Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: UncleBob on March 02, 2015, 12:40:01 AM
Title: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: UncleBob on March 02, 2015, 12:40:01 AM
Third parties can't sell on Nintendo systems?
Please forgive me for using VGChartz as a source. If you can provide a better one at this time for this discussion, I'd be thankful.
So, this game came out in October of last year on all three major last-gen and next-gen systems.
Current sales figures (worldwide) are: Wii - 0.83 Million 360 - 0.74 Million PS3 - 0.53 Million WiiU - 0.48 Million PS4 - 0.29 Million XBO - 0.22 Million
Total - 2.98 Million
So, the Wii version (basically, the last major release for ye ol' Wii) has outsold all other versions. The Wii U version is pretty dang close to outselling the other two next-gen systems COMBINED. An interesting note - the Wii version of this game comes with a free download for the Wii U version. I'd kill a man to know how many of those codes have been redeemed.
So, the game, if you haven't figured it out, is Skylanders: Trap Team. Like it or hate it, the game sells. A lot (I'd love to see how many copies of the tablet version have moved...). And here it is, selling like crazy on, not just one, but TWO Nintendo consoles... all while not being a first party title.
So... what's the secret?
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Phil on March 02, 2015, 12:52:21 AM
WHOOOOOAAA!!!!!
I can't jive with the faulty premise of this thread, and I don't mean to single you out, Mr. UncleBob. Even with no other source available, don't use VGChartz. The site regularly fudges numbers and it's a detriment to actual sales discussion of hardware and software. It'd be like injecting yourself with a disease because there were no injections with medicine available.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: broodwars on March 02, 2015, 01:19:21 AM
So a casual game for children sold well on a dead casual console...made for children (and the elderly). Go figure.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: azeke on March 02, 2015, 01:21:45 AM
Just Dance on Wii to this day outsells every other platform. Combined and then multiplied a few times for good measure.
Lego games also sell best on Nintendo.
Skylanders i think is a bit of a special case -- because i think they have some kind of promotion?
If you want to see how game sell across platforms, your best bet is looking at US NPD reports: December (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=147874415): (http://i.imgur.com/8Ft9s5p.jpg) October (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=932551):
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NBA 2K15 (PS4, Xbox One, 360, PS3, PC) Super Smash Bros. for 3DS (3DS) The Evil Within (PS4, Xbox One, PS3, 360, PC) Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel (360, PS3, PC) Destiny (360, Xbox One, PS4, PS3) Skylanders: Trap Team (360, Wii, Wii U, PS3, Xbox One, PS4, 3DS, mobile) FIFA 15 (PS4, 360, PS3, Xbox One, Wii, PS Vita, 3DS) Madden NFL 15 (360, PS4, PS3, Xbox One) Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor (PS4, XBox One, PC) Minecraft (360, PS3, PS4)
See those platform lists in the brackets? The order corresponds to how game sold on each platform.
So, for Skylanders we see that 360 has become the leading platform and Wii and Wii U are behind it.
Also, it's an awful thread name.
1. It's vague. Third party - who? 2. "doing right" by who? Selling the best -- is not definitely not automatically means "doing right" by gamer.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: UncleBob on March 02, 2015, 02:18:10 AM
The site regularly fudges numbers and it's a detriment to actual sales discussion of hardware and software.
And yet, they still seem to run close enough for off-hand forum discussion. I wouldn't use their numbers in any kind of official presentation or even a friendly wager - but to just talk about stuff on a casual forum, why not? Again, I know it's not a popular source, but if you can't provide a better one...
If you want to see how game sell across platforms, your best bet is looking at US NPD reports: [...] So, for Skylanders we see that 360 has become the leading platform and Wii and Wii U are behind it.
The numbers you provided were from OCTOBER. Got any more current ones?
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Also, it's an awful thread name. 1. It's vague. Third party - who?
The point being, it's a third party developer/publisher partnership that is doing bang-up business on a Nintendo console. The party itself isn't of importance, it's what they're doing.
