Post by: Procession on December 10, 2003, 03:06:04 PM
1) Use Windows, support the Xbox
It is common knowledge that the way Microsoft funds the Xbox is through the sales of Office and Windows alone. Out of their 7 (I think) divisions those are the two that are profitable. By contributing money to Microsoft, you're propping up the Gamecube's competition. Remember, loyal Nintendoites, the more money Microsoft has, the more money Nintendo uses to fight them. PlanetGamecube's servers even run on Windows! Sort of ironic, right?
2) Open standards
Windows is closed software, meaning Microsoft don't let anyone play with or use the underlying code. In contrast, open source software can be modified, and sold by anyone, in almost anyway.
3) Stability
Although the odd application may be unstable, the Linux kernel (and the BSD kernels) are very stable. Generally, even when an application crashes, it won't bring the whole system down. No more blue screens (just kernel panics
, joking).4) FREE!
Most Linux (and as AFAIK all BSDs) are completely free to download, legally. Plus there are thousands of fantastic free applications. Including The GIMP (Photoshop replacement), OpenOffice.org (Office suite), Mozilla (Web browser), K3B (CD/DVD Burner, Nero replacement), Rhythmbox (iTunes replacement), Bluefish (superb web design app), Evolution (Outlook replacement) and many, many, many, more - practically all free.
5) Secure
Never get hit by nasty Windows virii again. Even if someone decides to write a bunch a Linux virii, the impact is minimised by the sheer amount of different distributions and that damage should only be restricted to the account you're running, not the whole system.
Anyway, there is some food for thought. Mull it over. You can try Linux wih out even touching your hard drive with a live cd such as Knoppix or Gnoppix. Good distributions for your hard drive if you are a beginner include Fedora Core (formerly Red Hat Linux), Mandrake and Ark Linux, as well as many others.
Some good websites include
http://www.distrowatch.com
http://www.pclinuxonline.com
http://www.gnome.org
http://www.knoppix.net
http://www.linux-mandrake.com
http://www.debian.org
http://www.arklinux.org
Post by: manunited4eva22 on December 10, 2003, 03:14:11 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 10, 2003, 03:15:50 PM
Also, to keep with my being bitchy, the plural of virus is viruses, not viri or virii- not all Latin words ending in -us are made plural with -i.
Post by: ThePerm on December 10, 2003, 03:22:35 PM
Post by: Ghost_of_a_Flea on December 10, 2003, 04:05:16 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 10, 2003, 04:19:22 PM
Post by: akdaman1 on December 10, 2003, 05:42:51 PM
Post by: ThePerm on December 10, 2003, 06:00:04 PM
Post by: TOY on December 10, 2003, 06:03:53 PM
Quote
I just read the first reason and stoped , that is the STUPIDEST think I have ever heard . Windows is great and Microsoft deserve some respect .
Thanks Akdaman1, Im so tired of people bitching about Microsoft. Why would I wannt M.S or the XBOX to fail, I wouldnt. I dont have an XBOX, but only because I dont have enough time to play the games I have now. I LOVE Windows XP, It may not be perfect and ya I have to download patches because some A$$holes dont have anything better to do than create viruses but that sounds better than taking months to figure out how to install and use an O.S. Plus as already stated if you want to play most games or use most of the programs on the market you need Windows.
TOY
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 10, 2003, 06:10:41 PM
Procession, you missed one very important thing. For those of you planning on buying an Athlon 64 in the near future, take a guess what the only 64 bit OS is right now.
But related to your first point, I always did find it kind of odd that PGC is run on an IIS server. I mean, what's the deal with that?
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 10, 2003, 06:12:43 PM
Post by: DrZoidberg on December 10, 2003, 06:34:59 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on December 10, 2003, 06:43:42 PM
I'll get XP, cause it's 'new', but also something familiar.
I like the whole familiarity thing when it comes to WIndows, which is why i love Nintendo so much.
Post by: akdaman1 on December 10, 2003, 07:20:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
akdaman... you are somewhat less than intellectual. Whatever you might think, Windows is FAR from great.
Procession, you missed one very important thing. For those of you planning on buying an Athlon 64 in the near future, take a guess what the only 64 bit OS is right now.
But related to your first point, I always did find it kind of odd that PGC is run on an IIS server. I mean, what's the deal with that?
I have no idea what you are on about. I ammidtley no jack when it come to this stuff , but you dont go dissing a program cause of who makes it ...( Of all people I thought you would understand )
Post by: Infernal Monkey on December 10, 2003, 08:48:01 PM
Price doesn't factor in either. Seriously, how many people actually pay money for Windows or Office these days?
