Post by: nolimit19 on October 13, 2003, 04:01:39 PM
http://www.antimusic.com/news/03/oct/item13.shtml
Post by: AdvancedGamer on October 13, 2003, 04:20:09 PM
I totally agree... when used in the right way "F" is just a term to really emphasize something. It's just an adjective describing something, even though it may sound a little too "strong." If something crazy happened or something and I said that's f---ing awesome would that offend you. It sure wouldn't offend me. It might offend you if you were a parent with a little kid next to you but other than that why would it bother you. Does the word freaking bother you? Thats freaking awesome!!! See that offends no one... its the same thing. Now you would be offended (maybe) if I called you a freak. You would be offended if I used it in a provacitve way by saying f--k you or I f--ked her last night because that sounds horrible.
Anyway I'm just trying to make a point and don't get offended...as the French author and deist Voltaire once said: " I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I am interested to see others opinions on this matter.
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 13, 2003, 04:21:35 PM
It's been pissing me off for years that we can show boobs on TV, we can show people getting killed on TV, and all kinds of other crap, but we can't f***ing swear on TV. I almost flew into a homicidal rage the other day when I was watching one of the Lethal Weapon movies on TV, and I discovered that they censored the scene where Murtaugh's daughter is in the condom commercial. It was still there, but they changed all the wording. I was VERY pissed off.
Last I heard, profanity never hurt nobody, and I am pleased to see that the FCC finally agrees. Bloody wankers.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 13, 2003, 04:25:35 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 13, 2003, 05:38:50 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 13, 2003, 05:43:17 PM
BANS THEPERM AND EXILES HIM TO SIBERIA
Post by: ThePerm on October 13, 2003, 05:47:31 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 13, 2003, 06:31:16 PM
Over here, if you have the movie on at prime time or later at night, then any swear word is allowed.
Last year, channel 7 aired Die HArd, which I taped, but I realised that they censored it, so when McClane says "Yippee Kai-yay Mutha f**ker", it became just simple "Yipee Kai-yay". This pissed me off a bit.
However, since then, Die Hard and all other movies have been aired UNcensored, which is a relief. There has been exceptions, where the f word is used as part of a joke, like in Speed when Keanu Reeves looks under the bus and sees the bomb, and says "F**k me!", and the guy on the phone relaying the info to Jeff Daniels says with reluctance "Oh Darn". Hahaha.
Like they said, in the right context, the f word is simply used to emphasize a point.
I thought nolimit was saying that they allowed the use of the f word IN GENERAL to be used at ANY TIME. THAT'S when it would be the end of humanity.
One thing i am also VERY annoyed about is the way harmless children's shows (especially those aimed at girls), can become a hive of activity that parents don't want their kids exposed to, like sexual content.
There are two shows I'm talking about:
Lizzie McGuire and one show made here called The Saddle Club.
The thing with these shows is that, of course, the female stars grow up.
So while Hilary Duff and the girls of Saddle Club may be young and sweet when the show first started, now that they are older (Duff is what, 16 or 17 now and the Saddle Club girls are like 14 or 15), their clothes get shorter and tighter and, in the case of the Saddle Club, the girl's interests move from horses and riding them, to boys and what to wear when going out.
A great influence on young pre-teen girls I'm sure, like my 8 year old cousin, whose favourite CD is her new Hilary Duff album, which features pics of her in revealing singlets, gold chains, a tartan mini skirt, and salon-styled hair.
I see girls as young as 5 wearing low cut jeans and denim jackets with PLATFORM BOOTS for crying out loud!
UGH.
SO while it is inevitable that young people are influence buy the things around them, I just wanted to say something about it.
What do you guys think?
EDIT: Oh, and if parents actually WANT to dress their young girls like 18 year olds, then please, don't blame me if their kids are involved in underage porn and rape cases.
THAT, for me, is when it's the end of the world, figuratively speaking.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 13, 2003, 06:52:45 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 13, 2003, 07:08:59 PM
In any case, just because the FCC ruled the word CAN be used on network TV doesn't mean it WILL be. Technically cable has been allowed say the word uncensored all along, but they know they'll probably lose a lot of viewers if they do, which is why you hardly ever see it except really late at night in very special cases.
Post by: Moonwatcher on October 13, 2003, 07:18:13 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 13, 2003, 07:30:29 PM
Youth is wasted on the young
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 13, 2003, 07:38:41 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 13, 2003, 07:48:40 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 14, 2003, 01:33:34 PM
I think it would be SO weird if in 20 years time, there was a documentary about the 'beginning of the 21st century', and it mentions how sheltered we were as a viewing public.
Stay tuned, however, for News in Briefs with Britney Timberlake, then GEX: Gut Eruption Extreme 5 starring Arnold Stallone for the Saturday morning movie.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 14, 2003, 02:26:49 PM
However I can sympathize with parents who don't want their kids watching shows with gorey violence and "f*cks" dropped every ten seconds. I know I won't want my kids being exposed to that sort of thing at a young age. However that doesn't mean everything has to be censored. I don't know how it is in America but in Canada tv shows are given ratings and a little ratings logo appears in the top corner of the screen after every commercial break. In the case of 13+ or 18+ rated shows often (depending on the network I find) a warning message is displayed detailing the content shown. It's not much different then the ESRB which I generally support (though I often disagree with some of their ratings). One local channel actually has managed to show R-rated movies, uncut, during prime time because they displayed the 18+ logo and had a warning message after every commercial break. It's a great way to do it because a viewer is warned about content and can make the choice themselves. If kids are still seeing "inappropriate" content it becomes the parents fault.
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 14, 2003, 02:54:39 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 14, 2003, 03:11:37 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 14, 2003, 04:12:31 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 14, 2003, 04:20:33 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 14, 2003, 04:34:31 PM
</rant>
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 14, 2003, 05:28:23 PM
*nods head*
I think what Bill said is true, but I also think what MC said about fuhk being just a word is true, also. I really don't know what to think. I'll shut up now.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 14, 2003, 06:38:11 PM
I was saying I'd rather comedians prove they're funny withOUT profanity before they actually use it, since comedians who fall back on profanity for a quick and easy laugh are completely and utterly uncreative in my opinion. I don't care if you use swear words in your everyday vocabulary- I too am against censorship on the whole, and I swear quite a bit in my every day speech (although people who do it all the time appear unintelligent to me). As I said, I'm all for the repealing of the ban of the word f*** from network TV.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 14, 2003, 08:46:57 PM
back to the point though...you cant cuss in public, why can you cuss on public tv...a complete double standard that needs to stop. and if anyone can answer why that double standard is ok, then i would agree that maybe its ok to have the f word on public broadcasting. until then i will laugh because i know i am right. i mean if censorship is bad, then you should be able to run around naked at preschools. "YOU DONT WANT TO HIDE KIDS FROM REALITY!! THERE ARE NAKED PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD, THE SOONER THE KIDS ARE EXPOSED TO THEM, THE BETTER OFF WE ARE AS A COUNTRY!!!" i mean seriously think this through....whats the difference from censoring and normal laws. we need order. people just cant say whatever whenever. i like how a lot of my questions were dodged and not answered...they are simply not answerable.
again back to the point. the key here is that network telivision is on public air waves. i dont think you understnad that. meaning not private.....meaning it is subject to public standards. do you understnd what any of these words mean or would you like me to cuss it out for you. well hopefully i pissed people off and got my point across, but in all honesty....i respect everyones opinion, even if i dont show it at times....
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 15, 2003, 01:49:06 AM
I mean, for example, when you go to a job interview, do you laugh, slap the interviewer's back and say: "Hey man, i need this job so f**king much cause i need to pay my f**king bills, you understand right? Hahaha see ya later pal."
No...
Sure it'll give the guy an impression that you're laid back and can get along with people, but given the situation, it's not appropriate. So you say you were brought up with profanity an so on, but you DO know when and where it's appropriate when to and not to swear right?
If you don't, then thats a problem.
Likewise, just because the f word has been allowed for a show, doesn't mean it should be allowed for all shows. Teaching kids profanity at a young age (which will never happen) doesn't mean that they will be better off. They won't know when it's appropriate to say it or not - for example, if Elmo starts cussing, kids will think it's ok to cuss too. If Hilary Duff starts wearing skin tight clothes that get 20 year old guys reaching up her skirt, then of course some girls, maybe even MOST of them will think it's ok - and that it's ok for guys to act that way.
It's just the standards, Ninja, and the appropriateness.
I'm not against you (and don't think that i am), I'm just against your standing on censorship.
Sure it sucks in some cases (like in movies), but it's there for a reason.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 03:26:22 AM
nolimit: To the best of my knowledge, profanity is not banned in public. I don't even know how they'd enforce such a law. I've heard swearing in public so many times my ears should be bleeding, but I've never seen arrested or fined.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 03:28:45 AM
Heh, personally I think those that swear all the time act like monkeys, but whatever...
"Teaching kids profanity at a young age (which will never happen) doesn't mean that they will be better off."
As I said, I have seen many cases of this. Of course, not every child watches R movies or listens to rap music. This is where the Domino effect comes in. One kid starts using words around other kids, and then they think it's ok...I've seen this first-hand too, mainly at my sister's middleschool. You should really walk down the halls of a lower school and just listen to what the kids around you talk about...It's pretty disturbing...
(edit: Swearing is protected by the First Amendment)
Post by: Shift Key on October 15, 2003, 03:58:50 AM
The f-word has its own time and place. Not on television. I can understand some late movies not being bleeped, I've got no problems with that.
I have heard c**p on the Simpsons a few times (all by Homer if my memory is correct), and it is these times he is in hysterics. One of my favourite quotes in the Simpsons is "Sweet Merciful c**p!" It's not offensive at all, its just Homer emphasising his feelings, and it doesn't stand out. Not that it makes it any better.
A quote by Izaak Walton:
Quote
The person that loses their conscience has nothing left worth keeping.
Someone saying swearing is fine, regardless of circumstance, needs to switch their brain back on. This act does not change my view that society is changing, it is just making fewers things unacceptable. I am not anti-censorship, but the laws do need better definition. I am not the one who should be making them, I'd rather bitch about what is wrong with them.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I can remember my mum telling me she thinks people swear because of a lack of vocabulary, and I actually agree with her. It's sad to see all these rappers belting out fowl language, because it is these people that influence the youth of the world.
Ian: I agree with art not being censored, but then you'll get musicians saying that their work is art too, which is absolutely absurd. Those people shouldn't need to swear anyway. Bring back MC Hammer! Hammertime!
Grey:
QuoteWhat? How do a few cuss words make up a good portion of our language? There's a whole dictionary of words to use, why limit yourself to just them?
