Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: Oblivion on August 06, 2014, 06:48:31 PM
Title: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 06, 2014, 06:48:31 PM
http://blog.twitch.tv/2014/08/3136/
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: ShyGuy on August 06, 2014, 08:37:53 PM
Wow, I watch little on Twitch, but when I do, I usually track it down on Youtube because I missed the original broadcast. I won't be able to do that anymore, right?
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 06, 2014, 08:39:19 PM
More likely than not.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: pokepal148 on August 06, 2014, 10:21:03 PM
I'm pretty sure if they didn't do this stuff they'd be more dead.
And I didn't even know they had VOD.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 06, 2014, 10:28:08 PM
Then you haven't used the site very much because it's a pretty big feature that most people know about. Hell, some streamers I can only catch by watching an older recording.
Also, **** the mod that removed my glorious first post. It's not like it was harming anyone. No one was gonna read the post anyway
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: UncleBob on August 06, 2014, 10:30:34 PM
I don't mind this for the most part, but I wish the DCMA had some kind of automatic penalty to individuals when someone files a false DCMA claim against them.
I think that would be a lot more fair for consumers.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 06, 2014, 10:37:16 PM
How is it fair? These people are just listening to music. It's not like viewers are listening to an 8 hour stream to listen to one 3 minute song. It's friggin' ridiculous.
Not to mention that in-game music is getting flagged. On a video game streaming site. Causing 30+ minutes of footage getting muted. It's a program doing this, not individual people.
Nah dude, it isn't fair at all.
EDIT: Not only that, even those that get permission for their music gets flagged and muted.
Oh, and this is now the only song that can be played through the GTA V radio if you stream the game:
On, a stream I was watching got muted during The Last of Us. A game that is 70% silence (no music). She wasn't playing music at the time.
Yeah. Fair.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: UncleBob on August 06, 2014, 10:54:35 PM
Many of what you complained about would come under my suggestion for a "False Claim" cause. Got permission, then get flagged anyway? False claim. No music? False claim.
While I don't *agree* with this type of enforcement, the fact is the streamers don't own the music, thus don't have the right to broadcast it.
I think it's a bad tactic, but they're within their rights.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 06, 2014, 10:59:11 PM
But no one is getting punished for that false claim. It just happens because the program has no check or balance built in. Its the same one for Youtube. And so far, there's no way to contact Google or twitch to undue a false claim.
I'd like to know how it's fair that in-game music is claimed. Please, I'd love for you to justify that.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 06, 2014, 11:01:09 PM
Why care about this? Nothing will change. Some videos will have muted audio, bfd.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: UncleBob on August 06, 2014, 11:05:02 PM
But no one is getting punished for that false claim. It just happens because the program has no check or balance built in. Its the same one for Youtube. And so far, there's no way to contact Google or twitch to undue a false claim.
Again, as I stated originally and will repeat again because you seem to have missed it twice now: "I wish the DCMA had some kind of automatic penalty to individuals when someone files a false DCMA claim against them."
Quote
I'd like to know how it's fair that in-game music is claimed. Please, I'd love for you to justify that.
Did you create the music?
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: pokepal148 on August 06, 2014, 11:14:42 PM
Are you referring to the GTA radio music? That's you're "ingame" music? That is music licensed to rockstar for use in the game but it still isn't owned by Rockstar, thus in a legal setting it would be more accurate to refer it as licensed music.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 06, 2014, 11:57:48 PM
Are you referring to the GTA radio music? That's you're "ingame" music? That is music licensed to rockstar for use in the game but it still isn't owned by Rockstar, thus in a legal setting it would be more accurate to refer it as licensed music.
Nah, even in-game as in the game's soundtrack is flagged.
Again, as I stated originally and will repeat again because you seem to have missed it twice now: "I wish the DCMA had some kind of automatic penalty to individuals when someone files a false DCMA claim against them."
ANd like I said, which you ignore: that does bumfuck to their own program. That is what I am talking about.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: UncleBob on August 07, 2014, 12:17:50 AM
The reason why this is in place (and as is covered in the blog YOU posted) is because of the DMCA.
If there was a legitimate system in place to protect individuals from "copyright harassment", you'd be less likely to see some kind of fully automated system like this in place.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: pokepal148 on August 07, 2014, 12:27:34 AM
The fact that they didn't go straight to Google's wonder-Ok, I can't even make the joke here, come on, googles content id thing is garbage, to me is a good sign right away.
I'd say give it a month or so. That way they can adjust some algorithms as needed.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: MegaByte on August 07, 2014, 12:39:37 AM
I'd say give it a month or so. That way they can adjust some algorithms as needed.
Google's had how many years to "adjust some algorithms"?
