Post by: joeamis on July 31, 2003, 08:41:56 PM
that people began to have issues with the controls.
I for one, have absolutely positively notareno no problem with the controls, it's easy in my opinion.
but people continue to complain about not being able to just press a direction and move there.
in my opinion, the reason they have not changed this is because the gameplay of Resident Evil often requires you to walk backwards as you're shooting. So having the controls so that, pressing the way opposite your character is facing is very smart for this. They realized not long after it's release they could make the controls better by incorporating a 180' quick turn, which was an excellent idea.
But people continue to complain, wanting you to be able to move in any direction as you push. The problem here is that if this was done, then the tried and true gameplay, since RE1, of walking backwards as you attack creatures in the game would be destroyed.
So what can be done about this? Well, I've come up with my own simple solution. Change the controls, as the majority of people want it to, to move in any direction. But, by holding down a button on the GC controller...let people walk backwards with their character, just as the old control scheme allowed so. Thereby preserving the classic gameplay and incorporating the new control scheme so many people want.
i also think they should include the old classic control scheme as well, as I have no problem with it.
what do you guys think can be done about this whole mess?
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 31, 2003, 09:05:50 PM
When I played Resident Evil 3 on PSX though, I was forced to play through the entire game with the standard control scheme. During that time, I somehow got used to it, and associated it with Resident Evil games. When I recently played Resident Evil 2 for N64 again, I opted for the classic controls instead, simply because the Mario controls seemed out of place to me now.
In short, the controls take time to get used to, but the people complaining about the controls are most likely just bad players who need an excuse for why the zombie ate them.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 31, 2003, 09:14:18 PM
Post by: joeamis on July 31, 2003, 09:55:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey Ninja
In short, the controls take time to get used to, but the people complaining about the controls are most likely just bad players who need an excuse for why the zombie ate them.
unfortunately every review from game sites/mags i've read complained about the controls and lowered their review scores of the game considerably because of it.
RE 4 is gonna be full 3d movement?, as in... move the way you press?
I hope this doesn't change the gameplay drastically because that could be a result of it... sigh
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 31, 2003, 10:01:30 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 01, 2003, 01:41:57 AM
To be frank again, I've never EVER used backward walking during serious play (not serious would be roaming around rooms to admire the visuals). Since I can't employ a weapon WHILE walking backwards, I didn't find it practical. Furthermore, walking backwards (which I think is fairly slow considering the action) also didn't seem practical when up against the multitude of faster-moving enemies in the two games. The 180-deg quick turn did satisfy my evasion needs well enough. I can control my characters better than I can control RC-cars.
Being able to shoot while retreating would be great; we see it happening in the intro movie of the Remake. Why can't the characters shoot while moving? It might be their law enforcement training: stop, aim, fire. Billy and Barry might be qualified for move & shoot techniques though, given their experience in special-mission units. But it doesn't seem like a reality for the rest of the cast.
I really welcome 3D analog movement. Turning to a specific direction could be quicker and smoother, and provide a fluid 180-deg turn instead of "stop, turn 180-deg, OK now you can run" where your running animation can now begin as your character is turning, not unlike Mario's 180-deg turn where he skids on the ground, turns his face the opposite way while making his initial running steps. However, it shouldn't be like Eternal Darkness where your character seems to instantly spin in the opposite/any direction; animations should convey a proper sense of inertia and footwork.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on August 01, 2003, 02:30:02 AM
IMO both games are still amongst the best available for the cube.
Post by: Gup on August 01, 2003, 03:16:58 AM
And it's not for sure if RE4 will feature 3D movements because of the 3D environments. Afterall, RE: CV had a completely 3D engine, but stayed with the classic RE controls. . . that you could switch to 3D style but it wasn't the default(I think).
Post by: rpglover on August 01, 2003, 05:49:04 AM
i dont like it that much, but it grows on you and i think it is for the better that they have it like that
i would like to see a control scheme like eternal darkness though- those controls were well polished
i guess most have played the REmake- does anyone remember control type C.....
if they had that control scheme i wouldnt mind at all- in fact i loved control type C
you held the R button down to walk, click it to run and control turning with the stick- i liked that control- it worked pretty good
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on August 01, 2003, 07:40:30 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 01, 2003, 12:29:39 PM
I did use Type-C controls in the Remake the first time around, and I liked it too. But when RE Zero came out, Type-C !#$^$%&% disappeared, and I was forced to learn the traditional Type-A style. Since I got accustomed to RE Zero's controls, I only use Type-A now in the Remake for the sake of consistency.