Post by: Ocarina Blue on December 10, 2003, 10:34:26 PM
Quote
I have no idea what you are on about. I ammidtley no jack when it come to this stuff , but you dont go dissing a program cause of who makes it ...( Of all people I thought you would understand )
People don't dislike Windows because it's made by Microsoft, they dislike Microsoft because they made Windows. The main reason there is a strong dislike for Microsoft though, is because they've used capitalism to form a pretty strong monopoly.
I predict Microsoft will be forced to adapt or just crash sooner or later. Open source is simply a more efficent development technique when it gets the numbers, and it's numbers are increasing.
Post by: akdaman1 on December 10, 2003, 11:35:19 PM
Post by: Procession on December 10, 2003, 11:37:51 PM
Couple of additions and responses...
"The main reason there is a strong dislike for Microsoft though, is because they've used capitalism to form a pretty strong monopoly."
More than capitalism - some questionable business practices indeed. Netscape (huh? what's that! I can hear some say) was crushed after Microsoft bundled their competing browser, IE with Windows. Before that, in 1995 Netscape had over 80% of the browser market. If you used the WWW, you used Netscape. Then there is the Java fuss, the Windows Media and RealPlayer fuss etc...
"Messing around with the code doesn't interest me, getting a whole bunch of new junk to replace the programs I know well doesn't interest me either. Sorry."
Messing with code? This isn't 2000, things have changed. Leaps and bounds.
I agree with games - Linux is rubbish for games at the moment, especially since Loki went bust. However there is still Quake 3, Enemy Territory, America's Army, Unreal Tournament 2003, MOH:AA, Serious Sam among a few others. As well as WineX to play Windows games (including GTA:VC, Warcraft III etc.), and promises of Doom 3 and UT2004. No good if you're a PPC owner like me though.
In all seriousness though - if anything does rock the Microsoft boat, it WILL be open source. Keep in mind there is a fair chance you could be posting from a Linux PC in 5 or 10 years time. But it is a pretty big if.
Post by: Mario on December 10, 2003, 11:40:26 PM
Quote
1) Use Windows, support the Xbox
It is common knowledge that the way Microsoft funds the Xbox is through the sales of Office and Windows alone. Out of their 7 (I think) divisions those are the two that are profitable. By contributing money to Microsoft, you're propping up the Gamecube's competition. Remember, loyal Nintendoites, the more money Microsoft has, the more money Nintendo uses to fight them. PlanetGamecube's servers even run on Windows! Sort of ironic, right?
Wouldn't stronger competition force Nintendo to be more competitive and help bring out their best? Thus giving us better games and products? Windows all the way
This whole topic is stupid. I have Windows XP, it works. Nothing about it has required effort from me to fix or examine anything. I have had no problems with it. The end.
Post by: Procession on December 10, 2003, 11:44:17 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on December 10, 2003, 11:44:20 PM
Regarding your Netscape comment, I think it's worthy of note that Mozilla Firebird is gaining alot of popularity. Of course it's not riviling IE yet in terms of usage, but it's growing fast. It's at least a step in the right direction.
Akdaman1: Sorry, I guess I took the quote out of context.
Post by: Procession on December 10, 2003, 11:48:22 PM
No-one forced you to post, in all fairness. The point of a discussion board is to provoke, well, discussion. Offering an alternative viewpoint, that's all. If you want to keep using whatever your PC manufacturer sticks on and you're happy with it, good for you.
EDIT: OcarinaBlue, KDE and GNOME, agree 100%. If you see the progress GNOME in particular has made in the past year and a half, it is truly mindblowing. I can't even begin to fathom where the two projects will be in 2005 at this rate. KDE 3.2 will be another huge step. They're not perfect, but they're definately getting there. Kernel 2.6 + KDE 3.2/GNOME 2.6 will make a powerful argument for the desktop in a couple of months. I think Firebird is brilliant - I see it as sort of a gateway (trojan horse, perhaps
) for closed-platform users to be introduced to the idea of open source.
Post by: Shift Key on December 10, 2003, 11:51:07 PM
In response to Procession's points:
1) Buying Windows does not support Xbox. Buying Xbox supports Xbox. Admittedly, Windows and Office are two of the best-selling products on the market, but the majority of their income does not come from consumers like the general public - it is from the contracts for large businesses and institutions to use these products.
The gradual move away from from closed-source software will grow in the future, loosening the grip of MS on the industry. They seem to be focussing on making Longhorn something huge, so it can only be win-win for the consumer. Already the Australian Government is introducing a bill to encourage "open-source software" wherever possible.
The bill can be found here as an rich text file: http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/bills/0/2003/rtf/03160b.rtf
3) I would like to dispute this point. Unless you like to run twenty applications at once, the Windows systems maintain their stability under much activity. I haven't had any problems with 2000, and XP (based on the 2000 architecture) is similar. So for casual users, this point is wasted.
