Post by: /-\rcadian_Xla\/e on September 28, 2003, 02:48:27 PM
As my favourite Zelda game was on SNES, Zelda: A Link To The Past due to the amazing gameplay. A Link To The Past drew the players into it, and so does Wind Waker, and every other Zelda game. Wind Waker draws its audience in, but doesnt hold it. The Wind Waker brought me into it through the graphics, emotion and sounds, but it seems a little easy. Its a brilliant game but isnt as hard and long as Ocarina Of Time. Thats the only problem with Wind Waker. There also is the constant repeatitive boating you have to do which gets annoying!!
The graphics are awesome! Sound is sweet! Story Line is Great and Gameplay is truely amazing!
Wind Waker is one of those games which point out from the rest, just like Ocarina Of Time.
This game is amazing, your mad if you dont play it, though I dont see it as a game to purchase as it took me 3 days to complete.
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 28, 2003, 02:59:33 PM
Post by: /-\rcadian_Xla\/e on September 28, 2003, 03:23:22 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 28, 2003, 03:45:38 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 28, 2003, 03:52:25 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 28, 2003, 04:23:03 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on September 28, 2003, 04:24:04 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on September 28, 2003, 05:18:28 PM
I have to disagree with you there, Ninja. My 4 favorite game ever is Ocarina of Time, followed by Majora's Mask, then A Link to the Past, and finally Wind Waker.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 28, 2003, 05:42:45 PM
And you are both wrong...It's LttP, WW, OoT, Link's Awakening! hehe...^_^
Post by: /-\rcadian_Xla\/e on September 28, 2003, 08:14:27 PM
Post by: Gup on September 29, 2003, 03:20:58 AM
Quote
Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker is my favorite game of all time.
Post by: /-\rcadian_Xla\/e on September 30, 2003, 12:41:01 AM
My Top 5 would be:
1. Harvest Moon (SNES)
2. Phantasy Star Online EPS 1 + 2 (GameCube)
3. Banjo-Kazooie (GameCube) - Mario Kart 64 (N64) (TIED!!)
4. Zelda: A Link To The Past (SNES)
5. Zelda: Ocarina Of Time (N64)
Games im looking forward to:
Mario Kart Double Dash
Zelda (any new title for GameCube or GameCube 2)
Animal Crossing (believe it or not it STILL hasnt been released in Australia after a lot of rumors it has been confirmed!!)
Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life
Yer so this is a Zelda forum right here so I will get back to the subject LOL!!
Whats Tetra's Trackers going to be like? Its not a full on Zelda adventure is it? Everyones been saying its like a multi player zelda where you go searching for treasure doesnt sound too cool to me!!
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 30, 2003, 06:54:22 PM
1) Link to the Past
2) Wind Waker
3) Gunstar Heroes
4) Banjo-Kazooie
5) Super Mario RPG
(You had a little typo for Banjo-Kazooie...I wish it were true though
)
Post by: Ocarina Blue on September 30, 2003, 08:13:49 PM
I find none of this in WW. I haven't found a lake, and there is only one town I feel that is big enough to explore. The only thing to find at sea that you aren't forced to find (that you could 'explore' for) is heart pieces. The gallery is too loose to have to explore for the photos, it only takes a lot of time and hassle to only have three spaces, then having to warp, then having to play the song six times for three trophies. Heart pieces over a map 49 times the size of Hyrule field. Most of the time the islands have little significance, and are irrelevant. The treasure maps only lead to some rupees, which I never need, or heart pieces, and if I have already found the treasure maps, then there is no exploration involved in getting the heart pieces. Sailing over nothing I do not find interesting, and especially not nothing 49 times the size of Hyrule field. I love Windfall island, because it feels like there is something to find, but I can't say I love sailing.
There are other things that I dislike about WW. The wind waker itself I don’t like. You can’t play around with it, and it doesn’t seem like you’re playing a song with it. The ocarina was perfect, I felt, I can’t understand why they choose the wind waker over the ocarina. There were too few dungeons, in my mind as well. I still like WW, but in my mind, it doesn’t live up to the other games in the series.
These are my favourite 5 games.
1) Majora’s Mask*
2) Ocarina of Time
3) Chrono Trigger
4) Super Mario 64
5) A Link to the Past
Tetra’s Trackers is going to be a puzzle game – a franchise game. I hope Zelda doesn’t tun into a franchise like Mario does.
*As I said before, I like MM more than most people, but that's another story.
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 02, 2003, 11:33:02 AM
BUT WW=no let down becuase despite all the flaws we've been mentioning, the graphics, music, sound, story, and gameplay are the games strong points, which outweigh the bad by ALOT. Besides the final battle kick serious butt.
Top 5 games that I've played (slection is limited)
OoT
Super Mario 64
Link's Awakening
WW
The fifth one is a tie between, like, everything.
I have most certainly forgotten some awesome game so the list will almost defidently change.
Best Zelda games:
OoT
LA
WW
ALttP
MM
Oracle of Ages
(those are all the Zelda's I've played).
The End.
Post by: Berny on October 08, 2003, 05:44:01 PM
Post by: Orca The Swordsman on October 09, 2003, 04:47:05 AM
The Wind Waker was the first Zelda game I finished (lame, I know), and I found it quite hard sometimes. It turned me into a Zelda-fan, in fact, I bought my GameCube for this game! After walking around on Outset Island for 5 minutes I just knew I had to have it!
Conclusion: Wind Waker rocks!
Post by: The Omen on October 10, 2003, 11:03:28 AM
Post by: Pepsolman on October 13, 2003, 08:27:15 AM
Sometimes old school is better than New Age. Same goes for the new Gamecube Metroid. I get more out of Metroid Fusion... it's something I feel more relative to.
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 13, 2003, 10:34:36 AM
I don't perceive the Zelda games as necessarily being completely serious, but they are far from silly. And for me, the parts that were suppose to be taken seriously were, by me, taken seriously. The graphics seemed to blend perfectly with the serious parts of the plot.
Post by: robofish on October 23, 2003, 04:50:44 PM
PS-- I still haven't beaten the leaf minigame in WW. There is that one long island with a few of those bird people (I forgot what they are called... I need to play that game again!). You junp off the edge and use the leaf, you are supposed to try to make it through a gate at the end, using the whirlwind things to lift you up. I always get like 2 feet from being through the gate, then my magic runs out. Advice is welcome. Thanks
Post by: KnowsNothing on October 23, 2003, 04:58:27 PM
BTW, is the latest zelda bonus disk (the one w/MM) only available if you buy the system? if it is I will kick Nintendo in the face.
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 23, 2003, 04:58:39 PM
Post by: robofish on October 23, 2003, 05:05:43 PM
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on October 25, 2003, 12:00:01 PM
- Make sure you have your magic upgraded.
- Try to use all of the tornados.
- Once you jump off from the ledge, use Tingle to give you more magic. Right when he finishes, have him do it again. You should only need to use him to help out twice.
Hope that helps.
Post by: robofish on October 25, 2003, 09:57:08 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 25, 2003, 09:32:21 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on October 25, 2003, 09:55:48 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 26, 2003, 12:12:50 PM
Post by: robofish on October 27, 2003, 04:48:08 PM
Post by: Swordsplay on October 30, 2003, 04:40:36 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 30, 2003, 06:14:21 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on October 30, 2003, 12:34:54 PM
Post by: popkorn1 on November 25, 2003, 06:01:25 PM
On a side note, I'm shocked that Metroid Prime isn't on any of your top 5 lists. Shocked! My #1 of all time, by a long shot.
Post by: Koopa Troopa on November 25, 2003, 08:57:57 PM
Quote
On a side note, I'm shocked that Metroid Prime isn't on any of your top 5 lists. Shocked! My #1 of all time, by a long shot.
Yeah it is really awesome. I can't possibly make a real top five.
Post by: Polemistis on November 27, 2003, 04:24:03 PM
Heres my top 5:
1) Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
2) Metroid Prime (GCN)
3) Age of Empires: The Conquerors Expansion (PC)
4) Counter-Strike (PC)
5) Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask (N64)
Post by: -GANON- on December 04, 2003, 03:13:52 PM
Post by: phatboy on December 05, 2003, 02:22:34 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 05, 2003, 07:00:40 PM
Post by: phatboy on December 07, 2003, 10:40:22 AM
Post by: Zero_Plague on December 11, 2003, 03:57:40 PM
First of all, as basically everybody has mentioned, it was far too short compared to Ocarina of Time.
Thats why Ocarina of Time is one of the best Zelda Games... because of its length and its difficulty.
The only thing I ask for in a future Zelda game is a difficulty level.
So that first-time players can go for an Easy, while the ones who want extra challenge can go for a Hard.
If it is set out like that, then I'd imagine that it would have much more lastability, as everyone would want to beat the Hard mode... maybe to unlock something?
The other thing about WindWaker is the sailing.
Yes... I know it is new and it is good to have it in there, but I manage to get bored when your always sailing so far distances... sometimes only to find out that you headed in the wrong direction. It is all set out good with the sounds of the breeze while sailing and how the seagulls fly above your boat just like dolphins would swim below a ship.
It was all set out great... except for the fact that you were doing it for about 40% of the game.
Post by: Gibdo Master on December 11, 2003, 06:40:19 PM
Post by: Zero_Plague on December 11, 2003, 07:03:57 PM
I prefer Zelda Games to be 'More Land' over 'More Water'.
Whats WindWaker 2 Going to based around?
Hyrule taking liftoff and then istead of sailing great distances we are going to have to fly them?
I want them to go back to the land... but seeing they stuffed up parts of the story of Hyrule being flooded, where else is there to go?
Post by: Ocarina Blue on December 12, 2003, 02:37:15 AM
Post by: Jale on December 13, 2003, 06:44:35 AM
Post by: Ocarina_Jedi on December 13, 2003, 11:39:34 AM
From the very begining I didn't like the baton. I just tried to accept it, but now that I see I'm not the only one who didn't like it, I'll say my piece. WHY does Link conduct the wind? That has to be the dumbest idea ever. I think that controlling the wind was a great gimmick for the new game, but with a conducters baton??? Why not a kazoo for crying out loud? The ocarina should have been brought back for WW, and it should be in WW2. That is the perfect item for Link in any game.
You wanna know something that I missed in WW? There were no masks. (The Hero's Charm doesn't count.) I had grown fond of masks because of MM. I'd like to see some again.
Plus, am I the only one who thought that Ganondorf was kinda easy?
(Don't get the wrong idea. I really liked WW, I'm just saying there was room for improvement.)
Post by: Jale on December 14, 2003, 11:19:34 AM
Less Sailing
Masks
Ocarina
Multiple Tunics (like the zora and goron ones)
Post by: Jale on December 14, 2003, 11:21:22 AM
Less Sailing
Masks
Ocarina
Multiple Tunics (like the zora and goron ones)
Post by: silverdonut on December 14, 2003, 01:25:00 PM
I hate the baton. It took me forever to get itright. I loved the ocarina. I loved making up new songs and stuff. I also loved the masks too. I especially loved the way you can be the deku scrub, goron, and zora. It gave you an idea of what it might actually be like being one of them insead of a human. The difficulty level was ok. Not too hard, yet not too easy. I liked it that way.
Does anyone else agree with me in saying that the first boss was harder than Ganon?
Post by: Jale on December 15, 2003, 08:11:05 AM
THE NAME IS JALE, J-A-L-E not Jade
I agree. Ghoma was difficult becuase of the annyoing moving tail, but Ganon was too easy. It was like fighting a harder Darknut.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 15, 2003, 09:21:32 AM
Post by: Jale on December 15, 2003, 09:49:50 AM
Post by: silverdonut on December 16, 2003, 11:20:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jale
I accedently posted twice and I dont know how to delete it
THE NAME IS JALE, J-A-L-E not Jade
I agree. Ghoma was difficult becuase of the annyoing moving tail, but Ganon was too easy. It was like fighting a harder Darknut.
Sorry Jade, I MEAN Jale. It's actually impossible to double post since you have to wait a minute before being able to post again. That's probably why they have it too. So you won't double post accidentlly.
They shouldn't even have started the Wind Baton. They should have kept the ocarina. What is a Zelda game without one?
Post by: Jale on December 16, 2003, 11:43:06 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 16, 2003, 12:18:52 PM
QuoteConsider the fact that out of the 10 Zelda games in existence(including Four Swords), only 2 have the ocarina(don't count the "flute" in LttP
Originally posted by: silverdonut
They should have kept the ocarina. What is a Zelda game without one?
)...Ninty is one to try new things, and this is the last time I'm going to say that...
Post by: Jale on December 16, 2003, 12:30:37 PM
Post by: Smashman on December 16, 2003, 12:33:44 PM
Post by: Jale on December 16, 2003, 12:37:18 PM
My list (best to worst)
OoT
WW
LttP
MM
LA
LoZ
OoS/OoA
AoL
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on December 16, 2003, 01:54:43 PM
Post by: Jale on December 17, 2003, 07:50:45 AM
Post by: krisdfish on December 18, 2003, 11:50:49 AM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on December 18, 2003, 12:54:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
...Ninty is one to try new things, and this is the last time I'm going to say that...
I regard Nintendo's ability and willingness to change the series with much respect. However, an ocarina/flute has featured in enough Zelda games I believe it warrants at least some recognition as a Zelda item; the bow and arrows, the boomerang, and the master sword all do.
Post by: Jale on December 18, 2003, 01:08:27 PM
Post by: krisdfish on December 18, 2003, 01:29:18 PM
Post by: Jale on December 18, 2003, 01:43:06 PM
Post by: dus on December 19, 2003, 07:05:54 AM
Post by: Ocarina_Jedi on December 19, 2003, 12:29:41 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 19, 2003, 06:55:15 PM
Post by: Jale on December 20, 2003, 10:44:24 AM
Post by: evil intentions on December 21, 2003, 12:07:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: krisdfish
I think WW is better then OoT. Don't ask me why I just do.
I like WW better too. I like the cel-shading. It makes it look like a comic book.
Post by: Jale on December 22, 2003, 07:48:05 AM
Post by: i wanna rock on December 22, 2003, 12:04:11 PM
I am new to these boards, and since this is the paticular area of which that I found and joined these forums, I think this is the best place to put my comments.
WW added a few new elements of gameplay, namely the sailing aspect among others.
What annoys me uncontrolably on this subject is the damn graphics! Damn them to hell!
