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| Ian Sane:
--- Quote from: Caterkiller on July 31, 2023, 05:54:58 PM ---I know a lot of people don't like the new direction of a lot of Nintendo games but this is the kind of stuff I've wanted for ages. I want it bigger and grander. I can play 3D World in Odyssey and I can play Ocarina of Time in Tears of the Kingdom. I can't play Odyssey in 3D World and I can't play Totk in OoT. I can't imagine too many people look at it that way but the sales this generation speak for themselves. --- End quote --- In 1998, Ocarina of Time was Tears of the Kingdom. The first time I played it I thought it was the most grand ambitious game in the world. You actually play the notes on your ocarina! You can ride a horse! You plant seeds in the past and they grow in the future! But then for a while it was like Nintendo decided that Zelda wasn't going to expand much beyond that, which made no sense to me. I think back to the NES and SNES and us kids tended to regard videogames as an abstraction of a concept that you couldn't quite do with the hardware of the time but as time went on you got closer to it. I liken it to how the graphics in a game would be all pixelated but the characters on the box would be a detailed drawing. My assumption at the time was the box was what it was all supposed to look like, it just couldn't be done so you had to have a pixel art version to convey the general idea. So I didn't see the old Zelda games as some template to follow but more that they were trying to take the concept of a fantasy world where you travel the land and save the world and put it in videogame form. So Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom just feels like the series getting closer to fulfilling that concept. To keep it to some pre-sized bottle and say "Zelda goes no further than this" just makes no sense. |
| Caterkiller:
--- Quote from: Ian Sane on July 31, 2023, 07:35:00 PM --- In 1998, Ocarina of Time was Tears of the Kingdom. The first time I played it I thought it was the most grand ambitious game in the world. You actually play the notes on your ocarina! You can ride a horse! You plant seeds in the past and they grow in the future! But then for a while it was like Nintendo decided that Zelda wasn't going to expand much beyond that, which made no sense to me. I think back to the NES and SNES and us kids tended to regard videogames as an abstraction of a concept that you couldn't quite do with the hardware of the time but as time went on you got closer to it. I liken it to how the graphics in a game would be all pixelated but the characters on the box would be a detailed drawing. My assumption at the time was the box was what it was all supposed to look like, it just couldn't be done so you had to have a pixel art version to convey the general idea. --- End quote --- I remember you talking about this topic years ago and it always stuck with me. I more or less thought and felt the same just never put it into words. The disconnect between the art and the games really became apparent with the Gamecube. As much as I loved Wind Waker that's when I noticed that these 3D worlds don't seem as grand or "real" as even Zelda 2. In Adventure of Link I remember coming across these towns with people every where walking around and it just made it feel like a functioning society. If the game matched the art it would probably be like watching a scene from a cartoon. With Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword there were these superficial means to make the world seem vast. Lot's of empty and mostly boring space in-between the towns, sky islands, ocean, etc but the destinations themselves never seemed to evolve beyond these tiny little locals that made each game seem dated even back then. Seeing the homes of the Rito in WW and Zora in TP always broke the immersion for me. Why do they live in these little holes? Why do the vast majority of towns feel so cramped and unlivable? I never expected an open world or even knew what that really was back then but games like Grand Theft Auto 3 had me wondering why Zelda was consistently stuck with us exploring little theme parks title after title. With BotW and TotK the Zelda series feels genuinely epic again and the world has gladly taken notice. Zelda is a sales juggernaut now. |
| Luigi Dude:
