Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 29, 2003, 07:32:25 PM
Post by: PIAC on July 29, 2003, 09:19:49 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on July 29, 2003, 09:27:08 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on July 29, 2003, 09:48:37 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 29, 2003, 11:27:38 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 30, 2003, 01:04:59 AM
Post by: Game_Master on July 30, 2003, 03:31:08 PM
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 30, 2003, 03:36:31 PM
you're calling WW??) than you can with OoT style. For example, (this is just me by the way), I honestly can't see the hurricane spin looking very convincing in the OoT format. You can make everything alot more make-beleive with the cartoon.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 30, 2003, 03:50:23 PM
Post by: mjbd on July 30, 2003, 06:11:22 PM
Post by: PIAC on July 31, 2003, 03:00:51 AM
dont take that out of context please
Post by: Lil Ayrill on July 31, 2003, 04:38:16 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 31, 2003, 04:42:43 PM
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 31, 2003, 05:21:06 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 31, 2003, 09:08:07 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 01, 2003, 05:18:37 AM
Post by: Lil Ayrill on August 01, 2003, 07:16:09 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 11:57:33 AM
For one it's unfair toe compare a tech demo made in less than a week to a full fledged videogame that was worked on for something like 2 years, and even then the tech demo still looks great. And secondly, Metroid Prime goes for the super realistic style and I think it's animatio looks fine. Seriously, if ANYONE can make a super realistic visual style work, it's Nintendo. I have complete faith that they'd be able to find a way.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 01, 2003, 01:22:44 PM
Post by: Lil Ayrill on August 01, 2003, 01:26:22 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 01:30:12 PM
The animation was stiff because it was on the N64, man.
Every game had stiff animation in that generation. I thought the animation was wonderfully smooth in the SW2K demo.Ayrill: All they did was crank up the resolution- otherwise, it was a straight port with absolutely 0 other graphical improvements.
Post by: Lil Ayrill on August 01, 2003, 01:37:52 PM
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 01, 2003, 01:42:29 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 01, 2003, 01:53:33 PM
And there's a lot of contradiction between exactly what OoT's style is- you guys here are claiming it was realistic, but a lot of other people say it wasn't. Which is it?
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 01, 2003, 01:57:09 PM
Post by: Klutzy Girl on August 01, 2003, 02:13:36 PM
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 01, 2003, 02:22:58 PM
Post by: Klutzy Girl on August 01, 2003, 02:29:25 PM
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Anyway, if nintendo really enhanced and refined the OoT graphics and made everything alot more, rounder let's say. eg, fixed up links hands it would lokk damn brilliant.
It wouldn't only look da** brilliant! It would look fu*** BRILLIANT!! But WW graphics are still quite cool making it look like a cartoon.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 01, 2003, 07:10:17 PM
Post by: Klutzy Girl on August 02, 2003, 06:48:38 AM
DITTO!
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 02, 2003, 07:02:07 AM
I always loved that shot.Anyways, I think that Wind Waker is truer to the original vision of the Legend of Zelda, and that's why I support it. I like both styles, but the OoT style looks really out of place when you think about the origin of the series, and the concept art that was done back in the day. It just FEELS wrong.
Post by: Klutzy Girl on August 02, 2003, 09:30:01 AM
I don't know which one I like better actually until I see the graphics that OoT had but for the Gamecube. It might look a lot better then WW's graphics. But for now I prefer WW's graphics. Post by: Gup on August 02, 2003, 10:23:12 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 11:01:48 AM
Post by: ThePerm on August 02, 2003, 12:05:59 PM
Post by: Klutzy Girl on August 02, 2003, 01:19:51 PM
Well I haven't seen SC2's graphics but for the one's I have seen the WW's graphics are number 1.
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 01:55:18 PM
Post by: Gup on August 02, 2003, 02:08:00 PM
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Doesn't Link's design in SC2 look a little creepy, though? His eyes and ears are really stretched out- he looks a lot more elfin than in other Zelda games. I'm gonna have so much fun fighting with him.
I think it looks way cooler than his SpaceWorld design, but that's just me I guess.
