Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 20, 2004, 05:44:17 PM
Reported by Jonathan Metts
Source: Bloomberg
Link: "Nintendo Announces Dual-Screened Portable Game System"
Update: Nintendo NCL has revealed more information on the dual processors and screens in its Japanese press release.
The primary processor is based on the ARM9 architecture, and the secondary processor is based on the ARM7 architecture. Which screens the two processors are coupled with is unknown. Clock speeds have not been revealed, but according to ARM's website, the ARM7 family is capable of speeds ranging from 75 to 133 MHz, while the ARM9 family clocks from 185 to 230 MHz. For reference, Nintendo and ARM's custom GBA CPU runs at 16.8 MHz. The DS likely features highly customized versions of the processors, however, so these clock speeds should be taken as mere speculation.
The Japanese article also revealed that both screens will be back lit for displays superior to that of the GBA SP.
After months of teasing, Nintendo Company Ltd. today revealed the true nature of its new hardware platform. The tentatively titled "Nintendo DS" is a portable gaming system whose main feature is a dual-screen setup. (The "DS" likely stands for "Dual Screen".) Nintendo hopes that this new layout will allow players to experience new types of gameplay. The company gives the example of a soccer game in which the whole field is shown on one screen while the other screen focuses on a single player. Apparently the system is not intended to be played by two people on a single unit; rather, a single player will be using both screens simultaneously.
There are currently no pictures and few details on the hardware, but Nintendo says the system features two 3-inch TFT LCD screens (each one the same size as that of the Game Boy Advance), separate processors for each display, and semiconductor (cartridge) game media that can be as large as 1 Gbit, considerably more data than is available in current GBA cartridges.
In Nintendo's announcement, NCL President Satoru Iwata made this remark about the new platform: "We have developed Nintendo DS based upon a completely different concept from existing game devices in order to provide players with a unique entertainment experience for the 21st century."
The Nintendo DS is scheduled for worldwide launch by the end of 2004, and Nintendo says it is already working with third-parties to develop software for the machine. PGC will have more information on this story as soon as possible.
Quote
NINTENDO ANNOUNCES DUAL-SCREENED PORTABLE GAME SYSTEM
"Mystery" Product to Launch Later This Year
REDMOND, Wash., Jan 20, 2004 – An unprecedented approach to video game play —holding two separate game screens in the palm of your hand — hits the scene later this year when Nintendo introduces a new portable game system, code-named Nintendo DS.
From information made available today, players can look forward to being able to manage their game progress from two different perspectives, enhancing both the speed and strategy of the challenge. For example in a soccer game, users can view the whole game on one screen while simultaneously focusing on an individual soccer player's tackle or goal on the other screen.
Players will no longer be forced to interrupt game play to shift perspective, such as moving from a wide shot to a close up, or alternating between a character's ongoing battle and a map of the environment. Nintendo DS makes it possible to perform the tasks in real time by simply glancing from one screen to the other.
Today's announcement is but a glimpse of the additional features and benefits that will be shown in full at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) in Los Angeles in May. Once fully revealed, players will see innovative advances in game interaction.
"We have developed Nintendo DS based upon a completely different concept from existing game devices in order to provide players with a unique entertainment experience for the 21st century," explains Satoru Iwata, Nintendo president.
Nintendo DS features two separate 3-inch TFT LCD display panels, separate processors, and semiconductor memory of up to 1 Gigabit. It's scheduled to launch worldwide before the end of 2004.
In addition to Nintendo-developed software, the company is in discussions with third-party game developers around the world.
Nintendo DS will be marketed separately from the company's existing Nintendo Game Boy® Advance portable system and Nintendo GameCube™ home console.
Jonathan says: ...well then. This is quite a surprise. I can imagine all the gameplay possibilities, but it's hard to know what to think without at least a picture of the thing. We don't even know how these screens will be arranged, or what buttons will be available, or how big the entire system is. And I have to wonder how many developers other than Nintendo will actually use this technology as anything more than a gimmick. But I'm optimistic and extremely curious.
Post by: Bloodworth on January 20, 2004, 05:47:57 PM
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 05:50:10 PM
Post by: StrikerObi on January 20, 2004, 05:50:33 PM
Post by: Ecrofirt on January 20, 2004, 05:51:27 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 20, 2004, 05:52:12 PM
Post by: mylasher on January 20, 2004, 05:54:41 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on January 20, 2004, 06:00:28 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 20, 2004, 06:03:51 PM
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on January 20, 2004, 06:05:04 PM
In fact, I'm intrigued with a couple of potential uses. One could be rear-view in a racing game, an expansive but quick to access stat/item menu, or a co-op friend's screen in a game like Doom.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 20, 2004, 06:06:10 PM
What does it look like?
How are the screens arranged?
What buttons does it have?
What connections does it have?
Can it link up for multiplayer?
Can two people play on the same unit?
Can it hook up to the GameCube?
Does it play Game Boy games?
Is it designed for 3D graphics?
How does adding an extra screen make gaming simpler?
What games is Nintendo developing for this thing?
Will third-parties actually use it for creative purposes?
More to come.
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 06:07:13 PM
I wonder how this will utilise existing software?
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
WTF
You have captured my feelings perfectly.
Post by: Chongman on January 20, 2004, 06:07:50 PM
ok, FIRST everyone whines about how connectivity sucks and how its useless, and now you're pointing out that perhaps this machine could be done by connectivity as well?
Make up your minds!!! Besides, this is completely different, its portable ;-)
it has potential, i'll give nintendo that...
Post by: Ghost_of_a_Flea on January 20, 2004, 06:08:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mylasher
Before I finished reading the article, I'd imagined two screens, head-to-head. It's supposed to have dual processors? Why? Maybe the screens can tilt apart and another controller could be added? That would be good. Maybe I'm just dreaming.
That's what I'm thinking; imagine portable, multi-player FPS (connect two Nintendo DS' together so each has their own screen, and a separate screen for radar). But through reading the article I kept thinking that this sounds like a creative successor to GBA. I know it's supposed to be the "third pillar", but if the Nintendo DS is reasonably priced and takes off, it sort of replaces the GBA as the portable system of choice. This is just a shot in the dark and based on nothing but my own assumptions, but it seems like they're holding off on saying this is the successor to GBA to avoid killing GBA sales. I just don't see owning two portable gaming systems from the same company as being reasonable.
So I'm holding off until E3, but right now I'm assuming this is the GBA II with an added twist of a second screen (this really intrigues me as it opens up worlds of possibilities). I believe Nintendo learned something from the Virtual Boy, so they should know hardware won't sell as a gimmick alone.
Post by: Pale on January 20, 2004, 06:09:08 PM
Post by: Chongman on January 20, 2004, 06:12:58 PM
if it has two screens, how can it NOT be badass? c'mon, I dont know if even nintendo can screw that design up.
just dont make it purple! BAH!
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 20, 2004, 06:13:11 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 20, 2004, 06:14:16 PM
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 06:14:24 PM
Quote
Will third-parties actually use it for creative purposes?
Yeah, im worried Nintendo will be the only company who will actually use this to it's full potential. We'll see though.
Imagine playing two minigames at a time in Wario Ware, double the insanity!
Oh, and, PSP killer.
Post by: StrikerObi on January 20, 2004, 06:14:38 PM
Quote
Today's announcement is but a glimpse of the additional features and benefits that will be shown in full at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) in Los Angeles in May.
Hmmm, this makes it sound like it will do more than play games. More fuel to add to the PSP argument.
Post by: Pale on January 20, 2004, 06:15:02 PM
Post by: RickPowers on January 20, 2004, 06:16:42 PM
Quote
Now, think about what might be possible with an LCD screen standard. Suppose the new console has the horsepower support video dual outputs. All those games that use the GBA as a secondary screen could now use the built-in LCD as that secondary screen. Now all those games that would have limited thier sales to just those that bought the screen can be used by the entire installed base. That's exciting. I'm not saying that this is what's going to happen, but the possibility is pretty neat.
