Post by: Gamebasher on July 04, 2003, 10:26:42 AM
Go read it for yourselves, and then call or write Nintendo, or show up on their doorstep demanding action now, guys! This is a quite serious situation... If anyone in this forum has some way of getting this article´s message to Nintendo´or at least get a Nintendo insider to read it - it would be very very good for Nintendo indeed.
And please...no fanboy rants, ok? This editorial is to the point and is NOT exaggerated!
Here´s the link: www.n-sider.com/index_content.php?page=features/nintendomojo.htm.
Gamebasher.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 04, 2003, 10:41:58 AM
I have nothing at all to add.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 04, 2003, 10:57:45 AM
Post by: Gamebasher on July 04, 2003, 11:06:11 AM
Just try to give some respect to the people, who write such great information. Even though you may know of this, a lot of people don´t! They, like me, are concerned for the future of Nintendo, so let´s all give this some serious attention, OK?
Gamebasher.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 04, 2003, 11:12:19 AM
Post by: Bartman3010 on July 04, 2003, 11:34:36 AM
They already promote 3rd party titles. In fact, a recent commercial has Soul Calibur 2, even though they're promoting the fact that Link is in it, its the only commercial out there showing off Soul Calibur 2.
Post by: DRJ on July 04, 2003, 01:14:47 PM
They slam Nintendo for trying something new like connectivity with handheld, and slam them for not trying something new like online gaming (which by the way is not a success for any console yet). It actually called Nintendo arrogant for promoting things like connectivity and new graphics like in zelda ww.
Nintendo makes great games, and they make a great system to play them. They have their problems which they are addressing. The GCN got a bad image from the start, but steps are being made, and the next generation should be better for them.
As for third party support, if a new game is made well, it will sell well. If a well known game is released it will sell well. Maybe it will sell better on ps2, but they have 40 million more people with systems out there so naturally it will sell better, but companies can still make money with games on GCN.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 04, 2003, 02:00:58 PM
I didn't even bother reading the article. I've seen plenty of it (too much, actually) on this board.
Post by: DRJ on July 04, 2003, 02:48:15 PM
Quote
DRJ, online gaming is by no means new.
It is new to consoles. There have been some online games for a console, but very few. It is by no means mainstream yet. I also would prefer games be played over a lan since you can play online for free. I dont want to pay a monthy fee just to play a game that I already paid for.
Post by: The Doc on July 04, 2003, 02:57:55 PM
The Doc
Post by: Artimus on July 04, 2003, 03:54:57 PM
Arrogant!? Um...no? How about they did it to create the best Zelda game in a long while. Idiotic statement.
"While not an admirable face of the casual gamer, a great way to his or her wallet is through his or her eyes [or a Pokemon sequel. Those little critters always sell.]"
I thought Nintendo couldn't afford to be kiddie?!
"Gamers today want edgy, realistic games. Nintendo could expand its own audience if it were to spend more time on the production value - graphics, music and game length - of its own games rather than releasing Nintendo 64 ports and remakes."
WHAT N64 ports and remakes!? The only one I can think of is Ocarina. Did I miss a generation?
"Ultimately, Nintendo's entire image would require a makeover."
I thought they needed more 3rd party support...
" But they let Sega do it...and of course Sega can't do anything right."
Except make what was JUST called an "incredible RPG".
"Speaking of which, the Nintendo 64 was heaven for Wrestling games. It was heaven for the First-Person-Shooter. It was heaven for Platformers. PlayStation 2 and Xbox have all but taken that away while Nintendo stands by idly watching."
Umm...last time I checked, Nintendo still owned platformers...
"And if not, the world isn't going to end, nor will dolphins become extinct, but Nintendo may very well itself, need to go third-party."
I thought this was an article about what Nintendo is doing wrong, not about Nintendo turning third party! And HELLO, if they're making money, why go third party!?
"As long as Nintendo can keep third-parties satisfied and continue building healthy relationships, we may see a happy ending to this story afterall. It's only a matter of time before the timer on the oven beeps, and our Ninten-dough becomes something more."
Huh!?
Ok, so obviously it's a stupid article. It's an ANGRY article, and you should never write while angry.
Post by: rpglover on July 04, 2003, 04:35:14 PM
i agree with mouse clicker that the article was written well, but it just outlined the exact same points we have been hearing for a while
the problem i have with third party games is that they are not always good
i only buy games that i like the best- most ea games are good, ubi soft is good, konami, capcom, factor 5, and many others
i think that is where a problem comes in as well- people sometimes know that certain games are bad so they do not buy them
but mostly it is nintendo's fault for not pushing these games much more
but i do see a change now- just recently nintendo has been pushing commercials highlighting games due to release later this year
thats the type of ads nintendo needs to do- push their games and others into the advertising world before they come out to generate hype
and that is basically what the article said- the part about brute force- its an alright game, its fun but nothing too special, but the hype and advertising microsoft pumped into it made it the fastest selling xbox game so far (in the first couple of weeks in sales)
i just hope nintendo keeps up this change and hopefully does not lag behind on their next console launch
Post by: ReallyScrued on July 04, 2003, 05:00:05 PM
Post by: Ichrider on July 04, 2003, 07:45:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ReallyScrued
artimus u just said everything on my mind....and now im so sry i sent an email to nintendo...I JUST LOVE THEM TOO MUCH IS THAT A CRIME!!! OH I WISH I HAD MY DEAR DAYS ON N64 BAK WHERE WE PLAY WRESLTEMANIA 2000, PD AND GDEYE ALONG WITH THE OCCASIONAL SSB TILL THE MOON TURNED BLUE!!!
Amen to that! I remember wasting hours of my life playing Goldeneye and Smash Bros. until it was hours into the night. As for the article, it contained nothing new. We all know that stuff and frankly it's not fair to criticize Nintendo. They can't help it if they continue to create the best games on the system. They should be settting an example for others and not deterring other companies in that manner. If you want to make your game compete, then the third parties need to take it up a notch. Simple as that.
Post by: Cooolcorey on July 04, 2003, 08:14:49 PM
How is Nintendo not making new ideas? How was Pikmin not new? How was Luigi's Mansion not new? How was Metroid Prime (GAME OF THE YEAR!) not new? Miamoto says the next Mario game will be VERY innovative- meaning new. This guy needs to get his facts straight.
"There isn't the same level of demand for the kind of software Nintendo supplies as there used to be. Nintendo has changed its attitude since the days of the Nintendo 64. The Nintendo 64 was plagued by constant software delays and sparse releases. This was one of the first things Nintendo's new president, Satoru Iwata, has set out to solve for the GameCube and future Nintendo consoles. Previously, Nintendo would ignore deadlines and important sales windows to achieve perfection in its games. Nintendo now recognizes the lack of consistent game releases as a mistake.
But now it is making yet another, new mistake. This generation, Nintendo has become far more disciplined in its release of software. Unfortunately this comes at the expense of some of the waxed shine - like aged wine - that we have come to expect from Nintendo's games. The games don't feel as complete or as balanced as they did in the past. That perfection of former generations has been lost."
These two paragraphs are completely paradoxial. What does this guy want?
"Nintendo should have been pushing the recent release of Splinter Cell, but instead Microsoft and Sony got a hold of it. Nintendo should've pushed the heck out of Skies of Arcadia Legends. It's a shame too. Skies is an incredible RPG that the other consoles don't have. But they let Sega do it...and of course Sega can't do anything right."
Didn't he just say that Nintendo shouldn't be pushing for ports?
"I see all these commericials on TV for Xbox's Brute Force. Regardless of whether or not the game is actually any good, that image is what is helping the Xbox gain a lead over the GameCube. A steady stream of edgy games could remove the GameCube from this rut (in PAL territories and North America anyway)."
This statement, I completely agree with.
"And if not, the world isn't going to end, nor will dolphins become extinct, but Nintendo may very well itself, need to go third-party. Going back to its roots and concentrating on games, not market requests, may be the only solution. Even then - take a look at Sega for an example - not all of its problems will be solved. Such drama."
Ok, Nintendo has taken steps so that it doesn't lose $2 billion on it's console unlike another console. Nintendo is MAKING MONEY on it's console. It is MAKING MONEY on their games. Why would they stop production of something they are MAKING MONEY ON? Not concentrating on market requests? He just said to watch what Sony and Microsoft do because they go with the market. And the Sega comment? Sega tried it's hardest to make it's customers happy in every way- pushing hard for online gaming, having the most powerful console of it's time, and providing many games, which is perfectly fine, but THAT is the reason Sega is where it is now. If Nintendo did all that stuff, then yeah, Nintendo would be out of business, but they're NOT, yet that's what you want them to do? And on a side note, what's up with dolphins becomming extict?
Post by: DarkView on July 04, 2003, 09:08:31 PM
They are forgetting the reasons why people like Nintendo in the first place, because they offer games that arent souless money makers. I turn on a PS2 and I know Im going to see some badcore flavour of the week game all my friends are playing, but when I turn on the GameCube I expect something Im going to want to play again.
What this article suggests (At points), is that Nintendo should be making games that we buy on impulse then throw away when the next comes along.
If Nintendo did do that, it would probably just end up making them look like posers. Like when your perants try to sound cool. It would probably end up killing Nintendo since the people who love Nintendo now would hate it, and the people its trying to impress would laugh at it.
I agree that they need to do something about 3rd party support, but the problem lies in the fact that they have to make good games at the same time. They cant simply drop everything to impress third parties like Sony or Microsoft can.
They could really get behind 3rd party games, but that would mean they couldnt put as much behind their own games. Its a tough place to be.
The other reason I dont like the article is they make it sound like its Nintendos fualt they are in this situation. Naturally part of the blame falls on them, but what the article fails to mention is that Nintendo lost a huge market share due to PS1 pirating. Every man and his dog had a PS1 for the cheap games, and thus it became cool to have a sony. They make it sound like Nintendo has just been sitting back and letting cracks form in its empire. Nintendo have been trying to patch up the cracks, but its a hard battle to win.
Anyway, Im ranting, so I'll just wrap it up here.
Post by: VideoGamerX on July 04, 2003, 09:49:18 PM
Whether Shigeru's plan really made a difference in sales is hard to judge. Marketability of his game ideas is important, though. His aim is to appeal whether we realize the final product appeals to us or not. It gains our interest somehow. I think most of us would agree.