Yes, i played it for awhile, got bored and turned around to my N64, where I played OoT and MM for hours on end.
The old graphics were perfect! Why change them!? I would be fine with the old graphics being used for a new Zelda game of tremendous size.
The issues that i have with the graphics are not they are 'childish' or a step back, but when compared to OoT and MM, they are pathetic!
It is pure insantiy to think otherwise, and the thing is, I have heard it everywere! "The new graphics are Great!" "The new graphics blow your mind!".
Please tell me that this is all a huge conspiracy and one of those candit camera jokes!
Post by: Berny on December 22, 2003, 03:02:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: i wanna rock
The old graphics were perfect! Why change them!?
The old graphics were perfect for the old generation and the stories they were meant to tell. WW is another story with COMPLETELY different gameplay. Seeing the wind and the sea celshaded works very well in my opinion. It basically REQUIRED the cartoon look and feel because of the physically impossible gameplay. Talking boats and fish, bird people, the visible wind, it all would have looked absurd with photorealistic graphics.
Quote
Originally posted by: i wanna rock
The issues that i have with the graphics are not they are 'childish' or a step back, but when compared to OoT and MM, they are pathetic!
No they are not childish but you have given not evidence to back up your arguement? HOW are they pathetic? How can you look at a game where individual blades of grass are tossed around by the wind, where and entire OCEAN can exist without dropping a frame and say the graphics are pathetic. Traditional they are not. Pathetic even less so.
</rant>
Post by: evil intentions on December 22, 2003, 04:06:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: i wanna rock
Hi,
I am new to these boards, and since this is the paticular area of which that I found and joined these forums, I think this is the best place to put my comments.
WW added a few new elements of gameplay, namely the sailing aspect among others.
What annoys me uncontrolably on this subject is the damn graphics! Damn them to hell!
Yes, i played it for awhile, got bored and turned around to my N64, where I played OoT and MM for hours on end.
The old graphics were perfect! Why change them!? I would be fine with the old graphics being used for a new Zelda game of tremendous size.
The issues that i have with the graphics are not they are 'childish' or a step back, but when compared to OoT and MM, they are pathetic!
It is pure insantiy to think otherwise, and the thing is, I have heard it everywere! "The new graphics are Great!" "The new graphics blow your mind!".
Please tell me that this is all a huge conspiracy and one of those candit camera jokes!
Are you serious? WW was one of the greatest Zelda games in my opinion. Celshaded was one of the greatest things about it. How can you say they were a step back? I tried playing OoT and MM a few days ago. I sure as hell did not enjoy them as I used to. Now, normally, graphics don't matter to me. But in WW, they really made a difference. Ninty likes to try new things. There's nothing wrong with that. If you have a problem with that, than you have a problem. All Zelda games are great. I don't care about the graphics. I enjoy the game because of it's adventure and puzzles. Complain to someone else about your problems, because Ninty did a great job.
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 22, 2003, 06:36:30 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on December 22, 2003, 08:23:44 PM
Now if you are talking about the art style then that is a different story. Honestly, though the Zelda 64 DO NOT have realistic graphics. Both the N64 games and Wind Waker are cartoony it's just that Wind Waker has a different style.
Personally, I have recently gained a greater appreciation for Wind Waker's graphics. After playing Ocarina of Time for the first time recently after having beaten Wind Waker I felt the graphics were very ugly and outdated. Wind Waker is a truly gorgeous game and even though I've said that I would rather they use Ocarina's art style with cel-shading in the past I really don't feel that way anymore. Especially after realizing that most of the characters in Ocarina of Time have that weird deformed look that the Wind Waker characters have.
Post by: Jale on December 23, 2003, 08:12:22 AM
Imagine a version of Wind Waker in OoT graphics. All that water, looking like it did in OoT. How could you do that! It just wouldn't work for the type of game that WW is. However applying WW graphics to OoT would look great but make it look a bit more childish. The fact is that the two graphics styles are perfectly suited to what they need to do. OoT needed to look gritty and a bit frightning. WW needed to look bright and cheery but still be able to worry you (the earth temple scared me a bit!).
Post by: Berny on December 23, 2003, 03:45:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jale
Try this...
Imagine a version of Wind Waker in OoT graphics. All that water, looking like it did in OoT. How could you do that! It just wouldn't work for the type of game that WW is ...The fact is that the two graphics styles are perfectly suited to what they need to do.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Oh and also, I think that Majora's Mask, unfortunately one of Zelda's most undervalued games or so it seems, would have looked even better celshaded, but that would confilct with it being a continuation of the Hero of Time story so they'd have to make Link resemble OOT Link for it to make sense. MM was just so unusual, so "out of this world" that, after playing WW (and Viewtiful Joe) I think celshading would have been perfect for the game. Unfortunately, the N64 didn't have the guts to allow a celshaded game to play smoothly.
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 23, 2003, 06:06:08 PM
Post by: i wanna rock on December 24, 2003, 04:29:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
It really makes me wonder if the people that diss Wind Waker's graphics have even PLAYED a Zelda game before OoT...The ignorance of some people pisses me off so much...
So you imply I am ignorant now? What would it matter if someone had'nt played a Zelda game before OoT? Would it make their playing of the more recent games less exciting? I know i should'nt be 'dissing' you, as you odviously have some respect and experiance on these boards, i should'nt be answering back to such a pressence that uses words such as diss.
The ignorance of SOME people pisses you off? So you are either a very upset person, or very prejudiced. Every one is ignorant in one aspect or another.
Why don't you tell me what the famous words of Colonel Inglis were at the battle of Albuera? Because I get SO pissed of when people are ignorant about that one....
Quote
Originally posted by: Gibdo Master
Honestly, though the Zelda 64 DO NOT have realistic graphics.
At what point did I say in my post that they were realistic?
Quote
Originally posted by: evil intentions
Complain to someone else about your problems, because Ninty did a great job.
So my opinions are irrelevant becuase your opinion happens to be the same as everyone else on this board?
You match my opinion with an opinion?
Unless this is an area for people who love WW and hold the same opinion as each other, I am allowed to post here.
You would rather have me go so you can stay here syaing:
"God, the new style of graphics is so great.",
"Yes, it is isn't it?"
Oh would'nt life be great if we could all have conversations and agree with each other on everything...
Since my opinions are obviously not valued I shall respectfully stand down, as a game in the former graphics will not happen while everyone insists on loving these new graphics. I shall save my keyboard some wear.
Post by: Bloodworth on December 24, 2003, 05:32:27 AM
Post by: Berny on December 24, 2003, 02:46:05 PM
Regardless, my position remains the same: I cannot wait for the next "I am a tremendous clownboat.".
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 24, 2003, 04:32:34 PM
Quote
Oh would'nt life be great if we could all have conversations and agree with each other on everything...
No, man. People like you exist solely for the purpose of making conflict. Keeps it interesting.
You don't seem like a bad guy, just saying that as far as I'm concerned, you are not a person. Merely a few bits of electronic information on my computer that happen to disagree with me. So it's hard to sympathize. You think this argument against you with these graphics is bad, we're all living the Gamecube sucks battle from day to day. . . at least you and the rest of us can agree on some things video game related. Don't pretend your the victim here, because we're all in the same position.
Post by: Berny on December 25, 2003, 05:00:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Merely a few bits of electronic information on my computer that happen to disagree with me.
AH HA HA HA HA! Oh that is beautiful.
Post by: GoHuskers on December 28, 2003, 04:03:23 PM
Another thing that bothered me was the time it took to beat the game. I figured that if they could make OOT last so long on the power of the N64 they should be able to make Wind Waker 3 times as long. Sadly, it appears they sacrificed a couple more levels in favor of a couple more miles of ocean.
However, the worst part of it all was the sailing. What the heck was Nintendo thinking? It seems I'm asking myself that question a lot now a days. I credit them for trying to be inovative, but let's face it. Sailing sucked. End of story. I've had beaten every Zelda game more than once until I played this. I just couldn't bring myself to endure all of that sailing again. I didn't even get all of the items and stuff it was so boring.
With that said, I'd give this game a 'B'. I mean, it is Zelda after all. However, if someone tried to pass this game off with any other character other than Link it would've been shot out of the sky. Hear's hoping for a slightly better game next time around.
Post by: Hostile Creation on December 28, 2003, 06:42:24 PM
Quote
Like the part when Tetra defies gravity for a second and falls down after the branch she was on breaks.
I agree. That bit is annoying, even to me. I suppose younger sisters are allowed to like it, though.
They did cut a few levels to get it out on time. I'm hoping they put the levels into the sequel, or perhaps have a bonus disc that include those levels.
Post by: Berny on December 29, 2003, 05:47:23 AM
Post by: Jale on December 29, 2003, 11:56:31 AM
Wind Waker with extra levels
Ocarina of Time in Wind Waker Graphics
Majora's Mask in Wind Waker Graphics
Post by: xanrastafari on December 31, 2003, 04:05:14 PM
Post by: evil intentions on January 02, 2004, 07:19:47 AM
Quote
However, the worst part of it all was the sailing. What the heck was Nintendo thinking? It seems I'm asking myself that question a lot now a days. I credit them for trying to be inovative, but let's face it. Sailing sucked. End of story. I've had beaten every Zelda game more than once until I played this. I just couldn't bring myself to endure all of that sailing again. I didn't even get all of the items and stuff it was so boring.
Sure, the sailing got boring after a while, and yes, it got annoying having to sail everywhere just to get to a tiny piece of land somewhere. But Ninty likes to try new things. It was a really good game. I loved the cel-shading. The sailing was only a part of the game. It didn't make the whole game bad. I still enjoyed all the puzzles and dungeons. WW was a really good game with a few things that made the game a bit annoying. Either way though, to me, all Zelda games are great.
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 02, 2004, 10:10:58 AM
However, it is incredibly difficult to impress me, and to keep my attention for a while. This game did both. I played it three times. I never played a long game three times before that (long being longer than one or two hours till completion, like many NES games).
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 02, 2004, 11:52:38 AM
to sailing!
Post by: CardBoardBox on January 02, 2004, 12:03:09 PM
to capsizing
Post by: Jale on January 03, 2004, 05:31:45 AM
Post by: Berny on January 04, 2004, 01:39:01 PM
I started another file of WW before Christmas and I'm 1/2 way done; I've use the Ballad of Gales twice. That's it. I just love sailing.
Post by: evil intentions on January 04, 2004, 04:11:35 PM
Post by: mjbd on January 04, 2004, 05:01:42 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 04, 2004, 05:31:04 PM
Post by: Jale on January 05, 2004, 08:10:19 AM
Post by: Chode2234 on January 16, 2004, 06:52:39 AM
Post by: Jale on January 16, 2004, 07:59:07 AM
Post by: Chode2234 on January 16, 2004, 09:17:32 AM
Post by: Jale on January 16, 2004, 09:45:46 AM
Post by: Guitar Smasher on January 17, 2004, 05:59:27 AM
Post by: Berny on January 17, 2004, 08:11:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Guitar Smasher
more 'darker'
HA HA HA! Quote
the darkest of all Zelda games.
Well it's definitely up there. But the Shadow Temple is creepy, and the ending of WW I thought almost merited a Teen rating for the game. It probably would have gotten that rating if they had shown blood like it TOOT. (TOOT...hee hee
) Plus the Redeads and Gibdos in the 3D one's are REALLY scary. They frightened me in WW more than once.Post by: Hostile Creation on January 17, 2004, 10:55:55 AM
Post by: Jale on January 17, 2004, 11:00:47 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 18, 2004, 07:15:28 AM
They need to bring back the "roam around the room not being knocked back by your attacks" Gibdos from the old days...
And I don't know how you felt doomed in OoT...The most I've ever felt "doomed" was during that huge storm section in Wind Waker...I felt really jittery waiting for something to pop out at me... ^_^
Post by: mouse_clicker on January 18, 2004, 07:43:15 AM
Quote
They need to bring back the "roam around the room not being knocked back by your attacks" Gibdos from the old days...
That always pissed me off so much!!
For some reason I always forget that they don't get knocked back by your attacks, and fall into their deadly trap of expecting to be safe after I hit them! 
Post by: Smashman on January 18, 2004, 07:44:46 AM
However, compared to most other games, it is a masterpiece, but compared to other Zelda titles (OoT, LTTP), it is utter crap. The game is great, but has noticeable flaws. They are so obvious. Too short. Too easy. Lack of dungeons. Not really Zelda. Doesn't compare to OoT at ALL. I did not feel challenged ONCE through the entire game. I am shocked to see so many of you think of this one of their favorite games of all time. This game is probably inferior to pretty much all of the other Zeldas. tWW was inferior to OoT in every way.
In conclusion, tWW is a good game and worth playing, but c'mon- it DID NOT live up to OoT at all. I used to think this was one of the best, until I saw how incredibly short it was, and how it didn't live up to OoT at all. You have to have a pretty small gaming repertoire to think this is one of the best. There are LOTS of greater games out there, alot which are probably overlooked.
I am not trying to negate anybodys opinion, but c'mon. The faults are so obvious. No game is perfect, but this game lacked any sort of magic that other Zelda games had. OoT is just a beautiful and emotional game, with lots of great places and dungeons, and is widely considered to be the greatest video game ever! Wind Waker is merely a good game, and is loaded with faults.
That is my 2 cents.
Post by: Jale on January 18, 2004, 09:15:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
And I don't know how you felt doomed in OoT...The most I've ever felt "doomed" was during that huge storm section in Wind Waker...I felt really jittery waiting for something to pop out at me... ^_^
That bit was really good but not as scary as the whole adult part of OoT. As Steven Donaldson put it
"The only way to hurt a man who has nothing is to give him back something broken"
The Hyrule in OoT is a broken world. Of course in WW it is a broken world also, but there is a perfectly good overworld as well.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on January 18, 2004, 01:01:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
I used to absolutely love tWW, and still do.
However, compared to most other games, it is a masterpiece, but compared to other Zelda titles (OoT, LTTP), it is utter crap. The game is great, but has noticeable flaws. They are so obvious. Too short. Too easy. Lack of dungeons. Not really Zelda. Doesn't compare to OoT at ALL. I did not feel challenged ONCE through the entire game. I am shocked to see so many of you think of this one of their favorite games of all time. This game is probably inferior to pretty much all of the other Zeldas. tWW was inferior to OoT in every way.
