Messages

176

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Official Wii Sales Thread

« on: December 23, 2009, 10:12:25 AM »

Actually Kairon, the MMORPG FF games horribly underperform and I'm surprised S-E wanted to do another one after FFXI basicaly did a 4 year long bomb.

Except where SE stated that in order to turn a profit, they needed 500,000 dedicated subscribers worldwide.  For those four years, I believe they averages over 3 million worldwide.  So how is that a bomb?  I believe they still have over a million players subscribing continuously.

I dunno where you got that information, because apparently S-E only claimed around 2 million as of April this year.  And they also only claim 500,000 current subscribers.  (I looked on Wikipedia.)

And the game's on like 4 platforms so it's not really impressive.  There's also the sunk cost of having to hire people just to run servers and have developers make upgrades and the missed opportunity costs of having those people work on new product.

I don't think it's all that profitable, to be honest.  Definitely not more than anything else they've done.

177

TalkBack / Re: Miyamoto Cites Uniqueness as Key Principle

« on: December 23, 2009, 10:03:02 AM »

You claim CDs had nothing to do with the N64's failure, yet it is exactly CDs that led to the larger library and subsequent install base.  Square and others were able to push the cinematic games they wanted only on the PS1, and that's what many gamers flocked to.

I disagree, because that had more to do with the PS1 getting something of a 2 year head start on the N64 and having a huge install base before your competition even exists has more to do with it than media choice.  CDs were a convenient explanation, but Squaresoft didn't make Sega CD games, now did they?  Also, CD-ROM systems were an absolute disaster all the way before hand, and Nintendo's failed deal with Sony for the Playstation sort of sealed it for them.  Sony may have hit gold with the PS1, but that's more due to having a larger install base to begin with before the N64 released than the CD.

The DS vs. PSP isn't a fair media comparison because the CD size dwarfed the N64 ROM size much more than UMD does the DS.

That's actually not true.  N64 carts went from 4-64 MB to CD's 750 MB.  DS Cards range from 8-512 MB to the UMD's 1.8 GB.  UMD's have a greater than one gigabyte advantage to the very best of the DS, and even with the potential for a 1 GB DS Card, the UMD still wins by 100 MB or so.

How do you think the PS1 got the huge library and install base?  Nintendo goes from having the strongest third party support to having the weakest immediately after releasing a cartridge based system to compete with CD systems.  Cartridges are noticably more expensive to produce.  Do you honestly think that that is a coincidence?  Why else did all the third parties jump ship seemingly overnight?  And the large install base I think is pretty clearly tied together with the large library.  Everyone saw all their favourite games jump from Nintendo to the Playstation and went along with it.

Well, Ian, explain DS vs. PSP.  I can.  DS won a much larger install base than the PSP and that's basically all there is to it really.

I agree that what Sony and Microsoft does with their console subsidies is ridiculous.  On the other hand, Nintendo is sitting on a mountain of money and could afford to do more if they wanted.

I don't think anybody is saying that here.  We're just saying that they could do both: focus on innovating, but also acknowledge and utilize innovation of others.

I think they will in the future.  They have significantly more money to risk on all the little bells and whistles next time.  Remember we're discussing things they decided around 2004-2005 when they probably weren't even sure the DS would compete favorably with the PSP.  This was Nintendo at its weakest right before their meteoric rise in profits.  Around that time they were spending something like $150-$200 million in R&D.  Their current budget states something like $450-$500 million.  Assuming that's not the development of videogames, half a billion dollars is mighty beefy for their future, especially at lower prices.  Remember, you win a game of chicken by not driving off the cliff. You don't have come as close to the edge as possible.

178

General Gaming / Re: The smartest person on the Internet

« on: December 23, 2009, 09:17:48 AM »

Malstrom had better watch it.  Dyack could easily sue him for libel and slander based on that post.

Apparently, You can't even get banned from a forum for slander or libel these days.

Slander or libel have to have proven irreparable damages, and Dyack can't prove that Malstrom has affected him in any way.

179

General Gaming / Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'

« on: December 23, 2009, 09:11:55 AM »

Can we please not turn this into yet another sales thread?  Thanks.

It'll keep coming up as long they keep forecasting doom and gloom without regard for the sales.

180

General Gaming / Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

« on: December 23, 2009, 09:05:18 AM »

Oh man, you really crack me up.  Going through all ten games with the same fervor as Matlock.  I'm not going to bother responding to each one.

