Post by: Perfect Cell on August 28, 2003, 06:52:39 AM
Post by: rpglover on August 28, 2003, 07:07:10 AM
i dont think that nintendo would partner with microsoft anyway- it is just coincidence that now both microsoft and nintendo have ATI designing their graphics chips- there will be 3 systems in this next "console war" and it will include nintendo, microsoft, and sony- i can not see nintendo partnering up with another company to make a console with them in the near future
Post by: Perfect Cell on August 28, 2003, 07:13:42 AM
Post by: d_bomb_23 on August 28, 2003, 07:29:57 AM
they would own console market,sony couldnt even contest if this happened
Post by: Michael8983 on August 28, 2003, 07:42:22 AM
So what?
There have been tons of crazy rumors that have been widely circulated that turned out to be completely bogus.
This whole MS/Nintendo thing is as ridiculous as those reports of Starfox Adventures being moved to the PS2 last year.
The most I can see is Nintendo and MS agreeing to have similar architecture so developers can easily develope games on both consoles together.
That would be mutually beneficial and most importantly would help the fight against Sony.
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on August 28, 2003, 07:54:56 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on August 28, 2003, 07:59:28 AM
It would benifit both parties, deal with it.
Post by: KDR_11k on August 28, 2003, 08:00:02 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on August 28, 2003, 08:12:12 AM
You have to remember that MS is in its first year as a console maker and already has a tie in market share with the long time giant Nintendo. MS has captured a large portion of the US (teen/adult) market with the X-box while NIN no doubt has a loyal following and owns the youth market.
The two companies joining together would surely give Sony a run in the next wave of the console war, while separately they dont have a chance.
MS also has huge ties with the PC sector, which would mean this new console (if it happens) would get the best in PC style games, shooters, and all of the NIN games which everyone here likes. The joining of the 2 would also attract a huge amount of 3rd party support in all genres.
IMO there are many things that one could say have been clues to this:
- the RARE deal
- the ATI chip talks
- the fact that both console makers havent been able to touch Sony apart, in fact all they have done is split the non Sony market, a problem that neother company can ignore.
The only question I have is, can two very diffenrt companies from two very differant cultures get along well enough to make this happen?
Post by: joshnickerson on August 28, 2003, 08:28:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
The only question I have is, can two very diffenrt companies from two very differant cultures get along well enough to make this happen?
Cue the "Odd Couple" theme song!
Seriously, don't we hear about this rumor every week? I am so sick of it. It's right up there with Nintendo buying Sega.
Post by: Michael8983 on August 28, 2003, 08:50:40 AM
Nintendo is making a lot of money in the console market.
MS has lost a TON of money in the console market.
Iwata recently reaffirmed that Nintendo is a profit-driven company.
Seems pretty clear to me why no one should take this rumor seriously.
I'm really starting to think Nintendo fans will believe ANYTHING no matter how ridiculous it is as long as it leads to the possibility of defeating Sony. There was this INSANE rumor last year about Nintendo finding a way to sue Sony and steal the Playstation brandname along with all the profits made off of it. It was a part of the "megaton" thing and was reported on several sites. AND PEOPLE BELIEVED IT!!!!!!
LOTS OF PEOPLE!!!!!!!
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!!!!!!
Actually, come to think of it, I heard this rumor that Nintendo's next console will be made of God himself and only people who buy it will go to heaven! Sony is dead!
Post by: The Omen on August 28, 2003, 09:23:44 AM
Post by: Sirmorphix on August 28, 2003, 09:28:35 AM
We Nintendo fans seem to hype anything up and try to justify believing anything.
"No no, it must be true, because 15 french and russian websites said so, and I heard that Jesus was planning on developing a new game console with MS too! I hear he's calling it the Megaton!"
Post by: aoi tsuki on August 28, 2003, 09:44:07 AM
Post by: NintendoFanGirl on August 28, 2003, 09:55:40 AM
Post by: NintendoFanGirl on August 28, 2003, 09:58:20 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on August 28, 2003, 10:05:54 AM
Also, stop looking at this from a Nintendo fan point of view, and look at it from a business stand point, and you will see it makes a lot of sense.
Yes, NIN is making money on consoles still, but the numbers have gone down with each of the last two consoles and will continue to drop without adding to their fanbase. In short they will eventually stop making money on consoles if Sony isnt fought a little better and MS keeps gaining more ground. Remeber that MS has lots of money, I know NIN does to, but they dont have enough to fight MS head to head, not even close.
When you look at this from a business point of view it does help NIN, it does help MS, and it would hurt Sony in the long run.
Remember, none of you believed the RARE rumor either.
Post by: Cap on August 28, 2003, 10:30:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
Remeber that MS has lots of money, I know NIN does to, but they dont have enough to fight MS head to head, not even close.
When you look at this from a business point of view it does help NIN, it does help MS, and it would hurt Sony in the long run.
.
buy you are going on the assumption that ms would be willing to lose over 6 billion dollars to compete, and i really dont see them going that far. dont get me wrong, their large pile of money is definately an asset, but sooner or later they will actually have to make some money as well.
i dont doubt that a partnership COULD benifit both companies, i just think they would have a very hard time coming to terms on an agreement. they both seem to want very different things from the video game market. really though, the only thing i would see happening in the long run is that nintendo would eventually end up being taken over by ms.
Post by: Mannypon on August 28, 2003, 10:50:17 AM
Post by: Sirmorphix on August 28, 2003, 11:10:58 AM
Quote
Remember, none of you believed the RARE rumor either.
Remeber, tonnes of you believed "Megaton" too.
Post by: Uglydot on August 28, 2003, 12:15:52 PM
Post by: The Omen on August 28, 2003, 01:10:51 PM
In other words, whats their reason to team up with anyone?
They can change the 'kid' image on their own, and have taken steps already. The only other problem i see is advertising, and its changing already, as well.
Post by: Perfect Cell on August 28, 2003, 01:45:05 PM
Post by: Perfect Cell on August 28, 2003, 01:46:22 PM
Post by: Mannypon on August 28, 2003, 02:56:18 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 28, 2003, 03:19:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: joshnickersonQuote
Cue the "Odd Couple" theme song!
Homer: Hey Lisa, what's your faaaavorite show?
Lisa: Well, until you taped over it, The Little Mermaid
Homer: That's right! The Odd Couple! Now prepare to meet your comically mismatched roomate, Bart!
Homer: Do do do doooo, do do do do do do doooooo!
Lisa: DAD!
Homer: DO DO DO DAH DAAAAHHH! DAH DAH DAH DAH DAAAAAAAH DO!
But yeah, this sounds like an ass rumour. And ass rumours are the worst kind! Watch out next week as this obscure French site reveals SHOCKING news that Nintendo is actually teaming up with THQ to make the "CRAP BOX 4000!"
Post by: Darc Requiem on August 28, 2003, 05:32:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
PLEASE, stop with M$ garbage, it makes your point look childish and blatently baised.
Also, stop looking at this from a Nintendo fan point of view, and look at it from a business stand point, and you will see it makes a lot of sense.
Yes, NIN is making money on consoles still, but the numbers have gone down with each of the last two consoles and will continue to drop without adding to their fanbase. In short they will eventually stop making money on consoles if Sony isnt fought a little better and MS keeps gaining more ground. Remeber that MS has lots of money, I know NIN does to, but they dont have enough to fight MS head to head, not even close.
When you look at this from a business point of view it does help NIN, it does help MS, and it would hurt Sony in the long run.
Remember, none of you believed the RARE rumor either.
Exactly how would this help Nintendo from a business standpoint? MS is losing bucket loads of money and Nintendo is making money hand over fist. Nintendo continues to make more money than even Sony. A partnership with MS would be fruitless and pointless. Nintendo does things there way. Wasting a half billion to set up X-box live, losing more than $120 per console, paying 3rd parties dev cost on games that will appear on competing consoles, etc. are MS' way of doing business. MS has lost 1.5 billion dollars on X-box. Nintendo and MS are two different companies with completely different business ideals. From a business standpoint it makes no sense. It would be beneficial to MS and not Nintendo. If you look at Nintendo's business decisions they only do things that benefit their profit margin. Its the major reason Nintendo didn't buy Sega. They didn't want to take on Sega's 2 billion dollar debt.
Darc Requiem
Post by: Darc Requiem on August 28, 2003, 05:38:23 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on August 28, 2003, 05:43:13 PM
Post by: rpglover on August 28, 2003, 06:00:19 PM
i dont think so- even if that were to happen (highly unlikely at least in my perspective) microsoft and nintendo probably have different thoughts on what their graphics chips should need and do- nintendo gives the designers a long list of specifications that they want their chips to do, and the designers create it to suit their needs- microsoft could go for a different route entirely- but i doubt that they will team up with nintendo
Post by: Shift Key on August 28, 2003, 08:39:24 PM
- Microsoft have more to gain than Nintendo. They're not making money from the Xbox, and have basically no market in Japan. Nintendo on the other hand, are plodding along, making a healthy profit out of a smaller market share. Sure, 'you have to make a loss to make a profit', but how much loss will it take?
- The companies have huge differences in terms of goals and strategy. In terms of established software and hardcore fans combining with mainstream gamers and recognisable brandname, there are obvious benefits, IN THEORY. Just like communism works, IN THEORY. But to make it work requires the two companies to work together, and I just can't see that happening.
- The Sony/Nintendo partnership would be successful because it has the most popular console combined with the most recognisable characters and games, but in terms of co-operation, I see Sony wearing the pants in that partnership.
- I know Sega has major debts, but I can't understand why Nintendo wouldn't buy them. Sure it's $2 billion, but Nintendo can probably absorb that, integrate the company as a major second party like SK and Retro, and get them to work on some new stuff! Nintendo needs Sega on their side, and their side only. It may not be the best business decision, but it should pay dividends in the long term, by winning back market share.
