Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Stogi on August 01, 2013, 11:22:57 PM
Title: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Stogi on August 01, 2013, 11:22:57 PM
The Wii U is selling terribly mostly due to a lack of (compelling) software. Nintendo realizes this, as do their fans. But is there a silver lining to this debacle?
Nintendo is no doubt making all of our favorite franchises for the Wii U; Zelda, Mario, DK, and Metriod will all be on the console at some point. I for one would easily purchase a Wii U to play the next iteration of Zelda, even if the Wii U turns out to be a failure and forever lacks proper support. What can I say? I love Zelda.
But most people aren't like me. Most people won't buy a system for one game.....or will they?
Is the lack of sales the push Nintendo needs to release other games we don't expect? Is the lack of sales the push Nintendo needs to release games the entire industry has always wanted? Is the lack of sales the push Nintendo needs to finally be drastic?
Sales will surely pick up this half of the year with Pikmin, Wonderful 101, Mario World and WiiFit, but an objective look at the situation will tell you it may not be enough.
Nintendo has the greatest backlog of IP's that they could use to stir interest dramatically, but there is only one IP that would make everyone, excuse my french, "Shut the **** up." And that's Pokemon. A fully realized Pokemon with online tournaments and clans.
I feel like Nintendo has been holding onto this ace card for a long time for two reasons: technical limitations and they've been a highly successful company. There was never an actual need to make this kind of game as well as the infrastructure to do so. But now, those two reasons are colliding.
The optimist in me believes they are remaking Wind Waker not only because it is still one of the most beautiful games ever created, but that graphic style may be used again at some point. And what game would look fantastic cell-shaded? Pokemon.
Now I may be wrong (and I probably am), but Nintendo really has to do something unexpected to become relevant again. Making a console with all the usuals and a few fantastic new IPs maybe enough for me and those like me, but not to the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Adrock on August 01, 2013, 11:47:06 PM
Nintendo can do all those things without sales being in the gutter.
Also, I disagree with your assertion that only Pokemon would get people to STFU. Nintendo should reboot Ice Climbers as an gritty, arctic survival horror title. Plot twist: Popo gets raped and murdered halfway through and the rest of the game becomes a revenge story where Nana goes apeshit on everything. Hear that? Stunned silence.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Soren on August 02, 2013, 12:37:21 AM
Also, I disagree with your assertion that only Pokemon would get people to STFU. Nintendo should reboot Ice Climbers as an gritty, arctic survival horror title. Plot twist: Popo gets raped and murdered halfway through and the rest of the game becomes a revenge story where Nana goes apeshit on everything. Hear that? Stunned silence.
Day 1.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 02, 2013, 12:42:36 AM
Nintendo can do all those things without sales being in the gutter.
But they won't unless sales are in the gutter, as evidenced by just about every other franchise they have that's stayed essentially the same for decades.
But hey, we've only been waiting for a real Pokemon console RPG for decades. I'm sure Nintendo will get riiiiiight on that any day now while making the same Pokemon handheld game since the original Game Boy game has been a license to print money.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: azeke on August 02, 2013, 12:48:53 AM
But they won't unless sales are in the gutter, as evidenced by just about every other franchise they have that's stayed essentially the same for decades.
Metroid and Paper Mario changed. A lot. :D
But the thread is kinda pointless. It read like: "nintendo is doing bad! but it's good! "what doesn't kill you" and stuff!".
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Stogi on August 02, 2013, 01:09:09 AM
Well most people feel that Nintendo simply needs to bring out the big IPs but I doubt that's enough especially with the emergence of their competitors. Some people also feel that Nintendo has yet to use their Gamepad in any thoughtful way despite offscreen gameplay. It's time to kill two birds with one stone and Pokemon could do that. As broodwars mentions it prints money on handhelds, so why not recreate that environment on their consoles?
Now like I said, Nintendo has a plethora of games to choose from, some obscure and some not, but I feel that nothing would hit harder than Pokemon. Hell, just a gameplay trailer would set E3 ablaze.
But of course, Nintendo would have to make it just right or at least just good enough to be truly exciting.
It's their ace up their sleeve and theirs no better time to play it.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Ymeegod on August 02, 2013, 01:11:36 AM
Nintendo's not known to throw money around even if it means failure for the WII U. At this point in time it's going became the next DC--which I loved--dead before it even begins.
There's little reason to try to buy developer support at this time, better off just riding it out and try again with the next console (early 2016 is my guess).
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: ShyGuy on August 02, 2013, 01:14:43 AM
Don't mess with success.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: lolmonade on August 02, 2013, 08:52:55 AM
Nintendo may start attempting more unique experience games, but E3 made it pretty clear that they're banking heavily on the iterative experiences to pull the Wii U around for the remainder of 2013 and 2014. I don't think we'll see many chances taken until at least a few more years, regardless of how well/poorly the system is doing.