In conclusion, tWW is a good game and worth playing, but c'mon- it DID NOT live up to OoT at all. I used to think this was one of the best, until I saw how incredibly short it was, and how it didn't live up to OoT at all. You have to have a pretty small gaming repertoire to think this is one of the best. There are LOTS of greater games out there, alot which are probably overlooked.
I am not trying to negate anybodys opinion, but c'mon. The faults are so obvious. No game is perfect, but this game lacked any sort of magic that other Zelda games had. OoT is just a beautiful and emotional game, with lots of great places and dungeons, and is widely considered to be the greatest video game ever! Wind Waker is merely a good game, and is loaded with faults.
That is my 2 cents.
For some reason I get the idea that Oot was your first Zelda game. I could be completely wrong, but that's the impression I get. I have to disagree that Oot is better than WW in every aspect. WW, in my opinion, has much more fluent graphics, and in turn, more realism. Yeah, it's a 'cartoon'. But, there's a difference between having stylized graphics, and graphics that try to imitate realism, but with little success. Secondly, WW controlled better than Oot, in my opinion, again. Several times I found Oot to be kind of clumsy, but I'll admit it was great for its time. But, no matter what, WW definitely controls better, no question. Frankly, I know many will disagree with me, but I prefer to 'compare' Zelda games to LttP, rather than Oot. In my opinion, it is the 'perfect' Zelda game. I think the story, play mechanics, graphics, and length/organization is the best it can be. In all honesty, I can not think of any possible improvements for the game, it was just that close to perfection. But of course, some will disaggree, but that's ok.
Post by: odifiend on January 18, 2004, 04:55:40 PM
Like many fans, I saw the Space World demo and was blown away that the sequel to the zelda series could look like that. I mean you could see every fiber, in Link's tunic, and to me it displayed the power that could lie in the future Nintendo. So I immediately bought the GCN with this Zelda and Perfect Dark in mind (As you know that plan didn't work out- still there were plenty of other unquestionably great games that came out for the cube
). Anyway I was a happy gamer^3, until I saw Link in his new cel shaded style. Honestly I was crushed. The first screen shot I saw was Link, cel-shaded in the worst pose possible. I thought the world would end. But as Wind Waker approached being the Zelda fan that I am, I began to get really excited. It was a Zelda game after all. I played the demos at Best Buy and was really impressed by the quickness of Link's movements and very soon I began frothing at the mouth at the sight or mention of green.I got my bonus disk and played MQ. The graphics were now only tolerable to me. I was all for cel-shaded now. They let Link move quickly without looking completely unrealistic (a cartoon after all). Finally I got my copy of WW. And for the first day, it was the greatest experience ever. Link does backflips, Link rolls, Link hides under barrels, and has his own talking boat. It was Zelda. Until Link decides to go out to sea and sail miles of ocean that all looks the same. This part, this large part, of the game made the game unbearable for me. I just couldn't stand sailling. Even with the Wind at my back, it still seemed like I was going at a snail's pace- I know boats don't go fast but it was a magic boat. It felt like the demo had lied to me with its promise of speedy and fluid movement because there was movement over fluid but it was by no means speedy. This is when the unthinkable happened and I put down my controller and played other things. Gawd, I even found myself saying that I had HOMEWORK and STUDYING to do, with an unfinished Zelda game under my roof! That is blasphemy!
So while Wind Waker was a good game with a good story, it was a huge let down in that it is the only Zelda game that I could put down and stop playing.
Just to get something else out of my system- While I'm not a complete OoT fanboy, I do kind of get touchy when people say things such as WW's graphics are better than OoT's. It is kind of comparing apples to oranges. And even if it were comparing apples to apples, WW is OoT's and MM's sequel. It damn well better have improved graphics. People stop looking at old-gen games with new-gen eyes.
Guitarsmasher- I agree with your entire paragraph save the insinuation that OoT imitated realism with little success. It isn't regarded as one of the best games ever for nothing and even on its inferior platform, it can give some next-gen games a run for their money (nothing Nintendo makes of course).
Post by: DarkSyphor on January 19, 2004, 12:43:51 AM
For one thing the creature
1 makes a scary thriller noise
2 makes a shadow when approching you
3 looks like a spider that has claws on its feet
if people dont know the creature im talking about its in OoT,MM and i think LTTP and that creature was a put down for me when it was not put in WW but i a bit happy because i used to have nightmares of that creature (i dont know why maybe because i played it when i was 7) but WW was awsome and I still want to buy after i clocked it (because if i have the game i have all the series even the NEs and SuperNEs and GameBoy
) I think the cartoon graphic that Waltdisney gave to Miyamoto made a big differance
Post by: odifiend on January 19, 2004, 02:24:40 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 19, 2004, 04:18:39 AM
Post by: odifiend on January 19, 2004, 04:28:33 AM
Post by: Jale on January 19, 2004, 07:23:46 AM
Post by: DarkSyphor on January 19, 2004, 01:22:01 PM
The Floor masters in WW is much frightening with the black hole you see until the hand comes out and grabs you. I cant remeber but I think in the Wind Temple or the other Temple that there is gas on the floor and you cant see though the gas and also your arms cant pull out your sword so its like that Movie Jurrasic park when the guys goes into the toliet and Trex trapes him in the Toliet and eats him (the movie was funny but the Temple,in the game, was dead scary). The MM Floor master was also scary only in the Water Temple when your a Zora and there's a pipe where you have to go through (dead scary when the grab you with out notice) and also the Invisible SkullSpiders in the Water and Forest Temple in WW coming down on you with impact.
Post by: ralph98201 on January 28, 2004, 07:36:32 AM
Post by: Jale on January 28, 2004, 08:22:50 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 28, 2004, 01:21:15 PM
Post by: evil intentions on January 28, 2004, 01:44:00 PM
Post by: Smashman on January 28, 2004, 02:58:44 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on January 28, 2004, 03:20:34 PM
And a very good one at that...
Post by: Hostile Creation on January 30, 2004, 01:46:39 AM
Doesn't work on zombies, though, does it? Never tried, actually. . .
Post by: Smashman on February 01, 2004, 06:41:22 AM
This is quoted from someone else... repeat... this is quoted from someone else! I wholeheartedly agree with him, though.
First off, no matter how much I bash certain parts of tWW, calling it utterly pathetic, etc., etc., I still absolutely loved this game, and it is easily one of the best I've ever played. It just has a lot of flaws.
First off, the difficulty. Sure, tWW, had one of two slightly hard parts, like fighting 4 Darknuts on the last floor of the Savage Labyrinth, but overall, this is quite possibly one of the easiest games I’ve ever had the joy of owning. I don't think I've EVER died in the game, and only actually needed to use one of my fairies about 4 times: Twice in the Savage Labyrinth, once during the last battle, and once because of an enraged giant pig. Now that's pathetic, that I can go through the entire game without dying ONCE. Pitiful, I tell you.
I want the next Zelda to be difficult. I want my enemies to do a half heart of damage... at the least. I want enemies like Darknuts, Iron Knuckles, and bosses to do about THREE hearts of damage. At the very LEAST.
I want puzzles and mazes that actually make me think.
I want the Savage Labyrinth to return, since it was awesome
Next off... When the King of Hyrule, otherwise known as Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule, told me that I needed to collect the 8 pieces of the Triforce of Courage, I was very happy. I expected another eight dungeons. Whenever I saw the status screen, and that empty triangle-shaped hole, I anticipated lots of dungeons where I needed to find pieces of the ToC. Alas, I was sorely disappointed. All I needed was a lot of money, and to complete a few sidequests to get the Triforce charts found and deciphered. And then I needed to cruise around on the ocean a bit and pull them out of the water. Again, pitiful.
By the end of the game, I was thoroughly sick of puny little islands. Seriously, out of all those islands, OUTSET had the most land exploration, outside of the dungeons. Despite how huge the overworld really is, were you to squish all the islands together, I doubt it'd be any bigger then OoT's explorable area. Now that's utterly pathetic. Looking at the scenery outside of Hyrule Castle really made me realize how much land exploration in tWW would have amazed me.
I want the next game to get rid of the boat-riding altogether. Seriously. And (I can wish, right? ) I want an overworld almost as large, yet I want all the different areas to be unique. I want different types of habitats, like deserts. I want swamps, that stretch on for a long time, with bogs, and all that stuff, yet enough room to actually fight and talk to NPCs. Forests, like those misty woods on top of Outset Island... those were awesome. I want a return to LttP-style woods, with mist floating around the trees, lots of stumps to explore, paths leading off into the forest... Mountains ranges, like Tal Tal Heights from LA, only in glorious 3D celshading, riddled with caves, passes, cliffs, etc., etc. Fields stretching off in all sorts of directions, with pot holes, small clumps of trees, rickety wooden towers stretching into the sky... I want ravines, valleys, cliffs, and huge castles like Hyrule Castle from tWW, which you sadly only see every once in awhile, and don't really see much of. I want a return to Lake Hylia, only larger then ever before, with underwater caves and other, similar, things...
I want the land to feel even more alive. Sure, tWW felt more alive then any other game I've ever played, but it could have been so much more... I want small hermits living in the woods, I want an LttP-style Kakariko village, which spreads over a large area, with the Lost Woods infringing on the side, and with a pond in the middle...
I want camp sites areas out on the plains or mountains that I can visit, I want at LEAST 4 other human villages, besides Kakariko village, not even counting whatever settlements other races like the Zoras or Gorons have built up.
I want lots of enemies, and I want to see some more of the old bosses. I want to fight Vitreous, Kholdstare, Dark Link, Gleeok, Aquamentus, etc., etc. Even some of the more recent ones, like Volvagia.
Remember the 2D Zeldas? How most parts of the overworld have enemies? I want enemies to populate the OVERWORLD too. In the recent games, you'll find very few enemies outside of dungeons. I want to be ambushed by Moblins while riding through foothills on my horse, I want the old-school Octoroks, which are actually landbased, to start shooting at me...
I want longranged enemies again. I want Moblins that throw their spears or shoot arrows at me, like in LttP or LA. I want this vast world to be populated with tons of monsters in ANY wilderness areas, not just in the dungeons and a few parts of the overworld.
And, unlike in OoT, I don't want to have to go through small tunnels to enter places. I want most areas to just be open to the overworld, until there is no way to tell where the "overworld" begins and the individual areas begin. tWW proves that this can be done, after all, there is no screen-switching between sections of the sea, or if you want to land on Outset Island, you can easily do so without worrying about having to load anything because it's a "new" area.
Like LttP, there would BE no overworld. There would BE no Gerudo Valley. Everything would be one and the same.
I want to see the return of some of the cool items which are rarely used more then once, like the Fire and Ice Rods, or the Bombos, Quake, and Ether Medallions.
Oh wait, I never touched on the graphics. Let me tell you, this would ONLY work correctly with the celshaded style used in tWW. That fit the series PERFECTLY, and it would fit my vision of the perfect game even better.
In short, what I want I'll never get.. My dream of the perfect Zelda, will never be...
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2004, 07:15:20 AM
And I think 12 dungeons would have been overkill...1 or 2 more(making 5 or 6 normal dungeons) would have been the perfect amount...But with 2 dungeons taken out of WW and set aside for the next game, I wouldn't doubt 7-9 dungeons...
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 01, 2004, 07:22:44 AM
Quote
The Zelda series has never been very tough, perhaps with the possible exception of AoL. So it doesn't matter to me how hard it is as long as it's fun, which has never been an issue...
The Zelda series has also never been extremely easy. I do love Wind Waker, and it is one of my favorite games of all time, but many people don't consider being left unchallenged fun. Challenge and difficulty make up a large part of how enjoyable a game is, and Wind Waker would be near perfect in my opinion if it had been made in such a way where I couldn't breeze through the game with my eyes closed.
Post by: DrZoidberg on February 01, 2004, 08:26:05 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2004, 08:31:04 AM
Post by: Jale on February 01, 2004, 08:35:27 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2004, 08:37:59 AM
Post by: Jale on February 01, 2004, 08:39:46 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 01, 2004, 08:47:49 AM
Post by: Jale on February 01, 2004, 10:02:50 AM
Post by: Smashman on February 01, 2004, 10:32:39 AM
Some of you people are doubting the quality of OOT?!?!?! Are you crazy? You need to appreciate the classics! It is a great game, easily better than tWW, and... boy do I love to debate about video games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 01, 2004, 10:42:11 AM
Post by: DarkSyphor on February 01, 2004, 12:21:26 PM
Out side of Gerudos Fortess the race
and Inside Gerudos Fortress the Horse back Archery with 2000pts to get
the reast of all the series was easy and i didnt need to use a fairy at all. only when i decided to not use no shield or other equipment when fighting the huge bird in WW because i was so darn stupied that day (i woke up with no breakfast and i could only find some suger straws, i should of looked in the kitchen)
Post by: Ocarina_Jedi on February 01, 2004, 01:04:35 PM
Post by: Ocarina Blue on February 02, 2004, 08:09:45 PM
Post by: Tysken1 on February 06, 2004, 08:26:30 AM
People have complained about the graphic style, but that isn't a concern for me; cartoons are great and so is Wind Waker. The only thing I find bad in Wind Waker is the sailing. There and back again, as Bilbo Baggins would say.
Set the right direction, get the sails up, wait for enemies to pop up, kill them and finally you're there. This is repeated umpteen times. The distance between islands really could have been shorter.
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 11, 2004, 03:51:11 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 11, 2004, 03:55:10 PM
It doesn't matter if the scenery didn't change much, it was still an adventure...
(And I'd rather not jump into paintings in a Zelda game...
)
Post by: Smashman on February 12, 2004, 11:08:22 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on February 12, 2004, 03:37:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
Adventure - An undertaking or enterprise of a hazardous nature.
It doesn't matter if the scenery didn't change much, it was still an adventure...
(And I'd rather not jump into paintings in a Zelda game...
But what if it did change scenery? You never know....it really could of improved the feel of the game.
Post by: Berny on February 13, 2004, 01:45:19 PM
You simply must because it is a provable fact.
Post by: Draygaia on February 13, 2004, 02:02:15 PM
Post by: Smashman on February 22, 2004, 05:44:32 AM
Only one of the 3D Zelda games have given me enough dungeons...
I can play OOT for hours! The massive, diverse world! Forest/woods, large, breathtaking field, lake, desert, village, graveyard, volcano/mountain, another village, castle, river, waterfall, domain. So many towns! Kokiri Forest, Kakariko Village, Goron City, Gerudo's Fortress, Hyrule Castle Market, Zora's Domain, etc. So many places with so much to do! WW had what? Outset and Windfall... I can play OOT for hours, just walking around. tWW is just dominated with tedium.