Post by: DrGAKMAN on August 28, 2003, 10:08:40 PM
Well, I happen to know that Microsoft WANTS to team up with Nintendo in one form or another. They originally wanted to buy Nintendo before this generation, but it didn't happen 'cos of Mr. Yamauchi anti-MS stigma & Microsoft wanting Nintendo to ditch their GAMECUBE system altogether. Microsoft knows now that they can't play such hardball with Nintendo this time as it would cost them too much to buy them out and would be asking too much to try to tell them what to do. So I think Microsoft is instead trying the cozy approach by coming to Nintendo under Nintendo's terms and not the we're gonna buy you, you're gonna do this for us, you're gonna throw away your plans for the next system and you're gonna like it! They have been less insulting of Nintendo lately and in fact the recent ATi announcement may be Microsoft actually complimenting Nintendo by admitting ATi's work on the GAMECUBE's graphics set impressed them to the point of wanting to work with them.
I think alot of you are thinking that they'd have to merge or Microsoft would have to buy Nintendo or something...NO...that's not the only way. In fact a less expensive *and* more agreeable term is to just be partners. Go on as they normally would with their own respective systems/philosophies next generation only make it to where the systems chipsets are similar (*cough*ATi*cough*) and that both systems use a jointly created disc format. That way Nintendo & Microsoft games can be played on either Nintendo or Microsoft systems. They take themselves out of competition with each other all the while never hendering the other companies plans. They'd have to make it to where the developement tools would make the new games compatible with both systems and they'd have to agree on certain things like peripheral/controller specifications, but the systems themselves could be whatever each company wants them to be.
There wouldn't have to be some JOINT Nintendo+Microsoft system...they'd just to have to agree on the system's core aspects and media format. The systems themselves could be very different. Nintendo would most likely stick to their gaming-only philosophy and possibly make their next system a uber-console/portable. Microsoft would instead compete head-to-head with Sony with their machine by adding all the bells & whistles to it.
Two completly different systems from two different companies BUT that play the same exact games and thusly helping themselves against a common enemy (Sony) while at the same time taking themselves out of competition with themselves. It's like the same business model that VHS & DVD follow. A universal format is created by the founders of the format, to use in machines they themselves make...each appealing to a different market but that play the same format which they (and outside 3RD parties) make software for to reap profits from. It's what Sony ultimaly wants to do if their Playstation format is the only one left from the console "wars" so they can license out the software & hardware that plays the software to multiple companies to make multiple machines while they sit back and let the jack roll in. If Microsoft & Nintendo can agree on a universal format for their systems then they sorta skip to Sony's next step before Sony can even do it and create a VHS/DVD like business model putting the squeeze on Sony to the point where they can legitamatly compete with them.
Garrison Andrew Kane
Post by: Mannypon on August 28, 2003, 10:25:25 PM
Post by: The Omen on August 29, 2003, 12:41:10 AM
Quote
The Sony/Nintendo partnership would be successful because it has the most popular console combined with the most recognisable characters and games, but in terms of co-operation, I see Sony wearing the pants in that partnership.
I think both MS and Sony see Nintendo as the wildcard. I'm willing to bet Sony would partner with Nintendo , allowing Nintendo to work the games angle while Sony works on the entertainment side of things. And since it'll have the almighty Playstation name, there will be massive sales, and no more 'shunning ' of Nintendo to the mass market. I just cant see a MS/Nintendo venture helping Nintendo like this would. In fact, it would hurt Nintendo in the Japan while remaining about the same in north america.
Post by: Michael8983 on August 29, 2003, 01:16:55 AM
Yamauchi isn't the only one with an anti-MS stigma.
If Nintendo did anything with MS, it would destroy Nintendo's reputation in Japan with consumers and especially other Japanese companies.
Nintendo is one of the most respected and most praised companies in the Japanese business world and there's no way it would throw that all away.
"That way Nintendo & Microsoft games can be played on either Nintendo or Microsoft systems. They take themselves out of competition with each other all the while never hendering the other companies plans. They'd have to make it to where the developement tools would make the new games compatible with both systems and they'd have to agree on certain things like peripheral/controller specifications, but the systems themselves could be whatever each company wants them to be."
That would work out great except Nintendo's console would be a huge failure. Everywhere except maybe Japan.
Nintendo has constantly stressed that it relies on exclusive games to sell its consoles. Take away the exclusive games and people don't buy Nintendo consoles anymore.
If both an MS and a Nintendo console played all the same games, the vast majority of people would buy the MS console.
Nintendo would essentially end up being nothing more than an unofficial MS second-party.
"Two completly different systems from two different companies BUT that play the same exact games and thusly helping themselves against a common enemy (Sony) while at the same time taking themselves out of competition with themselves."
As long as Nintendo and MS were still seperate companies with seperate consoles that consumers would have to choose between, they would still be in competition.
Post by: rpglover on August 29, 2003, 04:06:14 AM
yeah but how would that help nintendo at all? as michael pointed out earlier- that means that all the things that nintendo helps push consoles with (thier exclusive game titles) would now be on a completely different system along with theirs- that just makes the next xbox from microsoft even more enticing to buy rather than nintendo's console- sure nintendo would sell the games and make profit as a publisher, but what about the consoles? i really dont see how that could help nintendo, but it sure could help get the xbox pushing- combining their lineup with nintendo's
Post by: Pale on August 29, 2003, 06:00:36 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on August 29, 2003, 07:27:21 AM
Post by: DrGAKMAN on August 29, 2003, 08:36:47 AM
I think their individual console sales would be moot at this point since they BOTH play the same games. Exclussives are moot too since they're really not trying to outsell each other, but instead, Sony...or at least compete.
Giving gamers a choice between a cheaper Nintendo made games-only machine and an all-in-one Microsoft system that both play the same games is not only good, but diversifying people's tastes without really competing with one another. I've forgotten that this isn't gaming-age.com where I've been talking about my Nintendo going more portable theory for a while now. I believe that Nintendo will aim to make their next system discman sized and make it to where the next GameBoy can display GAMECUBE quality visuals so you can hook them up together and ultimatly play next generation games on the go. This would be more than the perfect answer to PSP *and* cosolidate Nintendo's GameBoy dominance with their ailing console line to create a uber-portable/console market all their own. Microsoft's machine will not just play games, but I imagine will have alot of features the PSX3 has. The big thing is now, if they team up now they can have each others games as an extra selling point to their systems over Sony's. While Microsoft would probably do better in America with their bigger badder system, Nintendo would most likely do better in Japan since it's name/system design will do alot better there for that market...but either way it doesn't matter 'cos the *real* money is in the software and I garauntee if they were to team up they would sell more software. It would really benifit developers 'cos, by making just one game for them, they reach two completly diverse markets. It would benifit gamers 'cos instead of having to buy two systems to enjoy Microsoft & Nintendo's software libraries they'll only have to buy one.
This talk of a Sony team up is what's *really* rediculous. Sony has already drawn the battle lines with PSP...they're not gonna back down...they want to force Nintendo out of the market or force them to go 3RD party...not to team up with them. Sony are control freaks, they would want Nintendo to drop the GAMECUBE & GameBoy line before joining them thus making them dependant on Sony. Microsoft may have wanted that before this generation, but they know that Nintendo won't give up their portable or console lines and be b!tched into making games for someone elses system. Besides, Microsoft doesn't want Nintendo to ditch the strong GameBoy line for some silly "X-BOY" either...I'm sure they're more willing to come to terms than Sony is...why...'cos Sony is dominant and therefore arogant where as Microsoft is in the same boat as Nintendo...under Sony's boot.
Post by: Perfect Cell on August 29, 2003, 09:19:53 AM
Post by: nitsu niflheim on August 29, 2003, 09:28:43 AM
Quote
If Microsoft & Nintendo can agree on a universal format for their systems then they sorta skip to Sony's next step before Sony can even do it and create a VHS/DVD like business model putting the squeeze on Sony to the point where they can legitamatly compete with them.
Wouldn't be too hard since Sony already had this happen to them when Sony released the BETA, where as another company (sorry I can't for the love of Nintendo, spell their name, though it starts with a M and I think is the Japanese counter-part of Panasonic, the company responsible for the "Q" Player)later released the VHS which then became the standard, and BETA became somewhat of a novely.
But I don't see Nintendo and Microsoft teaming up of sorts, the close would be to create the new standard in storage format like DrGAKMAN mentioned. Other than that makes no sense. Microsoft is part videogame, part all out home entertainment center, and part world domination, where as Nintendo is only in the business for videogames, if you may.
And are you, "THE" DrGAKMAN from the old board, if so, then a howdy hello.
Post by: Sirmorphix on August 29, 2003, 09:53:17 AM
Quote
sorry I can't for the love of Nintendo, spell their name, though it starts with a M and I think is the Japanese counter-part of Panasonic, the company responsible for the "Q" Player
Mitsubishi? Don't really know much about the Q, that's my best guess though.
Post by: DrGAKMAN on August 29, 2003, 09:59:28 AM
The VHS format I believe was created by Matsushita (as you said) and JVC.
To respond to the guy before you...no...I don't think creating a universal format to be played on both Nintendo & Micrsoft systems would be "selling out". And as far as licensing goes it should be 50/50.
The *real* problem if they've come this far in agreement (on creating a universal format) is what format to use. Do they go Sony's route with BRD? Or do they make their own? I think they absolutly should create their own. BRD is nice, don't get me wrong, but I think Sony plans are to make it the "next" format for HiDef movies & games. I'm under the belief that they're doing it too soon as people are *quite* happy with DVD just as they are *still* quite happy with CD's for music. Nintendo & Microsoft should instead stick with a dirrivative of the current DVD format IMO. That way they could be loads cheaper (since it's not exactly a new technology) and thusly publishers may find it more attractive than PSX3's BRD. Sony will either dominate with BRD ('cos it'll hook into the whole digital video recording/HiDef format craze) or they'll be humbled 'cos of it due to the fact that it just may be too soon to ask people to jump from DVD to BRD. Plus most developers may not have the budget to create 25-50GB games next generation so it could really all backfire on Sony...which is where Nintendo & Microsoft's new universal propriety DVD could step in. It may not hold as much data, but it'll be LOADS cheaper than BRD at this point AND it won't be relying on becoming a new entertainment standerd since DVD is already pretty much standerd anyways. Plus Nintendo & Microsoft could add their own hooks (extra selling points) by sticking with DVD. For instance if Nintendo does go portable with their next machine then they could have the "hook" of being a portable DVD player too (which to me would >CRUSH< PSP's UMD format as a portable movie format). Microsoft could combat PSX3's BRD Recording by adding a CD-RW or DVD-RW to their next X-BOX as it's "hook" 'cos by that time such technology would be way cheaper to impliment than BRD Recording...plus people would be more accepting of making their own CD's & DVD's to play in their existing players than they would making BRD's which would only really be playable mainly in PSX3 at that point.