Post by: uwvark on January 20, 2004, 06:17:22 PM
Post by: Pale on January 20, 2004, 06:20:01 PM
Post by: Rich on January 20, 2004, 06:22:15 PM
Post by: Ghost_of_a_Flea on January 20, 2004, 06:23:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: StrikerObi
Imagine 2 GBA SPs hooked together. There is no way this thing will be in the same price range as the GBA. I'm thinking this is Nintendo's answer to PSP, which means it will be a high-end product to keep it from wrekcing the GBA market.
I don't look for it to be near the price of the PSP, but I'm with you all the way, I don't see this for under $200. I'm actually surprised (and impressed) by this announcement; yes these things are possible in split-screens, but split screens on a portable device? I'm happy Nintendo went the creative route instead of simply bumping up the hardware specs and pushing out a new portable system. Of course this all depends on how third-parties adapt to the concept, so we have to wait and see, but there's a ton of possibilities!
Post by: the whatz that? on January 20, 2004, 06:30:27 PM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 20, 2004, 06:33:03 PM
Post by: GoldShadow1 on January 20, 2004, 06:34:14 PM
Post by: Smadte on January 20, 2004, 06:35:54 PM
And I don't think it's revolutionary, either. Soon they'll run out of ideas on how to use the 2 screens, and there will be games that only use one screen. How are you supposed to play a Mario game with 2 screens?!
Post by: MarioAllStar on January 20, 2004, 06:41:05 PM
One thing that I have questions about is this: How exactly will this system complement the others? To me, it seems like a GBA [SP] successor. I suppose connectivity between this system and the Cube/GBA is likely.
As for this following the road of the VB, I would sure hope not. I believe that Nintendo has had their share of mistakes and luckily has always recovered. Most of their failed attempts (No, the Gamecube is NOT a failure you XBOX fan boys) took place in the SNES era. The VB, the modem adaptor, the BS-X, etc. All of these were before there time or just were crappy ideas. The world is ready for this idea (and probably was in the SNES era as well) and I think that with proper marketing and 3rd party support it can be a great success.
I think many of us have learned from TWW not to quickly dismiss Nintendo's ideas but to give them a chance. So I say that we just be open to the idea and let's see what the Big N has in store this time around.
Also, I can easily see this as a 3D system. Having 1 GBit media storage is completely outragous for anything but that.
[How's that for a first post!]
Post by: Molobert on January 20, 2004, 06:48:42 PM
I really was hoping for a new online network though
. Maybe for the N5... Oh and it will have one gigaBIT of RAM, not one gigaBYTE. Just to clarify.
Post by: Gibdo Master on January 20, 2004, 06:48:51 PM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on January 20, 2004, 06:53:44 PM
Hosted by my friend at the Nformant because my personal webspace wouldn't cooperate and I didn't want to deal with PGC's anti-leeching software.
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 20, 2004, 06:57:07 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on January 20, 2004, 07:00:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
My concept design for Nintendo DS
GOLD++
Post by: ObsidianDragon on January 20, 2004, 07:04:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
My concept design for Nintendo DS
Hosted by my friend at the Nformant because my personal webspace wouldn't cooperate and I didn't want to deal with PGC's anti-leeching software.
That's harsh man, lets hope it doesn't turn out like the VB.
Honestly this has a lot of potential. However, it is unlcear how this is the "third Pillar" for nintendo. I think there is quite a bit they have not told us yet.
Post by: the whatz that? on January 20, 2004, 07:05:45 PM
Post by: WesDawg on January 20, 2004, 07:08:18 PM
Post by: MarioAllStar on January 20, 2004, 07:19:16 PM
I will say, though, that this doesn't seem like the usual Nintendo product.
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 07:37:24 PM
Post by: MarioAllStar on January 20, 2004, 07:38:33 PM
Post by: IWannaBeSponsored on January 20, 2004, 07:41:59 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 20, 2004, 07:49:35 PM
However while these ideas are neat and cool they DO NOT need their own hardware to be made possible. If they really wanted to make games like this they could have just made the N5 able to hook up to two TVs at once. As it's own hardware this is gimmicky at best. It would work okay as a successor to the GBA which has two screens and thus allows designers to use either only one if they want but as a "third pillar" this doesn't make sense.
I REALLY don't want to see Nintendo crash and burn but this really doesn't sound like something people are going to go nuts over. If they're depending a lot on this thing to carry them into the future they may be in big trouble.
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 07:54:02 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 20, 2004, 08:00:10 PM
If they're able to be moved (like two TVs) you can play a FPS death match on one machine without the other player seeing where you are. However I doubt a portable will allow for removable screens.
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 08:03:18 PM
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on January 20, 2004, 08:16:11 PM
This isn't a new idea, either. Some guy at Nintendo probably saw an old Game & Watch game and said "Why not?"
Post by: Shift Key on January 20, 2004, 08:17:36 PM
Interested? Yes. Curious? Hell yeah. But I just can't get excited over the vague description so far.
Speaking of the G&W, I used to have one. It was the Mario Bros game, and you controlled Mario and Luigi as they moved stuff along conveyor belts. Crazy stuff, I'd play it for hours on end. But now I can't find it. It was kewl...
Post by: Paronomasiac on January 20, 2004, 08:19:08 PM
Two screens, both backed by separate processors ? Hmm. Can you say Stereoscopic 3D ? While VB-ish, I think it would be great to play Virtual Mario in full color, where u ARE Mario, looking through his eyes .....
..Or I could be completely wrong.
I would love to know this gizmo's Form factor...
Mr. Paronomasiac
Post by: Ian Sane on January 20, 2004, 08:22:04 PM
Come to think of it they have been doing this "new hardware" thing a lot. Aside from the GBA SP there's also the e-Reader. This glut of hardware reminds me of the practices of a certain other console powerhouse that was a little too creative for it's own good and is now a third party.
Post by: jasonditz on January 20, 2004, 08:24:21 PM
I'm not worried about what happened to the VB here, because this one presumably won't have to carry a surgeon general's warning that it will permanantly damage your eyes if you play too long.
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 08:29:04 PM
Post by: Edisim on January 20, 2004, 08:30:29 PM
Hey, remember when I said Daniel Bloodworth was uptight/anal? HAHAHA. That was in regards to over-moderation on the boards.. Course, the message got deleted before long... as will this one probably.. no offense, though.. you all still rock!Quote
Apparently the system is not intended to be played by two people on a single unit; rather, a single player will be using both screens simultaneously.
Actually, the article doesn't specifically state that it can't be used by two players on a single unit. It's just seems to imply that it's mainly intended for use by one person. Of course, I'm not really up to date with all the news regarding this. But I believe that it's possible, even likely, that two players CAN play together using one Nintendo DS. Just look at Wario Ware... or whatever that gba wario game is called, where two players can play cooperatively, with one controlling the d-pad, and the other controlling the a and b buttons. (Was that even Wario?) Anyway, there's not much better use/excuse for two screens and two processors on a system than something like this. Except of course, Virtual Boy advance... and since nintendo basically considers the VB as never having existed, they can get away with saying the NDS isn't a successor to any existing hardware.
Quote
Today's announcement is but a glimpse of the additional features and benefits that will be shown in full at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) in Los Angeles in May. Once fully revealed, players will see innovative advances in game interaction.
Let's not forget the other claims:
unique [we can check that off the list],
will enable "fun and movement" not seen before,
is expected to become a third pillar next to GBA and GCN
(and will not be a full blown successor to any existing hardware),
and will be launched simultaneously worldwide if possible,
will/can communicate data wirelessly via radio,
and will indeed play back existing game titles...
Plus the recent announcement of dual screens, and dual processors..
What would impress me is if the orientation/position of the screens (and controls) could be rearranged to suit different games... remember battleship? and electronic battle ship? well, here comes NDS battleship!
What's the BS-X?
Post by: babaloulou on January 20, 2004, 08:31:51 PM
Post by: Edisim on January 20, 2004, 08:47:30 PM
(A rude Frenchman? C'mon.)