Post by: rpglover on August 01, 2003, 01:02:49 PM
i dont know if it has a dynamic camera confirmed but of the camera angles i have seen thus far in the game they seem to be less static and more dynamic than before
so i wouldnt count out an analog control scheme yet but we shall see
Post by: joeamis on August 01, 2003, 02:17:42 PM
greyninja how did the 3d control work on resident evil 2 N64 with bitmap fixed cameras??
i imagine it was a problem when switching camera angles... how did it work out?
as far as not employing a weapon while walking backwards, yea i didn't do that, but when fighting zombies, or after knocking a creature down, you have time to walk backwards before attacking again and it is much more precise than turning around, running, turning around and employing attack again.
although i admit in some cases the latter works too, both schemes work well in different situations, which really highlights the gameplay/controls of resident evil.
why can't the characters not shoot while walking backwards? well i'm sure that's a programming issue rather than any character related perforcement abilities... meaning they just didn't think of incorporating that into the game at the time.
as far as the proper animation for turning around, well, the turn around move in Eternal Darkness and Resident Evil was employed for really only when the characters weren't already moving (much to do with the gameplay because attacking is made from a standstill, not while you are running around) so they really can't show a proper inertia turn around animation. The games were not designed to have running then a turn around in the middle of a run, so the simple turn around inimation really isn't designed to show the inertia animation. Mario is just the opposite, his turn around is designed for the ability to turn around while already running therefore employing the inertia animation, as you know when mario is standing still this inertia animation is not shown ofcourse. despite all of this, all games in general could do a better job with the turn around animation from a standstill point, they really are a primitive animation compared to everything else.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 01, 2003, 04:09:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: joeamis
please refer to the control scheme as 3d, and not analog control because the 2d controls are already analog....
The classic scheme on the GameCube controller is hardly "analog." It's the same D-pad functionality remapped to the analog stick, which doesn't account for changes in tilt angle -- small tilt angles do nothing, medium-to-large angles produced the same constant walking speed, recreating the same "digital" results. "Analog" refers to generating results of varying degrees as it corresponds to the stick being tilted through a range of varying degrees. The only "analog control" I remember in a GC RE is moving your backup character around in RE Zero using the C-stick, and that enabled him/her to walk when the stick was push lightly, and run when pushed to the edges -- but that doesn't even concern control of the main character at all.
Post by: Molobert on August 01, 2003, 04:30:27 PM
Post by: joeamis on August 01, 2003, 04:52:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: joeamis
please refer to the control scheme as 3d, and not analog control because the 2d controls are already analog....
The classic scheme on the GameCube controller is hardly "analog." It's the same D-pad functionality remapped to the analog stick, which doesn't account for changes in tilt angle -- small tilt angles do nothing, medium-to-large angles produced the same constant walking speed, recreating the same "digital" results. "Analog" refers to generating results of varying degrees as it corresponds to the stick being tilted through a range of varying degrees. The only "analog control" I remember in a GC RE is moving your backup character around in RE Zero using the C-stick, and that enabled him/her to walk when the stick was push lightly, and run when pushed to the edges -- but that doesn't even concern control of the main character at all.
good point, i was more upset about the fact that someone might come to the conclusion that analog control was not supported in the GC RE games at all (meaning you can only use digital pad). You don't have to explain analog to me i'm not that stupid... as far as speed of your character well they didn't include analog in that, but for turning it feels as if they did. If they did include analog for speed of your character though I think it could ruin the gameplay, just imagine trying to walk in the game and turn without having it end up running at some point on you. Or if you needed to run and quickly switch to walking it would be more difficult with analog than digital. For mario this isn't a concern but for precise movements in the confines of small environments this could be cumbersome. Having included it for the 2nd character in RE0 isn't a concern here because you don't come into situations where you need to have them strictly walk while you're controlling the main character or have them run and quickly switch to walking.
Post by: mojorizin on August 02, 2003, 04:58:52 AM
I'm not against better control schemes, but don't want the game to lose its feel and become something else altogether.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on August 02, 2003, 05:35:47 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 02, 2003, 06:56:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: joeamis
greyninja how did the 3d control work on resident evil 2 N64 with bitmap fixed cameras??
i imagine it was a problem when switching camera angles... how did it work out?
Easy. When you went to a new screen, it kept the same controller configuration as the previous screen. Let's say you are running towards the camera, and the camera switches screens when you pass below it, to a camera directly behind you. As long as you kept pressing down on the analog stick, the character would continue moving in the same direction. When you stopped, the controller would reset, allowing you to move according to the new camera angle.
It sounds difficult to get used to, but it really works well in practice.
That being said, I still prefer the classic 2D control.
Post by: KrazyJ1098 on August 02, 2003, 11:00:47 AM
Post by: joeamis on August 02, 2003, 03:38:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: nitsujdark
Walk backards while shooting. Well that is easily fixed, sinc eyou have to arm yourself if RE and not just press action button they can make you walk backwards while your shooting and regualr controls all the rest of time.
yes, but who wants to walk backwards every time they shoot? that would seriously destroy the game, not only would it move you backwards when you go to shoot and make it harder to target characters (also weakening your attack by being farther away), but it would move you backwards into different camera views and totally screw things up.
Post by: joeamis on August 02, 2003, 03:45:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grey NinjaQuote
Originally posted by: joeamis
greyninja how did the 3d control work on resident evil 2 N64 with bitmap fixed cameras??
i imagine it was a problem when switching camera angles... how did it work out?