5) Viruses are the user's fault, no matter how ignorant MS are. A good virus program, a popup blocker (or IE alternative) should be a given for every computer, especially in this day and age.
Saying this, I am very interested in the Linux OS, and as soon as my computer is up and running smoothly again, I'll install Linux alongside Windows and it can be one big happy family...
Quote*falls off chair, laughs to death*
Originally posted by mouse_clicker:
the profit Microsoft makes off of Windows goes back into Windows
Wow, another Windows upgrade. Oh look, the colours *forks out money for essentially the same OS*
Quote*continues to fall and laugh*
Originally posted by akdaman1:
Windows is great and Microsoft deserve some respect .
Sorry, but they are not the most respectful of companies... Their virtual monopoly of the desktop software and operating systems markets, their abuse of power, their lack of ingenuity or originality with upgrades, they don't get no respect from me.
QuoteLonghorn is at least four years away, and Apple are off sniffing daisies and hugging trees.
Originally posted by Grey Ninja:
For those of you planning on buying an Athlon 64 in the near future, take a guess what the only 64 bit OS is right now.
QuoteFor some, me included, the ability to customise an operating system, no matter how little or how much, is too tempting to ignore.
Originally posted by Toy:
but that sounds better than taking months to figure out how to install and use an O.S. Plus as already stated if you want to play most games or use most of the programs on the market you need Windows.
And you can emulate many Windows though Linux, as well as all the free alternative programs.
Post by: Mario on December 10, 2003, 11:56:31 PM
And thank you for conveniantly quoting only that part of my post. Ok, im gone. Sorry if i interfered, or whatever.
Post by: Procession on December 11, 2003, 12:03:30 AM
"the profit Microsoft makes off of Windows goes back into Windows"
Wrong. I can't find an URL right now (I think an old news.com story) but Microsoft could sell Windows for $50 and still make a profit. So for every $150 (?) box, they put well less than $50 into R&D and manufacturing, marketing etc. Although Longhorn is an unusally big investment for Microsoft, by then they'll only be up to where Apple is now.
"3) I would like to dispute this point. Unless you like to run twenty applications at once, the Windows systems maintain their stability under much activity. I haven't had any problems with 2000, and XP (based on the 2000 architecture) is similar. So for casual users, this point is wasted."
Agreed from my admittedly little experience with 2K/XP, things have got much more stable than 9X series. But that isn't saying much. I honestly don't know anyone who hasn't had problems even with XP. Microsoft could still do better in this respect.
Post by: Berto2K on December 11, 2003, 01:38:10 AM
I have run my computer as much as a week (that I can remember for sure) after explorer has crashed. The longest time that I have record for that my computer was running was over 16 days. Only having to restart from a NAV update. I have never had a virus on my computer. There was even a time when I didn't have any anti-virus program installed at all.
Sure getting patches and maybe tweaking settings to get them to work just how you like is a pain someitmes. But it makes you a more responsible and more knowedgeable user.
Post by: Procession on December 11, 2003, 02:11:07 AM
Anyway here's the great joke: the PC came, he tried to install Windows. Windows kept saying "No Hard Drive Found" or something along those lines. So he calls me up and says "Bloody Windows, telling me there isn't a hard drive!". So I told him to open the case to see if perhaps the IDE cable has been dislodged during shipping. He opens the case and I tell him to look for a little metal case, about half the size of a CD-ROM drive, under the CD-ROM drive. He says "I can't see anything! There is nothing there!". I tell him "Are you sure? Look carefully... maybe it's somewhere else?" "There's nothing bloody here!" sound quite fustrated at me, his new investment and the world in general. So I pondered for awhile and asked him "Are you sure you ordered the hard drive?". He declares he had and starts slagging off the owner of the store to me. Eventually I convince him to recheck his email reciept on his old PC. Turns out the dunce had never even ordered it!
Post by: akdaman1 on December 11, 2003, 09:43:29 AM
My problem is that he came out and said ' Lets not use Windows , the profits go to the company that makes Xbox.
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 11, 2003, 10:20:42 AM
Post by: Ghost_of_a_Flea on December 11, 2003, 11:31:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I've been dogged by Windows my whole life, and not a day goes by that I don't have some problem, minute though they may be. But I value PC gaming, hence my unwillingness to switch operating systems.
I'm with Mouse on this one; while I hate Windows with a passion I'm unwilling to give up PC gaming. I'm interested in getting a second computer to do everything except gaming; I've considered getting a Mac or Linux laptop, but at the soonest it'll be a couple months before I can swing it.
