Post by: mjbd on October 13, 2003, 03:02:47 PM
Post by: Berny on October 13, 2003, 03:14:40 PM
Post by: Cap on October 13, 2003, 03:14:48 PM
for most games though, i would say yes. games i buy seem to be easier then they used to be, but i think its due to longer games rather then the game actually being easier. older games usually forced you to play through in one sitting. now if you die, you just load up your last save and try it again.
there are some exceptions that i've been playing recently. ikaruga and f-zero are both fairly recent gamecube purchases and are quite difficult, and advance wars 2 is giving me a hard time on the gba.
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on October 13, 2003, 03:46:50 PM
The only thing i think people are just doing this generation is moaning , whining and b*tching about things that they dislike about great games (ex. cell shading) and IMO great games should not be bashed but praised this also goes for great sleeper hits.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 13, 2003, 04:06:32 PM
*shakes fist at F-Zero GX's Diamond Cup master class*
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 13, 2003, 04:35:35 PM
I have played F-Zero GX for a couple of hours since I got it, but the game is way too frickin hard to be fun.
Post by: Moonwatcher on October 13, 2003, 04:36:47 PM
Post by: Pikkcuber on October 13, 2003, 04:54:04 PM
Post by: joeamis on October 13, 2003, 05:19:27 PM
in the early days they couldn't make games as long as they're now so they had to make them harder to preserve the game's life. also there were much fewer games, so they were played more, and they were created to be played alot and mastered.
now with the technology to create very long games, and there being so many more on the market they have to adjust them accordingly, i.e. make them easier. this is for the majority of games. ofcourse exceptions are evident as some older games were easy and modern games are hard.
trying to appeal the games to a masser audience is also a factor in games being easier, they make them easier but longer...hoping to please everyone.
i believe including difficulty levels is something that should be more evident in games, although simply making enemies stronger is not enough for higher diff levels, they should up as many variables for the difficulty as they can-creatively. the first game that comes to mind doing this, is Goldeneye 007 for the N64. Harder difficulty included: stronger enemies, better AI, more+harder objectives, and less powerups, more cameras.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 13, 2003, 06:06:08 PM
Post by: honda_insightful on October 13, 2003, 06:27:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
I play games to escape reality and to have fun, not to get frustrated...
Ditto, but I also want to challenge myself to higher levels of achievement. Give me a hard game that I can play again & again until I beat it.
Actually, the best games are those with difficulty settings (like DDR & fighters) so you can tailor the game to your own desires. (I of course pick the hardest level.)
Post by: vroenis on October 13, 2003, 06:36:20 PM
i think at times games can appear too easy in retrospect. for example if a game is short and has minimal replayability, it may seem too easy - it may (may) equate to brief content, no rewards, no longevity.
but short games can be great - i'd play ico again just to relive the atmosphere (yeah, if i had a ps2) - and back in my pc days i clocked myst in 4 days but played it three times again after that.
before i get flamed as an old-schooler,
i think perhaps people need to check their expectations of a game - what they expect to get out of it, whether there is just too much hype surrounding a certain game's technical development.
i'm reminded of miyomoto's (can't speeell) words on gta3 - it doesn't have the best graphics, it doesn't have the best gameplay, but it gives gamers an excellence sense of freedom (not his exact words, but you get the drift)
i think perhaps freedom is something more and more gamers are looking for instead of on the rails gameplay and/or plots/narration development.
that being said, just because a game is long doesn't mean it's hard or necessarily good.
gar - i think i lost myself in there somewhere.
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 13, 2003, 06:43:56 PM
Post by: Rich on October 13, 2003, 06:49:56 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on October 13, 2003, 06:57:15 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 13, 2003, 07:19:07 PM
Post by: cheers69 on October 13, 2003, 07:20:11 PM
and by the way have RARE gone down the toilet lately anf not reappared or is bill gates just making them create games for his kids
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on October 13, 2003, 08:19:05 PM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 13, 2003, 08:22:44 PM
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on October 13, 2003, 08:24:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nolimit19
my question is, "what is the deal with these lame ass threads?"
