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Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Grey Ninja on June 19, 2003, 06:51:04 AM

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on June 19, 2003, 06:51:04 AM

Red Book audio... I really don't get what the big deal is.  I constantly hear people complaining about Nintendo's insistence on using sequenced audio rather than redbook, and I personally just DON'T GET IT.

I was playing Wind Waker last night though.  I was sailing the Great Sea aimlessly (a favorite activity of mine.  ), and I decided to stop so that I could make a recording of the sailing music or something.  I just noticed when I did that that a couple of the instruments faded out when I stopped, and resumed when I started going again.  Hell, that might be the cause of my love for sailing in the game right there!  There's just something... fantastic about getting the wind behind your sail and heading out to the sea.  The music might have a lot to do with that.  The extra oomph that the sequenced audio gives makes it all the more thrilling as well.

I know a few people that whine and complain about the poor samples, or whatever have you.  I am not a musician, so I could really care less.  I just know that it sounds great to me, and the game works with the music to an extreme level.  The sailing theme isn't the only music that's changed in real time, and it all just goes together SO well.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 19, 2003, 08:57:40 AM

I agree.  Actually, I am a musician, of sorts.  I play the trumpet, and I've had experience with the piano.  But I like Nintendo's music, it's dynamic and involving and great in every concievable way.

I made an MP3 CD the other day, and it has about 30 Nintendo songs on it (Zelda and Metroid Prime).

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Bartman3010 on June 21, 2003, 01:44:46 AM

Gotta love their crazy creative ways.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: ThePerm on June 22, 2003, 08:44:50 PM

i say use both..i love the dynamic sound they currently use..but i think at times they should use redbook..or a combination..if its handled right it can be awesome..if youv ever heard the hyrule symphony album or the other one you'll be like wow. Both would be great.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on June 22, 2003, 10:20:08 PM

I am still an 8-bit gamer at heart though.  I really don't think that fully orchestrated tracks really suit a game that well.  I like the flavor of sequenced audio better.  I am just accustomed to it maybe, but even though I like the symphonic Zelda tracks, I prefer the sequenced stuff in game, both in quality, and in tricks, like the above.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: ThePerm on June 23, 2003, 07:45:10 PM

 i really loved the music in wizards and warriors 1-3 on nes....i want to make a game similar to this in the future....and the music is perfectly fitting...however i think of doing liek remixes.....i like the synth sounding music

Title: RE: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 24, 2003, 01:56:36 PM

I like to see a bit of both.  I must admit that at times I find myself thinking, "This music sucks"...Shadow Mario's theme from SMS comes to mind, but overall I like the synthesized stuff too, especially when it's really put to work...Zelda made great use of it, I really liked the way all of the fights were accented with musical notes.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: mouse_clicker on June 24, 2003, 03:46:00 PM

I think people only really complained when there was a noticable difference between synthesized and orchestrated. With the continuing advance of technology, the two have become almost impossible to distinguish (I was just thinking that a couple days ago while playing Wind Waker). I still would like Nintendo to orchestrate independant pieces, though (like in cut scenes). However, that's an excellent point for having synthesized music that I never even considered.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Hostile Creation on June 24, 2003, 04:32:07 PM

I like synthesized music, but there are some awesome orchestrated ones.  Fountain of Dreams from Super Smash Bros Melee is one of them.  Awesome song.

Orchestrated cut-scenes might be nice, but it doesn't really matter that much to me.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: HolyPaladin on June 28, 2003, 05:04:14 AM

I like the kind of dynamics you get with synthesized tunes.  Nintendo titles have done neat stuff with the background tunes for years, evident in many N64 titles including Ocarina of Time and Banjo Kazooie.  In many such games that I have played, the tune varies in instrumentation depending on the circumstances, changing from location to location and, as in OoT's case, blending from the normal background tune to a battle tune as you neared an enemy.  Redbook audio is just simply there; take it as is or leave it.  It makes for a dull, flat audio experience whereas what Nintendo tends to do is more vibrant and alive.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Smadte on July 05, 2003, 12:57:10 PM

Thing is, the samples are OLD, OLD technology. That's the only problem I have. They could do some awsome stuff with THIS!! Now THAT is almost indistinguishable. Listen to the first demo and tell me you can't imagine an AWSOME battle between Ganon and Link!

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 05, 2003, 02:25:27 PM

Well, like they said, it doesn't change, for one thing.  Second, I see what you're getting at, but this simply isn't Zelda music.  This is more fit for Lord of the Rings or Final Fantasy.  Zelda has very unique and interesting music, and it fits perfectly with what the game is like.  That part of Zelda, the part that seperates it from other games that may initially look like it, is very obvious.  I'm doing the Nintendo Gallery, and I've filled up the entire Monster room with all of the enemy statues.  Never before have I seen a more colorful cast of enemies in a game, and they are also very unique; no generic enemies at all, like Chimeras or Werewolves.  The music reflects that.

