Post by: jmoe316 on February 09, 2004, 08:41:32 AM
Seems interesting. Funny part of the interview i would like to point out:
"He went on to say that with the game Nintendo is creating new elements not found in other titles and that if the publisher was to show them off they would be copied by competitors."
lol, didn't he say the exact same thing about Mario Sunshine? Was it directed to the waterpack? Cuz i don't see any other games where a dude floats around and shoots things with a waterpack on his back. I don't know what elements he wanted to preserve from getting stolen. Hopefully this new Mario has an amazing element worth hiding!
Post by: Ian Sane on February 09, 2004, 08:57:25 AM
He says that about EVERY game. I love him but man does he over-estimate the potential of his own ideas. Fun fact: people don't copy Miyamoto any more because his games aren't the big money makers in the industry anymore. Water packs and vacuuming ghosts doesn't sell so no one copies those ideas. The only EAD title that really got copied before it was released was Super Mario 64 and that's because it WAS an industry changing game.
Actually I was hoping that the next Mario didn't have anything that needed to be hidden. I don't WANT some new big change to the Mario formula. I just want a good Mario game that doesn't focus everything around some gimmick no one cares about.
Post by: jmoe316 on February 09, 2004, 09:20:04 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 09, 2004, 09:37:38 AM
Post by: StRaNgE on February 09, 2004, 09:45:10 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 09, 2004, 10:48:25 AM
Yes of course. And then we'll all be like "where's the innovation, dude?" when it comes out. Remember we're Nintendo fans and thus can never be satisfied.
What I really want is just a solid game that improves on Super Mario 64. Super Mario Sunshine tried too hard to change Super Mario 64. I don't want an overhaul I just want some improvements. Super Mario Bros 3 added flight to Mario games. That was pretty cool. Would we have liked it if you were stuck as Racoon Mario ALL THE TIME and thus could always fly? No of course not. That was the problem with SMS. No one wanted to wear a water pack all the time. Nintendo seems to have this bizarre attitude going where they have to completely re-invent the wheel each time so we get gimmicky stuff like a water pack or toon shading. If that's ALL Nintendo can think of to innovate then I would rather they make something more cookie-cutter provided that it rocks. Super Metroid didn't change the Metroid formula much but it sure kicked ass.
"The whole point is that someone could potentially steal their ideas and beat them to market with it..."
True but it's unlikely. I don't think copying Nintendo is something most developers feel is necessary anymore. They're grossly underestimated by Sony and MS. Why steal an idea from old fuddy duddy Nintendo when they can't sell anything? I think the bigger problem is that this "our idea is so amazing we can't tell anyone about it" stuff creates hype that cannot possibly be fulfilled. It's better that they either show it before building it up or not talk about it at all and just say "we're working on it and we'll show it when we feel it's ready."
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 09, 2004, 10:54:59 AM
Quote
Actually I was hoping that the next Mario didn't have anything that needed to be hidden. I don't WANT some new big change to the Mario formula. I just want a good Mario game that doesn't focus everything around some gimmick no one cares about.
Just because Miyamoto doesn't want to show it doesn't mean the game revolves around a gimmick- I believe he said the exact same thing about Super Mario 64, and the biggest difference between it and past Mario games was the addition of a third dimension. I think Miyamoto has also said on numerous occasions that SM128 was going to be more of a direct sequel to SM64 (hence the name ), so I think you'll be satisfied.
Post by: Michael8983 on February 09, 2004, 12:00:28 PM
Especially when it comes to the 3D platform genre which is full of lame copy-cat games. It wasn't the water pack itself Miyamoto was worried about people stealing, it was the gameplay innovation it allowed. The same mechanics could easily be used for a flame-thrower, missile launcher, or any number of other things. Same for the vacuum in Luigi's Mansion. It wasn't the vacuum itself that made the game innovative as much as it was the emphasis on using it to interact with the environment in a unique way. A developer could easily be "inspired" to do something similar without an actual vacuum cleaner.
Miyamoto's ideas are still ripped off all the time. It's just not always as blatant and shameless as something like "Crash Nitro Kart".