I think that swearing is a perfectly acceptable and smarter thing to do than to forbid yourself from using a good portion of our language
I'll admit, I swear from time to time, but there is a time for it. America's Army is fine. Public television isn't.
As for a line to be drawn, it will only ever be a line in the sand.
EDIT: Rethinking.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 15, 2003, 06:06:16 AM
The regulation regarding the f-word is just silly. Saying the intent wasn't offensive is just dumb. How would these same people react if their 6 year old came home from school and said they had had a "f**king great day"? I doubt they would say it was fine because of the child's intent.
Post by: Ian Sane on October 15, 2003, 07:27:15 AM
However with TV it's a little different because it's not real life. Usually on TV or in a movie a character that swears the whole time is usually potrayed as a rude person which is an accurate representation of real life. Often if the character isn't potrayed as rude you'll see them swearing with friends (which is pretty normal) or when they are really angry. Several times in films when someone is swearing in public they usually are creating a scene and the people around them are offended. All of that is okay because it's pretty similar to real life and it still doesn't make it seem like swearing in public is acceptable. If all the characters were swearing in public and it was potrayed as an acceptable practise then that's completely different because that's not realistic and says it's okay to swear in public. That is the movie or tv equivalent of swearing in public.
It's much like the difference between having a character kill a soldier in war and having them go through the streets randomly killing people and being potrayed as a good person for doing so.
Post by: The Omen on October 15, 2003, 09:29:15 AM
Society continues to go downhill, and this is just a cherry on top of this disgraceful trend of the last 30 years. And please, dont give me that ratings B.S. We all know they don't work. Especially if the parent isn't home to enforce it. Then theres the v-chip, which any kid with half a brain can get around. Even i used to figure out my Moms code for Pay-per-view back in the day.
I am not against swearing at all, but in this instance, what good does it do? Make it more realistic? Would, or should, a kid know whether or not cursing is realistic anyway?
Quote
However with TV it's a little different because it's not real life. Usually on TV or in a movie a character that swears the whole time is usually potrayed as a rude person which is an accurate representation of real life. Often if the character isn't potrayed as rude you'll see them swearing with friends (which is pretty normal) or when they are really angry. Several times in films when someone is swearing in public they usually are creating a scene and the people around them are offended. All of that is okay because it's pretty similar to real life and it still doesn't make it seem like swearing in public is acceptable.
When is it portrayed as rude? I find most of the time, its done just in conversation. And kids dont care if it's acceptable or not. You think they're saying, oh, these people/actors are offended, so i wont say that?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 10:17:33 AM
Post by: ThePerm on October 15, 2003, 11:37:56 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 11:48:27 AM
Post by: ThePerm on October 15, 2003, 01:05:08 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 01:23:38 PM
Yes, the meaning of a word is carved by our society. If the word "shampoo" meant something derogatory, then that would be taboo. But it's not a good comparison in this case, because we were brought up to know that "shampoo" is a clean(heh, no pun intended) word...The whole point of language is that each word means something, and in this case "f***" is something bad. I really don't care to read arguments that "f***" is "just a word" when the whole point of the word not accepted in society is the word's meaning...
And I just can't see how limiting profanity is "smothering"...I guess it is to those who use it to fill half their vocabulary...
Post by: ThePerm on October 15, 2003, 02:19:08 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 15, 2003, 02:20:25 PM
Sure, it's unacceptable, but it's almost imposible not too. I hear little 3rd graders swearing at me all the time. In fact, sometimes it's the little kids that swear more!
I remember one time, I was at some park and these kids were skate boarding, and one little kid was swearin' left and right, and the high schoolers over in the corner were dumbfounded at how fowl the kid really was.
Post by: The Omen on October 15, 2003, 02:22:45 PM
Quote
Let's make another distinction here- it's not the weord f*** that's wrong, it's how society views it.
Okay. And why does society view it negatively? Because of the context its used in!
I am really starting to think theres just a demographic difference in this thread. When you're young you just want everything to be free and available, when you're older, you start realising the problems with a 'everything goes' society. I was the same way.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 02:23:36 PM
Post by: Koopa Troopa on October 15, 2003, 02:29:43 PM
Quote
We still have words, phrases, etc that are considered taboo for television. In maybe 30 or 40 years' time, we'll be telling our grandkids that you actually couldn't say f*** or sh** on television!
And what then, forty years after that? Which vulgarities will we have justified by then? Under age Sex? Drugs? Pornography in daytime television? When do we stop undermining the morality that has made our nation great?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 02:31:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing<brSure, it's unacceptable, but it's almost imposible not too. I hear little 3rd graders swearing at me all the time. In fact, sometimes it's the little kids that swear more!
This is the problem I am talking about...Just think...Where are these kids learning these words? Hmmmmmmm? From what they see on TV and what music they listen to...
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
It's just a word- what's wrong with a word?
Do you like being called a "f***er"? If not, then you obviously have something in your head telling you that it's a "bad word." 99% of the time the word is used in a derogatory/demeaning sense, so I see no reason for it to be used...
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 15, 2003, 02:36:43 PM
I mean honestly, if you can stand listening to someone verbally assault you without cursing, but you are going to get up in arms about the f word, well what the (you know the word). If you want to go ballistic about the context it is used, I can just about twist every word with the right inflection to sound scary as hell. Really though, god forbid they curse on TV, we wouldn't want to give parents another reason to blame someone else would we?
Post by: nolimit19 on October 15, 2003, 02:43:26 PM
....obviously everyone in hte younger gen has bad mouths because of the damn rap music....and sure older people cuss too, in fact a lot of people cuss a lot of the time....isnt it amazing that so many people still consider it bad???? NO, IT ISNT AMAZING....BECAUSE ITS LOGICAL! everyone knows that there is a time a place for these things...just a lowering of standards by the extreme left...their next thing will be full birth abortions and fighting for the right to preform human sacrafice on tv. because "everyone needs to be able to do whatever they want, and lets sacrafice all forms of logic to acomidate that." typical liberal thought process....and although i fight it, i just come to expect it, i am not suprised by anything any more. the liberals are also trying to abolish marrige as we know it in america...at this rate, america will not be anything in 100 years. its just a complete moral fall out. without any structure, the country will be in chaos...everyone will be obese, abort kids, and the kids they do have will have respect for nothing because they are bad ass gangsta rapper wannabes. all i know is that i am getting a cain when i reach about 50 so i can hit all the undiciplined kids on the head. and when there dumb liberal parents come to talk to me about it, i will hit them too.
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 15, 2003, 02:47:31 PM
I just wanted to share my little story with you all.
I was backing you up, that's all. I guess.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 02:56:00 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 15, 2003, 03:02:12 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 03:09:53 PM
Anyway, that's a nice speech and all, but it does nothing to prove any point of your whatsoever. The only power words have is the power you LET them have. If you refuse to take the word f*** as offensive, you'll find you have no problem with anyone saying it. That's all I'm saying. You will only be mad when someone calls you a f***er if you LET yourself get mad. It's as simple as that. A word is merely a collection of sounds intended to register a specific response- block that response and you'll lose your negative opinion of the word.
Post by: ThePerm on October 15, 2003, 03:11:34 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 15, 2003, 03:17:00 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 15, 2003, 03:26:10 PM
Quote
Anyway, that's a nice speech and all, but it does nothing to prove any point of your whatsoever.
So, Mouse-clicker, when are you going to prove it's not detrimental? Are racial slurs acceptable to you as well? They're only words, aren't they?
Quote
Times are changing- you either change with them or get left behind.
Just like the french going along with the Nazis? If they're changing for the worst, should i still change with them? What are we, lemmings?
Saying words have no meaning is great and all, But we dont live in an utopian society, where everythings how its supposed to be, do we?
Quote
Wow, some of you guys really would hate me in person. I mean, I can be nice and all, but I have a nice little poddy mouth. I mean honestly, if you are shallow enough to come off and go on a pouty escapade about 5 words I use invariably, I really don't need to waste my time talking to you.
Wow, I was unaware you had a t.v. show. We're talking about television, in case you missed it. Many have already admitted that they curse all the time, including myself, so what relevance does your post hold?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 03:26:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Second, that if you call me a "f***er", you're just bringing yourself down to my level.
I honestly don't think you meant to write what you wrote
Post by: ThePerm on October 15, 2003, 03:45:47 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 15, 2003, 04:11:54 PM
Hahah! Hilarious!
The Perm.....did you just swear at me in another language??? I don't care! I am stronger than that! Hoo-rah!
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 04:22:04 PM
Meaning if you were pissed off enough at me to call me a "f***er", doing so would only bring you down to the level you see me at.Quote
And what then, forty years after that? Which vulgarities will we have justified by then? Under age Sex? Drugs? Pornography in daytime television? When do we stop undermining the morality that has made our nation great?
Whe are you going to realize it's not our morality (or lack thereof) that makes our nation great? The US is full of sleeze balls and people who are afraid of offending everybody- THEY'RE not why our country is great, my friend. THEY'RE why everybody else hates us.
Quote
So, Mouse-clicker, when are you going to prove it's not detrimental? Are racial slurs acceptable to you as well? They're only words, aren't they?
I won't call someone a racial slur because I know it would most likely offend them- racial slurs are the biggest problem I have. They lack definitions, like f*** or sh**- they're simply alternate names for a group of people. Why are some names worse than others? It doesn't make sense! Like I said, I'm mindful of other people's views and wouldn't call them a racial slur, but that doesn't mean I think the word is "bad".
Quote
Just like the french going along with the Nazis? If they're changing for the worst, should i still change with them? What are we, lemmings?
Saying words have no meaning is great and all, But we dont live in an utopian society, where everythings how its supposed to be, do we?
Perhaps you misread me, but what I meant was that if you stubbornly try to remain in the past, you WILL be left behind with no one to blame but yourself. You must react to the future, not let it carry you along. And saying words have no meaning isn't JUST for an idealistic society. Sure, it would be ideal if everyone realized as such, but that doesn't change the fact the the only reason YOU don't want the word f*** being said on network television is because YOU find it offensive. *I* don't find it offensive, so how can f*** have the same meaning to me?
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 15, 2003, 04:24:03 PM
And I think it's quite strange that you've gotten around the language filter, and i have mentioned that before.
IF you're parents start swearing at you, like Perm's example of 'f**king get over here*, then
1) you're gonna become just like them, ie you're gonna start swearing and cussing 24/7 too
2) you're gonna think that it's OK to swear 24/7
So it does come down to how you were brought up. Parents and outside influences such as entertainment and the schoolyard environment are majorly involved. And not just for how kids talk either, but how they behave and the way they judge and perceive the world around them.