It's not so much Nintendo stopped being ambitious, it's just they thought people preferred the dungeons and puzzles in the 3D games more then the exploration. That's why each game got more and more linear but the dungeons got bigger with more impressive set pieces through out. Something like Skyward Sword is insanely ambitious for what it was doing, an adventure game filled with motion controlled gameplay and the overworld being one giant dungeon. This is why even to this day, there are no other 3D games with area's like the dungeons in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. Nintendo was pushing the limits with interactivity in large environments and how the gameplay in one area effected the next. This is why when I finally played Okami for the first time 2 years ago, it was a massive disappointment. Seriously, this is the game people had been declaring secretly the best Zelda for years? The dungeons in Okami are all a bad joke compared to any of the 3D Zelda. Even Wind Waker which has some of the weakest dungeons in Zelda, is still lightyears ahead of the crap Okami tries to pass as a dungeon. From a design standpoint, what Nintendo was doing with the dungeons was far beyond what the rest of the industry was making not only at the time, but even to this day. It's just when another fantasy based adventure game called Skyrim came out at the same time and does over 20 million more in the same holiday season, Nintendo released that what the larger gaming audiences want was difference then what they thought. Before Skyrim, each new Zelda game sold comparable or better then other popular fantasy based games at the time. After Skyrim created such a huge gap, it finally made things pretty clear to Nintendo how to properly grow the series to a larger audience. |
| Caterkiller:
Oh is that right? That makes sense as it was the dungeons and puzzle solving that I originally did like the most. Today I certainly value the complex dungeons as much as I always did but as seeking them out became more linear the series grew stale for me. Still it's interesting to read that Nintendo's dungeon and puzzle concepts were so far ahead of everyone else's. I don't play much of anything else to know that first hand but what's interesting about that is how bored I became of Zelda puzzles beginning with the Wind Waker and lasting until Twilight Princess. Naturally Oot and MM's puzzles threw Jr High School Caterkiller for a loop. Link's Awakening for 2nd grade me was like trying to learn a new language lol. I'm sure they were absolutely the most complex puzzle systems for a time as that stuff used stump the ship out of me. By Wind Waker I remember being able to walk into a room and darn near with a single glance I understood exactly what needed to be done. I was conditioned to solve the puzzles before I even saw them. So the simpler puzzles of Wind Waker were a let down but over all the game was very enjoyable at the time. Twilight Princesses dungeons and puzzles are given so much praise but even then I just knew the answer to everything right away. Push a block, light a torch, guide the water this way and that. It's interesting to hear they were so complex compared to the wider industry but man to this day I find most of them so formulaic I could never bring myself to do a 2nd play through. Skyward Sword changed all that though. Those puzzles were so fresh and delightful for me. I really enjoyed those motion controls as well because thats what made so many of the puzzles so interesting. Of course those controls turned some people off after the motion craze died down. However I say the over all presentation was just as much of a turn off. Dated graphics, no voice acting(for better or worse) and a super linear, hand holdy progression system. Now that Zelda is as open as it once was on the NES, has a smidge of voice acting and an art style that doesn't feel super dated gives it more of a premium vibe. It's no wonder this has resonated with audiences. Then for puzzle lovers like me all that stasis and ultra hand stuff littered about the world in small doses was just what the doctor ordered. The massive audience doesn't seem to come for the complex dungeons alone. Giving people the open air surrounding the story and puzzles seems to be a massively winning formula for now. Zelda has a premium look again. |
| Enner:
Japan Numbers! https://www.installbaseforum.com/forums/threads/media-create-sales-week-30-2023-jul-24-jul-30.1846/ TOP GAME: 01./01. [NSW] Pikmin 4 <ACT> (Nintendo) {2023.07.21} (¥5.980) - 115.697 / 517.550 <80-100%> (-71%) Famitsu Sales: Week 31, 2023 (Jul 24 - Jul 30) 01./01. [NSW] Pikmin 4 <ACT> (Nintendo) {2023.07.21} (¥5.980) - 115.697 / 517.550 <80-100%> (-71%) 02./00. [NSW] Natsu-Mon! 20th Century Summer Vacation <ADV> (Spike Chunsoft) {2023.07.28} (¥5.980) - 18.267 / NEW <60-80%> 03./02. [NSW] The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2023.05.12} (¥7.200) - 14.749 / 1.789.784 <80-100%> (-6%) 04./03. [NSW] Mario Kart 8 Deluxe <RCE> (Nintendo) {2017.04.28} (¥5.980) - 11.440 / 5.396.462 <80-100%> (+6%) 05./06. [NSW] Minecraft # <ADV> (Microsoft Game Studios) {2018.06.21} (¥3.600) - 7.597 / 3.207.597 <80-100%> (+1%) 06./00. [NSW] Crymachina # <RPG> (FuRyu) {2023.07.27} (¥7.980) - 