Post by: Lecter on July 04, 2003, 11:43:22 PM
No offense to anyone on this board, everyone that is writing 2-3 paragraphs saying the comments written by N-Sider are totally wrong is 100% stupid. Nintendo hasn't evolved and that is TRUE. Same games every system release Mario and Zelda with just updated graphics and new things. Nintendo hasn't taken any chances. People say OH Viewtiful Joe is gonna rock! Yeah it probably will but the majority of gamers out there wont buy it, and as good of a game it is, sales wont do so great in the US. Same with Metal Gear Solid and FFCC. Those are just a few games you cant expect total change with 3 games. Nintendo hasn't pumped out the big titles and if you say they have, wheres the proof in SALES. Yes I love Nintendo and grew up on it, but I hate the direction they are going and I know people see it, they just dont want to admit it. The GameCube isnt even close to a failure but its not a true Nintendo system.
Post by: Mario on July 05, 2003, 12:00:22 AM
Post by: Hemmorrhoid on July 05, 2003, 04:30:25 AM
BUT, whats important is that pretty much all of the aspects criticized are presumably being tackled by Nintendo right now, which you see in their more aggressive aims for GCN2.
So both of you those that agree or dont with the author, just dont take it so seriously.
Post by: Cooolcorey on July 05, 2003, 05:31:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lecter
"It changes each generation. Despite the company's 20 years of experience in the industry, Nintendo has simply failed to evolve. It's still stuck in a mind set of "yesterday"."
No offense to anyone on this board, everyone that is writing 2-3 paragraphs saying the comments written by N-Sider are totally wrong is 100% stupid. Nintendo hasn't evolved and that is TRUE. Same games every system release Mario and Zelda with just updated graphics and new things. Nintendo hasn't taken any chances. People say OH Viewtiful Joe is gonna rock! Yeah it probably will but the majority of gamers out there wont buy it, and as good of a game it is, sales wont do so great in the US. Same with Metal Gear Solid and FFCC. Those are just a few games you cant expect total change with 3 games. Nintendo hasn't pumped out the big titles and if you say they have, wheres the proof in SALES. Yes I love Nintendo and grew up on it, but I hate the direction they are going and I know people see it, they just dont want to admit it. The GameCube isnt even close to a failure but its not a true Nintendo system.
I'm not angry or anything, I just want you to know that this guy wrote some things that are completely pardoxial. He expects Nintendo to change to fit the market, but he expects them not to be like Sony and Microsoft. Yes some of his points are valid, I quoted one in my above post, but many of the things he said can't be done, simply because he turned around and said not to do them in the next paragraph.
Post by: Darc Requiem on July 05, 2003, 07:45:50 AM
Darc Requiem
Post by: Artimus on July 05, 2003, 07:57:49 AM
Post by: WesDawg on July 05, 2003, 09:07:57 AM
Post by: XMasterLinkX on July 05, 2003, 11:35:31 AM
XMasterLinkX(The Real Link)
Post by: Don'tHate742 on July 05, 2003, 11:52:14 AM
There are so many good games coming out I can't even count them on two hands. Now try and do that with any other system, no really try, I dare you. Nintendo is doing fine...
Post by: XMasterLinkX on July 05, 2003, 12:12:00 PM
XMasterLinkX(The Real Link)
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 05, 2003, 12:12:28 PM
From what I read out of the quotes in Artimus's post, this guy is an imbecile. You people are saying that he's making good points, but I fail to see more than two or three. He is extremely opinionated (and in the case of facts, often wrong), and it seems all he's doing is bashing Nintendo as much as he can while still trying to make the article seem official. The few good points I see are about third party support and advertisement; both of which Nintendo is working on. Also, in the third party support bit, he mentions that they're supporting three games, and that supposedly is not enough. Nintendo is obviously supporting much more than that (note, he has listed one of the Capcom 5, but didn't bother mentioning the others). What I saw about advertising is right, Nintendo does need more, but they're starting to do more.
All in all, this article wasted my time. I'm going to go play Wind Waker.
Post by: Smadte on July 05, 2003, 12:49:53 PM
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on July 05, 2003, 01:40:06 PM
Just keep ond demanding games and Nintendo will keep on supplying them. Simple as that.
Post by: Mannypon on July 05, 2003, 02:50:26 PM
thats true but I dont see no reason for nintendo to evolve. Nintendo is the pinacle of a video game company. If you look at the big picture you can understand. Nintendo puts out money making systems and money making games. Practically everything they do is top notch and I mean it in the gameplay sence which is what really matters. Just look at sony, sony is nothing without its 3rd party support and let me not even get into microsoft who's only chance of competing is buyin out companies to fill in their gaps.Sony and microsoft basically just build a canvas for everyone to work on. Sony doesnt make much great games with the exception of gran turismo and I cant even think of any microsoft developed game that is worth mentioning. Nintendo doesnt evolve? How does anyone figure that when they were the first company to establish shoulder buttons on a controller, 4 controller ports on a system, rumble support on controls and analog sticks. I aint completely sure bout all this but I'm almost completely posotive nintendo was first on all these fronts. Nintendo practically invented true platformers and then reinvented it again with mario 64, bringin everyone truly into the 3rd dimension of gaming. If nintendo isnt evolving then I need to look up the word's definition to see whats goin wrong here.
Post by: alvinaloy on July 05, 2003, 03:21:11 PM
Nintendo knows when it needs to evolve, not us. Besides, different companies employ different stretegies and policies. For Sony, it's 3rd company support. For MS, it's buying over the competition. For Nintendo, maybe they're more comfortable with making their own games. They're doing fine right now, so why do they need to mimick Sony's stretegies?
But no doubt, having more 3rd party support will definitely improve Nintendo's popularity. But seeing the number of crap games which are out for PS2, I'm not sure...
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on July 05, 2003, 05:11:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lecter
No offense to anyone on this board, everyone that is writing 2-3 paragraphs saying the comments written by N-Sider are totally wrong is 100% stupid.
You mind if I say that you are 100% stupid for saying what you said in YOUR post?
Post by: Lecter on July 05, 2003, 06:27:22 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 05, 2003, 06:45:49 PM
Post by: Cooolcorey on July 05, 2003, 07:12:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lecter
Dont mind at all thats your opinion, but Nintendo is infact in trouble, look how many units its shipping to prove it. The comments that were written may be harsh, but most of them are true. People just dont want to accept facts, thats up to them but the truth is Nintendo is not the master of games as it used to be. People are very disapointed in the GameCube.
It doesn't matter how many "units" are shipping if they are making money on them instead of losing money, and that is in fact the case. Not the master of games? You're nuts! I'll let the other forum members flame you to death. Dissappointed in the GameCube? Whatever.
Post by: Moonwatcher on July 05, 2003, 07:45:25 PM
Post by: alvinaloy on July 05, 2003, 08:55:25 PM
QuoteSo what if Nintendo is shipping less units than PS2 or Xbox? For every 10 units that Xbox sells, Gamecube only needs to sell 1 or 2 for the same profits. That's if Xbox is rolling in profits for MS. People are disappointed in the Gamecube? Guess 'people' means you cos I ain't disappointed in it.
Originally posted by: Lecter
Dont mind at all thats your opinion, but Nintendo is infact in trouble, look how many units its shipping to prove it. The comments that were written may be harsh, but most of them are true. People just dont want to accept facts, thats up to them but the truth is Nintendo is not the master of games as it used to be. People are very disapointed in the GameCube.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 05, 2003, 08:57:11 PM
Post by: Cooolcorey on July 05, 2003, 09:01:24 PM
I don't see how logic is stupid. What is stupid is having fantasy ideas that you can go on incessantly blabbering about just to garner attention, even if they go against logic, sane business decisions, and everything Nintendo has said. Obviously you are not mature enough to make such decisions, don't take this personally, since most people aren't. I'm not saying I'm an expert or anything because I am in no way an expert, but I can see what Nintendo is doing.
Post by: Mannypon on July 05, 2003, 09:35:41 PM
"People just dont want to accept facts, thats up to them but the truth is Nintendo is not the master of games as it used to be"
Nintendo still is the master of games as it used to be, the only difference now is that games have blown up and become commercial. The general public and average consumer are all bout flash and no substance, they fail to appreciate the level of quality in nintendo's games. In this type of market, it can twist people's vision and make people think nintendo aint the company it used to be but the real truth of the matter is that games now sell by the coat of paint on it and not what lies withing, just look at how the matrix game sells a few million just off the title and graphics whereas eternal darkness still goes by unpurchased when its sellin for a dirt cheap 15 dollars. You can even tell that fact by watchin commercials, the majority of video game commercials are of cinematics and not of actual gameplay becuase publishers know that thats whats goin to catch the consumer. Gamecube commercials are the only ones that always show gameplay footage durin its runtime. The day nintendo leaves the video game business (probably not in my lifetime) is the day of video game's steep decline into mediocrity. Forgive ma spellin lol, I aint on point as I used to be lol.
Post by: ruby_onix on July 06, 2003, 12:35:00 AM
But, instead of commenting on some of it, I feel like commenting on something else that the editorial brought up.
Quote
"Why are we to develop games for platforms that do not supply appropriate yields? We still support PS2 and Xbox, but Nintendo? No, not in the foreseeable future."
-Rod Cousens, CEO Acclaim
Does anyone else see something absurd about this logic?
It's like:
"PS2? 30 million units? Sure, we'd love to develop for that!"
"XBox? 5.5 million units? Sure, we'd love to develop for that!"
"GameCube? 4.5 million units? I dunno... That doesn't really seem like enough. No, we can't afford to do that."
It just makes no sense to me.
Post by: Mario on July 06, 2003, 12:45:49 AM
Post by: nonjagged on July 06, 2003, 07:23:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
That article said it all.
I have nothing at all to add.
http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=4894
thecubedcanuck would you be related to the above journalist?
Dear whats-best-for-Nintendo-know-alls aka Trolls. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Nintendo's strategies. If you want predominately dodgy, shallow, boobs, gore, as your core entertainment, gamers are more than welcome to chose PSX or PC which do accept more of those cheap attributes in an effort to attract attention within the competing piles of releases.
Nintendo will never chase endless 3rd party support for its consoles to be "number 1" because Nintendo knows the endless 3rd parties couldnt provide the quality to match Nintendo 1st-2nd party software and endless 3rd parties is no substitute for being a gaming-only platform.
The top 10 ranked 3rd party developers in Japan are more than adequate to provide software for Nintendo's consoles. They are eating out the palm of Nintendo's hand. Ask Hideo Kojima what his favourite platform is and he will smile GBA, likely because it allows him to replay classics of past generations.