Easy. When you went to a new screen, it kept the same controller configuration as the previous screen. Let's say you are running towards the camera, and the camera switches screens when you pass below it, to a camera directly behind you. As long as you kept pressing down on the analog stick, the character would continue moving in the same direction. When you stopped, the controller would reset, allowing you to move according to the new camera angle.
It sounds difficult to get used to, but it really works well in practice.
That being said, I still prefer the classic 2D control.
after brainstorming, that is the best i could come up with when thinking about that situation. (the 3d press the way you want to move control scheme, having the controls keep moving you the same way you were moving as you enter new camera angles, until you let go and the controls reset to the new angle), i don't really see how they could use this control scheme and have it work correctly any other way.
that being said, i would still prefer the classic 2d control too
as far as people saying they cannot play with the 2d control scheme, i say give it some time.
it angered me greatly when i let my brother try resident evil 0 and he threw the controller after having difficult trying to control the game, and yelled "this is game $#^$# sucks!", after putting only 5 minutes of play into it.
Post by: nitsu niflheim on August 03, 2003, 04:39:28 AM
Post by: joeamis on August 03, 2003, 12:42:35 PM
like... have regular controls enabled even when you're shooting
oh well, just a miscommunication between us.
Post by: joeyjojo on August 03, 2003, 04:41:18 PM
RE type games have always had this sort of control scheme. from alone in the dark, to bioforge, to Relentless (ok, relentless isnt really in the same genre but the same type of controls applied. more or less.) the controls have always worked for these games. they're not platformers or straight up action games so they have different controls.
now that ive got the bitching out of the way... i dont think that 360 degree analog control is going to help the player in a RE game. when you enter a new camera angle, you need to be sure that you are heading in the same same direction as you were when you left the previous area. because up is ALWAYS forward, you will walk/run into the next screen without a hitch. if foward depends on the context of what camera angle you are viewing from, then you could enter a new area to find yourself moving in a undesireable direction ie. back in the direction you came from, into a wall, OR into a zombie.
the second point i wanted to address is being able to walk backwards. walking backwards can be used to distance yourself from any slow moving enemies approaching you, while facing them. obviously youre not going to use it while engaging a fast moving enemy (DUH!!!!). i think it is also important for cosmetic purposes. i mean, i think it would look silly if your character turned their back on a potentially deadly creature in order to reposition themself for attack. think about it. backing up is a much better option cinematically.
in conclusion, if anyone has ever used a remote control car, they should be able to grasp RE's controls easily, unless you are unco.
Post by: dafunkk12 on August 03, 2003, 05:52:20 PM
Post by: joeamis on August 03, 2003, 06:56:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: joeyjojo
now that ive got the bitching out of the way... i dont think that 360 degree analog control is going to help the player in a RE game. when you enter a new camera angle, you need to be sure that you are heading in the same same direction as you were when you left the previous area. because up is ALWAYS forward, you will walk/run into the next screen without a hitch. if foward depends on the context of what camera angle you are viewing from, then you could enter a new area to find yourself moving in a undesireable direction ie. back in the direction you came from, into a wall, OR into a zombie.
well i have to say next time read all the posts because greyninja explained how resident evil 2 on n64 achieved 360' control, without the problem occuring. I was just playing Lord of the Rings 2T on my GC, and the move the character the same way he was moving, before he switched camera views, when pressing a different direction than he is moving, in the new view, is employed in that game as well.
HOWEVER: the problem with this system though is that you must keep the button down while switching views and sometimes you will find if you want to do other controls once you enter the new view it becomes cumbersome. Even worse, while in the heat of action, you will sometimes have to take a half second to reorient yourself to the new view controls, and when you are fighting and end up switching from one view to the other very fast in quick succession this really hurts the gameplay. on that note, i don't want Resident Evil to switch to 360' control and it pisses me off that every review game/mag complains that the controls need to switch to the 360' control scheme. I hope to god Capcom is not influenced by all these reviewers, and is actually doing testing with us players to see what we prefer because most hardcore fans of RE seem to like the control scheme already in place.
as far as moonwalking in Super Metroid, that was lots of fun, I really think that Capcom just didn't think it was a very worthwhile addition because people would complain it sucks when they back up into another camera view by accident.
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 04, 2003, 11:17:26 AM
But regardless, Resident Evil 4 seems to be completely different. It might be time to rethink the controls.
Post by: joeamis on August 04, 2003, 12:06:38 PM
on that note, I'm gonna check out some video clips of RE4 and see what the controls look to be.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on August 04, 2003, 05:38:59 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on August 04, 2003, 07:28:09 PM
Post by: Termin8Anakin on August 04, 2003, 08:46:16 PM
So for me, RE4 should have a great camera system and great control system.
I turned away from RE for this reason. Diss me if you will, cause I never played the original PSOne/N64/DC games, but hey, this is just my opinion from what I played on the Gamecube.