I wonder if they are releasing this thing 2004 to give it a chance to sell some units before n5 comes out.. the idea being that the NDS is really meant to be a companion piece to the n5 rather than gcn and/or gba.. and claims of 'it's a third pillar alongside gcn and gba' are really just an excuse to have this thing come out early..
hmm.. plays exiting games? layout similar to game and watch? game and watch and nes games on e-reader? ... GOD, Nintendo, take a step FORWARD.
Btw, Bloodworth, I just read your favorite quote (in your profile) and I sincerely apologize if I have ever offended you or your friends or your co-workers in anyway.
(That's a joke. It's all in good fun..) Hey, here's another joke.. Uptight/anal? Blood? ... I'm afraid to put 2 and 2 together...
Now, let's see if I get banned.. or if the jokes get deleted. or both.Hey, here's a dumb idea: how bout using the 'top' screen to show stuff in the air/space above you, and the lower screen to show the battlefield/ground below you as you battle through whatever?
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 20, 2004, 09:08:59 PM
I am now and forever emotionally scarred.
Quote
Speaking of the G&W, I used to have one. It was the Mario Bros game, and you controlled Mario and Luigi as they moved stuff along conveyor belts. Crazy stuff, I'd play it for hours on end. But now I can't find it. It was kewl...
Haha... I had that game. Loved it... Used to get crazy high scores back in the day. If your high score got high enough bonus time started, where the packages counted double...
Come to think of it, this announcement immediately made me visualise that G&W. If they did it that way, it could be playable by one or two players.
Post by: Nosferatu on January 20, 2004, 09:21:56 PM
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 10:08:53 PM
But what im confused about is how you can control both screens at once without getting really confused, it would have to have two d-pads or analogue sticks.. or maybe there's a whole new way of controlling the game? There are certainly a lot of possibilities, im excited!
Post by: Larrs528 on January 20, 2004, 10:42:23 PM
Something like this could expalin the comment about movement.
-larrs
Post by: pook on January 20, 2004, 11:06:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?
well, that's why THEY are game designers and WE (especially YOU) are not.
Post by: N5Creator on January 20, 2004, 11:08:32 PM
Anywayz
I was just thinking that didnt somebody just guess that ds stood for dual screen or was it made official. That would be a hard spec to carry off especially with virtual boy doing so badly when it had the same ideas. If nintendo did make it dual screens wouldnt that mean that this has all been seen b4 therefore it wouldnt new and inovative? I cant remember who it was but spotting that ds was sp upside down was kool
Post by: Mario on January 20, 2004, 11:13:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pookQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?
well, that's why THEY are game designers and WE (especially YOU) are not.
Yes i know that, i was just wondering what people were thinking, it doesn't hurt to discuss things does it (especially in a FORUM).
Post by: DrZoidberg on January 20, 2004, 11:19:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pookQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?
well, that's why THEY are game designers and WE (especially YOU) are not.
i know every detail of your life from what you post here, and thus i can determin you definatly lack the skills and mental fortitude required to even consider designing games.
pook has gained: +23 arrogance point(s), ++1 post count point(s)
personally i'll be down if they include some form of mp3 playback, even if it's minor, and if this features GBA support (hopefully) the second screen could be used to have funky ID3 tag scrolling or some such, as for games, Metroid screen one Map screen two, DS Wars screen one, Statistics and Data Screen two. oh hay, i guess i'm a games designer now rhhrhr
Post by: Procession on January 21, 2004, 12:18:27 AM
As humans we cannot control two different elements at one time. It is beyond our evolutionary capabilities. Maybe a couple of billion generations down the track but certainly not now. Therefore, the 2 screen idea has seriously limited potential. I hear "oh, for maps, inventory" etc. So? How hard is it to press a button to bring that up then resume to your game. Exactly the same as having two screens. Both methods involve a change of focus. Even driving a car, looking in the rear view mirror changes where your attention is directed and seriously limits your ability to look at the road ahead.
That is why this "idea" is stupid. It isn't innovative, it isn't incredibly clever, just incredibly flawed. "Hey, here's an idea, why don't we stick two screens on it!". Doh.
Nintendo, drop this one, lick your wounds before they incur and do something neat with Sharp's new 3D displays.
Post by: Mario on January 21, 2004, 12:36:27 AM
Post by: bubicus on January 21, 2004, 12:37:51 AM
One of the first ideas that popped into my head was something like Mario and Luigi in 3D. You could, as Luigi, order Mario to do something and watch him start performing it on one screen. You could then do something independently, and time your actions together with the AI.
Or how about a game like Diablo, where you have your view and a view from a teammate, so you can see when your teammate needs assistance? Or there could be puzzles like in the old '80s Magic Candle RPG series, where you would split up your party and try to perform tasks in small groups all over the continent at the same time, and you could toggle between the parties whenever needed.
Or how about a game like Unreal Tournament CTF, where your view would be on one screen, and like X2: The Threat, your teammates' views are in the other. You could play wirelessly and coordinate your actions with your teammates, not unlike real-time chat combined with live video feeds from helmetcams.
Anyway, I can think of many more ideas for a dual-screen system, so I'm sure Nintendo already has, too.
Post by: ruby_onix on January 21, 2004, 01:26:29 AM
Post by: Rize on January 21, 2004, 01:38:42 AM
How are the screens arranged? According to an email sent out to certain people on some American Nintendo list... they will be arranged "vertically". Does this mean that the screens will be vertical, or horiztonal and stacked one on top of the other. It sounds like the latter... I think no other set up woudl make sense. I imagine a traditional GBA setup with a GBA SP like flop top for the second screen (which would certainly have the weaker of the two processors, the ARM7).
Can it link up for multiplayer? Almost certainly.
Can two people play on the same unit? Almost certainly not. Just imagine a second guy trying to play on a screen that another guy is holding/moving.
Does it play Game Boy games? No.
Is it designed for 3D graphics? With an ARM9 and ARM7, no more than the GBA I would think.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2004, 01:39:56 AM
Post by: Rize on January 21, 2004, 01:44:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DrZoidbergQuote
Originally posted by: pookQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?
well, that's why THEY are game designers and WE (especially YOU) are not.
i know every detail of your life from what you post here, and thus i can determin you definatly lack the skills and mental fortitude required to even consider designing games.
pook has gained: +23 arrogance point(s), ++1 post count point(s)
personally i'll be down if they include some form of mp3 playback, even if it's minor, and if this features GBA support (hopefully) the second screen could be used to have funky ID3 tag scrolling or some such, as for games, Metroid screen one Map screen two, DS Wars screen one, Statistics and Data Screen two. oh hay, i guess i'm a games designer now rhhrhr
For all of those arrogance points, you didn't do much better my friend.
Imagine a game with an AI character somewhere doing something without your control. You could use the second screen to keep an eye on him (for any number of reasons).
Taking current games and putting the pause menus on the second screen is not very innovative (though I'm sure it will happen more than once).
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2004, 01:52:58 AM
Nintendo DS: 128 MB ram (I believe that's approx. around 1 Gig)
PSP: 8 MB ram
Strangely enough, I thought it would have been the other way around...
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 21, 2004, 02:31:06 AM
Post by: Kudou-Yusaku on January 21, 2004, 02:38:13 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 21, 2004, 02:45:44 AM
Two screens make sense. Descent allows you to make one of your stats screens show the view of the guidebot (Descent 2 only), missile view, rear view, etc. The UT2003 mod U4eT2003 has a weapon (tomahawk) that fires guided missiles that get their own little view in your main view. Like mentioned, team sports games would allow you to have a large overview of the playing field for planning your moves.