THESE WERE NOT TAKEN FROM ME, BUT FROM SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!!!! I agree with him!
"wind waker was a slap dash attempt at a game, it was generally poor in every aspect. It deserves to be placed between 50-100 not number 1, that is clearly just bias. If anyone begs to differ, I will gladly debate why it doesn't belong in the number 1 spot.
Your first point on popularity: It is a leech game. It is leeching off the success of its predecessors and is gaining the support mainly from the fanboys. If you say that WW is the best game for the GC on the market, I may as well chuck the GC in the trash. I strongly, and I mean very strongly, believe that SSBM was a far superior game, it should be considered the best game on the GC to date. It came out with the release of the GC, reducing waiting periods, it promised a lot and gave a whole lot more, the graphics are so fluid for a 4 player fighting game, it is still very innovative even though we have all played the old SSB (which seems like a completely different game). There is so much in this game, and such close attention to detail, that this game easily gave me many hours of fun, after more than a year of having the system I still play it. Unlike the WW.
2. Compared to Ocarina...
Other than the bright colours, WW has nothing over Oot.
3. Graphics
I had no prejudice against cel-shading before playing this game, I hadn't seen any games with it used yet. But after playing WW, I thoroughly dislike cel-shading. There is this stupid annoying blob of hair that looks like crap, once i noticed, i couldn't stob noticing it. It looks completely rubbish. Everything is just an outline with a fill effect, someone could make this game in flash. If you want to see facial expressions, play Final Fantasy X, there may be a slight jittering problem (not as an advanced system) but it is clearly using the capabilities of a facial expression engine. The characters express a whole roller coaster of emotions in that game. In WW, all that was offered were 2 or 3 different facial expressions, one angry one sad one normal, and maybe 1 or 2 others that weren't that powerful enough to make me remember it. And they didn't even ease into each other, the expression just changed like his face was a powerpoint presentation.
There are without a doubt games with better graphical features, Kingdom Hearts easily beats any game in the colour department, while games such as Resident Evil and SSBM are far superior in general graphics.
Plot / storyline...
I'm pretty sure GTA was not meant to have a proper storyline, it is derived from a car game that has some very innovative features, that is why it is so popular. Wind Wakers storyline was poor, it was very poor. The so called twists could probably be worked out before you even start playing the game. There was no depth, or intricate themes or anything, it was so bland and re-used. If you want a good, interesting storyline, play a Square game. Even if someone were to say that a storyline doesn't matter in WW, it did matter in the previous zelda games, and like you mentioned it is dry. I would have preferred to have versed wave after wave of enemies (that are half decent, because all of them were push-overs in WW) than waste time listening to that woeful storyline. Kingdom Hearts is a good example of an adventure game with a good storyline.
Sound
The Sound 'sounds' better because the GC is an updated system, the N64 couldn't express Saria's song, which in many people's opinion is the best song in Oot, as well as it could have done because of the system's poor sound quality. However SSBM did do a good job with its remastered version of this song. The Wind Waker had no memorable tunes, I wasn't rushing off to a midi website to get my copy of the music. This just shows how unimportant and unimpowering it was. It was Truly forgettable.
Also, some of the sound effects were reused from previous games and were quite annoying.
THE BOAT
Who ever came up with this idea needs to be shot:
You had to constantly control the wind with the stupid addition of a conductor baton, which did i mention was very lame. The music it made sounded so off. If you over shot an Island because you were travelling fast or didn't see it because of the expansive stretches of blue sea them you had to change the wind again. You travel so slowly against the wind, and sailing with the mast down. It was only convenient for you to eat while sailing BECAUSE it took so long. The game enoucrages you to explore other islands yet all the optional islands are a complete waste of time going to, simply because it takes too long to travel and all you got was something crap like a joy pendant or a heart piece, I mean, why would you want to make an easy game even easier by getting more hearts? The world is just one island that was smash into little pieces and spread over an enormous map so it took the player ages to get to so the game seemed to take longer to pass. If I took the amount of time spent sailing and exploring and other useless side quests out, I could easily pass this game in a few hours, even if i had forgetten how to do everything.
Enemies
They all sucked, there was nothing at all hard about any of the monsters or bosses in this game.
Replay:
After I passed this game, it has collected dust, what a waste of money. I have not once had the urge to replay this game again
I have not really decided upon my personal favourite game of all time, I have games that I hold in higher ranks than others. Many of the Final Fantasy games are obviously loaded with effort when made, and I admire that, However I am annoyed when games make some slap dash attempt and it shows, these include most of EA games' games, starfox adventures (even worse than WW) and WW.
But for anyone who thinks otherwise, you can keep debating if you like." `Queztalcoatl from smashboards.
I don't agree with him that the game was poor (it is one of my favorites ever), but it just had alot of flaws. It could have easily beaten out OOT and LTTP if only Nintendo spend some more time on it.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 22, 2004, 06:27:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
Some more arguments: For me to throw out~Bill
Only one of the 3D Zelda games have given me enough dungeons...
I can play OOT for hours! The massive, diverse world! Forest/woods, large, breathtaking field, lake, desert, village, graveyard, volcano/mountain, another village, castle, river, waterfall, domain. So many towns! Kokiri Forest, Kakariko Village, Goron City, Gerudo's Fortress, Hyrule Castle Market, Zora's Domain, etc. So many places with so much to do! WW had what? Outset and Windfall... I can play OOT for hours, just walking around. tWW is just dominated with tedium.
So a large open field with nothing in it but a few twiggy trees is breath-taking? Wow...And don't Dragon Roost Island and Forest Haven count as "towns"? Yes, they do...And Sailing > walking
THESE WERE NOT TAKEN FROM ME, BUT FROM SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!!!! I agree with him!
Your first point on popularity: It is a leech game. It is leeching off the success of its predecessors and is gaining the support mainly from the fanboys.
Um, no...Then you could say that OoT was leeching off the success of LttP...If a previous game is great, people believe the next one is great(which has only been true for Zelda, imo)...Let's here it for logic! </sarcasm>
There is so much in (SSBM), and such close attention to detail, that this game easily gave me many hours of fun, after more than a year of having the system I still play it. Unlike the WW.
Good job comparing playing time between a MULTIPLAYER and a SINGLE PLAYER game...
2. Compared to Ocarina...
Other than the bright colours, WW has nothing over Oot.
LOL, ok
3. Graphics
I had no prejudice against cel-shading before playing this game, I hadn't seen any games with it used yet. But after playing WW, I thoroughly dislike cel-shading. There is this stupid annoying blob of hair that looks like crap, once i noticed, i couldn't stob noticing it. It looks completely rubbish.
Being a graphics whore is a psychological thing...
Everything is just an outline with a fill effect, someone could make this game in flash.
You couldn't be more wrong...The "toon-shading" is an extra texture over 3d polygons...Get your info right, please...
If you want to see facial expressions, play Final Fantasy X, there may be a slight jittering problem (not as an advanced system) but it is clearly using the capabilities of a facial expression engine.
The in-game? Garbage...And FMV doesn't count...
In WW, all that was offered were 2 or 3 different facial expressions, one angry one sad one normal, and maybe 1 or 2 others that weren't that powerful enough to make me remember it. And they didn't even ease into each other, the expression just changed like his face was a powerpoint presentation.
You must not have been paying attention while playing at all...
There are without a doubt games with better graphical features, Kingdom Hearts easily beats any game in the colour department, while games such as Resident Evil and SSBM are far superior in general graphics.
More towards the graphics whore argument? I think so...
Plot / storyline...
I'm pretty sure GTA was not meant to have a proper storyline, it is derived from a car game that has some very innovative features, that is why it is so popular. Wind Wakers storyline was poor, it was very poor. The so called twists could probably be worked out before you even start playing the game. There was no depth, or intricate themes or anything, it was so bland and re-used. If you want a good, interesting storyline, play a Square game. Even if someone were to say that a storyline doesn't matter in WW, it did matter in the previous zelda games, and like you mentioned it is dry. I would have preferred to have versed wave after wave of enemies (that are half decent, because all of them were push-overs in WW) than waste time listening to that woeful storyline. Kingdom Hearts is a good example of an adventure game with a good storyline.
Oh please...Zelda has never had a super intricate storyline, and Wind Waker has had the best one in terms of it...
Sound
The Sound 'sounds' better because the GC is an updated system, the N64 couldn't express Saria's song, which in many people's opinion is the best song in Oot, as well as it could have done because of the system's poor sound quality. However SSBM did do a good job with its remastered version of this song. The Wind Waker had no memorable tunes, I wasn't rushing off to a midi website to get my copy of the music. This just shows how unimportant and unimpowering it was. It was Truly forgettable.
Ocean sailing song, Forest Haven, Outset, DRAGON ****ING ROOST ISLAND!...Don't give me this bullcrap...
Also, some of the sound effects were reused from previous games and were quite annoying.
That's nostalgia factor, duh
THE BOAT
Who ever came up with this idea needs to be shot:
You had to constantly control the wind with the stupid addition of a conductor baton, which did i mention was very lame. The music it made sounded so off. If you over shot an Island because you were travelling fast or didn't see it because of the expansive stretches of blue sea them you had to change the wind again.
WOW GUESS WHAT!? THAT'S HOW THE WIND WORKS! </SHOCK!>
You travel so slowly against the wind, and sailing with the mast down. It was only convenient for you to eat while sailing BECAUSE it took so long.
Yeah, going against a force slows you down...Would it make ANY sense for you to go the same speed going with and against the wind? Don't be so stupid...
The game enoucrages you to explore other islands yet all the optional islands are a complete waste of time going to, simply because it takes too long to travel and all you got was something crap like a joy pendant or a heart piece, I mean, why would you want to make an easy game even easier by getting more hearts?
Half the fun in Zelda games is collecting everything there is to find...Noone is forcing you to find the stuff, so stop complaining about it!
edit: And this is more proof that you've never played a Zelda game before OoT...
Enemies
They all sucked, there was nothing at all hard about any of the monsters or bosses in this game.
There haven't been any hard bosses in a Zelda game since AoL...
Replay:
After I passed this game, it has collected dust, what a waste of money. I have not once had the urge to replay this game again
I've played through the game 5 times since it was released, and it gets better every time...
Many of the Final Fantasy games are obviously loaded with effort when made, and I admire that...
This statement here knocks out all your credibility...Loaded with effort! Bah! Loaded with FMV, and nothing more...(Square guy: Let's make FFX-2, and fill the game with crap!)
But for anyone who thinks otherwise, you can keep debating if you like."
*See above* It really makes me wonder when you even started playing games...
Post by: odifiend on February 22, 2004, 06:31:51 AM
Like Queztacoatl, I felt ripped off with the facial expressions. Miyamoto-san told us the shift in style was to better convey emotion. I was already cynical because there are photorealistic games that do convey emotion well, and then they did give rapid shifts in faces, as opposed to facial expressions.
The game is better than alot of crap on the market, but it is by no means the best game on the GCN or in the Zelda series. On this board, I read a post that began something like "the game was perfect except that it has this and this and this wrong with it."-i.e. not perfect. I agree with Quez, that this game leeched off of previous successes (and the desperate need of a well-known game on the GCN).
For thoses of you with fire in your eyes, this is my opinion. Bill defines it somewhere in here
. Hey Bill, the amoeba boss from OoT was pretty hard.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 22, 2004, 06:38:40 AM
(LttP and Link's Awakening are the best Zelda games)
Post by: thecubedcanuck on February 22, 2004, 06:58:06 AM
Post by: odifiend on February 22, 2004, 07:08:23 AM
What makes your favorite Zelda game your favorite, you guys? What are you basing the OoT bashing and the WW praising (and the reverse) off of?
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 22, 2004, 07:09:40 AM
Quote
Your first point on popularity: It is a leech game. It is leeching off the success of its predecessors and is gaining the support mainly from the fanboys.
And then you go into raves about your beloved Final Fantasy? The earlier SNES FF games are magnificent, and then look at the current ones and they are absolute garbage. Effort? Where? They may have put effort into the FMVs but that's not even a game! You're supposed to PLAY a videogame not WATCH it! But Square doesn't have to put a lot of effort into it! Why? Because they sell the way they are.. Why? Because of the success of the earlier games. (namely FF7 which is NOT the best of the series.)
I consider the most recent Final Fantasies leech games.......NOT Zelda.
oh. WW had the most memorable and amazing music I have EVER heard. Yes, it's a matter of preference, but to think that the music is garbage is just showing that you went into the game looking for things to complain about, and your blatant fanboy-ism got your way of experiencing ART. Either that or you had a wedge of cheese lodged in your ears. Most likely both.
And about them reusing tunes...no they didn't reuse the songs. They just used familiar lines from old songs to create a feeling of nostalagia. How bout you play a Zelda game before OoT? The you'll notice that they've been doing this form the start. Hell, square has been using the exact same music is their FF games form the start, The intro and (winning) battle theme that you may remember was in the ORIGINAL and they keep using it.
When was the story line EVER important in a Zelda game? No, WW had a MUCH better story than OoT. Link had a family, and part of that was taken away from him and he set off on a big ol adventure to save his sister. Right from the start there's more story than the other Zelda games.
(<3 Link's Awakening. That game is just FUN. (except for those freakin orbs.......)
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 22, 2004, 07:14:46 AM
And I'm far from bashing OoT...I just think that WW is better...If you want a comparison, here's my top list of games...
1. LttP
2. Link's Awakening
3. Wind Waker
4. Terranigma
5. Ocarina of Time
6. Gunstar Heroes
etc...etc...
Post by: odifiend on February 22, 2004, 07:17:14 AM
Relative Translation: "You can't argue with fun factor."
EDIT: KN, I disagree with WW's story being better. OoT is based off the formula for a tale of an epic hero that has been around for millenia. While I can appreciate, WW Link having his sister stolen (accidentally), I think it can't beat the idea of destiny and the outcast of the world saving the world that is indifferent to him. OoT is the first Zelda in the chronological telling and I think it is a great starter for the Zelda myth. But again it boils down to opinion.