But that was cool music.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Smadte on July 05, 2003, 03:41:49 PM

I'm not saying the music in general, just the quality of the samples used. Imagine if Kondo got a hold of some samples like that!

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 05, 2003, 05:58:35 PM

Remember Mike Roch who used to frequent the boards? Now he had some amazingly good synthesized stuff he made- this guy was incredible. I don't think I've seen him since PGC switched boards, but I have all his stuff burned onto a CD so I can listen to it whenever I want to, which is quite often.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Smadte on July 05, 2003, 10:09:09 PM

It's funny you mentioned Mike Rhoch because I happen to be Mike Rhoch with a different user name! But, my REAL name, thank god, is not Mike Rhoch. It's Nigel Simmons. I don't frequent these boards much anymore, but I do come around once in a while.  I wouldn't say my stuff is amazing, and most of it is pretty dang old. I haven't had a keyboard set up to my comp. for a loooong time. I have done some stuff, though, by inserting notes one by one with a mouse (it's insane). It's cool to know someone still listens to my stuff! I've got some new songs (mostly works in progresses, most you've already heard) on my little pathetic page: http://www.nigel.has.it  

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 05, 2003, 11:38:10 PM

You know?  I think I have a few remixes by you on my playlist...  I can't remember what the titles are, but I recognize your name, and I am sure that you are an OC Remix person.    I think I got them from the WIP section, but I am not sure.

Regardless, I still say that I don't hear any of the ugliness that musicians notice.  It sounds good to me, and I fail to see the problem.

Anyways, it's good to have you around regardless.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 06, 2003, 07:38:30 AM

I knew you didn't leave us, man. And don't go playing modest on us man-  your stuff is awesome. I've also got a folder on my computer with all your pieces in it. In fact I'm listening to it right now. Your music always has this sense of relaxed urgency, if that makes sense.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 06, 2003, 07:51:35 AM

Oh, I see.  In that case, yes, that is very good quality music

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 08, 2003, 11:13:48 PM

Just wanted to say that I remembered the piece that you wrote that frequently found it's way into my playlist.  It would be none other than Melancholy Apocalypse, which was a very fine remix of the last hour of Majora's Mask.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 09, 2003, 04:42:25 AM

Melancholy Apocalypse, eh? Sounds like one I don't have- where'd you find it, ninja? OC Remix?  

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 09, 2003, 06:09:32 PM

Well, it seems that I got it fairly recently (as in the last 3 months), and it also seems that I got it from the WIP section at OC ReMix.  It's track 111 in my playlist, amongst some other of my favorite WIPs.  I searched all over the place on the OC Remix forums, but I couldn't even find the thread I found it in.  Sorry dude, maybe you will have better luck than me.  :\

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 10, 2003, 06:35:17 AM

Ba, I could only find Smadte's Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts remix- no Majora's Mask music by him. I'll get it somehow, though!

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Smadte on July 15, 2003, 04:40:39 PM

Unfortunately, Melancholy Apocalypse was rejected from OC Remix just recently. You can get it here, though: http://www.angelfire.com/film/nigelsimmons/MelancholyApocalypse.mp3

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 15, 2003, 04:49:03 PM

Magnificent- I've always loved the quiet acceptance of the inevitable the ending theme in MM invoked, and your remix has lost none of that.

BTW, that's a pretty creepy picture you have on your front page (the one with the floating eyeballs). That and "weird" is spelt "w-e-i-r-d", not "w-i-e-r-d", like you have on your site. Just thought you might like to know- I don't even know why we have an I befre E rule if we don't even follow it.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 16, 2003, 05:30:18 AM

I didn't want to start a new thread, so I'll just post here.  How do you make a CD from a videogames' soundtrack.  I've always wanted music from my favorite games on a CD, but I have no idea how.  Obviously you guys do, so I figure I'll ask.  No such thing as a dumb question I always say.  

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 16, 2003, 05:36:27 AM

I have a bunch of Metroid Prime and Zelda (both WW and OoT) on an MP3 CD, but I just downloaded those off of Kazaa.  You can try that, I suppose, though your selection maybe be somewhat limited.  I found all the songs I wanted, though, and more.

Title: RE: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 16, 2003, 05:49:52 AM

KnowsNothing, there are several different methods that produce varying results.

1)  The first way is probably the best way, and I believe is the way that most OSTs are made.  In some cases, this method will exceed the quality of the OST if the developer is lazy.  (Square)  What you do is get the soundtrack for the game in a custom format for the system of the game you want to rip.  (NES = NSF, SNES = SPC, PSX = PSF, PS2 = PSF2, Genesis = GYM, etc.)  Popular game soundtracks can be found in various places that I hesitate to mention, but if you tell me what games you want, I can probably find links for you.  This option is not available for all games though, and N64 games haven't yet developed this ability.  It's still pretty new on PSX and PS2 as well, so only a few games have the soundtracks ripped in this fashion.  Anyways, once you have the sound clip playing in winamp, you can use the output to file option to record to wave files of whatever quality you like.  These can be burned on a CD in professional quality, giving you a nearly perfect replication of the original music.