There's no reason this cannot be done with a larger screen, but that'd be inefficent concerning the size of the device
Post by: Serebii on January 21, 2004, 02:48:27 AM
HOWEVER
This is not a Game Boy
This is the third Pillar they were speaking of that goes WITH The GameBoy and WITH the Gamecube/N5
Post by: joshnickerson on January 21, 2004, 02:52:14 AM
Post by: yellowfellow on January 21, 2004, 03:04:23 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on January 21, 2004, 03:12:44 AM
edit: mega...ton shows up as Never Happening
Post by: darknight06 on January 21, 2004, 03:18:38 AM
Post by: Perfect Cell on January 21, 2004, 03:35:00 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on January 21, 2004, 03:39:07 AM
Post by: Mario on January 21, 2004, 03:41:19 AM
Post by: Retroyoshi on January 21, 2004, 04:10:30 AM
Hear me out!
2- 3" screens positioned side by side with touch sensitive screens (perhaps pressure sensitive also) would make positionable buttons possible... Or perhaps one of the screens are to be used as a controller for the top screen? Or maybe it's to be used as an additional gameplay screen for the new console plus a control pad- but can also be taken on the road.
This would justify calling it a 3rd pillar I suppose.
Just a couple of ideas...
Post by: Retroyoshi on January 21, 2004, 04:11:36 AM
(sorry for the double post, I thought "quick post" would append my last)
Post by: Pale on January 21, 2004, 04:13:27 AM
No more talking until we have more info, my mind has a mix of anger and anxiety that I dno't want to deal with right now. =P
Post by: Ghost_of_a_Flea on January 21, 2004, 04:14:34 AM
I still don't think this is a "third pillar" as much as it's a high-end GBA. The PSP and DS won't be marketed toward the same user-base as the GBA (mainly kids). Obviously we'll hear more at E3, but I expect this device to compete with the PSP on a few levels... Everyone's looking at this as a device to JUST play on dual-screens; I believe it's a device to compete with the PSP that allows you to play on dual-screens. I'm sure Nintendo's been working on the answer to PSP for a while, and I think they want to go head-to-head with Sony in this market; if all goes well at E3 I think everyone could be pleasantly surprised. Everyone's jumping to conclusions comparing this to VB when we barely know any of the specs.
Post by: Mario on January 21, 2004, 04:51:12 AM
Another idea, what if one of the screens is see-through? Nah that's impossible...
Post by: couchmonkey on January 21, 2004, 04:55:36 AM
Pros:
- you don't have to buy extra hardware which I think is a big part of the problem for connectivity
- even when it's not used well, having an extra screen wouldn't be a bad thing
- I'm secretly thrilled to see the cartridge format is still being used
Cons:
- extra screen = extra money, will the innovations that come out of it be worth the cost?
- dual processors? Wasn't this a nightmare for developers on the Saturn?
- third parties will probably be annoyed that the cartridge format is still being used
I'm also hoping Nintendo gives this system enough juice to play 3D games. I know that's not the "point", but I think Nintendo is just begging to give away its handheld market share by not releasing a system with similar 3D capabilities to the PSP. But I'll reserve my judgement until I see the hardware and some games.
Post by: Pale on January 21, 2004, 04:55:46 AM
Post by: Knoxxville on January 21, 2004, 04:56:15 AM
"It's Delux, son, Delux.....get it right...."
Post by: Clonester on January 21, 2004, 05:01:39 AM
In a pass situation, you could have the one screen viewing the field, as is the case now. With the second screen, it could feature a closeup of the primary receiver for the play, so you can watch him to see if he: beats the defender covering him, finds a gap in zone coverage, or breaks open in a slant or square (etc.) route. That would be awesome!!!!
And you could have replays and the such on the second screen, so the game finishes faster. The possibilities that have now opened up are endless! Now developers (particularly third parties) will have to use their brains; Hopefully they do.
Post by: Sarail on January 21, 2004, 05:08:55 AM
Now don't get me wrong.. I LOVE the Virtual Boy.. it's a great, innovative system. But no one bought in to it. And that's going to be what plagues this system from getting anywhere. Good luck Nintendo. I can actually see now that you are in fact, "losing it", and are running out of ideas. Makes you wonder doesn't it? Considering EAD has only pumped out TWO games this whole time for the GameCube. Yeah.. But I seriously don't wanna see Nintendo go the way of Sega. But it's looking more and more like it everyday... They SHOULD be concentrating on their home console market.. which is FAR MORE important than a dumb dual screen portable will ever be. If Nintendo's gonna put this kinda crap on us, then their next console system better be jacked to the roof. The "N5" better kick some serious arse. Looks like Nintendo's down to their last strike. Don't mess it up guys.
Post by: chlupe on January 21, 2004, 05:17:21 AM
Yet.
I admit to being disappointed, as it sounds from first impressions that Nintendo said, "Heeey! Dude, we've got... TWO... screens! That's like, DOUBLE of one!" In short, sounds like a gimmick at first.
With everyone's ideas, this could turn into something better... for once, I am going to hold my breath -- but I can't help but be disappointed at first. I won't judge though.
I like the idea that someone pointed out -- including that mock-up art -- of the device being a controller. This could have been a better compliment to Crystal Chronicles in that at least they could add more buttons and functionality to it (of course I have no idea how CC plays yet, so take that statement with a grain of salt and maybe some pepper).
I don't, however, feel very intrigued by the possibility that it's just going to be a new system with new games. Someone said they're over-saturating the market with hardware, and s/he might be correct. This is now different because let's say that, instead of being an add-on, it simply turns out to be more of an individual unit with its own games (using its 1 Gbit media) ... so we just have another entrant into the "console" market (in quotes because I'm including portables in this classification). Cannibalizing GBA sales or GCN sales of hardware *and* software.
I will wait and see. But until I see, I can't help but feel dejected.
Post by: MarioAllStar on January 21, 2004, 05:20:29 AM
Post by: Mario on January 21, 2004, 05:26:20 AM
Heh, i guess this product is gonna be pretty hard to pirate huh?
As for game ideas, for a game like Burnout, on one screen you see the race normally, while on the other you see it in "crash mode". In Animal Crossing or The Sims or something, you could set up a video camera somewhere, then wander off, and on the other screen you can see through the camera you planted, for example you could put a camera at the front of your house to watch out for burglers. In RE0 this would let you control both characters at the same time less clumsily. In Mario Kart you can see behind in the other screen, so you can aim your shells properly when shooting people behind you, and also dodge shells coming at you. I'm sure the geniouses at Nintendo can think of much better uses than that.
Post by: Retroyoshi on January 21, 2004, 05:29:16 AM
. Heck, I remember saying the same thing about 3D mario or even the original game boy.
Post by: - NintendoFan - on January 21, 2004, 05:45:30 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 21, 2004, 05:47:27 AM
1. Two screens is just one of the features of this thing.
2. Two screens can do whatever one screen can do.
3. One screen cannot do whatever two screens can do.
I mean, Nintendo adds functionality to a system and people still bitch.
To shut the haters up, consider this:
Which is better, one or two analogue sticks?
Post by: monk72 on January 21, 2004, 05:53:43 AM
But it got me thinking of uses in game for it.
Maybe Mario128 is actually for this device (remember rumors of it NOT being on GC?)
And remeber the rumors of it being a 2D/3D hybrid? 1 screen 2D, the other 3D at the same time?
Or what about Zelda games that you see in first person (this would be alot like metroid prime), and the other screen is either OOT style, or overhead Link to the past style.
Or Zelda wind waker style literally warps to the other screen into another "world" and actually is able to turned into realistic graphics/settings.
Or smash bros. game that when you SMASH the players gets belted onto the other other screen for additonal power ups, or additional fighting, or whatever.
Think of the 2nd screen as another world, another goal, another view, another room, another menu, another player (?), or how about a FPS with your perspective on 1 screen, the enemies on the other? or a racing game with similar concepts?
Or racing with a view from the drivers seat, and one overhead, or 1 view of outside shot, 1 of the gauges?
But I think Nintendo would have developed more uses than dual screens, OTHER than alternate views.
maybe onscreen characters controlled by 1 at the same time (think Pikmin 2)?
And imagine carrying this thing around "is that a THIRD PILLAR in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 21, 2004, 06:03:20 AM
Think of Zelda: a Link to the Past.
Think of switching between two worlds.
Imagine both worlds, one on each screen, with a shadow Link in the world he's not currently in.