Sorry, I went of topic with that whole "which format should they choose", but it's been on my mind.
Post by: The Omen on August 29, 2003, 10:21:32 AM
Quote
This talk of a Sony team up is what's *really* rediculous. Sony has already drawn the battle lines with PSP...they're not gonna back down...they want to force Nintendo out of the market or force them to go 3RD party...not to team up with them. Sony are control freaks, they would want Nintendo to drop the GAMECUBE & GameBoy line before joining them thus making them dependant on Sony. Microsoft may have wanted that before this generation, but they know that Nintendo won't give up their portable or console lines and be b!tched into making games for someone elses system. Besides, Microsoft doesn't want Nintendo to ditch the strong GameBoy line for some silly "X-BOY" either...I'm sure they're more willing to come to terms than Sony is...why...'cos Sony is dominant and therefore arogant where as Microsoft is in the same boat as Nintendo...under Sony's boot.
1. Microsoft is more arrogant than Sony, and more dominating. As i stated earlier, Sony views MS as the threat to their do-everything entertainment box. Nintendo isnt in that category. As for being under Sonys boot...ummm, Nintendo makes MORE money off their system than anyone.
2. Teaming up with Sony is no more ridiculous than your idea of the MS/Nintendo partnership. In fact, its much more plausible. Nintendo would get something out of it, a lot actually, as would Sony. And do not discount the japanese influence these two hold. Again, your theories are good in writing , but they wont work in Japan. Sony/Nintendo will work world wide. Nintendo handling the games side, Sony handling its all important entertainment side. Sony doesn't make great games anyway.
3. MS did try to buy Nintendo, however they tried to buy Sega as well, among many others. As far as i can remember ,Sony hasn't tried to buy out anyone. Did you ever think Sony sees a partnership with NIN making them even more dominant over their direct rival? And isn't that the point?
I must say that i dont see either of these happening, for the simple fact that Nintendos problems arent money related. They're image related, and that can be changed in a generation.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on August 29, 2003, 10:37:13 AM
Quote
Nintendos problems arent money related. They're image related, and that can be changed in a generation.
Not when they announce games like Donkey Konga it cant be.
Post by: Pale on August 29, 2003, 10:54:54 AM
Post by: Perfect Cell on August 29, 2003, 11:20:09 AM
Post by: The Omen on August 29, 2003, 12:22:13 PM
Quote
Not when they announce games like Donkey Konga it cant be.
I'd say thats just a different genre, not a kiddie game. Lots of people love these kinds of games, and they're pretty big in Japan. But since GC's introduction, Nintendo has taken many steps to improve this image.(which is unwarranted, by the way)
The biggest problem has been advertising, like the Sunshine commercial, for instance. Games -wise, i think theyre doing great.
Post by: slacker on August 29, 2003, 02:39:26 PM
Post by: The Omen on August 29, 2003, 04:56:49 PM
Quote
Nintendo can get back a larger user base and try and re-establish its brand among more mainstream gamers that in turn could give it an advantage in the following next gen wars if it decides to go solo again. I'm being speculative here, but stranger things have happened.
The only way any of those things happen is by partnering with Sony, not MS. Nintendo has just as big a share worldwide as MS does. More mainstream gamers own Playstation , not XBOX. Playstation / nintendo /pn3 or whatever you want to call it would dominate, allowing Sony to achieve its entertainment domination, and Nintendo gets to dominate the mass audience as far as gaming is concerned.
Post by: KatDaddy on August 30, 2003, 02:24:08 AM
The thought behind it is similar to the joining of forces between Suzuki and Kawasaki Motorcycles. Three years ago, if you stated that they would join forces, you would be laughed out of the building. Now, look what has happened. Neither company standing alone could compete with Honda, and both were floundering in their efforts to gain any significant ground.
A little over a year ago, they joined forces on the Dirtbike/motocross/ATV lines only, and now are gaining significant ground on Honda's line. Joining R&D efforts, offering common lines of product with minor tweaks between them to capture any viable customer, as well as increased marketing and better products has really aided the conglomerate's (so to speak) ability to push forward and capture much more market share in that particular motorcycle niche.
And this talk of M$ is "teh greedy M$$ suxxorzz!!111!" is crap. Basically, all issues would be worked out in the contract negotiations. I can see two differing consoles with each having their own "bells and whistles", but having compatibility between them. Revenue sharing, licensing, etc. would be worked out prior.
Not only that, think about the way the gaming market is going now. Personally, I have both consoles, but for a while, I just had the Xbox. I also have a 6-year old daughter. Now, when I only had one console, the kids' choice for games was crap. Now, had I had a console that could offer me games such as Mario, Pikmin, etc, as well as play Halo, Knights of the Old Republic, etc.... the console choice for the older gamer (in my mind) would be a "no-brainer". Nintendo definitely has a larger software choice for the younger gamer, and is why I finally bought a Cube (also because I wanted ED and Z:WW
).Anyway, if they joined, that would probably be the only common thread between MS and Nintendo. N would continue to agressively market the Gameboy lineup, and reap the profits it is already recognizing from that product line.
And as far as Nintendo ever joining Sony, forget about it.
Post by: BadBreathBear on August 30, 2003, 06:13:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DrGAKMAN
Uhhhhh...
I think their individual console sales would be moot at this point since they BOTH play the same games. Exclussives are moot too since they're really not trying to outsell each other, but instead, Sony...or at least compete.
Giving gamers a choice between a cheaper Nintendo made games-only machine and an all-in-one Microsoft system that both play the same games is not only good, but diversifying people's tastes without really competing with one another. I've forgotten that this isn't gaming-age.com where I've been talking about my Nintendo going more portable theory for a while now. I believe that Nintendo will aim to make their next system discman sized and make it to where the next GameBoy can display GAMECUBE quality visuals so you can hook them up together and ultimatly play next generation games on the go. This would be more than the perfect answer to PSP *and* cosolidate Nintendo's GameBoy dominance with their ailing console line to create a uber-portable/console market all their own. Microsoft's machine will not just play games, but I imagine will have alot of features the PSX3 has. The big thing is now, if they team up now they can have each others games as an extra selling point to their systems over Sony's. While Microsoft would probably do better in America with their bigger badder system, Nintendo would most likely do better in Japan since it's name/system design will do alot better there for that market...but either way it doesn't matter 'cos the *real* money is in the software and I garauntee if they were to team up they would sell more software. It would really benifit developers 'cos, by making just one game for them, they reach two completly diverse markets. It would benifit gamers 'cos instead of having to buy two systems to enjoy Microsoft & Nintendo's software libraries they'll only have to buy one.
This talk of a Sony team up is what's *really* rediculous. Sony has already drawn the battle lines with PSP...they're not gonna back down...they want to force Nintendo out of the market or force them to go 3RD party...not to team up with them. Sony are control freaks, they would want Nintendo to drop the GAMECUBE & GameBoy line before joining them thus making them dependant on Sony. Microsoft may have wanted that before this generation, but they know that Nintendo won't give up their portable or console lines and be b!tched into making games for someone elses system. Besides, Microsoft doesn't want Nintendo to ditch the strong GameBoy line for some silly "X-BOY" either...I'm sure they're more willing to come to terms than Sony is...why...'cos Sony is dominant and therefore arogant where as Microsoft is in the same boat as Nintendo...under Sony's boot.
I'm sorry but that is among the more idiotic things I've ever heard. Your entire plan is under the basis that Sony HAS to be beat, but if that were the case, why didn't Nintendo include a DVD player in it's system? Nintendo doesn't have to beat ANYONE. Nintendo has to make MONEY. Is Nintendo making money? Yes, Nintendo is making money. Is Microsoft making money? Hell no! Remember the last time Nintendo tried teaming up, it resulted in the Playstation debacle.
Why would Nintendo want to make another company that it would have to compete against later on? Why would Nintendo want to team with a company that has nothing but lost money in this generation of videogame sales? Why would Nintendo want lose the respect of it's fellow country men? Just to beat Sony? Are you out of your mind? Beating Sony means nothing to Nintendo. Would more market share be nice? Definitely. Would it give up it's way of life to do it? Never.
To quote Perrin Kaplan :
"People say, 'Why don't you do what Microsoft does?' Well, that's never been Nintendo, and it will never be Nintendo."
Post by: Celebi on August 30, 2003, 06:26:39 AM
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The thought behind it is similar to the joining of forces between Suzuki and Kawasaki Motorcycles. Three years ago, if you stated that they would join forces, you would be laughed out of the building. Now, look what has happened. Neither company standing alone could compete with Honda, and both were floundering in their efforts to gain any significant ground.
Well you see they are both Japanese companies whereas Microsoft is American while Nintendo has always been traditionally a Japanese company at heart that grew from a small entertainment company doing card business into what people know today.Rare may have got sold but Nintendo is always considered a valueble asset for tha Japanese when it comes to console gaming business.Imagine all those efforts put into building up Nintendo throughout those many years being just taken away from a foreign company just for money?
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And this talk of M$ is "teh greedy M$$ suxxorzz!!111!" is crap. Basically, all issues would be worked out in the contract negotiations. I can see two differing consoles with each having their own "bells and whistles", but having compatibility between them. Revenue sharing, licensing, etc. would be worked out prior.