Hey, I'm not the one who brought up a top ten list, bub.  You don't have to respond, anyway.  You didn't even look at them in the first place.

I was making the simple point that some people don't need waggle in their Mario Galaxy.

No, you said the game would have controlled the same or better with a regular console. It's only a few posts up, go read it.  Or here, I'll do it, "And yes, they all would have worked great on a regular controller, even better for many."  The very critics you cite disagree, and rated Mario Galaxy higher than Mario Sunshine and Mario 64.

Looking over that list, its painfully clear that all ten can be played and/or developed for play without a Wiimote.

Nice sleight of hand, but you distinctly said a "regular controller," (In fact, it's right up there)  Unless plastic guitars are now "regular," which would be a pretty bad double standard to have.  Rockband or Guitar Hero can be played with a regular controller, but if you went around saying it could and "people would have liked it better that way," then they'll call you names, because the critics and the market disagree with you, as shown by regular Rockband sales/reviews and the absolutely horrid sales/reviews of Rockband Unplugged, with normal control scheme.  Yeah some prefer it to the plastic guitar, as "horrid sales" are still a few sales, but it's not enough to matter.

And for some gamers, this makes the experience better, as depending on the game, its not worth straining yourself to get the motions right as opposed to kicking back on the couch.

Yeah some gamers like it better.  So?  Some gamers liked digital d-pad controls over analog.  Some gamers hate online and want single player.  Some gamers like X over Y.  But even if it is his opinion, it doesn't override the majority opinion that motion controls have vastly improved either the review scores and sales.  This isn't about "preference."  It's about whether motion control is a worthwhile innovation or a "useless novetly" and the market (and critics apparently) feel that motion control is the former, and so do MS and Sony because they're busy trying to copy it.  And LOL "strain."  Whatever, dude.

And considering Suda thinks its a good idea to release one of the most Wii-native games on the PS3/360, I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Just because Marvelous as a company wants to port No More Heroes doesn't mean Suda's like "I have seen the error of my ways on motion control and wish to make amends.  I am absolutely certain this game will sell million more on the PS3."  He was probably too busy making NMH2 to even care.  It's like saying "Obviously Shinji Mikami thinks it's a good idea to downport RE4 to the PS2" like he's on the board of directors and was his decision or something.  (The game was released after he left the company.)

If you prefer you games with waggle, that's great.  But just because some folks in the minority do not, its no reason to get so worked up.

Well I'm sorry you feel debate is "getting worked up" but next time try not citing something that deliberately contradicts your point.  If you don't like it, you don't have to participate.

So anyway, Sony's Wagglotron.  Considering the caustic hatred that "waggle" is apparently getting even right here, does anybody think Sony's Motion Controller will even get off the ground anywhere, even if 3rd parties get behind it?  They'd have to make better motion games than Nintendo and that's just not likely.  They can barely make competitive games without motion.

181

General Gaming / Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

« on: December 22, 2009, 11:46:11 AM »

I really don't think Nintendo will revisit the Mario Sunshine universe again considering how much the game flopped,

It's certainly not a flop by today's standards.  6 million is more than a lot of games sell these days.  But you are correct, Wiimote pointing would have helped Sunshine immensely.

182

General Gaming / Re: Microsoft's Project Natal

« on: December 22, 2009, 11:41:20 AM »

Well that doesn't sound good.  Is it actually possible that UBISoft can find a way to make a worse game for the Natal than their worst for the Wii, just because of this technical issue?

183

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Official Wii Sales Thread

« on: December 22, 2009, 11:36:10 AM »

Competition in the MMORPG market is very unforgiving.  Also, the games tend to be black holes that suck away interest from other titles.  WoW players might be willing to try out a new game, but they'll typically gravitate back to WoW.

The worst part about MMORPGs is that the company who makes it has to keep spending time and money making new content, and when you have an unpopular one (like FFXI) That can turn what appears to be constant revenue into constant loss.

184

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Official Wii Sales Thread

« on: December 22, 2009, 07:43:56 AM »

Actually Kairon, the MMORPG FF games horribly underperform and I'm surprised S-E wanted to do another one after FFXI basicaly did a 4 year long bomb.

185

TalkBack / Re: Miyamoto Cites Uniqueness as Key Principle

« on: December 22, 2009, 07:41:30 AM »

If I may ask, exactly how successful with an idea does Nintendo have to be before any of their ideas becomes the "convention" or "standard?"  Because we certainly ask Nintendo to conform to a whole lot of stuff when it's their things that are more successful than the status quo this time.