You'd know exactly where Link would end up, and you'd know what the other world looked like for a particular area without switching between them all the time.
Post by: - NintendoFan - on January 21, 2004, 06:10:38 AM
Post by: monk72 on January 21, 2004, 06:19:38 AM
Mario (on page 3) stated similar ideas which I had in my post (on page 5).
I only read the first page and began brainstorming in my own post.
You know what they say..."great minds... ...play nintendo"
hey another quote to add to my sig...nice.
Post by: The Doc on January 21, 2004, 06:22:00 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on January 21, 2004, 06:45:24 AM
Post by: Minsc on January 21, 2004, 06:50:06 AM
Procession mentioned earlier that humans are unable to control two different elements at one time. While that may be true we can quickly shift our focus between two elements (screens ;o) with out any loss in concentration. If we couldn't then we wouldn't be able to use the side and rear view mirrors when we drive.
Now, why use two screens when split screen on one larger on could be used? The answer is simple, developers would rarely use split screen (outside of multiplayer). How many single player games are there today today that makes heavy use of split screen?
This dual-screen handheld sounds very interesting, Nintendo has definately gotten my attention with this. I'll wait atleast until after E3 to pass my final judgement. So far it looks promising.
Post by: vudu on January 21, 2004, 06:51:54 AM
Quotehas anyone else played the bonus pearl mini-game (from mdisk 14, aquired by collecting all 88 pearls) in beyond good & evil? it could be sort of like that, with two analog sticks (or d-pads) and a button or two for each one. although, it would be hard to contrive an entire game around it. but i would like to see a mario & luigi 2, where the two brothers can split up.
Originally posted by: Mario
IBut what im confused about is how you can control both screens at once without getting really confused, it would have to have two d-pads or analogue sticks.. or maybe there's a whole new way of controlling the game? There are certainly a lot of possibilities, im excited!
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2004, 07:04:56 AM
2. Two screens can do whatever one screen can do.
3. One screen cannot do whatever two screens can do."
Exactly. That's one of the problems with this thing. A dual screen portable makes the one screen GBA redundant. Now if this was merely the next Gameboy designed to replace the GBA then there's no problem. But as a "third pillar" designed to co-exist with the GBA and Gamecube it's ensuring the failure of a Nintendo device. If it plays only two screen games then it likely won't take off because I can't see a console designed solely for that purpose being successful or even having many games. If it also plays one screen games then it will essentially kill the GBA, right in time for the PSP (ie: the worst time ever to kill off the GBA), because there's no need for two Nintendo portables that can play the same types of games.
I'm wondering if in fact this IS supposed to be the GBA successor but Nintendo just is pretending that it's something new so as to not discourage GBA sales right when the PSP launches.
Post by: Pale on January 21, 2004, 07:38:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Exactly. That's one of the problems with this thing. A dual screen portable makes the one screen GBA redundant. Now if this was merely the next Gameboy designed to replace the GBA then there's no problem. But as a "third pillar" designed to co-exist with the GBA and Gamecube it's ensuring the failure of a Nintendo device. If it plays only two screen games then it likely won't take off because I can't see a console designed solely for that purpose being successful or even having many games. If it also plays one screen games then it will essentially kill the GBA, right in time for the PSP (ie: the worst time ever to kill off the GBA), because there's no need for two Nintendo portables that can play the same types of games.
I think one of the main keys here is that it isn't really a third pillar. I think the third pillar concept is all marketing. Nintendo doesn't want to squash sales of the GBA so they aren't gonna say a replacement is gonna be out in 10 months. I would be it will take the place of the GBA, and I will also bet that launch titles for the N5 will make full use of this and that is why they are launching it early. Thats just my theory.
Post by: Perfect Cell on January 21, 2004, 07:57:59 AM
Post by: chlupe on January 21, 2004, 08:16:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: nolimit19
can you really see 2 screens becoming a standard??? i can not....thats why i am convinced of a super flop.
2 screens being a standard -- why not?
Post by: Jale on January 21, 2004, 08:20:16 AM
Post by: Berto2K on January 21, 2004, 08:37:48 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2004, 08:47:06 AM
Please stop complaining like spoiled little kids, and wait for some more concrete info and images...
Post by: gwgtrunks on January 21, 2004, 08:50:41 AM
RPG's and maps... and character stats, items...
Pokemon with a map and Pokedex open on one, the game on another.
Sports games with the field on one screen, plays or what ever on the other.
This thing has a LOT of possibilities, but will they get used? the GBA-GCN had a lot of possibilities... and so did Virtual Boy. Hopefully Iwata pulls it off better than Yamauchi did.
Post by: vudu on January 21, 2004, 09:22:50 AM
i really don't think any of us are coming even close to hitting the nail on the head with what this is capable of. closest thing i've seen so far is mario's idea for pikmin or my own for mario & luigi.
Post by: Toole on January 21, 2004, 09:28:54 AM
Yes, it's very likely that both screens will be used in different ways to play a game, but let's look at the proposed power of this handheld.
With what Nintendo are proposing I think it's quite likely that we could see a portable machine that not only plays games on the main screen (with added extras on the 2nd screen) but has a switchable user interface that would allow you to have mp3 tracklistings on the second screen, or maybe even some kind of video support (not unlike the mpeg playback capalities of the GP32 handheld). The fact that this system has a seperate processor for each screen means that it's probably going to do alot more than just display 2d maps, radars and options menus on the 2nd screen.
I can see this being Nintendo's first venture into possibly making an effective portable multimedia device, that you can still play games on while it's performing it's multimedia tricks.
I know non of this is confirmed and I could be totally wrong - but I just think that with the power they're proposing, this is the most obvious reason for having 2 screens...
Post by: Pale on January 21, 2004, 09:34:00 AM
Post by: Michael8983 on January 21, 2004, 09:37:04 AM
So until we start seeing some of its games, we shouldn't judge.
Post by: vudu on January 21, 2004, 09:45:57 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on January 21, 2004, 10:04:06 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 21, 2004, 10:24:49 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on January 21, 2004, 10:29:07 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2004, 10:35:24 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2004, 10:41:17 AM
Post by: odifiend on January 21, 2004, 10:44:42 AM
Post by: jasonditz on January 21, 2004, 10:46:05 AM
For the million threads here and elsewhere of people going "I know what the new system is going to be" and then coming up with something stupid... I never once saw anything remotely DS-like predicted.
Post by: Nile Boogie on January 21, 2004, 10:53:51 AM
Post by: JB on January 21, 2004, 11:21:46 AM
What I am curious about is why Nintendo have decided to switch to a TFT-screen? TFT-screens have to be backlit for you to see anything at all(unlike the front-lit screen of the GBASP, where are still able to see the screen under normal lighting conditions if the front-light is switched off), and a second screen would certainly put a drain on the battery-life.
And why do I get the impression the NDS is going to look like Samsung's E700 phone?
Post by: the_zombie_luke on January 21, 2004, 11:31:23 AM
Nintendo DS Details
Post by: Robageejammin on January 21, 2004, 11:33:12 AM
You people...lol you really make me laugh sometimes. I think if Nintendo said theyd be releasing a console that digitally transports you into another 3d world, youd still find something bad to say lol. "Oh umm welll err when you go in da gamee its likeee...bad..resolution and umm....da polygons feel so fake!" lol. Just have a really open mind. Instead of "OHH this is floppy mcflopbags!" just think about it. You know Nintendos gonna do something amazing with this. Shiggy + DS = werdness. You know its not just gonna be just a rear view mirror or a map or any other obvious feature. I've already heard some friggin awesome ideas from reading ALL of the posts before this like pikmin or the zelda light/dark world ideas. But thats just from us ordinary forum junkies, can you imagine what kinda crap Shiggy and co. will come up with?! As far as 3rd party shinanigens go, I think developers will jump at this. If i was a developer (which i soon hope to be ) i would be going insane with ideas right now. I know we said it before, but the possibilities really are endless and in my opinion will overflow even past the DS's lifespan. And whoever says it'll be like virtual boy is just stupid. you cant compare the two at all.