Also, I never see a full-fledged Pokemon game coming to consoles. There's a reason they've limited them to handhelds, and I think the Internet overstates how successful a game like this would actually be.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Ceric on August 02, 2013, 09:14:55 AM
... Also, I never see a full-fledged Pokemon game coming to consoles. There's a reason they've limited them to handhelds, and I think the Internet overstates how successful a game like this would actually be.
"Till all are one" -Optimus Prime
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Ian Sane on August 02, 2013, 01:54:40 PM
I want Nintendo cosnoles to do as well as they deserve. I felt the Cube sold worse than it should have and that was frustrating. It had some flaws but was overall a pretty decent system (or at least had that potential in the beginning) but was ignored from the start and never really got a fair shake. The Wii on the other hand was a terrible product that caught on as a fad. Since one underachieved and one overachieved I feel that Nintendo didn't learn the right lessons. Overachieving is especially bad because it just encourages bad habits. The Wii U is Nintendo assuming that since the Wii was such a success they did everything right and that repeating that approach, warts and all, will work again. It isn't. That's good because while truly brilliant people can learn from others' mistakes or anticipate and correct mistakes before they happen, a lot of us need to learn directly from the aftermath of our mistakes. Nintendo needs to suffer to learn, they need to lose money directly because of their own incompetence. If it inspires positive change then it's for the best for us fans.
If they were a truly brilliant company it wouldn't need to come to this but after over ten years without appearing to have learned from the mistakes of the N64, hitting rock bottom seems to be necessary. Of course they could also hit rock bottom and never bounce back.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: lolmonade on August 02, 2013, 03:31:28 PM
... Also, I never see a full-fledged Pokemon game coming to consoles. There's a reason they've limited them to handhelds, and I think the Internet overstates how successful a game like this would actually be.
"Till all are one" -Optimus Prime
I'm sure someone who has seen what you're referencing would understand the point you're trying to make, but I'm unaware of the context of that quote. Care to enlighten me?
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 03, 2013, 03:28:25 AM
A smart move for Nintendo would be if they scoured the gaming landscape for fledgling developers/publishes with games that they can not afford to make and offer to fund and publish the games for them as Wii U exclusives. This is a similar manner to what Nintendo did with SEGA and Platnium to get Bayonetta 2 as a Wii U exclusive.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: shingi_70 on August 03, 2013, 10:54:38 AM
It will never happen but I'd love to see a Zelda more inspired by stuff like Skyrim/Amular. Thankfully X seems to fill that void. (oddly enough it means sony is the only company without a strong first party RPG)
I think Nintendo needs to do much more to get its software development up and do more deals like Sonic Lost World and the Platinum Games deals. If shadow of the eternals doesn't get funded (it won't) than publish the game using the Eternal Darkness IP.
Nintendo also needs to be more proactive when it comes to indies. They have been doing great work but they should openly publicize it more. Sony has gotten tons of loving for spotlighting indies and their PR marketing machine hit critical mass after the indie section at E3. Microsoft seems to be planning similar things with indies being apart of their gamescom conference.
Also I'd say publish Dragon Quest X but in light of the other announced and rumored MMO's i'm not sure if its worth it. (well it would be cool for Nintendo only gamers seeing as the Wii U won't get any other MMO this gen)
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on August 03, 2013, 11:08:23 AM
I hate to be all doom and gloom, and perhaps I'm being premature, but I feel like Nintendo has already lost this generation (at least in terms of mindshare and influence). That's not to say that the Wii U won't be profitable for the company; as components get cheaper Nintendo will find a way to make profit on hardware sales, and provided Nintendo can start putting out games on a regular basis I also expect the Wii U to have a decent software tie ratio (even if third party games constitute very little of that overall pie). My understanding is also that Nintendo has enough liquid assets to float themselves for the whole of this next generation if needs be.
My concern, however, is that if sales for Wii u don't pick up soon then the console might be relegated to the margins, or left in the same 'Nintendo ghetto' that the Gamecube found itself. Which is not what I want. I want the Wii U to be a lively and exciting platform. I want it to be fully supported by third parties. I want Nintendo to feel comfortable enough to try new things, and not to rely on established formulas (Pikmin 3, DKCR: TF, Mario Kart 8, Super Mario 3D World - all these games look fine, but they don't give me the urge to run out and buy a Wii U because they're all quite similar to games I've played before).
