Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Tanooki on April 14, 2004, 03:39:09 AM
Title: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Tanooki on April 14, 2004, 03:39:09 AM
If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
As all of you probably know by now, Silicon Knights and Nintendo have mutually agreed to end their exclusivity with each other. That much is fact. But, hypothetically, if Nintendo now could acquire one, and only one new 3rd party developer out there to fill in the void, who would you guys pick? Capcom's always been my personal favorite 3rd party developer, but what Nintendo lacks the most perhaps, are big multi-million selling RPG's. The company that'd best fill in that void would be Square-Enix, (in my opinion). This is really just a "What If" scenario, but which 3rd party do you guys think is the most valuable to have, exclusivly for one console. And if you want, you can replace Nintendo, and fill in Sony or Microsoft when responding. E3 in less than 1 month! Wooooo!
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 14, 2004, 03:51:16 AM
activision, midway, taito comin like what to nintendo 2004. blol i'm serious too
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 03:51:37 AM
3DO. Because we all know the Army Men games are the best games ever made. Super Mario Sunshine was a massive rip-off of Army Men 17: Sarge's Tropical Adventure in Tan Land. SMS even stole Sarge's "It'sa me, Sarge" catchphrase.
I hope that one day, Nintendo will grow up and start following 3DO's footsteps, because they're footsteps worthy of GODS. Remember that SNES game? GODS? No? Oh well. It was better than Nintendo, and it was on a Nintendo. What a sexy situation.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 14, 2004, 03:54:26 AM
was also on Amiga 500, which currently has better install base than Nintendo cause they are doomed.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 04:03:01 AM
I should sell my GameCube to gather funds for an Amiga 500. Seriously, I'd need to do that. I assume they'd go for lots on eBay, but it'd be worth it in the long run, because we all know any game on the Amiga is better than what Nintendo makes.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 14, 2004, 04:10:15 AM
better like what. Amiga 500 has DIGITAL SOUND not like third rate (more like 50th rate, am i rite or what lol) gamecube.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 04:18:33 AM
Zool with DIGITAL SOUND > Eternal Darkness (olol I never liked SK anyways!!!1) Seriously though, who made Zool? Nintendo needs them on board, and they need to make a new Zool. 2D thanks, none of this 3D crap Nintendo does (Super Mario 64, more like Tron am I right or am I right).
CHUPA CHUP LOGOS IN ZOOL FOREVER. *Raises fist to the heavens*
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Mario on April 14, 2004, 04:27:15 AM
They should "replace" SK with EA (omg SKEA it's a subtle hint from Dyack that he's gonna develop a skiing game with sony lol wot a GOD u herd it hear 1th) , and then force them to replace all the real people in Madden and Fifa and NBA and Joe Gas Station Sport #15 with Pokemon. Then Harry Potter could make a guest appearance in a Duck Hunt remake co-developed by Konami, as a result of this Solid Snake would appear as the skater from down the street in an exclusive The Sims game for DS. Then Tiger Woods would team up with Mario and they'd invent a new type of memory card that lets you save your game. Lord of the Rings e-reader cards will become the rage with cool gamers everywhere. SSX and 1080 would combine to form SSX1080, the sequel to SSX1079 coming out like what two days. James Bond will be exclusively back with Nintendo, with his new adventure in the Mushroom Kingdom where he must SAVE the real world from becoming colourful and fun. EA will develop a realistic Zelda/Medal of Honor crossover that will feature Link with a gun, which he won't use because he's a man now, he has a machine gun, and has to save the world from generic character models and win the war against creativity. Then after EA only makes 862 billion dollars for Nintendo, Nintendo will decide they aren't worth keeping and sell them to Silicon Knights in exchange for the packet of donuts sitting on Denis Dyacks desk, which Nintendo will soon find out, is empty. =O
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 04:34:02 AM
Link with a gun is the best thing ever, trust EA to think of something awesome like that. Here we have Nintendo farting away on garbage like cartoon kiddy super waterslide Wind Waker, while EA are busting all the moves with Medal of Honor: Link VS Hitler. I'm quite serious, Nintendo make dumb games, EA should buy them out and force them to work on Pong DX with SK.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: yellowfellow on April 14, 2004, 05:02:59 AM
maybe nintendo is replacing them with "Silikon Night", a small software company based out of Thailand. With a staff of 60 people headed by an inspirational genius known only as, "Dennis Dyak", they can churn out any rip-off product just a bit after any of the competition and no one can tell it's a knock-off. Development times are halved and with only 1.18X the number of bugs found in the original. and since work is being contracted out to this new 2nd party, they are more cost effective. yup, you see this new acquisition will show benefits faster than you can say trade-deficit.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 14, 2004, 05:12:10 AM
They should grab the dead part of Ion Storm: "Daikatana 2 - Only on Nintendo Gamecube!"