Anyway, the big picture is that Nintendo is doing something different, which says alot. And im sure that when the N5 is ready to debut, it will also be "different".
Good god, my excitement for going to E3 this year just grew 100 times more...and for the millionth time TYP, thanks for the info.
Post by: JB on January 21, 2004, 11:36:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
The DS is backlit. There are some new details at 1up.com:
Nintendo DS Details
All TFT-screens have to be backlit in order for you to see anything. In daylight without a backlit a TFT-screen would be harder to see than Castlevania: Circle of the Moon on an original GBA without the Afterburner-mod in a dark room without any light at all.
Post by: MarioAllStar on January 21, 2004, 11:44:59 AM
Post by: mattcube on January 21, 2004, 11:48:52 AM
Nintendo has something up its sleeves. I can smell it. I mean something big. This just released announcment isn't what we've been waiting for, but rather we are all still waiting. Ninty's plans for the DS could be a complete failure, but I doubt it. There's more to this announcment than meets the eye. This DS isn't going to be a quick cash-in. It's going to be THE product that shows Nintendo can innovate, and do it well.
You can quote me, and flame me later down the road. But, Nintendo has much more in store for the DS than we could ever imagine.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on January 21, 2004, 11:57:21 AM
If I get a job, the price won't really matter, cause I'm going to buy it.
The concept of two screens has many possibilities, and I'm sure Nintendo will find many uses for the GC/N5 connection.
Interesting.......
Post by: Perfect Cell on January 21, 2004, 12:02:48 PM
I actually disagree. Nintendo reps have mentioned the DVD playback capibilities of the PS2 as a reason for its great sales. Plus remember they did have the Panasonic Q system. I fully expect the next Nintendo system to have DVD playback.
When it comes to the NDS. Theres 2 things i wanted to mention, i hope they once again work with Motorola and give it wireless multiplayer. Game link cables are a way of the past, and seccond if it had MP3 Capabilites it would make it alot more interesting. Id be more interested in it really
Post by: Switchblade Cross on January 21, 2004, 12:15:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Your average casual gamer will look at PSP and DS, "Hmmmm, PSP looks cool. Hey look at that, DS has two screens! PSP is like, so one screened!". [/slight generalisation]
Another idea, what if one of the screens is see-through? Nah that's impossible...
Well, Nintendo did say it would be one screen "on top" of the other. Maybe they do not ne vertically but rather depth wise, one screen BEHIND the other. If the first were transparent you would be able to see both the screens simultaniuously. If the screens filckered in alternating intervals at about 60 or more per second, and if the pixels in each matrix were angled correctly, each eye would only see the image of one screen, creating a truly 3D gaming environment, where items would literally come out of the screen to whom ever was in the correct viewing position
Post by: JB on January 21, 2004, 12:17:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mattcube
Well, Considering that atleast 1 CPU is running on an ARM9 proccessor, I can confidently say this will be 3d capable, as Tapwave's Zodiac runns on the exact same thing. However, the Zodiac also has a dedicate ATI Imageon graphics card. Besisdes, Sony has been releasing specs lately that the PSP's graphics are going to be closer to PS2 more than PSOne. So, I don't think these will be fighting head-to-head. Although I do believe these will both be around $250-$300. Don't flame me just yet!
Nintendo has something up its sleeves. I can smell it. I mean something big. This just released announcment isn't what we've been waiting for, but rather we are all still waiting. Ninty's plans for the DS could be a complete failure, but I doubt it. There's more to this announcment than meets the eye. This DS isn't going to be a quick cash-in. It's going to be THE product that shows Nintendo can innovate, and do it well.
You can quote me, and flame me later down the road. But, Nintendo has much more in store for the DS than we could ever imagine.
This is not meant as bashing Sony, but Sony claimed the PS2 could handle 70 million+ polygons per second ingame, whereas it can only handle about 10 million. In other words: I'll believe Sony's claims about the PSP when I'll see it in action with my own eyes.
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2004, 12:17:37 PM
I don't...The PS2/DVD idea sold well due to the fact it was released when DVD players were still very expensive...Why pick up an expensive DVD player when you can get one for the same price(or less) with a gaming system included?
Almost everyone who wanted a DVD player would have one(either as part of their PS2/Xbox or a better brand), and would only add to the cost...I already have a nice Toshiba DVD player that is twice as good as the ones included in my PS2 and Xbox's put together...I do NOT need a 4th...
Post by: Pale on January 21, 2004, 12:36:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
I honestly don't see nintendo leaving their Game Machine Only mentality.
I actually disagree. Nintendo reps have mentioned the DVD playback capibilities of the PS2 as a reason for its great sales. Plus remember they did have the Panasonic Q system. I fully expect the next Nintendo system to have DVD playback.
When it comes to the NDS. Theres 2 things i wanted to mention, i hope they once again work with Motorola and give it wireless multiplayer. Game link cables are a way of the past, and seccond if it had MP3 Capabilites it would make it alot more interesting. Id be more interested in it really
If N5 is based on a normal sized DVD media, you are probalby right, because it would be hella cheap. I'm talking about putting phone, mp3 playback, video playback, garbage in a hand held. That won't happen unless they change their whole philosophy.
Post by: thepoga on January 21, 2004, 12:52:26 PM
The main point of the dual screens is so that u cross ur eyes and it becomes 3D! heh, but seriously, there has GOT to be more than the two screens in my opinion. Nintendo isn't stupid and this sort of thing costs a lot of money. And they have never made a bad portable gaming console. haha except for the virtual boy. maybe this is the virtual boy 2! except ten times better! which is still not that great.
Post by: Mario on January 21, 2004, 01:00:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Can the admins put a cap on the discussion of the DS until we have som actual information, like with Never Happening or Wind Waker?
Why? What else do we have to discuss? We do have some actual information, it will have two screens.
You know, revealing only this limited bit of info early is actually smart, since this is getting all the negative responces out now, rather than E3, which they plan to 'steal the show' by showing off the actual Nintendo DS. If they held off on these details until E3, then everyone will think it's a disaster and be electing the same responces they are now (well not everyone). If you catch my drift...
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 21, 2004, 01:05:52 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2004, 01:09:18 PM
Post by: Mario on January 21, 2004, 01:12:55 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 21, 2004, 01:28:11 PM
Post by: savanna03 on January 21, 2004, 01:30:25 PM
Post by: Perfect Cell on January 21, 2004, 01:35:39 PM
Post by: babaloulou on January 21, 2004, 01:56:39 PM
------
Post by: Epitaph on January 21, 2004, 02:00:18 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 21, 2004, 02:03:09 PM
Post by: B00tleg on January 21, 2004, 03:07:58 PM
Post by: yellowfellow on January 21, 2004, 03:13:52 PM
Quote
Adults must be pretty stupid by that logic. I hate extra features. I didn't buy my Game Boy to organize notes, I didn't buy my cell phone to play games, I didn't buy my MP3 player to organize notes OR play games (go to hell iPod). I really don't want Nintendo to add in extra crap and I firmly believe that they won't.
it's the just value of a dollar. with money as the uttmost important factor in sustaining a comfortable standard of living, people need to feel as if their purchases are warrented.
Post by: Seryll on January 21, 2004, 03:18:08 PM
. . . Just hope it doesn't end up like another Virtual Boy.
Post by: GoldShadow1 on January 21, 2004, 05:01:55 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on January 21, 2004, 05:09:54 PM
I don't expect that this will replace the GBA, or fight off the PSP, or anything like that. IMO, Nintendo's just making a new toy. A continuation of what the Virtual Boy should've been, if anyone (including Nintendo) had allowed Nintendo to explore things that "aren't popular". And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I personally think that the PSP will fall when it goes up against the one-two punch of the current GBA and then the upcoming GBA2. But Sony won't roll over and die like Nokia. Which is where this new NDS will step in and provide an entertaining contest. The PocketStation 2 versus the Virtual Boy 2! No holds barred!