Post by: WesDawg on February 09, 2004, 12:24:44 PM
I don't think toon shading was a gimick either, or the water pack for that matter. It wasn't like they said, "Nobody's gonna buy this new Mario game if its just like Mario64. Lets add a waterpack to make people excited." Someone had the idea. It was different from most stuff out there. You use a gimmick to sell something you don't think will sell otherwise. That wasn't the point with either of those two things.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on February 09, 2004, 01:35:03 PM
I don't want old-skool platforming as such dominating the new game, just massive, VARIED environments. And please, I don't wanna have to go out then back into the level to get new stars. The system that Banjo Kazooie has was great.
Post by: Draygaia on February 09, 2004, 01:49:19 PM
Post by: Inkwell on February 09, 2004, 03:45:30 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 09, 2004, 03:48:37 PM
Post by: Michael8983 on February 09, 2004, 04:03:32 PM
Miyamoto never promises such things. It's the fans who someone come up with this cr*p. Anytime Miyamoto suggests a game will have something "new" or "unique" they somehow come to the conclusion that it will be an amazing innovation that will forever change the world. Whenever it's revealed that Nintendo has a secret, it's always presumed to be the biggest bombshell in the history of the industry that will destroy the competition and put a Nintendo console in the home of every living person.
Nintendo fans just have a bad habit of blowing everything WAY out of proportion.
Post by: Inkwell on February 09, 2004, 04:34:26 PM
Im just saying I think he (Miyamoto) is to hyped-up, we all know he makes great games (not all the time though) but he seems to be the life of Nintendo. There are more people at Nintendo beside this one man that can make a great game.
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 09, 2004, 04:37:31 PM
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There are more people at Nintendo beside this one man that can make a great game.
Miyamoto himself embraces this- you do realize that Ocarina of Time was the last Zelda game he directed, right? He's taken a much more reserved role, offering input on projects headed by other people rather than making the games himself. He is, essentially, training a new generation of game designers.
Post by: Mario on February 09, 2004, 04:42:28 PM
....or not.
Post by: Inkwell on February 09, 2004, 05:00:45 PM
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Miyamoto himself embraces this- you do realize that Ocarina of Time was the last Zelda game he directed, right? He's taken a much more reserved role, offering input on projects headed by other people rather than making the games himself. He is, essentially, training a new generation of game designers.
What projects are you talkin about...like the new Zelda, Mario, or anything else the was originally a Miyamoto idea. C'mon man, he may not be that active but he seem to have and iron fist on things. Is he training these guys to be more like him or to be great game designer...but we won't know because they probably continue make "the Miyamoto series" of games. These new gen. of game designers may have thier own great ideas right now but they are probably content on making the new Zelda or Mario because its a great Miyamoto game ( Which I understand. Hey, its Miyamoto for God's sake). Maybe these new guys or whatever might have the new thing that Nintendo can add to thier roster.
Post by: WesDawg on February 09, 2004, 06:58:52 PM
Post by: Metaphysical Spirit on February 09, 2004, 08:51:26 PM
How can you say Miyamoto hasn't changed gaming? Years of his work has gone a far way in the gaming idustry? Im sorry, but I don't see your logic in that? That was then, so what about now you might ask? He has schools to teach new people in the industry. Not only is he a good videogame designer, but he is a GREAT business man. He teaches people to not follow and copy games, but to create your own. He teaches how to be a good business man. He shows everyone a love for videogames, not money. He shows he has morales. Nintendo, an Original VIDEOGAME Company. Been in business for over a decade. PS and MS, a Large Monopoly that sees videogames a money maker (Makes $30 billion more than the movie industry) and been in the VIDEOGAME business not long at all. Miyamoto has created an awesome reputation for himself, that's why he has such an "up in your face" type of power in Nintendo.