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 03:18:18 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 02, 2003, 03:23:22 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 02, 2003, 03:30:45 PM
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 02, 2003, 08:07:12 PM
Post by: Klutzy Girl on August 03, 2003, 06:07:22 PM
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 03, 2003, 08:36:28 PM
Post by: PIAC on August 03, 2003, 09:12:36 PM
Post by: Bosrs1 on August 03, 2003, 11:27:25 PM
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 04, 2003, 03:33:43 AM
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because so are things like Lord of the Rings, and yet they have fantasy and realism.
So every fantasy game should be the same? I said that Zelda: Wind Waker was true to the original vision of the game, while OoT was not.
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 04, 2003, 05:57:07 AM
Goody-bye!
Post by: Klutzy Girl on August 04, 2003, 08:56:19 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 04, 2003, 11:14:58 AM
WHAT FRIGGIN "ORIGINAL VISION"?!?!? Sorry about that, but I'm getting really tired of people trying to claim that they know what Zelda's "original vision" was. There's 3 fundamental problems with that: 1, the first game was a bunch of pixels- how *anyone* can glean what it's vision was is beyond me. 2, how can *anyone* claim to know what Miyamoto wants out of the series? For all we know the Oracles are closest to what he wants and Wind Waker is farthest. None of us have even been in the same room as the man, much less in his mind. And 3, even Miyamoto has said they're constantly reinventing Zelda- there IS no "original vision" for the game because it's constantly transcending styles. It was more serious in OoT and it was more comical in Wind Waker- neither is closer to the "original vision" because the "original vision" doesn't exist. The only vision for Zelda is the vision of the future, where the series is going to go *next*, not where it's been. Really, where was all this heartfelt sentiment that OoT was departing from the "original vision" when it was released? All I heard then was immense praise- in fact, that's still pretty much all I hear. If there is any "original vision" to Zelda, I'd say OoT's the one that tapped into since it's not only considered by most to be the best in the series, but the best game *ever*.
If Wind Waker fits what *you* think the series means, then that's great, but don't try to act like you know what the series DOES mean.
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 04, 2003, 01:21:54 PM
Post by: Bosrs1 on August 04, 2003, 02:00:23 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 04, 2003, 02:04:14 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 04, 2003, 03:32:12 PM
I can picture all of Hyrule in cel-shading and it's awseome.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 04, 2003, 07:35:39 PM
Post by: Bosrs1 on August 04, 2003, 08:29:32 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 04, 2003, 08:40:40 PM
Also, to anyone who doesn't think a realistic graphical style would work, I simply direct your attention to Ico- that game is one of the most convincing and atmospheric games I have ever played (probably THE most convincing and atmospheric). Imagine that game with the Gamecube's power.
Post by: Grey Ninja on August 05, 2003, 05:46:37 AM
Gameheadz portrayed the forest where Miyamoto grew up as the birth place of the Legend of Zelda. I don't presume to know that they were speaking the truth, but I am inclined to agree. Many artists take dreams and visions from childhood to directly translate into their art.
But the thing that makes me feel most strongly about the proper style of Zelda is simply Miyamoto's views on gaming, and the previous games he has made. All of his games have had a familiar feel about them. They are all lighthearted, and very cartoony at heart. I mean, look at A Link to the Past, and compare it to Wind Waker. The graphical style of the games are very similar. Hell, compare Pikmin, Mario, LttP, and Animal Crossing to Zelda: OoT. can you spot the oddball there?
Miyamoto once said that after creating the SpaceWorld 2000 demo for Zelda, he really didn't like Link or the series anymore, and that's why he felt he had to bring the franchise back to its roots.
As far as reinventing Zelda goes, I think that has to do with the setting and plot of the game. The game's setting was very different from earlier incarnations, and the plot was much more deep and epic in scope.
The thing is that when I play the game, I can literally feel the spirit of Miyamoto behind it. I don't care if Shiggy makes 100 games more, I will always cherish Zelda: Wind Waker as Miyamoto's greatest achievement.
Now, I will admit that when I first saw the Zelda trailer alongside the Mario Sunshine trailer, I wasn't impressed at all. I hated the style, and I didn't like the game at that moment. I grudgingly grew to accept it, but when I saw the E3 trailer that Nintendo posted on their site, it was love at first sight. The second trailer was presented in a very different way, and it showed more of the game and its style to me.