Sure, maybe TV broadcasters wouldn't show extreme violence or extreme profanity unless people already do that as Perm said, but it's one HUGE paradox:
People are influence by what they see on TV, but then broadcasters show things on TV based on what is popular with the masses. It's like the games industry, but thats for another time. I've done classes on all of this stuff before. We watched videos, did readings, wrote essays, all of this in school AND University.
And nolimit, it was the topic of consumerism
If this loop continues, then the morals of humanity (not humanity in general like the thread says), will come to and end. When that happens though, it will seem like humanity will end. People will have no concept of decent behaviour:
Do you think it's ok to harrass women? Grab their asses and make passes at them? Even protitutes are people too. Do you think it's ok to swear out loud in public? DO you think it's ok to be abusive to kids or your parents? To others? Do you think that it's ok to kill someone because he tried to do any of the above? What about starting riots at Sporting matches cause your team lost?
If you answered yes to any of these, leave. NOW.
My friends seem to love driving to this hotspot in Sydney where protitues work and throw eggs, profanity and other things at them (not Kings Cross, its too crowded). They've even asked me to join them, but i *sadly* have to decline as I'm doing assignments for uni. Their behavour is wrong, and i've said that to them, but they still do it whenever they're cruising around and get bored.
I know that poeple swear in public, like Mouse Clicker, Perm, Ninja and others have proclaimed, but when you do, how do you do it? Do you just do it when talking to your friends, in a private conversation? Out loud like so many gangs and other indecent people? Do you actualy have a brain and switch it on every now and then to know when NOT to swear or act indecently?
I know that private conversations can become loud, like when there's a joke or you can't seem to controlt he volume of your voice, but then it DOES become offensive.
Mouse, i know you don't have a problem with people swearing at you (maybe even abusing you?), but then many people say thet simply to keep their chin up and act tough. Maybe it IS ok with you, I'll never know, cause I'll never have the chance to meet you and do it in person (thats not a threat ok? Don't take it personally - it's just an example for my rant here
).There might be some inconsistencies in my rant, but meh. Correct if i'm wrong and i'll just reply back with a rebuttle.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 15, 2003, 04:31:09 PM
edit: consumerism and the way it owns our society is scary, and unless you understand that concept, you may not understand where i am coming from entirely. and just because you have no respect for yourself and dont mind people cussing at you, doesnt mean that everyone else is a gutless coward like you.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 04:31:13 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 15, 2003, 04:37:15 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 15, 2003, 04:40:33 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 15, 2003, 04:42:15 PM
I don't think it is. You can get arrested for just threatening somebody in public. Hitting them without doing any damage is still illegal.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 15, 2003, 04:43:54 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 15, 2003, 04:44:52 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 15, 2003, 05:25:39 PM
Quote
Quote: mouse_clicker
Let's make one more important distinction- swearing is NOT the same as sexual harrassment, or of the like. I don't know how they can even be compared. I DO believe in decent behavior, but I DON'T believe swearing should be counted among that. I don't even know why we have a special set of words we can't say- WORDS are WORDS, people. What those words mean depends on the person but the fact remains that words can NEVER hurt you if you don't let them. It's as simple as that. The reason people find swearing offensive is because they let themselves find it offensive, not because it IS offensive, which is subjective. Therefor something that is subjective should NOT be censored, as different people will take it different ways, and those who take it negatively just DON'T have to watch the show. I'm surprised such a large discussion has sprung from something like this.
Geez Mouse clicker!
I/we are saying that swearing how YOU view it to be is indencent behaviour. I'm not saying that swearing is as bad as sexual harrassment, but it comes under the SAME topic of indecent behaviour. The fact that sexual harrassment is a more serious offence probably leads you to believe that the two can't be compared. And to an extent, you're right. What I'M trying to say is that it all starts somewhere:
Kids learn to swear form their parents. Ok, fair enough. They also learn swear words and how they are used through song lyrics and movies.
I'm no psychologist, but I'll try my best.
It all comes down to the parents.
Kids are naturally rebellious in one way or another to their parents - at what age depends on the kid. Usually when your parents tell you not to swear, you think it's a cool grown up thing so you start swearing too. That always happens. When they tell you to do something, you do something else. Not all the time, but some times. It happens in all cases, like being grounded, going to a 'sleep over', going to a 'birthday party', etc.
Another thing that kids like to do is FEEL and ACT like grown ups. This is fact. I've done it, you've done it, your parents and grandparents have done it. This all has to do with the fads and trends of the day.
Now, girls are influenced by teen sensations and pop idols such as Hilary Duff, Britney Spears, Spice Girls, Destiny's Child......the list goes on. As such, they start wearing those clothes, acting like sluts and proclaming girl power. It makes them feel older, and part of something bigger. It happens to the guys too, although not as much and extreme as girls. Eminem, Justin Timberlake, John Mayer (he's a cool cat this guy
).Kids listen to RnB, hip hop and rap. There is just so much of it around, it's thick enough to cut with a knife. The tunes maybe phat, the intent maybe cool, but the lyrics are just sometimes too extreme to be heard by young ears. But still, it goes on. They tell us to 'respeckk' (!) their art, and fine, i do. It's just that once something becomes cool, everyone does it.
NOw, onto my main point again.
Parents sometimes, although nowadays mostly realise that their kids wish to act like grown ups. So they let their kids listen to Eminem with no problem at all. One thing I'm quite disturbed about is how some parents would let this extened to family outings. I went to see bad boys 2, and i was surprised to see so many families with young kids around. They were having a good time at seeing body parts exploding, naked women, drug dealers snorting cocaine, and my god. It just.....disturbed me. Another thing is when i went to see charlies angels 2. I think me and my friends were the oldest ones there, cause the only crowd i saw were 12 year olds making out, chasing each other around the cinema only to 'accidentally land' on top of each other, girls in tight, low cut denims, it just freaked me out that their parents would allow this.
Sure it's the trend of the day, but like I've said before, the parents and the kids are practically PARADING their bodies around for all to see.
I have to finish here, cause i am in a hurry to see a movie (Kill Bill will be awesome!), and hopefull i can finish it later once you guys have replied.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 05:29:12 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 15, 2003, 05:41:10 PM
)As you might have noticed, at the start of this thread, I had the "it's only a word thing" in my head. But since then my veiw has changed.
"I'm saying that swearing is just a set of words, and hence is exempt from being classified as "indecent behavior". "
You could go with that "it's a set of words" thing, sure. But you also said that it's only offensive if you interpret it to be offensive, otherwise it's just another word. The way I see it, is that society has taken the word to be offensive, therefore categorizing it under "indecent behavior"
"I don't see swearing as being included in any sort of morals at all."
Why not? Like I said, because society has taken these words to be "vulgar" "rude" and "indecent" saying them could go against your morals. It's simple.
Everything has to do with the connotation (is that the right word?) of the word. an "ass" is really a donkey, but if somebody calls you an 'ass' on the street, will people say "oh, he just called that guy a donkey!"?
Swearing is just a set of words, but society has given them an extreme negative meaning, making them different from this set of words: "matches, potato, carrot, broom, computer, lolly-pop."
Swears=mean.
Post by: ThePerm on October 15, 2003, 05:47:18 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 15, 2003, 05:49:06 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 05:52:52 PM
*leaves, tripping on the way out*
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 05:54:04 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 15, 2003, 06:06:33 PM
I agree, too bad I contributed too it.
"It's my BELIEF that people should realise words have no power except the power you grant them, but I certainly don't consider you immoral if you don't- it's just a different viewpoint. I don't think people should exclude words from their vocabular under the pretense that they're "immoral"."
When you use the words "belief" "viewpoint" "THINK" (
) and "consider" I am more inclined to agree with you. Keep in mind that I usually jump into arguments after reading half the things people wrote. Actually, you did a good job stating that it was your opinion last post.
*gives mouse_clicker a cookie*
Post by: The Omen on October 15, 2003, 06:15:27 PM
Quote
Sure, it would be ideal if everyone realized as such, but that doesn't change the fact the the only reason YOU don't want the word f*** being said on network television is because YOU find it offensive.
I don't find it offensive at all, to tell you the truth. I curse like a sailor. I'm just worried more about young kids than anything else.
Hostile creation-The breakdfast club is my all time favorite movie. I recently saw it on tv , and it was hilarious what they were coming up with. When Bender screams 'F*** YOU!' at the principal, it said 'Kick you!!!' So funny in a stupid way.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 06:20:07 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 06:29:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
F*** is just a word, no different from any other entry in the extensive English language, and words have no meaning except those taken on by the listener.
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
It's just a word- what's wrong with a word?
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
A word is merely a collection of sounds intended to register a specific response- block that response and you'll lose your negative opinion of the word.
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Like I said, I'm mindful of other people's views and wouldn't call them a racial slur, but that doesn't mean I think the word is "bad".
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
WORDS are WORDS, people. What those words mean depends on the person but the fact remains that words can NEVER hurt you if you don't let them.
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I'm saying that swearing is just a set of words, and hence is exempt from being classified as "indecent behavior". One can have morals yet still swear- I don't see swearing as being included in any sort of morals at all. It's outside the parameters of morals, so I don't think we should even be discussing that.
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
I agree that young kids shouldn't be learning what words like f*** MEAN at such a young age, but by itself it's just a word.
Stop saying the same things!
*Goes unconscious after beating his head against the wall*
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 15, 2003, 06:31:26 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 06:37:23 PM
Topics like these never progress...ever...^_^
Post by: nolimit19 on October 15, 2003, 07:06:22 PM
Post by: Shift Key on October 15, 2003, 07:17:17 PM
*spins around in circle, hits head and collapses*
YAY! CONCUSSION'D!
But anyway, this sounds like it should be locked. Any last words?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 15, 2003, 07:26:02 PM
"Are you sure the power is off?" -Unknown
"The earth is suffocating... Swear to make them cut me open, so that I won't be buried alive." -Frederic Chopin
"Waiting are they? Waiting are they? Well--let 'em wait." -Ethan Allen
"Go away. I'm all right." -H.G.Wells
Post by: nolimit19 on October 15, 2003, 07:28:29 PM
Post by: Koopa Troopa on October 15, 2003, 10:21:59 PM
Quote
Whe are you going to realize it's not our morality (or lack thereof) that makes our nation great? The US is full of sleeze balls and people who are afraid of offending everybody- THEY'RE not why our country is great, my friend. THEY'RE why everybody else hates us.
Yeah our GENERATION is full of sleeze balls, but such was not the case eighty or so years our senior. And I have NO love for fantatic freedom fighters who's objective is "accept everything", it is because of them that I consider "tolerance" a dirty word.
