Post by: NWR_Neal on March 17, 2014, 12:46:33 PM
Even that new R.B.I. Baseball isn't coming to Wii U. That means the only new sports games on Nintendo systems have Mario in the title.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/36825/why-wii-u-needs-nintendo-pennant-chase-baseball
I carried a weird torch as a gamer 10 years ago. I was one of the few who was a serious sports gamer and only had a GameCube. That meant I had a whole lot of memory cards and rushed out to buy Madden and MVP Baseball on release day to game shop clerk's bewilderment ("Don't you mean the PS2 version...?"). I clung onto that torch even as I became a multi-console owner, trying out The Bigs when it came to Wii and more or less falling in love with what EA did with Madden and Tiger Woods on the system. When Wii U launched, I relished playing Madden and FIFA, as the GamePad added so much to each experience.
Now, that's all gone.
As of 2013, traditional sports games do not come to Nintendo platforms, with the final nail in the coffin being the MLB's very own R.B.I. Baseball 14, which is coming to essentially every active platform outside of Wii U and 3DS. Before then, there's a laundry list of series that stopped supporting the Wii, Wii U, and 3DS. Here, I even made a list for you:
- Due to a focus on HD graphics, the Tiger Woods series skipped the Wii in 2012 after the system was the home to arguably the best entries in the series thanks to Wii MotionPlus support.
- The NHL 2K series was a Wii exclusive back in 2010. That was also the last year the series produced a game. The only appearance of the EA NHL series was NHL Slapshot in 2010, which was actually a fun game.
- NBA 2K13 was a Wii U launch title. I don't even think anyone asked if it wasn't coming to Wii U. We all just sort of got the memo.
- FIFA 13 was also a Wii U launch title, but the series stopped there. "Legacy" Wii and 3DS versions of FIFA 14 came out last year, which were literally just updated rosters.
- After Madden 13 was a Wii U launch title, EA said, "We will not be releasing a Wii U version of Madden NFL in 2013. However, we have a strong partnership with Nintendo and will continue to evaluate opportunities for delivering additional Madden NFL products for Nintendo fans in the future." The last product of EA's strong partnership with Nintendo was Need for Speed: Most Wanted U a year ago, which basically led to the developer's co-founder quitting. EA has nothing further announced for Nintendo platforms.
- If you just owned Nintendo systems, you might think that baseball doesn't exist anymore as there hasn't been an MLB game since 2012, and even that was just a horrible port of the same crappy baseball that had been out on the system every year prior. Your best bet might have been Virtual Console releases of Bases Loaded.
This isn't the first time Nintendo's faced something like this before. When 2K Sports acquired the exclusive third-party MLB rights, there were no plans for a GameCube baseball game. The company took matters into its own hands with Nintendo Pennant Chase Baseball, initially planned for a 2005 release. Made by World Series Baseball 2K2 developers Exile Interactive, it was originally coming that spring. Mike Sklens even previewed it at E3. However, Pennant Chase Baseball was delayed and eventually quietly cancelled. According to numerous sources at Exile, the game was finished and apparently pretty awesome. None of them had any reason why it was cancelled. We have heard that Nintendo decided to hold off on releasing it because delays pushed it until the end of the baseball season. It's unknown why it wasn't just held back for the next baseball season, but 2K Sports bringing MLB 2K to GameCube the next year might have been a reason why Nintendo just shut the project down. If you have access to the supposed finished version of Nintendo Pennant Chase Baseball, feel free to contact me. I'd love to play it.
As someone who never had any fun with the MLB 2K series, I'm bummed we never got to see Nintendo Pennant Chase Baseball. However, I think it's a fine time to bring it back. There are no licensed sports games on Nintendo platforms anymore. The system is barren. Imagine if Nintendo worked with a Western developer on a new sports game backed by a major sports license. Work with the MLB to rekindle the days of Ken Griffey Jr. baseball games, but now with Robinson Cano at the helm. Go see what Left Field is doing and make another NBA Courtside game before Kobe retires.
Obviously, with Nintendo's sales position, throwing a bunch of money at sports licenses probably isn't advisable. It likely doesn't even make sense. But there is a gargantuan gap in their system's portfolios. Step up the scope of Wii Sports. Make a Mario baseball game that doesn't feel like the equivalent of a Mario Kart game with baseball games instead of races. Do something to tap into the sports gamer market.