Perhaps Stogi's conjecture is correct, and these poor sales figures will prompt Nintendo to release more games, but the recent financial results might also prompt an already very conservative Nintendo to be even more cautious. Which for me would be a serious turn off. As someone who has not yet been convinced to buy a Wii U, what I want to see from Nintendo more than anything is for the company to show some ambition. Honestly? I don't want to hear Iwata apologising (again) for having a lacklustre launch line-up. What I want from Nintendo is for the company to show me something interesting.
That's not me 'wanting' in the stereotypical entitled gamer sense. I really am waiting for a reason to buy a Wii U. All I need is a reason.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 03, 2013, 11:27:12 AM
Nintendo lost this generation a long time ago, when they decided to use the hardware they did. They knew then, or at least should have known, that the wouldn't have the market or mind share Sony/Microsoft would.
Nintendo is more profitable this way. Sony/MS are prepared to lose millions for a few years in order to have the highest end tech in their hardware. Nintendo has the money to do it that way, but they'd much rather make money in third place than lose it in first.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: shingi_70 on August 03, 2013, 12:29:17 PM
Nintendo lost this generation a long time ago, when they decided to use the hardware they did. They knew then, or at least should have known, that the wouldn't have the market or mind share Sony/Microsoft would.
Nintendo is more profitable this way. Sony/MS are prepared to lose millions for a few years in order to have the highest end tech in their hardware. Nintendo has the money to do it that way, but they'd much rather make money in third place than lose it in first.
Nintendo has the money to do it, but they can't. Sony and Microsoft has other forms of income that allow them to do so. Nintendo has enough money to go uber powerful, but they have greater risk since video games are they're only real source of income.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Evan_B on August 03, 2013, 01:24:53 PM
If the Wii U ends up being another Gamecube, I'm perfectly fine with that. The games they've shown on the horizon are already interesting enough to me, so if they keep the console alive and give it unique play titles, I'll be a-okay with that.
Nintendo does need to learn some lessons, and maybe after the success of the Wii, a bit of an upset with Wii U might be a nice wake up call for them. Then again, they do have an extremely successful handheld on the market right now too.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: nickmitch on August 03, 2013, 01:52:30 PM
I still say Nintendo should make my dream game: a cel-shaded, action game based on the Pokemon Adventures Manga. You follow Red through the story, using his team, and maybe throw in Blue and Green as unlockable characters with their own stories. Just add in a couple of filler episodes from the cartoon to pad out the game a bit and BOOM. Best game ever.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 03, 2013, 02:09:24 PM
I still find it stupid that Nintendo will allow Grand Theft Auto V to not be on the Wii U. We all know Nintendo's stance on buying support but having that game on the Wii U would send the message that Nintendo is serious about dealing with third parties companies. That Devil's Third and Shadow of the Eternals would make good exclusives to the Wii U.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 02:25:17 PM
Yes, because its Nintendo's fault GTAV won't be on Wii U.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: nickmitch on August 03, 2013, 02:31:39 PM
That almost begs the question of whether or not Rockstar would've ported the game had the Wii U been more like the other consoles.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 03, 2013, 02:59:28 PM
I still find it stupid that Nintendo will allow Grand Theft Auto V to not be on the Wii U. We all know Nintendo's stance on buying support but having that game on the Wii U would send the message that Nintendo is serious about dealing with third parties companies. That Devil's Third and Shadow of the Eternals would make good exclusives to the Wii U.
You mean in the same way GTA: Chinatown Wars brought all kinds of of major Western third party support to the DS and 3DS?
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: MagicCow64 on August 03, 2013, 03:45:26 PM
regardless of what happens this holiday season, the wii u will never claim the hearts and minds of the mainstream game press. they will continue to treat it like the zune no matter what happens and this will continue to have its own feedbaack cycle effects in the west. and i really doubt there is anything nintendo can do about it. just compare the wii u to the vita in terms of coverage. the vita y actually deserves the treatment the wii u is getting, but is treated with kid gloves or politely ignored. i checked gamespot the other day and there was a wii u tanking article followed shortly by an article about how maybe bioshock will someday be on the vita, oh boy
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 03, 2013, 05:57:04 PM
The Vita doesn't deserve the treatment the Wii U is getting. It's not doing that poorly in sales and has a better software lineup than the Wii U does.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: pokepal148 on August 03, 2013, 06:43:07 PM
The Vita doesn't deserve the treatment the Wii U is getting. It's not doing that poorly in sales and has a better software lineup than the Wii U does.
Only in Japan but in the West the Vita is selling worse and its upcoming lineup is a disaster. Nintendo at least has their big hitters coming this Fall, while Sony isn't even trying to help the Vita out. Outside of some niche Japanese games, Vita has nothing to boast sales in the West and will probably be dropped from most stores by the end of 2014.
