Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 12:09:26 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on November 03, 2003, 12:12:28 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 03, 2003, 12:15:12 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 03, 2003, 12:16:44 PM
Seriously, I love Loony Tunes.
Post by: Berny on November 03, 2003, 12:18:19 PM
The only reason I dont TOTALLY agree with you, mouseclicker, is your addition of Disney's old cartoons. Who knows, maybe now you'll eliminate my bias against them, but the reason I have no respect for Disney is because of the alleged "subliminal messages" in their old movies. There were *allgedly* wangs and hidden hand drawn pr0n all over their old movies. I've heard this a number of times from sources that are independent of each other. If anyone has any evidence of this or condradicting it, I'd love to see it.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 12:20:27 PM
Berny: I've heard that a lot, but they were still hilarious cartoons in my opinion, and enormously influential.
Speaking of the Simpsons and Loony Tunes, I read a great interview with Chuck Jones at The Onion AV Club on the very subject:
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O: What do you think of some of the other cartoons being produced today?
CJ: Well, I have a lot of respect for The Simpsons, but it's in the same tradition as Rocky & Bullwinkle: They're very clever scripts, and they had no intention of animating them. Animating goes back to that basic term that Noah Webster wrote in his dictionary—"Animation: to invoke life." Last night, when I was signing some cels, this deaf girl came up. She could read my lips, and she said that the thing she likes about the Warner cartoons and the Disney cartoons is that she could tell what was happening without hearing the dialogue. And that's what we tried to do: We always ran the pictures without dialogue, so we could see whether the action of the body would somehow convey what we were talking about. And she said that she'd watch Rocky & Bullwinkle or The Simpsons, and she couldn't tell what was happening, because so much of it is vocal. It's what I call "illustrated radio." The thing has to tell the whole story in words before you put drawings in front of it. But the basic tool, as I say... A great artist once said—in describing lines, which is really what we work with—that respect for the line is the most important thing. He described the line: "My little dot goes for a walk." You must have an equal amount of respect for any point on the line. You don't zip from one place to another like you're likely to do when you're young. When you watch your little dot go for a walk, it has to be carefully done, and thoughtfully done, and respectfully done.
Post by: Berny on November 03, 2003, 12:28:00 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 12:32:49 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on November 03, 2003, 12:40:05 PM
Post by: Berny on November 03, 2003, 12:40:59 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2003, 01:15:24 PM
Looney Toons on the otherhand has consistently been funny for decades, Space Jam aside. People still find those classic cartoons funny and everyone is at least somewhat familiar with all the characters and storylines. Fifty years from now I don't see The Simpsons being remembered quite as fondly. The Simpsons is the type of show that will keep on going until it is so bad that no one watches it and it gets cancelled. As a result it will die out on a sour note and thus taint people's rememberance of it.
But we really are comparing apple and oranges here. Looney Toons' hey day was as a cartoon short shown before movies. The Simpsons is a prime time television show and is in a whole different ball park since it has focus on ratings and advertising.
Oh and I find that Bugs Bunny at the best of times was a glorified bully and I've always wondered why I think he's so funny when he is basically a total jerk.
Post by: Berny on November 03, 2003, 01:22:55 PM
EDIT: Favorite still ends in "e" right?
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 01:23:40 PM
Post by: Berny on November 03, 2003, 01:24:51 PM
Post by: The Omen on November 03, 2003, 01:30:15 PM
And to sat LTs get no respect is outlandish. Everybody watches them when they're kids. They're extremely popular. by the way, i just had an argument about the Simpsons vs Family guy, and all my defenses sounded like Mouse-clickers defenses of Loony Toons.
Post by: Ian Sane on November 03, 2003, 01:33:27 PM
True but you have to look at some of the situations from an adult human perspective. When someone is being paid to put up a freeway that just happens to go over top of a rabbit hole they don't really deserve to be blown up by dynamite.
Bugs just doesn't handle most conflicts in a mature adult way.Yeah Jerry is a dickhead but I have a cat and I hate mice in the house so I'm kind of biased. Now Woody Woodpecker, THAT was an a$$hole.