Know-all Nintendo analists should comprehend that Nintendo will never ever regain "number 1" position because Nintendo is a gaming company with gaming-only platforms.
Previously before the 3DO, all gaming platform specialised in just gaming. If a particular platform sold better than another platform the reason was because the platform had more popular game software, not the biggest software library.
Nowdays many more factors influence platform sales like, lack of competition during launch, and Multi-media playback, and lack of piracy protection due to using a non-proprietory data medium ie a mainstream data format.
Nintendo will never, ever retain "number 1" console platform sales positions because Nintendo is no longer up against other gaming-only platforms like Sega Saturn, Nintendo is up against Multi-Media platforms that appeal to more than gaming-only markets and in general any mainstreamers wanting some form of entertainment like eg. Karaoke etc.
We have established Nintendo is a gaming-only company since 200 years ago when they painted sea-shells as a form of a game.
Gamer's wishing for Nintendo to drop it's modern-day digital-gaming protective proprietory data mediums (ie. proprietory cartridges or proprietory GODiscs as apposed to mainstream formats like CD-ROM or DVD) should quit while they are behind in their thinking.
It is imparative that Nintendo focuses on maintaining adequate protection of its franchises/software it actually develops, while Nintendo leaves it up to immitators like $ony & M$ to fight it out who gets the bigger install userbase or more importantly who gets the bigger amount of console unit sales to go with their over-inflated ego & power-control.
Its not hard to figure that $ony once in partnership with Nintendo, had visions of creating multi-media entertainment units to support $ony Pictures & $ony Music industries which Nintendo did not want to take part of.
Contrary to popular belief or mainstream thinking, the next Nintendo platform will not have DVD playback. It will not have HD-DVD or Super DVD or whatever the format you want to call it. It will be proprietory. It will be a gaming-only however will offer more than just Handheld connection. Nintendo's future is incorporating newer ways of interacting with digital games. Future generations of Nintendo platforms will support connection wireless VR headset connection or holographic projectors which light-up a room at night.
What the future Nintendo platforms will not do is play DVD, or manage digital photography, or require Credit Cards, or HDD record TV broadcasts of public station Movies, just as Video Hire franchises have done biased deals to favour one multi-media platform over the other.
Heck one would cringe if Pay-TV services start getting bias and do deals to have built-in receivers in the next-gen multi-media platforms.
HDD Record Live Pay-TV broadcasts of Robbie Williams in concert on the next Xbox platform or HDD Record Live Pay-TV broadcasts of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (Directors Cut, Super Digitally Enhanced, Tweaked to the Max version 12.3) on the next Psx platform, is not my idea of gaming entertainment.
For me I couldnt care less if $ony or M$ block the distribution of software in Video Store franchises or team up with Pay TV service providers to create the ultimate set-top-box, because Nintendo is and will be forever a gaming-only platform company, and where the software that is actually created by Nintendo 1st-2nd party developers is actually worth buying in the first place. Nintendo will not be a pimp to the latest mainstream data format and pay fees to consortiums. Nintendo makes its own software on its own format.
So in reality, for me at least, I cant relate to the weekly posts that offer advise for Nintendo on how to run their 2 century old business and how to be "number 1" in sales. But that could be just me.
To me Nintendo was "number 1" as soon as they proved their phylosophy of delivering realtime gaming entertainment and launched a disc based software medium that has practically realtime load-times.
So in my eyes Nintendo won this generation "console wars" regardless of its total units sales figures and regardless of its eclipsing size of 1st party software and regradless of whether it takes its software online or not.
I am a gamer. Nintendo & my PC satisfy my needs better than anything else available.
I wont plead with Nintendo to mimmick the other mainstreamers for the sake of being universally accepted or pirate friendly.
Nintendo makes billion$ using proprietory formats, image if Nintendo just released its software on mainstream mediums such as CD-ROM and DVD and heck why not throw in a DVD recorder not just player, then it (Nintendo) would possibly make Trillion$. Oh well I guess billion$ is more than adequate.
Nintendo's biggest obstacle is its fanbase acting like trolls and the mainstream market that dont have the time to play huge games.
The following link is a prime example of a clueless troll.
http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=4894
Oh and in my opinion if Nintendo launched first in the next-gen with launch support from Square-Enix (FF & DQ) and Konami (MGS or SH) that alone is enough to equal getting launch support from 50 x 3rd parties.
With Nintendo platforms its all about quality not quantity. We must learn to deal with it.
3rd parties cant compete on a quality platform like Nintendo's and they sure wont waste their time when the ps2 already had a larger userbase which can make them money as theres a better chance they will get mainstream suckers buying their quite-often lower quality games.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 06, 2003, 07:47:41 AM
Mouse_clicker, I don't think Nintendo is underperforming in any way. Though it's a valid point, and you cannot dismiss it like you did, I generally ignore the profit excuse. It seems that Nintendo tailors particularly to my needs. Every game they make, I like. I can't help it. It's as if Nintendo is making every game especially for me.
Heck, maybe that's why they're so far behind the PS2. I'm a very. . . unique individual.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 06, 2003, 07:53:18 AM
Post by: ThePerm on July 06, 2003, 10:07:36 AM
Post by: Cooolcorey on July 06, 2003, 12:03:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
ill second mouse_clickers blah blah blah. Nintendo makes too much money to go third party and really Nintendo needs to really distance themselves fropm sega or prove their way better then sega by purchasing them.
Buying someone doesn't necessarily mean you are better than them. I mean, Microsoft bought Rare, but in no way does that mean that Microsoft is better than Rare. But yes, Nintendo isn't going 3rd party any time soon. Mr. Iwata has already (firmly!) stated that. I don't think that Nintendo should buy Sega anyways, I mean their in debt over their heads, if Nintendo bought them that debt would be Nintendo's.
Post by: ThePerm on July 06, 2003, 02:18:57 PM
Flauntring their wealth and buying sega would work. And Sega's debt..well Nintendo's stock price would probably quadrouple after purchasing the company and within two years off of gameboy sells alone they would make up the price...not only that they would increase the publics iew of them by absorbing so many good properties......im not saying they should, and im not sure if its a good idea. But there are so many stupid people out there, perhaps you understand what i mean.
Post by: Cooolcorey on July 06, 2003, 03:13:11 PM
Post by: Lecter on July 06, 2003, 07:35:16 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on July 06, 2003, 09:35:35 PM
Also, units shipped means nothing. Period. Do you know how many stores sit on piles of unsold Ps2's? The main reason the Ps2 has shipped so many units is because it is a peice of defective garbage. Do a search for "defective Ps2" on any search engine and see what I mean.
You know another reason Ps2 and X-Box have shipped so many units? It's because there are mod chips for both. People like systems that can be chipped. Much of the X-box's sales have come from the fact that it is so easy to mod. I don't approve of this activity, but many are doing it. If you look at the abysmal sales of almost every single X-box game you'll know why. People are buying the system but not buying games.
If any company needs to evolve its that joke of a company called Sony. We get endless sequels and clones. Now we even get sequels of sequels. When will it end?! Now there is talk that Sony plans to employ "Generic Game Engines" in the development of Ps3 games. Meaning the same engine would be used for several driving games, platform games, Fps games and more. That's gonna be really good for gaming! (MASSIVE SARCASM)
Lecter, you seem like a bitter person with an axe to grind. Don't like Nintendo? Well tough. Maybe you're the problem.
Nintendo is doing fine, even in the face of a massive global recession. I'm sure they'd like to sell more units, and they will, slow and steady, just give them time. No one even mentions that there are more GameBoy's worldwide than all the other systems combined.
As for innovation, I'm sure Nintendo will be providing both Microsoft and Sony with their best ideas in the years to come, lol!
Post by: Mario on July 06, 2003, 09:49:30 PM
Post by: nonjagged on July 07, 2003, 07:24:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Lecter
Nintendo isn't going party, thats just nuts to think about. People want to develop for the Xbox over the GameCube because they feel the Xbox is better hardware wise, has more potential (spelled that wrong I know), and because no matter what the Xbox is going to be around. Like it or not, Microsoft has entered the console race and isn't leaving.
M$, have rapidly become the oppressors of the console gaming community, more often than not, for some arrogantly jelous reason try to put down the loyal Nintendo fanbase, with the use of critical statements in their interviews/*cough* propaganda *cough* that somehow off-topic & out of frustration, manage to sneak critisism against Nintendo.
Heck, M$ even now belatedly claim that their set-top-box isnt competing with the Gamecube platform yet somehow M$ can never find the courage (as they are beyond embarrest) to actually publically state anything critical against $ony's PSX platforms, the platform M$ is actually directly competing against because M$ are beyond embarrest. Embarrest that their delusion they will convert million$ of Japanese gamers from the PSX platforms.
In my opinion the Xbox is one of the biggest bombs ever to launch in the Japanese market and M$ should tuck their spade-tipped tale between their legs already and leave the console industry alone before M$ becomes a public laughing stock.
There is no point Steve Balmer's Xbox division billion dollar losses hiding behind the overpriced M$ O/S software division.
Notice how Seamus Blackley quite his position (LOL) after Xbox launch day which fell short of a few billion dollars compared to ps2 launch day.
To now come in here and claim M$ is here to stay is so ridiculously idiotic if thats exactly what Nintendo have been doing for decades.
The point is Nintendo is no longer directly & fanatically aiming to have the biggest console userbase or the biggest 3rd party lineup, Nintendo is aiming to keep refreshing its franchises (even if it means that getting a cel-shaded Zelda on GCN before a Realistic Zelda on GCN2 will hurt many fanboy's anticipations).
Nintendo has been doing risks and will continue to support risky unknown franchise if they have substance.
As for the rest of platforms. Expect many ports and sequels keeping their platforms afloats.
Its ok for M$ to lose billion$ on the Xbox so it can get a userbase to build on future platforms, however can anyone provide conclusive evidence that the fanbase will always remain on Xbox platforms? Exactly. Actually theres a large proportion of Xbox users that are actually hackers or Linux users turning the Xbox into other types of devices. And then theres the huge underground Xbox market dont buy games anymore because pirates are their new distributor of games.
Considering the GCN is a gaming-only platform which means doesnt appeal to Mainstreamers wishing for Multi-media entertainment or DVD, and considering that the GCN userbase can only purchase software at retail prices instead of underground pirate prices and considering that the Xbox has bombed-out bigtime in Japan, I think the GCN has actually wholloped the Xbox and then some. Home run.
M$ will now beg ATI to concentrate on making the XBox2 GPU more powerful than the GCN2's GPU and observers such as myself will be having a barrel of laughs.
