Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Shorty McNostril on May 07, 2013, 11:01:42 PM
Title: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 07, 2013, 11:01:42 PM
Let me preface this by saying that I did not create this thread to bash Nintendo. I know I have been quite the pessimist over the last few months, but I created this thread in the hope of discussing the topic.
OK, Due to the way the Wii U has been handled, do we think that this will be Nintendo's last foray into the home console arena? Now I realize that the Wii U is only 6 months old. But still, those 6 months have been as bad as they could possibly be.
As far as I can tell, every single facet of the Wii U has been a disaster. - The console is underpowered. - The OS is slow and buggy. - Frequent game crashing. - Pretty much nothing standout in the way of games. - Been shunned by 3rd parties. - Hardly any information pre-launch. (Ordinary PR) - Missing DLC - Staple titles absent from the system.
And that is all in the first 6 months when it is still the newest (and presumably the most capable) system on the market. What do you think will happen when the PS4 and Durango hit the market?
Thinking about this has led me to think that Nintendo will end their production of consoles and stick to handhelds. In fact, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if Nintendo announce that the Wii U is done and they are proceeding only with handhelds. Nintendo are good at handhelds. It seems to be where their passion lies.
With the way things are going, do we even want Nintendo to continue producing consoles? I know I personally feel betrayed by them. Nintendo told us that the Wii U was their means of bringing back the core gamer. Well right now the Wii U (and Nintendo) are the laughing stock of the gaming community. They are the laughing stock of the very crowd they were trying to win back.
What do you all think? (again, bearing in mind we are only 6 months in.) Do you think things will improve? What do you think needs to happen for things to improve? Do you even want Nintendo to continue console development if things continue the way they have been?
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Adrock on May 07, 2013, 11:24:52 PM
Yes, I want Nintendo to keep making consoles. Fortunately, I doubt they're leaving the console market any time soon. They hit a rough patch, but it's looking to pick up in the second half of the year with some major releases. Sure, they should have been out sooner. Nothing to be done there.
Nintendo is great for the industry. I don't think people have really considered the impact of Nintendo leaving the console. Even though they get some things wrong, they keep Microsoft and Sony from getting complacent, just as they do for Nintendo.
On a personal level, I don't want Nintendo to leave the console market because I merely tolerate handheld gaming for the games I can't get on a console. I'm not bashing people who like handhelds or enjoy the portability. More power to you. I treat my handhelds like home consoles because I generally don't play videogames away from home. My 3DS only comes with me to work and on errands so I can earn play coins while I walk about.
Honestly, I can't see anything positive from Nintendo leaving the console market and going handheld only. They wouldn't go third party; they would just make handheld games. And F that noise. I suppose that means I would have to buy one less piece of hardware, but my TV would be practically pointless since my Nintendo console is what I use most with it.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: azeke on May 07, 2013, 11:26:05 PM
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: lolmonade on May 07, 2013, 11:46:00 PM
Will this be the last Nintendo console? Absolutely not. I can't think of any situation where Nintendo would consider bowing-out of consoles, especially considering they're nowhere near serious financial trouble.
A lousy launch lineup isn't outside the norm. I recall being underwhelmed with the Playstation 2 and 3's games, which prompted me to wait until the first price drop for both. It wasn't that long ago that people on this website we're praising the launch lineup as being one of the more robust ones they could recall. Has it been a trickle since the system launch? Yes, but I think anyone expecting a flood of stellar games in the first 6 months had unrealistic expectations.
3rd parties are staying away from the thing simply because there isn't a large enough install base to warrant the cost of porting their games. If the system was selling gangbusters, you would see more 3rd party support. Most businesses aren't this petty, revenge-fuelled thing that most articles portray them as, and if they expected to get a decent Return-on-investment for a Wii U version of their game, then they'd happily support it. That being said, I don't think it'll be a death knell to Nintendo's console business if they have to carry their console by themselves again.
Do you own a Wii U Pug, have you spent significant time with one?
1,000 times this. The system has great potential, and some of the issues you cited (slow OS, bugs) can be fixed and improved upon in software updates. The Playstation 3 is a great example of how much a console can improve via software updates, I have no reason to believe Nintendo can't continually improve the Wii U in a similar manner.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 08, 2013, 12:02:15 AM
I want to reiterate, I did not create this thread to bash Nintendo. I didn't create it to bash the Iwata, Reggie and Miyamoto (though there are few a few things I could say about them, I won't.) I created it purely to discuss the current situation and courses of action for the short term future.
I have never denied future potential. What worries me is that it won't be worth examining due to no one caring.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: lolmonade on May 08, 2013, 12:26:09 AM
Don't get me wrong, shorty, I'm not playing nintendo defense force here, and I certainly think Nintendo **** the bed with how they handled Wii U's launch, but I just disagree with the premise that nintendo would bow out completely from consoles.
I only pray no one compare the Wii u to the Dreamcast. It makes my blood boil every time I see that terrible, inaccurate analogy on every stupid gaming website comments section.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 08, 2013, 12:30:46 AM
but I just disagree with the premise that nintendo would bow out completely from consoles.
That is quite OK sir. I didn't create this thread to start a fight. I am genuinely interested in other peoples thoughts about the situation.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Soren on May 08, 2013, 12:52:07 AM
If there's one thing to blame Nintendo on it's for having so many launch window delays that in turn helped create this extreme drought we have. That's why we're having so many threads full of nothing but hyperbole. Nintendo's doomed. Wii U to the bargain bin. No more third party games. Nintendo going third party. Nintendo going handhelds only.