As for Simpsons vs Family Guy that's a hard arguement. When Family Guy was on TV I thought it was a MUCH funnier show then the Simpsons was at the time. Family Guy is better at being an off-the-wall comedy. The Simpsons however wasn't originally as off-the-wall as it is now and in it's glory days was a much smarter and more sophisticated comedy then Family Guy could ever dream to be. If you compare the peaks of both shows Simpsons wins by a landslide but I feel that Family Guy is what the Simpsons should have been when they switched to the "Homer's wacky adventures" format.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 01:36:03 PM
Oh god, don't even TRY to tell me the Simpsons is mature humor.
Post by: The Omen on November 03, 2003, 02:30:50 PM
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although, in my opinion, it's very overrated- Futurama, I think, is much funnier
Not in the golden years of The Simpsons, years 2 - 6. Of course, copmparing them now, when the simpsons is 14 seasons old is a little unfair. Check Futurama in 10 years, and see if it stands up then. Of course, its all a matter of taste, and by no means did i mean that by being cerebral Simpsons is better, just its my kind of humor.
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The Simpsons however wasn't originally as off-the-wall as it is now and in it's glory days was a much smarter and more sophisticated comedy then Family Guy could ever dream to be. If you compare the peaks of both shows Simpsons wins by a landslide but I feel that Family Guy is what the Simpsons should have been when they switched to the "Homer's wacky adventures" format.
Absolutely agree, but lets see how The Family guy ages.
And Mouse-clicker, just for the record, what is mature humor?
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Loony Tunes is enjoyable to so many different people on so many different levels and in so many different situation and time periods, while the Simpsons is funny to a select group of individuals in the here and now. It's not hard to see which had a greater impact.
Well, i dont think this thread is the official last word on what had a greater impact, do you?
Post by: kennyb27 on November 03, 2003, 02:42:06 PM
About two years ago, my cousin who was 5 at the time was spending some time at my house. I had this Bugs Bunny stuffed animal laying around and she saw it and (take a deep breath) asked me who it was. I was genuinly surprised and proceeded to ask her if she had ever heard of Bugs Bunny or Daffy Duck. She said she hadn't and then said she watched Dexter's Lab and shows of the like.
It's things like these that generally scare me about the future of cartoons. Mouse made a very fine point about everything about these cartoons being great: the illustrations, voices, and probably the best (and maybe even the most easily overlooked part) the music.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 03, 2003, 02:43:37 PM
Though I hate Tom and Jerry, and Popeye is not among my favorites either.
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 03, 2003, 02:52:54 PM
BUT(and I'm sorry, HC), i don't see invader zim being NEARLY as good as loony toons. please forgive me.
Post by: CardBoardBox on November 03, 2003, 03:07:31 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 03:11:38 PM
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And Mouse-clicker, just for the record, what is mature humor?
You tell me- you're the one saying what ISN'T mature humor, so logically if one can't define what mature humor is, humor not being mature can't be a drawback, can it?
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Well, i dont think this thread is the official last word on what had a greater impact, do you?
Excuse me, but that's not even open for debate- Loony Tunes, along with Disney's cartoons, Popeye, and Tom and Jerry had a GIGANTIC impact on the movie and television industry- you quite simmply cannot deny that. Granted the Simpsons did begin a renaissance of modern television, but you can't possibly compare it's impact to that of Loony Tunes. Ask ANY animation historian and they'll tell you the exact same thing.
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Invader Zim is arguably just as good, however.
Invader Zim, along with Spongebod Squarepants, is VERY overrated- it's pretty decent, but if you think it's as good as Loony Tunes, you've got a lot of cartoon watching to do, man.
In my opinion, Nickelodean stopped making good cartoons after they cancelled Angry Beavers (excellent show).
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 03, 2003, 03:14:26 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 03, 2003, 03:33:32 PM
But Invader Zim is NOT overrated. I daresay it's better than what credit it's given. But that's just me. . . it's the best show on the air nowadays.
Well, before it got CANCEL'D that is. One thing about Invader Zim I really like is a subtle use of humor. . . well, not necessarily subtle, since it can sometimes be pretty obvious. But as a creator of humor and somesuch stuff myself, I've become capable of seeing when things take a lot of time or genius to think of. And Invader Zim is one of those things.
But now I'm thinking of Angry Beavers. I'm going to go see if I can scrape up some stuff off of Kazaa.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 03:35:36 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 03, 2003, 03:37:12 PM
Post by: Berny on November 03, 2003, 04:36:46 PM
(NOTE TO READER: I have no idea if the above mentioned site exists. I am not responsible for you typing in nickelodeonemesis.com and gettin pr0n, a virus, or instructions on how to kill people.)