The majority of the markets dont want the Xbox (poor Japan M$ is alreadygiving up on translating US NTSC games for the Japanese Territory) and then Lecturer threatens us that M$ is here to stay they are not leaving the console industry LOL I honestly cant stop laughing.
Well the concilation is at least japanese gamers get a manual thats in their language.
Talk about M$ pleasing its userbase/fanbase. LOL
M$ will never ever surpass $ony's console stranglehold. Never.
M$ should look into a new entertainment device, it will never compete with $ony because $ony is universally accepted especially in the crucial Japanese market. M$ however is a joke universally.
Square and Nintendo have already declined M$'s offers for many years now and the closest M$ will EVER come to exclusively owning a decent Japanese developer is Sega which has made it clear they will remain Mulit-Platform for the time being.
And Im currently not playing 1 year old PC ports, because ........finished them a year ago on PC not Xbox.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 07, 2003, 07:39:48 AM
you seriously need to seek professional help asap.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 07, 2003, 07:49:33 AM
Post by: nonjagged on July 07, 2003, 08:15:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
nonjagged
you seriously need to seek professional help asap.
LOL upon seeking immediate professional help by a doctor with electrotherapy devices and a rubber glove, I was asked by the Doc to pass a box of tissues onto thecubedshmuck to help him wipe the tears from his saddened eyes.
Ohhhh poor baby. M$ is already giving up in the Japanese territory (about 2 years too late) for this generation, and $ony have a handheld and PSX server coming to keep you occupied while you wait for imaginary ps3 launch date, while GCN2 of course naturally will be despised by you because it specialises better in delivering realtime loading of Games, not DVD etc.
Ohh poor baby.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 07, 2003, 08:20:57 AM
Post by: Rhoq on July 07, 2003, 08:31:38 AM
Am I disappointed that the GameCube is not as popular or successful as it should be? Hell yeah.
Will I buy the Cube's successor? You better believe it!
Aside from the Atari 2600, ColecoVision, Commodore 64, Sega Master System and Atari Lynx, I have never owned anything but Nintendo (going back to the Game & Watch series). With the exception of the Atari Lynx, All of the other systems were owned prior to me getting an NES and we all know how fast the Lynx came and went. I missed out on the SNES and did not own a system during that generation, although I played plenty of Super Nintendo when I visited friends. I also played Sega Genesis during that time, but I prefered the SNES. For some reason, Nintendo was just more appealing and the controller was more comfortable.
When the N64 came out, I bought it. It felt so good to be a console owner once again. I loved that machine. I would even go so far as to say that it was greatest console ever (so far). At that time the Sega Saturn, Sony PlayStation and Sega DreamCast were around. Although I have never played a DreamCast, I have experienced the Saturn and PlayStation (again through friends). I was not impressed.
As soon as the news of Nintendo's "Dolphin" broke, I was excited. I couldn't care less about any other system. PlayStation 2 - who cares? X-Box? Fu*k Bill Gates. Sony's system bores me. X-Box seemed like a joke a few years ago and I'm still laughing at that thing. Neither system ever interested me, but the Cube always did - even before it was called the "GameCube".
Nintendo has never let me down. Even in the current generation, while I may be a bit disappointed that Nintendo lacks proper 3rd Party support, the GameCube library has a stronger line-up in terms of quality games than the Playstation 2 and X-Box combined (IMHO).
Do I think that Nintendo has a problem? Yes, absolutely. Poor advertising and an unfair (but justified) reputation of being a "kiddie company" have tarnished Nintendo's image in the eyes of many current generation gamers. I am confident that Nintendo is aware of their current situation and I believe that they are already trying to correct the problem with their latest advertising campaign (Soul Caliber II, Rebel Strike, WrestleMania X9, F-Zero GX, etc.)
Instead of pointing out all of Nintendo's faults, I think we should just sit back and watch what they do as we near the end of the GameCube's life and enter the next generation of console gaming. (Do I think the GameCube is dying - Hell No!)
Post by: nonjagged on July 07, 2003, 08:35:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Okay, that wasn't exactly a great comeback, nonjagged, but I suppose I'll stay out of it from now on. This thread was a waste of time anyway.
Who would bother making a greatcomeback to someone who never offers their opinion of why they are directly negative towards you?
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
This thread was a waste of time anyway.
You mean this thread or thecubedcluck is a waste of your time?
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 07, 2003, 08:41:11 AM
you seriously need to seek professional help asap."
Cubed, if you're going to insult someone like that, don't just take a hit and run. You better be ready to have a counter argument to the guy you're bashing otherwise it just makes you look like a jerk. While I may not agree with all of nonjagged's views (I think), he's at least adressing anything people throw at him instead of just taking low blows at them.
Post by: nonjagged on July 07, 2003, 09:27:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
"nonjagged
you seriously need to seek professional help asap."
Cubed, if you're going to insult someone like that, don't just take a hit and run. You better be ready to have a counter argument to the guy you're bashing otherwise it just makes you look like a jerk. While I may not agree with all of nonjagged's views (I think), he's at least adressing anything people throw at him instead of just taking low blows at them.
I didnt have a great comeback because he normally just says something stupid during the spur of the moment and never follows it up, other than Nintendo should go 3rd party or I think Nintendo dont concentrate on gimmicky aesthetics etc.
Actually I welcome any criticism or in his case
insults, but normally those that cant handle something that unfortunately goes against their gaming beliefs and therefore just sniper-on-the-run with no substancial argumentative backup, is whats funny. They then become self-inflicted prime targets.Hence the offering of tissues.
......<end>bait</end>Post by: KDR_11k on July 07, 2003, 10:13:38 AM
Debating whether or not the current situation can be called a failure for N is mostly pointless. Just laugh at the fools who don't know what they're missing. BTW, all that impressing-friends-with-GC stuff doesn't work for me... Friends too narrowminded. Although... I've never tried Zelda or Metroid on them, just multiplayer titles...
To phrase it like Pooch from Sinfest: Me loves me Cubey!
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 07, 2003, 12:30:58 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 07, 2003, 01:38:46 PM
The thread in general was pointless, since all the article did was bash Nintendo (with a lot of prejudice and using inaccurate facts) and make me aware of stuff that I already knew (intentional (oxy)moron). But thecubedcanuck was particularly annoying.
Post by: theRPGFreak on July 07, 2003, 09:19:42 PM
To start off, lets look at Acclaim. I am suprised that tehy are not on life-support like 3DO is! They put so much hype over BMX XXX saying how a huge success it was going to be, when it turned into a huge flop! I have seen that game new for $10.00! I don't have a problem with Acclaim, but I don't that there problems are just because of their games not doing well with Nintendo. I think that the main problem is that they need to make new and uniqe games. Vexx was a real cool game, if that was a gamecube exclusive, with more hype around it, I think that it would have been a huge success.
Another thing that they stated about Square Enix, I find not true. The company is looking forward towards Final Fantasy Crystal Cronicles, which other people are, and I think that Capcom is looking at Viewtiful Joe and seeing how well that title went in Japan.
Another thing that I do not like is this whole "connectivity" idea. Sure it sounds good, but what I don't like about the idea is that if you want to enjoy these games, you need to get another 3 people over who each have GBAs, linkcables, and all who own the same game! If they want this idea to work, then it should also have online play with it. I dont want all of this "safe idea" crap, because this is the same thinking that was why the Nintendo 64 was put on cartrages, and got their butts kicked by Sony!
Another thing that Nintendo needs to do is evolve. I keep hearing people complain that if they change then it wouldn't be the "true Nintendo" but the way I see it, if Nintendo took the changes that it needs to do, then they might stand a good fighting chance against the PS3. Also, how does Nintendo think that they will stand a chance against this PS3?! From what I have heard about the whole"cells" in the system, it sounds like they would not stand a chance. If someone could reply to that it would be helpful!
I also did NOT like the Wind Waker's story. They screwed it all up!
Later
Post by: thepoga on July 07, 2003, 09:30:28 PM
Qoute from Lecter
People say OH Viewtiful Joe is gonna rock! Yeah it probably will but the majority of gamers out there wont buy it, and as good of a game it is, sales wont do so great in the US.
It sold out in japan. if it sells mildy well here it will still make a profit.
Post by: ThePerm on July 07, 2003, 11:21:19 PM
you know alot of devlopment tiem goes int othe creation of objects and levles..well did...but certain objects in the levels are high enough poly enough to move over to the next console. Also, you'll note that it will be so much easier to make characters..because you wont have to cut back on the models and it iwll allow the same models used in promotional work(like sunshines or mario 64's) to b e used in game.
Think of how metroid looks now...next generation?
the bridge between square and Nintendo is beign healed..if we dont get final fantasy #, we will prolly get chrono trigger sequals, or new exclusive series.
god knows how crazy silicon knights will become
zelda hyper realistic..we coudl be seeing an all new link next gen..or hero of time with ultra super graphics
the bridge is being built between Konami and Nintendo
Nitnendo has a good relationship with Capcom and Namco
all this triforce stuff and sega
really what nintendo is done is made this generation the "im sorry i made you sad" third party gen and next will be the super mega glory gen
and then you got all these hyper 17-19 year old hardcore nintendo fans who will have jobs in hte industry soon
put that together...
Post by: Usul on July 08, 2003, 01:35:18 AM
1. Backward-Compatibility with "Gamecube 1", and backward-compatibility with "playstation 1&2". Backward-compatibility was the only thing that let the playstation2 outsell the dreamcast a few years back. Yes that means no loger special-mini-optical-disc but the full dvd one, better still the new blue-ray-dvd that can store up to 50 Gigabytes data, better still make it a recordable one, with a TV-tuner, so everyone can store his game-progress right on the game-dvd, just like in the good old cartridge-time.
2. Stop doing remakes or ports of old games. That means no more Mario or Zelda, but actively creating new characters and new sorts of games.
3. Stop using cell-shading. Sure it saves time and money, but it's ugly, and it surely turns off new customers. Go instead for as much realism as is possible with the hardware, while still maintaining 60 fps. Yes, 60 fps are very important, not like the 30 fps in Mario Sunshine or Waverace.
4. Reduce the percentage you require the thirdparty-developers to pay for every selled game on your platform from now 20% to 5%. Then you can reduce the price-point for new games from now 50$ to 35$. At the start it means less money for you and the thirdparty-developer/publisher, but in the long-run, it means more people will buy consoles and games, and it will surely make up for the loss.
5. Every single commercial or advertising you do should promote thirdparty-games and not your own. Your own will be made known anyway.