The Wii U's potential will continue to unfold during the fall, winter and spring'14 periods with the 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Wind Waker HD and other games. Then third parties will go back to offering lukewarm support for the console instead of the zero support they're showing right now.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Oblivion on May 08, 2013, 12:58:53 AM
Honestly Shorty, you can't even participate in this debate without owning a Wii U and playing with it significantly. Hell, I don't think anyone who hasn't spent more than at least twenty hours on the system shouldn't say anything.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: broodwars on May 08, 2013, 01:09:33 AM
Honestly Shorty, you can't even participate in this debate without owning a Wii U and playing with it significantly.
Why not? Now, I'll agree basing your argument on other people's experiences with system specific features (slow OS, game crashing) without you having experienced them firsthand yourself isn't going to be conducent to good discussion, other portions of his argument are totally valid (not owning a Wii U because of delays, lack of 1st or 3rd party games).
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: broodwars on May 08, 2013, 01:19:30 AM
To answer the thread's question, I think it will be Nintendo's Last Console. However, I think every company's current or upcoming console will be their last one. Our society is just moving away from this idea of the dedicated gaming hardware box separate from the PC or mobile device. So yeah, Nintendo will go handheld-only eventually because that's where our society is going.
As for the Wii U, I barely use mine. I think the most time I've put into it has either been the 10-12 hrs it took me to finish Disaster: Day of Crisis or the equivalent time in Lego City Undercover. I just have nothing but pure apathy for the device. I never play it, and I never want to play it unless I have an occasional craving for an obscure Wii game from my backlog. It's just not a device I associate with my gaming habits like I do my 3DS, Vita, or PS3. It has nothing I want to play on it, and it's a pain in the ass to use. Right now, my Wii U is out on loan to my best friend, who has also largely used it to play Wii & Wii Virtual Console games. It's not a device I'm eager to have back.
Do I think the Wii U is "doomed", though? Hard to say, and even harder to say if I actually care. Nintendo showed with the N64 that they could carry a platform almost entirely by themselves, but they made better software back then so that might not be a good indicator. For right now, all I can say is that this E3 will make or break the Wii U, so Nintendo had better have one HELL of a phenomenal lineup of games not previously revealed, or the Wii U probably will be doomed. Either way, it's not going to be my primary gaming device, so all I ask is that Nintendo give me a reason to care about my Wii U for those occasional games.
I do enjoy seeing Nintendo squirming, though. When Nintendo's bleeding and their back is up against the wall is when they're the most interesting, because that is when they are the most desperately creative. They were FAR too complacent and boring during the Wii years.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 08, 2013, 01:38:19 AM
Honestly Shorty, you can't even participate in this debate without owning a Wii U and playing with it significantly.
While I understand what you are saying, I disagree.
If the points in question were purely software (IE variety or lack of in games) then you are completely correct. However, these are not subjective issues. These aren't based on peoples opinions. These are long standing problems that affect everyone. Granted, some people are more patient than others, and these people may not mind unplugging their system to restart it because it has frozen solid. However, this does not mean it is not an issue.
One or two of the issues it would be a whole different ballgame. I'm sure the vast majority of people could get over that. It would be an irritation, but it could be forgotten about and the system could be enjoyed. But there is a whole swag of universal issues which NEED addressing, which is the whole point of this topic.
I ask you, what do you feel Nintendo has done RIGHT with the Wii U?
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Caterkiller on May 08, 2013, 01:46:21 AM
No way this is Nintendo's last console and I certainly don't see it's current status as something that will last the whole generation.
What I do believe though is after this Nintendo will leave its bubble almost entirely. I don't think it means however the next console will bleed money with super duper over the top tech, but I think its features will include what many consider the industry standard along with Nintendo's own zaniness. Oh and many 3rd parties will still ignore them. But all that's just based on nothing more than it seems like Nintendo is "coming around."
The hysteria over Wii U is amazing though. It's not like we have any RRODs. Single and stylus touch is much better than multi touch for games(it is, multi touch is used for a lack of buttons and without a stylus drawing well would be near impossible). The CPU is not as good as the Ps360 but OMG the Ps4's CPU isn't as good as the Ps3's either! Look it up. Oh no there is mic built in but we can't use it without a head set?! Shut up and do some real research. You can do full on voice chat within games without a headset as long as the developer wants to. COD may require for me to use headphones, not even a mic, but Monster Hunter lets me just use the gamepad.
Why isn't the 3rd party support more like gamecubes? Really? Anyone who says that needs to go back in time and shut the heck up. We had a few bones thrown at us back then and have a few bones being thrown at us now. It's amazing how people remember the full generation as if they had all those gamecube games at once, as if we never had dry spells. Look at your posts from almost 10 years ago, all we talked about all the time was how we got Capconed and only had Time Splitters for a shooter. I'm exaggerating but its true.
I'm not a smart man by any means, but I can sit back and think rationally for second before I start acting like a typical dumb cluck who reads a headline and nothing else. The latest E3 hooplah is the best example of gaming fans and gaming media being typical dumb clucks. This won't be Nintendo's last console and thinking that the main problem is anything but a steady supply of games is just ignoring history.