Our morals have been on the decline, but it was good morals that founded our nation, and our general adherence to them for so long kept us great.
Its because we're constantly desensitizing ourselves that so much of populace has been growing wicked. And guess what desensitizes? A constant barrage of something... Oh! Like the need to inject foul language and sex into anything and everything!
By the way... I find it curious that you completely dodged the original question in my reply.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 15, 2003, 11:00:36 PM
although.....for me......if i saw a bus stop ad of Holly Valance blowing me a kiss whilst holding a pepsi in her other hand (there is such an ad here), that doesn't make me all of a sudden say 'Oh, i wanna buy a pepsi now!'.....i'd steal the ad and put it in my room for....further use.....
Hahaha.
Anyway......back to the topic we go!
Post by: The Omen on October 16, 2003, 04:25:23 AM
Anyway, i'm outta here, because beliefs are beliefs and changing anyones belief is virtually impossible...but it was fun while it lasted
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 16, 2003, 05:18:55 AM
But there was one a while back that tried to make Pepsi cooler ad hipper than Coke, and yes, it was actually Coke they were using:
Twins are sitting on their porch. One is drinking Coke, the other, Pepsi.
Coke Twin dreams about his plans for the future, and has this glorious image of him as a champion test crickter being showered in praise. A smile is on his face.
Pepsi Twin dreams about HIS plans for the future. Out of his office he steps, and he calls out 'Next!'. He's wearing a doctor's garb, clipboard in hand. IN steps a hot chick in nothin but a bikini. The camera pulls back, and it's revealed that he is a guy who does bikini waxing........the whole office is filled with hot chicks in nothin but bikinis.
Pepsi Twin smiles. Coke Twin looks and his Coke, seriously reconsidering.
The point the ad was trying to convey? Pepsi is cooler. Did it work? Dunno. But it was funny - the first time i saw it.
I just realised that there are more of those new pepsi ads at bus stops. There's the one with Holly blowing a kiss at me (yes me
), and there's one of Chloe Maxwell *droooool* she's the wobble-board chick from the Jeans West ads.Hahahaha.
And I think that after this post, one of the mods are gonna say:
"right, this thread has passed it's time. move on folks, nothing more to see here. it's starting to get off topic."
*LOCKED*
Don't be angry. Blame me. Me........no wait......him. HIM!
*runs*
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 16, 2003, 08:39:48 AM
I will admit that I can be fairly profane at times. I'm not trying to act like I don't use profanity. But I don't swear in front my elders, children or people who I know are going to be horrified and offended.
I'm sorry if I've missed some of your points but I've just read about 4 pages of posts and it's all jumbled in my head who said what.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 16, 2003, 12:03:09 PM
But mainly, I don't see the problem with hurting people. They can just get over it
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 16, 2003, 01:22:53 PM
And I'm not saying you should swear all the time or in front of all people, or call people whatever you want, as in Hostile's example- that's a very selfish way to think about it, Like I said, *I* don't find words offensive, and I know the words themselves aren't offensive, but I'm mindful of the fact that some people do find them offensive, and I respect their choice and hence won't swear around or to them
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 16, 2003, 02:30:09 PM
My point still stands about profanity. The 'profane' words are a few words that were set aside many many many years ago to represent words that the average person was supposed to be afraid to use. Since that time, the use of those words, and most words in general, have gained many different distinctions, and because of that you can't just say, this is what it means, look it up. Just think of the word kill. At one time this could pretty easily be classified as a as a verb, but since that time, it has taken many different versions, slang or not, that make its meaning more than skewed. What I am getting at is that societ HAS and will continue to change, no matter how many people say it won't and scream lalalalala as it continues. At this time, the FCC has decided that people are generally accepting of the use of the f word if it is in a proper context, and generally I have to agree with them. The analogy extends to many good movies where nudity or violence is used as a tool to reach deap human emotions. Lets look at Saving Private Ryan as an example. In Saving Private Ryan countless people are basically annihilated, and the camera does not stop at any time to make it look like anything else. ABC played the entire movie without any edits shown, because they felt that it was more important to keep the film in tact, then to play to the idea that certain things are always bad. The same thing happened on NBC, except with Shindler's List. My point is this, there is a context where the F word has a place, and the FCC has nodded their head to the major stations that they have the right to make that decision for themselves, the FCC does not need to baby sit them every moment on that word.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 16, 2003, 04:01:57 PM
I agree with what you had to say, though.
Post by: Marcus Arillius on October 16, 2003, 04:12:49 PM
I never could understand why words are taboo though. We humans are so odd. Censorship... meh.
Regardless of what you may think about censorship, we do have certain rules in this forum which you agree to abide by when you post here. One of them says that you may not use defamatory language against other people. - Jonny
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 16, 2003, 07:17:58 PM
Funny how some words still have their same sort of meaning after all these centuries.
Anyway....
Words are words, Mouse, I know, as you put it, and it's true. If we just say a word we don't know, the meaning has no affect on us. So we are taught the meaning. A dog is a furry creature on four legs, drools a lot and barks, etc. This is the basics of semiotics, where there is the 'Signifier' and the 'Signified'. Signifier being the word, and the Signified being the meaning/image we associate with the word.
The signifier will always be the same (a word can't exactly change), but the signified (the meaning/image we use to associate it with) can change - much like how an earlier exampled was used (by Perm, I believe), for Shampoo in stead of f**k. By that example, we can now use shampoo in stead of f**k: "Shampoo your mum!", "Oh, SHAMPOO!". We would know that you are using another word to say f**k, but other poeple would think you really are trying to have a bath with the other guy's mum, or you forgot to buy some shampoo - like how 'frick', 'fark', 'shite' etc is what we use instead of the actual word.
Now, I'm going to go out on a limb here, since I never really paid attention in the classes at uni
.Now Mouse, you are saying that words are JUST words. They aren't. All words have a meaning. Or else they are of no use. F**k has a meaning, s**t has a meaning, c**t has a meaning. It is the same meaning, depite the tone/instance you are using it. People WILL be offended by it one way or another. We learn (by punishment from our parents, in school, etc), we are NOT TAUGHT that profanity is bad (however much fun it would be - see the South Park Movie
).And just let me finish by saying that however you use swear words is up to you. I can't punish you for it. I'm nowhere near you guys (except for Mario, Infernal and Joey - so watch out!
). I'm saying that while we all swear from time to time, the coolest thing to do is know when not to do it, not use it all the time cause it's cool. Sure it may make you sound like a badass (which I'm sure some of you wanna be like), but hell, just take it easy.Ok?
I totally agree with you too, manunited. I guess I'm just saying this because too many little kids are swearing, and won't know when it is appropriate to us them.
The thing with us is that we always disagree with what younger generations do. I guess all we can do is sit back and complain our asses off
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 16, 2003, 07:31:26 PM
As for younger generations, 50 years ago people our age would have been severely punished for saying damn- social taboos are gradually lifted, and this is just another instance.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 16, 2003, 07:44:15 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 16, 2003, 07:52:07 PM
Mouse-clicker-you're putting the cart before the horse. We are trained to believe it because it is so. People use those words in a derogatory manner. The fact that they're used in that way is why kids are trained to feel that way, not vice-versa. You're putting the reaction before the action.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 16, 2003, 07:57:12 PM
nolimit: I have addressed that, and I hear swearing public constantly, not only in school, where you have to ignore it if you wish to keep your sanity, but really in any public place. Frankly, I'm quite surprised you do think it's not considered acceptable in public.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 16, 2003, 07:58:22 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 16, 2003, 08:08:40 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 16, 2003, 08:37:51 PM
I never said that. And neither is anyone else here.
It's just the way such freedom will be used - once that freedom is given.
When people have the freedom to say what they want on public TV, witty dialogue in shows will be replaced by huge amounts of profanity. Likewise, a scene that is meant to be sensual and erotic will be replaced by full on porn and nudity. It's just not the right thing to do. If we are to simply accept that shows are going to have heaps of this, and not watch it, there will be nothing to watch. Everything will basically be crap.
DO i sound to some of you pro-profanitist (
) like I'm some goody two-shoes Catholic who believes that you will all go to hell? Well, yes and no. I'm Catholic, yes, but i really don't give a damn about it.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 16, 2003, 08:49:12 PM
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 17, 2003, 02:00:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
No one's really answered my question- why can't you guys who don't want swearing on TV simply don't watch shows that have a lot in it? No one's forcing you to, and no one's expecting you to agree with it, either, just to accept it.
I actually addressed this in my original post on page 1 or 2. I watch whatever I want to and don't worry about profanity. My problem is that I have kids that are 2 and 8. There is very little they can see on primetime tv. There used to be choices as far as programming went. Now, I can't think of more than one or two shows that don't have profanity or sexual content. It seems like if you find a show where there isn't swearing then the trade off is sex.
Also, on the note that we should just accept it: We are talking about tv primarily in the US. In this country we are allowed to complain and try to change things if we don't like the way it's working. We absolutely don't have to sit back and accept it. No, we don't "have" to watch shows with profanity but there should at least be choices.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 17, 2003, 05:21:46 AM
Post by: The Omen on October 17, 2003, 06:43:46 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 17, 2003, 01:20:01 PM
What is really getting on my nerves is the whole nudity thing though. I mean honestly, how many basic cable channels do you know of that show nudity? If so what time does it come on? Now take that one step further. The big networks receive massive contracts for advertising and if their ratings drop you can be sure that they will want to find out what the hell is going on. If the networks see that shows with the F word become less popular, guess what, they will start cutting them out of the script.
Mouse's statement is pretty much true, if you don't buy they won't sell.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 17, 2003, 02:34:46 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 17, 2003, 02:58:48 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 17, 2003, 03:00:17 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 17, 2003, 03:25:17 PM
Quote
Which is pretty sad now, isn't it?
absolutely. This isn't evolving, its called deterioration.
Manunited4eva22-there is more nudity now then there was 20 years ago definately. I've seen it on NYPD blue, the U.S.A. NETWORK, and on 'news' shows such as 48 hours.
Quote
None, but everything is relitive. If f*ck becomes quite a common word like damn is, then f*ck will just be the next generation's 'damn'.
I happen to think f*** is more common right now. And it still is a much more powerful word than damn, because it means something a lot different than damn. If you're fine with that, good for you.
Quote
. The big networks receive massive contracts for advertising and if their ratings drop you can be sure that they will want to find out what the hell is going on. If the networks see that shows with the F word become less popular, guess what, they will start cutting them out of the script.