Post by: Smashman on February 22, 2004, 09:58:11 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 22, 2004, 10:09:19 AM
(And I'll just add that in at least 95% of the cases, the only reason that those pollers like OoT more than WW is because of the graphics, handsdown)
Post by: odifiend on February 22, 2004, 10:13:04 AM
. I've played them all except Link's Awakening and since its Bill's second favorite sounds like I need to find it. Edit: Bad! THat was some FUBAR.
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 22, 2004, 10:22:16 AM
Quote
(And I'll just add that in at least 95% of the cases, the only reason that those pollers like OoT more than WW is because of the graphics, handsdown)
Actually, I'd warrant it would be because Wind Waker became boring having to sail around the gigantic overworld to tiny little specks of island- this was amplified when you not only had to search for the Triforce pieces, but the Triforce charts to -find- the Triforce pieces. The game also didn't challenge you, which left a lot to be desired. Wind Waker is still one of the best games I've ever played, if only for the atmosphere, but I think both Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are the better games hands down.
Post by: Smashman on February 22, 2004, 10:30:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
You're asking the ultimate Zelda fan if he's played every Zelda game?
(And I'll just add that in at least 95% of the cases, the only reason that those pollers like OoT more than WW is because of the graphics, handsdown)
Well, OK... I think I will just shut my mouth then...... :runs off:
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 22, 2004, 10:32:22 AM
Post by: Jale on February 22, 2004, 10:36:08 AM
Post by: Smashman on February 22, 2004, 10:51:24 AM
AoL=8/10
LTTP=10/10
OOT=10/10
MM=9/10
WW=8.5/10
Post by: Jale on February 22, 2004, 11:09:40 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 22, 2004, 11:50:40 AM
LoZ - 9.5/10
AoL - 8.5/10
LttP - 10/10
LA - 10/10
OoT - 9.75/10
MM - 8/10
OoA/OoS - 9.75/10
WW - 10/10
(Oh, and Jale, just because you don't know what is going on doesn't mean the rest of us don't...
)
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 22, 2004, 02:57:05 PM
Quote
You prefer WW the most of the three Zelda games
I bolderated the key words. Were you even aware that there are ones before that?
Post by: Smashman on February 22, 2004, 02:57:29 PM
Final arguments from me:
"*Digs up catalogue of tWW posts*
Heh. I posted this at another forum recently, and it sums up my feelings pretty nicely:
I am of the opinion that tWW is inferior to most of the other Zelda games in every way...
I am not against change... what I am against is a completely different feel to the game. Oh, and I also tend to dislike bad games.
The Wind Waker, although it is quite good, has many, many problems.
First off, the music. The music sucks ass, for the most part. There isn't a single piece of background music from the game that I care for, and I should know, I have an MP3 of every piece of music. The only good parts of the music are one-time cinematic things, like when the Triforce of Wisdom is completed, or the Triforce of Courage.
The game is as easy as it can possibly get without actually having some sort of invincibility codes and walkthrough for the dungeons. It is a sad thing when the most dangerous enemy in the game is a giant pig found in the beginning village. It does more damage then ANYTHING else in the game.
Guess what? There was almost a total lack of overworld exploration, and that has always been one of, if not THE most important part of the Zelda series. Guess which island had the biggest non-dungeon area? OUTSET. OUTSET, where you START the damned game.
And don't spout out some ridiculous nonsense about how there are tons of cool islands... there were only about 2 minor islands in the game that were interesting in the least, and even then they were only interesting for a few moments.
Instead of having ONE, and ONLY one island in each square, they should have a lot more of them, and spread them out more naturally. It is positively unnatural for the islands to be spaced out like that, and it feels that way in the game.
Next up: The items. Let me think... there was one... ONE new item in the game. Everything else was either totally worthless (the Hero's Mask) or it has been used before in other Zelda games. That is PATHETIC. What happened to the good old days of Zelda? LttP introduced tons and tons of new items, and even LA managed to come up with some new ones. OoT had several new items.
And the Oracle games had the most inventive and imagination items of all the games, aside from LttP.
But then comes tWW, the inferior dissapointing Wind Waker. With one new item.
Another thing. All the nessecary items, items you need to beat the game, are practically handed to you. Take Dragon Roost Isaldn for example. Medli givs you the bottle... in LttP, you would have had to explore around a bit and find an treasure chest with an item hidden in a recess somewhere, or something.
Or even worse, the Fire and Ice Arrows. You are given BOTH at the SAME time.
The only items that are frustarting to get (frustrating, not hard... there's a difference) are WORTHLESS. WORTHLESS. It should either be the other way around, or they should have a good balance.
I remember back in games like LttP or LA, they had items like the Ice Rod just hidden in out-of-the way caves. Ever since OoT though, the only things hidden in random caves are rupees. It's rare to even find a HEART piece somewhere like that.
The Zelda magic, the sens eof exploration and adventure that has characterized the Zelda series for so long is completely and totally absent from the disgrace that is the Wind Waker.
And before any of you fools accuse me of hating it because of the graphics or some suchu thing... the celshaded graphics were the best part of the game. The ONLY part of the game I EVER want to see in another Zelda game.
Now, I want to add something... Up until you rescue Aryll, the game rocks. it lives up to the Zelda name. However, then the game's momentum and fun just... halts. It is so incredibly obvious that they were taking their time with the game up until then, perfecting it, but then they started rushing it." `lord-of-shadow, ZU.
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 22, 2004, 03:27:33 PM
Quote
The Wind Waker, although it is quite good, has many, many problems.
First off, the music. The music sucks ass, for the most part. There isn't a single piece of background music from the game that I care for, and I should know, I have an MP3 of every piece of music. The only good parts of the music are one-time cinematic things, like when the Triforce of Wisdom is completed, or the Triforce of Courage.
I suppose this is all opinion (WRONG OPINION ^_^). But if you want's people to take you seriously don't use vulgarities.
The game is as easy as it can possibly get without actually having some sort of invincibility codes and walkthrough for the dungeons. It is a sad thing when the most dangerous enemy in the game is a giant pig found in the beginning village. It does more damage then ANYTHING else in the game.
and....? Hard does not equal fun. Sure, a totally easy game won't be as fun, but WW had enough challenge to keep you occupied, no? And there are the puzzles too....
Guess what? There was almost a total lack of overworld exploration, and that has always been one of, if not THE most important part of the Zelda series. Guess which island had the biggest non-dungeon area? OUTSET. OUTSET, where you START the damned game.
And OoT's biggest explorable area was HYRULE. Where you start the damn game! -___- No overworld exploration?! huge ocean/ HUGE OCEAN?! There's is so much wrong with that parapraph......
And don't spout out some ridiculous nonsense about how there are tons of cool islands... there were only about 2 minor islands in the game that were interesting in the least, and even then they were only interesting for a few moments.
but you had to find the islands, and you obviously felt the urge to find them all. If you hadn't, then you don't have the right to argue......
Instead of having ONE, and ONLY one island in each square, they should have a lot more of them, and spread them out more naturally. It is positively unnatural for the islands to be spaced out like that, and it feels that way in the game.
I suppose you could say that. but I feel that the plain vastness of the great sea fixed that, and made it not feel so much like a grid.
Next up: The items. Let me think... there was one... ONE new item in the game. Everything else was either totally worthless (the Hero's Mask) or it has been used before in other Zelda games. That is PATHETIC. What happened to the good old days of Zelda? LttP introduced tons and tons of new items, and even LA managed to come up with some new ones. OoT had several new items.
And the Oracle games had the most inventive and imagination items of all the games, aside from LttP.
But then comes tWW, the inferior dissapointing Wind Waker. With one new item.
but those games took place in different places! WW and OoT took place in the same area, so you would assume that the same items would be there.........
Another thing. All the nessecary items, items you need to beat the game, are practically handed to you. Take Dragon Roost Isaldn for example. Medli givs you the bottle... in LttP, you would have had to explore around a bit and find an treasure chest with an item hidden in a recess somewhere, or something.
More character interaction......adds to the game, in my opinion.
Or even worse, the Fire and Ice Arrows. You are given BOTH at the SAME time.
OMG, and can you believe that you get a pictograph AND film AT THE SAME TIME?!
The only items that are frustarting to get (frustrating, not hard... there's a difference) are WORTHLESS. WORTHLESS. It should either be the other way around, or they should have a good balance.
worhless for you, maybe, it's a goal for alot of people to collect everything. It's not worthless to them. And every item has a worth.
I remember back in games like LttP or LA, they had items like the Ice Rod just hidden in out-of-the way caves. Ever since OoT though, the only things hidden in random caves are rupees. It's rare to even find a HEART piece somewhere like that.
The Zelda magic, the sens eof exploration and adventure that has characterized the Zelda series for so long is completely and totally absent from the disgrace that is the Wind Waker.
WW was the most magical yet. It was filled with emotion and awe, and the Great Sea was just stunning. You explored the Great Sea, remember? The best part? It get's better every time you play it. (and the graphix certainly do add to the "Zelda Magic.")
And before any of you fools accuse me of hating it because of the graphics or some suchu thing... the celshaded graphics were the best part of the game. The ONLY part of the game I EVER want to see in another Zelda game.
Now, I want to add something... Up until you rescue Aryll, the game rocks. it lives up to the Zelda name. However, then the game's momentum and fun just... halts. It is so incredibly obvious that they were taking their time with the game up until then, perfecting it, but then they started rushing it." `lord-of-shadow, ZU.
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 22, 2004, 04:00:00 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 22, 2004, 04:34:19 PM
See, as i do agree the enemies were too easy, I died form other things (falling into that goddammed lava in dragon roost) and i did feel as if i was in danger. It may be because I suck, or it could be because I always picture things worse than they will be. (that didn't come out right.....I'm always scared to go into battle, but then the battle turns out easy. That puts me in a sense of danger.)
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 22, 2004, 04:39:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Ugh, I don't see how anybody could be happy with Wind Waker's level of difficulty- it didn't give me a challenge at all, I never felt like I was in danger. It got boring because I knew I'd never die.
I really don't feel like tearing apart Smashman's book again, so I just say that I agree with KN... ^_^
And I was happy with WW's difficulty because it hasn't changed since LttP...It's ALWAYS <---It's bold, so it's important! been an easy series since then...Stop giving me this difficulty bullcrap!
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 22, 2004, 04:41:34 PM
I just don't see how anyone was content with its level of difficulty. I think if Nintendo had upped the amount of damage Link takes, made the overworld smaller or the islands bigger, and replaced the Rare-esque treasure hunt with some actual dungeons, the game just might have been perfect.
Post by: Smashman on February 23, 2004, 10:27:28 AM
Arguing is fun!
Post by: KnowsNothing on February 23, 2004, 11:58:18 AM
Quote
KnowsNothing- in OOT, you start in Kokiri Forest
You said that there wsn't enough exploration in WW. I was merely pointing out that in OoT you explore this large chunk of land, while in WW you have a vast ocean to explore. And yes, it was a one island grid thinger-bop, but that's when you look at the map, when you're out on the ocean do you see the lines? I think the sheer size of the Great Sea stops it from feeling like a grid.
Quote
Character interaction adds to the game. That is crap...
So it would be better without it? I don't see how you can play a Zelda game and NOT have character interaction. Sure, Link is the one hero against the many evils, but who is the leader of this evil? Ganondorf. Who is a character. With whom Link interacts. So are you saying that OoT would be just as good if it didn't have Saria or Sheik? Saria adds to one of the most emotional parts of OoT.......
Quote
it is only worthy to collect everything if the item is worthy!
Worthy of what, may I ask? Worthy of YOU? Obviously alot of people thought they were "worthy" because they spent hours collecting them. I suppose it's a relative thing.
Quote
The Deku Nuts and Deku Stick were worthless....
Well, I'd like to see you get past the Deku Tree without them..............
And no, I don't think arguing is fun ( i don't consider this arguing though.....more of debating), especially this because it's such a worn out and overused argument. We're all really tired of it, but for some reason I can't let it go. Probably should, though.........
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2004, 12:12:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothingQuote
KnowsNothing- in OOT, you start in Kokiri Forest
You said that there wsn't enough exploration in WW. I was merely pointing out that in OoT you explore this large chunk of land, while in WW you have a vast ocean to explore. And yes, it was a one island grid thinger-bop, but that's when you look at the map, when you're out on the ocean do you see the lines? I think the sheer size of the Great Sea stops it from feeling like a grid.
Indeed it does...In fact, I never realized that there was an island in every square until I had gotten most of my map pieces...Quote
Character interaction adds to the game. That is crap...
So it would be better without it? I don't see how you can play a Zelda game and NOT have character interaction. Sure, Link is the one hero against the many evils, but who is the leader of this evil? Ganondorf. Who is a character. With whom Link interacts. So are you saying that OoT would be just as good if it didn't have Saria or Sheik? Saria adds to one of the most emotional parts of OoT.......
LOL! Dude, then how can you like Final Fantasy? Or any RPG for that matter? Stop contradicting yourself...Quote
it is only worthy to collect everything if the item is worthy!
Worthy of what, may I ask? Worthy of YOU? Obviously alot of people thought they were "worthy" because they spent hours collecting them. I suppose it's a relative thing.
Another craptastic quote...The term "worthy" is relative...Not to mention the fact that collecting everything in a Zelda game is what TRUE Zelda gamers do...Quote
The Deku Nuts and Deku Stick were worthless....
Well, I'd like to see you get past the Deku Tree without them..............
And no, I don't think arguing is fun ( i don't consider this arguing though.....more of debating), especially this because it's such a worn out and overused argument. We're all really tired of it, but for some reason I can't let it go. Probably should, though.........
Nah, this is more arguing now...Nitpicking over such silly things doesn't even classify as debating...
Post by: Smashman on February 23, 2004, 12:19:37 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 23, 2004, 12:19:46 PM
Quote
OoT had big, large and interesting places to explore. What made you actually WANT to explore in WW?
I think Wind Waker had just as many places to explore, they were just farther apart. As for incentive for exploration, I think it comes down to personal opinion. Even though I did get a little tired of sailing everywhere, I voluntarily mapped out every single square in the game- I've been enamoured with the ocean my whole life (I lived on an island for a large part of it), and and if anything I loved Wind Waker's sense of vastness. Personally I wouldn't mind just as much sailing in Wind Waker 2, as long as it has much larger land masses to snoop around, as well.