I'm completely ok with the U's power because if I get games that will eventually look better than Halo 4, God of War 3, Galaxy etc I am set. I fully expect later Wii U games to get close to and may even surpass what Sony showed at their Ps4 revealing. Still that doesn't mean I don't want universal voice chat, a messaging system that I can quickly get access to while I'm looking at my friends list, unified account etc. But those things aren't impossible within the U's life span and to top it off the controller just makes gaming life easier.
Another thing, I never felt betrayed with Wii. I got the best Mario and Donkey kong ever, I got a new Sin and Punishment and a Zelda that didn't have a single light the torch with a stick puzzle. I got the best JRPG this gen and a way to control FPSs that doesn't make me pissed at the world. Then when I had friends over who don't normally play games, I had a heck of a time with Wii Sports and Resort. Only draw back for me was to me the games were uglier than GameCube games, aside from Galaxy. Of course my perception was off because of how my first impression of those GameCube games were ingrained in my memory.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: ShyGuy on May 08, 2013, 02:11:22 AM
If I got my opinions from whining nerds on the Internet, I'd kill myself.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: broodwars on May 08, 2013, 02:15:44 AM
I ask you, what do you feel Nintendo has done RIGHT with the Wii U?
Well, I can think of three things:
1. They seem to have dropped motion control support, more or less, in favor of traditional (and most importantly: functional, which MC never was) controls.
2. They've made a pretty strong push to get as many Wii U games available both in retail and digital form. Even if the Wii U's pitiful storage isn't big enough to store such games and the eShop is a cluster**** to navigate right now (though, granted, still better than the abysmal Wii Shop was), at least the content is available however you want it.
3. They included backwards compatibility right out of the box, allowing Wii U owners to at least have something to play on their console between the 1 Wii U game released every 2-3 months.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Oblivion on May 08, 2013, 02:18:13 AM
Hell, I don't think anyone who hasn't spent more than at least twenty hours on the system shouldn't say anything.
Is that a double or triple negative, because that sentence makes no sense? :Q
What?
I don't think (easy to understand right?) anyone who hasn't played more than at least twenty hours on the system (so my "i don't think" only includes anyone who hasn't played for more than twenty hours) shouldn't say anything (those who hasn't played for more than twenty hours shouldn't say anything).
I shouldn't have have to break my setence down that much, but I said it correctly. :)
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: ShyGuy on May 08, 2013, 02:23:19 AM
It is possible that the next Nintendo system is a tablet sized hand-held with a wireless streaming dongle that plugs into HDMI. Like the WiiU in reverse with the processor in the pad. It would be both a console AND a hand held.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: broodwars on May 08, 2013, 02:23:29 AM
Hell, I don't think anyone who hasn't spent more than at least twenty hours on the system shouldn't say anything.
Is that a double or triple negative, because that sentence makes no sense? :Q
What?
I don't think (easy to understand right?) anyone who hasn't played more than at least twenty hours on the system (so my "i don't think" only includes anyone who hasn't played for more than twenty hours) shouldn't say anything (those who hasn't played for more than twenty hours shouldn't say anything).
I shouldn't have have to break my setence down that much, but I said it correctly. :)
Well, thanks for the clarification because I was honestly confused trying to read that. Let me reword that in a way that's easier to read:
"I don't think anyone should say anything on this subject if they haven't played their Wii U for at least 20 hours."
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: ThePerm on May 08, 2013, 04:54:49 AM
The only way i can see them getting out of the console business is when they have miniaturized super powered graphics chips enough to where you can take it with you. At some point if the trend continues the console is going to be nothing more then an hdmi dongle.
i think we're about 2 generations to that point. In which time they will just have a wii u controller and call it Ultra Gameboy.
I can imagine it being like a combo router tv device. The controller would have enough chipage to operate independantly.
prediction. Nintendo will release a slighly different version of the Wii U controller. It would be about 150 by itself, but would be able to operate independantly of the console, and connect via usb. Why usb? There is only so much wireless video bandwidth.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: ejamer on May 08, 2013, 07:10:52 AM
Less than a year after the 3DS launch, that system was an absolute mess and not worth owning. It was the laughing stock of the gaming community, destined to be destroyed by Vita, and proof that Nintendo didn't know what they were doing anymore when it came to handhelds.
My, how things have changed. 3DS is a great system now with a strong lineup of games (including some meaningful third party support). It's easy to recommend to most gamers.
That doesn't mean that Wii U will eventually become a "success"... but I really think it's too early to judge fairly, and making comparisons to the expected consumer response for the next PlayStation/XBox is especially silly since nobody yet knows how those consoles will actually fare.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Adrock on May 08, 2013, 07:22:36 AM
I don't see Nintendo releasing a new version of Wii U that drastically changes the current set-up. People are confused enough by Wii U; doing something like having the GamePad able to operate independently of the console and connect via USB is practically like marketing a new console. The only new version of Wii U I can see involves the storage options. It'll be either the same model with greater internal flash memory (e.g. 64 GB) or a new design with a hard drive bay, maybe with a hard drive included (e.g. 250 GB). Neither are sure things, but I think the former is more likely than the latter.
As for a future console in which the GamePad is the console in a reverse-Wii U set-up, I can't really see that happening either. Such a set-up would force Nintendo to make too many compromises. Do they combine handheld and console into one device? How many screens does this have? How do you carry it around? You simply can't do the same things anymore. A jack of all trades is a master of none.