Post by: DRJ on August 05, 2003, 06:01:47 AM
Although graphics are a great first impression, thats all they are. Gameplay is what will keep bring you back. And the bottom line is that WW is absolutely fun to play. I just finished it a second time in my PJs and completed the Nintendo Gallery (I was sooo worried when I fought Puppet Gannon 'cause I needed his pic and you cant leave the area after fighting him without saving. Fortunately at least one of the three pics I took was good).
This game was sooo good infact that the sequel is a definate purchase for me nomatter what any previews or reviews say about it. I'm already sold.
For GCN there is only one game that I like better than WW and that is MP just because it was more difficult.
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 05, 2003, 06:14:50 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on August 05, 2003, 08:52:33 AM
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The original vision is the artwork done for the original Legend of Zelda, and the "feel" of the first 3 games.
The first 3 games were VERY different from each other- Adventure's of Link was an action oriented side scroller for crying out loud. If that's the vision of the series, then I'm right that it's constantly reinventing it's style.
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Gameheadz portrayed the forest where Miyamoto grew up as the birth place of the Legend of Zelda. I don't presume to know that they were speaking the truth, but I am inclined to agree. Many artists take dreams and visions from childhood to directly translate into their art.
Miyamoto said he got the inspiration from Zelda from his days exploring the forested area around where he lived as a child. He said one day he was hiking through the hills and came across a huge lake he had never seen before and thought it was amazing something so massive could be so close and he never knew about it. THAT'S what Zelda is about, exploration.
Quote
But the thing that makes me feel most strongly about the proper style of Zelda is simply Miyamoto's views on gaming, and the previous games he has made. All of his games have had a familiar feel about them. They are all lighthearted, and very cartoony at heart. I mean, look at A Link to the Past, and compare it to Wind Waker. The graphical style of the games are very similar. Hell, compare Pikmin, Mario, LttP, and Animal Crossing to Zelda: OoT. can you spot the oddball there?
So why should Miyamoto be constricted to only one specific style? Why does everything he makes have to be lighthearted? He had a major hand in the development of Eternal Darkness, yet that's not lighthearted. Majora's Mask had a very dark undertone to it. Miyamoto doesn't have to do the same thing over and over again.
Quote
Miyamoto once said that after creating the SpaceWorld 2000 demo for Zelda, he really didn't like Link or the series anymore, and that's why he felt he had to bring the franchise back to its roots.
He never said that- people misread an interview or something and took it to mean that. He said that he felt the SW2K demo was just more of the same and wanted to do something different. Wind Waker does not resemble Zelda's roots in any way.
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As far as reinventing Zelda goes, I think that has to do with the setting and plot of the game. The game's setting was very different from earlier incarnations, and the plot was much more deep and epic in scope.
No, it's the style too- look how many styles the Zelda series has transcended and try to tell me all they changed, or wanted to change, was the plot and setting. That's bull crap
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The thing is that when I play the game, I can literally feel the spirit of Miyamoto behind it. I don't care if Shiggy makes 100 games more, I will always cherish Zelda: Wind Waker as Miyamoto's greatest achievement.
I kinda have to disagree. : | WW is an incredibly good game, but I feel that special Miyamoto touch much more strongly in his other games (especially since he wasn't the guy who made Wind Waker).
Post by: theRPGFreak on August 05, 2003, 02:08:37 PM
Post by: DRJ on August 05, 2003, 02:17:16 PM
The whole theme of the game is sailing on the ocean.
Next you will say the game is so redundant because in every Zelda game you have to get the Master Sword and the Triforce over and over again (with some exceptions).
"They also closed the pages of Ganondorf and Hyrule for good!"
Ganondorf's body didnt explode at the end, it just turned him to stone. He can come back when someone removes the Master Sword.
Post by: theRPGFreak on August 05, 2003, 02:20:44 PM
Post by: DRJ on August 05, 2003, 04:34:07 PM
I dont think that Ganon will be back in the sequel, but will return on a futre game for the next system.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 05, 2003, 04:34:34 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 05, 2003, 08:52:45 PM
Post by: theRPGFreak on August 06, 2003, 08:32:16 AM
This is all a possibility, but I heard in a interview with the creator of Wind Waker say that now that the book of Hyrule has been "closed for good", he wants to do something new with the Zelda series. While I am all for this, ending Hyrule did not turn well as I was hoping for.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 06, 2003, 08:44:05 AM
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 06, 2003, 02:00:37 PM
