Post by: StrikerObi on January 31, 2004, 10:24:57 AM
You can read the awards here.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 31, 2004, 10:33:12 AM
Post by: kennyb27 on January 31, 2004, 10:40:30 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 31, 2004, 10:44:46 AM
Still, great choices overall
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 11:22:47 AM
A year from now, how much of your current gameplay time do you think will be spent online?
How much of your current gameplay time is spent online?
Have you ever paid to play an online game?
How important is online play when you consider buying your next console?
How important is online play when you consider buying games?
What percentage of the games you currently play are online?
How often do you play games online?
Have you played a console game online yet?
You get the general idea from those polls, and others like them, that the vast majority of gamers either care very little for online gaming or don't care for it at all. I guess the PGC staffers are the ones who are alone in being dissapointed at lack of such a feature for the Gamecube. Personally, I think the winner for the category of Biggest Dissapointment should have been the runner up, lack of any original or amusing connective games. I'm glad they didn't throw away money on online play, which would have failed anyway, especially on the Gamecube- if anything we should be HAPPY that Nintendo hasn't jumped into the murky waters of online games as Microsoft as. I feel more let down that they DID jump into the murky waters of connectivity promising pearls only to return with pebbles. Overall, though, I'm not real dissapointed by 2003 at all, and 2004 looks to be a very good year as well, if only because connectivity is starting to get some good use, finally.
Post by: Bloodworth on January 31, 2004, 11:34:24 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 11:36:52 AM
That's all I'll say on the subject, though- I've really got to stem this nasty habit of starting flame wars. :\
Post by: nolimit19 on January 31, 2004, 12:05:52 PM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 31, 2004, 12:13:59 PM
But there is a small group of hardcore gamers, including many of us on the PGC staff, who are very interested in online play because we would actually use it. Moreover, we think Nintendo can do a better job with implementing this feature than Sony or Microsoft, so we would like to see how the company would do it and what it could offer. Then there's the simple fact that I'd much rather play Nintendo's games online than I would want to play Microsoft's games online. That's because I think Nintendo's games are better.
Anyway, we don't pretend that these awards represent the opinions of even one of our readers. They can only indicate what the PGC staff thinks, and I can promise that "Do you want online gaming on GameCube?" is not one of the questions on our staff application. Is it coincidence that most of the staff wants GameCube to go online? I doubt that. Look, we're very hardcore and vocal gamers who obviously use the Internet a lot. We also tend to be very aware of what's going on with the other systems, so it's natural that we see features they have and we don't and get jealous. Some people on the staff actually feel just like you, mouseclicker, but maybe they just don't care to discuss their thoughts on the issue in the forums. Regardless, the vote shows that the majority of our staff wants online games on GameCube, and that's all the vote shows.
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 12:16:51 PM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on January 31, 2004, 12:37:04 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 12:39:41 PM
Post by: nickmitch on January 31, 2004, 12:42:31 PM
Post by: odifiend on January 31, 2004, 01:00:59 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 01:09:12 PM
What REALLY pisses me off is my startlingly low resistance to getting into arguments- Bloodworth called it perfectly.
Post by: Cowface on January 31, 2004, 01:48:26 PM
As for the Best Game Boy Advance Game Award, I think Fire Emblem should be on top of M&L. As much as I loved Mario & Luigi, it was much too short. M&L would have been a fine Runner-up, though. The same goes for Best Sound on the GameBoy Advance.
I highly agree with whoever said it that Wario World should have gotten the Most Disappointing Award.
There's more, but I'm too lazy to run through the Awards again and criticize the others.
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 31, 2004, 01:56:58 PM
Overall, pretty good choices with the games. Except for that the biggest surprise is FREE KEVIN being banned and the biggest disappointment is Grey Ninja leaving, but oh well. =P
The quotes section was rather lacking.......I expected something better out of Ty.
Maybe you guys should start quoting me (or swordsplay hhrhrhrhrrh).Post by: Deguello on January 31, 2004, 03:43:06 PM
I thought True Crime was more disappointing in the classical sense of hype vs. actual product. Wario World just existed. Had an ad or two, no big deal. True Crime was hyped to bejesus and back. It should have won.