The Wii U will at least have a future worldwide because of Nintendo's own software, while the Vita is looking to be Japan only after next year.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 08:18:15 PM
Did you just call Persona 4 a niche Japanese game?
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 03, 2013, 08:21:40 PM
The Wii U certainly has a much stronger rest of the year than the Vita does, although the Wii U lineup the rest of the year could at least go toe to toe with most other platforms in that span. But the Vita's not even close to going Japan-only.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 08:24:03 PM
Did you just call Persona 4 a niche Japanese game?
It's pretty much the definition of a niche Japanese game (like Call of Duty is for FPS).
Explain.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 08:32:30 PM
It's niche, which I don't think even most fans of the game would dispute. It's Japanese. Therefore it's a niche Japanese game.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 08:42:44 PM
Go look up what the sales are for each Persona 3 and 4 title and tell me if you still think it's niche. Shin Megami Tensei is one of the big three: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and SMT.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Bizzy_Fatso on August 03, 2013, 08:45:22 PM
Only in Japan but in the West the Vita is selling worse and its upcoming lineup is a disaster. Nintendo at least has their big hitters coming this Fall, while Sony isn't even trying to help the Vita out. Outside of some niche Japanese games, Vita has nothing to boast sales in the West and will probably be dropped from most stores by the end of 2014.
The Wii U will at least have a future worldwide because of Nintendo's own software, while the Vita is looking to be Japan only after next year.
If the PS4 is a big success (and all signs point to it doing well), and they cut the Vita's price (which seems all but inevitable), then the remote play feature could be a big boon to Vita sales.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 03, 2013, 08:46:23 PM
It depends on your definition of niche. By general gaming standards, maybe, but as far as JRPGs go the Persona games are far from niche. You'd be hard pressed to find a more popular entry in that genre in recent years.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 08:52:35 PM
J.P. is right. ESPECIALLY outside of Japan, where the Shin Megami Tensei series is not a big series (P4 was the first one to have any significant sales).
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 03, 2013, 09:00:07 PM
Only in Japan but in the West the Vita is selling worse and its upcoming lineup is a disaster. Nintendo at least has their big hitters coming this Fall, while Sony isn't even trying to help the Vita out. Outside of some niche Japanese games, Vita has nothing to boast sales in the West and will probably be dropped from most stores by the end of 2014.
I'll give you that Dragon's Crown could potentially be perceived as "niche", but Killzone Mercenary is an FPS, the #1 genre in North America. I personally think the game's going to bomb released up against Grand Theft Auto 4, but it's certainly not some "niche Japanese game." There's also what's likely to be the superior version of Rayman Legends (based on the best version of Origins being on Vita) coming out that same month on Vita, along with Tearaway in November, which was getting very positive buzz at E3.
Besides, Nintendo would kill for the Wii U to have the Vita's software attach rate, which IIRC Sony said was somewhere around 10 games per Vita owner.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 09:00:34 PM
J.P. is right. ESPECIALLY outside of Japan, where the Shin Megami Tensei series is not a big series (P4 was the first one to have any significant sales).
Wrong. Within the JRPG scene (which is LARGE), the SMT series and specifically Persona is fucking BIG. They are not niche. Like I said before, SMT is the third largest JRPG series ever, in terms of sales and number of games.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 09:06:44 PM
JRPG is only big in Japan and it has been that way for years now. Outside of Japan the series got very little attention until P4. Even in Japan, it's moderately successful. Maybe outside of Japan it will be bigger not, but the series was pretty much ignored until P4.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 09:09:49 PM
Man, you are ridiculous. Only you would make a claim like JRPG's not being big outside of Japan.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 09:15:29 PM
Have you actually looked at sales charts? JRPGs have not been big outside of Japan for at least 5 years. I'm being objective, they have not had much success in a long time.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 03, 2013, 09:22:24 PM
Have you actually looked at sales charts? JRPGs have not been big outside of Japan for at least 5 years. I'm being objective, they have not had much success in a long time.
How do both FF 13 games selling millions equate to "not much success." Sure, not CoD numbers, but few games reach those heights.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 03, 2013, 09:26:38 PM
The only games that have made me remotely interested in the Vita are Dragon's Crown, Killzone: Mercenary, and the PS One classics. If it were not for these games, or if they were availalbe on the 3DS, then the Vita would be useless to me. As for the Wii U, I am interested in every game for it at this point. I just wish there were more third party titles for the Wii U.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 03, 2013, 09:30:14 PM
The only games that have made me remotely interested in the Vita are Dragon's Crown, Killzone: Mercenary, and the PS One classics. If it were not for these games, or if they were availalbe on the 3DS, then the Vita would be useless to me.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if that's all you see of value I doubt you've really looked at the Vita's library, especially on the digital side.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 09:31:39 PM
Did I say NO JRPG's have been big? I did not, but the genre as a whole has lost a lot of significance and sales in the last 5 years or so, especially outside of Japan.