Do they keep handheld and console separate? A portable home console cannibalizes their handheld. Trying to convince people to buy both becomes far more difficult. I think Nintendo likes keeping them separate. Right now, they're clearly defined devices. Changing industry trends may force Nintendo's hand one way or another, but I see them trying to keep them separate for as long as they can.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: pokepal148 on May 08, 2013, 07:46:32 AM
As far as I can tell, every single facet of the Wii U has been a disaster. - The console is underpowered.
ok let me stop you there... compared to what... we don't have a solid specsheet for the PS4/720 and even then the gamecube has proven that specs don't always tell the whole story...
outside of Ram the Wii U seems in line with what we know about the PS4 (yes the PS4 has 8 cores but those cores come from a micro-processer made for tablets)
they could maybe introduce some usb Ram expansion stick IDK
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on May 08, 2013, 08:18:05 AM
As far as I can tell, every single facet of the Wii U has been a disaster. - The console is underpowered. -First Nintendo HD console, more power than PS3 or Xbox 360, console has plenty of power. - The OS is slow and buggy. -The recent patch helped alot. In my experience, it went from a Vita like experience to a PS3 like experience. - Frequent game crashing. I've not experienced a crash yet. Not saying they don't exist, I've just not experienced it yet. - Pretty much nothing standout in the way of games. -I'd challenge you to find many systems that have a great lineup at this point in their life. I'm very excited about Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101. The Wii U will get great games, I'm not worried about that. - Been shunned by 3rd parties. As has every Nintendo console since N64. You can say EA shunning them is new, but they got shunned by EA for mainstay launches on the Wii (Battlefield, Deep Space) and always had the worst port in the sports departments. - Hardly any information pre-launch. (Ordinary PR) -? :confused; We still don't know anything about the Durango console and that is expected to launch in November. - Missing DLC -So far one title has not said what their Wii U DLC plans are, and EA dropped Wii U support. The capacity for DLC is there and will be utilized by most people who put together a Wii U game. - Staple titles absent from the system. -This is really the same point as shunned by 3rd parties since Nintendo staples will obviously appear.
You say your not here to cause issues, but it seems like you are just trying to rail on the Wii U to me. The measuring stick of any consoles is the games. I'll give you, the Wii U is lacking games at this point in it's life so it's hard for me to recommend a purchase at this time. But the system is the best hardware that Nintendo has released. It will probably be outshined by the PS4 and Durango, but they will be outdated by PC within a few months anyway. It does 1080p and people that take the time to port correctly put the best versions on the Wii U. The system is fine and won't be a Wii to PS3 downgrade.
Other positives not mentioned above. Nintendo has gone back to a focus on core games, which I'm excited about. Also, the Wii U not selling great isn't necessarily a bad thing for Nintendo fans. With the Gamecube, there was a players choice within a year of the system launch. When did the Wii get a players choice? It seemed like year 6 to me and they kept it limited to games that had sequels or didn't really sell well in the first place.
I don't think home consoles will go away. The DS is a monster brand and I don't think Nintendo is in a hurry to get the DS to compete against the PS4 and Durango. You have the issue with multiplayer. Do you buy multiple DS's? Do you sell stand alone controllers for the DS? How do you do storage? Do the games use 32 gig sd cards or do you build in a hard drive? How do you implement the dual screens? Also, the DS would cost $500+ if it had enough power to do 1080p and multiplayer with just one system. I also think the market for handheld will try to stay portable only. I think Apple wants to sell 3-4 Ipads to your family. They are in no hurry to give you a one shop stop to get everything you want in just 1 device.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: RarityGamer on May 08, 2013, 10:25:52 AM
Even if the Wii U fails to do anything, Nintendo are a very rich company. They could afford it. They'd probably end moving Iwata on mind. And on the whole, it could be a huge wake up call for the company. The biggest problem I actually think Nintendo have is lack of investment on developers. Rare for example were a great company that would take some of the weight off the Nintendo teams when they were busy making the next Mario, Zelda and Starfox? (hehehe) and so on. Retro were a great company to acquire, but I think more is needed.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: tendoboy1984 on May 08, 2013, 10:44:05 AM
I think he's saying in the future, consoles and handhelds will be the same device. Think of a Vita that can connect to your TV via Bluetooth to stream games to the bigger screen (similar to Apple's AirPlay).
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Ian Sane on May 08, 2013, 01:56:58 PM
I think the future is for handhelds and consoles to be one in the same. So even if the Wii U became Nintendo's most successful console yet I think it should be their last console in the traditional sense. If they combined the two then they wouldn't have to worry about spreading their resources thin trying to supply games for two formats. Plus Japan is all about handhelds now and North America is a little more interested in consoles. A system that was both could sell in both markets. It's just the logical successor to both the 3DS and the Wii U.
So what I wonder is if the Wii U will get its act together or if it doesn't if Nintendo will drop it earlier than normal. How bad would it have to do for Nintendo to completely give up on it? And if it was that bad would they just go with no console for a while or would they have a new console prior to the handheld-console combo? Of course the handheld-console combo is just where I think the industry SHOULD go and perhaps will eventually go but that doesn't mean that Nintendo is thinking of going there. I could see them focusing on handhelds but not picking up on the idea to let them also connect to a TV. Nintendo misses the most obvious ideas a lot of the time.
For me the Wii U purchase has been a no-go because I did not like the Wii and the Wii U has not demonstrated any real improvement. It's still gimmick controllers (though thankfully a "add gimmick" one instead of the "replace with gimmick" approach of the Wii), out-of-date hardware, cookie cutter sequels, casual focused games staring the Miis, and TERRIBLE third party support. Now Nintendo has only released two games thus far so the fact that their lineup shows no real difference or improvement over the Wii might just be because of the small sample size.