6. The Gamepad is the most important thing for gaming, because through that the interaction with the game-world occurs. So, you must absolutely take care that the most improtant genres are played as well as possible with it. The "Gamecube 1"-pad failed really miserable, because it was espescially build to work perfectly with certain games(espescially Nintendo-games like Mario and Zelda), but to be a pain in the ass for others, because of the face-buttons, that are not useful for trendsport games, or beat-them-ups where you are required to use more than one button simultaneusly, and in a timed manner.
For racing-games the R and L - buttons aren't optimal. The triggers that the dreamcast-pad used were much better in that regard.
7. Offer broad-band-built-in-Online-capability right from the start. Even though it's not very useful for gaming-fun, because the gamers are not physically in the same room, but it's very important for the public mind. the buyer wants to buy a console that has the capability right out of the box, even though he won't use it very often.
8. Buy Sega for its knowledge in building consoles, and off course for the sports-series it offers, and off course for Sonic, Monkeyball and espescially for Virtua Tennis.
That's it.
Usul
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 08, 2003, 02:17:33 AM
His posts are nothing more than fanbot rhetoric. They make some very good points if look at things from only one side, I also have a very hard time respecting anyone who uses 50 $$$$ to say Microsoft and Sony, as this simply magnifies his already evidient bias.
Yes, he loves Nintendo, good for him, but his arguments about them are made up of emotion and not fact.
It is nice to think that Nintendo will dominate the next generation, but at this point it is a very unlikely scenerio based on the current market trends.
I have been a Nintendo console owner from the very beginning, and own 19 games for my gamecube, and as hard as it is for some to believe I am not a nintendo basher, I am simply a long time customer who has seen a drop in quality, and has grown tired of what Nintendo has to offer. I honestly dont get the feeling I use to get from nintendo games. Zelda was way to easy, repetitive, and downright boring, Sunshine was a disaster, and I have never like games such as Mario party and pokemon. This is all my opinion, and is not right or wrong, but it appears to be a more common opinion than the opposite one, as sales clearly reflect.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 08, 2003, 02:42:45 AM
As for how sales are going. . . quite frankly, I'd rather them stay down than Nintendo change their style (though if they can get the best of both, all the better). In general, Nintendo games are mainly the only video games I like. Sure, I play others on occassion, and even own some (there are always exceptions, and in this case, a fair deal of them), but I still end up preferring Nintendo to the competition. I've said it before, it's as if they tailor specifically to my needs. It's bizarre, nearly unnerving. So while it's perfectly dandy for you to be a bit disappointed now, I must confess that I'm as pleased as ever.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 08, 2003, 04:39:53 AM
Yes, because Zelda became the most preordered game in history because EVERYONE thought it was boring and repetitive. Look, I'm lgad you finally said what you thought instead of tossing out one-liners, but don't go assuming everyone shares your opinions because we DON'T. I don't know why people have come to the conclusion that sales are bad- like I said, Nintendo's performing at least as well as MS but you don't hear any discontent on that side of the fence. Nintendo's not doing as well as they should be doing but to say they're doing bad is downright idiotic. And sales don't indicate quality, cubed- you should know that. Most games nowadays sell on marketing alone- I think you'll find 99% of Gamecube owners love their system and all the games Nintendo has given them. From what I'VE seen, you're in the minority when it comes to your opinion of Nintendo's quality.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 08, 2003, 04:45:25 AM
Quote
quite frankly, I'd rather them stay down than Nintendo change their style (though if they can get the best of both, all the better).
Yes, they can get both quite easily, however, they are too damn stubborn to do so.
Keep the Mario and the Zelda's for the loyalists, but get a third party to make a blood bath game like GTA.
Nintendo is the only company that can really pull this off (if they havent waited to long already), they have a loyal following like no other gaming company has ever had or probably ever will, and as long as they keep giving those loyalists what they want, they will stick around. Now if you add a few games in the style of GTA (hell make one even more violent) you will draw in the so called mainstream gamer. This is benefitial two fold, not only does it sell consoles, but is also gives them a chance to expose the new generation of gamers to their own classics, like Mario, which in turn "may" create more loyalists.
Many will argue that this would be selling out, I strongly disagree. This wont drive away loyalists because they will still have their favorites, and it may bring in new comers, if anything it is sound business practice. Give your current customers what they want but also add a few new things for the rest of them.
Sounds simple.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 08, 2003, 04:58:44 AM
Quote
Yes, because Zelda became the most preordered game in history because EVERYONE thought it was boring and repetitive.
Pre-orders have nothing to do with the game being boring. How many of the 600,000 pre-orderer's played the game prior to ordering it?
If you look through these threads you will find a quite a few people saying that Zelda was far to easy, thus making it boring. Plus, I never used the word everyone, again you need to mis quote to prove a point.
Quote
but don't go assuming everyone shares your opinions because we DON'T.
I never assumed that at all, that is why I clearly stated it was my OPINION and not a right or wrong fact.
Quote
I don't know why people have come to the conclusion that sales are bad- like I said, Nintendo's performing at least as well as MS but you don't hear any discontent on that side of the fence.
Sales are well below expectations, this is very much obvious to most everyone with an open mind. As for MS, this is their first kick at the console cat, for them to be tied with a long time console giant is a plus. Nintendo has seen dropping sales on their last 2 consoles, for them to be neck and neck with the new guy isnt a plus at all.
Quote
And sales don't indicate quality, cubed- you should know that. Most games nowadays sell on marketing alone-
I never said they do. What I said was, Nintendos games have been diminishing in quality, at least from my perspective, you have every right to disagree with me on this as it all opinion. Personally I didnt find Zelda or mario to be of any better quality than the good games on rival systems. As for marketing selling games, yes it does. However I think you read to much into it. Marketing sells games to it target market, people are buying those games because those are the kind of games they want. Just because you dont like a certain game doesnt mean it is of lesser quality. GTA3 is a great example, many here say they hate it when in fact it is very much a quality title, no less than say Zelda of Metroid, it just isnt what many here like.
Remeber Nintendo markets as well, however their games just dont appeal to as much of an audience, giving them the appearence of being less marketed.
Quote
So while it's perfectly dandy for you to be a bit disappointed now, I must confess that I'm as pleased as ever.
Good for you.
Post by: egman on July 08, 2003, 06:36:53 AM
The one thing that annoys me about some of these rants is the relativity of success. Yeah, Nintendo is not doing as great as they would like, but people seem to make it out as if being anything other than number 1 is a shame. No, it's not. I much rather Nintendo ensures it health rather than recklessly pursue the same things that their competitors are. Some may disagree with me on that point, accussing Nintendo of cheapening out for their bottom line instead delivering the goods to the users. My response would be that I would rather have some Nintendo than none at all or in a form that is drastically different.
Another thing that gets under my skin is overblown expectations. Nintendo has made excellent games and still does, but we can't forget that there are humans behind the content. They are not gods, and like other humans they have their creative walls. The industry as a whole has come up against a creative wall. If you don't agree, I suggest you look over the list of games at E3 and tell me that no one is not playing it safe.
Admittedly, Nintendo hasn't helped themselves much in this case by pouring much of resources into EAD. I think Nintendo has less of an image problem and more of a problem of forcing similarily themed content down consumers throats. The best way to solve this problem is to give back EAD's deadline freedom while stepping up game production from other internal groups. It's pathetic that halfway through the GC life we have had yet see to likes of groups like Intelligent Systems or Camelot Software outside of GBA titles or spin-off games. I'm hoping that news of Fire Emblem coming to GC is a sign that Nintendo realizes that they have a lot of other content they can provide on their system that can be even more appealing to the consumer.
The last thing I want to talk about is the direction of the industry. I get so sick about people saying this and that about Nintendo not doing online or some sh*t. First of all, online gamers are a miniscule minority. A very vocal minority, but a small one. Just because they think online is the future, that doesn't make it so in reality. The same thing can be said about Nintendo and connectivity, so don't fool yourself and buy into the hype of online. Internet growth has slowed down, which works against plans for making online connectivity the killer app for consumers outside of the hardcore gaming block.
Sony and Microsoft are still trying to sell the idea of convergence. I have yet to see evidence that this is going to be the path of the industry, which is why I get annoyed when shots are taken at Nintendo for not believing in the same vision. What makes Sony's and Mircosoft's vision of convergence more valid than Nintendo's idea of simple game appliances? Again, just because forum users want online or convergence devices, that doesn't mean that it's a smart venture. The mainstream consumer is the one that's needs to be sold on these ideas, and so far nothing can be said about acceptance of these concepts because they are currently aimed at early adopters and hardcore users.
Post by: nonjagged on July 08, 2003, 07:53:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: egman
Read my post above
I agree with most of your opinions and or feelings. Isnt it amazing there are others that will disagree and say you are wrong, Nintendo is arrrogant, Nintendo doesnt listen to you, Nintendo should do this, Nintendo should do that, Nintendo are losing it, Nintendo needs to be No 1 again, I am a raving Nintendo fanboy and if they dont listen to my posts or in some cases website rants, then I will boycott Nintendo's next platform ,,,, yadda yadda et al.
I wouldnt mind if these sad gamers just curled up in a ball or just left Nintendo's platforms already for another because if they have grown up then why are they still wearing diapers? While Nintendo is too busy organising software for 3 different platforms, Nintendo fanboys want Nintendo to tap dance while Nintendo is juggling 3 platforms and research on new gaming ideas which they will announce next year.
I could go on and I could start to insult some of them in this thread, but remember they're right and we are wrong.
Nintendo is wrong. The worst thing about these lunatics is they're too impatient.
Way too impatient and they want everything now and on a platter.
They want every Franchise $ony secures to be on Nintendo's platforms also.
They want to be spoonfed, they want to be burped.
They want Nintendo to spend billion$ on advertising and want Nintendo to get every 3rd party on the planet.
Funny thing about Acclaim is they need M$ more to survive in the console business than Nintendo need Acclaim to survive in the console business. That wasnt too hard to work out. Just because Nintendo doesnt have time to hold Acclaim's hand and fund its games doesnt mean Nintendo is doomed.
Reality is these fanboys must keep their mentailty in check with reality and be patient.
Once Killer 7, RE4, and Geist, MP 2, Too Human and Project Zero, deliver you will see these Nintendo babies shuttup with their negativity and maybe even some will say "Momma".
Yeah and if you look at that most shortest of all lists you will find 4 of the titles to be totally original.
I once claimed Nintendo fanboys where actually blind to their biased delusions.