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2004, 01:01:50 PM
Post by: Smashman on February 23, 2004, 02:20:35 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 23, 2004, 02:45:34 PM
Post by: DrZoidberg on February 23, 2004, 02:49:29 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on February 23, 2004, 04:20:48 PM
Post by: DarkSyphor on February 23, 2004, 09:18:19 PM
well lets see here for OoT
The graphics are bad
songs you cant complain
exploration is small for the fact is that there was only 20 places to explore with adding 9 stages
life is short cause any one can clock it in one day or two
The WW is better
Graphics is AWSOME
songs are bad only the songs you play are alright
exploration is humogas for the fact one square takes along time to see everything, you could say that the stages were small but you got to remeber that the game was aimed for kids but in the end there are 53 places to explore
life is long for the exploration is huge and its hard to clock it in one day because its impossible
In the end i like WW for the fact its fun to play
did i give a differant view of the game cause all of this stuff is true.
Dr Zoidberg happy
Post by: odifiend on February 24, 2004, 10:57:43 AM
Quote
Another thing. All the nessecary items, items you need to beat the game, are practically handed to you. Take Dragon Roost Isaldn for example. Medli givs you the bottle... in LttP, you would have had to explore around a bit and find an treasure chest with an item hidden in a recess somewhere, or something.
More character interaction......adds to the game, in my opinion.
Then all the derisive stuff of Smashman.
That is weak. Nintendo did take dungeons out of the game so they had to have people give you what you should have earned. When the Great Fairy just gave me the fire and ice arrows, I felt ripped off. I love those weapons/addons and I don't think you should get two weapons that cool and important at the same time, EVER. I mean in Zelda you start off with nothing but your boots and usually you acquire items one by one-it's part of the game.
Smashman, it's not OoT because its W-i-n-d W-a-k-e-r.
Seriously though WW is a different experience and the fact that we're arguing/debating proves how different it is and differientiates who appreciated the differences and who...uh... not so much. Hope WW2 appeals to us all!
Post by: Smashman on February 26, 2004, 12:28:01 PM
If only Nintendo could have spent a little more time on WW, it would have blown OOT away!
Post by: Bill Aurion on February 26, 2004, 12:51:40 PM
Post by: Jale on February 27, 2004, 10:04:27 AM
Post by: Smashman on March 01, 2004, 09:26:25 AM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 01, 2004, 05:05:55 PM
but I'd rather have more things to do outside of the dungeons then more dungeons. I don't know about ya'll but when ever I solve a sidequest it makes the adventure worth while, like zelda should be since it is an adventure title.
Post by: Jale on March 02, 2004, 08:11:35 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 02, 2004, 10:22:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jale
It isn't an adventure without the overworld. If it had just the dungeons it would be a boring game, it's the adventuring in between the dungeons that really makes it worthwhile.
Amen...And that's the reason I loved WW so much even with the lack of dungeons...
Post by: Smashman on March 03, 2004, 02:44:26 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 03, 2004, 02:59:38 PM
ahem..sorry i'm to use to starting fights.
True but in bills defense, it seems like it makes more of a complete games when its an adventure just to get to the dungeon. (ie. talking to people, finding which way to go, solving riddles, and checkin out the sidequests)
Post by: The Omen on March 03, 2004, 03:12:44 PM
On to the sailing-it does get tedious. But i'd love if you traveled far and actually found huge islands to explore. Then the sailing wouldn't be so ... slow. What i'm saying is, if there were huge islands, the sailing itself would lead to great discoverys instead of treasure hunting and "look, i got 50 rupees i dont need." Then, with big lands to explore, it would be a buffer between the sailing sequences. Too many times, i went to an island, only to get what i needed in 5 minutes, then had to sail 5 minutes to do the same thing. And yes, WW did need about 2 more dungeons. Hopefully, WW2 will include bigger worlds to explore and discover, more vital items to discover, and about 8 dungeons.
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 03, 2004, 03:30:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
Pfff... the original LOZ, AOL, and LTTP had tons of dungeons. Don't make excuses to defend WW when you know Nintendo rushed it...
You must have been in such a rush to attack Wind Waker that you didn't read my post...
"Amen...And that's the reason I loved WW so much even with the lack of dungeons..."
Try to read a little more carefully next time before posting, k?...
Post by: Don'tHate742 on March 03, 2004, 03:36:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
I just re-started WW this week because i hadn't played in a few months, and frankly, i'd forgot what i was supposed to be doing. Anyway, i like OoT better, and i don't know why. Just the feeling is different. Thats not to say WW has let me down, but OoT is tough competition. I haven't made a final decision yet.
On to the sailing-it does get tedious. But i'd love if you traveled far and actually found huge islands to explore. Then the sailing wouldn't be so ... slow. What i'm saying is, if there were huge islands, the sailing itself would lead to great discoverys instead of treasure hunting and "look, i got 50 rupees i dont need." Then, with big lands to explore, it would be a buffer between the sailing sequences. Too many times, i went to an island, only to get what i needed in 5 minutes, then had to sail 5 minutes to do the same thing. And yes, WW did need about 2 more dungeons. Hopefully, WW2 will include bigger worlds to explore and discover, more vital items to discover, and about 8 dungeons.
I totally agree. I mean why is one of the biggest Islands the one that you start at? And its not even that big, takes about 1 minute to run across the island....WHAT KIND OF ISLAND IS THAT? more like a sand bar
Post by: Jale on March 04, 2004, 07:57:01 AM
Post by: Smashman on March 04, 2004, 11:42:06 AM
Bill, you say too many dungeons would be overkill, and that you didn't mind WW not having alot of dungeons, and many other of WW's obvious flaws. Personally, I think you set your expectations too low (not that it is a bad thing). You say you have been playing games for a long time, so you MUST have a dream of the 'perfect' game in your head...
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 04, 2004, 11:49:05 AM
And never did I say WW was perfect, but it's close...Just a few more dungeons, a couple more sidequests, and it will be...
Post by: Smashman on March 05, 2004, 01:18:56 AM
Post by: DarkSyphor on March 19, 2004, 08:58:48 PM
there should be a connection in the next Sequal about them.
It would be the Perfect game
if any of you disagree then it would be Perfect with just more dungeons and side quest without the connection
Post by: DrZoidberg on March 19, 2004, 11:16:58 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 20, 2004, 04:58:42 AM
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on March 20, 2004, 06:27:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DrZoidberg
oh Reginold..... I DISAGREE!
Family Guy?
Post by: Smashman on March 20, 2004, 11:04:08 AM
Post by: ghostVi on March 25, 2004, 08:41:18 AM
Again It's a great entry in the Zelda universe, go and get it if you still don't own it already.ps: the ocean is hilarious
Post by: evil intentions on March 30, 2004, 02:33:30 PM
Shoot me if I'm wrong but, aren't you going a little bit overboard there, Smashman?
Post by: odifiend on March 30, 2004, 04:35:18 PM
Post by: slacker on March 30, 2004, 06:30:23 PM
Post by: evil intentions on March 31, 2004, 03:54:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
^ was that a pun on the ocean? lol. overboard!
I didn't even notice that!
I'm just so clever that I can write things without realizing it.
Post by: Jale on April 01, 2004, 07:54:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: slacker
I rate this as one of the worst Zeldas, but with that said, it is a good game that beats most other games out there.
I don't think this is one of the worst Zeldas but i think it isnt one of the best either. I agree that it is better than most games out there. Just because a diamond is flawed it is still better than a zirconia.
Post by: Smashman on April 02, 2004, 01:12:07 AM
Post by: evil intentions on April 02, 2004, 06:35:50 PM
Post by: Smashman on April 13, 2004, 07:58:23 AM
Sometimes I think you guys are just biased towards GC...
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 13, 2004, 11:13:24 AM
LOL! GameFAQs is the place to go for videogame vets!
I'm biased towards the better and more enveloping game...And guess what? A lot of people say Halo is the best game of all time...Does that mean anything? No...
On the otherhand, YOU are the one who criticizes every minute detail of WW, so don't be so hypocritical, please...
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 01:00:05 PM
Quote
Sometimes I think you guys are just biased towards GC...
So we have some new type of sub-fanboy, eh? One that not only is biased towards a company, but a specific console as well? Why would Bill love the Gamecube at hate the N64? It doesn't make any sense! I agree that OoT is easily the better game of the two, but console biasedness is not the reason others disagree.
Post by: odifiend on April 13, 2004, 01:11:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clickerQuote
Sometimes I think you guys are just biased towards GC...
So we have some new type of sub-fanboy, eh? One that not only is biased towards a company, but a specific console as well? Why would Bill love the Gamecube at hate the N64? It doesn't make any sense! I agree that OoT is easily the better game of the two, but console biasedness is not the reason others disagree.
I like that plug at the end MC.
Honestly guys Degustibus Non est Disputandem
Smashman you'll never convince Bill that he should like OoT better and vice versa. Let this thread die already.
Post by: Smashman on April 13, 2004, 02:04:33 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 13, 2004, 03:36:35 PM
And my role in this topic was to hold my opinion and to protect Wind Waker, not to force you guys to like it more than OoT...
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 05:08:12 PM
Post by: Link_Up on April 14, 2004, 12:44:57 AM
They should be as big as those of Oot and MM, but with the detail of WW.
Not too many items either, though more empty bottles are always welcome. Lots of land, and just lake Hylia wich you have to cross with a boat to get to the desert (and the Spirit Temple, that HAS to be in the next Zelda). You should start with Epona, or some other horse, and later you should get the choise to call a dragon as well. Pegasus boots should make a comeback, and just as mentioned before simply equip and charge up your sword to dash.
Post by: Smashman on April 14, 2004, 11:49:26 AM
Post by: evil intentions on April 17, 2004, 08:42:33 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 17, 2004, 09:19:17 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 17, 2004, 03:31:36 PM
- Grey Ninja
Post by: Smashman on April 18, 2004, 05:32:27 AM
Or, they could just port LTTP to 3D. lol.
Post by: evil intentions on April 18, 2004, 10:46:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
You don't want that many dungeons, or the game will drag on and people will complain that Nintendo just added the extra dungeons without making them interesting just as a cheap way to pretend to be listening to their fans while they really sit back in a banana chair eating eggs humming "Yellow" by Coldplay and twidling their hair into little knots that won't come out for a while. And then they'll complain that it's cel-shaded.
- Grey Ninja
Grey Ninja?
Post by: Mumei on July 10, 2004, 09:29:14 AM
The sailing also felt forced, as though they added it in to make the game longer. Take out the sailing and the game's length drops drastically. The sailing was rather boring as well; I would leave the room for 3 or 4 minutes and get online while I waited to arrive at my destination.
The combat was also far too easy. There were very few enemies that could cause more than 1/2 a heart of damage and many could only cause 1/4 a heart of damage. I wanted to fight an enemy that could knock off 5 hearts in one blow, make the game challenging. So my biggest problems with The Wind Waker is the fact that it was far too easy and the dungeon's just weren't as good as ALttP's, OoT's or MM's.
To the person above me who said something about porting ALttP into 3-D... In some ways, OoT was a bit of a rehash of ALttP as far as enemies, the entire theme, and many of the items go. And ALttP had 13 dungeons, all of which were incredible.
Post by: Link_Up on July 11, 2004, 12:47:52 AM
Yes, A Link to the Past is the best game ever for the Snes, the graphics rock, even today, and the Light / Dark world is a very original feature, BUT i found 11 (or was it more?) dungeons just a little bit too much. After completing the Marsh dungeon in the dark world I had the feeling: "about time i get to kick Ganon's butt", but that's just me, I guess.
And about making a 3d remake, I say the idea is very nice, but I dunno if nintendo can make the game again in 3d. Sure, the new Zelda proves they can make beatiful games today, but I think they dont want to make another Link to the Past, they never made a remake of an old game did they? Just new games referring to old games.
Post by: Mumei on July 11, 2004, 08:12:18 AM
Post by: Smashman on July 11, 2004, 02:01:40 PM
Please, prove this? Just because there are some whiners who don't like WW because of its graphics, doesn't mean that that is the only reason the majority like OOT better.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 11, 2004, 02:22:52 PM
But the graphics argument really does seem to be the case...Of course, 95% is a pretty inflated number...I would assume that the casual gamer would like OoT more due to graphical content and that most HARDCORE gamers that liked OoT more did so due to actual game content...Casual gamers exceed hardcore gamers, so you do the math...
Post by: Mumei on July 11, 2004, 05:55:20 PM
Post by: evil intentions on July 13, 2004, 08:00:18 PM
OoT was hard for me because when I played it I was a lot younger. When I play it now, it's just as easy as WW.
Post by: Link_Up on July 13, 2004, 11:06:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mumei
Um... Nintendo makes remakes of old games all the time. That is how they milk the GBA cash cow. Or maybe you meant a real remake, where everything is changed?
Yup, I meant REAL remakes, like a 3d version of AlttP. I guess what you are referring to are games like Mario bros. 1,2&3 being brought to the GBA. If that is the case, that's not remaking a game, it's porting the game. Or you should call the added feature of Mario making comments a remake...
Not that I mind Nintendo porting old classics to a modern system, I like it, it gives new gamers a look at what old games where like (WAY better than most of the crap today...) and gives older gamers like Bill and me a chance to play old long-lost classics again. I'm thinking about buying Exitebike myself, can't remember where i put the NES-cartridge...
Post by: Mumei on July 14, 2004, 02:03:15 AM
Okay, so it's a stretch, but you can deal with it
. And to mouse_clicker:
Quote
A game's quality is entirely subjective
Unless you are talking about Big Rigs
. A winner is you!
Post by: Smashman on July 14, 2004, 12:24:12 PM
Well, I suppose you're right. However, if Wind Waker had realistic graphics I still feel people would still choose OoT over WW.
Post by: Mumei on July 14, 2004, 01:04:48 PM
Of course there are the idiotic fanboys who say, "OMG teh graphix is teh kiddie!!!" <-- make that stupider and have even worse grammar, but they are idiots.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 14, 2004, 01:17:23 PM
Half-right:
Complaint from fans: too much sailing(rofl) & lack of dungeons(reasonable complaint)
Complaint from people who don't like the game: graphics
To outright hate the game because of just the sailing is unheard of...
Post by: Mumei on July 14, 2004, 01:45:15 PM
I guarantee you that the majority of the serious complaints will be about difficulty, sailing and the dungeons.
Post by: Smashman on July 14, 2004, 03:12:26 PM
OoT was flawless... You didn't ride Epona seemingly forever, and places were quite close together. Hyrule Field was not THAT large. Dungeons were all not TOO long, and not TOO short, and were of reasonable difficulty.