We know its all about rating, but that doesn't make it right. And i can tell you if a show performs badly, they aren't going to cut the language out. They will just think its the show that stinks. Once you start this, you dont go back and say You know what? we made a mistake. No more cursing on TV Once it happens its for good.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 17, 2003, 03:47:55 PM
Post by: Mario on October 17, 2003, 03:52:15 PM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on October 17, 2003, 03:56:52 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 17, 2003, 04:08:29 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 17, 2003, 04:58:05 PM
Quote
I happen to think f*** is more common right now.
Perhaps this is different for different areas of English speaking, but this is certainly not the case for my area.
Quote
And it still is a much more powerful word than damn, because it means something a lot different than damn. If you're fine with that, good for you.
Words do eventually lose/change their meaning. Most of the time I hear the 'F word', it is used as an exclamation, not it's original meaning. Once again though, this could just be because of localization of language. The word 'bastard', for example, has had it's original meaning abolished, because it was rarely used as it should have been, and that lead to misunderstandings when it was. Maybe the 'f word' will end up to be the same, maybe it won't.
Neither of us can rightfully claim to be a batter judge than the other on this, so I guess we'll just have to see how this pans out. If the shows that use the 'f word' lose too many ratings because it offends too many people, then the ruling will have no effect anyway, if the shows that use the 'f word' have no change in ratings, then f*** really has lost it's meaning.
Post by: The Omen on October 17, 2003, 06:34:40 PM
Quote
I would like to see swear words and nudity as a common thing in society.
They are a common thing in society. Where are we to turn to get our kids away from it if it becomes status quo? Its not just the word f***, its the route that we're taking, and thats just the beginning, i can assure you.
Post by: Mario on October 17, 2003, 09:03:56 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 17, 2003, 09:13:03 PM
Post by: Mario on October 17, 2003, 09:14:48 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 18, 2003, 06:42:03 AM
Quote
But as soon as words become common in usage, they lose their offencive edge. There are other words to describe what most current swear words do, and randomly yelling those at someone probobly isn't going to offend them. This is not the beginning, this has been happening for a long time. 100 years ago, skirts that didn't cover the whole of a woman's legs were considered to be unacceptable, especialy for older people. 100 years ago, words that are common usage today were highly offensive. I see no evidence to suggest that this is any different.
But covering legs or uncovering legs hurts or offends no one. It was a stupid mans idea to have more control over women. F*** IS AS COMMON AS A WORD AS YOU'LL FIND. The word F*** has been around for over 100 years here, and it still has a negative meaning. In theory, if we all would just say we're going to not worry about words, because thats all they are, i'd be fine with that. It would save me, and a lot of people, all kinds of headaches, but until that day comes, i think its inappropriate for it to be on TV. Thats the crux of my argument-the TV part.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 18, 2003, 08:20:38 AM
Post by: The Omen on October 18, 2003, 10:09:54 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 18, 2003, 11:04:00 AM
If you don't want your kids to watch it, there are still v-chips..
Post by: The Omen on October 18, 2003, 11:33:32 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 18, 2003, 05:01:34 PM
Blame society, both rules are arbitrary whether you say one is or not.
Post by: cubefreak123 on October 18, 2003, 05:05:24 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 18, 2003, 05:33:45 PM
Post by: cubefreak123 on October 18, 2003, 05:50:10 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 18, 2003, 06:06:38 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 18, 2003, 06:13:32 PM
Indeed.
*nods head*
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 18, 2003, 07:13:55 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 18, 2003, 08:59:55 PM
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 19, 2003, 06:47:24 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 19, 2003, 01:28:37 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 19, 2003, 01:43:30 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 19, 2003, 04:59:10 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 19, 2003, 06:47:23 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 19, 2003, 06:52:42 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 19, 2003, 06:54:57 PM
The only reason Fox even EXISTS is because of Matt Groening, and then they go and treat him like a sack of crap. I wish Matt would go to a new network.
Post by: ThePerm on October 19, 2003, 10:09:43 PM
Post by: cubefreak123 on October 20, 2003, 02:45:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
The people who run Fox need to have their throats slit open from ear to ear.
I second that!
Post by: thecubedcanuck on October 20, 2003, 05:59:19 AM
Times have changed, for the better or worse, that can be debated, but the fact remains times have changed.
Post by: The Omen on October 20, 2003, 07:21:16 AM
Quote
Thinking that by limiting what is said and done on TV will make the world a better place is very niave.
Times have changed, for the better or worse, that can be debated, but the fact remains times have changed.
Agreed. Times have changed, and while limiting TV might not make the world a better place, i think we can look through history and see it can make the world a worse place. Even if this is inevitable, i can disagree with it.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 20, 2003, 03:57:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
sounds like nolimit has been brainwashed
well to a certain extent everyone is brainwashed...certain people are "brainwashed" to think that bad words arent bad. others are "brainwashed" to be nice and respect others. still more are brainwashed to kill infedels in the name of ala....everyone thinks everyone else is brainwashed....kind of funny in a way. its also funny that you can be offended by the word heathen, but you say that i cant be offended by the "f" word. typical, in a liberals logic, so i am not suprised. and i dont pay for priemium cable and south park just comes to mind as a show that has cussing on it. now i know for the most part cable is decent, and the "bad" shows only come on later at night. however, all the things they put on the "bad shows" are getting worse and worse, and the time they are allowed to show them keeps moving to an earlier time. the networks are crap in my opinion. this has nothing to do with some dumb alligence to the networks. its about the death of morals. there is simply no hope for this country and i truely do understand why islam declared jihad against america. i didnt used to, but i do now. not that i say i agree, but its because of the lack of morals and our consumerism attitudes. i wont have kids because this place is a trash hole now, raising a kid to have any morals 10 years from now in itself will be considered immoral. i truely believe that we will end up having a situation like the middle east sometime in the future....we will have a bunch of crazy christians (no flamming, i am christian, but i reserve the right to believe that some are crazy) take over because america will be such a reck, and then we will see a true loss of rights. we will be back in the middle ages and persecution will run rampid....but thats just a conspiracy theory...this is just one event that will help lead to such a time, and i think (personally) that it is a big mistake.
also for those that say we shouldnt be offended by words.....where do you draw the line??? some people are offended when people push them.....should EVERYONE be FORCED to become like them??? and if we cant be offended by being pushed, maybe we shouldnt be offended by being punched....recent studies suggest that emotional pain and physical pain are very similar when it comes to the way the brain responds to them.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s963560.htm
its against the law to verbally abuse people....and all though all this may be off topic, but the argument that everyone is using for this descion by the fcc is that its just words...words can have a deep impact on our lives and by saying they are just words is just not a good argument for this...at least say times have changed or something, but obviously that isnt perfect either because there are groups that oppose this. again when it comes down to it, its just the fact that its PUBLIC and CUSSING....i just dont like it.(PERSONALLY)
Post by: ThePerm on October 20, 2003, 04:17:50 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 20, 2003, 04:23:14 PM
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Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
Thinking that by limiting what is said and done on TV will make the world a better place is very niave.
Times have changed, for the better or worse, that can be debated, but the fact remains times have changed.
Ironic how you're thinking that not limiting it will make it any better
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 20, 2003, 04:26:53 PM
What is Liberal?
Over here in Australia, it's a national political party.
Post by: ThePerm on October 20, 2003, 04:46:24 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 20, 2003, 04:50:00 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 20, 2003, 05:24:45 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 20, 2003, 05:34:30 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 20, 2003, 05:38:36 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 20, 2003, 06:16:27 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 20, 2003, 06:39:54 PM
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They're not going to throw in swearing simply because they can.
I disagree. I think they will throw it in when it doesn't need to be. But anyway, the world has been going down the toilet for the last 50 years, so i guess i cant bitch anymore.
I also have to say movies, IMO, are on an upswing. Theres just more crap to tread through to find them. There are many thousands more movies per year released than in the 'golden age' of cinema.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 21, 2003, 08:21:48 AM
edit.....honestly, i am not trying to be stupid and prove a point, but can anyone name a really good movie they have seen in the past year....NOT an ENTERTAINING movie, but a truley very good movie that was also entertaining...not great, just very good....thank you....i can think of tons of disapointments, but i cant really think of a good recent movie....
Post by: The Omen on October 21, 2003, 08:45:37 AM
Same thing with TV, which is why all this crap is going to bring more 'shock' shows than real, well written shows. I think there will be just as many good network shows, but a lot more that are uninspired curse fests, appealing to the lowest common denominator. Can you imagine Jerry Springer(bad enough as is) , now with all the cursing allowed?
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 21, 2003, 11:44:05 AM
There isn't a law (in America anyway) that says 'if you are mean, you get to go sit in time out'.
As for the arguement about how society is going to hell, and how things have become so much worse, I'm sure your grandparents said that about elvis shaking his hips.
Do you take offense to the 'raunchous' moves of Elvis, back in the day? This arguement has been played out may a time. We all know where it is going.
Post by: ThePerm on October 21, 2003, 12:02:54 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 21, 2003, 12:37:58 PM
And who said movies should be moving or provocative? I want to be a movie director someday, but making touching or "great" movies is not my priority. Well, maybe great. But you can't help but get great with me.
I agree, mostly, with the cussing thing, but I disagree about the movies decreasing in quality. There are just a lot more movies being made, so the good ones are less conspicuous.
Post by: nolimit19 on October 21, 2003, 06:52:35 PM
edit: i obviously realize that its an art form and certain people like certain things, but there are just certain things that make a movie great. just like there are certain things that seperate i guy like leonardo da vinci and my 3rd grade painting of my house.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 21, 2003, 06:56:35 PM
).
Post by: ThePerm on October 21, 2003, 07:23:24 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 21, 2003, 07:24:51 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 21, 2003, 08:20:33 PM
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As for the arguement about how society is going to hell, and how things have become so much worse, I'm sure your grandparents said that about elvis shaking his hips.
Do you take offense to the 'raunchous' moves of Elvis, back in the day? This arguement has been played out may a time. We all know where it is going.
Its extremely obvious you wont look at facts. Is America better off now or 30 years ago? Not even close.
Elvis shaking his hips and allowing cursing on TV is not even close to be comparable. Elvis did dance provocatively , but allowing a certain dance on TV wont degrade a society. Also, a lot of that was racial, because the old timers didnt like a white man dancing like that.
Allowing something thats known to be harmful in its intent, such as f***, will dull our senses even more than they are already. Whether you think curse words hold merit or not, the truth of the matter is, until people stop using the word in a negative light, it will remain there, and if it remains there, then it shouldn't be on network TV. What does it ad exactly?