Post by: nolimit19 on December 11, 2003, 11:32:11 AM
Post by: Jdub03 on December 11, 2003, 12:28:20 PM
On a related note the people who created windows Me can go to hell, compliments of Jdub international.
Post by: KnowsNothing on December 11, 2003, 12:37:30 PM
"Error in <unknown> has caused this browser to close and the windows will now shoot raw sewage in your face"
I was going to "downgrade" to windows 98 but it ended up being too much work, and I decided reformatting my hard-drive wasn't worth it. I need to find a copy of Windows XP or something. Or if I ever get internet in my room I could try linux. But I know absolutley nothing about it.
Kinda unrelated: Windows ME freezes on me constantly, and ctrl+alt+delete won't even work sometimes. that causes me to use the power button on my PC. If I do this too much, though, windows will think there is something seriosly wrong with my HD and won't run windows to prevent damage (happened to this PC and windows wouldn't even start in safe mode, had to get it serviced). Once that happens my PC it's dead for good because my parents refuse to have any service for it. I'm wondering how many times you have to do that for windows to shut down, or if you can prevent that from happening (besides not shutting down, of course). Or pretty much any other info on this. I'm scared to death that it will happen again.
Post by: akdaman1 on December 11, 2003, 12:54:35 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 11, 2003, 01:08:31 PM
While XP still has some issue, it's a LOT better than any previous version of Windows.Quote
but Procession , at least edit reason 1 , its silly .
Agreed.
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 11, 2003, 01:25:26 PM
Mouse, I know what you mean. There are some things we would just rather not do without. But with me, all the games I play regularly are available on Linux, and Linux is more oriented towards people like me. I am seriously going to do something about that this weekend.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 11, 2003, 01:36:46 PM
Why? Partially because it's a big pain in the ass. Let's face it, unless I want to miss out on a lot of software, I have to have both Linux and Windows on my machine so I have to f*ck around with partitions and stuff. The hassle of that kind of ruins the whole point of "switching" in the first place. Another reason is that I just plain don't find Linux very user friendly. Windows is user friendly and that's why it became so successful. Now sometimes in an attempt to make things more user friendly MS makes it harder to do something specific but overall it's not that bad.
And one big reason that I don't care for Linux is that it's free. I have a job as a programmer and I don't really like the concept of freeware because, well, if everyone accepted that concept I'd be out of a job. I like living in my capitalist society where I get paid for my work thank you very much. Plus because it's free there's ultimately no incentive to improve the product. Money is very persuasive and a company is more willing to go that extra mile to get more money.
My problem with MS is that they have a stranglehold on the market, not that they're a big corporation that makes lots of money. The ideal situation is two or more companies competing in the OS market for our hard earned money. That would result in better products overall. Linux cannot provide that situation.
Post by: MattCrafty on December 11, 2003, 01:39:23 PM
The only problem with it is that it sometimes will not shutdown. After I click Start > Shutdown, it goes to a black screen with one blinking underscore, almost like it is still thinking. But I can only hear the fans running and no hard drive activity so I just shut it down by holding the power button in.
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 11, 2003, 02:25:44 PM
Post by: Jdub03 on December 11, 2003, 02:47:58 PM
Post by: akdaman1 on December 11, 2003, 02:59:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
akdaman, how about you figure out what an RPC vulnerability is. When you get done that, come back here and tell me you haven't had any problems with Windows.
Mouse, I know what you mean. There are some things we would just rather not do without. But with me, all the games I play regularly are available on Linux, and Linux is more oriented towards people like me. I am seriously going to do something about that this weekend.
Seriously Ninja , I have not said a thing except his 1st reason is stupid , dont you agree ? Whats an RPC ? I have had absoultly no trouble with Windows XP Proffesional ,
My only ever problem was I got a virus on Windows 98 , I stand by my words , the first reason was silly and should be edited .
Post by: manunited4eva22 on December 11, 2003, 03:38:35 PM
Seriously though, if you want the most stabillity possible from an OS go to OpenVMS (Ironically VMS was created by the guy who later went onto design NT for Microsoft) OpenVMS is still more secure than Linux and the Unix based platforms, but it is dying from a lack of support.
RPC=Remote Procedure Call, jus to answer grey.
Post by: akdaman1 on December 11, 2003, 03:40:19 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on December 11, 2003, 03:58:06 PM
search...
Post by: Majexto on December 11, 2003, 04:04:09 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on December 11, 2003, 04:22:24 PM
Macs use basically the same parts as high end PCs, get over it. They use the same Pioneer DVD-RW drive as is available for PC, they use the same video cards (Geforece 4 MX, Radeon 9xxx) they are built on a Lian-Li chassis, basically the whole thing is a pc, except that it comes at a massive surchage. That is a different topic for a different, time, but I will give macs credit on one thing, Darwin is definately getting up there in terms of use.