Who am I kidding? Even when I juggled multiple memory cards on my GameCube for Madden franchises, I was the last of a dying breed. Sports gamers left Nintendo systems years ago. I adapted and started playing MLB The Show on Sony platforms. I spent a lot of time playing Madden on PS3 and PS4 last year. The sports gamer has left Nintendo, much like the countless other types of players that have little reason to mainline their systems.
RPG lovers mostly left Nintendo back in the Nintendo 64 days (coming back for some sweet portable bliss like Dragon Quest and Bravely Default). First-person shooter fans haven't had much of a reason to play their systems since Perfect Dark or maybe Metroid Prime. More and more, a Nintendo system is truly just for Nintendo games and nothing more. It's not even an option; it's just the way things are. That's what the exile of sports games represents.
I feel like, now more than ever, we need some sort of sports-related excitement. Bring back the fun sports games from yesteryear. R.B.I. Baseball could be a flop, but the idea of it is something that should be happening on Nintendo platforms. It's a fun arcade experience that calls to mind NES and SNES sports games. The closest we get to that these days are sporadic Mario sports games.
More than likely, most sports games are just gone from Nintendo systems, never to come back as the company shifts its focus and deals with the financial losses. I'll hold out hope, but until then, if you like sports games, you should just get another system. The days when it was even possible to play most sports games on Nintendo systems is gone. Just like how first-person shooter players either need to cope with lame online communities or play Steel Diver: Sub Wars, and how fans of a variety of series can look forward to no Dark Souls, Mass Effect, Grand Theft Auto, and too many more never coming to Wii U or 3DS.
Post by: KITT 10K on March 17, 2014, 01:50:17 PM
Post by: xcwarrior on March 17, 2014, 02:00:12 PM
I would be all for a Ken Griffery reboot, or a Baseball Stars reboot, or something. Heck at this point I just want a better Virtual console option on WiiU and 3DS (again, Baseball Stars 1 from the NES, please to celebrate opening day in 2 weeks)!
I was with Neal in that I was a rare serious sports gamer who did it on Nintendo system. I have MLB the Show, but well I want a Nintendo option as well.
Post by: NWR_Neal on March 17, 2014, 02:07:20 PM
(This is just my opinion because I'm not sure how things work in the industry.) I'm not one for playing sports on a video game console, (I have owned a few but I'm just not that big into them), but even I think this is stupid.
"First they came for the big third-party games, and I said 'I'll be fine with Dead Space: Extraction.'
Then they came for the first-person shooters, and I said 'I'll be fine with The Conduit. Sequel's supposed to be good.'
Then they gave us some third-party games but they all sold bad and like Mass Effect 3 came out for the same price as Mass Effect Trilogy on other systems, and I said 'Whatever, dude.'
Then they came for the sports games, and I said 'Meh. Never really played them much.'
Then they came for the RPGs, and I said 'Well, at least we had Bravely Default that one time.'
Then they came for the platformers, and there was no one left."
That's more of my point here. Not that it is 100% imperative that Nintendo makes sports games, but more that sports games are essentially a dead genre on Nintendo platforms and that sucks. It's a problem. Maybe a solution is Nintendo funding a new sports game? Maybe? I don't know. That'd be cool.
Post by: Qbert Farnsworth on March 17, 2014, 02:08:34 PM
As I've grown older, I've realized that I just don't have time for sports games any more. As a kid, a game of Ken Griffey Jr Baseball on the SNES took 15-20 minutes so a full 162-game season took 40-50 hours. A game of MLB The Show takes 40-minutes just for the on-field stuff. Likewise, a full-season takes 120 hours or more. I can play 3-6 regular games in their entirety in that amount of time. Until a sports game comes out that is described as "changing the way you view base/foot/basket-ball games," I can safely set them aside.
Post by: Evan_B on March 17, 2014, 04:17:07 PM
Post by: Leo13 on March 17, 2014, 05:33:08 PM
What about Star Fox Jam/Blitz (NBA Jam/NFL Blitz)
If EA says no go to 2K and offer DK2K Basketball/Football. I had a ton of fun playing NBA 2K13 on my Wii U if 2K sports changed names faces and logos for the entire spectra of Nintendo IP, but it was a the same game I'd buy it without hesitation.
Do any of you NWR guys have good contacts at Nintendo? Plant the idea!
