Gaming Forums > Nintendo Gaming
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
BlackNMild2k1:
--- Quote from: Adrock on March 08, 2018, 06:08:49 PM ---Either way, I want Nintendo to go back to the old naming structure. Clash/Rumble, whatever. Color me excited.
Here’s the Inkling trailer:
And a direct link for BlackNMild: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Gt42kVgCw
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Why thank you. Just now playing catch up, so I appreciate it. LOL
Oedo:
--- Quote from: MagicCow64 on March 10, 2018, 05:53:38 PM ---I'll try to be clearer since I'm causing confusion. (And Ike and Roy absolutely are based on the same Marth special moveset, which is the "soul" of a character in my book. There's no need for Marth, Ike, Roy, and Lucina to all co-exist. It's different tires on the same bicycle. Like I said, stuff about the damage gradient on the swords or hitboxes or whatever is missing the point. But we're setting that aside!)
-Is it not true that Melee remains significantly more popular than any other version of the game for tournaments? Is the Street Fighter II scene bigger than SF V?
-Regardless of competitive stuff, the base game is stale. Squeezing in an increasingly marginal extra 15 characters into the same Smash4 framework is a diminishing returns proposition. I'd rather they take another crack at reinventing the no-combo-input fighting genre, and/or rebuild a smaller core set of characters from the ground up to make things fresh instead of having 50 characters that are significantly worse than (or redundant with) 25 other characters (and hey, that could even help the competitive stuff too!). I'd personally prefer novel mechanics over maximal fan service. And if what you say is true, this should be fine because the games are all totally separate from and coeval with each other!
-Also, having 75 characters makes it less likely they'll have meaningful single player challenges and such. Smash4 was quite disappointing in this respect already. I want the targets back!
-Some random ideas: Incorporate counters into shielding or dodging or something instead of a bunch of characters having it as a special move. Remix the clones into the custom move system so there are single roster slots that you can change into variants like you do with costumes now.
But again, just spitballing. Hopefully they've got some surprises in store. Even just adding stock online modes for randos and having the option to remove dynamic elements like the yellow Mega Man monster from stages would be an improvement.
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Melee's competitive scene is probably larger, yeah, but I still don't understand the relevance of bringing that up. You could make the next Smash Bros. game better balanced, give it more interesting mechanics, or do just about anything, and most Melee players would just keep playing Melee because that's the only game they want to play (and the scene would most likely remain larger as a result). If you look at Smash 4's competitive scene on its own, it was at EVO Japan 2018, will be at the main EVO tournament for the fourth straight year, and has large tournaments taking place regularly. The fact that Melee's competitive scene is larger just says that it's even more successful and, as I alluded to earlier, Nintendo is not going to convert that fanbase no matter how good or how different the next Smash Bros. game is.
When you start talking about significantly altering the gameplay or rebuilding from the ground up, you might as well make a new series at that point. If you're going to greatly change the mechanics and focus on a smaller set of characters that are largely distinct from their current Smash Bros. iterations, you've basically rebooted the series. Maybe that's what you want and what you're trying to get at, but given that most fans are happy with the core gameplay in its current form (with most complaints being levied at stuff like single-player content or online modes) and the fact that the series continues to enjoy great critical and commercial success, I don't think that's a path Nintendo really needs to follow.
nickmitch:
--- Quote from: Caterkiller on March 10, 2018, 03:24:40 PM ---Wish list!
Character Stocks
1st stock DK, 2nd Dixie, 3rd Ridley. Every time I die my new pick shows up.
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I'm hoping for this as well. There was that one mode in the Wii U version that sort of let you do this (after you do the whole board game thing), but it really just made me long for a mode where you can pick them freely. That would make for interesting matches/tournaments.
For characters, I'd like to see Ice Climbers return. I think Shovel Knight would be a cool character to add, and maybe Captain Video as the wtf character. I'm also hoping for Funky Kong for the lolz.
Also, do you guys think they'll bring back custom moves?
Evan_B:
--- Quote from: Caterkiller on March 10, 2018, 03:24:40 PM ---And i’ll say just once more in case I can convince someone. The Smash Bros logo is new. It has those iconic cross marks going through the SUPER and the A in Smash. The little spikes on the outer S’s are gone from the Wii U and 3DS logos. The TM is placed high near the final S instead of below. There is no outline on the lettering.
Every other port has used the exact same logo with the addition of DELUXE, DX, etc.
And the music! There is a brand new original song being played in the trailer. It gives me an epic Brawl type of vibe. It almost sounds tragic.