Everyone claims Nintendo should advertise more and attract more 3rd parties. If only they could stop their sobbing and play whatever game pleases them because advertising games that you already know about is a waste of your time to contemplate issues about.
Let the n00bs and mainstreamers worry about the quality games that dont get advertised.
Besides Nintendo's advertising budget comes from gaming not from O/S system budgets etc.
And these babies should accept the fact that Nintendo does not want to attract all the 3rd parties in the world, it just wants to attract some 3rd parties with big Franchises. Whinning on about 3rd parties is useless. Look at just some of the titles above and then throw in MGS tweaked and some RPGs and some decent Namco games on their way and for FVCKs sake just play games instead of crying like thumbsucking babies every week .
These kiddies cant see beyond their emotions and rants and are too impatient.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 08, 2003, 08:38:32 AM
Quote
"I never assumed that at all, that is why I clearly stated it was my OPINION and not a right or wrong fact."
::ahem:: Posted by thecubecanuck Tuesday July 08, 2003 6:17 AM CST
"This is all my opinion, and is not right or wrong, but it appears to be a more common opinion than the opposite one,"
Right there you CLEAR stated that more people agree with you than disagree with you. Did you forget you said that or something?
Quote
"I never said they do. What I said was, Nintendos games have been diminishing in quality, at least from my perspective,"
Let's have another quote from the same post as above quoted:
Posted by thecubecanuck Tuesday July 08, 2003 6:17 AM CST
"Zelda was way to easy, repetitive, and downright boring, Sunshine was a disaster, and I have never like games such as Mario party and pokemon. This is all my opinion, and is not right or wrong, but it appears to be a more common opinion than the opposite one, as sales clearly reflect."
So what you're saying there is that you think poor sales are reflecting Nintendo's dropping quality in videogames- so how can you claim you never said there was a correlation between sales and quality? You contradict yourself at every turn- try to be a little more consistent. It seems to me if you're so dissapointed in Nintendo you should sell your Gamecube and games and buy a PS2 or XBox. I don't mean that in a fanboyish way- there's absolutely no reason to own a console you clearly don't like.
Post by: Zelda on July 08, 2003, 08:47:42 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 08, 2003, 08:51:44 AM
Post by: egman on July 08, 2003, 09:17:39 AM
I agree with your observation, however. Actually, going by the article and other editorials I've seen in this vain, you would think game quality would go back up considering many argue that N's current efforts pale in comparison to the games they made as the market leader.
Post by: lastexit on July 08, 2003, 09:25:08 AM
Buy sega for their CONSOLE KNOWLEDGE??? haahaha. Sega 32x anyone? Sega CD?
Nintendo SHOULD buy Sega, as soon as Sega gets its business operation in order. Sega is a MESS financially and that's not going to change by buying it. Sega needs to get its sh!t together and as soon as that happens someone will want to buy them. You don't acquire companies that are billions of dollars in debt.
TV tuner? Waste of money, time and space. DVD playback, too. These chipsets are not optimised for playing video games and offer NOTHING in that regard. The XBox and PS2 both sacrifice video gameplay to provide video playback features. That's one of many reasons load times are better on the Gamecube. It's not just because the disc is small, as some would have you believe.
On that note, the small dvd's are great. Why anybody complains about this I don't know. They must be stupid/brainwashed. Seriously. There is no storage problem. I don't want to watch a 2-hour movie in the middle of a game. I, like most people who play video games, don't want to be interrupted while I watch a five-minute video just so i can play for another five minutes. That is the WORST and it's ALWAYS SUCKED. Anybody who says otherwise is an idiot. Video game make bad movies. F@cking Metal Gear is hardly "Amelie."
Next, the controllers on GC are great. I have always found the square ps2 controllers to be very uncomfortable and the fact is that they have too many buttons. If you want to see a well-used controller layout, check out Metroid Prime. The unit becomes a seamless part of the game and you never notice how much is going on with it. Sure, other games require you to learn a different layout of buttons but THAT'S OKAY!!! I played Mortal Kombat: DA to death on my GC and didn't mind the fighting pad controls at all. If you did, BLAME MIDWAY for being too lazy to actually program a video game properly.
Cell-shading should not be "banned." It's only been used in a handful of games, most notably Zelda: WW. It enhances the game greatly. Also, remember games like Jet Grind Radio? That was NOTHING without cel-shading. "Realism" is totally overrated. The fact is taht the MAJORITY of the video game-playing audience is not undersexed loser boys like yourself, as recent studies have shown. This is something Nintendo has known for many years, hence games like Animal Crossing. Shooting things is REALLY BORING. If you continue to be interested in the same types of experiences over and over it shows a LACK OF GROWTH in your personal tastes. It's a sign that perhaps you need to re-examine your approach to life in general. Meanwhile the rest of us will continue to enjoy and expand our video game playing experiences.
You would have rejected Tetris when it first came out.
Post by: nonjagged on July 08, 2003, 09:40:57 AM
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
What I don't get is why does everyone assume if Nintendo DOES become number 1 they'll automatically have a drop in quality? Nintendo CAN have both- they did it with the NES and SNES. Don't think that the only way for Nintendo to overtake Sony is to start making crappy games- I just think that's an excuse to rationalize Nintendo NOT being number 1.
Also regarding to thecubedshmuck:
You contradict yourself at every turn- try to be a little more consistent. It seems to me if you're so dissapointed in Nintendo you should sell your Gamecube and games and buy a PS2 or XBox. I don't mean that in a fanboyish way- there's absolutely no reason to own a console you clearly don't like.
He does contradict but in his opinion he wants needs Nintendo cannot give him. Others like him may enforce their opinions throughout forums boards thinking it will get Nintendo's attention or something.
Also in my opinion Nintendo will never become number 1 again because their platforms focus on gaming alone.
Many markets would chose a Blu-ray recordable player by $ony over a proprietory non-recordable machine Nintendo will develope next-gen.
Nintendo could never surpass Ps2 userbase for starters because the head start was way beyond achieving for a system that appeals to limited markets being only game players which are forced to purchased FULL RETAIL priced games.
On your side of the territory you may think piracy is not that big of a del but in some countries the gamers wont buy a console if it doesnt have a chip for it, and giving me a response about psx is past tense, the markets have evolved there are so many platforms old or new to chose from.
If Nintendo was to challenge $ony for number 1 position Nintendo would have to create a system that does not use proprietory discs and get Panasonic to make whatever standard will be universal come 2 years time.
However even if now Nintendo got a head start on $ony next-gen (as $ony did during this gen) and launched first Nintedno would need to get a FF title launch or near of, as many gamers have observed Square only supporting one platform being the one with the biggest userbase.
If this does not happen and Square (not Designer Studio but Square) is still bias for $ony then no matter what the next-gen of cry-baby Nintendo fanboys dribble in forums for the years to come, can help Nintendo.
Nintendo will never be in the Number 1 position as long as it wants to protect the software/franchises it creates with non-mainstream discs and Nintendo will never be in the Number 1 position if for some bizzare (hint biased) reason Square and Konami ignore Nintendo's next -gen platform launch.
Theres nothing more that should be discusssed about the current situation. This thread should be put to sleep.
Nintendo cant surpass ps2, so everyone should get over it. Nintendo can only signup some decent franchises for us to enjoy the rest of the GCN's lifespan.
If Nintendo launches first next-gen which they claim they will (do exactly what fanboys want and take action) but little do the fanboys realise that Nintendo couldnt take action with GCN so quickly because the proprietory discs that Nintendo used take time to get running.
$ony & M$ reliancy on DVD plants is way easy. They depend on quick turnovers because they dont actually create much software to protect.
Its very funny how fanboys like thecubedshmuck regularily complain about lack of GTA3 titles by Nintendo but they dont bring up issues like that liscense is time-secured by $ony. Even though there is a clone of that game made for the Xbox and coming soon GCN, they still complain and even want Nintendo to create or publish a title simular in nature but fail to realise one of the most important aspects.
$ony & M$ emulate and or immitate anything that is widely popular or accepted.
Nintendo rarely copies what other developers create, because Nintendo respects the gaming community wants it to be consistant of unique gaming experiences not generic immitations that eventually flood the shelves. The other 2 corps are pimps, and would rather cash in.
We can only wait until next-gen launch to see whether or not Square is actually truthful in that it supports the biggest userbase console.
Since that Nintendo is launching first, its safe to say that Nintendo will regain number 1 position.
But in my opinion I think that some of Square GBA games are merely being used to generate funds for the PSP titles they will be creating with $ony. In my opinion Square is using Nintendo so then it could team up with PSP because $ony would offer cash-incentive exclusivities that Nintendo doesnt like doing, just to get software on a platform.
I severely hope that I am wrong about Square and the future but, Nintendo will never be number 1 in console sales but it will always never stop refreshingly entertaining me at least and thats all that matter to me.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 08, 2003, 10:07:01 AM
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Right there you CLEAR stated that more people agree with you than disagree with you. Did you forget you said that or something?
I said it "APPEARS" th be, I didnt say it was definate, again you are seeing only what you want to see.
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So what you're saying there is that you think poor sales are reflecting Nintendo's dropping quality in videogames-
You are misinturpriting what I meant. I do think that Nintendo's game have dropped in quality, quite signifigantly in fact, however I think their poor sales are a result of image and not the quality of the games.
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I don't mean that in a fanboyish way- there's absolutely no reason to own a console you clearly don't like.
I never said I dont like cube, it is Nintendo's games that I havent liked.
I love Eternal Darkness, RE and RE0.
I agree that Nintendo doesnt need to be number 1 to survive, but it also cant afford to lose users with every console as profits will become a thing of the past.
Say what you will and pat yourselves on the backs all you want, but Nintendo's appeal is dropping, and that is bad for business regardless of how much you love them.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 08, 2003, 10:08:28 AM
Post by: ThePerm on July 08, 2003, 10:21:04 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 08, 2003, 12:26:20 PM
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"Actually, mouse_clicker, I would like to ask what the big deal is about Nintendo having to become number one? Business is about profit, and Nintendo has shown in TWO generations that profitablity can be accomplished without being a market leader."
I never said there was a problem there, but given the chance wouldn't you want to make more money, too? Besides, more money means more and better polished games coming out of Nintendo and more financial security in casne the day of reckoning ever does come. There's no problem with Nintendo's profits now, but there's also no problem with making a lot more.
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"I said it "APPEARS" th be, I didnt say it was definate"
Right, but according to you most people think Nintendo has had a serious drop in quality. It doesn't matter whether it's true or not (which it isn't, I can tell you)- what matters is that you think more people think Nintendo is making some crappy games now than people thinking Nintendo's making good games. I don't see how you can even begin to draw that conclusion.