Anyways, I'm more interested in the fact that the cart size is (up to) 1 gigabit (the GBA's max cart size was 256 megabits, until shortly before the launch of the GBA SP, when that spec was mysteriously removed from official GBA specs). And the fact that Nintendo now seems confident that they can offer backlighting on a GBA-sized screen, times two, in a portable, battery-powered (presumably) unit.
Post by: Chongman on January 21, 2004, 05:10:06 PM
nintendo gave us just enough information to leave most of us at least slightly satiated. This is, afterall, quite a shock to most everyone. Had they unveiled at E3, most people I think would not have taken it well. This way we can at least digest some of the nintendo gold thats assuradly to come. Trust me, it'll be big news. In any case, what do we really know? Next to nothing compared to what nintendo most likely has truly planned.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on January 21, 2004, 05:24:04 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on January 21, 2004, 05:35:28 PM
Post by: Geno911 on January 21, 2004, 06:58:28 PM
Post by: Matrix on January 21, 2004, 07:21:49 PM
http://members.shaw.ca/lordmatrix/nds.jpg
(Hi, guys! Been awhile)
Post by: GoldShadow1 on January 21, 2004, 08:04:33 PM
Okay, good point. But until Nintendo releases more info, I'm still skeptical.
"2. Two screens can do whatever one screen can do"
They can, but unless it has a design capable of moving one screen out of the way, it would be extremely annoying to see a blank screen filling up half of your vision while you play a game. One of my pet peeves is a lack of symmetry.
"3. One screen cannot do whatever two screens can do"
Yes it can. Split screen games have been around for ages. The only difference is that it each screen is slightly smaller - which could be retified by a larger screen.
"To shut the haters up, consider this:
Which is better, one or two analogue sticks?"
Analog sticks are different. For one thing, they're independent of each other - there's no way an analog stick could be split the way a screen can. Also, they're methods of control, which in my book is much more important than a method of display.
Post by: Edisim on January 21, 2004, 08:19:54 PM
Quote
"is that a THIRD PILLAR in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"
LOL. Best. Third. Pillar. Joke. Ever.
Quote
I honestly don't see nintendo leaving their Game Machine Only mentality.
I agree that Nintendo is a games-oriented company, but that spiel was just their answer/excuse for not having the entertainment capabilities of the xbox and ps2. With Nintendo giving in and making the gameboy player and the Q, I can see them giving in to other consumer demand. Not that I think they will, just that's it's not as unlikely as it used to be.
Quote
Well, using my mad photoshop skillz and a little creativity, I have predicted EXACTLY what Nintendo's new console will look like... http://members.shaw.ca/lordmatrix/nds.jpg
LOL
Funniest "mock up" yet.The specs given in the update would seem to suggest that it could play gba and and maybe gcn games... the media used (cartridges?) would indicate that maybe it won't store or play gcn games directly though.. maybe n64 games.. crappy ique... nevermind.
The problem with most of the ideas given so far is that, as has been pointed out, they can all be achieved through split screen. What is intriguing, though (at least to me), is whoever-it-was's idea of a touch screen and a transparent lcd. You could have, let's say, the lower lcd (the transparent touch screen) almost literally be the control panel of a space ship or tank or whatever.
Another possiblity is that the two screens on one system could be used sorta like the gcn and gba together in head-to-head games. One screen (the one powered by the more powerful processor--assuming that each has a dedicated processor, and not just for graphics) could be for the view that would normally be on the tv, and the other screen (and processor) could show and process your own secret stuff... This wouldn't really work on split-screened tv, but could be done through the existing systems, gcn and gba... but not many developers have.
It is sort of interesting that Nintendo will do things with their hardware to either encourage or force developers to do something more; remember how the n64 had loads of 4 player games because it had 4 built-in controller ports even though they could have easily made and sold an adapter, and how the gcn controller setup sorta forced developers to make controls more intuitive? ... Ok, the controller example isn't a strong one. But you get the jist..
I never doubt Nintendo's software, but hardware is a different story. And I'm not just refering to the Virtual Boy. Nintendo does release hardware that doesn't necessarily open up new worlds of gaming possibilities. Think about it. They do it to make money. No other games company makes more money (or loses less) on their gaming hardware than Nintendo.
Post by: Mannypon on January 21, 2004, 08:48:35 PM
Post by: Kyosho on January 21, 2004, 09:42:58 PM
btw, if any of u are Insiders, IGN has a round table posted up on the editor's thoughts. One word to describe the whole atmosphere: surprised.
Post by: Pale on January 22, 2004, 02:31:57 AM
The Q was put out by Panasonic and its already been canned. I think that gets rid of that thought. And how does the Gameboy Player take away from being a Games only machine? And when was the last time you heard the argument that someone went ps2 cause it can play games? People are realizing how cheap and better dvd players are, they aren't worried about that anymore.
Post by: WesDawg on January 22, 2004, 04:22:05 AM
Yes it can. Split screen games have been around for ages. The only difference is that it each screen is slightly smaller - which could be retified by a larger screen."
The difference is this thing has a processor for each screen. If you just doubled the screen size of the GBA the little guy would probably have trouble keeping up. With this theres no performance hit for using the extra screen space.
Post by: AManatee2 on January 22, 2004, 04:50:34 AM
Just think. A zelda game with the map always available there for you. Third parties will probably just use it as a map hehe.
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 22, 2004, 06:23:20 AM
QuoteI take it you haven't heard that both screens can act as one screen.
They can, but unless it has a design capable of moving one screen out of the way, it would be extremely annoying to see a blank screen filling up half of your vision while you play a game. One of my pet peeves is a lack of symmetry.
QuoteIsn't that what they did? They have a larger screen now if they want it... and a separate processor for each side of the screen. You know what the biggest problems with split-screen are? Slowdown and unnaturally reduced area and ratio aspect for each screen. Go play Halo co-op and tell me I'm wrong. This completely nullifies slowdown, and each screen is designed so it'll look like a proper screen would on the GBA when developers use both screens. How is that bad?
Yes it can. Split screen games have been around for ages. The only difference is that it each screen is slightly smaller - which could be retified by a larger screen.
Quote
Analog sticks are different. For one thing, they're independent of each other - there's no way an analog stick could be split the way a screen can. Also, they're methods of control, which in my book is much more important than a method of display.
What you see influences what you have control over. Somebody said silent scope a while back... that's a perfect example. Would it be the same game with split screen? No, not even close.
Another good thing about this, being vertical and all, it'll be more like an arcade screen, with inherent support for games like Ikaruga. Maybe I'm the only one happy about that, but I am.
Post by: vudu on January 22, 2004, 06:42:33 AM
Quotei believe nintendo stated that they were starting to give specs to developers, so they were afraid information would start to get leaked. they thought it would be better to hear the announcement from the source than from nintendo0wnZar.com.
Originally posted by: GoldShadow1
You know, I think it was a big mistake of Nintendo's to give us information so early. If they had kept it until E3, they could've showed it off with games and give us an idea of how it plays. As it is, though, by the time E3 comes around everyone will have heard of the DS anyway and it won't be anywhere near as big of news.
Post by: Pod on January 22, 2004, 07:05:02 AM
Funniest nintendo forum ever.
Anyway, how mane eyes does one person have? 2. Mostly. this could still be 3D glasses. WIRELESS 3D glasses. Explains the radio transmitting thing, as the Wave Bird functions the same way. Would also make sense in the "3rd pillar" and "functioning with existing games" department. Would also explain the "it's okay if most people aren't that interested" attitude.
Alright, shoot, I dunno why 3D glasses would need two ARM processors. Maybe the to generate the 2nd picture, that needs to be viewed from a slightly different angle? "Fun and movement"? Looking around incorporated into the glasses like that Kiby's Tilt 'n' Tumble thing.
Anyways, it'll probably just be something hastily slapped together for pitching against the PSP, which I believe to be an impossible fight, as the PSP will, aside from fans of handheld gaming devices, also appeal to every idiot with a PlayStation who aren't even aware of Nintendo's existence, and every other idiot who usually just play games on their cell-phones, but still consider PlayStation to be "cool".