Post by: Sonicsoymilk on March 17, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
Post by: AV on March 17, 2014, 05:54:11 PM
Post by: Soren on March 17, 2014, 07:18:44 PM
My solution is simple and even though it involves throwing money at the problem (honestly, what other suggestion doesn't involve throwing money at it?) I think it can help Nintendo in the short run: help out the third parties by establishing a shared cost (50/50) in porting over a Wii U version of FIFA, Madden, NHL, and NBA 2k. Third parties take care of porting over the basic game, and a small team at Nintendo work on making Wii U and GamePad-specific features for it. Not only do you ensure a game that uses the Wii U's features uniquely, you also keep the base experience level with the other consoles by having the folks at EA scramble for excuses to use the GamePad and just have them working on what they want.
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on March 17, 2014, 07:35:30 PM
A funny thing happened in that GCN/PS2/XBOX generation - sports games stopped advancing. I bought Madden 2011 on PS3 and realized that outside of graphics and a tweak here or there, it's essentially the same game as Madden 2002.Your opinion, it's wrong but you're entitled to your opinion.
Quote
As I've grown older, I've realized that I just don't have time for sports games any more.Then why comment on a genre that you clearly don't like? I don't go filling all the FPS threads with isn't this the same thing as the original Halo, it hasn't advanced at all in 10 years.
Quote
As a kid, a game of Ken Griffey Jr Baseball on the SNES took 15-20 minutes so a full 162-game season took 40-50 hours. A game of MLB The Show takes 40-minutes just for the on-field stuff. Likewise, a full-season takes 120 hours or more.Clearly you don't like simulations, but prefer arcade type games. That's not a reason to knock simulations. I liked Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball too. I played a 26 game season last year. The gameplay is terribly repetitive and I don't think I could ever make it through a 162 game season. I never did when I was 12 and I thought it was the best game ever so I certainly won't now.
Quote
I can play 3-6 regular games in their entirety in that amount of time. Until a sports game comes out that is described as "changing the way you view base/foot/basket-ball games," I can safely set them aside.If you don't care, then why comment? Obviously other people care and there is no reason to pretend like you are better than others because you like more "sophisticated" games. This is likely one of the big reasons why Sony/Microsoft control the market over Nintendo whether you care or not. Sports and of course the very popular FPS. But you should care. I get that Nintendo has piles of money, but their console strategy is fatally flawed. I don't see how they can ever become relevant again in the console market, it's not like another Mario game is going to excite the market to buy Wii U's. They need lots of games. Games that you like, and games that other people like that you may not like. They can either acquire a few dozen studios and start producing several times the games they produce now (including genres they don't make and mature games) or they can play nice with third parties. Neither strategy is likely. So you'll be happy getting Nintendo games until they decide consoles aren't worth it and stop producing the games you like.
Post by: Shaymin on March 17, 2014, 08:24:37 PM
There's a good number of baseball fans who buy Sony systems strictly for The Show, so a quality basketball title that did something with the Gamepad beyond the obvious drawing of plays could actually help. (Just... don't get Kevin Durant to be the endorser... I suspect the employees at NOA will be none too pleased.)
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on March 17, 2014, 08:37:11 PM
Also... why would Kevin Durant be a bad spokesperson? I tried to google, but couldn't really find why NOA would be upset with him.
Post by: Soren on March 17, 2014, 09:22:24 PM
Nintendo could easily reboot Ken Griffey presents MLB, they could have it include the next hot superstar (Mike Trout). Or if it has to be Mariner, then you can get Robinson Cano.
NBA Live was a good experiment though. I had fun with that game. But arcade sports games are too much of a niche when everyone buys the simulation games, even if just to create arcade elements there (example: NHL's "94 control scheme")
The collaboration strategy would be the best deal short term. Then you can decide if you want to go full on in-house for the future.
Post by: doodies on March 18, 2014, 10:20:15 AM
What we really need is some unlicensed, high quality sports game like AE games are doing with Mad Men Football. Anything a sports organization has touched lately suffered the heavy use of attention to detail and rosters at the expense of fun. Mario and Wii Sports were right all along.
Post by: rlse9 on March 18, 2014, 11:35:46 AM
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 18, 2014, 03:45:03 PM
Post by: Mop it up on March 18, 2014, 05:38:04 PM
Not only that, but Nintendo's effort would have to be able to at least match the feature set of competing sports games. Given Nintendo's track record with online, I don't think they would be offering the same robust online features that the other sports games get. And that wouldn't fly.