Look what happened to Nvidia today?Rare just got swallowed by MS..Sega almost got tricked too.So what can Microsoft contribute if they were to teamed up with Nintendo?Cash?Installed base?Technology?Sony can do that too as well as a matter of fact even better in some of these areas.
But think of it that way if Nintendo was to sell out to an American bully by teaming up with MS just for $$ sake, wonder what will happen with the current software community such as SquareEnix,Konami,Capcom,Atlus,SNK react?The fact that why the FF series,DragonQuest did not make it on the Xbox could answer that.
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also have a 6-year old daughter. Now, when I only had one console, the kids' choice for games was crap. Now, had I had a console that could offer me games such as Mario, Pikmin, etc, as well as play Halo, Knights of the Old Republic, etc.... the console choice for the older gamer (in my mind) would be a "no-brainer".
Well I think you don't quite understand what most Asian console gamers want.You may want adult oriented real FPS,real action gaming and may think adventure games like MArio,Zelda,Pikmin,Pokemon,Digimon,Akira Toriyama's works i.e
ragonball,Hayoki Miyazaki's anime suck but do you know that many Asian youngsters are crazy about them?Thats where the money are and if you think that Nintendo should cater to adults like you,you're wrong because the real market consoles are targeted today is not your group type.They are still aimed at kids.The type of games you'll probably like which are adult/mature type oriented can be found on pcs.So why do you want Nintendo to support MS?Wouldn't the Xbox which is basically designed more towards the PC architecture be more appropriate for you?In this context as well so can Sony cater for the older group as well.They have EA games at their side.
Post by: DrGAKMAN on August 30, 2003, 08:40:30 AM
I can't believe any of you would think that Nintendo & Sony would ever work together. Sony doesn't want to and Nintendo doesn't want to...blam...simple as that. The Microsoft situation is different 'cos you KNOW that Microsoft DOES want to get with Nintendo...right now it's just a question of if Nintendo will even consider it. If Nintendo's big brass considered a Microsoft buyout before this generation even started then surely they might be interested in a partnership next generation. #1 they're doing even worse userbase/mindshare wise than they were coming off the N64. #2 Mr. Yamauchi (the main one who was against Microsoft buying them out pre-GAMECUBE) is no longer in charge at Nintendo. #3 Microsoft surely knows that Nintendo won't be bowled over by selling out and even if they were it'd be too costly to Microsoft to straight out buy them. So...Microsoft is probably aiming for more agreeable terms to Nintendo 'cos they have to.
As far as the comment about Nintendo making money...yes...we all know that Nintendo is STILL very profitable despite their low console userbase...BUT...most of those profits come from milking the GameBoy brand...a brand which will soon be threatened by the PSP. So if Nintendo continues the way they are they will continue to lose console mindshare & userbase (which cuts into profits) and have to worry about losing their cashcow in the GameBoy line. So no, Nintendo isn't always going to be profitable if they continue to lose userbase which now (thanks to casual gamers being the driving force in the market) is shaped by mindshare.
Then someone coupled the above point about how profitable Nintendo is and how profitable Microsoft isn't. Yes that's a good point if we're talking about a merger or a buyout...but not a PARTNERSHIP. Microsoft can continue to do business the way they want to and Nintendo likewise...only now they get to share each others games to garner more support from retailers, gamers, developers & publishers alike!
I used to be very anti-MS, still have a part of me that is...but I can't deny their strengths in the games market. And while alot of the anti-MS sentiment will gladly point out how much Microsoft is "throwing away" on the X-BOX, they ignore the fact that that's the way Microsoft planned to do it anyways. They knew that in order to garner support away from the industry leader (Sony) and the industry veteran (Nintendo) they would have to spend spend spend. That doesn't forever mean they are gonna lose and never gain. In fact I would wager to say that's one of the reasons they would want to partner with Nintendo...why...'cos despite their dwindling market presense and despite competing against two behemoth companies Nintendo remains profitable. I mean look, they went to ATi just as Nintendo did so therefore you know they're looking to get more bang for their buck just like Nintendo did with GAMECUBE (which despite it's power being closely on par with the X-BOX, cost them a fraction of what was spent on the X-BOX). To me, that's a big indicator that Microsoft wants to learn from Nintendo so that instead of "wasting" money on their game projects they can instead MAKE money like Nintendo does.
The comment about "if Nintendo wanted to win, they'd add DVD" bla bla bla is so lame. There is no ONE way for any company to "win". And who said anything really about winning? I just said with a partnership with Microsoft they'd do better to actually be able to truly compete against Sony. The best thing about this is that instead of having two competitors being seperate they would only have ONE being together...and those odds are alot better than what they've got now.
You guys need to get out of the mentality that Microsoft would somehow OWN Nintendo by partnering with them. What I am thinking of (and surely they are thinking of if they're considering getting together) would be less risky, less expensive and be more benificial all the while not compromising one anothers plans/philosophies. The idea is simply that they're format would be universal between the two systems so that each others games sell to each others markets increasing their mindshare, their userbase and their overall pressense in the industry.
Imagine, as a Nintendo fan, walking into a GameStop and Nintendo (with of course Microsoft) FINALLY getting the shelfspace and placement they desserve. Imagine reading a mainstream news article about video games where, instead of them dogging, forgetting or downright ignoring Nintendo, they actually talk about them and give them their proper respect. Imagine being able to read a game magazine where someone is actually happy to reveiw a Nintendo game and not pissing on it 'cos it was a "sloppy port" or "not on the right system" bla bla bla. Imagine actually having 3RD parties making games for YOU instead of sighing 'cos the game is on everything else but Nintendo's system. Imagine a GameStop clerk actually telling you that the newest M Rated game IS in for your Nintendo system and IS available instead of him snooding out: "teH GAMEPUBE is R teH kiddie and therefore we don't carry that game 'cos they don't sell for it!" Imagine Nintendo's delight when the damned shareholders are off their NUTS and they can stop worrying about them and how their marketshare is dwindling and instead worry about making games better all the while watching their games soar up top selling charts 'cos now (thanks to Microsoft's audience buying their games too) their games are selling way better. Imagine a game conversation where people actually take Nintendo seriously. Imagine asking someone to play a Nintendo game and/or on a Nintendo system with them and them not staring at you and saying: "don't you have an X-BOXda or a PlayStation yo!"
Post by: BadBreathBear on August 30, 2003, 09:30:26 AM
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Originally posted by: DrGAKMAN
Wait wait wait...
I can't believe any of you would think that Nintendo & Sony would ever work together. Sony doesn't want to and Nintendo doesn't want to...blam...simple as that. The Microsoft situation is different 'cos you KNOW that Microsoft DOES want to get with Nintendo...right now it's just a question of if Nintendo will even consider it. If Nintendo's big brass considered a Microsoft buyout before this generation even started then surely they might be interested in a partnership next generation. #1 they're doing even worse userbase/mindshare wise than they were coming off the N64. #2 Mr. Yamauchi (the main one who was against Microsoft buying them out pre-GAMECUBE) is no longer in charge at Nintendo. #3 Microsoft surely knows that Nintendo won't be bowled over by selling out and even if they were it'd be too costly to Microsoft to straight out buy them. So...Microsoft is probably aiming for more agreeable terms to Nintendo 'cos they have to.
That's a biased opinion right at the start. Why would they team up with a loser instead of a winner. And even then, why would Nintendo spend 300 million dollars to prevent a hostile takeover. They see Microsoft as a threat. As nothing more than a snake.
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As far as the comment about Nintendo making money...yes...we all know that Nintendo is STILL very profitable despite their low console userbase...BUT...most of those profits come from milking the GameBoy brand...a brand which will soon be threatened by the PSP. So if Nintendo continues the way they are they will continue to lose console mindshare & userbase (which cuts into profits) and have to worry about losing their cashcow in the GameBoy line. So no, Nintendo isn't always going to be profitable if they continue to lose userbase which now (thanks to casual gamers being the driving force in the market) is shaped by mindshare.
Nintendo has 98% of the handheld market. If the PSP is over 150$, it won't be anything more than a novelty device. That and support for the PSP will be limited at start because the costs for developing a game for the system is much much more than making something for the Gameboy series. The main thing that might lead to trouble for Nintendo is if Sony makes the UMD format compatible with the PS3. Even then, battery life would be a major issue for a system like this, and if the batteries don't last, the system won't either.
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Then someone coupled the above point about how profitable Nintendo is and how profitable Microsoft isn't. Yes that's a good point if we're talking about a merger or a buyout...but not a PARTNERSHIP. Microsoft can continue to do business the way they want to and Nintendo likewise...only now they get to share each others games to garner more support from retailers, gamers, developers & publishers alike!
Again, why is beating Sony so important to you? Did you buy a faulty Playstation 2 and now hate them for it? Why is it so important to beat the PS2? Nintendo is doing fine. They're finally getting true RPG support and even Microsoft lacks that. There is no doubt for me that by the end of this generation, Nintendo will be number two and Microsoft will be dead last.
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I used to be very anti-MS, still have a part of me that is...but I can't deny their strengths in the games market. And while alot of the anti-MS sentiment will gladly point out how much Microsoft is "throwing away" on the X-BOX, they ignore the fact that that's the way Microsoft planned to do it anyways. They knew that in order to garner support away from the industry leader (Sony) and the industry veteran (Nintendo) they would have to spend spend spend. That doesn't forever mean they are gonna lose and never gain. In fact I would wager to say that's one of the reasons they would want to partner with Nintendo...why...'cos despite their dwindling market presense and despite competing against two behemoth companies Nintendo remains profitable. I mean look, they went to ATi just as Nintendo did so therefore you know they're looking to get more bang for their buck just like Nintendo did with GAMECUBE (which despite it's power being closely on par with the X-BOX, cost them a fraction of what was spent on the X-BOX). To me, that's a big indicator that Microsoft wants to learn from Nintendo so that instead of "wasting" money on their game projects they can instead MAKE money like Nintendo does.
Basically Microsoft wants to leech off Nintendo. When has anyone ever wanted a leech on them?