2.  The second way is simply to plug your console's audio out into your computer's line-in port, open up the Windows Sound Recorder, and hit record.  This will usually give you an analog recording (depending on your hardware), and the quality likely isn't the best, but it's definately passable, and almost at the regular MP3 quality.  The trick is getting to a place where the music plays and nothing else does.  Once you have WAV files of all the music you want, throw in a blank CD and burn away.  I have several tracks of Eternal Darkness music created in this way.

3.  The last way is to get MP3s from, or buy the official OST.  Sometimes, such as the case of Eternal Darkness or Killer Instinct, the developers will include extras on the CD that make it very worth your while.  Given that the tracks are in MP3 format if downloaded, and not a WAV, the quality will usually be lacking, but it's definately passable.  The official CDs are well worth your money if you have the money.  Sometimes, the developers will even include a soundtrack CD with the game, as is the case with Killer Instinct, and Silent Hill 3.

EDIT:  Just thought I would mention that most of the VG tracks in my playlist that you see are created by means of option #1.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 16, 2003, 06:13:07 AM

Thanks for the speedy response.  I will likely go with #2 becasue honestly, I don't know what you're talking about in the first method.  An explanation would be nice, but don't feel that you have to because latley, you've helped me alot.(Morrowind)

Title: RE: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 16, 2003, 06:50:44 AM

Bah.  I just got booted from an AA server because I shot a dickhead on my team in the back.  Ah well.  What can you do.

Anyways, method #1 isn't that hard.  just go here and download the soundtrack to any game that you want the soundtrack for.  After that, go here and download the SNESAmp SPC plugin for Winamp.  You can then play SPC files in Winamp.

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 16, 2003, 09:36:28 AM

You shot one of your fellow alcoholics in the back? You're more messed up than I thought, Ninja.

Title: RE: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 16, 2003, 02:11:16 PM

lol.  I suppose around here I should type the full word...  In America's Army...  Well basically, I was laying some covering fire down on a popular hiding spot for the defense campers.  I was lying down in a prone supported position firing away with my M16.  One of my moronic teammates jumps in front of me while I was firing off a burst, and I shot him twice in the leg.  A second later he calls me an idiot.  This really pissed me off, as he had killed me the round earlier with a frag grenade when I had ran up front without reporting in, and I apologized to him for not reporting in after the match was over.  I responded to that by standing up and finishing off the job I had started.

He then started a vote to kick me, and people noticed that I had shot him quite deliberately.  I got kicked quite easily.  But at least I had the pleasure of capping him.    The thing about me is that I don't play the game to raise my honor (score).  I play the game to have fun.  If I happen to REALLY not like someone, I won't hesitate to shoot him if he deserves it.  It doesn't happen very often, about maybe once every 7 hours of game time, but it does happen when someone really pisses me off.

Now I am going to go to the liquor store and buy some Sake.  You have gotten me quite thirsty.  

Title: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 16, 2003, 03:01:34 PM

Sounds like a soap opera there in America's Army- I'd download the game but my computer's a piece of crap. In any case, us underagers gotta do coke, errr, I mean drink Coke.

Title: RE: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Grey Ninja on July 16, 2003, 03:35:09 PM

lol... it does get pretty nasty from time to time.  I usually get someone trying to votekick me when I jump in front of the 203 operator at the start of the round to keep him from getting cheap kills by firing on the defense team's spawn point.

The thing is that the game has many different philosophies to it, making it seem like a soap opera at times.   There are basically 3 types of people:

1)  Fragrate means everything.  These people are out for themselves.  They will do whatever it takes to up their fragrate, including 203 spamming (learning precise spots to aim to rain explosives down on specific enemy spots), spawn shots (same as above, but in the first few seconds of starting, yielding easy kills), cheating in some cases, and camping in the back where it's safe, while teammates do the dying.  People in this group will usually be cowards, and poor shots when not doing specific practiced shots.

2)  Integrity means everything.  This is the group I fit into.  If it costs me my life and if I lose the round, I will never stoop to 203 spamming, or anything dishonorable.  I fight by the samurai code.  People in this group tend to be very skilled, as they try to fight on an even ground, requiring quick reflexes, and accurate shooting.  Extremists in this group will sometimes jump in front of their teammates at the start of the match to prevent them from getting cheap kills by use of spawn shots.

3)  Hardcore Players.  You've met them in Counterstrike.  They are the ones who go around calling everyone and everything n00bs in an attempt to show how superior they are.  In reality, everyone just wishes they would shut the f*ck up.

Title: RE: This is why I like synthesized music.
Post by: Gamefreak on July 18, 2003, 11:13:48 PM

Who says Nintendo only uses synthesized music? It uses whatever it needs to in that particular game. For example, while Metroid and Zelda have dynamic music synthesized using MuseX, Smash Bros and Eternal Darkness have good old orchestrated music...and it's aaaall good, homeys....