And i've looked at the PS Vita's library, I am not too impressed. Def not enough to justify a $250 pricetag.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 03, 2013, 09:33:19 PM
Have you actually looked at sales charts? JRPGs have not been big outside of Japan for at least 5 years. I'm being objective, they have not had much success in a long time.
How do both FF 13 games selling millions equate to "not much success." Sure, not CoD numbers, but few games reach those heights.
The Final Fantasy name has garnered enough fandom to justify sales of that magnitude.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 03, 2013, 09:38:43 PM
The only games that have made me remotely interested in the Vita are Dragon's Crown, Killzone: Mercenary, and the PS One classics. If it were not for these games, or if they were availalbe on the 3DS, then the Vita would be useless to me.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if that's all you see of value I doubt you've really looked at the Vita's library, especially on the digital side.
There is nothing about the Vita that justifies paying full price for it. The Wii U is just the opposite.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 09:41:53 PM
The only games that have made me remotely interested in the Vita are Dragon's Crown, Killzone: Mercenary, and the PS One classics. If it were not for these games, or if they were availalbe on the 3DS, then the Vita would be useless to me.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if that's all you see of value I doubt you've really looked at the Vita's library, especially on the digital side.
There is nothing about the Vita that justifies paying full price for it. The Wii U is just the opposite.
Should I put that quote in the fanboy thread?
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 03, 2013, 09:43:23 PM
The only games that have made me remotely interested in the Vita are Dragon's Crown, Killzone: Mercenary, and the PS One classics. If it were not for these games, or if they were availalbe on the 3DS, then the Vita would be useless to me.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if that's all you see of value I doubt you've really looked at the Vita's library, especially on the digital side.
There is nothing about the Vita that justifies paying full price for it. The Wii U is just the opposite.
Whatever, man. I've gotten way more usage out of my Vita in the past year than I likely ever will my Wii U. My Vita justified its cost a long time ago. I'm still waiting for the Wii U to even BEGIN to prove its worth, especially as a multi-console owner.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 03, 2013, 09:45:08 PM
The only games that have made me remotely interested in the Vita are Dragon's Crown, Killzone: Mercenary, and the PS One classics. If it were not for these games, or if they were availalbe on the 3DS, then the Vita would be useless to me.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if that's all you see of value I doubt you've really looked at the Vita's library, especially on the digital side.
There is nothing about the Vita that justifies paying full price for it. The Wii U is just the opposite.
Should I put that quote in the fanboy thread?
Just put his entire account in that thread and be done with it. :P
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Adrock on August 03, 2013, 09:50:13 PM
I cannot wait for Dragon's Crown. I'm so glad it's coming to PS3 because I'd seriously consider a Vita (at some point, not for $250) just for the game. I really wish it was coming to Wii U as I prefer the Pro Controller, but I'm happy enough just having access to the game without having to buy new hardware.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 09:53:28 PM
Me neither. I'm not sure which version I'd get though. I gotta decide between the larger player pool on the PS3 or the ability to take it anywhere with the Vita?
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 03, 2013, 10:20:36 PM
Persona 4 is the best selling Persona in America and that only did over 110k. So yes, Persona 4 is a niche Japanese game since selling over 100k is the very definition of the word niche.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 10:23:54 PM
since selling over 100k is the very definition of the word niche.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/niche
Wasn't aware that 100k game sales was the "very definition" of niche.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 10:26:41 PM
In terms of video games, it is. Especially when you (falsely) claim that JRPG's are "huge" outside of Japan. And considering Final Fantasy XIII (both versions) sold well over 2 million in North America, 100K is nothing. 100K is very low in video games, and that is the BEST selling entry in the series (that means every other entry did even worse). I have no doubt it made Atlus money since they specialize in profiting from game with low sales numbers, but it's still niche.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 03, 2013, 10:43:23 PM
Me neither. I'm not sure which version I'd get though. I gotta decide between the larger player pool on the PS3 or the ability to take it anywhere with the Vita?
Something both you and Adrock should consider in deciding between the two versions: Dragon's Crown was originally designed as a Vita game, and as such there are frequent spots during the game where you need to tap a background object to release secrets or tap a treasure chest to open it. On the Vita, this is just a tap of the touch screen. On the PS3, you have to use the right analog stick to steer a cursor over the objects and click on them. Most reviewers seem to think this gives the clear nod to the Vita version since the two are pretty much the same game.