I saw CD as one of the technologies Nintendo refused to comply to.  However, they originally refused on the ground that loading times would hurt the game experience, which is why when they finally "complied" they did so in ways that would reduce these loading times as much as possible.  Only on the Wii do we see Nintendo games even remotely flirt with the standard amount of loading time.  It's critical to understand that CDs had nothing to do with the N64's failure against the PS1.  PS1 beat the N64 simply because of library and install base.  You can see the converse of this with DS and PSP, where it was theorized the Carts vs CDs would repeat itself, except in this instance the carts won.

I think sometimes we demand too much from companies, which is our prerogative, but there comes a point where sometimes we demand that they financially go into the red just because technology or competition demands it.  And I think it's a lot wiser when they rebuff or delay to grab the technology when it's priced right instead of cutting themselves on the bleeding edge, particularly when said bleeding edge is actually killing your competition.

Also, and to close, I think we do Nintendo a great disservice when we completely discount their actual technological advances because a few don't like them or the rest of the industry wanted to do something else.  Before 2006, we had no motion controllers at all.  3 years later, thanks solely to Nintendo, we have motion controllers that follow our every move.  This IS a great leap in technology.  And it's certainly newer to gamers than HD (which PC gamers had enjoyed for years) and more robust online system (enjoyed by Dreamcast players.)  These things are nice and will come in the future (and before anybody says it, Nintendo will not be "copying" these technologies.  Microsoft and Sony did not invent HD graphics or online, and it is not hypocritical for Nintendo fans to simply not value them as much as motion controls), but I'm glad Nintendo's not bankrupting themselves like Sony or throwing billions into the hole for it, because they, and truly all of us, will benefit more in the long run.

186

TalkBack / Re: Dragon Quest IX Now Top Seller in Series

« on: December 22, 2009, 06:52:13 AM »

If I may enter a small correction.  Dragon Quest VII is a PS1 title.

187

General Gaming / Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

« on: December 22, 2009, 02:22:35 AM »

The best of the Wii could have been done on a normal controller with only a few minor tweaks.

Well that's just wrong.  There is zero chance that Wii Sports Resort could have been done on a regular controller.  Period.

Pretty sure Ian is referring to obvious critical hits like Mario Galaxy, SSBB, Mario Kart, Mario 5, ect..  And yes, they all would have worked great on a regular controller, even better for many.  The top ten on Metacritic for Wii all are, or could be running on a console.  This is strange for a console who's core identity is "motion".

Curious Metroid missed the cut there as its controls severely stomped the previous two on consoles.  And Wii Fit, too.  But yeah, some of those games could have been on *ahem* "consoles."  (Did you mean console controller?)  Some games could have been made without HD resolutions or online features too. 

Just what are the top ten anyway?  I hope all of them apply, it'd be pretty embarrassing if even one didn't.

1. Super Mario Galaxy  -  You could argue that, but the game did have parts where you controlled things with the motion controller. You could say "better on a regular controller" but the very same critics don't agree and rated this game    higher than Mario 64.  Go figure.
2. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, The  -  The only actual GC port on the list, and one that has been on a controller.  Curious this version sold more, though.
3. World of Goo -  How in the blue blazes could this have been played on a controller?  The only other version is for the PC and it's mouse-based.  Better on a controller?  Fail.
4. Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Yes, here's one that can be played on a controller.  Better?  Maybe, maybe not.  But most fighting games get sold with expensive Arcade sticks for people who "swear" they control better than the regular controller.  Most people roll their eyes at them, though.
5. Rock Band 2 - How is THIS a console controller?  So motion controllers don't add anything but big plastic fake instruments do? And played better on a controller?  And would it have sold or been reviewed better with regular controllers?  Ask Rock Band Unplugged.  Also, epic fail.
6. Metroid Prime Trilogy -  And no way, not even the critics you are citing groupthink style agree with you on this, this game stomps the previous versions in control.
7. Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition - Ditto here.  Playing this game makes playing the old GC one and especially RE5 a pain in the ass.
8. Okami - Yes, this one has been played on a regular controller before.  It is a PS2 port, after all.
9. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption -  How about I skip this one?  We've covered this one.
10.  Beatles: Rock Band, The -  More plastic guitars?  How about I go down two more to get past the repeats?
11. Guitar Hero 5 - *sigh*
12. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 - Hitting buttons is better than swinging the club?  Not even you think so.