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The song is apparently from Subspace Emissary, actually. Also the lack of "other" developers and Hal's inclusion on the trademark list is similar to Smash 4's original trailer, which only added developers/companies based on their inclusion within the trailer.
Also, you're wrong.
--- Quote from: pokepal148 on March 10, 2018, 04:13:33 PM ---
--- Quote from: Luigi Dude on March 09, 2018, 07:32:23 PM ---This is why I have no problem with Nintendo just reusing the Smash Bros Wii U engine from here on out. Smash Bros Wii U already looks incredible in motion and it would just be diminished returns trying to build a new engine from the ground up. This way then can keep all the existing characters since they won't need to graphically rebuild them each game, which will allow a 75+ character roster which this upcoming Smash will probably have.
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This also allows them to build on smash 4's balance and cleanly transition the tournament scene from smash 4 to the new game.
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This is the aspect I keep trying to push people to understand. Smash 4's competitive scene is still strong, but ZeRo, its top player, resigned from competitive play because of changes that a... ahem... specific character brought to the metagame, among other reasons (general exhaustion). Smash Switch could carry the momentum of the many Smash 4 players into a new game by retaining a lot of its higher-level techniques, as well as its basic physics, while introducing a smattering of new characters. Considering the current roster size, it seems far more feasible to do this, rather than rebuild the game from the ground up. There were numerous balance checks that took place over the first two years of Smash 4's life, some that were simply sloppy and exploitable. While software updates could certainly happen again, it makes more sense to take what they learned from Smash 4 and transfer it to a new console.
But, I'm not going to harp on this any longer. No matter what the game ends up being, I'll buy it, play it, get invested in the competitive scene. If it is new, I will eat my hat, as mentioned prior. If it were new, it would be surprising and delightful, but right now, it's simply too early to make the call, and the mostly-baseless assumptions aren't going to convince me. To me, the foundation that Smash 4 established was extremely solid and more characters (in addition to character rebalancing) would be healthy for that competitive scene- Brawl's competitive scene is non-existant because it was anti-competition, Smash 4 isn't. While there's potential for Smash 4's competitive legacy to endure like Melee, I highly doubt it would be able to retain Evo spots like that game has.
To the people who think that, in order for this Smash to be new, it needs to cut out previous content, however, I will never agree with this. It's not JUST "autistic" competitive aspects that make me say this, it's because the spirit of Smash, and indeed, the reason people are excited about the arrival of Inklings, is its breadth of inclusion. While the game doesn't have to have as many Fire Emblem characters as it does, I'd never want to take out Robin or Corrin, because they were made with care and have unique elements to their play style, just like Ike and Roy do. Also, calling someone "autistic" for understanding the differences in certain characters is a pretty brutal statement.
As with Adrock's statement, I do have some OPINIONS about characters. There are really only two or three I'd like in the game, anything more would simply be a surprise/delight. In specific, here's what I imagine for some of those fighters.
-Old Light/Twilight Link should remain, retain his moveset.
-Wild Link should have specials centered around BotW/Runes:
Neutral B- Arrows, make this much more mobile. Link can draw while moving, albeit with limited movement speed. Pulling in midair slows ascent, has diagonal downward trajectory (aim-able?)
Side B- Either Stasis, has limited range and must be aimed, think ranged Witch Time/Disable or Cryonis, creates a pillar that can be used as a shield
Down B- Bomb, drawing on the ground creates box bomb, air creates rolling bomb (or alternate draws)
Up B- Revali's Gale/Glider, decent upward range, player can glide afterwards, has a stamina meter that tells the player how long they can glide, can use Neutral B out of this.
-Inkling's moveset seems pretty obvious, but I'm curious as to how the painting/refill mechanics will work. If a player shoots at the ground, they paint the stage? Can walls be painted? Either way, I'm thinking:
Neutral B- Recharge, player ducks into Ink puddle to refill ink gauge
Side B- Ink Dash, can swim through a puddle at high speed, leap out and attack
Down B- Bomb, can be tossed for slight delay.
Up B- Squid Jump, similar to Dedede's Up B, but hits people on the way up, left vulnerable upon landing, but can do a dodge roll out of landing.
-Spring Man/Ribbon Girl seems like an obvious choice, worst case scenario would be Min Min. If Spring Man is in the game, releasing shield should give him his signature deflect, which should cancel projectiles. If Ribbon Girl is in, she should get four jumps like in game. As in the game, Punches should be very high-commitment, long range but can only throw two at a time. Dodging/Blocking/Landing on the ground should charge ARMS.