On the downside, there's no cross-play between the two versions, though there is cross-save. Obviously, the platform with the bigger online player pool will be the PS3. Personally, my Vita's never handled online play well, but as Muramasa played exceptionally well on the Vita I went with that version. I'm not going to be able to play online and I've accepted that, but the online co-op could be a big issue for you.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 10:45:43 PM
In terms of video games, it is. Especially when you (falsely) claim that JRPG's are "huge" outside of Japan. And considering Final Fantasy XIII (both versions) sold well over 2 million in North America, 100K is nothing. 100K is very low in video games, and that is the BEST selling entry in the series (that means every other entry did even worse). I have no doubt it made Atlus money since they specialize in profiting from game with low sales numbers, but it's still niche.
Post the numbers for Persona 4 Golden and then you can speak.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 10:46:23 PM
Me neither. I'm not sure which version I'd get though. I gotta decide between the larger player pool on the PS3 or the ability to take it anywhere with the Vita?
Something both you and Adrock should consider in deciding between the two versions: Dragon's Crown was originally designed as a Vita game, and as such there are frequent spots during the game where you need to tap a background object to release secrets or tap a treasure chest to open it. On the Vita, this is just a tap of the touch screen. On the PS3, you have to use the right analog stick to steer a cursor over the objects and click on them. Most reviewers seem to think this gives the clear nod to the Vita version since the two are pretty much the same game.
On the downside, there's no cross-play between the two versions, though there is cross-save. Obviously, the platform with the bigger online player pool will be the PS3. Personally, my Vita's never handled online play well, but as Muramasa played exceptionally well on the Vita I went with that version. I'm not going to be able to play online and I've accepted that, but the online co-op could be a big issue for you.
Damn. I really wish this had been cross-buy.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 03, 2013, 10:50:36 PM
Me neither. I'm not sure which version I'd get though. I gotta decide between the larger player pool on the PS3 or the ability to take it anywhere with the Vita?
Something both you and Adrock should consider in deciding between the two versions: Dragon's Crown was originally designed as a Vita game, and as such there are frequent spots during the game where you need to tap a background object to release secrets or tap a treasure chest to open it. On the Vita, this is just a tap of the touch screen. On the PS3, you have to use the right analog stick to steer a cursor over the objects and click on them. Most reviewers seem to think this gives the clear nod to the Vita version since the two are pretty much the same game.
On the downside, there's no cross-play between the two versions, though there is cross-save. Obviously, the platform with the bigger online player pool will be the PS3. Personally, my Vita's never handled online play well, but as Muramasa played exceptionally well on the Vita I went with that version. I'm not going to be able to play online and I've accepted that, but the online co-op could be a big issue for you.
Damn. I really wish this had been cross-buy.
Yeah, so do I.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 10:51:55 PM
In terms of video games, it is. Especially when you (falsely) claim that JRPG's are "huge" outside of Japan. And considering Final Fantasy XIII (both versions) sold well over 2 million in North America, 100K is nothing. 100K is very low in video games, and that is the BEST selling entry in the series (that means every other entry did even worse). I have no doubt it made Atlus money since they specialize in profiting from game with low sales numbers, but it's still niche.
Post the numbers for Persona 4 Golden and then you can speak.
Since the numbers we know show you are wrong, it seems like you would need to find numbers to prove that P4G is not niche like EVERY other game in the series. Even if you trust VG Chartz (which you shouldn't), it doesn't look very good as VG Chartz thinks the game has only sold 470K worlwide (with the majority of those being in Japan).
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 10:53:06 PM
I fail to see how 110k is niche. Sorry bro. I thought I made that clear? Bee tee dubs, you didn't do jack ****. That was Luigi.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 03, 2013, 10:55:23 PM
I'm about to ban everyone in this thread for stupid pointless semantic arguments. I know that's your specialty, TJ, but let's move past arguing over the definition of "niche."
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 03, 2013, 11:05:22 PM
I'm about to ban everyone in this thread for stupid pointless semantic arguments. I know that's your specialty, TJ, but let's move past arguing over the definition of "niche."
I have been discussing why the Wii U is better than the Vita.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 11:06:39 PM
LOL, I don't know when 100K became anything EXCEPT niche. Way to lower the bar. Oblivion, i'm done since you fail to see how niche sales are niche.
As fro Dragon's Crown, I don't see cross-play getting more people to buy a game. So I don't think they will lose any sales for it, but Vita hardware and software sell like horse dung covered in rotting corpses, so I don't see the Vita version doing that well at all.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 03, 2013, 11:14:43 PM
Cross-play has gotten me to buy games I was on the fence about. It's a huge plus for me, especially when the PS3 and Vita games interact.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 03, 2013, 11:16:03 PM
But if the game was not good enough for you to buy it, why would adding portability make a difference?