Is my justification for waiting on a Wii U purchase very specific to me or do enough people have a similar attitude and that is contributing to poor Wii U sales? The Wii was very popular among casuals but controversial among core gamers. If the casuals all went to smartphones, which I think they have, that leaves the core gamers to buy the Wii U. Well are they going to just jump back in bed with Nintendo just like that or are they going to see if they get another casual-focused console like the Wii or something more suited to their tastes? It seems like the casual market for dedicated videogame systems is gone but that is the market that made the Wii successful and the Wii U seems aimed at the same market. The Wii U seems like a product without a real audience. How far can such a product go and can Nintendo prop something like that up for the next five years? If the casual market is truly gone can they refocus the Wii U at the core market or is too handicapped by its design to fill that role?
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: MagicCow64 on May 08, 2013, 02:28:35 PM
If the Wii U fails, I don't think Nintendo would have any other option but to go with the handheld-hybrid concept. Motion controls were a one-time wild card, can't see how they could re-energize the home market again without some kind of VR breakthrough (and I'm not convinced this will ever be a viable mass market product, or at least not for 20 years).
Supposing the Wii U dies on the vine, what could Nintendo do to follow that up? Release a bleeding-edge tech system two or three years into the PS4/Durango lifecycle? At that point, who would the market be for a full-priced new console that lacked the software history of its competitors?
One thing that I've seen bandied about is the idea of a subscription service. This could be integrated with a Wii U re-launch. The sub would give you unlimited access to ALL virtual console games, including an expanded roster of systems (Dreamcast, GameCube). So potentially they could become the Netflix of older games, supported by new Nintendo releases. The issue with this (besides the probably lack of tech), is that the reason Netflix is staying afloat is that it's a crazy good deal for the amount of content. Nintendo would have to divorce themselves from their long, deeply ingrained habit of treating their catalog like holy relics, only to be exhibited at the time and cost of their choosing.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: ShyGuy on May 08, 2013, 04:40:48 PM
Nintendo already consolidated their handheld and console hardware divisions. I think they are a year ahead of us.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Adrock on May 08, 2013, 05:40:23 PM
I presumed that was for better connectivity in the future and so things like Miiverse show up concurrently between console and handheld.
Like I said, combining the console and handheld into one device forces too many compromises. I think Nintendo wants to keep them separate. And honestly, I'd prefer it that way.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 08, 2013, 06:40:12 PM
I think if they can solve the issue of battery life there wouldn't be many compromises that had to be made, although that is one hell of an "if" right there.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Stratos on May 08, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
I don't see what compromises there would be. There are workarounds to meet both needs. They could just model both the handheld and the console marketing similar to how they do the DS/DSi or 3DS/3DS XL marketing:
Release the NinTablet that is smaller - maybe even clam shell akin to the 3DS - and market that as their 'handheld-centric' device.
Release a NinTablet XL that is as large as a modern tablet with larger storage space.
Both can play the same games and even make both connect to your television via wireless or USB dongle. Then consumers can decide how they want their experience to be from the get-go. Would that be so hard to go along with?
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Ian Sane on May 08, 2013, 07:02:51 PM
Nintendo seems unwilling or unable to make cutting edge console hardware so where is the compromise that Nintendo wouldn't already enforce with the existing model? We had a bit of time there where their products were the 3DS and Wii, which from a layman's perspective appear comparable in terms of hardware. Ditto the PS Vita and PS3. We've been talking about consoles peaking on hardware for years now where the benefit from a hardware boost is not so obvious to the consumer to convince them to spent a big wad of cash every five or six years. Each generation will become longer and longer as the obvious improvements of an affordable hardware increase decrease. If we move into 10 or even 20 year generations, why wouldn't you want to make that same hardware in a handheld format? At the very least the handheld hardware may catch up and then making them different formats is arbitrary.
I also figure that Nintendo is never going to keep up with the competition on the console front. Having a unified Nintendo system I can play as a console or a handheld works better for me than having some gimped Nintendo console that gets like five games a year or Nintendo only supporting handhelds. What I want is a Nintendo that keeps up with the rest of the industry but if they can't or won't do that then a handheld/console combo is the best approach from them I can hope for.
Of course this hybrid not only needs to connect to TVs but also needs to connect to external controllers. Hell I suggest multiple models as the portability will increase the price and it would be nice to have a cheaper console model that doesn't need to include a built-in battery, screen or speakers. I suppose screen size might be a bit of an issue as games designed for a smaller resolution will look like crap on a big TV but you can't have really fine or small writing on a handheld.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Fjurbanski on May 08, 2013, 08:00:06 PM
The only compromise I see is from a control aspect. Every game made for this console/handheld would have to be made with the handheld in mind. Everything that Nintendo has done up to this point have to be thrown out the window. A game like ZombiU would never be made because you wouldn't be able to make a game that makes heavy use of screen on the controller. Because as soon as you left the house you wouldn't be able to use those asynchronous functions. Nintendo would only be able to make games that only use the standard buttons of the modern controller. Sure we'd have the convenience of every game at home and on the go, but the games themselves would be limited to standard controls. And although i'm sure there are plenty of people who would just love that, it doesn't sound like something Nintendo would like. Having the handheld and console as separate entities allows Nintendo more freedom to mess around like they enjoy doing.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Stratos on May 08, 2013, 08:29:19 PM
Having the handheld and console as separate entities allows Nintendo more freedom to mess around like they enjoy doing.