As for online, I didn't have Broadband all through 2003. I'm sure any online effort would require it, Yeah since I couldn't possibly enjoy any online thing from anybody (Except Starcraft heh heh) How the heck could it disappoint me? The connectivity offerings in 2003 were substantial, but nothing to write home about. Pacman Versus is great, but more is needed.
Post by: odifiend on January 31, 2004, 04:10:23 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 04:20:16 PM
Post by: GaimeGuy on January 31, 2004, 04:21:17 PM
Post by: Pale on January 31, 2004, 04:39:25 PM
MADE IN WARIO GCN!!!
....sorry, I just love that game.
Post by: Shin Gallon on January 31, 2004, 04:53:44 PM
And why the total omission of Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced? I've put 97 hours into that game, and I'm not tired of it yet, and though I could probably have beat it by now, I'm having too much fun with the game to finish it just yet. And this is just my first playthrough...not only would I have given it GBA game of the year, I'd give it "Best Handheld Game Ever" (yes, even over the original Game Boy version of Tetris). Mario and Luigi was great and all, but I didn't play it near constantly like I did FFTA.
As for online gaming, I could care less. I don't fancy paying extra monthly fees for a game after I've already paid 50 bucks for the disc, only to have some smart-ass AOL users trash talk me while using cheat codes to kill my character, and don't get me started on the joys of lagging and server crashes. I've never enjoyed an online experience in any game, for any system, so the online thing is a total non-issue for me. My most dissapointing moment was discovering Nintendo plans on making yet another system instead of focusing on GBA and Gamecube.
Post by: StrikerObi on January 31, 2004, 04:55:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaleZer0
ACK! BEST IMPORT 2003!!!
MADE IN WARIO GCN!!!
....sorry, I just love that game.
I can't remember but I either voted for Joe or for this. Atsumare! Made in Wario is fantastic.
Post by: odifiend on January 31, 2004, 04:56:11 PM
Question 1: A year from now how much gameplay time will I spend online?
Answer 1: Zero. I'm interested but I only game with Nintendo and it sounds like their sticking to their guns.
Question 2: How much time do you play on now?
Answer 2: Zero. Again I'm interested but I only game with Nintendo.
? 3: Have you ever paid to play an online game?
A 3: No, I actually own PSO but didn't think hunting down a modem was worth the one game.
? 4: How important is online play when you consider buying your next console?
A 4: I would reply very important but not essential.
? 5: How important is online play when you consider buying games?
A 5: Right now of zero importance b/c with GCN i'm given no options.
? 6: What percentage of the games you currently play are online?
A 6: Zero.
? 7: How often do you play games online?
A 7: Not at all.
? 8: Have you played a console game online yet?
A 8: Yes, I've tried some of the EA PS2 titles, they were fun.
I'm incredibly interested in online gaming now and in the future but if you read my responses (without the comments), there is no way you'd know that because of the questions and their answers. That was my point. The way I read you're earliest statment it relied on the polls as being evidence.
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 05:01:11 PM
If you look at Shin Gallon's answers below, you can see that the polls are worded well enough to form a fairly accurate (as accurate a GameFAQs poll can be) portrayal of interest in online gaming.
Post by: Shin Gallon on January 31, 2004, 05:04:05 PM
Q 1: A year from now how much gameplay time will I spend online?
A 1: Zero. Monthly fees for games = I don't play online.
Q 2: How much time do you play on now?
A 2: Zero. See above.
Q 3: Have you ever paid to play an online game?
A 3: No, and I never will.
Q 4: How important is online play when you consider buying your next console?
A 4: Not important at all, I have no interest in online games.
Q 5: How important is online play when you consider buying games?
A 5: Not important at all, I have no interest in online games.
Q 6: What percentage of the games you currently play are online?
A 6: None.
Q 7: How often do you play games online?
A 7: Never.
Q 8: Have you played a console game online yet?