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2. "doing right" by who? Selling the best -- is not definitely not automatically means "doing right" by gamer.
In a way, I agree - however, selling the best can translate into a bunch of other things as well. Things that *are* important for us gamers.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Phil on March 02, 2015, 02:24:21 AM
For a better analogy since the first one wasn't apparently enough, if my only choice was getting stabbed or not. I would choose not getting stabbed. Just like if my only choice was VGChartz or nothing, I would rather choose nothing because at least nothing isn't a laughable site that's banned on sales discussion forums.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: UncleBob on March 02, 2015, 02:28:41 AM
Dude - I acknowledged that VGChartz has issues. Can we move on from that? I don't want yet another thread derailed because someone doesn't like VGChartz.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Stratos on March 02, 2015, 03:06:36 AM
This is a gamer site, UncleBob. Of course no one can get over the VGChartz issue because WE only use credible sources in ALL discussions. Haven;t you seen Khush and BnM's detailed footnotes and citations in our highest bastion of news reporting, the Funhouse?
In all fairness, there is truly no harm in using it for friendly discussion. It helps frame the conversation.
I think it is interesting to see the sales break down for these games, no matter the source.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Phil on March 02, 2015, 05:33:21 AM
Dude - I acknowledged that VGChartz has issues. Can we move on from that? I don't want yet another thread derailed because someone doesn't like VGChartz.
I didn't know previous topics have been derailed because of that. Sorry. I'll do everyone a favor and just ignore the topic.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Soren on March 02, 2015, 08:21:09 AM
Fun Fact: Even in the face of all publicly available data, VGChartz still lists NSMBU as the best selling Wii U game on their site.
What's the secret? I dunno, look at the remaining 3rd party games still coming to Nintendo platforms:
-Skylanders -Disney Infinity -LEGO games -Just Dance
I think we're on our way to cracking this code. We can do it guys!
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: UncleBob on March 02, 2015, 08:51:26 AM
High-budget, well-made children's games sell buttloads on Nintendo consoles - when they're marketed with Nintendo's marketshare in mind. Weird, eh?
Fixed that for you. Now, here is my problem with your argument: what 3rd party, physically-released AAA children's games do you think Wii U is missing out on, because from what I've seen Nintendo's already getting them? I'm sure you aren't saying that developers need to change the kind of games they make just to appeal to Nintendo's relatively-tiny marketshare, when they can sell millions of NON-"E for everybody" releases on the other platforms.
This is actually something of a larger problem with the industry, and we've actually talked about this on NFR before: with the exception of "toys to life" games like Skylanders & Infinity, these style of games have moved away from consoles and onto cellphones & tablets (which is where their audience is right now). You see some effort by the 1st party studios to still cater to that market, such as Sony with Little Big Planet 3 last year and Tearaway Unfolded & Ratchet & Clank this year, but for the most part those games are not as common now that the TV/movie games have gone elsewhere.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Louieturkey on March 02, 2015, 05:27:27 PM
BW makes a very interesting point. I hadn't realized it before but I can't get a Paw Patrol game for my son on the PS3 but I can get one on his Leadpad or on iOS. Most of the cookie cutter kids games have gone mobile it seems.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Ian Sane on March 02, 2015, 05:51:56 PM
Kids games on mobile brings up an interesting topic. If today's kids are raised playing videogames on phones will they ever switch to dedicated videogames systems or will they be content with phone crap because they've known nothing else? Will dedicated systems only sell to old farts like us who grew up with it as children?
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Stratos on March 02, 2015, 05:58:21 PM
They can make the jump just fine in Middle and High School. That is when friend's exposing friends to the new electronics really kicks into high gear. I know a lot of people who discovered video games for the first time during this age range.
The problem for us (Nintendo fans) is that the exposure is for XBox/PStation titles, not Nintendo titles.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: UncleBob on March 02, 2015, 06:37:33 PM
Kids games on mobile brings up an interesting topic. If today's kids are raised playing videogames on phones will they ever switch to dedicated videogames systems or will they be content with phone crap because they've known nothing else? Will dedicated systems only sell to old farts like us who grew up with it as children?