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Oblivion on August 03, 2013, 11:18:13 PM
I want cross buy because I can't decide which one I want, but the game isn't good enough to warrant paying $90.
Cross play isn't what broodwars and I were even talking about.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 03, 2013, 11:18:35 PM
Vita hardware and software sell like horse dung covered in rotting corpses, so I don't see the Vita version doing that well at all.
You'd be surprised. The overwhelming majority of Dragon's Crown pre-orders at my local GameStop are for the Vita version, & allegedly the Vita has a software attach rate of around 10 games per user. I personally own 8 physical retail games, something like 6-7 digital retail games, and probably around 15-20 digital download-only Vita titles. I'm certainly an outlier, but while we Vita owners are small in number we are a dedicated bunch. The thing is, we tend to buy our games digitally, which is ironic, really, considering the Vita's memory card issues. :P:
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Stogi on August 04, 2013, 07:05:37 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/raajuwl.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: lolmonade on August 04, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
The only games that have made me remotely interested in the Vita are Dragon's Crown, Killzone: Mercenary, and the PS One classics. If it were not for these games, or if they were availalbe on the 3DS, then the Vita would be useless to me.
You're entitled to your opinion, but if that's all you see of value I doubt you've really looked at the Vita's library, especially on the digital side.
There is nothing about the Vita that justifies paying full price for it. The Wii U is just the opposite.
Whatever, man. I've gotten way more usage out of my Vita in the past year than I likely ever will my Wii U. My Vita justified its cost a long time ago. I'm still waiting for the Wii U to even BEGIN to prove its worth, especially as a multi-console owner.
This bears repeating. Especially if you have a PS+ subscription, you've paid a high up-front cost for the Vita for a quick, expansive access to a variety of games, including Gravity Rush, Uncharted, & Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward.
I always think people hammering the Vita for having nothing worth buying for haven't even looked into it. I understand some people may just not have interest in the games they're offering, but the degree of Nintendo fans here hating on it to distract from Wii U's abysmal software releases as of late is a bit pathetic.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: broodwars on August 04, 2013, 09:19:55 PM
I think a lot of the Vita's library is stuff that you really just need to discover for yourself. For instance, I doubt anyone here has heard of DJ MAX Technika Tune, but it's one of my favorite games on the Vita. It's a Korean-developed K-pop rhythm music game, and if I hadn't bought the game on a whim I wouldn't have known how much I'd like it. The really good games on the Vita don't tend to be immediately obvious.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: pokepal148 on August 04, 2013, 09:27:37 PM
Well... i hammer at it because its such an easy target. in all honesty its a very strong platform(until you read the sales numbers :D (had to slip that one in there)) that i have a large amount of respect for.
At the same time however the problems its facing aren't that different from what the Wii U is currently facing. the biggest difference however is that Nintendo actually seems to give a rats corpse about the what happens to the system whereas Sony seems to be barely willing to pay for life support.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: lolmonade on August 04, 2013, 09:39:18 PM
Well... i hammer at it because its such an easy target. in all honesty its a very strong platform(until you read the sales numbers :D (had to slip that one in there)) that i have a large amount of respect for.
At the same time however the problems its facing aren't that different from what the Wii U is currently facing. the biggest difference however is that Nintendo actually seems to give a rats corpse about the what happens to the system whereas Sony seems to be barely willing to pay for life support.
I'm assuming Sony's expecting Vita's features with PS4 to boost the install base, and then for those people to find by owning them that there are actually pretty good games already available for the Vita.
I don't think anyone expects the Vita to do any better than the PSP, but that's not such a bad thing, as long as there's something worthwhile to play for the system.
Also keep in mind that I doubt Sony expected to topple Nintendo's handheld business from the start. Nintendo has had a stranglehold on the handheld market for some time now, so Sony's expectations should be for it to be a long fought battle to steal market share from them, or be happy with being a somewhat niche product in comparison.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 04, 2013, 11:29:39 PM
The PSP sold something like 60 million units worldwide; the only reason it's seen as a big failure is the DS sold almost three times that. Software sales numbers are hard to come by because so many people buy Vita games digitally (I own about 20 retail Vita games and all but one of them were digital purchases).
As you'll hear on this week's Connectivity, Neal and I made a pretty good case for the Vita, and I'd advise you not to mindlessly bash the system as a way of making the Wii U look less bad.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Khushrenada on August 06, 2013, 11:24:43 AM
, or be happy with being a somewhat niche product in comparison.