So really, only a few games can be considered "better" on a controller, and those happen to be built with it in mind, GC or PS2 ports, to be specific.  The rest, when made with the Wiimote (or plastic guitar controllers) in mind, are better games than their forefathers including control which the majority of those reviews actually aggregated by metacritic state. (Particularly RE4) And when you say "even better," apparently both the crtitics you just cited and the gamers at large don't agree, so...

Oh there I went again, doing more research into your own point than you did.  When I heard Ian say the "best of Wii" I didn't immediately think review aggregators for some reason.  I thought about the best games on the Wii that use motion controls, and none of them could be done, at all, on a regular controller (since that's the point of the thread anyway).  And then you pull metacritic up like it means something and...  Well, it just didn't pan out, did it?

... and hold on.  "Mario 5?"  Do you mean NSMB Wii?  I never heard it called "Mario 5" outside of Sean Malstrom.  I thought you hated that guy and his opinions?  Keep your friends close and enemies closer, eh?

(And sorry everybody.  It's just when something gets cited that is purported to say one thing and actually says the complete opposite, it's sort of necessary to point it out.  I'll try to refrain from TEXTBLAWKS in the future)

188

General Gaming / Re: The smartest person on the Internet

« on: December 21, 2009, 08:36:13 PM »

MYTH: Super Mario Brothers 2 and Zelda 2 were not well received by Mario and Zelda fans.
FACT: Mario 2 and Zelda 2 were sold out everywhere. Parents drove to other states just to get the games. Mario 2 and Zelda 2 may not have been the phenomenons the first ones were, but they were so well received that elements of both games found their ways into the sequels. For Mario 2 this was remarkable since it was actually Doki Doki Panic. To this day, people demand princess to be included in Mario 5 and that she float solely because of the impact of Mario 2.

I'm sorry but I just have to chime in on this and say Malstrom might want to study the sales he cites a bit more.  Zelda II bled like a third of the customers who bought Zelda 1, causing it to be the 3rd worst selling Zelda in the series, beaten out only by Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask.  Aonuma's games have trounced this game into the dirt and until one he directs sells less than Zelda II, Malstrom's got nothing but nostalgia on his side.

189

General Gaming / Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

« on: December 21, 2009, 08:21:36 PM »

The best of the Wii could have been done on a normal controller with only a few minor tweaks.

Well that's just wrong.  There is zero chance that Wii Sports Resort could have been done on a regular controller.  Period.

I think mostly my shock at the sudden retroactive love for GameCube was that most of the intense criticism it suffered had to do with market position and sometimes "kiddy games" was thrown around.  Now the criticism is that it's gimmicky or "destroying videogames" or some other boring nonsense.  And furthermore, Nintendo's output has been more or less identical on the Wii and GC, aside from the "Wii ____" games.  And considering the GC wasn't exactly a font of third party effort, The only difference I see is that the Wii is more popular and that it's popularity is the thing that annoys its critics as opposed to the GC's unpopularity.

But you do bring up a fascinating conundrum.  How can Sony convince video game buyers that their motion control is better than Nintendo's when they've spent the last three years mocking motion controls and getting their fans to join in, and they don't have anything interesting planned at all (Just based on the list.  I mean "Motion Party?"), and they already tried a motion controller on the PS3 which failed so badly they made patches for games to use regular controllers?

Seems like a wasted investment to me.

190

General Gaming / Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'

« on: December 21, 2009, 09:01:06 AM »

I know.  I said that.  But despite selling well, it didn't save the company.

A similar thing happened to Midway.  Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe sold something like 2.5 million copies, which would have been a great success except then Midway filed for bankruptcy and barely exists as of now.

When companies can have million-selling titles and still die/get absorbed... that's just not healthy.

191

General Gaming / Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately

« on: December 21, 2009, 07:04:41 AM »

Yeah I think you got what I meant.

I think one thing Sony might want to look into is not taking franchises from the PS3 downward.  For one you can't graphick your way out of a shallow game experience on the handheld.  Nobody is a handheld graphics enthusiast.  And for two it may hurt the brand of whatever you are taking downward, if it is true that people only bought the PS3 version for graphics.

Take LittleBigPlanet for instance, a muted success on the PS3 turned bonafide bomb on the PSP.  Or Resistance: Liberation.  (Or was that Killzone: Liberation?)

