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NWR Interactive => TalkBack => Topic started by: WindyMan on January 05, 2004, 09:00:51 PM

Title: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: WindyMan on January 05, 2004, 09:00:51 PM: Pandora Tomorrow, that is. The game will automatically adjust difficulty based on what you do, says Ubi Soft.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3257458.stm
Source: BBC

It seems with every flashy new game that comes out, you have people complaining that it's too easy. Even with developers adding difficulty levels, you can never please anyone anymore.

In an interview with BBC Online, Ubi Soft president Yves Guillemot talked about this problem, one that a lot of developers face. His company is working on a new type of adaptive artifical intellegence that will see what a player is doing while the game is being played, then change the game in a way that would make the game more or less challenging. The next Splinter Cell game will be the first to feature this new technology, according to the article.

The next Splinter Cell game, as you know, is Pandora Tomorrow. Still set to be online across all game systems, including GameCube, is set for a mid-March release.

Steven says; You know, it's about time somebody figured out a way to do something like this. All types of games could really stand to be more challenging for the types of people who are experts at everything (including, *ahem*, yours truly). If the same game can be easy for bad players and hard for good players, that's a great thing.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: KDR_11k on January 05, 2004, 10:38:16 PM: AFAIK SC2 adapts to your strength a bit. If you lose a match in Arcade mode and continue, the enemy will be weaker.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: Tatsu on January 06, 2004, 05:39:01 AM: This isn't exactly a new thing, but the best example I've seen of this in the past is an import Playstation game by Treasure called Rakugaki Showtime. It's a brawler a little similar to the powerstone series (except much more bizarre), and in arcade mode you play harder levels if you complete the stages faster and with less damage. It all plays out in the end where the hidden character you unlock (there's over a dozen) relies on how hard the game is by the final battle.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: Ian Sane on January 06, 2004, 06:20:33 AM: An adaptive AI is a pretty cool idea. That way anyone can beat the game but without the title being a complete cakewalk. The skill level of players these days is so all over the place that it's hard to make something that won't be too easy or too hard. If implemented well this could be the perfect solution.

Though any difficulty I have with Splinter Cell has nothing to do with the AI. I always die because I sneak up behind someone and SHOOT THEM IN THE HEAD only to have them turn around and kill me. For a game that tries so hard to be realistic is sure pisses me off that unless you fluke out and get an absolutely perfect head shot each enemy takes like six bullets to kill. In real life if I shoot you ANYWHERE you're f*cked. I would like Pandora Tomorrow to have realistic damage on enemies so if I shoot a guy in the leg he falls down and calls for help or tries to set off an alarm. No more "shooting me in the face just alerts me to your presence" bs.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: vudu on January 06, 2004, 06:36:43 AM: how about if ubi soft does the exact opposite and instead have realistic damage on the player? one chest shot--you're dead. guy pops you in the knee caps before he goes down--you limp for the rest of the game. knock out gas--your computer/console shuts off. sounds like a winner to me.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: Ian Sane on January 06, 2004, 08:35:39 AM: "how about if ubi soft does the exact opposite and instead have realistic damage on the player? one chest shot--you're dead. guy pops you in the knee caps before he goes down--you limp for the rest of the game. knock out gas--your computer/console shuts off. sounds like a winner to me."

Well no, see that would suck.

My main complaint with the way it works in the original is that often when I'm trying to kill a guy in a stealth manner it turns into an all out fire fight because the bullet I just shot into the side of his ear doesn't even phase him. Actually if they did realistic damage on all characters, both enemies and yourself, then it actually wouldn't be so bad. Sure they can kill you in one hit but that's okay because odds are if you're sneaking around well you'll fire first. You would need some unrealistic stuff like med kits though to make it more fair.
Title: RE:The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: waddlyhobbins on January 06, 2004, 09:37:38 AM: Am I the only one that sees the potential problem with this? If they make this AI adjust the game difficultly upon how you do....this would allow for any one that wants to beat the game to just do horrible on purpose so the game is easy on them. I do see what a great idea this AI could be. Untill they show me how the game uses this technology, I can only speculate how much people are going to fly through some parts and struggle like all hell through others(of course untill the AI kicks in and makes it easy for you.) It just seems like the difficulty would fluctuate all over the place because once you start getting good the difficulty ramps up....that causes you to start to suck....which makes the game easy...you get the point....at least with set difficulties you know its going to be constantly hard or easy...

Main Idea being: if they change the difficulty only on the level by level basis. So if you sucked on one level the next one would be easier for you, but it wouldnt change the difficulty of the level you are on...that way the game wouldnt constantly dumb itself down while you are playing it.
Title: RE:The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: joshnickerson on January 06, 2004, 02:33:17 PM: I'm just tired of people complaining about if a game is too easy... just play the game already! If you enjoy playing it, who cares how easy or hard it is? Sheesh.
In the same vein, I remember one of the Crash Bandicoot games (Warped, I think) would help you out if you totally sucked at the game. The more you died in a level, the more 1ups and checkpoints the game would provide for you in that level.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: nolimit19 on January 06, 2004, 03:14:15 PM: well the best news out of all this is that splitter cell is online for the cube, and no one has even mentioned that....how will it work exactly and what features will be online?
Title: RE:The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 06, 2004, 03:16:11 PM: Eh, wouldn't this be bad for the player? The whole point of difficulty levels in videogames is forcing the player to raise their skill level in order to beat the game- an adaptive AI would always be -at- your skill level rather than forcing you to get better. Not only does that give no difficulty to the game at all (being challenged makes it more enjoyable, josh- difficulty level is a key part of a game), it gives the player no incentive to get better, as well as no reward when they do get better. I don't know about you, but one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had in a videogame was beating Super Monkey Ball on Expert, or Advanced without losing a life- it was so satisfying because I knew I had earned that goal, I had worked for it and attained it, and it felt good. A game that adapts its difficulty level to you never gives you that sense of accomplishment because you were never challenged in the game.

Now an adaptive AI in the sense that the enemy learns from your tactics and strategies would be exemplary- I'd like to see that in a videogame.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: nolimit19 on January 06, 2004, 03:21:52 PM: lol i was never good enough to beat that damn monkey ball
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: KDR_11k on January 07, 2004, 05:58:39 AM: I saw a discussion of that topic on Slashdot, the two main points were
1. This isn't new, many games had such mechanisms, however, many failed at the implementation.
2. The difficulty could be easily tricked.

Imagine if this AI chose to always be a bit stronger than your skill allows... FUN!
Title: RE:The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: Rize on January 07, 2004, 04:54:17 PM: I think it works so much better when a developer simply describes what each difficulty mode is like. Metal Gear Solid 2 and Halo both employ this method (and perhaps some other games) to good effect.

There's no need to get all fancy.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: KDR_11k on January 08, 2004, 07:41:45 AM: More games should allow for changing difficulty modes at any point or at least between levels. So you don't have to start over when a particular level is just too hard for you.
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: vudu on January 08, 2004, 09:13:07 AM: i can think of quite a few games that will allow you to tone the difficulty level down a notch (i.e. from normal to easy) but i don't know of any that will allow you to up the difficulty (i.e. normal to hard).
Title: RE: The AI of Tomorrow
Post by: KDR_11k on January 08, 2004, 07:49:56 PM: Conflict Freespace allowed setting the dificulty for every mission at will.