And allows Nintendo to gouge our wallets on more hardware purchases. ;)
Joking aside, you have a good point. I had an idea similar to Ian's but doing anything like a dongle station to attach controllers and such might fracture the market like we have seen in the past. N64 Expansion Pak, Circle Pad Pro, Classic Controller...these have weakened the exposure ability of games. While us game nerds like having extra dongles and controller options, the average consumer will probably ignore them and a portion of the market would be alienated and confused one way or the other.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Mop it up on May 08, 2013, 08:55:30 PM
You know what they say about headlines that ask a question...
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 08, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
Hell, I don't think anyone who hasn't spent more than at least twenty hours on the system shouldn't say anything.
Is that a double or triple negative, because that sentence makes no sense? :Q
What?
I don't think (easy to understand right?) anyone who hasn't played more than at least twenty hours on the system (so my "i don't think" only includes anyone who hasn't played for more than twenty hours) shouldn't say anything (those who hasn't played for more than twenty hours shouldn't say anything).
I shouldn't have have to break my setence down that much, but I said it correctly. :)
Technically correct...but still confusing. Using too many negatives, when positive statements can be used, makes sentences that are hard to understand.
You could of easily said:
I think people who haven't played the WiiU for at least 15 hours, should not comment on the console. A much more precise statement.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 08, 2013, 09:15:59 PM
Well, IF nintendo was to create a single console and handheld device into one unit. I think it would come with a recharge station that plugs permanently into the TV. This station could have simple docks for extra controllers and handle any features needing an extra connection.
But I do not think Nintendo would have to worry about having the next powerful super HD console. The tablet markets are plenty powerful right now, and in 6-7 years what is available on the market now will be much cheaper to produce and make. If you could make a handheld with the power of the current ipads or more powerful with traditional controls...that could plug into a television then you would have a compelling console.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 08, 2013, 09:22:13 PM
The only compromise I see is from a control aspect. Every game made for this console/handheld would have to be made with the handheld in mind. Everything that Nintendo has done up to this point have to be thrown out the window. A game like ZombiU would never be made because you wouldn't be able to make a game that makes heavy use of screen on the controller. Because as soon as you left the house you wouldn't be able to use those asynchronous functions. Nintendo would only be able to make games that only use the standard buttons of the modern controller. Sure we'd have the convenience of every game at home and on the go, but the games themselves would be limited to standard controls. And although i'm sure there are plenty of people who would just love that, it doesn't sound like something Nintendo would like. Having the handheld and console as separate entities allows Nintendo more freedom to mess around like they enjoy doing.
Not exactly true....two screens on the 3DS and DS say hi!!! Actually, yes there are some games that could only be played at home like Wii Fit...but then you could also do things like never before. Wii Fit travel, could monitor your walking, and even suggest activities during the day to keep you exercising and active.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: MagicCow64 on May 08, 2013, 09:48:38 PM
If you could make a handheld with the power of the current ipads or more powerful with traditional controls...that could plug into a television then you would have a compelling console.
I think that's it. An easy dongle that can go into most devices. The device itself has full controls like the Wii U gamepad. If people are carrying around iPads, they might be willing to tote big ole handheld systems. Ain't like Vitas or 3DSXLs are especially small.
The latency tech from the Wii U could end up being its major breakthrough. Like I think Ian said earlier, if you could make a tablet with comparable tech to a PS4 that also turned into an Apple TV when you plug it into a screen and could stream games, you could probably have a product that leap frogs the obsolescence of dedicated game machines.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Fjurbanski on May 08, 2013, 10:06:33 PM
I like the idea of having one console, but that's mostly because I like the idea of not having to buy anymore portable consoles. I never game on the go, because when I leave the house I have things to do, so I just end up playing my 3DS in the house. I bought a 3DS simply that's where the good games are, but I'd rather all those resources go towards the Wii U. So I'd rather Nintendo only focus on one CONSOLE, as in not a handheld. The issue I see with having a console that IS a handheld is that we would probably see Nintendo tailoring their games to the handheld aspect of the system rather than the home console aspect. I think certain games lose a lot when they're specifically made to be portable (Luigi's Masion 2 for example).
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Adrock on May 09, 2013, 03:20:27 AM
I would have agreed that barely any compromises had to be made pre-DS because handhelds up to that point were just weaker, portable consoles. They played the same kinds of games for the most part, just a generation or so apart. Then, Nintendo began separating the two with DS, presumably to justify each product's existence. 3DS and Wii U do different things. The main difference is that 3DS's screens are fixed and the Wii U GamePad can be moved independently of the television. Once you take it out of the house, you can't do that anymore. So? Well, once you start asking developers to do extra work (in this instance, a game that plays differently depending on where you are), you start encountering resistance. What Nintendo should have learned by now is that they absolutely cannot force developers into a position where they have to do more or different things.
One way or another, you're going to end up with one less screen when you leave your house. That matters. And the size of the screens matter. Your eyes shift between two small screens on 3DS; you're entire head moves between GamePad and television. How do you reconcile any of that? Then, you have to worry about what controls it has. The original GamePad had circle pads which Nintendo changed because that was silly to put on a home console. And it's still not portable. The GamePad is light, but it's thick and has handles. It's not a tablet which are millimeters in depth.