Get out of it
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on October 13, 2003, 08:44:04 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on October 13, 2003, 09:35:04 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 13, 2003, 11:23:32 PM
Post by: joshnickerson on October 14, 2003, 04:01:26 AM
Post by: Plugabugz on October 14, 2003, 06:07:25 AM
Being in Europe, I'll get my hands on F-Zero at the end of the month, and then I'll see for myself
Post by: Ian Sane on October 14, 2003, 09:39:01 AM
Another thing to note is that a lot of the hard classics like Contra and Ghouls 'n' Ghosts were arcade games designed to steal as many quarters as possible from kids. If the game was too easy you just wouldn't make any money because everyone would just plow through on one quarter. Thus there was a necessity to make a game harder which doesn't really apply to today where the goal is to sell as many copies of a game as possible so a mass market friendly difficulty is the way to go.
I don't have a problem with hard games or easy games as long as I have fun. A high difficulty is fine as long as it's possible to improve in the game and overcome it with skill. Cheap difficulty like the test of strength in Star Fox Adventures is bullsh!t though and I don't tolerate it. I also hate it when a game is hard because of crappy controls or a bad camera. It sucks when you miss a jump in Super Mario Sunshine because the camera angle is such that you can't see a f*cking thing.
Easy games also suck when you never die, EVER. I remember in Luigi's Mansion I didn't die once until the last boss. Wind Waker is also too easy because I never die while playing it. I wouldn't call Ocarina of Time a hard game but at least I died a few times and when I encountered an enemy like a Stalfos or an Iron Knuckle I was at least worried because I knew they could kick my ass if I wasn't careful. Enemies in Wind Waker are more like an irritating distraction than a threat.
Post by: Matthew on October 14, 2003, 01:15:02 PM
For example, in Mario Sunshie, the main game was pretty easy, but try getting all 120 Shines and such and the game gets a whole lot harder.
Metroid was amazing and hard mode is incredible.
F-Zero was really hard at some points, but you got used to it.
Viewtiful Joe was pretty easy on Kids, but Adults you really have to work for!
The way I look at it, I think it's dumb complaining about it. After all, no matter how hard a game is, if you stick with it, you will perfect it eventually.
If you started SSB:M on Very Hard the first time you playred it and only played that, it would suck for a while, but once you get the hand at it, you will be an amazing player.
The harder the game, the better you will be at it.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 14, 2003, 01:30:00 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 14, 2003, 01:31:20 PM
Post by: SuperLink666 on October 14, 2003, 02:40:23 PM
Post by: joeamis on October 14, 2003, 03:32:53 PM
Post by: Berny on October 14, 2003, 03:36:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: joeamis
honda you're not so insightful, i made the same point you made, much better i might add...
Ouch. I felt that burn from here.
Post by: Pod on October 14, 2003, 04:28:14 PM
If games are at the same time actually getting easier to complete, once you learn to play them, it means that the people who aren't scared away by how immense a game looks, but invests time in figuring out the play mechanics, will just be dissapointed by the lack of actual challenge.
That would indeed be a very sad evolution of gaming, but I don't think there's much to be afraid of really. Though the mainstreem games might be getting easier to cater to a wider audience, really tough games will probably always be around. Viewtiful Joe, Mario Sunshine and F-Zero GX are not particularly easy to me, and Tactics Ogre on the GBA is both obscenely complex and hard.
Post by: honda_insightful on October 15, 2003, 04:20:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: joshnickerson
To me, I don't care if a game is easy or hard, just as long as in the end, I enjoy it. That's how I love both Wind Waker and Viewtiful Joe.
For me Wind Waker was too easy. I was literally BORED it was so easy. So I went back to Ocarina which was much more challenging/fun.
Post by: honda_insightful on October 15, 2003, 04:27:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: joeamis
honda you're not so insightful, i made the same point you made, much better i might add...
Hmmm, I think I drank too much beer this evening. Your name's all blurry.... is that joesanass? Probably, because you're certainly acting like one.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 15, 2003, 05:14:35 PM
I am eagerly awaiting Kirby. I hope to get off work Friday so I can go and pick it up. . . if not, it'll have to wait till. . . Saturday evening!!!!