A 8: I tried, it sucked. it lagged like crazy, and every other player online was a total jerk. If I wanted to listen to childish insults I'd go back to high school.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 31, 2004, 05:40:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shin Gallon
I think the "Import game of the year" award should go to a game that didn't get a domestic release. Yes, Viewtiful Joe is awsome, but it got released here, so giving it the award doesn't really make sense to me.
Best Import Game is the best game for importing. If it helps you understand the third-place finisher was Soul Calibur II. That and VJ were certainly the most heavily imported GameCube titles this year, and for good reason. It has to do with them coming out way before the domestic release and being largely in English. So they're obviously good imports...
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And why the total omission of Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced?
It was nominated in several categories but didn't get many votes. Some people did vote for it as most disappointing game, as well, which I think points to some underlying problems with it. I thought it was pretty underwhelming and not even as good as the PSone game or its more direct competition, Tactics Ogre on GBA.
Post by: odifiend on January 31, 2004, 05:46:20 PM
Quote
If you can't afford another console or a better computer, then the point is kind of moot because you wouldn't be playing online games period.
WTF are you talking about. Firstly, commenting on my economic status is close to unacceptable. A computer that plays computer games well is in the 1300-2000 dollar range and my parents would put me on the street if I blew $200 on another console with college coming up. A small monthly fee however is managable (I already have broadband at home and in college i'll have even better broadband).
I'm not arguing semantics- you said something to the effect of "Bill were not alone, look at all these other people who don't want online gaming," by taking the poll, I proved that it does not always give an accurate reading, proving your first statement is erroneous.
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How could you draw any other conclusion?
Here's one for you- nothing can be determined from the poll. Take a Statistics course and you'll understand.
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Could you honestly deduce from those polls that most people DO play/want to play online games?
Nope, but obviously since we're having this argument, you couldn't effectively prove the reverse.
P.S. It is obvious that Shin will never pay for online service- that's all that is there. Does that mean he isn't interested? I'm thinking no...
Post by: Shin Gallon on January 31, 2004, 05:56:13 PM
Online gaming literally interests me less than sports games, and sports games interest me about as much as smashing my forehead with a hammer (that is to say, not at all).
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 05:57:21 PM
Quote
Here's one for you- nothing can be determined from the poll. Take a Statistics course and you'll understand.
Why should I take a class? How is asking the general opinion of the public not indicative of the general opinion of the public? Explain that to me, don't say I should take some class.
Quote
Nope, but obviously since we're having this argument, you couldn't effectively prove the reverse.
I essentially HAVE proven the reverse- keep in mind I'm not claiming that NOBODY wants to play online games, just that most don't. How can those polls possibly lead you to the opposite conclusion, that most people DO want to play games online? If you're not led to such a conclusion from the polls, why do you think Nintendo should invest the time and money to take the Gamecube online? Tell me this: what evidence do you have that enough people want to play games online to justify Nintendo creating an online system? As far as I'm concerned, until you can answer that question, Nintendo has every reason to stay out of online gaming. It will become popular eventually, but not yet.
Post by: odifiend on January 31, 2004, 06:43:21 PM
Quote
what evidence do you have that enough people want to play games online to justify Nintendo creating an online system? As far as I'm concerned, until you can answer that question, Nintendo has every reason to stay out of online gaming
Touche, M_C, touche. But just to save face, I will guess that even Nintendo truly doesn't know the answer. It would be a huge gamble for them so they don't feel it is worth it, but these are the people who perfected and made standard portable gaming. They overcame battery life and size, so if anyone can...
Now for your Stat question.
Quote
How is asking the general opinion of the public not indicative of the general opinion of the public?
According to statistics, to preform an accurate prediction of a population, a random sample from that population must be tested. Therefore the people involved must be obtained randomly. People who always log on to GameFaqs are by no means random. That right there would void the credence of that poll.
Even if that most important factor was ignored, you have to take into account that it was 1) a voluntary response sample. Often only people who feel strongly participate, skewing readings. 2) Such a sample (voluntary) is prone to undercoverage (not getting enough feedback to qualify it as random [not really a problem here that's already out]).