Post by: Majexto on December 11, 2003, 04:55:36 PM
Post by: Procession on December 11, 2003, 06:17:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: akdaman1
I stand by my words , the first reason was silly and should be edited .
You may find it silly, but it does happen to be true. Microsoft makes a loss on the Xbox, so how do they pay for it? From their profitable ventures. What are their profitable ventures? Windows and Office. Plus editing it now would make half the following thread without context.
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 11, 2003, 06:21:17 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 11, 2003, 06:35:54 PM
Mouse, Microsoft is proceeding with the Xbox with a philosophy that they will buy what they can and sort it all out later. They tried to by Nintendo, EA, Square, Sega, Bungie, Rare, and many others, on the assumption that if they bought some of the more respected developers, then people would buy their crappy console, and they could win in the end. Where do you suppose the funding for that comes from?
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 11, 2003, 06:38:33 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 11, 2003, 06:45:14 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 11, 2003, 06:47:27 PM
Just kidding of course.
Post by: akdaman1 on December 11, 2003, 07:03:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
Procession, don't bother trying to argue with Akdaman. It's seriously not worth your while.
Mouse, Microsoft is proceeding with the Xbox with a philosophy that they will buy what they can and sort it all out later. They tried to by Nintendo, EA, Square, Sega, Bungie, Rare, and many others, on the assumption that if they bought some of the more respected developers, then people would buy their crappy console, and they could win in the end. Where do you suppose the funding for that comes from?
Give me some F****ng respect , Why would you want Xbox to fail ? I find this thread o.k but reason 1 is stupid . Dont use windows cause you are helping Microsoft pay for the Xbox , and you are hurting Nintendo.
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 11, 2003, 07:22:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
That's just the thing- I didn't give Microsoft any money!
Just kidding of course.
Do you seriously think you are not alone? You know my personality well enough to fill in the blanks of course. I still think that Windows is a very shoddy product, and does not deserve its place in the lead. The problem is that since it has the largest userbase, people will develop for it, and because it has the largest amount of software, people will use it... and so on.
Luckily though, Linux has everything you might want, aside from games. Since I don't play PC Games, it's a very appealing alternative for me.
Post by: akdaman1 on December 11, 2003, 07:40:56 PM
You want X box to fail ? Why ? Because Its against Nintendo ? I dont have an Xbox or anything. And I dont want one . I hate PC gaming. I came on this topic stating that reason 1 was silly , "Dont use Windows cause you are helping microsoft and hurting Nintendo ?
If you seem to find that normal , and perfectly right then you have something in your head .
P.S -Procession , I have nothing against you , I just feel that your reasoning is stupid .
Edit ** Why should I look up what an RPC is ? Just cause you said so ? Like youre so important ...
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 11, 2003, 08:24:16 PM
Quote
I just feel that your reasoning is stupid.
I asked you to go figure out what RPC was for your own benefit. I am not here to hold your hand. I am not here to provide technical support for your computer. I am not here to win any fights. I gave you fair warning that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about, and you should drop it, but you choose to sit here and fight with me. Why?
Personally I don't give a crap what you think of me. I might care a little more if you actually contributed something to this place, or paid attention in english class, or moved to an ISP other than AOL, but really, you haven't left a good impression on anyone here really. Most people are just a little more polite than I.
Post by: Zero_Plague on December 11, 2003, 09:00:50 PM
I'm sorry I have to say this, and I usually dont, but Grey Ninja... what is your f**king problem?
You only want ONE gaming industry and just ONE pc industry?
This is a completed load of crap.
As much as I like Nintendo better then the X-Box, there is no reason for it to die out. We need more companies and industries to compete against eachother.
If it was purely Nintendo, then there would be nothing new.
I hate to say this against Nintendo, but if it was ONLY the Nintendo consoles left in the world... then there would be arguments.
"Whats new?"
"Oh nothing much. Nintendo are bringing out the Gamecube 4256th next year and it is going to have another repetetive Mario and Luigi game." (sigh)
My point is not that I dislike Nintendo... but we need other industries and companies to compare against and use.
The same goes for Computing.
I would not want Macintosh / Apple computers to be the ONLY pc in the world. Same goes for Windows. I would want both: Apple and Windows and what not to exist in the world.
The Majority of the World uses Windows, and even if it does not I wouldn't care.
Just use what you use, and use what you think is best.
Dont just try going to change other peoples opinions on stopping to use Windows.
Post by: Shift Key on December 12, 2003, 01:19:33 AM
QuoteErm, have you looked up the definition of a discussion? People are just discussing Windows, not trying to change everyone's opinions.