Naw - the 30/40's kids grew up on the crap that was Atari and the like. We had no trouble adjusting when the NES/SNES came out and showed us what real games were like.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: broodwars on March 02, 2015, 07:14:18 PM
Kids games on mobile brings up an interesting topic. If today's kids are raised playing videogames on phones will they ever switch to dedicated videogames systems or will they be content with phone crap because they've known nothing else? Will dedicated systems only sell to old farts like us who grew up with it as children?
Naw - the 30/40's kids grew up on the crap that was Atari and the like. We had no trouble adjusting when the NES/SNES came out and showed us what real games were like.
Well, I got my NES when I was 5, and so I followed the Nintendo path of systems really until the Wii era. It wasn't until I was older with disposable income and growing disdain for where Nintendo was going at the time that I really branched out to the other consoles. I didn't have a cellphone till I was probably Sophomore/Junior year of College, and I didn't have one that could play games of any value till just a few years ago. We had graphing calculators for that back in Middle/High School. ;) My concern right now is that today's kids are growing up with cellphones and tablets as their "gaming system", with a ton of cheap & disposable games that are "good enough": capable of rendering 3DS-caliber graphics or better on devices they always carry around with them. I really wonder how many of them are going to make the jump to dedicated gaming systems compared to even the 90s generation.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Ian Sane on March 02, 2015, 07:55:39 PM
Naw - the 30/40's kids grew up on the crap that was Atari and the like. We had no trouble adjusting when the NES/SNES came out and showed us what real games were like.
Atari games were what "real" games were at the time. That's no different from the move from Wii to Wii U.
They can make the jump just fine in Middle and High School. That is when friend's exposing friends to the new electronics really kicks into high gear. I know a lot of people who discovered video games for the first time during this age range.
They CAN make the jump but ARE they doing it? This is a relatively recent phenomenon. Just last gen kids were playing Wii and DS. When you were in middle school smartphones didn't exist so people you know that are your own age don't have the same experience that kids have now.
Anyone with kids in their lives know what is going on now? Maybe not so much your own kids since I figure you would steer them towards "real" games but maybe nephews and nieces or friends' kids where the parents aren't gamers.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Soren on March 02, 2015, 08:20:03 PM
Hey remember Tamagotchi? Huh...
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 02, 2015, 11:07:35 PM
To Ian's question my sisters all have kids. Non of them are close to gamers. My youngest sister used to be a Nintendo gamer up to Wii she loved it her husband hated it so he basically bullied her into PC/Tablet gaming when he got her an iPad. As far as I know her kids do not have cell phones but when they do play games its on the iPad. Ages are the boy, oldest is 8, girl is 5 and youngest boy will be 3 this May. They don't have a game console in their home at the moment and no plans to, the last one they had was 360 and they sold it a while back.
My other sister has 4 of her own kids, her new husband had 3 kids previous and the oldest of new kids has a baby new born recently. Her kids have nothing in their home as he, the new dad, is anti-gaming all about the sports so when they are with mom no games allowed in the house period, except occasionally on the cellphone.
On weekends at their dad's house they have an Xbox 360 and a Wii and 3DS. He lets them play games all they want the break down is like this oldest boy is 11, he likes Xbox and 3DS, the oldest girl is 8 or 9 she is not into games at all, youngest boy is 6 or 7 somewhere in that area, he doesn't play games either except when I have the kids he plays NES with me. The youngest girl, she is mommies leech so she doesn't game and isn't likely to ever.
Kid we used to baby sit long time ago, she grew up on Nintendo games because thats what I had in my house and my sisters all babysat her and I did too from time to time she was good friend of the family. She just turned 16 and is a gamer girl all the way loves Nintendo and Playstation. She also has ipad and Cell phone games.