I'm not saying it can't be done. Nintendo can certainly try. However, I remain skeptical since they would absolutely have to make sacrifices in many areas to make it work. I worry that an all-in-one console-handheld isn't either especially well at which point, why bother?
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 09, 2013, 03:38:48 AM
I think Nintendo would certainly want to keep the lines separate, based on the idea of being able to sell you two systems instead of one. Wii U would have to be a tremendous flop, like current sales or worse for the whole generation, for them to even consider it. Even then, I think they'll give this route at least one more shot.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Ian Sane on May 09, 2013, 01:11:21 PM
Having the handheld and console as separate entities allows Nintendo more freedom to mess around like they enjoy doing.
And allows Nintendo to gouge our wallets on more hardware purchases. ;)
Joking aside, you have a good point. I had an idea similar to Ian's but doing anything like a dongle station to attach controllers and such might fracture the market like we have seen in the past. N64 Expansion Pak, Circle Pad Pro, Classic Controller...these have weakened the exposure ability of games. While us game nerds like having extra dongles and controller options, the average consumer will probably ignore them and a portion of the market would be alienated and confused one way or the other.
I don't see how having extra controller ports will fracture the market. The N64 came with only one controller but that didn't stop anyone from making four player games. There was no concern about people who didn't own four controllers not buying the game. Typically any game that supports multiple controls does so optionally. It is literally just multiplayer and I would have the dongle station come with the system as standard.
I'll admit that some of the more gimmicky controller options of late like motion control would not work on a handheld model, and a game that only worked in "console mode" would have less appeal. Though regarding the screen, why can't you just use the handheld as your second screen? When the Wii U was announced where were all sorts of rumours about using a 3DS as a second tablet. The handheld itself can be the tablet only the top screen gets outputted to the TV when in console mode. Just imagine your 3DS has an extra analog stick and that it is the controller for your console.
I see Nintendo's obvious desire to have two seperate product lines but I think the market will demand this in time. These days the fact that I use my computer exclusively in my house is weird. The whole world is glued to handheld devices. A videogame system designed specifically to stay in your house is much more niche than it was in the days where one could not hypothesize any other way to offer home videogames. People expect to have all of their entertainment on the go. So I figure the logical future is that everything is effectively portable and if all we have are handhelds, well, why not connect them to our TV when we're at home?
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: ThePerm on May 09, 2013, 01:26:30 PM
There was some talk that once the wii u connected to the 3ds then it couldn't connect online at the same time. That could be fixed through some work-around though.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Adrock on May 09, 2013, 01:43:52 PM
Though regarding the screen, why can't you just use the handheld as your second screen? When the Wii U was announced where were all sorts of rumours about using a 3DS as a second tablet. The handheld itself can be the tablet only the top screen gets outputted to the TV when in console mode. Just imagine your 3DS has an extra analog stick and that it is the controller for your console.
The main difference is that 3DS's screens are fixed and the Wii U GamePad can be moved independently of the television. Once you take it out of the house, you can't do that anymore. So? Well, once you start asking developers to do extra work (in this instance, a game that plays differently depending on where you are), you start encountering resistance. What Nintendo should have learned by now is that they absolutely cannot force developers into a position where they have to do more or different things.
One way or another, you're going to end up with one less screen when you leave your house. That matters. And the size of the screens matter. Your eyes shift between two small screens on 3DS; you're entire head moves between GamePad and television. How do you reconcile any of that? Then, you have to worry about what controls it has. The original GamePad had circle pads which Nintendo changed because that was silly to put on a home console. And it's still not portable. The GamePad is light, but it's thick and has handles. It's not a tablet which is millimeters in depth.
I would love to only have to buy one piece of hardware that could function as both home console and handheld, but not at the expense of quality. I'd rather have two products that do what they do really well than one product that does two things not as well.
We've seen companies trying to unify two products and doing a terrible job at it. For example, in the past year or so, look how many times different companies have tried bridging the gap between tablet and laptop and they just end up making a hybrid product that sucks at being both. If the technology is there and Nintendo can pull off a hybrid product that does home console and handheld equally as well as they've been done separately in the past, sure, give it a go. Until then, don't waste anyone's time.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: MagicCow64 on May 09, 2013, 01:45:24 PM
The whole world is glued to handheld devices. A videogame system designed specifically to stay in your house is much more niche than it was in the days where one could not hypothesize any other way to offer home videogames. People expect to have all of their entertainment on the go. So I figure the logical future is that everything is effectively portable and if all we have are handhelds, well, why not connect them to our TV when we're at home?
Right, and the big thing missing right now is an easy, uniform way to beam handheld device content (or even Internet content in general) to a full-size screen. Sure, many phones and tablets have HDMI outs and it's relatively simple to connect a laptop to a screen, but there's a critical convenience gap. And stuff like Roku/Apple TV hasn't really taken off. I think Nintendo has to disrupt themselves out of their current cul-de-sac.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Ian Sane on May 09, 2013, 02:49:53 PM
There was some talk that once the wii u connected to the 3ds then it couldn't connect online at the same time. That could be fixed through some work-around though.
Isn't that just a restriction of the Wii U? This handheld/console hybrid would naturally be a new product entirely.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: pokepal148 on May 09, 2013, 08:40:23 PM
There was some talk that once the wii u connected to the 3ds then it couldn't connect online at the same time. That could be fixed through some work-around though.