I remember the days (And they still do these days, just not as much) that Nintendo had many secrets. They would spread their own humors, and only some would be true. Ever notice that Nintendo doesn't talk about ANY game till it's about to come out. It's almost a unwritten rule in the Gaming Industry to not give out your ideas, so they aren't copied. It's not the matter that the company sells games, but how well this "New" idea works with the genre. Would it sell and help improve a game or the company? Look at Grand Theft Auto 3. If they gave out more info sooner and someone else created a game just like that before, who would get more fame?
Miyamoto also has to go with what he knows has worked for over a decade. Might be old knowledge, but it got the company where they are now. Every business has it's hills and hard spots, but a strong company can get through and make the best out of it. I beleive Nintendo is a very strong business and is sticking around for awhile and will still create new ideas.. as everyone other company will keep driving a certain genre that is gets soo copied and dull.
Post by: joshnickerson on February 10, 2004, 02:58:09 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 10, 2004, 06:11:46 AM
Would I LIKE to come up with something better? Sure would. That would be cool.
Can I come up with something better? Probably not but it would at the very least be different from anything Miyamoto makes. True he doesn't really make games on his own anymore but he's basically just training more of him which kind of hurts the variety of Nintendo's lineup a little. Train ONE guy to be another Miyamoto and let the other guys define themselves. Otherwise it's just to much of the same thing.Of course that point would be moot if Intelligent Systems would make some f*cking Cube games. "Duh, we don't know how to use 3D" is NOT a valid excuse in 2004.
Post by: Metaphysical Spirit on February 10, 2004, 07:45:36 AM
Of course we would all like to come up with something better, especially how Im going to college for Game Design and Development, and its not all lolipops and suckers when it comes to creating fresh ideas. Ian is right about not needing more of Miyamoto's influence to run all over Nintendo, though he is an inspiration to Im sure all the workers there. Every does need define themselves, but maybe we are looking at this the wrong way.. Maybe he knows this? I'm sure he influences NoA a lot less though.
Post by: Inkwell on February 10, 2004, 10:35:13 AM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Would you like to come up with something better? It's easier said than done, and you can't be overcreative because of technology limitations..."
Would I LIKE to come up with something better? Sure would. That would be cool.
Of course that point would be moot if Intelligent Systems would make some f*cking Cube games. "Duh, we don't know how to use 3D" is NOT a valid excuse in 2004.
Thank You Ian, this is what Im trying to say. Nintendo obviously has more talent than just Miyamoto, but its seems like they refuse to use it. Personally Nintendo doesn't have variety anymore, their style is completely Miyamoto rather than Mr. A or Mr. B or even Mr. C. They are completely defined by Miyamoto, and thats probably why people moan about so an so game not looking good or plays like this other game or whatever, because they see Miyamoto as gospel. All his games must be the definitive object that describes gaming otherwise it can't be the truth. SO there would lie disappointment in his work when you expect this and you get that and don't say you shouldn't expect at all because that is just BS. Afterall Nintendo/Miyamoto knows what we want.
Post by: Chongman on February 10, 2004, 03:00:38 PM
well, i think you have to also realize that so many if Miyamato's games rock like no other. They're his "style," yeah, but they're FUN. He, like nintendo, make FUN GAMES.
But yeah, I know what you're saying, too much is not good for variety
Know what I would love to see though?
Hideo Kojima working exclusively for nintendo. Now that would ROCK. I definitely wouldn't mind nintendo using some microsoft tactics with that one.
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on February 11, 2004, 11:34:35 AM
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Originally posted by: Bill
The whole point is that someone could potentially steal their ideas and beat them to market with it...
Yeah. Bill may have really perverted avatars, but he's a smart guy.
Post by: Rancid Planet on February 11, 2004, 07:38:26 PM
Post by: Plugabugz on February 12, 2004, 10:45:46 AM
He should swap development roles with someone equally as creative to allow the games made more variety. Who knows... I could be wrong and they do that all the time? But then if that be the case then Miyamoto attracts too much attention for other people's work
Post by: kirby_killer_dedede on February 12, 2004, 12:11:30 PM
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Originally posted by: Rancid Planet
I would just like to say that Metaphysical Spirit has the best avatar I have ever seen.
Yeah. Sexy too.