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The comment about "if Nintendo wanted to win, they'd add DVD" bla bla bla is so lame. There is no ONE way for any company to "win". And who said anything really about winning? I just said with a partnership with Microsoft they'd do better to actually be able to truly compete against Sony. The best thing about this is that instead of having two competitors being seperate they would only have ONE being together...and those odds are alot better than what they've got now.
The lack of DVD affected Nintendo's image in more ways than you'd care to admit, but anyway, this is such a stupid argument. All you're saying is basically that you don't believe Nintendo can help itself out of the where it's at and that's why they should team up with Microsoft. I on the other hand believe they don't need Microsoft.
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You guys need to get out of the mentality that Microsoft would somehow OWN Nintendo by partnering with them. What I am thinking of (and surely they are thinking of if they're considering getting together) would be less risky, less expensive and be more benificial all the while not compromising one anothers plans/philosophies. The idea is simply that they're format would be universal between the two systems so that each others games sell to each others markets increasing their mindshare, their userbase and their overall pressense in the industry.
If Nintendo wanted a universal format, why did they stick to cartridges? Why did they use a proprietery format for the Gamecube? You don't get it. They want to own the media they use. They don't want to share. And it's not that Microsoft would own Nintendo, it's that Nintendo doesn't need Microsoft. Nintendo is too good for Microsoft.
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Imagine, as a Nintendo fan, walking into a GameStop and Nintendo (with of course Microsoft) FINALLY getting the shelfspace and placement they desserve. Imagine reading a mainstream news article about video games where, instead of them dogging, forgetting or downright ignoring Nintendo, they actually talk about them and give them their proper respect. Imagine being able to read a game magazine where someone is actually happy to reveiw a Nintendo game and not pissing on it 'cos it was a "sloppy port" or "not on the right system" bla bla bla. Imagine actually having 3RD parties making games for YOU instead of sighing 'cos the game is on everything else but Nintendo's system. Imagine a GameStop clerk actually telling you that the newest M Rated game IS in for your Nintendo system and IS available instead of him snooding out: "teH GAMEPUBE is R teH kiddie and therefore we don't carry that game 'cos they don't sell for it!" Imagine Nintendo's delight when the damned shareholders are off their NUTS and they can stop worrying about them and how their marketshare is dwindling and instead worry about making games better all the while watching their games soar up top selling charts 'cos now (thanks to Microsoft's audience buying their games too) their games are selling way better. Imagine a game conversation where people actually take Nintendo seriously. Imagine asking someone to play a Nintendo game and/or on a Nintendo system with them and them not staring at you and saying: "don't you have an X-BOXda or a PlayStation yo!"
You have issues with being accepted don't you? You want Nintendo to team with Microsoft because then that GameStop clerk will stop calling the system a "Gamepube"? I'm sorry, but that's just sad in more ways than one. I don't play games to be accepted. I play videogames to have fun.
Beyond that, you don't really know if what you said will happen if Microsoft teams up with Nintendo. It's called wishful thinking. You would like to think it would happen, but maybe it would make both companies look desperate in trying to beat Sony and that might would hurt their image more than anything else in the long run.
Post by: The Omen on August 30, 2003, 10:14:23 AM
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I can't believe any of you would think that Nintendo & Sony would ever work together. Sony doesn't want to and Nintendo doesn't want to...blam...simple as that. The Microsoft situation is different 'cos you KNOW that Microsoft DOES want to get with Nintendo...right now it's just a question of if Nintendo will even consider it.
First off: I have stated several times that neither is likely. But i'm saying that it makes much more sense to team up with Sony than MS. Because of the many things i've stated in previous posts.
Secondly: Of course MS wants to 'partner' with Nintendo. Thats rather obvious. But its just to have the Nintendo games, and keep them from competing. I'm sure Sony most definately would as well, for the right price. I dont think Nintendo will partner with anyone. They don't need to.
Post by: Celebi on August 30, 2003, 10:17:11 AM
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I mean look, they went to ATi just as Nintendo did so therefore you know they're looking to get more bang for their buck just like Nintendo did with GAMECUBE (which despite it's power being closely on par with the X-BOX, cost them a fraction of what was spent on the X-BOX).
Well look how unloyal MS is to their partners?Dishing Nvidia when there is no more use to them.They went to ATI because their relationship with Nvidia soured thats the true reason.That will happen to Nintendo as well later on when they eat up Nintendo's market share.
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BUT...most of those profits come from milking the GameBoy brand...a brand which will soon be threatened by the PSP.
Sony hasn't disclosed the real name of the PSP yet.It is just the name of the prototype handheld device Sony is making.If Nintendo partners Sony it would probably be the next GB.There are a lot of possible ways the PSP can be made.It could be incorporated into a discman,handheld device,cell phone,PDA and into vehicles as well.Well Sony will not call it the PSP as its official name.
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Microsoft can continue to do business the way they want to and Nintendo likewise...only now they get to share each others games to garner more support from retailers, gamers, developers & publishers alike!
Why not with Sony?Don't you think Nintendo can gain even more?Haha you've got brainwashed by Windows.
Post by: DrGAKMAN on August 30, 2003, 10:21:11 AM
YES Nintendo is profitable.
YES I'm plenty satisfied with the GAMECUBE and could care less what other people think of me or my choice in video games.
BUT...I'm not the typical every day casual gamer...and these are the people that are driving this industry now and yet, they're ignoring Nintendo. They will continue to ignore Nintendo until Nintendo has no marketshare 'cos they have no support from gamers, retailers or developers. I'm sorry, but it'll eventually happen unless something drastic happens to change their image...not only with people who follow games (like us), but the mainstream who ignore Nintendo now.
Also, you're comments about the PSP are...retarded. You think this is Sony's first product? You think they're gonna make some kind of silly mistake like not offer a good enough battery power supply? You think they're not gonna lower the price if people aren't bitting (and by the way $150 + the Sony PlayStation name + alot of fed-up GameBoy gamers = INSTANT buyers for PSP on launch day)??? Rediculous. And what's this about developers not supporting PSP? Believe me developers will be milking the old PSX games on the PSP just as quickly and easily as developers milked their old 16BIT games on GBA. UMD's will be cheaper and hold loads more data than GameBoy carts. No where am I saying that Nintendo is gonna die. Nowhere am I saying Nintendo doesn't have a plan to combat this. HOWEVER...I'm not blind to the fact that the PSP is a threat to Nintendo's biggest money maker: the GameBoy line. It's taking all of Nintendo's resources just to support an ailing console line and keep their portable dominance...what makes you think they won't be hurting when the PSP (for once, a serious competitor to GameBoy) stabs into their portable dominance?
So dwidling userbase in their console line and now a major threat to their portable money maker approaches...how profitable will Nintendo be once the next generation rolls around, huh? Seriously?
Oh yeah dude and calm down with quoting me and stuff, you'd think you were actually retorting me by calling me biased or stupid...it's not working. Besides you don't even seem to be reading my posts, instead you think I'm trying to offend you or something. Not at all. I love Nintendo....but I'd be a fool not to admit that they could be in trouble if they don't do something. Nowhere am I stating that Nintendo & Microsoft ARE getting together...I'm just speculating the possibilities. I'm a speculatory person. Oh yeah and the fact still remains (even Matt from IGN CUBE has admitted this) that Microsoft WANTS to team up with Nintendo...so it IS a possibility that the rumors of them actually getting together could hold some merrit. So instead of being blind to the fact that Sony & Nintendo hate each other and will NEVER work together, maybe you should look at the truth that Microsoft wants to get with Nintendo next generation.
Oh yeah, and your stance of "Nintendo can do it on their own" is respectable and nowhere do I say they can't do it on their own, but it'd be alot easier if Microsoft was working with them to acheive a common goal. To be taken seriously as a true competitor towards Sony instead of being scoffed at by the mainstream so they can thus be more profitable 'cos they have more marketshare...blam...simple as that.
I have alot more to say...but I'm going to be late to work if I don't get going. Bye for now...
Post by: Uglydot on August 30, 2003, 11:44:48 AM
EDIT:nice to see you posting again dr GAK
Post by: Mannypon on August 30, 2003, 11:46:00 AM
Post by: theRPGFreak on August 30, 2003, 06:13:46 PM
Don't be afraid to make me sound like a dumbass!
Post by: Celebi on August 30, 2003, 11:25:40 PM
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I just noticed something, microsoft hasnt really said much on their new system and niether has nintendo except the fact that they are both usin ati whereas sony has already gone out and given people more info like what kind of media they'll be using and whatnot.
Can you tell me what media is the PS3 using?When Sony announced about the cell,it was just in general.Its just like saying the next Xbox will be using a Pentium but how high the frequency and all that isn't announced yet.They only disclosed the prototype/ first generation cell chip specs only.Thats all.The Cel is just another family of chips used by IBM.There will be various flavour for it.Same goes for the Elpida/Rambus XDR DRAMS.
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Also, you're comments about the PSP are...retarded. You think this is Sony's first product? You think they're gonna make some kind of silly mistake like not offer a good enough battery power supply? You think they're not gonna lower the price if people aren't bitting (and by the way $150 + the Sony PlayStation name + alot of fed-up GameBoy gamers = INSTANT buyers for PSP on launch day)??? Rediculous. And what's this about developers not supporting PSP? Believe me developers will be milking the old PSX games on the PSP just as quickly and easily as developers milked their old 16BIT games on GBA. UMD's will be cheaper and hold loads more data than GameBoy carts. No where am I saying that Nintendo is gonna die. Nowhere am I saying Nintendo doesn't have a plan to combat this. HOWEVER...I'm not blind to the fact that the PSP is a threat to Nintendo's biggest money maker: the GameBoy line. It's taking all of Nintendo's resources just to support an ailing console line and keep their portable dominance...what makes you think they won't be hurting when the PSP (for once, a serious competitor to GameBoy) stabs into their portable dominance?