Another thing, and this is critical for any future handhelds (and maybe their only next system).  Do not emphasize non-gaming features.  If your next handheld uses another Trojan Horse media format and you demonstrate it with "Pocket-sized High Definition Movies"  and another slate of titles that are just PS2/PS3 downports, you are going to fail harder than this time.

And don't even think of doing Digital Distribution agai-  On second thought, go ahead.  Do it again.  Please.

192

General Gaming / Re: Sony getting hit Hard lately

« on: December 21, 2009, 04:19:58 AM »

Yeah I was wondering when Sony would catch up to the rest of the industry instead of selfishly holding out with gimmicky distribution systems nobody cares about.

193

General Gaming / Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'

« on: December 21, 2009, 02:57:51 AM »

Valkyria Chronicles; Tales of Vesperia; LittleBigPlanet; Uncharted 1 & 2; Batman: Arkham Asylum; all 3 Ratchet & Clank Futures; Eternal Sonata; Heavy Rain; Final Fantasy XIII; Bioshocks 1 & 2; and Dead Space all say "hello."  And that's just counting the retail games I can think of off the top of my head.

Well if I were to use a popular troll's schtick, it would be that those games don't sell more than the "brown" games, so it doesn't matter if they exist or not. Or maybe I'd pick the worst selling of the lot and use that as the whole argument (Valkyria Chronicles/)  And the 360 and PS3 do have the public perception of brown and excess of bloom lighting, and deserved or not, it is an issue they'll have to deal with if they want to break out of their financial woes.  And most of those games, while maybe somewhat successful in units sold, didn't generate a lot of money.  In fact, a few of them drove the developers either into the hands of acquisition (Batman) and some were flung off the platform entirely (Valkyria).  It's pretty stark, color doesn't sell on the 360 or PS3.  At least not as much as brown.

But, on the other hand, apparently it's OK to assume all the Wii games and gamers are "casual," even when those "casual" games sell worse on the Wii than the colorful ones on the 360 and PS3.  Go figure.

Peachylala did make a crass generalization, but he is just a forum guy.  It's not like he's some sort of professional journalist.  Now if a professional journalist out there did make crass generalizations like that, I can't say many people would want to pay for the privilege of hearing about stuff they didn't have to leave their own forums or blogs for.

194

General Gaming / Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'

« on: December 20, 2009, 01:07:31 AM »

These are the sort of stories this thread should be covering, not whining about every editorial that crosses the web that's critical of Nintendo.

They don't exist in a vacuum, though.  It's not like the New York Times where you have a few opinion piece writers and 350+ staff writers.  It would be hard to keep them all on the same agenda, so to speak, and they cover everything.  And since it has colored their reporting before, it's certainly withing the realm of possibility to still be continuing.

Not saying I believe everything I read, but when it comes to opinion pieces, especially from places that have been under the radar as long as IGN, I simply don't believe that they intentionally write opinion pieces to push some anti-Nintendo agenda.

Who knows why?  I'd like to think that's their opinion, because it would certainly be food for thought, but when they've already had trouble differentiating between their editorial and news, it's certainly well within the realm of possibility that it's payback for not "playing ball."  And even not for financial reasons, even if they are just bitter fanboys, they should realize that, even if it is their own opinion, they are still writing pieces for their readers to read.  It should still be a professionally done article and not some kind of drunken rant.  Because nobody wants to pay IGN for that when they get enough of it for free elsewhere.

This isn't to say that Nintendo is above criticism or should never be criticized, but even harsh criticisms or reproaches should still be done in a professional manner, and not read like they just lifted stuff out of their forums.  They're supposed to be better than that, not just well-paid versions of the same.

195

General Gaming / Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

« on: December 19, 2009, 08:49:32 PM »

Even worse, both Natal and GEM will almost assuredly have lesser install bases than the Wiimote or even the Motion+.  If 3rd parties phone it in with 60-70 million, just imagine their efforts trying to win over 5 million combined or so.

196

General Gaming / Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'

« on: December 19, 2009, 08:47:56 PM »

When delivering an editorial, they can say whatever they want so long as it is actually their own opinion.

Well that's the issue.  Is it their opinion or are they fishing for kickbacks?

The press aren't reporting untrue news about Nintendo: it has continually sold well over the past few years, and the press have reported these facts consistently.  If they were doing otherwise and allowing editorial to influence their news reporting, then they wouldn't be doing their jobs.

