It's much worse to find yourself thinking that AC isn't for you once you'v e already plunked down the money.

However, I don't think that E3, or the flak the game has received, has scared actual Animal Crossing fans at all. Many on the boards have picked up the game and seem to be enjoying it, and even I succumbed and bought it, against my better judgement since I quickly tired of the DS one despite loving the GameCube one.

Its true that the game is aimed at kids. But its also aimed at people who love to mess around with music.

If you check out the Nintendo channel they keep releasing Wii Music tips videos that tell you the basic and advanced concept of music remixing, encouraging you to try and remix a song the way you see fit. This is something that appeals to older players who likely have the time and patience to go through the same song over and over in hopes of perfecting it.

So its a game everyone can enjoy. Its easy enough that a kid can play through it and hopefully learn something while the adults mess around with its remixing feature. Its like Mario Paint. You could either make stick houses and stick people or make a whole animated film. Maybe then you will turn it into a career...

I do agree, however, that it might not be everyone I recommend a rent. But I do say that you should play it and use your own judgment rather than listening to what everyone else says since Wii Music is an experience defined by the player, meaning that it will vary from person to person.

That's pretty much the same experience I had, but I've already sunk more time into this one than I ever did on the DS.  For some reason I just had a hard time getting immersed in it on a handheld (plus I hated the DS controls).  I know this is pretty much the same game I've been playing since the Gamecube, but I just don't care because I still like it so much.

My friend is currently working on me to get the Wii version.
I enjoyed the Gamecube version, but it didn't totally grab me, and I passed on the DS version.

As someone who plays actual, real musical instruments, Wii Music is not for me. And based on what I've played, anyone who does play an instrument will have a very hard time enjoying the game for the reasons discussed on this podcast.

I've heard real musicians say similar things about Guitar Hero.

Yes, I have a similar attitude towards most music games, mostly because it's hard to hear your own mistakes. I cut Guitar Hero and Rock Band some slack because I find them to be fun social games, and the tactile feel of the guitar works for me. I have no love for Benami stuff, though.

Wii Music seems to have a different effect on just about every person who picks it up. The game definitely requires the right atmosphere, and the right people to enjoy properly. Most importantly, the game requires you to play with others in order to truly experience its magic.

To say Wii Music is aimed and can only be enjoyed by children would be absurdly wrong, as would saying that Wii Music can only appeal to those who have no musical experience. I'm pretty sure there is no definitive metric to determine its appeal.

If people want to argue that the game is probably not the best of titles to carry Nintendo through the holidays, I would agree. The game has gotten an unjustifiably bad rap, and as such, it has become a hard sell with the "hardcore" crowd, and is likely not being promoted in stores staffed by such gamers. Nintendo probably should've opted to not allow hands on time with the game on the E3 show floor as it gave many journalists a bad impression of the game due to being featured in an improper setting.

I also felt that way. I don't know why, but it was so much easier for me to get into the game with it being on my tv rather than my DS. Maybe it's because I enjoy playing it with a big screen. I appreciate it for what it is, but enjoy City Folk so much more. I do miss being able to see the flying balloons a bit easier, but not much else.