Dont just try going to change other peoples opinions on stopping to use Windows.
I'm not gonna preach my view, because its definitely wasted on some here. I just like to dispute points and debate. Happy hunting!
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 12, 2003, 02:30:59 AM
Also, akdaman was talking to Procession when he said "I just feel that your reasoning is stupid."
Post by: ghostVi on December 12, 2003, 03:26:22 AM
Next gen would be harder though.2. Windows is crap for many reasons, most of which are related to comparisons to other products/OSes, which actually DO show some real innovation, different from trying to charge you for using FAT32 on your mp3 player. Not sure about Linux, I'm going trough a period of transition to multi-platform tools at work so I can give Libranet a try.
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 12, 2003, 05:33:13 AM
And my problem with MS should be obvious. Look at the PC industry. MS doesn't share marketspace, they buy it. The last thing that I want them in is the console industry. Nintendo always believed that their success comes from innovation. Microsoft always believed that they could create success by buying everything.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 12, 2003, 07:35:21 AM
Windows is like that piece of crap clone Lindows insecure by default. Microsoft is proud of the fact that every stupid can use Windows. Good, but if that means we get idiots as Sysadmins we're screwed. Our school runs of a SuSE/Windows hybrid (SuSE mounted via NFS, Windows just a terminal). The company that set it up is a bunch of complete idiots that couldn't scratch their rear end without a manual. Windows might be easier to set up and use, but it's at least as hard to secure as Linux. Yes, Linux is not totally secure after the installation. No, that doesn't mean you cannot make it secure yourself.
Post by: akdaman1 on December 12, 2003, 08:07:33 AM
Xbox is a great console and Microsoft have made some good buisness decisions , They have some great exclusives Project Gotham , Panzer orta ( or whatever its called ) etc. I dont mind the rest of this discussion but just because a company poses a threat to your favourite console , that means that there is no reason for it go down and fail.
P.S. I might not be the smartest person here , but I make an effort. I ALWAYS make an effort to spell correctly and I put thought into my posts ( ...not all the time ). And I do have a lot of fans here at the moment despite what you may think.
P.S.S When do I ever spam a thread ? I want proof ....
Post by: Ghost_of_a_Flea on December 12, 2003, 08:35:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: akdaman1
Xbox is a great console and Microsoft have made some good buisness decisions , They have some great exclusives Project Gotham , Panzer orta ( or whatever its called ) etc. I dont mind the rest of this discussion but just because a company poses a threat to your favourite console , that means that there is no reason for it go down and fail.
From a business standpoint the Xbox has been a complete and utter failure; the point of business decisions is to make money. Microsoft wants to destroy/buy the competition creating a monopoly in the game industry... an ideal situation for MS is to buy Nintendo and run Sony out of the game industry giving MS complete control over console games and prices. That's the business strategy of MS, they do it with every venture outside of Windows and Office; they lose a ton of money until they create a monopoly and THEY control the industry. The Xbox is far from a great console; it's basically a cheap computer that does little outside of playing games and DVDs.
Post by: akdaman1 on December 12, 2003, 09:04:04 AM
But there is no denying that it has great games. What Microsoft has done buisness wise is smart , They have been using there power/money for exlucive deals , they might have lost this generation but I believe that in the next generation , Microsoft would learn not to build such a high priced machine. Once they build a low cost machine ( aka gamecube ) they will have a much better chance at succeding in the buisness.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 12, 2003, 09:33:48 AM
QuoteHad to step in here...I would really like to know what these "great" titles are...Right now, I have a whopping TWO titles for my Xbox, one of which is a generic FPS, and another which is a decent fighting game(DOA, which was fun until Soul Calibur II came out)...My next title will be Ninja Gaiden, which won't come out till next February(and it's not a Microsoft title! They had to pay off Tecmo to get the game to come out for the Xbox instead of the GC!)...So no, the Xbox has a horrible library, and the few "good" games it has were from shelling out some hardcore cash to get it exclusive...
Originally posted by: akdaman1
But there is no denying that it has great games.
to you, Microsoft...Go back to your OS monopoly...
Post by: mouse_clicker on December 12, 2003, 10:49:23 AM
Quote
But there is no denying that it has great games. What Microsoft has done buisness wise is smart
Well made, yes, but only one of those is associated with Microsoft at all, in my opinion. And Microsoft has NOT made great business decisions- if they're handlnig the business side of the XBox so well, why is the XBox in third worldwide on top of MS losing millions upon millions of dollars on it? Maybe if they were making a profit or had better sales, I'd say they were doing some business right, but neither of those are true. I'm surprised MS is still pumping money into the XBox when they're losing so much on it. MS would have been smarter to cut their losses and dumped the XBox long ago.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on December 12, 2003, 10:57:41 AM
So do yourself a favor next time: If you don't know what your talking about, and admit to it, atleast take the time to become knowledgable about the subject before you start arguing with someone who knows the ins and outs of the subject, and actually has a job in the same field...