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You are misinturpriting what I meant. I do think that Nintendo's game have dropped in quality, quite signifigantly in fact, however I think their poor sales are a result of image and not the quality of the games.
You didn't say that in your post- you quite clearly juxtaposition your notion that most people think Nintendo sucks now with bad sales- you said the bad sales PROVE your idea. Now suddenly you're saying the bad sales are because of image? Why didn't you say that in your first post?
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I never said I dont like cube, it is Nintendo's games that I havent liked.
I love Eternal Darkness, RE and RE0.
I knew what you meant, but honestly, how many 3rd party titles are you going to buy for the Gamecube- nearly my entire collection of Cube games (18 now, much more soon) is either 1st or 2nd party. If you are truly happy with your Gamecube despite not liking Nintendo's games now (I've never met anyone who happily owned a Gamecube but disliked Nintendo's games), then forget I ever said sold it. It's just an odd occurence.
Post by: ThePerm on July 08, 2003, 01:02:45 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2003, 02:09:07 PM
That's a GREAT point that sadly a lot of people seem to have missed in this huge thread. Ever since the N64 (or more accurately since Gunpei Yoki left Nintendo) almost all of Nintendo's games have had the look and feel of an EAD game regardless of who developed it. On the NES and SNES there was much more of a division as the non-EAD games were often quite different. The result of this trend is that anyone who doesn't like the EAD-style is instantly turned off by Nintendo's library. Developers like Hudson and Camelot should be making their own unique stuff instead of making Mario spin-off games. Variety was a big reason why the NES and SNES were so successful and is a big reason why the PS2 is number one today.
I don't think that Nintendo is in huge trouble or anything but it is very naive and fanboyish for some of you to assume that nothing is wrong and Nintendo is doing just fine the way it is. Nintendo is doing what I would consider acceptable right now but in the near future this might not be the case. They may still be making a profit but their games aren't selling as well as they used to and their image among most of the gaming public has been getting worse. If these trends continue then eventually Nintendo's going to be in trouble. If their consoles get the reputation of being the "losing" console for each generation it is going to affect sales and profits in the longrun. Whether or not it's a good thing many people like owning the "winning" console and if Nintendo's consoles are always in last place less people are going to buy them with each generation. Even the hardcore fans will eventually leave if it looks as if Nintendo will never improve.
Therefore Nintendo has to "fix" their problems now while they're still relatively minor before they grow bigger. Nintendo likely won't be number one again anytime soon but they should at least look like they're trying to reach that goal. Settling for last place everytime will bite them in the ass eventually.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 08, 2003, 03:27:07 PM
No, I think it's a point that a lot of people probably disagreed with and didn't think needed to be adressed. If you want to say that all Nintendo games have a Nintendo feel to them, well yes, that's true, but I don't see how you can say they're similarly themed, and you CERTAINLY can't attribute a change like that to one person. There's been quite a bit of diversity across EAD's games and I think it's crazy to say we're being force fed the same stuff over and over again. People who say Nintendo rehashes and isn't original either don't play Nintendo's games or are complete idiots.
Post by: Usul on July 08, 2003, 11:47:47 PM
my name is Usul and not Usal, your flaming of mine is pretty rediculous and normally I would just ignore it, but this topic is too important to be left for flamers.
You think it's just fine what Nintendo does, that it sells a console with mini-optical-discs that can't play DVD's, that it has developed a gamepad that is impractical for a lot of genres, that it ignores online-gaming. You think it's fine to have only a gaming-machine, but that is shortsighted.
In these days develpoing games cost a lot of money, at least when it's a game with 3d-graphics, with FM-secuences and with motion-capturing, with recorded voices and orchestrated soundtrack... So, the thirdparty-developers think about what platforms could have a big enough userbase. They look at Sony, yes big enough, they look at Microsoft, still not big enough but could be big enough in a few months, they look at Nintendo, also not big enough, and the future is unclear at best.
Why is that so? Because the console is built only for gaming, but families who are deciding what to buy this christmas-season, they are looking at what they will get for their 99 $. They see the X-Box and the playstation 2 both can play music-cds and DVDs, at least potentially, and the gamecube not for the same money, the decision is pretty clear. At least the decision what not to get.
You perhaps think "I don't care for those families and other losers who don't know a bit about gaming", and for the near term that attitude might be right, but in the long run, Nintendo won't earn enough money to produce good enough future games, since more and more developers will leave the platform.
Nintendo still acts like it had a monopoly like back in the 80's, but those times are gone. Now Nintendo is the runner-up, and it has to offer the same functionality and compatibility as the competitors or even better.
It needs to be much more aggressive in pricing, in convincing thirdparty-developers, in marketing, and they should espescially stop their policy of developing so many "Mario"-games that cover all the genres, like fighting (Supersmash-Brothers), racing (Mario-Kart), tennis and golf... That scares off many thirdparty-developers, because they fear that Nintendo sells millions of their games, while their own games that offer even better gameplay won't sell.
That's why the N64 lost to the playstation 1, people waited for the next big Mario-side-game, while they ignored the other offerings. The other reason was off course the cartridge-system.
I could go on and on, but I don't have the time, perhaps tommorow.
IanSane, and ThePerm, you both made good points.
Usul
Post by: egman on July 09, 2003, 04:46:47 AM
As for my comments about EAD, they are not meant to be disrespectful of the image Nintendo has built. They clearly have an idenity that you and I like, but the problem is not that many people would agree with us. If Nintendo's image was still strong, we wouldn't see threads like this.
I have heard a lot theories about Nintendo's woes, but rarely have I seen some one hit upon the software itself. While uniformily excellent, with the exception of SSB, none of the games that have come out of Nintendo for the GC have sustained considerable interest. The PS2 and Xbox sell not just because of a gritty image, but also because there have been killer apps that have struck a cord with the consumer. I'm still blown away that nearly 2 years later, Halo can still attract Xbox users. This kind of attention has been strangely absent from Nintendo, considering that the N64 lived on killer apps.
Which leads me back to what I feel is the key issue--image. Yes, there is a variety of software, but most of it is being sold on an image that I feel has become tiresome to many. Do you remember all the groaning that went on about the Four Swords GC after E3? Of course some of it was fanboyish rants, but I think some criticisms were legitimate. The Zelda image has not become as stale as Mario, and some fans would like for it stay that way. All I'm asking is for Nintendo to keep these images fresh by not runing them into the ground. Nintendo has some IP that hasn't been touched in a long time or is being horded on the GBA (Pokemon, Advance Wars), while at the same time there is a wealth of directors and producers at Nintendo's disposal who could contribute more original content if the chance came I presume.
If Nintendo is truly serious about regaining their dominance or at least retaining a strong prescene, then it's time that we see all of Nintendo and not parts of it. Regardless of what we think, Nintendo's games are the center piece of their hardware. If they want attract everyone, they themselves have to start making that happen, then the 3rd parties will be more easily convinced of Nintendo's value. As much as I detest the whole image thing, I can't get away from the fact that consumers in general are a shallow bunch. Nintendo can't change that, but they can respond to it while not neccesarily making the same types of games their competitors are.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 09, 2003, 06:36:08 AM
And I didn't even realize this thread was about Nintendo's image. I thought were debating Nintendo's seemingly difficult time in attracting 3rd parties and raising sales- that has nothign to do with image. 3rd parties aren't supporting the Cube because they think they'll have poor sales, not because of an image problem. There may still be a few developers that refuse to release violent games for the Cube because they're violent, but they're definitely not the majority.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 09, 2003, 07:00:01 AM
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Pre-orders have nothing to do with the game being boring. How many of the 600,000 pre-orderer's played the game prior to ordering it? If you look through these threads you will find a quite a few people saying that Zelda was far to easy, thus making it boring.
Actually, despite it being easy, you and Luciferschild are the only two on this board (that I can think of offhand) that said you disliked the game. I did find it to be somewhat easy, but it's still one of the best games I've ever played.
Post by: egman on July 09, 2003, 07:17:15 AM
Almost no 3rd parties have the balls to really support the Cube to the fullest. Capcom is the only one I can think who has really made a full on attempt without having to have some super special deal to entice them. Everyone else just keeps bringing up the makeup of the GC's userbase. Nintendo is the only one with enough power to shape their userbase to a point that 3rd parties would be comfortable. And that can only be done expanding upon their image and showing consumers they are more than a certain image. This is why I keep coming back to the issue--this whole debate points toward perception.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 09, 2003, 10:33:39 AM
Nintendo says its a game company, thus its console only plays games. This makes it cheaper, and for some the affordable alterative.
The problem however, is that many people are gearing towards multi use products, and IMO with good reason.
For example, Dad wants a second DVD player for the rec room, junior wants a game console, they can kill 2 birds with one stone by getting a PS2 or X-box, its a win/win.
I also dont understand why everyone is so against going third party. You would still have the games you all love, and in fact it would give nintendo a chance to make better games, because they would no longer have to worry about developing consoles.
Just a thought.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 09, 2003, 10:49:02 AM
I personally wouldn't like them to go 3rd-party because I don't want to have to buy multiple consoles just to play all the games I love (which is the main reason I'm against the PSP). Sega fans have a huge problem with this- Sega has (wisely) spread their franchises over all 3 platforms, and while that may be the best action business wise Sega fans are left spread *very* thin and I don't want that to happen. I honestly think this industry needs a STANDARD console, one that ever developer works on (like with CDs or DVDs)- quite frankly I'm getting sick and tired of spending almsot half a thousand dollars on console alone each generation.
Post by: ThePerm on July 09, 2003, 12:21:34 PM
Its just it sickens me that people complain and bitch about Nintendo being "kiddy" or some other bull shit when the stuff they release that is not "kiddy" is just ignored. Im 19 years old and iv been playing games for 15 years. I remember someone trying to tell me that if we look back even with nes that Nintendo was trying to appeal to children, obviously he doesnt understand the market and the history of the market. When nes came out you couldnt appeal to grown ups. They HATED video games. In 1984 the industry crashed and it left alot of people with sour tastes in their mouth. Aside from that the 0only graphics you could produce were sprite based graphics. Which by their 2-dimentional nature are cartoony. So we have Nointendo revitalizr the industry and become an institution and then because it is the institution it then gets bashed. Now Sony is the institution. We will see how long that lasts.