NO! We do not use that word anymore in this thread! How dare you, sir! Trying to stir up more trouble.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: shingi_70 on August 06, 2013, 01:45:12 PM
I remember hearing that most of the Vita's software purchases were Digital and that it has a small yet dedicated base that constantly buys software. Isn't that the main reasons why the GDC survey had it above both the 3DS and Wii U. I mean if I were making a Game I'd taget Vita before any Nintendo platform.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Khushrenada on August 06, 2013, 02:13:53 PM
This is now becoming a crossover of the handheld forum but I still find it surprising that the Vita would have a higher software adoption rate than the 3DS. If I don't include the free titles given early on and by the Ambassador program and just strictly any game I've bought with my own money, I have 8 retail titles and 8 digitally downloaded games. And yet there's a bunch more I could easily buy but have been putting off to finish up what I already own and keep up to date. (Over halfway there! Yay me!).
To me, I just think that would be a similar case with most 3DS owners but maybe not. I suppose it could be demographics. If parents are buying it for their kids, they don't have the income to be purchasing many games and usually if I see anyone playing a PSP (whatever version), they are late teens or young adult and chances are, they have more income available and ability to buy more games.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: the asylum on August 06, 2013, 11:06:24 PM
I'm actually a little scared by the lack of Wii U sales.
Well, not scared about the lack of sales, but rather, Nintendo's reaction to it.
The whole speech about "Give it time, we will show the people what an amazing machine the Wii U is!"
and then they snub E3
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: Adrock on August 06, 2013, 11:25:24 PM
I'm still not worried at all. This happens every time. People say Nintendo is finished or in trouble or whatever then Nintendo releases X or Y and those same people are the first to buy X and Y. Rinse and repeat.
The problem is simply that Nintendo shouldn't even let it get to that point. It's as if they enjoy being a perpetual underdog which is silliness. 2014 should have been their 2013 and we shouldn't even be having this conversation. Unfortunately, it isn't and we are having this conversation. Nintendo isn't in any danger; they're just walking when they should be running. I'd like to see a little more urgency from them, act like they want to win rather than just finish the race.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2013, 11:31:00 PM
Oh, Nintendo will be dropping X and Y alright! ;)
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: pokepal148 on August 06, 2013, 11:31:38 PM
I remember hearing that most of the Vita's software purchases were Digital and that it has a small yet dedicated base that constantly buys software. Isn't that the main reasons why the GDC survey had it above both the 3DS and Wii U. I mean if I were making a Game I'd taget Vita before any Nintendo platform.
I'm actually a little scared by the lack of Wii U sales.
Well, not scared about the lack of sales, but rather, Nintendo's reaction to it.
The whole speech about "Give it time, we will show the people what an amazing machine the Wii U is!"
and then they snub E3
They snubbed E3 by showing the newest installments in some of their biggest franchises for the Wii U at the event? They showed that this Fall they'll be publishing 6 games for the Wii U that are all from popular million seller series. And then off course they have the newest Mario Kart ready for Spring 2014.
You can't get a stronger reaction to try and improve poor Wii U sales then that. In comparison, the 3DS only had Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7 to improve its sales in Fall 2011 and then Kid Icarus: Uprising in Spring 2012. The Wii U is having a much stronger lineup then that system did.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2013, 12:15:45 AM
But it's also facing much stiffer competition than the 3DS has seen. As much as I love my Vita and all the games I have for it, it's not doing all that well for itself.
I do think the Wii U is headed in the right direction, but I'm not sure that it's moving that way quickly enough. At the end of the day, though, Nintendo has to go with the lineup they have. You can't make a AAA game in six months, and whatever they did put in the works when they saw the current state of the platform won't see the light of day until next year's E3 at the earliest.
I'm confident that Nintendo can turn things around if they can keep the system afloat long enough for the reinforcements to arrive.
Title: Re: Is the lack of Wii U sales exactly what Nintendo fans need?
Post by: toddra on August 16, 2013, 01:37:02 PM
I am not sure if Nintendo fans benefit from lack of sales, I mean low sales means fewer games. I also don't think it benefits Nintendo because then they get desperate and when they get desperate they get weird and turn more people off then they attract. I don't think Nintendo can ever win no matter how hard they try, if winning means selling the most hardware then okay yeah sure but if winning means getting every game on their console they deserve not ever gonna happen, 3rd party companies still dislike Nintendo for various reasons and nothing is going to change that, Wii was a massive success and nothing changed there. You basically have to really like Nintendo games at this point to keep buying their systems because if you also really like 3rd party games you will always get disappointed.
It is different with Wii U than 3DS because it doesn't have as much competition is a joke, besides Vita there is also all the Smartphones and Tablets they need to compete with. They might not be dedicated gaming platforms yet but they are certainly viable and growing. Give them a couple more years and they might get up to PC gaming levels. I got Sonic 4 on my phone and so far it's good enough for me. I wish I had a real gamepad sure but for quick sessions it's not too bad.