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 04:38:03 PM
Post by: ThePerm on November 03, 2003, 05:20:10 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 05:24:06 PM
No, no, the Simpsons is an amazingly great cartoon, one of the best I've ever had the privelage of watching, just not THE best. And my generation my schmeneration- besides the fact I'm defending a 70 year old cartoon series versus a 15 year old one, you're no more than 10 years older than me, which I hardly consider a "generation".
Post by: ThePerm on November 03, 2003, 06:31:39 PM
Post by: The Omen on November 03, 2003, 06:37:19 PM
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You tell me- you're the one saying what ISN'T mature humor, so logically if one can't define what mature humor is, humor not being mature can't be a drawback, can it?
What in tarnation are you babbling about? I didnt say anything was mature or immature, i said The Simpsons is more cerebral. Does that make it more mature?
No. I dont even think theres such a thing. Maybe Dennis Miller? I don't know...
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Excuse me, but that's not even open for debate- Loony Tunes, along with Disney's cartoons, Popeye, and Tom and Jerry had a GIGANTIC impact on the movie and television industry- you quite simmply cannot deny that. Granted the Simpsons did begin a renaissance of modern television, but you can't possibly compare it's impact to that of Loony Tunes. Ask ANY animation historian and they'll tell you the exact same thing.
Sorry Mouse-clicker, but i never said the simpsons had more of impact. Once again, you jump to conclusions in your zeal to defend something that wasnt insulted in the first place. I wasnt comparing impact. I like the Simpsons better, how can you dispute a preference?
When i said this thread isnt the be all, end all, well, it isnt. Where did i say you're wrong?
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 03, 2003, 06:38:27 PM
Gah, sorry about the mature thing- that was Ian who said that, I get you two mixed up all the time.
Regarding impact, however, you did say this:Quote
Well, i dont think this thread is the official last word on what had a greater impact, do you?
I was resonding to the obviously implied allegation that we cannot determine which had the greater impact, the Simpsons or Loony Tunes, which would, by default, mean you don't attribute that to Loony Tunes, where it undoubtedly belongs.
Post by: PIAC on November 03, 2003, 08:53:30 PM
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Originally posted by: The OmenQuote
although, in my opinion, it's very overrated- Futurama, I think, is much funnier
Not in the golden years of The Simpsons, years 2 - 6. Of course, copmparing them now, when the simpsons is 14 seasons old is a little unfair. Check Futurama in 10 years, and see if it stands up then. Of course, its all a matter of taste, and by no means did i mean that by being cerebral Simpsons is better, just its my kind of humor.Quote
The Simpsons however wasn't originally as off-the-wall as it is now and in it's glory days was a much smarter and more sophisticated comedy then Family Guy could ever dream to be. If you compare the peaks of both shows Simpsons wins by a landslide but I feel that Family Guy is what the Simpsons should have been when they switched to the "Homer's wacky adventures" format.
Absolutely agree, but lets see how The Family guy ages.
And Mouse-clicker, just for the record, what is mature humor?
i wish that were possible, to see how futurama and family guy age, but sadly family guy is indeed cancelled, and while futurama isn't officially cancelled they arn't doing any more episodes, bastards. as for loony tunes, undeniably classics, i'm going to rase my kids, should i have any, on loony tunes and such, they will have a proper education damn it
i wan't someone to start up a channel or something with the soul purpose of airing shows that died unjustly, and purchase the rights to them and get them made again, i love angry beavers, family guy, futurama, invader zim, and probably more i can't remember, they demand justice!
Post by: Gibdo Master on November 03, 2003, 10:52:59 PM
I have to say I almost wish they would cancel The Simpsons or bring back some of the old writers or something. One thing that really pushed me over the edge with that show was when they sobered Barney up. What the hell!!! It's just as stupid as if they decided to make Homer thin and intelligent for the rest of the shows run. Good lord. I also got so sick and tired of practically every episode revolving around Lisa and something that she was protesting. Not to mention that after season 8 every episode that had a celebrity guest was horrible, and to make it worse there was like 2 or 3 seasons where it was practically a guest celeb marathon. I find it interesting that most people that swear up and down that The Simpsons are still funny are fairly new to the show. They usually didn't start to watch until around when most of us felt it was turning bad. By the way here's a nice little article about the decline of The Simpsons.