Post by: joeamis on October 16, 2003, 11:13:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: honda_insightfulQuote
Originally posted by: joeamis
honda you're not so insightful, i made the same point you made, much better i might add...
Hmmm, I think I drank too much beer this evening. Your name's all blurry.... is that joesanass? Probably, because you're certainly acting like one.
uhhh, did you read my whole post? or did you refrain from reading posts before yours again? Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: joeamis
honda you're not so insightful, i made the same point you made, much better i might add... an hour and a half before your post... so do you not read the posts right before yours or do you just steal other peoples posts?
Post by: Berny on October 16, 2003, 11:22:17 AM
Post by: Berny on October 16, 2003, 11:23:22 AM
Post by: Berny on October 16, 2003, 11:25:59 AM
Post by: joeamis on October 16, 2003, 11:47:42 AM
Post by: WesDawg on October 16, 2003, 11:54:21 AM
Post by: honda_insightful on October 16, 2003, 04:07:58 PM
Wind Waker on the other hand... did not die once. Even in that 50 level dungeon (near Link's Island) I did not die. I think it's pretty pathetic when you can go through an entire game, and not even use your save card!
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 16, 2003, 04:12:01 PM
)
Post by: thecubedcanuck on October 17, 2003, 08:08:07 AM
for some reason your avatar makes me want to kill my parents.........
Post by: GoldShadow1 on October 17, 2003, 08:19:51 AM
Post by: Uglydot on October 17, 2003, 10:18:32 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on October 17, 2003, 10:48:00 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 17, 2003, 11:54:52 AM
What? you played WW in one sitting?
My sit'ation is about the same as nolimit19's. Never did get all the stars in SM64 or SMS (beat the final boss on both, though)
Post by: PIAC on October 17, 2003, 03:54:49 PM
, WW i never died, MM i never died (was used to the mechanics after OoT, thats not to say MM was easy) ive died a few times in Mario Sunshine, even more in Mairo 64, like other people have said it really depends on the game, i don't really think games are getting easier, they are just different to what they once were, now instead of stupidly hard platforming sections we have complicated puzzles, technology has advanced in such a way developers don't have to rely on the simple yet hard mechanics of old.out of my GCN games 8 out of 17 games i consider difficult.
Post by: honda_insightful on October 17, 2003, 05:14:11 PM
There's nothing satisfying about just "walking through" a game... you might as well just be watching a movie instead... because you have not improved yourself.
Post by: getupkids on October 17, 2003, 10:13:06 PM
Post by: PIAC on October 17, 2003, 11:37:22 PM
Post by: Mario on October 18, 2003, 12:17:07 AM
Post by: Huzkee on October 18, 2003, 06:06:05 AM
That being said I do find that even hardcore gamers are becoming increasingly turned off by games that require even a medium level of difficulty. I'm talking specifically about gamezine reviews of games that require a higher skill level and went on to get much lower than decerving scores. EGM sometimes baffles me with some of their scores: Waverace Blue Storm, excelent lauch game, requiring finesse and skill to complete the higher courses received scores no higher than 7s because of difficulty. F-zero got two scores that put it below the 8 mark because it was too difficult. Totally unacceptable. Finally, PN03 has been shunned by most game critics by being too short/too difficult/too bland. I personally love it and think the main reason for the low scores being difficulty. Reviews have gone as far as admitting they could only play the game on easy mode, then they complain that the game is too short, that's coming from supposed hardcore gamers? I think this generation of gamers has become too dependant on light and whistles instead of a challenging gaming experience. If you want an indication of true laziness just look at all the cheat devices on the market. Even in entertainment the lazy take the easy road.
Post by: nemo_83 on October 18, 2003, 11:07:19 AM
The crown jewl though would have to be just how easy bowser was in Mario Sunshine. I beat him the first time. Bowser has always posed at least some challenge in the past.
Post by: GoldShadow1 on October 18, 2003, 08:52:38 PM
I am rather perplexed with how everyone seems to think Mario Sunshine is so hard... I didn't have that much of a problem with it, it was certainly easier than SM64 (though probably because I'm more used to the controls). I think it's about medium difficulty. And of course, for some reason it's a Nintendo tradition to have a very easy final boss (compared to earlier bosses, even)