Post by: akdaman1 on December 12, 2003, 11:44:16 AM
Xbox does have great games , Microsoft have TRIED to innovate with games like Blinx ( Tried ) , they have made good decisions like Xbox Live and using thier money to gain power . They have exclusives like PGR2 , Ninja Gaiden , Half Life 2 ( I know it will be on other next gens ) , Doom etc.
I have 60+ PS2 games , I have played all of them , they are all hopeless , I personnaly prefer Xbox over PS2 anyday , I do know what I am talking about , you people are just taking it onto the wrong contex ( not sure if thats the word I wanted to use ).
I wont back down , I know what I am talking about .
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 12, 2003, 11:54:58 AM
Can we please get back on topic?
I am downloading Mandrake Linux 9.2 as we speak, and I just cleared 10GB of space on my hard drive and prepared an EXT2 partition for it. With any luck, I should be ready to install it later on tonight. I can't wait to start playing with it again. And this time I WONT forget my root password.
Post by: nolimit19 on December 12, 2003, 11:59:28 AM
Post by: Zero_Plague on December 12, 2003, 12:34:59 PM
We all know that if this continues, it is going to be Endless Debating.
I dont have any doubts or offensed against any other members on this forum, and I never want to.
So I am just going to stop here, and say this:
Opinions can't be changed by another person. The person themself must change their opinion, and they might change it by being influenced by others.
But it looks as if nobody in this topic is going to change their opinion... hence carrying out the name "Endless Debating".
That is all I am going to say, and this will be the last post I am ever going to make in this topic.
Post by: Procession on December 12, 2003, 12:55:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
I am SICK of all this fighting. Akdaman, I am not going to bother fighting with you anymore.
Can we please get back on topic?
I am downloading Mandrake Linux 9.2 as we speak, and I just cleared 10GB of space on my hard drive and prepared an EXT2 partition for it. With any luck, I should be ready to install it later on tonight. I can't wait to start playing with it again. And this time I WONT forget my root password.
Nice
From what I hear 9.2 is pretty good, although you may have to download a few updates, as I hear the initial release was sort of buggy. If things don't work out too well with Mandrake, try Fedora (formerly Red Hat) or Knoppix/Gnoppix. If you've already got the partition, you may as well keep experimenting! One more thing: when installing Mandrake you may want to change that partition to ext3 or ReiserFS, ext2 is great, but ReiserFS and ext3 are newer and as a result have some advantages. Mandrake actually probably uses one of the two by default. Good luck!
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 12, 2003, 01:25:11 PM
And I am sure that I will be calling on you for answers to my questions when I get it installed.
Btw, do you know of a Linux port of Kazaa Lite?
Post by: Koopa Troopa on December 12, 2003, 01:57:28 PM
Seriously, you need to relax a little, it seems like you spend alot of time flaming people who hold different views than you. I'm sure your first inclination will be to do just that to me... It can't possibly make you happy to berate other people, I know it didn't make me happy. The first time I used Mozilla (about two years ago), I went on a little anti-IE spree, and looking back I wish I hadn't, all it did was make me bitter (not to mention look like a jackass). You seem to have a bad habit insulting everyone's intelligence, a lack of knowledge doesn't make someone stupid, unintelligent or "a non-intellectual". You boast your own knowledge yet seem unwilling to share it, preferring to blurt out key phrases like *"RPC Vulnerabilty" and then refuse to enlighten anyone as to what they are (which makes your knowledge questionable at best). I know you and I have been on shaky ground before(I hope you don't think this an aftershock of that), and I don't want to insult you, but I've been on the "elitist trip", and like I said it will only make you bitter (among other unsavory things)
*RPC, for those who care, is Remote Procedure Calling; the vulnerability stems from several things in conjunction, but ultimately it allows hackers to execute "top-level" commands via buffer overflows. I think there is a book out on the market that actually shows you how to do it, but I may be thinking of something else. Also worth noting: patches have been released to fix the flaw. (I haven't followed any of this that closely, so I apologize if anything is misrepresented)
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 12, 2003, 02:19:11 PM
I know I had my problems with you, but I honestly don't remember what they were, which leads me to believe that I was seriously drunk when I had my fight with you (as is the case at this moment). I don't hold any sort of grudge against you, in spite of what you might think, and I think you to be an intelligent person, in spite of our differences. But akdaman is someone I will never accept as being sentient.