So according to statistics, because the GameFaqs polls defied the Great Holy laws of Stat by having a nonrandom sample, that sample was not an accurate depiction of the general public making it useless.
Don't worry I hate Statistics, too.
They really suck. In fact forget I told you to take the course because I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemy.
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 31, 2004, 06:47:41 PM
Quote
Honestly I don't want or need huge online communities, I just want a match system akin to EA sports titles or warp pipe. It sounds minimal and it would increase the lastability of great, mainly-offline games. I concede for various reasons but mostly because this would be never ending and it is straying from relevence.
I completely agree! I think Nintendo should take an approach much like Sony- not as in depth as MS, but still encouraging of 3rd parties.
Quote
I will guess that even Nintendo truly doesn't know the answer.
I would tend to agree with that myself, although there's no way to know for sure. I think Nintendo could afford at least a test, either towards the end of this generation or at the beginning of next generation. I do think Nintendo ingenuitive enough to find a way to make online gaming profitable.
Post by: CaseyRyback on January 31, 2004, 09:51:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I never made a comment on your economic status specifically, odifiend- I said, in general, if you can only afford one console then online gaming is obviously not your primary concern, especially because it can get expensive to play games online. I don't have too much money to buy games, so on the whole I don't want to spend a lot of it online when I could be buying more offlinegames. THAT was my point. Beyond that, you assume I'm making an extremist statement- I'm not saying NOBODY wants to play games online, just that MOST don't. I've provided evidence of this before, namely in the very poor sales of XBox Live and Sony's online adaptor, and these polls go a very long way towards proving the same point. Read my last post again, because I said that very same thing- the polls are not conclusive in of themselves, no, and certainly not individually, but together they are strong support for my case.Quote
Here's one for you- nothing can be determined from the poll. Take a Statistics course and you'll understand.
Why should I take a class? How is asking the general opinion of the public not indicative of the general opinion of the public? Explain that to me, don't say I should take some class.Quote
Nope, but obviously since we're having this argument, you couldn't effectively prove the reverse.
I essentially HAVE proven the reverse- keep in mind I'm not claiming that NOBODY wants to play online games, just that most don't. How can those polls possibly lead you to the opposite conclusion, that most people DO want to play games online? If you're not led to such a conclusion from the polls, why do you think Nintendo should invest the time and money to take the Gamecube online? Tell me this: what evidence do you have that enough people want to play games online to justify Nintendo creating an online system? As far as I'm concerned, until you can answer that question, Nintendo has every reason to stay out of online gaming. It will become popular eventually, but not yet.
How is Xbox Live not sucessful? They provide a product for online play when less than 25% of people have BB in America and worldwide sales are 13.7 million. I would say 1 out of 14 people playing online is a large amount. Also you said SONY has not done weel with its adaptor, and it has not done as well as live but still most online games shoot for the BroadBand capable households.
When I buy a game to play online it actually saves money instead of making me spend more. Most people who play online games do not play a wide variety but seem to concentrate on one for a period of time. I spent my whole year addicted to Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield and probably played for about 2 hours a day on average until november. People who pay to play online MMO's have the same mentality in that they focus on that one title because it is so involving that the 15 dollars a month sustains them from having to purchase other games to pass the time.
MC you also bring up these polls, and could the response from these polls be mainly from peopel not having the capability? My friend would love to play online but will not because he has dial up and his father will not allow him to upgrade. When he comes over we spend a lot of time trading off in Rainbow Six because he can not play at home and really likes to play online.
If online gaming was not financially sucessful would EA have spent 2 billion on its online infastructure? Would Xbox live not be making Microsoft a lot of money that helps with the hit they take on the system?
Online gaming may not make Nintendo much money but what it would do, would help 3rd parties sell more of their games which helps make more exclusive games and helps systems sell overall. With that money in the bank Nintendo could sell a lot more systems by spending a little to help 3rd parties not cancel GCN games or give them similar options available on all other games.
Post by: Mario on February 01, 2004, 02:24:15 AM
Quote
I would tend to agree with that myself, although there's no way to know for sure. I think Nintendo could afford at least a test, either towards the end of this generation or at the beginning of next generation.