Post by: GoldShadow1 on July 14, 2004, 05:49:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: /-\rcadian_Xla\/e
Wind Waker would be one of my favourites. I dont think any of the zelda's would be in my top 5 maybe Ocarina Of Time and Wind Waker.
I congratulate you on your ability to completely contradict yourself / change your mind within a single sentence.
Post by: Berny on July 15, 2004, 06:48:18 AM
hahahhahahahahahhaha That is one of the funniest thing's I've ever read. ^_^
Post by: Mumei on July 15, 2004, 07:43:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
Sailing is both a major and minor flaw. It completely contains the Zelda magic if it is only for SO long, but after TOO long, it loses the Zelda magic completely, and becomes tedious. Thank god for the Ballad of Gales. Like I stated before, if the game had... mmm... say 4 more dungeons, I would dismiss the sailing flaw entirely.
OoT was flawless... You didn't ride Epona seemingly forever, and places were quite close together. Hyrule Field was not THAT large. Dungeons were all not TOO long, and not TOO short, and were of reasonable difficulty.
OoT wasn't not flawless:
The storyline was far too derivative; it was ALttP redone. The Light and Dark World being changed to the Young Link/Adult Link eras, collecting the three stones in OoT and collecting the pendants (I forgot what they were called) in ALttP before receiving the Master Sword, freeing the Sages/Maidens in both games; it was far, far too similar in terms of story.
And the games dungeons were quite easy. Any idiot can look at their minimap and see the room where they haven't been to and where the treasure chest is and go there.
The game is absolutely amazing, though and I would recommend it to anyone who is thinking about it... But it is not flawless.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 15, 2004, 07:47:02 AM
"And the games dungeons were quite easy. Any idiot can look at their minimap and see the room where they haven't been to and where the treasure chest is and go there."
Meh! It's been like that in every Zelda game except LttP, only because the map in LttP sucked miserably... >=(
Post by: Smashman on July 15, 2004, 11:05:01 AM
The storyline was far too derivative; it was ALttP redone. The Light and Dark World being changed to the Young Link/Adult Link eras, collecting the three stones in OoT and collecting the pendants (I forgot what they were called) in ALttP before receiving the Master Sword, freeing the Sages/Maidens in both games; it was far, far too similar in terms of story.
And the games dungeons were quite easy. Any idiot can look at their minimap and see the room where they haven't been to and where the treasure chest is and go there.
The game is absolutely amazing, though and I would recommend it to anyone who is thinking about it... But it is not flawless.
The storyline was similar to all other Zeldas, really... Link rises up every 100 or 1000 years to defeat Ganon. The Young Link/Adult Link were very different... You can only carry certain items as Young and Adult, and can't carry certain ones, also. The three stones in OoT was very much like the three pendants, as was collecting the Master Sword before saving the Sages.
But, OoT was about the transition from 2D to 3D. It is a timeless classic that I love more than any other game. I really don't think the fact it followed LttP on some things a FLAW, but just to connect it to other games.
Post by: Mumei on July 15, 2004, 03:13:05 PM
It followed ALttP on its basic structure, I wanted something new.
Post by: Jale on July 15, 2004, 11:49:17 PM
Post by: Mumei on July 16, 2004, 02:15:24 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 16, 2004, 04:37:55 AM
Post by: Mumei on July 16, 2004, 05:08:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
Oh, just so you know, Aonuma has said that OoT was MEANT to be similar to LttP...I see no wrong in mimicking a classic when it turned out so well...
Would you mind pulling up the interview, or where that came from? It isn't that I don't believe you, but I want to show it to someone >.>
Post by: Smashman on July 20, 2004, 02:02:01 PM
Please, stop trying to undermine one of the greatest games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2004, 04:50:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
OoT WAS meant to be very similar to OoT
Oh...
Post by: MysticGohan24 on July 20, 2004, 07:49:49 PM
Don't you mean " OOT was meant to be very similair to ALTTP- " ') ( . Y . )
something for your thoughts
Post by: Mumei on July 21, 2004, 07:18:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smashman
OoT WAS meant to be very similar to OoT- it was deliberate. It was supposed to be sort of a 3D version of LTTP, and I prefer OoT over LTTP by a hair.
Please, stop trying to undermine one of the greatest games.
It being one of the greatest games is purely subjective. There are many, many people who hate the game, yet love the other Zelda games - all I've said is that it has flaws that bring it down some, in my eyes. How am I "undermining" the game?
And I didn't argue against OoT being intentionally similar to ALttP - I asked if you could find it so that I could show someone else. I can't just tell them that some random person on the internet told me; that doesn't look credible at all. So I'm asking for a quote or the interview, if you have it.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on July 21, 2004, 08:39:30 AM
Post by: Mumei on July 21, 2004, 06:45:41 PM
?
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2004, 07:19:37 PM
Post by: Toadette on July 21, 2004, 07:26:51 PM
Post by: Jale on July 22, 2004, 03:56:08 AM
EVVVAAAARRRRR!
Think Golden Sun: THe lost age but with smaller continents and more islands in the middle sea.
Post by: Link_Up on July 22, 2004, 01:10:17 PM
). I mean, losing 1, count 'em, 1 heart when Ganondorf strikes a blow? No way, he's the biggest bad ass baddie of them all. i say 3 to 5 hearts with every blow! And how about using different items during the battle? You used the Light Arrows yourself in OoT, and had to do a part of the final battle without the Master Sword (damn! I though when i saw that).
Post by: Jale on July 22, 2004, 01:48:21 PM
'ZZZZINNNNNGGG!' I though
Post by: WesDawg on July 22, 2004, 04:39:25 PM
That being said, I don't quite get the difficulty debate. The first Zelda is tough IMO. The second also seemed challenging when I was a kid. But since then they haven't really been about giving you a crazy challenge in the sense that games like Mega Man did. They're not about being hard IMO. I think a lot of people think that OOT was really tough because it was sorta their first Zelda game in a sense. I remember being confused and lost in the Water Temple, but never frustrated. I don't think I died in the whole thing. I battled Gannon for like an hour at the end of the game cause I was too dumb to switch back to the Master Sword. But the mere fact that I could run around him that long and not die says something about that battle not being that tough either.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 22, 2004, 09:03:43 PM
Post by: Mumei on July 22, 2004, 11:00:25 PM
Post by: Cube_King on July 22, 2004, 11:10:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mumei
And I'd rather have that difficulty. What happened to Nintendo being able to make games that were at least somewhat challenging? That weren't so easy that a 5 year old could beat them?
I agree on the whole difficulty flaw. I dont think I can remember just one time when I got stuck at a boss or got killed by enemies. The axe man in OOT took off four hearts when he hits you just once, in WW most of the enemies only took off 1/4 heart per hit. Ganondorf(2nd fight) was as challenging as Bowser in Mario Sunshine.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 22, 2004, 11:48:04 PM
Quote
And I'd rather have that difficulty. What happened to Nintendo being able to make games that were at least somewhat challenging? That weren't so easy that a 5 year old could beat them?
Mumei, you have a bad habit of exaggerating- yes, Wind waker was easier than the other Zelda games, but saying it wasn't even somewhat challenging and that a 5 year old could beat it is just flaunting your ignorance.
Post by: DrZoidberg on July 23, 2004, 12:41:02 AM
Post by: Caillan on July 23, 2004, 02:19:48 AM
Quote
Mumei, you have a bad habit of exaggerating- yes, Wind waker was easier than the other Zelda games, but saying it wasn't even somewhat challenging and that a 5 year old could beat it is just flaunting your ignorance.
Of course it could be. WW's dungeons were little more than a pretty-looking path with some token enemies and one main original puzzle on the side. If I could beat Sonic 2 for the SMS when I was 4, some kid can beat WW now. I'm playing through it with 3 hearts - well, trying to; it's hard to avoid them all with the mail and all - and it still hasn't really been that challenging yet.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 23, 2004, 02:42:35 AM
Post by: Caillan on July 23, 2004, 03:22:52 AM
I like the combat in WW, even if it's too easy most of the time. The parry option is maybe a little too much relied upon, but it's not done too badly. I also like the way they incorperated large-scale and spectactular fights into WW, they can be really fun. Most of all though, the way in which different items will affect different enimies adds a fair bit of depth that previously in the series just didn't exist. For example, you'll pick up some nice stuff with the grappling hook if you know where to use it, or the boomerang will do something logical but slightly unexpected. It's another form of exploration.
Post by: ThePerm on July 23, 2004, 07:06:05 AM
Post by: Smashman on July 23, 2004, 07:18:52 AM
).I think you are all taking the "game's quality is purely subjective" a bit too far. Most people believe OoT to be superior to tWW, as that is just the way it is. Many believe the Zelda series has slipped considerably since OoT (IMO, the last truly great Zelda), to be released with MM, tWW, and many other little mini-Zelda games (all of which are not as good as the old, classic ones). They are rushing them, and releasing too many (like one a year). Nintendo needs to REALLY sit down and see if they can make a Zelda AT THE VERY LEAST comparable to OoT or LTTP (the two greats). MM and tWW, while good, just do not live up to these two games. I agree with most of what you all say about tWW, but I just believe you guys to be overrating the game.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 23, 2004, 09:10:55 AM
Damn, my keyboard is eating many letters today...
Post by: Ian Sane on July 23, 2004, 09:56:39 AM
"Besides, I hate the travelling in OOT even more than the sailing in WW. In LttP or LAw you never had such open, empty areas."
Well I did prefer the traveling in OoT to WW but I'll agree that Hyrule Field was incredibly dull. Likely that was because of the limitations of early 3D. I think they did a fairly good job of fixing that with MM by putting a huge town in the middle of the map. That issue should be resolved as 3D technology improves and it's possible to get more objects on screen at once. Compare the first Zelda to LttP. The original Zelda barely even had NPCs, had no towns, and had virtually nothing distinct about any of the areas. It was just a big videogame level. I'm willing to cut it some slack since it's the first Zelda game and since OoT was the first 3D Zelda game it's entitled to some slack as well. OoT sure as hell did a better first job than the original Zelda did.
As for WW I thought it was a great game and one of the best on the Cube. It just isn't as good as some of the other Zelda games so I would rank it fairly low in my own personal best Zelda games list. But being one of the worst Zelda games is not a bad thing. So as a game on it's own merits it was great but by Zelda standards yeah I'd consider it a let down.
My main problem with it is that the ocean is just so damn dull. I didn't find the world in WW interesting at all since it was just a bunch of blue with some tiny uninteresting islands scattered here or there.
Post by: Guitar Smasher on July 23, 2004, 11:34:56 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 23, 2004, 12:19:11 PM
Post by: Smashman on July 23, 2004, 12:48:12 PM
I seriously believe SOME of you to be GC fanboys, and only favoring tWW over OoT because it is on the GCN. OoT > WW= general opinion of gaming populace. Deal with it. Ian Sane is completely correct in his above post (I'm surprised he even joined the debate).
Post by: Berny on July 23, 2004, 01:14:36 PM
I still hold that WW is best. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. I really don't care if you or anyone else likes OOT better. In my 17 years on this earth I've come to expect that not everyone is going to agree with me. Anyways, my vote goes to Not a Let-Down. I'm done.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 23, 2004, 02:55:57 PM
Post by: The Omen on July 23, 2004, 03:03:34 PM
2 OoT
3 WW
4 MM
5 TLOZ
6 TAOL
Out of the Zeldas i've played, thats my ranking.
Post by: Smashman on July 23, 2004, 05:16:14 PM
thecubedcanuck- I could NEVER sell tWW, because it is just very good, but I do not think it is a bad game, just had some flaws. lol- trading WW for a sports game, so u MUST have really disliked it.
Berny- maybe you're not one of them, but I feel some people on this site are biased towards GC because that is the one they own, therefore, they "favor" tWW over OoT. And, you enjoyed EVERY MINUTE. What about the tedious sailing. I refuse to believe it was NOT boring, eventually. Just a thought.
Post by: darknight06 on July 23, 2004, 06:04:49 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on July 23, 2004, 09:22:20 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 23, 2004, 09:55:45 PM
Quote
What about the tedious sailing. I refuse to believe it was NOT boring, eventually. Just a thought.
Never- I voluntarily mapped out every single square in Wind Waker. I loved the sailing- I didn't like how most of it was pointless, but I definitely enjoyed myself while engaging in the activity. Also, you can't assume that anyone who prefers WW only has a Gamecube- Bill will set you straight in that regard.
I myself still prefer Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask in terms of gameplay, but Wind Waker had both absolutely killed in atmosphere and style.
Post by: xts3 on July 24, 2004, 12:14:01 AM
Another complaint was that there was hardly any dungeons and the ones that were there were not that great (for example the endless drop 'dungeon' was a bit repetitive). The sea travelling was gut-wrenchingly boring (thank goodness for the teleport). I'm sure this is the thing most gamers hated about wind waker was the 2-5 or 10 minutes of sea travelling where you are doing nothing but passively watching and getting bored from the lack of interactivity between you, your character and it's environment. Fighting on the water was very cumbersome and not that fun IMHO just because the way it was implemented was half baked and cumbersome. Also not being able to skip or speed up certain dialouge messages in between characters really began to get on my nerves. They've got to make some of the options more customizable.
For being so used to action and actually doing something during travel (rolling, fighting a few monsters on the way, interacting with the environment, rocks, etc in OoT) windwaker was sub-par in the action/interactive category. Also the story was well to put it bluntly: Sub par. I really thought a link to the past and OoT drew you into the Zelda universe but windwaker just kind felt like it had no atmosphere and was retreading OOT (the 'great tree anyone?') in a vain attempt draw you in and attach you to the characters. For first time players of Zelda WW was probably great, but for veterans it was nothing new.
I know Zelda is 'for everyone' but it when I played it I felt like it was dumbed down for the younger generation. This is probably a complaint of older "curmudgeon gamers" like myself but personally I'd like to see Zelda get more mature and diversify its plots/cinematics a bit more then the 'story light' and very naive cliche storyline they used in WW. I'd really like to get know about and feel immersed in the Zelda universe I'm playing in. Why can't link in an alternate universe such as WW (just as a concept comparison), say have the hots for two ladies or vice versa and play off that theme for some interesting and funny social scenes? We also never learn about links heritage, parents, or 'development' as a hero kind of character, it'd really be great if they'd infuse some of the characters with real personality characteristics and emotions. It'd be really neat to see some more mature themes in the Zelda series or a 'spin off' series that totally focuses on enhancing and enriching the Zelda universe for the more mature Zelda fans among us. It's such a hot property and amazing universe but Nintendo may be wearing it out with the same 'very light' "pre-teen" kinds of stories and characters every... single... game.