ARMS moveset is limited, but could be cool:
Neutral B- ARM switch. I feel like this is the best way Smash could handle the variety present in ARMS. Players can switch between one of three ARMS, likely Roaster, Boomarang, and Megaton/Revolver. Each ARM has a different trait when charged, EX Roaster fire damage, Boomarang wind damage, Megaton super armor/Revolver electrocutes. ARM changes would cycle through, but you'd only be able to change through one cycle before it moving to the next one, EX:
First Cycle Player Start- Double Roaster
One Input- Roaster/Boomarang
Two Inputs- Roaster/Megaton
Second Cycle (one input after First Cycle Two Input)- Double Boomarang
One Input- Boomarang/Megaton
Two Inputs- Boomarang/Roaster
Third Cycle (one input after Second Cycle Two Input)- Double Megaton
One Input- Megaton/Roaster
Two Inputs- Megaton/Boomarang
Side B- Curve Punch, can be angled up or down. Roaster has slighter curve but faster, Boomarang has huge curve but slower, Megaton is super slow very slight curve.
Down B- Rush, can only be used if Rush Gauge is full. Think Limit/KO Punch.
Up B- Grab, works similarly to a tether grab, can be angles when used on the ground.
-Rex and Pyra could be a cool take on the two-fighter philosophy. I'm thinking:
Neutral B- Double Spinning Edge. Longer range attack, can hit players as it spins. If it connects, fills Special Gauge. If canceled, fills further.
Side B- Sword Bash. Similar to Back Slash, deals more damage from the rear. Stationary, long forward range. If it connects, fills Special Gauge. If canceled, fills further.
Up B- Rolling Smash. Circular strike, but propels Rex upwards. Think Aether with less range. If connects, fills Special Gauge. If canceled, fills further.
Down B- Blade Art. Rex throws Blade to Pyra, who is lighter and faster than him, with the exception of specials. Pyra remains in control as Rex's Special Gauge diminishes- the higher the gauge, the longer she is out. Her specials are:
Neutral B- Flame Nova. Larger range circular attack similar to Double Spinning Edge.
Side B- Blazing End. Ranged buzzsaw attack.
Up B- Prominence Revolt. Flames erupt from underneath Pyra and send her skyward. Launch deals damage.
Down B- Mythra Attack. Powerful burst of energy, quick transformation to Mythra.
I can see Travis Touchdown appearing, especially if Nintendo attempts to help push No More Heroes in a way similar to Bayonetta. Otherwise, I honestly don't know who they would add and I don't care. I'm just excited.
Adrock:
--- Quote from: Evan_B on March 10, 2018, 08:34:06 PM ----Old Light/Twilight Link should remain, retain his moveset.
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But, but Toon Link... even with the changes I suggested, he's largely the same. I was trying to avoid a Dragon Ball Z situation where there are a bunch of Gokus. This would be a good way for reducing the number of "clones" even though I suggested cutting the original. Toon Link retains the moveset, and Adult Link can be a costume for Hylian Champion Link.
--- Quote ----Wild Link should have specials centered around BotW/Runes:
Neutral B- Arrows, make this much more mobile. Link can draw while moving, albeit with limited movement speed. Pulling in midair slows ascent, has diagonal downward trajectory (aim-able?)
Side B- Either Stasis, has limited range and must be aimed, think ranged Witch Time/Disable or Cryonis, creates a pillar that can be used as a shield
Down B- Bomb, drawing on the ground creates box bomb, air creates rolling bomb (or alternate draws)
Up B- Revali's Gale/Glider, decent upward range, player can glide afterwards, has a stamina meter that tells the player how long they can glide, can use Neutral B out of this.
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This is interesting. I considered mapping similar moves. However, I wanted the Special Moves to be mostly Runes rather than mixing in the key items from the Champions especially since those have longer cooldown in the game. I nixed Cryonis because I couldn't figure out a good way to implement it, and I'm justifying my choice because Cryonis requires water even though I cheated to fit Magnesis. A lot of my choices were meant to make Link less spammy with items so Arrows are situational after Evade and Remote Bombs have cooldown. I like the idea that Evade would have a risk reward factor: Arrows are faster but deal less damage while you're defenseless in Flurry Rush, and if you decide to do neither, Link can still use Standard Attacks though it's the slowest option.
Anyway, Travis Touchdown seems to be safe choice as the character has been Nintendo exclusive except for that port of the original Suda51 had nothing to do with. We know what happened the last time one of Sakurai's friends asked to have their character added. That said, I can't see Snake coming back or any Konami character being added (which includes Bomberman) if only out of Sakurai's respect for Hideo Kojima. As much as I'd like to see a Belmont, #fuckKonami.