Now that being said, I REALLY wish we would get back on topic. I will install Linux tomorrow, and will likely not return to Windows for some time.
Post by: KnowsNothing on December 12, 2003, 03:07:21 PM
Any help would be appreciated. I really want to try this out.
EDIT: I'd just like to randomly add that I really like this thread.
I am starting to get bored with what's happening around here lately. I don't even read the game threads even more because they are just a waste of time. I like threads that generate discussion and (especially) debate, and I'm starting to appreciate the ones that do more. That's why I really like people like Grey Ninja, kdr_11k, manunited4eva22, mouse_clicker, and a bunch of other people. They usually have something intelligent to say (which is more than I can say about myself) which generates constructive discussion, which is what this forum is meant to have.
Post by: MattCrafty on December 12, 2003, 03:32:18 PM
Post by: akdaman1 on December 12, 2003, 03:36:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
I am SICK of all this fighting. Akdaman, I am not going to bother fighting with you anymore.q]
Agreed , I dont like you and you dont like me , but at least show me some respect . Also 1 more thing , the only Major stupid thing I have done is posting the emuilation topic , which I said I was sorry for. If there is more then please bring it to my attention , or PM me so I know what you are talking about and improve on it.
Post by: Uglydot on December 12, 2003, 04:48:31 PM
"Why should the topic creator go to hell"
The answer is that linux etc is not useful to everyone and not everyone should use it. I happen to dual boot, some just want the computer to work for them right now and windows does that.
Post by: Grey Ninja on December 12, 2003, 05:49:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Well, I'm trying to test out Linux on my PC. Since this is only a trial run (i don't know what to expect) I decided to try dragon linux, which can run along side windows without having to partition the hard disk. the problem is, I don't know how to install it (yeah, I know, it's the easiest to install out of almost all of them). I think the problem just might be that you have to go into full DOS mode and windows ME can't do that. There's a way to do that with startup disk, I think.
Any help would be appreciated. I really want to try this out.
EDIT: I'd just like to randomly add that I really like this thread.
KnowsNothing, I am not really all that good with Linux. Most of my experience with it comes from my CS courses, which uses Unix as a base. But I can direct you toward knoppix, which is a variant of Linux that boots off of a CD rather than your hard drive. You then don't have to install anything, and can just boot from a CD to try out Linux.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on December 12, 2003, 06:49:59 PM
Quote
Koopa, I know what you are saying. and I would be lying if I said I hadn't considered it. But I don't think I am doing anything wrong in this case. Akdaman really is someone that I have actually complained to mods about before for posting mostly stupid crap. I have no problems if someone lacks knowledge. I do have problems if someone is intellectually challenged. Is this wrong? Maybe. Do I care? No. I try to tolerate it as long as possible. That I did. I told akdaman to look up RPC in the chances of having him do something for himself for a change. The fact that he didn't go to google and type in 3 letters really finished it for him in my eyes. I have never had much respect for him, and I gave him one more chance. intellegence had nothing to do with it.
Admittedly, a google search would have been fairly simple, but at the same time if someone really doesn't know what they are looking for (especially if they don't understand it), it will probably be fruitless. I can see from your stance on things that you wish suggest to people an alternative way of computing, I think you would have more success in educating than you have in your current method. For instance, I know if someone just tries Mozilla they'll never want to go back (Although in some cases IE is still necessary, but that is beside the point), all I have to do is get them to try it.
Intelligence and Intellectuality are related, but you're right, I don't think you said anything about intelligence directly. However, I'm not sure it is fair to assume that Akdaman isn't an intellectual. Obviously he isn't inclined to Computer Science, but put someone in their element and they may surprise you.
Quote
I know I had my problems with you, but I honestly don't remember what they were, which leads me to believe that I was seriously drunk when I had my fight with you (as is the case at this moment). I don't hold any sort of grudge against you, in spite of what you might think, and I think you to be an intelligent person, in spite of our differences. But akdaman is someone I will never accept as being sentient.
Oh, I know there isn't any tension between us any longer, which is why I hoped our past(if such a short time can be called that
) wasn't brought to mind by my interjection.Quote
Now that being said, I REALLY wish we would get back on topic. I will install Linux tomorrow, and will likely not return to Windows for some time.
I do apologize for regressing, I toyed with the idea that might restart the argument but I'm glad that, as I expected, it did not.
Have fun with Linux, I've been toying with the idea myself but have decided to wait until I have computer that I can devote to Linux.
Post by: Bloodworth on December 12, 2003, 08:04:12 PM
If the thread creator wants to start up a new discussion on this, that's fine, but we need to kill the baggage this thread is carrying.