And yes, we all do know where its going-downhill.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 22, 2003, 03:34:02 AM
Post by: The Omen on October 22, 2003, 06:56:13 AM
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How can a word degrade society? Elvis shaking his hips had the same implications as the word f***, I don't see ANY difference, other than the fact that one is socially acceptable and the other isn't.
Because the word is often used in a degrading manner. A dance wasn't used in that manner, that was a bunch of old white people getting upset that a white man was dancing like a black man and getting their daughters in a huff. Thats the difference. It is my opinion, of course. But i know myself, and i'm not easily insulted, so dancing would have no effect whatsoever. Again, i have no problems cursing, or being cursed at, i just don't see the relevence of having it added to network TV when children are watching it. Pay channels, such as HBO are fine. Not on FOX and UPN, who'll no doubt be the first to take advantage.
We're getting to philosophical on this subject. To me it breaks down to why add curses in, what does it accomplish? I just don't see F*** being needed. I havent heard anymore about this, are there guidelines to when and how to use the word?
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As for your "facts" , there's none to speak of, so of course many of us aren't "looking" at them.
The only fact i'm speaking of is America is worse now than 30 years ago. Maybe you need to start "looking" if you dont see that.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 22, 2003, 11:37:57 AM
I agree that cursing is not necessary- on the contrary, it's most often unnecessary. I think if you will read most of my posts you will find that out about myself. HOWEVER, I'm never one to restrict the use of a word- that's censorship, and petty censorship at that. It's not even justified- there's FAR more degrading things on network television than the word f***- why haven't you gone up in arms about them?
Post by: The Omen on October 22, 2003, 12:06:09 PM
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It's not even justified- there's FAR more degrading things on network television than the word f***- why haven't you gone up in arms about them?
Make a thread about them, and i will
Frankly, i could go on all day about a number of issues, but this is the one that was brought up.Quote
How old were you thirty years ago, Omen? Can you even remember back that far? Regardless of whether you do or not, opinions on our country's state 30 years ago is subjective- it's not a "fact" at all.
Do we really need to 'be there' to know ? I guess history is useless as well because all of us werent around? The Louisiana purchase is a sham?
There are a lot of things that are better, but overall there is statistical proof that we have degraded as a nation-alarmingly so. Violent crimes involving children have been on a ferocious upswing for the last 30 years, for sure. How many kids were toting guns into schools 1975? Go look it up, you'll be surprised. Single parent families are now almost 5 times more likely, divorce is over 50%. Violent crimes overall are incredibly more frequent. We have militias all over the place, stockpiling weapons. Healthcare is virtually non-existant. We cant have a team win a championship, a decidedly joyous occasion, in a major city, because it'll start riots. Theres plenty more to go, and i suggest you tell me what has drastically improved, and were not talking technology, or anything like that. People issues. Do i think its because of curses? No, but i think this is part of an overall bigger problem that gets worse with every generation of kids, The kids in the generation before me were not as bad as i was. The kids after my generation are worse, and every generation raised with less and less boundaries, gets worse and worse. So do we just say, ahh, the hell with it , everything has to change, and let everything continue to slope downwards?
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 22, 2003, 12:06:48 PM
I found that funny
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 22, 2003, 12:45:21 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 22, 2003, 01:59:59 PM
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 22, 2003, 02:12:16 PM
Life was good and language was clean. Everyone was happy. No one had the slightest idea that disco would soon come.
Post by: The Omen on October 22, 2003, 04:40:50 PM
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And on top of THAT, history books, especially in America, leave a good deal out. More Native Americans were killed in America than Jews during World War II, yet you'll find no mention of these in the general American curriculum.
I know all about the school history books , and thankfully i'm old enough to completely wash out everything i learned ,but there are REAL history books available at any book store.
I dont base my life on statistics, and i have said from the beginning this is my opinion, but crime , definately violent crime, is dramatically up. That is documented fact. I'm not making it up. About the native americans, can i believe you if you werent there? I can because its documented, and i expect the same from you. We can say we each make points, and agree to disagree. I really cant keep arguing, because are either of us going to change our minds? So nice debating with you. I lay my sword down.
I'm just curious where you live, i'm pretty sure its the U.S., but i forget.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 22, 2003, 05:34:08 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 22, 2003, 06:25:45 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 22, 2003, 07:47:19 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 22, 2003, 07:52:41 PM
So if i said sfa was good but not entertaining in your meaning of the word i would be correct right?
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 22, 2003, 08:10:54 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 22, 2003, 08:15:49 PM
lowering of standards --->stagnent growth----->loss of quality---->stupid consumers----->fall of humanity
well maybe i will revise that later, but it looks right.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 22, 2003, 08:26:08 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 22, 2003, 08:33:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
nolimit: I'd trust the people the movies were made for above the art critic-like snobs who don't want to like anything the "common folk" do.
well i certainly wouldnt...when i hear hoards of people saying spider man was awesome.........when i hear people say they cant wair for the 3rd installment fast and hte furious....when i hear people say dare devil was anything less than horendous....when i hear people say a beautiful mind was a pointless movie....when i hear people say the 2nd matrix was better then the first......i simply cant trust what people say...would you trust the "peoples" taste in art....no, most people dont know what makes art good....and thats fine, but they arent knoledgable on the subject and shouldnt be taken too seriously. most people wouldnt notice bad acting if it punched them in the eye. and the fact that movies like triple x can be box office successes does not help me think any better of the average person with their taste in movies....the snobs in the movie industry at least know what is good....how can you know something is good if you dont even know what is supposed to make it good? i actually think that lotr are some of the better movies made in the past couple years, but like i said my judgement is clouded because i thought it got too far away from the book...so i am extremely bias when it comes to those movies. but the point....unless people have at least a decent knowledge on the subject, their opinions should probably be ignored.
edit: the only thing that you said that was right was that i wrote it out of sarcasm....i actually was semi sarcastic when i put that thread title. but the fact still remains that words hurt people...you are basiclaly saying that words should NOT have the power to hurt people....that is obviously wrong....they do...they always have ... and they always will have the power to offend people. also this is a landmark descion. and lastly this will affect everyones life in the next 30 years....that was the most incorrect thing anyone wrote in the existance of this thread...tv literally controls a lot of what we think...its a huge influence on our culture....and for better or for worse...in 30 years...this will make a difference in out culture. also it may not lower your standards, but it lowers the standards of any english speaking human being that finds the word offensive....and there are a few who do.
Post by: ThePerm on October 22, 2003, 10:04:59 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 23, 2003, 04:44:09 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 24, 2003, 10:42:29 PM
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From The Onion A.V. Club
O: A few of the seven words are actually on TV now, where you've got "sh**" on Chicago Hope. How do you feel about that?
GC: Well, it's always been kind of a false arrangement anyway. When I was a little boy, I was taught to look up to policemen, look up to military personnel, and look up to sports figures. We all know how they speak, so apparently the message was, "These people have not been corrupted morally; therefore, I can derive from that that dirty language didn't corrupt them morally." There's no foundation for this language being harmful in any way; it's just rude to some people, less rude to others. So it's one of those fake barriers that's rooted in a fake morality about sex, the body parts that produce sexual experience—and, as it happens, bathroom experience—and an ultimate fear of the human body and sexuality. And therefore, I don't honor those arbitrary demarcations, and that's that. [Laughs.]
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 25, 2003, 04:22:56 AM
You know WHY celebs and famous people (well, the really trashy ones, anyway - it's up to you to decide who those trashy ones are) can cuss? cause they can get away with it! And you know why they believe that all this is a fake barrier? Cause THEY are the ones that 'control' the barrier by influencing other poeple on hpow to act and behave!
Just by posting that quote you have proved that to be true!
YOU are influenced by that quote, using it yourself to say that swearing is ok.
EVERYONE is influenced! It's a question of WHO is influencing you that is MY point!
I know that they don't do it on purpose, though. They only behave like that cause they have money to burn, and when some of them get famous, their ego gets inflated to massive proportions. I like to laugh my ass off when celebs get arrested or humiliated because of something they did wrong that they thought was right (not Natalie POrtman or Kiera Knightley of course, cause I would come to their rescue!
) cause it means that when they go out and do what they want to do cause feel like they are the law, they get pulled right back down and told who their daddy is.Unless you have anything else to add, i am done here.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 25, 2003, 07:44:44 AM
As for not trusting people's opinions, well, some people obviously don't trust yours, so don't worry about other opinions unless you intend to understand them, not correct them.
As for the world being gooey in the 70's, I guess you missed Vietnam. You know the war where millions of americans were shipped off to a small little part of Asia? Has the world ever been gooey? You would be kidding yourself to think so, the things we value and hold so high are often enough things far different from what we think them to be.
Did people curse a whole lot in WW2, obviously.
Did people curse a whole lot in the 50's, leave it to beaver or not, yes.
In the 60's did people curse? Do I really have to answer that one?
I mean the idea that a lot of the 'horrendous' things like cursing or nudity are going to fall away is just insane. You talk about how much worse tv and movies have got, look at james bond. In 'the spy who loved me' there is more than a little nudity. In fact there are several minuts of nudity. Lets review now, Titanic almost got an R rating for 8 seconds of nudity, the spy who loved me received a pg rating. hmmmmm
Post by: The Omen on October 25, 2003, 07:54:22 AM
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Did people curse a whole lot in WW2, obviously.
Did people curse a whole lot in the 50's, leave it to beaver or not, yes.
In the 60's did people curse? Do I really have to answer that one?
Was cursing on TV in the 40's. No, obviously.
Was cursing on TV in the 50's, no
How about the 60's,? Do i even have to answer that one?
This thread is about tv. Almost all of us have admitted that cursing is a part of society.
About Veitnam. Great observation. Unfortunately, here in the U.S. , it was still a safer place during that time than it is now. People are out of control. Kids have to be in the house by nightfall on Halloween! We just had a teacher get mugged so this dufus kid could buy lunch. Just curious, you think its a safer world now? People=sh!t (hows that for censorship?)
By the way, we're going to take advice from a man who is unfunny UNLESS he curses? Wow, i am so surprised he took that stance.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 08:25:17 AM
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Was cursing on TV in the 40's. No, obviously.
Was cursing on TV in the 50's, no
How about the 60's,? Do i even have to answer that one?
This thread is about tv. Almost all of us have admitted that cursing is a part of society.
That's our whole point, though- television would be an unrealistic portrayal of society if it didn't have swearing. And what manunited was trying to get at was the very time periods you say our country was not corrupted still had swearing, just not on tv, so obviously swearing doesn't morally corrupt you. Why, then, should it not be allowed on tv?