I'd rather Sony and Microsoft keep doing all the testing for them, it's free for Nintendo that way.
Quote
How is Xbox Live not sucessful?
Uh, because it hasn't made any profit? What's more important, marketshare or mindshare?
Anyway. I agree with most of them, except i wouldn't give Ubi Soft developer of the year, and my biggest disappointment of the year wasn't "no online gaming", but that's just me. Im glad F-Zero GX was mentioned, although it didn't win, it was up against Zelda, so that's okay. Huzzah.
Post by: odifiend on February 01, 2004, 04:04:09 AM
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I would tend to agree with that myself, although there's no way to know for sure. I think Nintendo could afford at least a test, either towards the end of this generation or at the beginning of next generation.
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I'd rather Sony and Microsoft keep doing all the testing for them, it's free for Nintendo that way.
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Mario, it is not exactly free if any of their fans wanted to be online right this second and deserted them for another console. That is money lost, ergo not free.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2004, 04:09:37 AM
Post by: Mario on February 01, 2004, 04:43:44 AM
Quote
Mario, it is not exactly free if any of their fans wanted to be online right this second and deserted them for another console. That is money lost, ergo not free.
While Microsoft and Sony pour money into their online structues, Nintendo can sit back and observe what happens without losing a cent, that's what i meant... please don't turn this into another online debate.
Post by: Caliban on February 01, 2004, 04:47:16 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on February 01, 2004, 05:45:21 AM
What stung me though was how few titles got all those awards. As if some scope was pretty narrow... But then again there aren't that many super-great-twenty-eight-A titles this year...
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on February 01, 2004, 07:01:05 AM
Zelda bonus disc
Relatively dull E3 Expo
New Metroid games
Beyond Good & Evil
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Soul Calibur II
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow
Atsumare! Made in Wario
Wario World
Enter the Matrix
Pac-Man vs.
Mario Kart: Double Dash
Prince of Persia
Fire Emblem
...and that's not even all of them. I agree that Fire Emblem was probably one of the best GBA titles released last year, and it was nominated for GotY GBA, but not a single person voted for it. We aren't going to fudge around the results just so more games can be represented.
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 01, 2004, 07:15:33 AM
Post by: nickmitch on February 01, 2004, 08:32:04 AM
Post by: odifiend on February 01, 2004, 08:57:05 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on February 01, 2004, 08:59:26 AM
Post by: odifiend on February 01, 2004, 09:14:43 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 01, 2004, 09:34:28 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on February 01, 2004, 06:08:07 PM
Sorry to continue this online stuff but there was a point made I really feel needs to be commented on.
" If you're interested in online gaming it's kind of assumed you just don't sit tight with what you have. If you don't go out and get an online capable console/PC that shows you're not interested enough in online gaming to really pursue it."
The thing is I have a PC and don't play many online games (or even games period) on it. That's not because I'm not interested in online games I'm just not interested in PC games as a whole. I don't have a PS2 or Xbox and don't plan on buying them anytime soon, at least not for their online games. I don't want to play SOCOM or Crimson Skies I want to play online Nintendo games. I want to play Mario Kart, Wave Race, 1080, Mario Party and F-Zero online. Obviously I would never be able to play those games on a non-Nintendo console. It's not so much that I want to play online games on the Gamecube I want to play online NINTENDO games and I can't do that unless Nintendo gives me that option. That's why I want Nintendo to go online. So I can play THEIR games with people across the world.
Post by: Pale on February 01, 2004, 07:23:07 PM
Post by: Berto2K on February 01, 2004, 09:19:18 PM
Post by: Fluke Worm on February 01, 2004, 11:09:32 PM
I personally am very interested in online play. I've played some Crimson Skies (original) w/a joystick and a little StarCraft online, not too shabby.
Hey Shin Gallon, only 99.9999999999999999998% of online persons are complete jerks, get your facts straight.
Post by: Shin Gallon on February 04, 2004, 09:10:33 AM