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 05:32:51 AM
Daikatana had the best enemies ever. I mean, wow. Frogs and dragonflies strike FEAR into any mere mortal. OMG I'm being slowly licked to death by a frog! *TENSE MUSIC*
Nintendo could learn a thing or two.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: John Cena on April 14, 2004, 05:56:49 AM
well Midway is selling some Shares nintendo should buy some
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: couchmonkey on April 14, 2004, 07:06:02 AM
If I could truly have any developer...Square Enix! Nintendo would take Japan back from Sony in an instant, and it would probably get a huge leap in popularity here too. But Square Enix is obviously a much bigger company than Silicon Knights....there's no small developer that I'm all that interested in right now, except maybe Zed Two. And I'm not sure they're up to the challenge, they seem to put about one new game out every five years, and then re-release it on all the other systems.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Ian Sane on April 14, 2004, 07:06:56 AM
Seriously I think Nintendo should acquire Treasure. They're a small company so unlike something like Square Enix it's actually feasible for Nintendo to buy them. I can't think of a more talented developer that isn't firmly dedicated to a third party publisher or console maker. Plus Treasure's games appeal to the Japanese more than SK so Nintendo might actually *gasp* know how to market their games. However since Treasure is very much a hardcore game developer Nintendo would have to "teach" their fanbase to like those types of games something they failed to do with SK.
Though I don't think anyone could "replace" SK, only merely fill the hole in Nintendo's lineup. Nintendo really had a strong ally there with the potential to make a huge system seller and they f*cking blew it.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: kennyb27 on April 14, 2004, 11:10:13 AM
How about Zoonami?
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 14, 2004, 11:44:08 AM
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 14, 2004, 11:52:02 AM
Come to think of it, Ion Storm wouldn't be that bad after all. Anachronox 2 might have some real potential.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: nolimit19 on April 14, 2004, 12:13:20 PM
EA....hahhaha can you imagine if any one console had a madden exclusive???
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: kpw22 on April 14, 2004, 01:32:43 PM
um well i have to disagree completly with everyone except the guy who said treasure. I pick Capcom, they arent small, but would be cheap because of their financial problems. It would be great though....you would get the "muture" games, the RPGs, and make some really other awesome games exclusive. perfect. EA sucks......
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Draygaia on April 14, 2004, 01:39:02 PM
Damn Ian beat me! I say Treasure. Mainly because they do what Nintendo does best. Mainly concentrate on the fun of the game. They can still make great classic games too. How many games can be as simple and fun as Wario World? A lot of them keep talking about graphics and all this complicated stuff in the game and then its just another game worthy of rent or forget.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 03:28:23 PM
I demand a new Gunstar Heroes on GameCube, in sexy detailed 2D. C'mon Nintendo, get your cash out of your nose and throw some at Treasure.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 14, 2004, 10:13:11 PM
Sega, no contest.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Nephilim on April 14, 2004, 10:36:09 PM
Tiato I think this company is still stuck in the 2D days, being all they do is rerelease bust-a-move every 6months, with a few jems along then way. Anyway Love to see Nintendo Help them make a decent Lufia game (since lufia games have been horrid since no.2 on snes) think they would of got it right after the last 3 times
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 14, 2004, 10:46:32 PM
Oooh... Taito, I like it.
They could convince them to use the name Puzzle Bobble globally instead of the lame Bust-a-move in the US Market.
They could create a new Bubble Bobble arcade/platformer.
They could create a new Wrath of the Black Manta
They could create a FPS based around Elevator Action
They could create a new Rastan game
Best of all:
They could give us a new Darius Gaiden game.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: UniversalJuan on April 14, 2004, 11:29:19 PM
Hello? Camelot anyone?
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Mario on April 14, 2004, 11:39:53 PM
Yeah, we wouldn't want Mario Golf or Mario Tennis being ported to another console would we, Nintendo better buy out Camelot just to be sure! -_-'
more liek Nintendo and Sega am i rite
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: UniversalJuan on April 15, 2004, 07:19:08 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Mario Yeah, we wouldn't want Mario Golf or Mario Tennis being ported to another console would we, Nintendo better buy out Camelot just to be sure! -_-'
more liek Nintendo and Sega am i rite
While I'm a lover of sarcasm as much as the next guy? You're forgetting that your little example there can turn around and be said about SEGA as well. Wouldn't want F-Zero being ported either now would we?
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 15, 2004, 07:21:32 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey I demand a new Gunstar Heroes on GameCube, in sexy detailed 2D. C'mon Nintendo, get your cash out of your nose and throw some at Treasure.