More then enough. The fact that they haven't put some system to prove that you own the copyright that you claim is being infringed is bad enough.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: lolmonade on August 07, 2014, 10:22:34 AM
I don't know about you guys, but grainy background copyrighted music with someone talking over it while video game sounds are playing is the best audio experience for me, and why I haven't bought an album in years. This is deeply upsetting to me.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 07, 2014, 01:21:49 PM
I just completed a course in copyright law for my broadcasting major last year, this easily falls under infringement especially when Pandora and radio stations have to pay so much to broadcast music and they constantly interrupt music with commentary as well as station promos all the time. People might forget radio DJ's still exist but they do make a living broadcasting licensed music and it affects their jobs and their value if others get away with doing it for free illegally. I also work for a wedding company and our DJ's have to pay for every song they play, we have licensing deals in place that allow for most music but weddings are cluttered with all sorts of back ground noise and they still have to pay to play those songs.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 03:25:17 PM
I don't think anyone's arguing the companies don't have the right to go after people using their content without permission; the argument is that for something on this scale it's unnecessary to be so draconian about it. Whatever they may think they've gained from it is probably wiped out by the bad PR stemming from it.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 07, 2014, 04:45:45 PM
That is what I meant, our DJ company only plays music to a small crowd one night a week and they still have toi pay royalties for the music. I am pretty sure more people are tuning in to twitch per video than even the biggest wedding we do. It doesn't matter how small scale it is. Now if Twitch only streamed to game consoles and was not accessible from outside the privacy of your bedroom it might be a different story. The size of the audience does not matter, never has. There are radio DJ's whose entire listening area are less than some videos on Youtube.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 05:40:39 PM
Like I opened that post, they absolutely are within their rights to pursue this. I'm just saying the way it's handled is extremely poor, and only serves to get people upset about it.
UncleBob's right on this, the DMCA needs to be amended to have mechanics for people to fight back against false positives. Really, the burden of proof should be on the entity claiming infringement, but the way it is now allows big corporations to bully end users.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 07, 2014, 06:09:25 PM
amending the DMCA is easier said than done, every attempt at doing so only ushers in a new era of oh no censorship outcries. To be fair, Google was sued into their current stance so they are just covering their asses better safe than sorry kind of thing. It just is more of the entitlement mentality a lot of this generation have, they don't think they are doing anything wrong because they never had to pay for music before to them that sounds foreign but they also never had to work as a starving musician getting screwed by the record companies either so its not like they get either point of view they just bitch when something they didn't earn is taken away.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 07:28:45 PM
If they're getting stuff taken down that came directly from a game stream via a share feature that's heavily advertised on a site specifically designed for streaming games I don't see how that shouldn't be considered fair use.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 07, 2014, 07:40:52 PM
If they're getting stuff taken down that came directly from a game stream via a share feature that's heavily advertised on a site specifically designed for streaming games I don't see how that shouldn't be considered fair use.
Napster advertised their service as used for perfectly legit purposes too and they still got shut down.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 07:51:49 PM
1. Napster and Twitch are apples and oranges here. Twitch is built into the PS4 and anyone who's made a game for it was aware of that and tacitly endorsed it. 2. Napster was shut down because the RIAA had many more and much more expensive lawyers than they did.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 07, 2014, 08:22:24 PM
If they're getting stuff taken down that came directly from a game stream via a share feature that's heavily advertised on a site specifically designed for streaming games I don't see how that shouldn't be considered fair use.
Napster advertised their service as used for perfectly legit purposes too and they still got shut down.
In what world is that a similar comparison.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 09, 2014, 12:31:24 AM
I didn't say they were the same, insanolord said they advertised the service so therefore it equals legit, I was pointing out that they advertised non-infrigning aspects of Napster they still got shut down. I was not saying Naspter is the same as Twich god damn you guys can't think I am that stupid damn.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 09, 2014, 12:44:44 AM
My point was that anyone who makes games for the PS4 is aware that the system offers that, and I'd imagine part of their deals with Sony include explicitly authorizing that. I they don't want people doing that, don't support the system.
And Napster shouldn't have been shut down; to get a bit tongue-in-cheek, file sharing services don't pirate things, people pirate things. A small operation like them couldn't out-litigate the big money lawyers of the RIAA, though.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 09, 2014, 12:50:46 AM
I'm curious, why did Limewire get shut down? For the same reasons as Napster?
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 09, 2014, 12:53:13 AM
My point was that anyone who makes games for the PS4 is aware that the system offers that, and I'd imagine part of their deals with Sony include explicitly authorizing that. I they don't want people doing that, don't support the system.
And Napster shouldn't have been shut down; to get a bit tongue-in-cheek, file sharing services don't pirate things, people pirate things. A small operation like them couldn't out-litigate the big money lawyers of the RIAA, though.
I am not advocating taking the whole thing down but I am pointing out that very thing, the fear of litigation is what motivates being overly cautious in the first place, remember Google got sued over infringement on Youtube way back when they first bought it and that is why they take a preemptive stance, to cover their own asses. I know its not fair but it is better than getting shut down like Napster did which is what would happen if they didn't take a proactive stance to stop infringement even if it is perceived and not real.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: tendoboy1984 on August 14, 2014, 04:50:51 PM
Many of what you complained about would come under my suggestion for a "False Claim" cause. Got permission, then get flagged anyway? False claim. No music? False claim.
While I don't *agree* with this type of enforcement, the fact is the streamers don't own the music, thus don't have the right to broadcast it.
I think it's a bad tactic, but they're within their rights.
When you put it that way they technically don't "own" the games either. Unless by own you mean bought... Well many people do buy their songs, so in that sense they own them as much as they own the games they're streaming.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 14, 2014, 05:00:16 PM
This is the worst thread. For today at least.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 25, 2014, 06:43:14 PM
Amazon bought Twitch.TV.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: Oblivion on August 25, 2014, 08:05:45 PM
Yep. To be honest, nothing has really changed. Amazon is just as bad as Google and the VOD changes are still active and aren't going away. It may sway some people, but Twitch is still dead to me.
Title: Re: TWITCH.TV IS DEAD
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 25, 2014, 11:46:36 PM