Post by: AgentSeven on July 09, 2003, 12:32:39 PM
Give me a system that plays GREAT games first, like the GameCube has done since day one. I could also say the same for the Dreamcast, which was killed by sony's B.S. hype machine.
Also, Canuck, all I see you do in every thread you post is to bash Nintendo. Why? Don't you have anything better to do? Dont you have any friends? Can't you bash Nintendo over at some sony site? It's clear no one here agrees with you, yet you just keep coming up with more flame bait. You must be a desperately lonely person, I'm sorry to say, Maybe you should actually buy a GameCube, instead of just complaining.
Post by: Ian Sane on July 09, 2003, 01:18:08 PM
Yeah and the scam works so what's wrong with Nintendo getting in on the action? Their console wouldn't actually be a "scam" if they had some extra stuff so it would be the best of both worlds. Nobody's going to not buy a Nintendo console because it has a DVD player in it. I agree that games are what really matters but the general public typically doesn't think like I do. They think more is better so if Nintendo's consoles don't do what Sony's do then to the general public their console is inferior. A few hardcore fans that appreciate the games-only approach doesn't mean sh!t when it comes to sales and profit. No extra features turns of casual gamers and extra features doesn't turn off hardcore fans. It's a no brainer on which approach to take.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 09, 2003, 02:14:00 PM
Post by: AgentSeven on July 09, 2003, 02:19:05 PM
They are especially suited for those who are unfamiliar with the qualities of a good game.
I don't want to spend time using my game console to watch a movie! I want to use it to play great games. This is what consoles are suppossed to do in the first place. How is that so hard to understand? I know the DVD functions on these systems can be good for kids, who aren't likely to have their own DVD player. (I know I didn't have one)
However, I'm an adult with my own money. If I wan't a decent DVD player, I'm sure not going to turn to my X-box or my Ps2. The DVD functions of both are a complete freakin joke, especially the Ps2. Also, it's been common knowledge for quite some time that playing DVD's on a Ps2 causes the systems to have an early demise. I have a decent DVD player, one far better than either the Ps2 or the X-box. Plus any $50 DVD player will play CD-r,CDrw, DVDr's and the console versions do not.
Still I will say this. Nintendo could go with the "extra fucntions," and it would probably help their bottom line, somewhat. In the end it will still be the games that make them the most money. And truthfully, I don't think Big N' would ever dishonor one of it's machines by sticking a low grade DVD player up it's @$$.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 09, 2003, 02:26:57 PM
Or maybe they could just include it. Heck, I don't care. I have two DVD players already.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 10, 2003, 01:56:40 AM
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Game systems with multiple functions are a SCAM to cover the fact that there are no good games on the system in the first place. For the first year my Ps2 was nothing more than a glorified, over priced, ultra crappy DVD player. To this day the vast majority of Ps2 games are garbage. Compared to my other systems, my ps2 gets little or no use. If it wasn't for GTA, I wouldn't own one at all.
Could you possibly make a more biased comment?
There are at least 50 great games available for the PS2, games that are as good as any on the Gamecube. They may not be your cup of tea, but to say there are no good games is a very foolish statement.
Also, multiple functions are far from being a scam. What is wrong with a unit having more than one purpose? The only reason you are so against it is because Nintendo didnt go with it. What about the PC? It does way more than play games and many here think its that cats ass for games. All adding additional features does is increase the number of people your product will appeal to. Add in the fact that your 2 main competitors have added features such as DVD players abd you give the appearance of having the sub par system, the one that doesnt match the standard. Adding a dvd player would in no way at all make Nintendo's games any differant, so I cant see why it would be of anything other than a benifit.
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I don't want to spend time using my game console to watch a movie! I want to use it to play great games. This is what consoles are suppossed to do in the first place. How is that so hard to understand?
Yes, but a lot of people do want to watch movies. What about people who dont have nice recievers and are forced to run their console directly to a TV, dont you think it would be a lot easier for them if they could simply use it to watch a movie as well as play games without having to unhook it all the time or buy a bunch of splitters?
GAmes may have been the sole purpose of consoles at one time, but like anything else they have evolved. Cars never use to have cupholders either, but they do come in handy now.
Post by: Mario on July 10, 2003, 02:00:58 AM
Do you have a problem with that cubedcanuck?
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 10, 2003, 02:04:13 AM
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Also, Canuck, all I see you do in every thread you post is to bash Nintendo. Why? Don't you have anything better to do? Dont you have any friends? Can't you bash Nintendo over at some sony site? It's clear no one here agrees with you, yet you just keep coming up with more flame bait. You must be a desperately lonely person, I'm sorry to say, Maybe you should actually buy a GameCube, instead of just complaining.
Wow, you must be a rocket scientists to have figured all that out on your own.
First of all I dont bash nintendo, if you actually READ and COMPREHEND what I have said you would already know that.
I have plenty of great friends, and you dont get to be one of them. haha
Yes, MANY here dont agree with me, but that is the point of discussion, so people can read and evaluate both sides of the story instead of just a bunch of fan boy rhetoric. My comments are far from flame bait, again please try to read and comprehend.
Desperate and lonely, not quite, try again.
Already have a gamecube thanks, and own 19 games for it.
So have a nice day, and please feel free to call me names again in the future.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 10, 2003, 06:15:44 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 10, 2003, 08:51:47 AM
That isnt true at all. There are many things I like about Nintendo, and many things said that I agree with. I see no need to join in on topics I agree 100% with as I dont think it really promotes discussion.
I own all three consoles and believe all three have their merits and short comings, I am in no way, shape or form here to simply trash nintendo. I have been a nintendo user since the beginning, and as long as there are a few games from them I like, I will keep buying systems. I however would love to see them become a little more open to the general public.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 10, 2003, 09:23:08 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 10, 2003, 10:05:12 AM
Heh, for example, I just defended cubed. I think he's all right, but he's not my favorite person in the world (no offense, you're okay, but I hate to say it's true).
Post by: thecubedcanuck on July 11, 2003, 02:28:22 AM
Mouse, there are a lot of things I really like about the cube, from the great controllers, especially the wavebird, which the greatest controller ever made. The system itself is great in that it has next to no load times and is extremely compact and well built. I love games like ED , RE , waverace, timesplitters, ssx tricky, madden, tiger woods, and Metroid prime which I have been playing more of lately.
So you see my problem without nintendo is not that I dont like them, I just disagree with their stratagy in an ever growing number of cases. I just wish they would be more open to ideas that dont always come from their own heads.
Hopefully this helps a bit.
Post by: Luciferschild on July 11, 2003, 09:22:40 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 11, 2003, 09:33:14 AM
Post by: SC5 on July 12, 2003, 05:20:33 AM
Basically, the Gamecube's f*cked now. As much as I love the goddamn system, I don't see it selling bucket loads any time soon. Mario didn't do it, Metroid didn't do it, Zelda didn't do it and Mario Kart surely won't either. All Nintendo can do is please it's current fanbase and perhaps raise some eyebrows along the way, but the people who haven't already gotten a gamecube for the games out now wont get it for the games coming up in the future.
Maybe I'm generalizing, Mario Kart, RE4 and Killer7 could boost console sales a bit, but I'm not forseeing any huge peaks in gamecube's sales. Even if Gamecube is my favorite system this gen and there is none other I'd rather own, it's basically passed it's prime. Xbox and PS2 owners might get second thoughts when they see FF:CC and MGS:Twin Snakes, but they wont jump ship (or even share deck) if they haven't already. And no, connectivity will NOT help either.
Next gen is where it's at, trust me. I'm expecting big things for N5.
First and formost, Yamauchi was around for Gamecube, now it's Iwata, and the recently released GBA SP leaves little to the imagination of Nintendo's next console's "style." I'm thinking along the lines of Nexus actually.
How the console will look is extremely important. They need to let go of the indigo. Seriously, pay that guy who made those nexus prints for his idea and use it. I trust Nintendo in being capable to add the best hardware possible under a set amount of cash, it's one thing they're good at. As for the slogan, make it something along the lines of "Hardcore gamers' only option," but not as retarded. Backwards compatability is a major plus as well, but not as necesary as some might make it out to be.
Second, the head start is a great idea, but if they don't take COMPLETE advantage of it, they're looking at another Dreamcast on the shelves while the streets are full of hype about PS3 and Xbox 2. If they release it a full year before Sony and MS's next consoles, they need to make the public forget about the competition. Showing off N5's hardware capabilities while PS3 and Xbox aren't ready to display more than a spec sheet will be a huge plus. Because Nintendo only needs to manage to surpass this current gen's hardware significantely, just enough to "wow" the public to graphic quality they haven't seen on TV yet. All of this while Sony and Microsoft are still busy with R&D (depsite the fact that their respective hardware might be superior, if the people buy into N5 first, they won't care about the rest when they come out, just look at PS2). Of course, this means loads of advertisment. Ads on TV made the NES known to the public and firmely stated itself as the "second coming" for the videogame industry and N5 deserves no less. Although it without the 3 point:
A wide variety of quality lauch titles! Which should included (but not limited to): Final Fantasy/Chrono Trigger/Secret of Mana/SOMETHING from Square Enix or a full blown Pokemon RPG/MMORPG (hey, we gotta sell this baby in Japan too), Too Human (which should be hyped up to hell and back, really something to grab casuals), A classic Nintendo license (Mario and the like or SSBM2 will do), all of the latest sport titles from EA with graphical upgrades, a realistic racer with a good presentation and any realistic/mature games to add to the list would be a plus (Capcom titles, ect.). All of that = the "PS3 who? Xbox 2 what?" impression long enough for N5 to create a fair userbase before the competition hits, which will eat up atleast SOME of the potential PS2/Xbox2 constumers.
And I'm being pretty generous, that's the absolute minimum Nintendo needs to have to really make an impact. They better be ready with that or equivalent to it.
A good kick in the butt is just what the doctor ordered for Nintendo during next gen. And even if it doesn't sell ALL that well (compared to PS3 that is), I'm sure it will have a lasting impact, and if they released it a full holiday season before the rest of the competition, than I think we're looking at a sure hit.
Post by: Artimus on July 12, 2003, 06:08:01 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on July 12, 2003, 03:16:49 PM
Funny thing is, these are the same complaints that have been around for years. Nintendo addressed every major qualm people have with the company during their press conference at E3, and are addressing them all (except for online which still isn't profitable no matter how much YOU want it. I personally don't care about online gaming, and don't know many people that do). Nintendo is changing, but if people expect that to happen overnight or for Nintendo to abandon Mario and Zelda for games full of movies, they're sorely mistaken.