Post by: Plugabugz on November 04, 2003, 03:03:42 AM
Post by: Pale on November 04, 2003, 03:15:26 AM
Has anyone gotten a chance to check the following out?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000AYJXS/qid=1067955244//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl74/002-9576891-7609653?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
I really want to get my hands on that but I don't have the money right now.
As for subliminal messages in Disney movies...I can confirm the "Good teenagers take off your clothes" part of Aladdin...but thats the only one I've been able to hear/see. I've stared at the dust in Lion King for ages and others have claimed they see it spell sex, but I have yet to see it. I dunno, I wouldn't fault the whole movie though for it. Its not like subliminal messages even work... Its just the creators having some fun. You would go a little nuts too if you spent a whole month animating some dust. =P
As for the whats better debate.... I have never been able to get into the Simpsons, but I don't see how you can compare it to Looney Tunes. They are on so many different levels. Part of what makes Looney Tunes so great are the very inside/vague jokes they used to get around the censors that The Simpsons creators don't even have to worry about with the considerably more leniant censors of today. That same reason is why I loved shows like Animaniacs and Freakazoid. They put "adult" humor into a kids show, but did it in such a way that most people didn't even notice. Its pure genius when a writer can make a show that 8 year olds will be in hysterics while watching right along with their parents.
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 04, 2003, 04:11:54 AM
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is he the same guy who doesnt think vieo game comapnies have mascots?"
WOAH. Did that happen to MC too? Or was he just getting me and him mixed up?
(BTW, I just got a lot of people to tell him (the idiouth) Mario was Nintendo's mascot at lunch and WE BEAT HIM DOWN WITH A PING PONG PADDLE)
Post by: The Omen on November 04, 2003, 05:34:55 AM
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I have to say I almost wish they would cancel The Simpsons or bring back some of the old writers or something. One thing that really pushed me over the edge with that show was when they sobered Barney up. What the hell!!! It's just as stupid as if they decided to make Homer thin and intelligent for the rest of the shows run. Good lord. I also got so sick and tired of practically every episode revolving around Lisa and something that she was protesting.
I agree. I compare it to Tom and Jerry, when they actually spoke to eachother and were friends. Playing tennis together! Its what happens when shows get old, original creators are there in name only, and the network wants to milk the old cash cow.
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As for the whats better debate.... I have never been able to get into the Simpsons, but I don't see how you can compare it to Looney Tunes. They are on so many different levels. Part of what makes Looney Tunes so great are the very inside/vague jokes they used to get around the censors that The Simpsons creators don't even have to worry about with the considerably more leniant censors of today.
The Simpsons has tons of inside jokes and references to taboo subjects, without younger kids getting it. Which is why its an enjoyable show , funny to kids in a whole different way than adults. And i'm not comparing them in terms of substance...theyre totally different types of cartoons.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 04, 2003, 06:30:48 AM
Post by: ThePerm on November 04, 2003, 07:07:07 AM
also i really like donald duck cartoons. Especially the classic ones where he's warring with huey, dooie, and louie.
laos censorship was really bad for video games in the early days...i remember looney tunes game got a mature rating in the snes moving into n64 days.
Post by: Gibdo Master on November 04, 2003, 08:39:11 AM
As far as the subliminal messages in Disney movies most of that crap stacks up to being you see and hear what you want too. Someone says the clouds look like a d!ldo in Aladdin and suddenly that's what you see.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 04, 2003, 11:00:20 AM
Chuck Jones directed a lot of the cartoons where Tom and Jerry help eachother, or where Tom actually gets back at Jerry (my personal favorites), but most other people didn't like them.
Post by: The Omen on November 04, 2003, 11:16:34 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 04, 2003, 11:22:58 AM
Post by: The Blue Baron on November 04, 2003, 12:53:42 PM
*hums space jam theme song(or something close to it): "do a dance, take a chance....Space Jam...alright"
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 04, 2003, 01:27:41 PM
Also, a nice little fun fact, Billy West, who does the voice of such people as Fry, Farnsworth, and Dr. Zoidberg from Futurama, as well as the Red M&M, does the voice for Bugs Bunny now.