Things I liked about wind waker:
-Improved battle system (I liked the timing parry's, links new moves and how easy they were to pull off, although I think they could have designed it to take a little more skill instead of just waiting until the right time and tapping the button)
-The art direction (while I really disliked the look before it was released, some of the characters and bosses looked FANTASTIC, Ganon and the king especially, the best looking characters in the game besides the bosses).
-Classic OOT gameplay mechanics /w the new wind waker enhancements. I think they are definitely on to something here that should be explored (giving link new moves, modes of attack, and methods of interacting with his enemies).
-The fact that it has a lot of the 'cliche' and classic things that make it "Zelda".
I still think one of the best (and most original) Zelda's --for it's time-- was Zelda 2: The adventure of link for the original NES. The fact that the game creators at nintendo tried to re-invent the gameplay of Zelda was fantastic, but for the third one they adopted the original Zelda's perspective (which I have to admit I was not as fond of as sidescrolling action of Zelda 2, after all where did link's "signature" moves, such as the upward and downward thrust moves come from in Soul Calibur 2? That's right, the reference all the way back to--Zelda 2, a classic!). I 'm really hyped about the next zelda though. The screenshots alone have got me feeling my faith in Zelda developers restored. I just hope they try some new things for once. Zelda is only as good as their willingness to innovate theirs only so much interest Zelda or any type of game thats been sequeled to death can generate after so many games featuring stale and predictable things we've experienced in the previous games.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on July 24, 2004, 07:23:11 AM
1. Wind Waker
2. Majora's Mask
3. Adventure of Link (first one I played)
4. Ocarina
5. Link's Awakening
Call me a child of the new revolution (even though I'm 21) I still find the 3-D Zelda's to be superb. And I know how most of you hate Zelda 2, but since it was the first one I played (I think, it might have been the original, just I was three) I never really "deviated" from the basic concept, which is why I still regard it as one of the greatest.
Post by: Smashman on July 24, 2004, 09:15:26 AM
mouse_clicker- I find sailing boring in the fact that there wasn't much to do with the King of Red Lions. I thought of it as a bathroom break, to go between islands, in an empty, bland ocean. At least Hyrule Field wasn't that big, and you weren't there ALL THE TIME, and you only ride Epona for a couple minutes AT MOST. It takes -TWO MINUTES- to go through a square, and it just took far too much of the game. Darn the tediousness!
xts3- yet another person who jacked into my brain and took my thoughts...
SgtShiversBen- I never said YOU were biased. I am saying I believe there to be some people on this site to prefer WW over OoT simply b/c it was on GCN. And, seriously, the graphics mean very little.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 24, 2004, 10:54:57 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 24, 2004, 11:27:21 AM
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mouse_clicker- I find sailing boring in the fact that there wasn't much to do with the King of Red Lions. I thought of it as a bathroom break, to go between islands, in an empty, bland ocean. At least Hyrule Field wasn't that big, and you weren't there ALL THE TIME, and you only ride Epona for a couple minutes AT MOST. It takes -TWO MINUTES- to go through a square, and it just took far too much of the game. Darn the tediousness!
I love riding Epona, too! Epona's one of the best parts of Ocarina of Time. I'd just ride around Hyrule Field watching the sun and moon rise and set and looking for secrets and poes.
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Yes, I know WW is low on dungeons (though I don't differentiate between temples and other dungeons...) but at least they were dungeons I enjoyed.
I completely agree- while I definitely would've liked more challenge in WW's dungeons, they were fun as hell. Case in point the mirror puzzle (can't remember which dungeon it's from, but you know what I'm talking about). The mirror puzzle wasn't hard at all but I had a blast doing it. Probably my favorite single puzzle in a Zelda game yet.
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If Nintendo did the same thing with OOT as with WW (kicking out sub-par dungeons) I don't think OOT would have many left.
I completely disagree- I think every single dungeon in OoT was nothing less than superb. The Water Temple especially just blew me away. If Nintendo had kicked out the sub-par dungeons in OoT, it would have had the exact same amount.
Post by: Ian Sane on July 24, 2004, 11:53:04 AM
Personally I think the ideal template is Link's Awakening. Lots of dungeons and lots of stuff to do between the dungeons.
Post by: Smashman on July 24, 2004, 02:17:59 PM
All 9 of OoT's dungeons were nothing short of superb, as mouse_clicker put. WW had 5 dungeons because it was RUSHED. WW dungeons were cut from the game to get it out quicker. They applied every last bit of effort to make OoT the classic it is. WW is not a bad game, but it is NOT the classic some of you say it is.
OoT is an undeniable classic, so STOP undermining it.
And, Ian San, I agree with your post, as well.
Post by: ThePerm on July 24, 2004, 02:37:49 PM
oh and kdr...yeah highrule field was a bit dull, i rememberh woever earlier games liek quest 64 having a larger overworld...however they were not as detailed nor interactive. I would like to see a game that has a combination of huge world and lots of interactivity.
Post by: The Omen on July 24, 2004, 03:10:51 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 24, 2004, 05:37:44 PM
Yes. Make sure to get Link's Awakening DX for the colour, the camera shop, and the extra dungeon.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 24, 2004, 08:14:11 PM
Post by: bostwick202 on July 25, 2004, 07:10:16 AM
Post by: Smashman on July 25, 2004, 12:03:17 PM
Some more thoughts:
tWW was just inferior to OoT in every way, and, now that the we have lost some of that etheral wow effect, the game is just plain worse than OoT. OoT is amazing, and tWW is its retarded cousin. OoT is bigger, and tWW just didn't revolutionize the way OoT did. tWW is just shorter, and the dungeons are smaller, and EACH and EVERY one is easy, and can EASILY be beaten by a 7-year-old, while OoT's were all superb. Everywhere else other than this site, everyone thinks sailing is a flaw, while people here overrate the game, greatly. If you can beat the tWW in over a week, then you either suck at video games majorly. tWW can take 5 hours to beat if one knows what they're doing, while OoT takes 8-9 hours. There was NO point in getting all of the heart pieces in tWW, unlike OoT and tWW, because the world was just too big and tedious to traverse. OoT definitely beats WW in terms of game size. WW is almost nothing but a vacuous Great Sea, while OoT has more and larger dungeons.
I know I am have repeated myself a couple times, but those are a few thoughts I needed to share.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 25, 2004, 09:03:31 PM
To me OOT feels like an MMORPG, something you slug through because you have a feeling you have to do it, but there's just no fun on the way. Your enemy isn't Ganondorf, but frustration, boredom, the camera and the controls. Windwaker just plain PLAYS better than OOT. If it's shorter,so be it, at least it's short and fun as opposed to long and no fun.
Post by: Caillan on July 25, 2004, 11:18:24 PM
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To me OOT feels like an MMORPG, something you slug through because you have a feeling you have to do it
Perhaps this has more to do with the philosophy of the player than anything else. To me, I played OoT hyped and ready to do as much as I could to enjoy myself. I was hyped about WW, sure, but in a different way. Playing it, it felt more monotonous than OoT. I felt more compelled to romp through as much content as possible than to enjoy myself. I spent about 4 hours getting the maps for all the squares, and didn't play it again for a week.
It's strange how it's pretty much accepted that most people's favourite Zelda will the first one they plyed, or at least that they will display prejudice towards their first experience. Perhaps it has to do with expectations, and attempting to push further games to fufill them? I've missed too many games this generation because I feel bored whilst I'm playing as I have more important things to do, and I intend to miss no more!
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 25, 2004, 11:35:00 PM
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It's strange how it's pretty much accepted that most people's favourite Zelda will the first one they plyed, or at least that they will display prejudice towards their first experience.
It's not strange at all- the first Zelda game someone plays sets a cast in their mind of what Zelda is. But no two Zelda games are really alike, so nothing can ever quite capture the same feeling of the first.
Post by: Smashman on July 26, 2004, 02:07:16 AM
And, OoT is NOT my first Zelda. LTTP is. Then LA. Then OoT. OoT > all, folks. You think all of the mediocre crap of today is superior to the classics of yesteryear???
Post by: SgtShiversBen on July 26, 2004, 06:13:42 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on July 26, 2004, 08:09:41 AM
No, but I think the awesome games of today are superior to the classics of yesteryear. Not every game has been replaced by a better one, but some have been. IMO Super Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission are both vastly superior to the original Metroid, making it even more aggravating to die because of some flaw in the game. Things like being vulnerable when exiting a room or respawning ith 30 health (why??? To make sure you spend enough time killing random enemies to get some health together and add to your timer, MMO style?). OOT had flaws like the delayed lock on (I f#ing hate that, I get hurt way too much because of this) or unskippable dialogue (I hate this one, too, but not because it's frustrating, just annoying and in way too many games), which were rectified in Wind Waker. While playing OOT I often wished I had this or that feature of WW at my disposal.
p.S.: Super Mario World was also MUCH better than SMB 3 due to better level design.
Post by: odifiend on July 26, 2004, 09:16:47 AM
To this day I have not beaten WW, even though I bought it the same day it was released. I have played every other Zelda game, with the exception of Link's Awakening and the CD-I ones, and enjoyed them. There were times when I got frustrated, but never have I stopped playing a Zelda game until I bought Wind Waker. Not only do I find sailing tedious, but when you go 'exploring' for underwater treasure 99.9% of the time, it is money. WW for me, reaked of why should I? Get the fish to give me a map? Nah I'm positive there is no island in this square any way. Search for treasure? Nope, it's all rupees and I can cut bushes.
Reading the replies, I really do regret not making it to Gannon, because apparently that makes the game for a lot of you. But I haven't even gotten to the part were you collect the triforce and already I find the game tired...so Never Happening!
Post by: Smashman on July 26, 2004, 12:53:18 PM
KDR_11k- I understand you perfectly. You find todays games more enjoyable because of the better system functions, but don't say that you outright HATE OoT, or Metroid, as that is just being unfair.
odifiend- Finally, someone who I can agree with. What do you mean OoT was awesome at the time of its release? It is STILL one of the all-time greats. And, the concept of sequels never applied to the Zelda games. WW is no more a sequel to OoT, then OoT is to LTTP. Your final sentences explain the glaring flaws of tWW perfectly. All you do, for most of the Heart Piece collecting, was sail... and sail... and sail... I, as stubborn as I sound, just don't understand how anyone can tolerate sailing for more than say... 10 minutes, at maximum. It becomes unbearable...
Post by: ib2kool4u912 on July 26, 2004, 01:31:50 PM
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Originally posted by: Smashman
KDR_11k- I understand you perfectly. You find todays games more enjoyable because of the better system functions, but don't say that you outright HATE OoT, or Metroid, as that is just being unfair.
It seems perfectly fair to me, hating something is showing an opinion, KDR was just expressing an opinion.
Post by: odifiend on July 26, 2004, 02:01:22 PM
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Originally posted by: Smashman
odifiend- Finally, someone who I can agree with. What do you mean OoT was awesome at the time of its release? It is STILL one of the all-time greats. And, the concept of sequels never applied to the Zelda games. WW is no more a sequel to OoT, then OoT is to LTTP...
I meant it was so awesome that it drew gasps from your chest
. It is indeed still a great game but most of the 'awe' is gone because in the graphics department it is dwarfed by today's games. While sequels 'never apply' to Zelda games, I meant it in the way that applies to all video games. I am going to make a game of similar nature with similar mechanics except this time the motion will be more fluid, the graphics will be better, etc...
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 26, 2004, 02:11:17 PM
Post by: odifiend on July 26, 2004, 02:24:47 PM
P.S. I was wondering where you were... ya know this is how Hyrule flooded...
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 26, 2004, 02:41:09 PM
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Originally posted by: odifiend
Anyway how many new points can you expect to pop up when both games have been out for years?
That's why I'm sort of banking on this topic dying...
Post by: Ms.Pikmin on July 26, 2004, 02:53:33 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 26, 2004, 03:03:56 PM
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What...the...hell...Why do the boards always go "BLEH" when I'm out of town?
I don't recall the boards ever going "BLEH" when you left town- I seem to recall the boards already being "BLEH".
Post by: odifiend on July 26, 2004, 03:08:55 PM
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Originally posted by: BillQuote
Originally posted by: odifiend
Anyway how many new points can you expect to pop up when both games have been out for years?
That's why I'm sort of banking on this topic dying...
It was on its last legs with the occasional bump now and then, but then the Hyrule specific category was eliminated.
Post by: Smashman on July 26, 2004, 04:44:04 PM
But, I will probably just get bored, come back, post some more, and aggravate people even more, especially Bill...
Post by: RCmodeler on August 10, 2004, 03:46:07 PM
= Ganan was never really a threat; despite his presence the world was still a happy place (compared to the dark, dreary Ocarina)
= I didn't die even once; I felt like I was playing a toddler school version; I want *challenge* in my games; I want to die from time-to-time
= boring treasure hunting that wasted 10 hours = stretched = I prefer a sold 10-hour game like Ico to a stretched/empty 30-hour game
= only half as many dungeons as Ocarina
Bottom Line: I wish they had spent less time on the graphics/music, and more time on the gameplay.
QuoteQUESTION:
I still absolutely loved this game, and it is easily one of the best I've ever played. It just has a lot of flaws.
Why would you "love" a game that has a "lot of flaws"??? There are literally dozens of other games with no -or- almost no flaws you could devote your love to. Just off the top-of-my-head:
- Skies of Arcadia, Xenosaga, Final Fantasy 10/10--2, Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, Metroid Prime, Smash Bros, Space Channel 5, Dance Dance Revolution, Rez, Beyond Good & Evil, Ico, et cetera, et cetera.
I sold Wind Waker on ebay to recover my money. I can't love a game with so many flaws*, when there are dozens of better games I can spend my time playing & loving. Maybe you should remove your Wind Waker disc and try some of the nearly flawless games in my list? It will knock WW off its pedestal, and you'll realize how truly mediocre WW is.
Topic: Zelda: Wind Waker was it a let down?
YES. Beautiful graphics and music. Below average story and game design + too damn easy.
Post by: DrZoidberg on August 10, 2004, 04:50:38 PM
GANAN SEZ NONO TO THIS THREAD LIVING