OMG, quote stolen from me! ^_^
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 15, 2004, 07:29:31 AM
Quote Originally posted by: DeadlyD Tiato I think this company is still stuck in the 2D days
good
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: evilnate on April 15, 2004, 07:42:03 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey I demand a new Gunstar Heroes on GameCube, in sexy detailed 2D. C'mon Nintendo, get your cash out of your nose and throw some at Treasure.
Hot damn! Something like this would easily make me forget all the ills that have plagued the GameCube. I love Gunstar Heroes! I even bought it in Hong Kong for the Game Gear, I love it so much!
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: ThePerm on April 15, 2004, 07:42:41 AM
It would prolly take 3 companies to replace sk, but yeah if Ninty would buy Sega and bring Sega back to its glory then i think that would be adequate...i want some shenmue...i do want some more sk originals though
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 15, 2004, 10:41:24 AM
Of course buying Sega would probably mean spinning off the Sega Sports/ESPN division...
Or maybe trade them to EA in return for some exclusive launch titles for the N5.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 15, 2004, 10:41:27 AM
Capcom.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 15, 2004, 10:44:02 AM
Actually, let me change my vote from Sega to Koei.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 15, 2004, 11:06:06 AM
Admittedly hasty calculations
Acclaim is presently worth $65 million Taito is worth about $580 million Capcom is worth about $620 million Koei is worth $1.44 billion Namco is worth $1.65 billion Sega is worth $1.8 billion Konami is worth $3.36 billion
Yeah, Capcom is sounding better to me too...
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Rich on April 15, 2004, 11:33:52 AM
I choose Factor5 I think that they would be great because they could keep pushing the hardware while Nintendo helps them with actual gameplay mechanics that they may have trouble with. Also I like how Factor5 would stop developing hardware tools for other systems and just make things easeir on Nintendo's console.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: ThePerm on April 15, 2004, 04:47:53 PM
Koie worth more then capcom....hmmm..damn....they could afford to give cube some more support with the money they have.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: GoldShadow1 on April 15, 2004, 08:54:54 PM
I'm assuming you mean second party, which is what Silicon Knights was. I would choose Konami. Castlevania, Metal Gear, Devil May Cry... what else do you need?
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 15, 2004, 09:20:18 PM
Konami would also imply Hudson. Between Nintendo's existing share and Konami's share, I believe they'd have majority control of it as well.
Maybe we can finally get Milon's Secret Castle for the Cube?
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: UniversalJuan on April 15, 2004, 09:29:19 PM
Quote Originally posted by: GoldShadow1 I'm assuming you mean second party, which is what Silicon Knights was. I would choose Konami. Castlevania, Metal Gear, Devil May Cry... what else do you need?
A lawyer What that little bit means is that DMC is Capcom's, not Konami's. Just filling you in.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 16, 2004, 05:57:05 AM
bemani on cube, I'm down.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: savanna03 on April 16, 2004, 07:04:52 AM
i think they should sell all their western company and be strictly japanese 'cuz NORTH AMERICA want to play the next ANIMAL CROSSING type game... who needs violence where we could just communicate with the AI in the virtual world and let us play scavenger hunt all day long. who needs SQUARE-ENIX, CAPCOM or KONAMI 'cuz they spend too much money on technology and story development. everyone knows that those type of games dont sell. heck those games cant even sell compare to all MARIO games. MARIO should be the the measuring stick for NINTENDO... if a company cant sell their games like MARIO, they should be consider a failure. heck MARIO dont need advertising, he just sell himself. why cant other company such as SILICON KNIGHT sell their games???
they should get a bunch of no name small companies who likes simple graphics but are good in play mechanics... a company that requires only one button game to make it fun. holy cow, KIRBY AIR RIDE was a hit. everything should be on text base 'cuz it will teach kids to read. oh and the story should be revolving on kidnapping for no apparent reason and the main character should save her just to get the plot moving. plus, dont make it too graphic 'cuz it will get them in trouble. the game should be super easy so that it wont offend the little kids who are stuck in one level... and make it short like 6:00 hrs too complete 'cuz no one likes to play games that would last 59:00hrs to complete. if any companies that fit my description should contact NINTENDO... that is my dream company that would replace SILICON KNIGHT.
oh yeah, who needs online right NINTENDO. we could just carry a console and a our portable tv to play multiplayer to our friends house 'cuz u said that was everyone wants to do this days.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 16, 2004, 07:20:07 AM
aside from the fact that post, and all your posts, contain an obnoxious amount of capitols that makes no sence at all.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: GaimeGuy on April 16, 2004, 10:20:26 AM
Good, I'm not the only one....