Actually they have let their editorial biases conflict their reporting before.  Back when it was in vogue to slam the DS for being a "Virtual Boy," they had some pretty slanted reporting of the Japanese launch of both the DS and PSP.  They chose some out of the way camera store with three guys standing outside as the "DS launch" and a goodly sized queue from mainstreet Tokyo for the "PSP Launch."  However, the numbers clearly showed the DS clocked the PSP and there were pictures of gigantic lines for the DS that dwarfed the PSP Line.  It was pretty embarrassing when they got caught doing that, and they haven't really explained why they did it.  But even without evidence, who would trust their news-reporting if the people that were their editors or managers are fishing for money with editorial "hit pieces?"

It's not ignorant to think IGN is trying to use the strength of their readership as fuel for their bully pulpit.  It makes you a critical consumer of media.

197

General Gaming / Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'

« on: December 19, 2009, 12:52:07 PM »

Certainly says something about the attitude of the "professional" games press, huh?  "Pay up or we'll write mean things on the internet."

198

General Gaming / Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

« on: December 19, 2009, 12:46:48 PM »

Such gimmicks like the standard controller.

An interesting thought about third parties and this new motion controller from Sony.  Who thinks anything worthwhile will actually come from them when they can't even make decent Wii games 3 years in?  I mean, you know the TYPES of games they've made for the Wii... is anybody really optimistic that they'll do any different on the PS3 with this?

199

General Gaming / Re: The PATHETIC state of the gaming 'media'

« on: December 19, 2009, 07:20:27 AM »

I don't know if IGN has a FoxNews-like agenda or anything like that.  If they aren't trolling for hits to beef up their advertising rates, they could be threatening Nintendo with the bully pulpit unless they get some kind of payoff from them or something.

All I know is they aren't doing their jobs.  For instance, they have pretty high access to publishers, and I'm sure their readers would like to ask why third parties make such awful games when they are universally reviled and they don't sell, despite their "understanding of the Wii market".   But they don't, they usually just lob leading softballs and parrot whatever the publisher says.  That could be because they don't want to ruin the media relationship, but what that means we get instead is a spineless media who won't stand up to anybody, unless they aren't being advertised to, of course.  And as the economy puts the squeeze on more, they'll be even less willing to ask hard questions of the people paying them and more willing to grind down on the people who aren't.

200

General Gaming / Re: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

« on: December 19, 2009, 06:48:48 AM »

Yeah.  I guess you're right.  Punch Out is a core game, and it certainly cleaned up at retail this year.

You do realize last time any data was shown, Punch Out sold over 400,000 copies after it's third month on the NPD?  It dropped out of the top 20 in it's 4th month, but games out of the top 20 can still put up numbers up to 100K depending on the month.  Unless Punch Out stopped selling completely after it's 3rd month, it could easily be anywhere between 500-800K in North America right now.  Considering that the Punch Out series was dead for 15 years, these numbers are great.  Hell, if Punch Out Wii continues to have good legs, it could end up breaking the million mark, something the previous game, Super Punch Out, never did.

Really now, if your going to pick a Nintendo game at least make sure it actually did poorly.  Like Excitebots, that is a Nintendo game that bombed horribly.  Of course we all now the reason why that game bombed and it wasn't because their wasn't an audience for it.  Luckily Reggie remembered to actually advertise and build up hype for Punch Out which is why it sold well, unlike Excitebots.

Oh, don't use facts on the troll, Luigi Dude.  He'll never read it anyway or absorb the info anyway.  He just wants to sound clever and fashion himself as some sort of "fanboy hammer" or something.  You already put more thought into it than he did.

About Sony's Motion Controller and 3D TV... if they seriously think they should ask people to upgrade their TVs... again, then they're pretty damn crazy.  And it's not like their gaming division has a lot of money to throw around anyway, so I doubt this is their path.  Unless they ARE crazy and want to fund another expensive boondoggle like Cell.

EDIT: And, excuse me but may I interject with a "what the blazing ****?" about this rose-colored nostalgia some of you guys have with the GameCube?  Do you guys not remember just how hated it was, especially here?  Did you not remember the almost daily bullcrap about online gameplay over and over, the failed connectivity games, the blistering editorials every quarter about how Nintendo should appeal to adults with "mature games?"  I agree with Sixth.  It's pretty amazing what's been forgotten about the GC is such a short time.