Post by: PaLaDiN on January 22, 2004, 07:13:40 AM
Post by: Pod on January 22, 2004, 07:18:48 AM
Actually, I'm seeing the exact opposite happening. PS2's are right now being sold in bunches around Europe, on the slogan "best selling DVD-player ever," which isn't even a lie.
Most people see through the fact (or are unaware of it) that it's a rather rubbish DVD-player by todays standarts, and buy because it also plays games and really is rather cheap by now.
Post by: GameTavern on January 22, 2004, 08:47:03 AM
here
here
here
Post by: vudu on January 22, 2004, 09:01:40 AM
Post by: SuperCube on January 22, 2004, 09:09:09 AM
Post by: chlupe on January 22, 2004, 09:15:41 AM
I'm still disappointed though. Mainly for this whole "third pillar" thing and whether or not this is a smart business move (dammit I actually own stock. I'm losing $. my own fault for buying though.)
Post by: Oldskool on January 22, 2004, 09:18:39 AM
Post by: babaloulou on January 22, 2004, 09:24:28 AM
Post by: GameTavern on January 22, 2004, 09:50:58 AM
is this picture real I can't tell. if you look, both screens look like they can flip up on the other side.
Post by: Arbok on January 22, 2004, 11:28:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GameTavern
http://www.gametavern.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7608&page=2
is this picture real I can't tell. if you look, both screens look like they can flip up on the other side.
If you mean this picture: http://mysite.verizon.net/res7wbe4/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dsboy.jpg
Then god no, just look at his finger, you can see the rough edges on it like the device he is holding was cut into via Photoshop.
Post by: babaloulou on January 22, 2004, 11:33:22 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 22, 2004, 12:12:36 PM
Just like the super secret NDS logo I found!!!11
Post by: Edisim on January 22, 2004, 01:49:31 PM
I wasn't citing either example as evidence to suggest that Nintendo is going to move away from their games oriented mentality. Simply, I'm suggesting that Nintendo is now more willing to give in to consumer demand. Whether that means dvd capability or other things on any future machine--I really don't care. (Though there probably ARE some people who do.) I like them for their focus on games. But to compete more aggressively with Sony and Microsoft, they may have to do things they don't really fully believe in.
Post by: KnowsNothing on January 22, 2004, 02:24:25 PM
The only thing good about this is that I have very low expectations, so if it really does turn out well, it will have double the flavor.
-______-
Post by: Pale on January 22, 2004, 04:04:18 PM
I for one found one of the most annoying parts of prime was switching between visors properly. It'd be sweet if we got a prime game and we could physically see two visors simultaneously. Yeah...that would rock. =P
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 22, 2004, 04:17:35 PM
Take a look!!
EDIT: punctuation
Post by: Outlaw on January 23, 2004, 12:09:53 AM
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/villepiia/misc/ninds.gif
Post by: JB on January 23, 2004, 12:24:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Outlaw
I made a quick design of Nintendo DS too, utilizing elements from both GBA SP and SNES controller (for you retro freaks ) .. Check it out below, comments appreciated:
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/villepiia/misc/ninds.gif
That looks pretty cool! Send it over to Nintendo quick!
Post by: idiot on January 23, 2004, 05:53:17 AM
gbds
Post by: vudu on January 23, 2004, 05:56:41 AM
(1) a real-time strategy game (much like starcraft). the main screen would show your main base or the bulk of your attacking army and the second screen could be for scout troops, outposts, strategically placed cameras surrounding your base, etc.
(2) a starfox (or rogue squadron) game where the top screen is your view from the cockpit and the bottom screen is your control panel/radar. for the radar, i'm picturing a 3d vector drawing of your view from the cockpit--sort of like the original starfox for the snes. it would make it easier to pick out enemies' movement or ships in the distance and help immerse you in the game.
Post by: Olpus on January 23, 2004, 11:15:03 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 23, 2004, 03:59:43 PM
its similar to one of the mock-ups
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on January 23, 2004, 04:37:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Matrix
Well, using my mad photoshop skillz and a little creativity, I have predicted EXACTLY what Nintendo's new console will look like...
http://members.shaw.ca/lordmatrix/nds.jpg
That was actually the first image that popped into my head when i read about this.
Post by: Chongman on January 23, 2004, 05:08:40 PM
Post by: Mario on January 23, 2004, 06:42:41 PM
The development kits will be given to developers around May, probably shortly after E3. The Nintendo DS will be launched at a retailing price of 20,000 Yen.
Post by: babaloulou on January 23, 2004, 08:25:52 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on January 24, 2004, 12:32:39 AM
Cost of PSP
250 British Pound. That's 450 US Dollars, about the cost of the XBox at launch.
So, Miyamoto's generating, errr..., making Buzz for the DS?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 24, 2004, 05:59:14 PM
But it is an intersting concept that would make a little more sense to me(no matter how virtual boy like)
Quote
Evil_Cloud wrote:
Quote:
The GMR article reveals that Nintendo has in fact been in talks with Sharp for the potential use of their 3D display technology in a future Nintendo handheld. Obviously, this doesn't mean that the DS is that handheld, but there is another clue that lends credence to the idea.
Sharp has explained in the past how two TFT LCD screens can work in conjunction to create a 3D view. According to Iam Matthew, 3D Solutions Business Development Manager at Sharp Systems of America, "Sharp's TFT 3D LCD technology works on the principle of displaying left and right eye views that are separated so that the left eye sees only the left eye image, and the right eye sees only the right eye image."
Sharp's explanation (w/ pictures!)
it all sounds interesting, and I can't wait to see it in action, if this is what they meant by two screen vertically (one above[ontop] of the other)
Post by: Procession on January 25, 2004, 01:00:00 AM
Post by: DevAdvocate on January 25, 2004, 10:58:44 AM
Essentially Sony is looking for the general public to repurchase an old product in a new form. Is that really very different from Nintendo's portable gaming strategy? Nope. The only real difference is that Sony also owns large lucrative concerns in other areas of electronics and entertainment, and hopes to graft those on top of Nintendo's tried and true portable gaming strategies. That's always been their leverage, not that they have better ideas or "vision" about gaming products. I think portraying Nintendo as being in the dark about these things is pretty misleading.
Post by: KDR_11k on January 27, 2004, 09:00:29 AM
Post by: badibills on January 27, 2004, 05:27:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Okay, can someone tell me this. What can you do with two separate screens that you cant do with one really long screen?
That question is hard to answer. One thing is certain is that:
Two small screens are MORE PORTABLE than only one bigger screen.
This is going into deep speculation, but the two screens could be sandwiched one on top of the other to look abit like the SP clamshell shape. On the other hand, one big screen would determine the size of the system, i.e. big portable system. Seeing as you could unite both screens into one, I think that this would have been a good idea even for the GBA successor for portability issues. Does that help a bit?
Post by: revolg_98 on January 28, 2004, 01:28:02 PM
Post by: BurningShadows on January 31, 2004, 07:23:05 PM
Post by: cubedcinder128 on February 01, 2004, 03:46:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BurningShadows
Ok I have heard alot of this before. Thinking Nintendo has screwed up. Which it has just like all other companys. Now I too beleive that there shall be more than just the two screens. Now I'm gonna wait it out before I say it will be awsome or Crappy or just plain average (and thats normaly not the case) but there were a bunch of people who said Zelda Wind waker would just flat out suck because of cell shading and look at it now. ratings of 10. by almost every magazine. So I say Nintendo knows what they are doing.
That's how I pretty much feel. Some people seem to forget about that Wind Waker deal, and as you say, look how it has turned out. Some sources even gave it the title of Best Game of 2003!
Obviously Nintendo sees something in this concept that would make them design a whole new system around it, otherwise they wouldn't be announcing it at all. All I'm doing is waiting until E3 before all final judgment is pressed forward. This is something that gaming sites like IGN and GameSpot are failing to do, and naturally, it's making me lose credibility in sites like that.