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 16, 2004, 11:16:59 AM
You only cuz' Nintendo... ummm... America... stuck game play happy friendly
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: GoldShadow1 on April 16, 2004, 01:32:18 PM
"A lawyer What that little bit means is that DMC is Capcom's, not Konami's. Just filling you in. "
Eep, yeah, sorry. Suddenly completely forgot that for some reason.
Come to think of it, Capcom might be nice too, but we're receiving plenty of support for them at the moment.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: ResidentEvil88 on April 17, 2004, 04:03:01 PM
Duh i would pick up Capcom in a heartbeat, but also maybe Square Enix
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: rpglover on April 17, 2004, 05:15:27 PM
titus in a heartbeat....
ok- seriously i would love to see nintendo pick up treasure or gamearts
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 17, 2004, 05:24:21 PM
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 17, 2004, 07:45:47 PM
Nintendo could buy GA from Square-Enix. Just because someone owns them doesn't mean they're not for sale.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 17, 2004, 10:43:32 PM
Quote Originally posted by: rpglover titus in a heartbeat....
ok- seriously i would love to see nintendo pick up treasure or gamearts
Titus would probably give you Interplay for free (or close) if you'd ask (and were willing to assume the debt therein).
If you're looking for a cheapy, you could do worse, although other than Fallout and Descent, they don't have many of their licenses remaining. The Baldur's Gate console license has a little longer on it IIRC, but the rest of the D&D stuff is long gone (thanks a lot Atari).
Hey, Interplay made a couple Mario titles back in the day IIRC, might it not be fitting if they were folding into Nintendo now?
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 17, 2004, 10:55:58 PM
Even though I think a lot of the money required for Sega would be a waste (spinning off the Sports division or selling it to EA or Disney outright would be a must) I'd like to see it just for the panic it would cause in the industry.
Buying Sega would put the fear of God in Microsoft. Any hope they had left of being a serious player in Japan instantly vanishes. Any hope they had of maintaining their "hardcore gamers" image (to the extent its believed in the first place) stateside vanishes. It also puts 90% of the most respected development teams in Japan under the Nintendo umbrella.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 17, 2004, 11:40:43 PM
Hey, it's just pure fantasy on my part! I know there is no way Nintendo would purchase Sega or make them a exclusive developer.
I don't think Sega is as popular in the minds of casual gamers as they were in the early '90s. Some of their really good games are overlooked.
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 18, 2004, 01:33:11 AM
I think they should buy Tecmo if they really want to hurt Microsoft...
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 19, 2004, 09:15:15 PM
Camelot, Treasure and Zoonami seem the most logical choices. Rage Software makers of Rocky is another one. So they could make a new Punch Out.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: dapyroman.dk on April 20, 2004, 04:59:06 AM
Ubisoft because prince of persia and beyond good and evil rocks!!!!!
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Doerr on April 25, 2004, 05:50:34 PM
Treasure
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Segnit BGS on April 28, 2004, 03:06:11 AM
Nintendo should revive Boss Games Studios and its staff. Nintendo needs a killer racer. Boss games Such a sweet memory.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Gamebasher on April 28, 2004, 05:23:50 AM
Nintendo should take NAMCO as replacement for Silicon Knights.
Plenty of Arcade titles, would ensure the facelift the GCN needs. Not that Ninty hasn“t done their part to help things along, but good old NAMCO would definitely do things good!!!! Remember who put a realistic Zelda in a certain fightning game, and how well they did it! They surely did Nintendo a great favor there, as that the GCN version of same outsold all the other SC versions!!
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: couchmonkey on April 28, 2004, 07:51:11 AM
Ah yeah, how could I forget about Treasure? I'm just thinking too western, I guess!! I'll vote for them, or Camelot, but Camelot seems to be in Nintendo's pocket anyway. Ultimately, though, it looks to me like Nintendo is getting out of the second party business. Most of the second party developers they still have are practically overseas first parties...Retro and NST are mostly or wholly owned by Nintendo, I believe, and they seem to take orders directly from Nintendo. It's too bad, I think, because I liked how second parties had the opportunity to develop unique new franchises for Nintendo's systems.
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 28, 2004, 08:55:27 AM
Quote Originally posted by: Gamebasher Remember who put a realistic Zelda in a certain fightning game, and how well they did it!
You mean HAL? I thought Nintendo owned them already?
Title: RE: If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: jasonditz on April 28, 2004, 10:55:43 AM
No way we can afford Namco
Title: RE:If Nintendo could replace Silicon Knights with any developer, who'd you pick?
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 28, 2004, 12:45:45 PM
Well would really want TradeWest to resurface most of their SNES games were fuuuunnnnnnn