My Oldest nephew is 17 gonna be 18 soon, he loved Wii when he was younger now hates it he is all Xbox all the way even hates Playstation. He does not game on his phone or PC but he doesn't have a PC. His dad is a computer programmer and tried to push him into PC gaming that failed. Anecdotal for sure but its a start, probably as reliable as VGcharts if you want to go there.
Now when *I* am around these kids I try to get them into gaming. The boys will all play Ninja Turtle games or Mortal Kombat with me, usually classic ones arcade and that era. The girls, when I do have them the closest I can get to them gaming is Mario on NES, usually Mario 3 seems to be the only one they will even try, oddly enough the only other game she will try is Ninja gaiden she is amazingly good at it so she likes to brag. I haven't seen these kids in close to two years but will have them all next week was planning on introducing them to Wii U gaming then, Mario 3D World, if I find the time, since Mario Party 10 won't be out yet and I haven't even opened Nintendo Land yet. Since I am taking them to the big zoo in Omaha chances of gaming are very slim anyways.
Now to be fair my family has a strong anti-video game bias party due to well me being such a gamer they think its you know bad influence or whatever. Also most of my family are rednecks who like Nascar and fishing and everything else is a waste of time to them anyways.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: broodwars on March 02, 2015, 11:41:41 PM
Fads come & go, but fads don't generally last as long as mobile has, and it's not going away anytime soon (especially as its technology only continues to improve and its userbase continues to grow).
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Ymeegod on March 03, 2015, 06:30:22 AM
Atari had it's moments though but back then it was the "wii" of it's days where more games were made but few gems were created. The Atari 2600 was my first console and even though I was around 3 I still recall games like Pitfall, Joust, Asteroids, and hell even Mario Bros started out on that console.
Atari just didn't know enough how to market itself and people ended up with crap like ET because of the name brand. That's one thing Nintendo did right, make sure games were actually Playable before printing them on carts.
Yes, I own ET too--even though I was only 4 or 5 at the time I still recall it being a sh!t game that made no sense at all.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Soren on March 03, 2015, 07:50:43 AM
Fad or not, kids growing up in the 90's had a non dedicated gaming console to do gaming with, the Tamagotchi. And it was a pretty big fad.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2015, 12:56:05 PM
marvel_moviefan's brothers-in-law sound like pretty lame guys to me. But since I'm a geek that probably means they're seen as really cool guys by most of the world.
Smart phones in general as clearly not a fad. I'm like a geezer by saying "smart phone" or "cellphone" because it's really just "phone". That's what a phone is in 2015 and phones are no fad. We're not going to suddenly go to having phones that don't also function like a handheld computer. A handheld computer is capable of some sort of videogames so it will continue to have games, no different than how personal computers still have games because they're capable of it.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: UncleBob on March 03, 2015, 01:18:35 PM
Atari games were what "real" games were at the time.
Cell phone games are "real" games now. Just because kids are used to low-quality ****, it doesn't mean they won't accept the better stuff when exposed to it.
I can't be the only one here who really wanted the-highly-advertised-game-based-off-of-a-popular-license-of-the-day and was later disappointed to find out the game was complete crap. Bad games didn't ruin my idea of gaming, and I have faith that it won't for others.
Cell phone games are "real" games now. Just because kids are used to low-quality ****, it doesn't mean they won't accept the better stuff when exposed to it.
Umm...yes, it does, or have you missed all the stories about companies unable to make money on the app store/google play store because the ceiling for games on those platforms is $.99 (if it hasn't been lowered to "free" already)? They won't accept the better stuff because they refuse to PAY for the better stuff.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 03, 2015, 05:42:04 PM
It's actually what caused the crash in 83 so we could either be in store for another crash or this really is the trend. Either way if it were true there was no market for dedicated gaming consoles why in the hell is PS4 doing so damn fine? Gaming as a whole has grown bigger than it was in the 90's and yet the industry managed to survive the lower sales and onslaught of crap back then.