The PSP will not only be in the form of a handheld console like the GBA.Its a techology that can be incorporated into discmans,PDAs as well as the gameboy.They have a brandname that can sell too as well.If they join up with MS they will also have to fork out money to make a new GB as well so why not go with Sony?The advantages are even more.All I can say Microsoft is sort of a leech.They can't design hardware by themselves instead they prey on companies to do it for them like a parasite.They will just trash the company when there is no more use for them.Why would Nintendo take the risk partnering such a company,when there is another one which has everything it needs?
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So instead of being blind to the fact that Sony & Nintendo hate each other and will NEVER work together
If they hate each oher so much there won't be any FF series on the cube and GB today.
But look at MS instead Nintendo just prevented MS from taking over by selling their own shares away and buying them back for new funds.
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maybe you should look at the truth that Microsoft wants to get with Nintendo next generation.
To eliminate them because Nintendo is in the way of kissing Sony's ass?
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I'm a speculatory person.
Well let me tell you something which Xbox fans have to worry:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/27/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/
Anyway there is no need for Nintendo to team up for now.But they have showed signs of declining already.I don't know how long they can take it because their main threat now nearest to them is MS not Sony.Its either second or third place.The competition will be even more furious in the next generation.Teaming up with their nearest rival is nothing but losing everything.
Post by: DrGAKMAN on August 30, 2003, 11:37:16 PM
Yes...Both Nintendo & Microsoft are getting their graphics LSI's designed by ATi for their next systems. While there are some definate details of how this is working there are still some unanswered questions. Pretty much the general consensus (at the gaming-age.com forums) is that one team (Art-X) is working with Nintendo on their next system's GPU while another ATi team is working on Microsoft's GPU. ATi has said that they're two completly different chips on two different time frames. We know that Nintendo has been working with ATi (the Art-X team) for a long while now so I would suspect that Nintendo's design would be done first as Microsoft only recently made the deal with ATi. There's even speculation that ATi is working on the GBA successor for Nintendo (which would mean that ATi has got a full plate right now). There's also an *assumption* that Microsoft's next box will use an off the shelf next next generation PC graphics card from ATi like they did with nVidia this generation.
Mine and another guys theory at gaming-age is that Microsoft ditched nVidia 'cos they saw what ATi did for Nintendo and are going that route. They may have also done it to open the communication lines a bit wider for a relationship with Nintendo. Let's say Nintendo's chip is near completion and Microsoft and Nintendo are talking. Let's say Microsoft (instead of going ahead with their own seperate chip) they go with a beefed up version of Nintendo's new GPU for their next system...in exchange a partnership with Nintendo. Microsoft & Nintendo split the capital investment (saving them both millions AND pooling their resourses and making it even more powerful) on this chip which would be a sort of universal chip that would be used in both Nintendo's & Microsoft's next systems. Since the chip is universal, developers can code for both systems at the same time with ease and games would be cross-playable on both systems as well. They would have to agree on some key terms like licencing, a format, developement tools and controller/peripheral specifications/compatibility in order to make it work, but if they're both pooling their resources and both teaming up they could get there and by working together they'd get there faster, with a better performing chipset, without competing with one another AND each other's software on one another's systems...all the while without having to spend as much money on getting there since they both shared costs.
So it'd work out like this:
-Nintendo's next system is a gaming-focused machine (cheaper, bare-bones, possibly with an option to be portable)
-Microsoft's next machine is more on the PSX3 level with all the bells and whistles
-Both have a similar chipset core so games run the same on both systems and coding for them is much the same (Microsoft's may be beefed up more since it'll have more non-gaming applications)
-Both companies provide the capital for this universal chipset (thus pooling resources to up the specifications & lowering the individual companies investment loss)
-Microsoft would have their OS running these machines (which is what they really wanted all along (especially in their own set-top-box...Nintendo just makes it easier for them to get more marketshare for it and this shouldn't matter much to give Microsoft this 'cos Nintendo's machine will most likely be gaming-only and thus won't need as hefty an OS))
-Both companies work together to create a standerd universal format from which they split the 3RD party licensing profits 50/50 but don't charge each other to make games for (example: Nintendo gets no money from Microsoft 1ST & 2ND party games and vice versa)
-Nintendo SHOULD have a standerd controller set-up (WaveBird standerd) for both systems (Microsoft can create their own, but come on...even if the buyer chooses the Microsoft hardware, most will still choose Nintendo branded controllers to go with it)
-GameBoy connectivity should work on either platform with games that are compatible with it (all profits from GameBoy games, hardware & connectivity features STAY with Nintendo just as they would if working on their own...Microsoft can't touch this)
-X-BOX Live! should also work with both systems (all profits generated from monthly service fees would go to Microsoft just as they would if working on their own...Nintendo can't touch this)
-A Nintendo online structure can also be set-up for lower-end no-pay LAN-to-online tunnelling services and for those developers who want to make their own networks to profit from seperate from X-BOX Live!
-Microsoft will provide the developement kits (based on the latest DirectX) with much technical advisory from Nintendo when it comes to control set-up, compression techniques, GameBoy connectivity & peripheral compatibility)
-Game saves can be coded to work with either system (Microsoft's system's built-in HD or Nintendo's system's DigiCards)
-Bulk game data can be written on Microsoft's system's built-in HD or on Nintendo's system's SD/DigiCard Adaptor
-Nintendo should make the DigiCard format (most likely thru the controller) to fuction with trading data on Microsoft's machine as well as their own machine
-Microsoft should offer an external HD for Nintendo's system (most likely if Nintendo doesn't have one in their system) for those who might want it
Doing the above means that Nintendo profits from what's rightfully there's (their own games, GameBoy connectivity, controllers/peripherals, etc.) while not having to compromise their gaming-only philosophies in the partnership. Likewise, Microsoft gets their hand in the set-top-box market with Nintendo's support to help garner more users and profits on what's rightfully theirs (their own games, XBL, OS/DirectX dev. tools, etc.). They both conduct business as they normally would apart, the only thing that they partner with and have to agree on is a universal chipset, format & compatibility! Think of it like Nintendo's recent software collaborations...only...it's hardware this time.
Post by: Celebi on August 31, 2003, 12:05:21 AM
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Microsoft would have their OS running these machines (which is what they really wanted all along (especially in their own set-top-box...Nintendo just makes it easier for them to get more marketshare for it and this shouldn't matter much to give Microsoft this 'cos Nintendo's machine will most likely be gaming-only and thus won't need as hefty an OS))
Look at the Dreamcast and where it ended?And Nintendo have to pay royalties to them for using it?
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X-BOX Live! should also work with both systems (all profits generated from monthly service fees would go to Microsoft just as they would if working on their own...Nintendo can't touch this)
I thought the PlayOnline gives more freedom to developers in designing their own networks.Haha Nintendo using DirectX?and get system lockups during gameplay?You are talking as though Nintendo are newbies in game designing that they need easy development kits using DirectX.MS just envy Nintendo because their DirectX sucks.
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Both companies work together to create a standerd universal format from which they split the 3RD party licensing profits 50/50 but don't charge each other to make games for (example: Nintendo gets no money from Microsoft 1ST & 2ND party games and vice versa)
Microsoft doesn't make storage media.They only fund other companies to do it for them.The leaders in optical medias are still Sony and Philips.
Now what ever MS does it will never make their way into the Japanese market as well as the other asian countries believe me.I still remember a picture whereby the japanese were laughing at the Xbox for being so bulky.By the way be it Nintendo and Sony doesn't need them.Sony already has world class partners and Nintendo just won't die because they have many companies with them in Japan.
Post by: Celebi on August 31, 2003, 07:24:38 AM
I can see what will Ati work out if it plans to deliver for 2 companies.Well for Nintendo the ArtX team will design the proprietary console VPU for them and then sell its licensed to Nintendo and NEC to manufacture them.As for Microsoft Ati will manufacture them themselves and design the board exclusively for them.They will probably come out with a pc-like component design again.Haha if its a pc design then I don't see anything revolutionary with it except for a faster P4 P4 processor DDR2 sdram and all that.
Post by: ShutEye on August 31, 2003, 08:06:03 AM
situation.
Whats interesting is that the Moneyline article and other rumours/news about graphic chips suggests that Nintendo may be
further along in its dev cycle than either Sony or Microsoft. Maybe Nintendo will be on time for once.
Post by: DrGAKMAN on August 31, 2003, 09:21:40 AM
I do get a sense of dread coming from Microsoft & X-BOX fans. I mean Sony's been laying the hype out on PSX3 for a WHILE now and Nintendo is very far along in developement of their next system. I heard Microsoft was desperate to get a big holiday seller (like Splinter Cell last year) this year, let alone having trouble with the next system.
I have a feeling though, that despite this, that the X-BOX will be on a rise in people's minds for next generation 'cos of what they've done this generation...but that's only if they can keep it up. If Nintendo is going to go it alone (much more likely than teaming with anyone) again next generation then who's to say they can't widen their 2ND place lead so much as to get alot of notice and then THEY could be on a rise in people's minds in time for next generation. All that and plus they could be very early and should be out for a bit before the competition with their next system.
The problem is, up until then retailers, the media and casual gamers in general will just have this ignoring attitude towards Nintendo. Hate to say it, but Nintendo's image is a big problem for them and teaming with Microsoft is about the best thing they could to fix that instantly in alot of people's minds. But Nintendo has never really been too too concerned about mindshare even since before Sony came into the market. They just continue to do as they do and somehow remain profitable.
Whenever I have these speculatory notions (heh...dreams) I go to grand levels, but now I'm sorta on a recoil in my mind. I mean there would be alot to worry about when teaming with Microsoft:
-The real money is in software and by splitting those profits with another grubby company that would just hurt Nintendo in the long run
-Splitting profits also means splitting control...what if they beat Sony so badly they eventually force them out in a couple generations and thus their format is the leading in the industry...that's when I'm sure Microsoft would start trying to jerk the choke chains on Nintendo like as if they're the leader
-If things didn't work out between them then what?
-Back-stabbing
-Nintendo doesn't need backing, they've got cash, so they don't need Microsoft in that sense at all
-Alot of retailers/gamers/developers just don't respect Nintendo 'cos of their opinions towards the company...would teaming up with Microsoft change alot of these people's opinions...or just some...or worse yet, would these same opinions now look at Nintendo as "selling out" or still the same old kiddie company now b!tched into making games for M$?