Post by: ThePerm on November 04, 2003, 02:11:21 PM
....i didnt know billy west could do bugs bunny...
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 04, 2003, 02:53:28 PM
Post by: ThePerm on November 04, 2003, 05:48:41 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 04, 2003, 06:09:19 PM
Post by: ThePerm on November 04, 2003, 07:23:28 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 02:28:00 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 05, 2003, 09:24:35 AM
Family Guy is a funny show, too. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but it's got some good subtle humor, too, and whoever makes it is really good.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 10:43:15 AM
Post by: ThePerm on November 05, 2003, 10:53:19 AM
it was actually funny the first time i watched zim..it was the first episode...and i was like wtf is on nick right now...i wonder...i havn't watched nick in years since they took off R&S....(i would flip the channel to see if they had any new shows on..but everything sucked(cept real monsters and angry beavers...nowadays its crap like hey arnold and rugrats)and then i flipped the channel and i was like yes!!!!! The show was twisted and awesome...i loved it. finally Nick had something good on again. Damned Nick for cancelling it.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 11:18:02 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on November 05, 2003, 11:48:07 AM
I never liked Family Guy, just didn't do anything for me. It's kind of weird that the is consideration for a Futurama movie and it's not on anymore, where The Simpsons have been on like half my life and they don't have a movie, why is that?As for cartoons, other than the classic's, that I like, are Kim Possible, and Fairly Odd Parents.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 11:51:15 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on November 05, 2003, 02:00:12 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 02:01:33 PM
Post by: CardBoardBox on November 05, 2003, 03:31:37 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 03:35:36 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2003, 03:36:59 PM
Post by: CardBoardBox on November 05, 2003, 03:43:48 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2003, 03:50:28 PM
Tell me what song you want, and I'll see what I can do
Post by: CardBoardBox on November 05, 2003, 03:51:23 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2003, 03:53:22 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 04:19:57 PM
Here's a feeble attempt- does anyone have the Loony Tunes Golden Collection DVD? Magnifcent set, if I do say so myself. It has 56 classic Loony Tunes cartoons spread across 4 discs, with soundtracks, commentary, and documentaries for many of them. I urge you all to go out and get it.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2003, 04:23:20 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 04:25:00 PM
Post by: CardBoardBox on November 05, 2003, 04:27:48 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2003, 04:36:08 PM
Plus, I get all of them, not just a small sample...^_^
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 04:40:25 PM
Still no commentaries. Cardboard: Cartoon Network shows a bunch of old Popeye and Loony Tunes every Saturday night starting at 2 AM (pleh).
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 05, 2003, 04:43:39 PM
)Don't they have Acme Hour anymore? *hasn't watched a show earlier than 10 p.m. in 2 years*
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 05, 2003, 05:23:27 PM
Sadly, Cartoon Network does not show the Acme Hour anymore. They DO still show Toon Heads, the Chuck Jones Show, and Bugs and Daffy, though. Unfortunately, they also don't show the Tex Avery Show or the Bob Clampett show.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 20, 2003, 10:29:37 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on November 20, 2003, 10:51:22 AM
The Golden Collection looks awesome but I'm reluctant to buy it in fear that next year they'll release the Platinum Collection which has all of the Golden shorts plus more. Buying DVDs is like a gamble with all of the double dipping companies do.
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 20, 2003, 11:05:47 AM
The Batman animated series, in my eyes, is one of the greatest action shows to date, cartoon or not. Not only was it very accurate to the comics (much more accurate than any of the movies), it really captured the atmosphere and mood of Batman, and I really liked that. Besides, Mark Hamill does the greatest Joker ever.
I'd really also like them to release the Superman animated series on DVD, since I liked it almost as much as Batman.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 20, 2003, 11:15:50 AM
Post by: Shift Key on November 20, 2003, 12:54:24 PM
He only gets a few lines each episode, and I always laugh at anything he says. I saw an episode which he was the main character (he eats the world flag or something, chaos follows, etc) and that was probably my favourite.
If they made a movie about a cartoon character, they should do it on him.
Homer's been done to death (but I'll keep laughing) and its a shame that Futurama isn't continuing.
HOORAY FOR ZOIDBERG! WOOP WOOP WOOP!
Post by: Ian Sane on November 20, 2003, 01:18:30 PM