UB, you missed the point ALL of the games he mentioned on Atari started out in Arcades but they had their console debut, either literal or its what people remember because its what they owned, on Atari. except E.T but come on that was a rush job to fit a movie release those games always suck.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: broodwars on March 03, 2015, 05:46:32 PM
It's actually what caused the crash in 83 so we could either be in store for another crash or this really is the trend. Either way if it were true there was no market for dedicated gaming consoles why in the hell is PS4 doing so damn fine?
Because the PS4 isn't targeting the app store generation. It's targeting us, the older generation who still buy and play traditional games. On the flipside, pretty much the entire audience Nintendo gained with the Wii has gone to mobile, and a large portion of those that haven't have gone to Sony or Microsoft instead. Sony's doing alright (for now) because they're not relying on the audience Nintendo relied on. Where I'm concerned is 3-5 years down the line when the app store generation has become the primary audience.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 03, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Is it really the case? Hasn't the industry said all along that the typical gamer is a 35 year old male has that changed? Was that the statistic when *we* were kids? If so then I suspect it will remain the same, these kids will do what we did they will discover the good games when they get older and continue to drive the industry forward and they will buy the consoles for their kids its an endless cycle.
Believe it or not my parents used to be gamers my mom could get the high score on Pac-Man or Asteroids both in the arcades we had and on our Atari, she played NES for a good while too then slowly she stopped gaming as much, Tetris and Mario party from time to time but then Wii came along and she was right there. I saw that a lot people from the 70's who were adults in the 80's, OUR parents, playing Pong, Atari, etc, and they raised US on video games, we grew up and are raising our kids and the cycle continues.
Cell phone games might replace Game Boy (or DS) games and Tablet games might replace PC games in the sense that cell phones will replace dedicated handheld devices and Tablets will replace dedicated PC's, but I even question if that is going to happen. The dedicated game console has no replacement because it serves a purpose. The closest to come along is Steam machine and they dropped the ball on that one.
The gaming market has always supported FOUR different markets, since the early 80's on. It used to be games were made for Arcades, Consoles, Handhelds, and PC's, even when "PC" was divided into about 6 different standards and the industry still managed to survive.
Think of cell phones and tablets as replacing Arcades, the cheap quick pick up and play game you drop a couple quarters in when you are waiting for your food. That is what cell phone games have replaced, the other markets live on unphased. Long term trends still point to a 4 platform market I can see that being sustainable at least for another decade since its lasted 3 so far.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2015, 07:39:56 PM
Has the typical gamer been 35 year old males forever or has it come that way as kids who played games in the early 80's have reached 35? I didn't play in the Atari era but in the NES/SNES era I didn't know any adults who played videogames. But then it might be because my parents didn't play games so they emphasized that videogames were some dumb kids' interest.
It seems like videogames have followed along with me as I've gotten older, at least in the console front. The PlayStation 1 was very much marketed as the sort of thing teenagers would want to play over the more kid focused Nintendo consoles of previous generations. I become a teen and, boom, here's a teen focused console. Today the PS4 is selling with people my age. It's not really aimed at the younger generation raised with the Wii or with phone games. So has Sony remained a steady force in gaming or have they just been selling to the same audience for 20 years? Nintendo didn't change as the NES audience got older and steadily lost them and then found success with a new audience on the Wii but then has lost that audience as well.
Is the audience of the big three growing or are they just selling to people born in the 20th century?
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: UncleBob on May 30, 2015, 03:46:18 AM
There's been rumblings and discussions about this for awhile now...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YI79BJC/
Skylanders 5 is very likely going to have a release on the Wii. I'm not surprised - the last numbers I saw (not VGChartz, but not industry-wide) had the Wii version outselling all three "next-gen" consoles (went 360, Wii, Wii U, with the 360 and Wii systems being pretty close). Looks like we might have a Wii release after Rodea, if the October release frame for Skylanders games holds consistent. And it'll be a third-party title. Weird.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 30, 2015, 10:44:17 AM
This is a game for babies.
Title: Re: Third Party doing something right...
Post by: UncleBob on May 30, 2015, 10:51:24 AM