-Nintendo still has the strong GameBoy brand...Microsoft shouldn't be anywhere near it...at all
-Microsoft is pretty much dissed for their OS & dev. tools sometimes...would this be what Nintendo would want?
-Nintendo doesn't need Microsoft in the Japanese market, let alone to garner good Japanese support...eventually all those Japanese companies who were PAID to make games for X-BOX this generation will instead focus on Nintendo's next system as their 2ND or (if Sony makes mistakes) even 1ST system ignoring Microsoft 'cos they have no kind of hold in Japan whatsoever
-Speaking of Sony mistakes, if they make them then Nintendo would have to share the glory with Microsoft in "beating" them if it ever came to that
-Nintendo would ultimatly have more control going at it alone, and if they end up with more marketshare it would be THEIRS and not have to be shared
-Nintendo's gaming-only philosophy could be the very one to exploit Microsoft's & Sony's all-in-one philosophy as a weakness in the end...being with Microsoft would only tarnish that philosophy for Nintendo
While I still think this is up in the air (wether they'd get together or not) I think ultimatly (like alot of you here) that Nintendo would rather go it alone again next generation. Nintendo needs to somehow widen the 2ND place gap between them & Microsoft so that coming off this generation they're not seen as "last place" and may be seen as what's hot just in time for the release of their next system. They also need to keep their current GAMECUBE audience happy (the Nintendo Club is a good idea for this) so as to put hope that Nintendo will still be the same ol' Nintendo next generation and will still be around to compete. I really do think that Nintendo still needs a drastic overhaul of their image 'cos their pressense in retail (and rental, believe me, I see it first hand at work) is sadly way behind Microsoft's image/pressense...let alone Sony's! I mean if you were to go into any store you would think that Sony is in first place (which they are), Microsoft is in a close 2ND (which they're NOT...worldwide they're third and they're nowhere NEAR Sony) and that Nintendo is on life support, dead last in the back corner with no mature games and will not be around next generation.
It just pisses me off that the company I work for (Blockbuster) and companies like GameStop (who own all the Babbages', Software Etc.'s, GameStop's & FunCoLand's), G4 and ZiffDavis (who write just about every major video game magazine) are ALL under the opinion that Nintendo is nothing while they praise and worship Microsoft for being slightly ahead of Nintendo in the U.S. with the X-BOX. It's sad that only higher numbers will make them change their opinions of Nintendo, when they themselves are one of the bigger problems in why Nintendo is perceived as dead and therefore have lower numbers. That GameStop clerk pissed me off when he told me: "M Rated games *don't* sell on the GAMECUBE"...MAYBE THEY WOULD IF YOU CARRIED THEM DIPPY!!! And I have this aching feeling that Blockbuster won't carry Nintendo's next system (or even if they do they'll treat it worse than they did this one) and that just makes me sad 'cos there's lots of customers who ask: "why don't you carry more GAMECUBE games?" It's like Blockbuster saying: Dear customer, f*ck you...you bought the wrong system! Oh well...I can't do anything about it...I've tried but they say the same thing to me that every other place does: "games like that don't rent on GAMECUBE"...MAYBE THEY WOULD IF YOU CARRIED THEM DIPPY! It's like everyone who's in power at these companies made up their minds before GAMECUBE even launched that it was going nowhere...and I have a feeling that it'll be the same thing or even worse next generation unless Nintendo talks to these companies dirrectly or starts gaining major marketshare between now and next generation.
Post by: Celebi on August 31, 2003, 10:22:50 AM
If they wanted to just concentrate on software,Sega is a better choice for them to merge with as they will have a wider choice of consoles to design games for.By going with either MS or Sony would mean that they will be only limiting themselves to help only a single console.Why should they offer to help other companies?
Post by: DrGAKMAN on August 31, 2003, 10:53:15 AM
I have heard that NEC is VERY involved with Nintendo's next system, but I've only heard a couple blurbs about Hitachi and I really wouldn't know what they'd bring to the table (I do know they did some CPU work & the GD-ROM drive for the DreamCast). IBM, to me, is in question 'cos no one has talked about Nintendo working with them anymore ever since The CELL had been conceptualized. I did hear a rumor that Nintendo had gotten together (along with NEC) to create the CPU for the next system with Cray SuperComputers and that it would be a 2 T-FLOP performance level CPU (The CELL is only 1 to 1.5T-FLOP's at this point). And as far as the drive goes Matt (from IGN) said it would be DVD based which I would assume would be like full-sized DVD's instead of mini-DVD's. By this time DVD tech. would be so cheap though that Nintendo could be VERY competitive with licencing fees (especially since Sony is most likely going for the newer BRD tech. in PSX3). Nintendo may be hindered by the fact that it doesn't hold as much data or offer writability, but I really dunno if alot of developers are gonna need 23 to 50GB capacities for their games even next generation...it may end up costing them too much to make games of this size which ultimatly backfires on Sony for using it. Plus it would be so cheap to impliment that Nintendo could spend more money on other things like more eDRAM or a more powerful chipset. Who would provide such a drive...hopefully Panasonic again to ensure backwords compatibility, but who knows?
I've compiled a list of facts & rumors to suggest that Nintendo's next system will be a uber-console/portable and would launch in between the PSP & PSX3 with it. I'll post it later once I'm done etching up some conceptual bitmaps of such a system.
Post by: KDR_11k on August 31, 2003, 10:28:05 PM
Post by: Mario on August 31, 2003, 10:31:54 PM
*urge to quote every single post and pull it apart sentence by sentence... rising*
Post by: __nonjagged__ on September 01, 2003, 01:59:30 AM
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Originally posted by: CelebiQuote
The thought behind it is similar to the joining of forces between Suzuki and Kawasaki Motorcycles. Three years ago, if you stated that they would join forces, you would be laughed out of the building. Now, look what has happened. Neither company standing alone could compete with Honda, and both were floundering in their efforts to gain any significant ground.
Well you see they are both Japanese companies whereas Microsoft is American while Nintendo has always been traditionally a Japanese company at heart that grew from a small entertainment company doing card business into what people know today.Rare may have got sold but Nintendo is always considered a valueble asset for tha Japanese when it comes to console gaming business.Imagine all those efforts put into building up Nintendo throughout those many years being just taken away from a foreign company just for money?Quote
And this talk of M$ is "teh greedy M$$ suxxorzz!!111!" is crap. Basically, all issues would be worked out in the contract negotiations. I can see two differing consoles with each having their own "bells and whistles", but having compatibility between them. Revenue sharing, licensing, etc. would be worked out prior.
Look what happened to Nvidia today?Rare just got swallowed by MS..Sega almost got tricked too.So what can Microsoft contribute if they were to teamed up with Nintendo?Cash?Installed base?Technology?Sony can do that too as well as a matter of fact even better in some of these areas.
But think of it that way if Nintendo was to sell out to an American bully by teaming up with MS just for $$ sake, wonder what will happen with the current software community such as SquareEnix,Konami,Capcom,Atlus,SNK react?The fact that why the FF series,DragonQuest did not make it on the Xbox could answer that.Quote
also have a 6-year old daughter. Now, when I only had one console, the kids' choice for games was crap. Now, had I had a console that could offer me games such as Mario, Pikmin, etc, as well as play Halo, Knights of the Old Republic, etc.... the console choice for the older gamer (in my mind) would be a "no-brainer".
Well I think you don't quite understand what most Asian console gamers want.You may want adult oriented real FPS,real action gaming and may think adventure games like MArio,Zelda,Pikmin,Pokemon,Digimon,Akira Toriyama's works i.e
Celebi its nice to know at least someone in this thread knows what theyre talking about.
Gamers dont think straight anymore these days. Clouted judgments at best.
The thought of Nintendo agreeing to a Universal data format with M$ is almost as incomprehensibly naive as Nintendo joining with $ony to produce a system.
$ony owns the gaming market now and in decades to come, fullstop and Im a Nintendo fanboy not afraid to admit it. Biggest install userbase means nothing to me.
$ony's cell chipsets are going to be in just about every mainstream digital appliance, we not talking just set-top-box servers here, were talking electrical appliances, entertainment appliances just about everything that runs off electricity or rechargeable batteries and eventually will talk to each other.
Nintendo does not aim to challenge this (never has) but focus on creating games (and please lets wait to see what new franchises they have promised us before we right them off already) and even now M$ has admited defeat to $ony and is now claiming they will focus on Xbox Live and not launch a handheld to compete with PSP), rather than continue the usual snyde public remarks against Nintendo because M$ is too embarrest to attack $ony directly.
Back on track,
Nintendo has just spent the last 2 generations of consoles staying well away from Universal data formats (CD-ROM, DVD) because Nintendo is more concerned about protected its software it actually creates not just publishes.
Universal data mediums equates only to one thing. The plague we know as PIRACY.
Nintendo teaming up with that other plague that is known as M$ will never happen. M$ platforms are the breeding ground for piracy/hacking/emus etc and everything that Nintendo stands firmly against.
The thought of M$ fanboys intentionally hacking into Peach character models and turning her into a what the mainstream community call it these days "mature character" ie. a topless hooker or something "mature" just boggles the mind at the shortsightedness of these Universal format theorists.
Also teaming up with that plague known as M$ means that Nintendo software would be forced to run on DirectX which is primitive compared to Nintendo's Open GL/Apple Mac type tools.
Other than Celebi who displays signs of intelligent life-form, all these thoughts and theories discussed in this thread are primitive at best, if you research the viability to Nintendo.
In my opinion I think that because $ony is now using IBM (GCN CPU) and M$ is now using ATI (GCN GPU) to systematically dismantle Nintendo at the core, that you guys believe that either one of them want Nintendo to join with them by aquiring the same chip producers when in fact its merely the competition trying to take away the chip producers from Nintendo just as they have taken away the software distribution networks from Nintendo and continually tightening their dirty hands around Nintendo's neck.