Post by: The Omen on October 25, 2003, 09:25:14 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 25, 2003, 01:41:03 PM
Were you there in the 50's, 60's 40's etc? If not, prove people cursed less. The 60's is known for profanity slurred slogans, how is that a 'better time.'
Post by: The Omen on October 25, 2003, 02:29:47 PM
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Were you there in the 50's, 60's 40's etc? If not, prove people cursed less. The 60's is known for profanity slurred slogans, how is that a 'better time.'
Doesn't that relegate your post to nothing status then? Because you certainly werent there in WW2, right?
First of all, children most definately cursed less . I dont have to be there to know that its been a downward slope since the 60's. I do have parents, grandparents and so on. nobody said it was perfect, but to act like everything is the same now is just asinine. I know you guys dont believe in the crime statistics i spouted off, but they dont lie. Even 20 years ago we could go out and trick or treat until 11 or 12, as long as we were in the vicinity. You cant do that now, at least not here. Also, were there metal detectors in schools in the 60's and 70's? They're almost mandatory now. Tell me what is better now than 30 years ago, in terms of 'people issues'?
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 02:33:01 PM
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 25, 2003, 02:45:40 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 25, 2003, 02:46:37 PM
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Right, kids cursed less back then because now we're starting to realise that they're just words and aren't going to corrupt anyone.
Yeah, because kids often think so deliberately before speaking.
I have said the curses alone are not going to corrupt anyone. Put it in tandem with the rest of the garbage, and it will. Mouse-clicker, you're 15, right? You still dont curse all the time, because you know sometimes its inappropriate. And why is it inappropriate? Because of what the words mean> And if the words are used in a derogatory manner worldwide, than i am sorry to tell you, those words have meanings. You cant change that. Unless you massacre everyone under 10, and start over with these new rules.
And still, nobody has told me , what is better now?
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 03:00:28 PM
And don't put words into my mouth, Omen- I don't swear all the time because I think it's a sign of being uncreative and unintelligent. I pride myself on having an extensive vocabulary and I don't put that vocabulary to much use if I swear all the time. I also won't swear if the person I'm talking to would be offended by it- I may disagree with them but I'm mindful of their wishes.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 25, 2003, 06:21:14 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 06:43:38 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 25, 2003, 06:53:45 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 06:55:39 PM
I've been opinionated and unreasonable since the beginning, but the debate's no fun otherwise. I hope you guys aren't taking any of this personally. And you AREN'T saying George Carlin isn't one of the hardest working men in the business, are you?
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 25, 2003, 06:57:59 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 07:00:48 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 25, 2003, 07:04:34 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 07:08:43 PM
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 25, 2003, 07:15:52 PM
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
George Carlin is known far and wide as being, most likely, the hardest working man in show business.
Mouse, you are not hearing me. I did not say that George Carlin is not a hardworking man. I am simply saying the above statement is your opinion. I think it is a bit much to say the part about "known far and wide". Good lord, it was just a comment on what I saw as an exaggeration. No need to get so peeved about it.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 07:22:36 PM
I'm sorry about the wording of my original post there, but I DO believe that one cannot really debate whether or not George Carlin is one of the hardest working men in the business. I realize now that's not what you were saying, but it's what I was saying. Again, I'm not mad at all, although I might appear that way through my writing.
Post by: ThePerm on October 25, 2003, 07:30:49 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 07:33:17 PM
Debating how debatable it is that George Carlin works hard will get us nowhere.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 25, 2003, 07:33:55 PM
Look at that. A debate that didn't just ubruptly end out of frustration and anger. Yay! Edit: Mouse, this post was referring to the post before the one above. Don't start arguing again or this will be meaningless.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 25, 2003, 07:40:52 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 25, 2003, 10:19:39 PM
If he is hard-working, then good for him!
I just REALLY hate people who become famous cause they swam in poo'd sewerage, swore a million times and/or zapped their nipples with muscle-stimulators (think Jackass, Tom Green, and everyone like that).
Do you know what? We went to a themed restaurant for my friend's 18th earlier this year, and there was a pair of comedian/musician/singer brothers, who used lots of swearing and sexual references for humour and soforth. You know why that was ok? Cause it was adults only. It was fun and hilarious.
IF this was shown in the shopping center down the road for school holidays entertainment, that would have been wrong. If it was shown on TV as part of the morning kids shows, that would have been wrong also.
Do you agree with me on that?
This is exactly the same with things like skit shows (like Skithouse, Fast Forward, Full Frontal and Comedy Inc over here and SNL over there), cause they have swearing and sexual stuff in them too. For free-to-air TV, shows like this are in 8:30pm slots, or later, like at 9:30pm. Sure, kids nowadays stay up later, but the chances of them seeing the show are reduced. It's not THAT bad for them to see it, but you get the drift? Shows with swearing or sex, etc are usually put off till later in the evening. Kids movies, like Mousehunt yesterday, are put on at like 6pm-7:30pm so that kids can watch it and go to sleep afterward, and all the adult shows put on later.
I've also seen shows like Jerry Springer put on at like 1pm over here, but that's cause kids are at school at those times.
I think our free-to-air TV regulations are just a bit more stricter over here than over there in the US, cause over here, we only really have five channels: the ABC, SBS, Channel 7, 10, and 9. You guys have like milllions of channels. And they're all a jumble of letters! I'm not dissing you, i'm just making an observation, is all.
The channels are called different things in regional areas of Australia, for example, Channel 7 is called Prime, 10 is called Capital and 9 is called WIN. And stricter regulations are good, cause it creates less controversy (like the start of this arguement - that is ok or not to have swearing on regular occasions on TV), and it harms less people.
Parents try to raise up their kids with a good sense of morals.
It's not black and white. I mean, some of you would think that it's either ok to swear, and that swearing doesn't affect people AT ALL. Some of you would think that swearing is the devil (heheheh, Bobby Bouche's mum in The Waterboy) and that people like that are little angels who cover their ears when they hear f**k.
Is it like that?
No.
I mean, alright, it's OK to swear, but surely you have to know when it's ok NOT to swear right?
Do you believe that children are heavily influenced by what they see on TV? I do. Do you think that if their favourite characters started to swear, then they would start to swear? I do. I mean, if you were raising a kid, then all of a sudden they just came up to you and started swearing, would you smile, stand there, put your hands on your hips and go 'awwwww, look at that! he learned how to say f**k!' Sure, they don't know what it means, and it is kinda cute and funny, but i would tell them a bit seriously not to say that anymore, and they wouldn';t be allowed to watch that show anymore. The same would happen in most households, the show would lose ratings, go off the air, and the broadcasters would be back in the meeting room wondering what went wrong.
It's just that bad things start from somewhere. In the case of this whole darn debate, it's the FCC rule that swearing is ok. Once the green light has shone, everyone will think it's ok.
Do you not realise that?
It is the downfall of our society. Not apocalypse sorta thing, but in terms of morals.
Once one thing is allowed, people will try all sorts of things to get away with, as long as it is still mere inches behind the line of acceptance.
Sex sells. That has been proven, and we have seen countless times nude chicks (not full-on stuff), but a bit of skin in the 'right' places, and while many call it exploitation of the female form, it is still within regulations, sort of.
Us Aussies would know the XBox Launch campaign.
DOA3 had two ads. One said 'Die Smiling', and showed the legs of that chinese chick - it's meant to say that when you die in the game, at least you have a 'great view'.
The second ad was of that white haired chick. Her boobs practically pouring out of that silver jumpsuit, and they were the main feature in the ad. The slogan? 'Fake has never looked so real'. It was unappropriately stating the power of the Xbox, whilst at the same time showing off it's 'round-boob processor'.
Whilst I admit I stared at these ads, they are using sex as a means of getting males to buy the XBox - and it looks like it worked.
Well, I knew I was gonna get off track, but what i have said here sorta explains that morals in society are in decline.
Whilst it's said to be inevitable - it's only part of the way we humans would destroy ourselves - at least there are some of us trying to do what we feel is right.
I'm not saying that people's opinions are wrong. Everyone has a right to an opinion. This here is my opinion, and Mouse's stance is his opinion.
It generates healthy debate, and I think it brings out the best in all of us.
Post by: ThePerm on October 25, 2003, 10:57:59 PM
heres a question is it right or wrong to sleep on the floor when your bed is right there? Its neither right nor wrong in our society but you sleep on the bed anyways. Or how bout sleeping reversed...puttign your head at the reverse of the bed and your feet at the back?
Theres a tribe in new gunea that had never seen a white man before...i was watchign this special and this french guy became friends with this tribe. The tribesman had been told by his grandfather that "there is no such thing as a white man". When they eat they hit the side of their head to say its good...you would say its good verbally...they smack the side of their head. Also the women walk around with their tops off...and you don't see the men constanty staring at their tits. And of course no one see's anythign wrogn with walking around naked because their have nver been a reason to walk around with clothes on...the wheather is perfect.
on the other hand it got really cold elsewhere in the world and youd die in areas if you didnt wear your clothes...evntually people got so used to wearing clothes that they felt uncomfortable without them....and that got built into religious doctrine.
to say people have no morals is rediculous. They just have a different set then you. The onyl way to look at anything objectively is to look at everything without bias. Like the wind.......
and we did not get those doa advertisement...they were definitely not that raunchy...and the tribes man in new gunea would have the crap scared out of him if he saw a tv....a mirror scared the crap out of him....what are these ghost people running around? also i think he would have a tough time telling the game from reality...anyways....
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 26, 2003, 02:14:36 AM
No!
I/we are not talking about that.
I am talking about the morals or OUR society. The one where we live in huge concrete buildings and ride in metal monsters called cars. Where we don't hunt for food, but the food is dead when we aquire it. Where we can go for journeys that would other wise take a lifetime in a matter of hours.
Western society.
What those cultures do is up to them.
Much like how in many cultures it is perfectly acceptable to walk around naked, it is of course NOT acceptable in western society.
What you are talking about, Perm, is strying quite a bit from what we are talkin about.
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 26, 2003, 04:25:03 AM
Post by: Marcus Arillius on October 26, 2003, 05:38:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Marcus Arillius
The End of "humanity", eh? My my, that's a very ethnocentric view if I do say so myself. I would say "who cares? It's just a word." However, for the time being it's considered taboo in our culture. Can't change culture in a day. No sir-ee bob.
I never could understand why words are taboo though. We humans are so odd. Censorship... meh.
Regardless of what you may think about censorship, we do have certain rules in this forum which you agree to abide by when you post here. One of them says that you may not use defamatory language against other people. - Jonny
I'm very well aware of that Jonny. That's why I haven't. If you're regarding my use of the word "ethnocentric" I emplore you to look it up. You'll find I was completely factual in my remark.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 26, 2003, 06:29:03 AM
Quote
I have never heard of George Carlin.
o_O I'm sorry, I can't carry on a conversation with this man.