Post by: Ian Sane on March 18, 2014, 05:52:42 PM
What Nintendo needs is a console that the general public wants to buy and third parties want to support. The Wii U fails on both. A baseball game is a drop in the bucket in comparison. They fix the big picture stuff and the lesser problems like a lack of sports games will correct themselves.
If Nintendo was to focus on filling a specific genre gap I think FPS would make much more sense. Nintendo being without that genre is like a console from the 8 and 16 bit eras not having sidescrolling platformers. I would be in favour of Nintendo making more of an effort (and by that I mean any effort at all) to target specific genre gaps and fill them. That would be much better than their "focus on platformers and ignore all else" approach they've seemingly taken on with the Wii U. I think that would be a good step to recovery and something to do to tend the fort until third parties get back. But this won't matter on the Wii U. It's one of the many things to do with the Wii U successor.
Post by: jarodea on March 18, 2014, 09:05:24 PM
I think this is like looking at someone with all their limbs broken and focusing on a small cut on their forehead. Yeah the Wii U needs sports games but it also needs a whole bunch of genres. If Nintendo had decent third party support then this wouldn't be an issue. All major sports titles, as well as most major third party games period, would be on their console.
What Nintendo needs is a console that the general public wants to buy and third parties want to support. The Wii U fails on both. A baseball game is a drop in the bucket in comparison. They fix the big picture stuff and the lesser problems like a lack of sports games will correct themselves.
If Nintendo was to focus on filling a specific genre gap I think FPS would make much more sense. Nintendo being without that genre is like a console from the 8 and 16 bit eras not having sidescrolling platformers. I would be in favour of Nintendo making more of an effort (and by that I mean any effort at all) to target specific genre gaps and fill them. That would be much better than their "focus on platformers and ignore all else" approach they've seemingly taken on with the Wii U. I think that would be a good step to recovery and something to do to tend the fort until third parties get back. But this won't matter on the Wii U. It's one of the many things to do with the Wii U successor.
That's pretty much the problem with any discussion of the Wii U's problems, there are so very many that any one is but a drop in the bucket. It also doesn't help that, as you note, any real solutions will only affect the Wii U's successor given that "solutions" for the Wii U would have needed to have been started 3-5 years ago.
I agree that FPS' are probably a better route to go but even they amount to only a few drops in the bucket, they really need a total rehaul at all levels. Anyhoo, I get the feeling that this is all whistling past the graveyard at this point.
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on March 18, 2014, 10:01:31 PM
I'd be even happier if Nintendo would just pay Konami to make or localize MLB Power Pros again. I own all 3 NA releases and it is by far my favorite baseball series.
Wait, what? There is a third Power Pros game? I have Power Pros and 2008 for the Wii, are you talking about the DS game?
Back on point, anything is going to start as a drop in the bucket. I'd just be happy if Nintendo did something because it would acknowledge a problem exists and then there may be a point in the future where changes/momentum put Nintendo in a point where they are competitive again. Right now, I have little hope for Nintendo's future consoles on a competitive front. It used to be hyperbole to say you only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. Now it's reality.
Post by: jarodea on March 19, 2014, 09:40:57 PM
I'd be even happier if Nintendo would just pay Konami to make or localize MLB Power Pros again. I own all 3 NA releases and it is by far my favorite baseball series.
Wait, what? There is a third Power Pros game? I have Power Pros and 2008 for the Wii, are you talking about the DS game?
Back on point, anything is going to start as a drop in the bucket. I'd just be happy if Nintendo did something because it would acknowledge a problem exists and then there may be a point in the future where changes/momentum put Nintendo in a point where they are competitive again. Right now, I have little hope for Nintendo's future consoles on a competitive front. It used to be hyperbole to say you only buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. Now it's reality.
Yeah, I mean the DS MLB Power Pros, which I own. It has all the gameplay fun of the console versions just not anything other than single game or small tourney play. Turned out to be worth it for the multiplayer single cart download fun.
On point, I agree fully, babies and badly injured people need to start somewhere even if it is a single step. I'd be more than happy to hear any serious talk from Iwata that he is moving in the proper direction, but so far it seems he just wants to chase the ephemeral DS/Wii casuals into QoL rather than taking a serious thought at what needs to be done to survive in the video game industry long term.