Instead of theorists self-claiming Nintendo is aiming to get back the largest install base by not just selling-out but going against a full 2 decades of firm principles for using proprietory software to protect its establishment by using some sort of dodgy Universal format that gets cracked within a year, theorists should wake up and visualise eg. Panasonic developing a more bigger storage of the GOD hybrid which would leave M$ alone with something like a Super DVD format or whatever, where standard DVD could be read on the SDVD format, because as of today M$ cannot afford to create a radical proprietory DISC format thats not mainstream or universal bec M$ had hard enough trouble trying to sell its mainstream format Xbox console.
Nintendo has profitably created proprietory format consoles for the past decades and will do so for as long as it takes to be one of the surviving platforms in this war. Nintendo is willing to sacrifice getting the largest instal userbase as a result of being proprietory.
The question is how long will the other competitors survive if they each take on radically new proprietory formats and are not teaming up (like $ony & M$ did this gen).
Post by: KDR_11k on September 01, 2003, 07:24:48 AM
2. nonjagged: Chip researchers/manufacturers are in high demand. It's not uncommon for them to work for multiple rivalling companies at the same time. I bet there are some manufacturers making both nVidia and ATI chips or Intel and AMD. This has nothing to do with stealing companies. BTW, I've heard a rumor that N works with Cray Supercomputers as well as IBM.
Post by: __nonjagged__ on September 02, 2003, 12:40:27 AM
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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
1. I thought some admin once said "M$" and "$ony" were blocked?
2. nonjagged: Chip researchers/manufacturers are in high demand. It's not uncommon for them to work for multiple rivalling companies at the same time. I bet there are some manufacturers making both nVidia and ATI chips or Intel and AMD. This has nothing to do with stealing companies. BTW, I've heard a rumor that N works with Cray Supercomputers as well as IBM.
Im aware of your points above which I agree to, however the competitors ($ony & M$) will eventually (if Nintendo continues to have an install userbase of more than 10MIL per next-gen platform) give incentives to the chip manufacturers to favor their platform and push aside the "kiddie" stuff hardware.
Weve seen the competing platforms do it with 3rd party software.
They've done it with distribution/retailers to a large extent they will do it with hardware component suppliers if Nintendo continues to be more profitable than the competitors.
M$ is The Borg (spell check).
Post by: MadMan on September 02, 2003, 03:54:09 AM
Post by: DrGAKMAN on September 03, 2003, 08:59:24 AM
It really dazzles me how I read on all kinds of boards the Nintendo-naysaying that goes on. They say in one breath that someone will dump them for something better (PSX3 or X-BOX NEXT) and then they say that Nintendo would be lost and have no one else to go to. To me, it looks like IBM *might* have ditched Nintendo for Sony, but that doesn't mean that Nintendo has no one to turn to. Before the GAMECUBE was made NEC was going to create the CPU for "Dolphin", but something happened and Nintendo used IBM instead. So right there Nintendo has an option for this next generation. Cray is also working on similar CPU tech. to The CELL...do you think that Cray would deny Nintendo (a paying customer) in on it and thusly let their competition (IBM) get more headway into such technology? I beg to differ. Smaller companies SHOULD band together and compete with these giants in order to keep them in check.
Anyways, back on the topic of Microsoft & Nintendo getting together...
I'm beginning to think that Microsoft may be getting slightly desperate. They're not making a profit at all (in fact they're just bleeding) and are struggling with Nintendo for 2ND place this generation and the PSX3 threat makes their struggle in gaming seem bleak on hype alone. I mean the only reason why anyone supports Microsoft in games is 'cos Microsoft pays them to or the Microsoft name helps sell it to people. The stockholders at Microsoft are surely complaining.
I'm not one of those Nintendo fanatics who thinks Microsoft should or is leaving the gaming industry. I just think that them losing SO much money just to get them a close 2ND or 3RD place in people's minds may have not been worth it. Microsoft is an OS company, they're not known for hardware, let alone as an electronics giant like Sony is. They can't do things like Sony can either (create HUGE format standerds or create groundbreaking CPU's) so they may be in a bit of a situation here. I mean they can lose tons of cash next generation (like this one), but how many generations can they continue to do this against two competitors who actually make tons of profits in games instead?
I think their plan of course called for themselves to SPEND tons of cash to make a name for themselves in gaming but also do something else: swallow Nintendo. Nintendo would be a major ASSET to Microsoft in the games business. They tried to BUY them before this generation even started, they've appealed greatly to the N64 audience as the alternative to Sony, N64 was known for it's console FPS's...X-BOX seems to be the FPS console this generation, they aquired RARE (which turned ALOT of Nintendo fans heads), then they go to ATi (one of Nintendo's console partners) and now there's this talk of them "shaking hands" together! To me, this sounds like they WANT Nintendo to help them in their fight against Sony.
Thing is...Nintendo DOESN'T need Microsoft to be and remain profitable. In fact Nintendo would be more profitable to stay far away from Microsoft. Besides, Nintendo could see Micrsoft's desperation to get them working on their system as a sign of weakness for them next generation. I mean, Microsoft NEEDS to do something to appease shareholders and to turn their games business model into a profitable one without having to constantly spend and bleed so much money. Nintendo, on the other hand, doesn't need Microsoft as they've done just as well as them this generation without having to advertise as much, without spending a FRACTION of the money Microsoft has AND against all the "Nintendo iz t3h kiddie" attitude that hangs over them from the gamers, press, developers and retailers. So maybe Nintendo might see Microsoft leaving this industry in a matter of time if they can't get Nintendo to work with them and Nintendo themselves can break away from competing on Microsoft's level for 2ND place and start competing more against the market leader instead.
It'd be funny if Nintendo led Microsoft on like as if they might get together and then instead back down later on (possibly hurting Microsoft's plans). They (as in NOA) could talk with Microsoft like as if it could happen and then say: "nope...NCL doesn't want to"! Of course, if Nintendo did this purposely that might be considered illegal. Oh well, one thing's for sure it's a Sony VS Nintendo game in Japan, why possibly hurt themselves (or help Microsoft) in this region by partnering them? Besides...Japanese developers are gonna eventually shun the X-BOX 'cos it can't get anywhere in the homeland...so Nintendo shouldn't do anything for Microsoft 'cos of this market (and the games that are created here) especially.
I'm more likin' the idea that Nintendo would create a software AND hardware standerd that other companies like NEC, Panasonic & Hitachi could use in their various future products to compete on Microsoft & Sony's level next generation.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 03, 2003, 10:10:26 AM
However the idea of trying to create a console standard is a fantastic idea and I think that it's the exact sort of thing that could really allow Nintendo to compete with Sony. Sony has always gotten their asses whupped by sticking to their own thing while all their competitors follow a different standard. Right now is the perfect time for a standard. Graphics and sound capabilities are right now at such a point where they can't really get noticeably better so a standard console design could easily last for over ten years without developers getting held back by hardware restrictions.
Such an idea would easily help Nintendo's image since different companies would be making different hardware models for different demographics. Don't like the purple Cube Nintendo made? No problem because Panasonic incorporates the console into their DVD players. Where as before Sony was able to use DVD playback as a selling point for the PS2, other electronic companies could now use N5 game playback as a selling point for their DVD players. That alone would easily help Nintendo's userbase because they could use standard electronic devices as a trojan horse to get N5s into people's homes.
The best part about this idea is that Nintendo maintains what they like about being a console maker: control. Though other companies would be free to create N5s Nintendo would get paid royalties and would still be able to get licensing fees for all games developed. Naturally if they teamed with MS they wouldn't have this luxury. The only problem with this idea is that Nintendo would still need to attract third parties to support their standard. In order for the idea to truly take off companies like Capcom, Sega, Namco, Square Enix, EA, and Konami would have to support the machine. Fortunately these deals Nintendo has been making lately with third parties may make it easier to convince these companies to support their design.
Post by: DrGAKMAN on September 03, 2003, 12:19:46 PM
Thanks for posting Ian Sane, I always like your posts.
I agree with some of your points in the last post. #1-Yes I did make it seem enticing for a Microsoft/Nintendo team up, but then I blasted my own wild theories with the simple fact that I saw in everyone elses posts...Nintendo doesn't need Microsoft. The big thing that would help Nintendo by teaming with Microsoft is improving mindshare and appeal...but really...Nintendo should do this themselves their own way and let Microsoft fend for themselves. #2-I totally agree with the point that Sony sticks to their own standerds while ignoring all others even when other companies abandon their formats. Beta, MD, DD-CD, Memory Stick, UMD were ALL created and supplied by Sony and most are or may become failures 'cos of Sony's control-freakness. They could possibly be hurting themselves by making it to where their games can only be played on their machines/formats 'cos another company (like Nintendo) could make their technology available to the giants that Sony compete's against in the electronics world with a universal format that plays across all the systems these companies create. #3-I agree, and as you'll note in past Mr. Iwata quotes, Nintendo agrees that graphics really can't get much better than they are...I mean really, the leap from this generation to the next won't be as big as the leap from PSX/N64 to now...let alone 2D to 3D. Creating a standerd games format now could really work for Nintendo and may make it to where another generation won't start for a while now. #4-Garnering support would be the only problem for such a business model, but I'm sure there's plenty of electronics companies (who are competing with Sony in other electronics markets) who would implement this into their products (for the right price) and thusly, give Nintendo a bigger userbase which would up their 3RD party software support since there's more hardware the games would sell to. 3RD party software especially will grow for Nintendo with deals like Nintendo has been making recently continue. I mean the GAMECUBE may not be competing with PSX2 on even ground BUT it was a system that brought alot of 3RD parties back after the stubborn N64 approach AND it's done alot better for Nintendo in the homeland which can only mean good things next generation. GAMECUBE, to me, was like a bridge system to open up 3RD party relations again after the mistake that was the N64.
Imagine having a choice between a barebones, set-top-box, portable, DVD-RW enabled, iMac or iBook to play "NES Discs" on...that would really broaden Nintendo's audience & userbase.