7.417 / NEW <60-80%> 07./00. [NSW] Disney Illusion Island <ACT> (Disney Interactive Studios) {2023.07.28} (¥4.980) - 7.172 / NEW <40-60%> 08./08. [NSW] Nintendo Switch Sports # <SPT> (Nintendo) {2022.04.29} (¥4.980) - 5.782 / 1.137.427 <80-100%> (+0%) 09./07. [NSW] Splatoon 3 <ACT> (Nintendo) {2022.09.09} (¥5.980) - 5.609 / 4.071.959 <80-100%> (-11%) 10./00. [PS5] Crymachina # <RPG> (FuRyu) {2023.07.27} (¥7.980) - 5.228 / NEW <60-80%> 11./10. [NSW] Super Smash Bros. Ultimate # <FTG> (Nintendo) {2018.12.07} (¥7.200) - 5.157 / 5.244.657 <80-100%> (+6%) 12./12. [NSW] Ring Fit Adventure # <HOB> (Nintendo) {2019.10.18} (¥7.980) - 4.631 / 3.428.016 <80-100%> (+8%) 13./11. [NSW] Pokemon Scarlet / Violet # <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2022.11.18} (¥5.980) - 4.414 / 5.081.044 <80-100%> (-5%) 14./13. [NSW] Animal Crossing: New Horizons # <ETC> (Nintendo) {2020.03.20} (¥5.980) - 4.127 / 7.502.049 <80-100%> (-2%) 15./14. [NSW] Mario Party Superstars <ETC> (Nintendo) {2021.10.29} (¥5.980) - 3.822 / 1.268.802 <80-100%> (+10%) 16./09. [PS5] Final Fantasy XVI # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2023.06.22} (¥9.000) - 3.513 / 404.889 <80-100%> (-28%) 17./00. [NSW] Hayarigami 1-2-3 Pack <Hayarigami: Police Department Mystery Files \ Hayarigami 2: Police Department Mystery Files \ Hayarigami 3: Police Department Mystery Files> <ADV> (Nippon Ichi Software) {2023.07.27} (¥5.980) - 3.182 / NEW <60-80%> 18./15. [NSW] Momotaro Dentetsu: Showa, Heisei, Reiwa mo Teiban! <TBL> (Konami) {2020.11.19} (¥6.300) - 3.071 / 2.898.896 <80-100%> (-2%) 19./17. [NSW] Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe <ACT> (Nintendo) {2023.02.24} (¥5.980) - 2.659 / 465.176 <80-100%> (-2%) 20./00. [PS4] Crymachina # <RPG> (FuRyu) {2023.07.27} (¥7.980) - 2.611 / NEW <60-80%> 21./19. [NSW] Clubhouse Games: 51 Worldwide Classics <ETC> (Nintendo) {2020.06.05} (¥3.980) - 2.463 / 1.142.233 <80-100%> (+2%) 22./24. [NSW] Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury <ACT> (Nintendo) {2021.02.12} (¥5.980) - 2.418 / 1.171.028 <80-100%> (+29%) 23./23. [NSW] Taiko no Tatsujin: Rhythm Festival <ACT> (Bandai Namco Entertainment) {2022.09.22} (¥5.980) - 2.294 / 194.472 <80-100%> (+11%) 24./30. [NSW] eBaseball Power Pros 2022 <SPT> (Konami) {2022.04.21} (¥7.500) - 2.264 / 282.167 <80-100%> (+41%) 25./22. [NSW] The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild # <ADV> (Nintendo) {2017.03.03} (¥6.980) - 2.169 / 2.230.518 <80-100%> (-2%) 26./04. [NSW] Nobunaga’s Ambition: Awakening <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) {2023.07.20} (¥10.800) - 2.133 / 12.766 <80-100%> (-80%) 27./27. [NSW] Kirby and the Forgotten Land <ACT> (Nintendo) {2022.03.25} (¥5.980) - 1.915 / 1.045.315 <80-100%> (+13%) 28./28. [NSW] New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe <New Super Mario Bros. U \ New Super Luigi U> <ACT> (Nintendo) {2019.01.11} (¥5.980) - 1.840 / 1.278.762 <80-100%> (+13%) 29./05. [PS4] Nobunaga’s Ambition: Awakening <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) {2023.07.20} (¥10.800) - 1.759 / 12.193 <60-80%> (-83%) 30./29. [NSW] Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 [Special Price] <PZL> (Sega) {2022.11.17} (¥3.500) - 1.731 / 78.148 <80-100%> (+7%) Top 30 NSW - 26 PS4 - 2 PS5 - 2 HARDWARE --- Code: ---+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ |System | This Week | Last Week | Last Year | YTD | Last YTD | LTD | +-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ | NSW # | 78.326 | 71.180 | 73.238 | 2.349.462 | 2.552.670 | 30.073.509 | | PS5 # | 53.211 | 46.561 | 39.336 | 1.669.177 | 580.646 | 4.046.566 | | XBS # | 1.846 | 1.158 | 8.988 | 77.021 | 154.367 | 475.416 | | PS4 # | 784 | 4.309 | 14 | 48.906 | 562 | 9.466.673 | | 3DS # | 18 | 22 | 87 | 2.257 | 8.699 | 24.600.154 | +-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ | ALL | 134.185 | 123.230 | 121.663 | 4.146.823 | 3.296.944 | 69.854.286 | +-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ | PS5 | 46.774 | 42.967 | 36.237 | 1.435.382 | 519.544 | 3.495.327 | | PS5DE | 6.437 | 3.594 | 3.099 | 233.795 | 61.102 | 551.239 | | XBS X | 1.653 | 1.078 | 7.093 | 34.143 | 61.602 | 206.554 | | XBS S | 193 | 80 | 1.895 | 42.878 | 92.765 | 268.862 | |NSWOLED| 56.212 | 47.940 | 42.355 | 1.595.751 | 1.325.591 | 5.167.763 | | NSW L | 7.571 | 8.425 | 10.394 | 329.741 | 416.241 | 5.433.435 | | NSW | 14.543 | 14.815 | 20.489 | 423.970 | 810.838 | 19.472.311 | | PS4 | 784 | 4.309 | 14 | 48.906 | 562 | 7.890.950 | |n-2DSLL| 18 | 22 | 87 | 2.257 | 8.699 | 1.205.209 | +-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+ --- End code --- Natsu-mon, Crymachina, and Disney Illusion Island debut in the charts. Switch crosses 30 million units sold in Japan. |
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