Post by: Termin8Anakin on October 26, 2003, 10:07:07 AM
The fact that I've never heard of ONE person out of the billions on the planet is so hard for you to comprehend?
Have you heard of Dave Hughes? Jimoen? Wil Anderson? Peter Hellier? Carl Barron? Greg Fleet? These guys are all great Aussie comedians.
WHAT??? OMG! You HAVEN'T heard of them????
OMFG!!!!1111YOOO dun knowem im gunna not talk to yas anymorooeee!
I can't believe you are taking that so seriously.
Post by: ThePerm on October 26, 2003, 10:37:50 AM
the idea is our culture only does things because its been a tradition for 1000s of years and has made things culturaly wrong maybe possibly because at one point or another it was neccassary for survival...but now we stick to everything and we should really evaluate our ways of thinking. The way I look at our culture is that were just one of many....and at the same time we may be way ahead of others in technology but that doesnt mean the way we do everything is right or wrong. Personally murder, rape, torture, and thievory are the only things that i see are wrong...and actually i think every culture agrees on those things.
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 26, 2003, 10:45:21 AM
Quote
Personally murder, rape, torture, and thievory are the only things that i see are wrong...and actually i think every culture agrees on those things.
I take it one step further. I don't think that there is such a thing as right and wrong. The rules of the universe state that it's totally irrelevent if people kill eachother.
The thing is that there ARE rules that we as people must follow in order to work together and not end up causing our own extinction. Man is a herd animal, and it's not possible for us to live alone. As a result, thieving, murder, rape, and lying are accepted almost universally as being wrong because the people who do such acts are maladaptive, and result in social harm done to the rest of the herd.
Post by: ThePerm on October 26, 2003, 10:51:05 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 26, 2003, 11:07:51 AM
And I'm not surprised that you don't know who just one comedian is out of many, it's that George Carlin is one of the most influential and revolutionary comedians to date, and really paved the way for modern stand up.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 26, 2003, 11:49:53 AM
I was serious about that. . . mostly
I figure clothes exist merely to make the actual intercourse more exciting and pleasurable. And for coldness. So yeah, I'm gonna go dance.
**goes and dances**
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 26, 2003, 11:51:03 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on October 26, 2003, 11:59:51 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 26, 2003, 12:05:12 PM
And then of course there's leather. . .
Post by: ThePerm on October 26, 2003, 03:36:09 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 26, 2003, 03:41:51 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 26, 2003, 03:49:50 PM
Except for the aforementioned leather accessories.
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 26, 2003, 04:04:11 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 26, 2003, 04:07:39 PM
goodie twoshoes and twisted peopl can't agree on anything....excep we cant agree on anything.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 26, 2003, 04:08:55 PM
This topic is much more interesting than hearing people preach about profanity...
Post by: ThePerm on October 26, 2003, 04:21:46 PM
Post by: Marcus Arillius on October 26, 2003, 04:39:59 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 26, 2003, 04:45:42 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 26, 2003, 06:11:15 PM
Quote
well 30 years ago in america a black man couldn't drink out of a watrer fountain unlessi t was marked "colored". This was because everyone felt it was immoral to treat black americans equally..or interbreed or what not. Do you agree with these morals? Id hope not. The point is not everyone shares the same moral views. In fact the word moral is so lame. Anyone ever taken a sociology class?
Funny, i never knew having an extreme hatred and prejudice against another because of color would ever be considered moral view. Hating anything is immoral, so the whole argument is skewed.
Good quotes , Termin8anakin and Grey Ninja.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on October 26, 2003, 07:07:47 PM
Post by: ThePerm on October 30, 2003, 02:51:15 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 30, 2003, 03:57:42 PM
Quote
It would just be wrong for me to comment so I'm gonna take my drugged up, snot filled head and go to bed. And with that sexy thought, Good Night!
eeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwww.................
*throws up*
Post by: nolimit19 on October 31, 2003, 05:21:03 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 31, 2003, 07:16:07 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on October 31, 2003, 07:42:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nolimit19
all i know is that i read someone say that there is no right and wrong....and to that i am nothing short of appauled. not suprised of course becaues thats what liberal propoganda teaches, but appauled none the less. morals are absolute. liberals like to say there are no absolutes, but that in itself is an absolute. also math is a good example of absolute truth. 1+1 is always 2 and hurting anyone in anyway is always wrong. and yes as someone pointed out people can have incorrect morals. and morals are lame? liberals seem to want to turn humans into nothing more then hairless apes. we are so much more intelligent then to not have any standards. are ability to say no to our insticts and emotions is what seperates us from the animals. and now we want to destroy that? lets go live in the jungle and pick each others butt cracks for flees. who they hell buys into that psychology(and sociology) crap? they dont know anything. they change their mind every years about how the human psyche works. and they all end up killing themselves or on drugs because they are stupid and cant handle the real world.
How can you make such sweeping assumptions such as that? Sooner or later you're going to realise that you can't blame anything you see as negitive to humans as a whole on 'liberals' and that your opinion is NOT absolute. There are many people who have spend many years of solid meditiation, thought or studying and interpreting religous texts each day; or have devoted their lives to studying the human mind, what makes you think you're personal observations on morals or how our minds/scocieteys work are more worthy of note than theirs?
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 31, 2003, 08:04:07 PM
This is just my hypothesis, so I could be way off, but here's the story of Nolimit's life. He is in his early adulthood, maybe his late teens. As a child, his parents were fairly fundamentalist in their religion, and had fairly strong viewpoints on politics. They were probably active in their church, going to church every sunday, etc, , and would frequently call down the people opposite of liberal (I know dick all about politics), in day to day life. Much like people had a problem with "commies" during the cold war. Nolimit may or may not still live at home, but he still has very strong ties with his parents and loves and respects them very much.
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2003, 01:57:37 AM
Point? I imagine nolimit is quite capable of realizing what you're saying, and accepts it to a degree. What he said is not really accurate, but I'm not going to sit here and say he's completely wrong, either, because he's not. But I gotta go. More later.
Post by: nolimit19 on November 01, 2003, 03:52:17 AM
also i am the most logical person i ever met, there is nothing logical about developing from thin air or no right or wrong. these views are not new to me at all so its not like i just came up with that just now while reading these posts. i almost became an athiest a year ago, i am open to anything.
Post by: The Omen on November 01, 2003, 06:13:36 AM
P.S. Grey Ninja, i want you to analyze me next. Just want to see what kind of vibes i put out.
Post by: nolimit19 on November 01, 2003, 08:48:24 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on November 01, 2003, 08:52:22 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2003, 11:35:34 AM
I figure the world would be a whole lot cooler if someone let me decide what should happen, but my friends hardly take me seriously, much less the rest of the world. So. . . their loss.
I don't want to rule the world, of course. That'd be boring. Much more fun to go about and do whatever. . . I spend less time worrying about politics and morals and more time having fun and playing Nintendo. May not be for everyone, I suppose, but it seems like a good idea to me.
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on November 01, 2003, 11:35:58 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2003, 11:46:35 AM
Post by: The Omen on November 01, 2003, 12:33:27 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on November 01, 2003, 12:48:58 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2003, 05:04:48 PM
Didn't mean to sound so harsh. Just messin'
Post by: nolimit19 on November 01, 2003, 05:55:54 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 01, 2003, 05:58:43 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2003, 06:02:00 PM
I think arguing is dumb. People are always a lot happier when they're out, playing on the beach with family, or talking with their friends (while playing Nintendo games
), or making love, or dancing till they drop, or just running around laughing. Whatever. Arguing is dumb. So, I take my leave. Later.
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 01, 2003, 06:04:10 PM
QuoteHow could you forget Custurd!?
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
What if it's apple? Cherry? Key lime? Lemon meringue? Pumpkin? Pecan? Blackbird? What if it costs 50 cents? A dollar? Five dollars? Ten dollars? Fifteen dollars? Yummy? Crappy? Small? Medium? Big? Humongazoid? For eating? For splatting in faces? For stealing off of window panes? Warm? Hot? Cold? Old? New? Fresh? Stale? Dry? Moist? Half? Whole? Quarter? Eighth? HECK NO, PIE AIN'T ABSOLUTE!!!!!
Recap of thread(all of this is true, except for the parts I made up to make it more interesting):
------------------------------------
Pro-profanity- Yay! Profanity!
Anti-profanity- Profanity! Boo!
Pro-profanity- ... Yes!
Anti-profanity- ... No!
Pro-profanity- First Amendment! Right to curse!
Anti-profanity- We don't want it!
Pro-profanity- We have the right!
Anti-profanity- No you don't you pompous turds!
Pro-profanity- Hey! **** off you **** ****ers!
Anti-profanity
*Flame War erupts*
Pro-profanity- Uh...What the hell were we fighting about?
Anti-profanity- ...
Anti-profanity- It must have been pie!
Pro-profanity- Pie!
*And this topic exploded and everyone lived happily ever after*
-----------------------------
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 01, 2003, 06:04:32 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 01, 2003, 06:07:32 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on November 01, 2003, 06:10:48 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 01, 2003, 06:10:52 PM
Very true, nolimit- arguing an issue helps each side better clarify their opinion. It forces you to look at the opposite side of the subject and to change your opinion to either include it or rebuke it. No hard feelings, though, right?
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 01, 2003, 06:24:11 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on November 01, 2003, 06:24:45 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on November 01, 2003, 06:30:17 PM
Bill: If either side is weak, though, they cave in and the argument isn't as heartpumping.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on November 01, 2003, 06:58:37 PM
Post by: Doerr on November 01, 2003, 09:54:21 PM
and I dont care what others call me either because I could care less what people think of me.
oh and I forgot
F!@# Y$#
Post by: ThePerm on November 01, 2003, 11:16:52 PM
http://home.wanadoo.nl/hans.kuiper/optical2.htm
the mind is an odd thing
there are absolutely no triangles in that picture.
http://www.liquidgeneration.com/sabotage/optical_sabotage.asp
now this one is great
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 02, 2003, 02:52:25 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 02, 2003, 04:08:32 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 02, 2003, 05:08:56 AM
Ferret? WHERE!?
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 02, 2003, 05:15:20 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on November 02, 2003, 05:43:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
One thing I like about this board is that we all make up at the end of each argument
Ferret? WHERE!?
Perm's second link...Just keep pressing next until the end...KILLER FERRET!...At least, I think it's a ferret...
Post by: Hostile Creation on November 02, 2003, 05:55:52 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on November 02, 2003, 06:07:14 AM