Isn't that just a restriction of the Wii U? This handheld/console hybrid would naturally be a new product entirely.
why would they go all in on one product instead of currently being able to fall on one if the other fails
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: MagicCow64 on May 09, 2013, 08:51:02 PM
There was some talk that once the wii u connected to the 3ds then it couldn't connect online at the same time. That could be fixed through some work-around though.
Isn't that just a restriction of the Wii U? This handheld/console hybrid would naturally be a new product entirely.
why would they go all in on one product instead of currently being able to fall on one if the other fails
This would be a situation where it would be totally futile to try and release a feature/graphics parity competitor with PS4/Durango, and around the time a 3DS follow-up would be due.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 09, 2013, 09:32:58 PM
For all those saying the Wii U is not underpowered.
Frostbite 3 powered games will not be ported to the Wii U because it is too limp wristed. According to the article, Frostbite 2 gear ran quite badly, which makes it even worse.
This means things like Battlefield 4, future Star Wars games (ie all of them for the foreseeable future) and Mass Effect will never see the light of day on the Wii U.
Since these apparently will run on the competition systems, it would seem that the Wii U is again behind the 8 ball.\
Edit: I see this has already been mentioned in another thread.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: pokepal148 on May 09, 2013, 10:18:38 PM
Oh I love the smell of bullcrap in the morning... honestly the argument about frostbite 2 not being able to run is broken right off the bat thanks to the PS360 which makes me skeptical that EA isn't just too lazy to port the engine over when they can say the wii u is underpowered
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: ShyGuy on May 09, 2013, 10:45:59 PM
Most engines run like crap the first time on new hardware. I've posted it before, but I will post it again:
From Valve's Linux blog:
Quote
We are using a 32-bit version of Linux temporarily and will run on 64-bit Linux later. Running Left 4 Dead 2 on Windows 7 with Direct3D drivers, we get 270.6 FPS as a baseline. The data is generated from an internal test case.
When we started with Linux, the initial version we got up and running was at 6 FPS. This is typical of an initial successful port to a new platform. Performance improvements fall into several categories:
Modifying our game to work better with the kernel Modifying our game to work better with OpenGL Optimizing the graphics driver
An example of the first category would be changing our memory allocator to use more appropriate Linux functions. This was achieved by implementing the Source engine small block heap to work under Linux. The second category would include reducing overhead in calling OpenGL, and extending our renderer with new interfaces for better encapsulation of OpenGL and Direct3D. The third category is especially interesting because it involves working with hardware manufacturers to identify issues in their drivers and, as a result, improving the public driver which benefits all games. Identifying driver stalls and adding multithreading support in the driver are two examples of changes that were the result of this teamwork. After this work, Left 4 Dead 2 is running at 315 FPS on Linux.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Stratos on May 09, 2013, 11:01:01 PM
So what you are showing is that Valve has better computer engineers than EA. Too bad Valve isn't doing Wii U development.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 10, 2013, 12:46:46 AM
An engine that is not optimized for the hardware at hand (when the hardware is specially optimized for a specific purpose itself) will of course perform badly. However, it does not matter why games are coming...or whether it is a real concern or an excuse. The simple fact is Nintendo's Wii U is missing out on games...and gamers will have to decide if it is worth missing out on games to own the Wii U.
Nintendo has been always pushing the industry to do something different. And Nintendo has been moving each generation to focusing more and more of its core business on its handhelds. I believe this is because where Nintendo lost ground in the home console fight, Nintendo only continued to gain ground in the portable market. To me everything points towards Nintendo moving towards another industry and company shake up for them.
I heard they had combined hardware teams for the first time. What is the benefit of that...unless they are looking at all their options for the next console.
Also, I know people are saying developers won't want to spend the extra time to make exclusive controls and features for at home play and on the go play. That things won't be optimized for both. But I think this is less of an issue than you think.
If Nintendo pushes for a more traditional gaming front....then controls wouldn't need too much optimization. Have the system be a 3DS XL with 3 analog sticks and a dual touch screen and you have a perfect controller for a home console and a portable. Most of the time, games don't require you to constantly use both screens...and if they do...Nintendo could allow you to use 3DS alone or implement a special TV view that combines the images.
I think developers could be more interested, because it allows them to create one game to reach two markets.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Adrock on May 10, 2013, 01:22:26 AM
I heard they had combined hardware teams for the first time. What is the benefit of that...unless they are looking at all their options for the next console.
Combining the handheld and console divisions should have happened ages ago. Ideas weren't being shared between teams. That's a waste. Now, they're better positioned to prepare new ideas simultaneously or at least with minimal delays.
Quote
Also, I know people are saying developers won't want to spend the extra time to make exclusive controls and features for at home play and on the go play. That things won't be optimized for both. But I think this is less of an issue than you think.
I'm one of those people. It is an issue and we've already seen it be an issue. I've already addressed this at least twice so I don't want to get into it again.
Quote
Have the system be a 3DS XL with 3 analog sticks and a dual touch screen and you have a perfect controller for a home console and a portable.
Why stop at three analog sticks? Quite frankly, I think there should be at least seven.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 10, 2013, 01:41:12 AM
Hehehe. nice catch thanks Adrock. I needed to proofread my post better. 2 analog sticks. Though...you could do 4 maybe...and replace the analog triggers with analog sticks for your pointer fingers yeah....that would work.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Stratos on May 10, 2013, 11:26:55 AM
Hehehe. nice catch thanks Adrock. I needed to proofread my post better. 2 analog sticks. Though...you could do 4 maybe...and replace the analog triggers with analog sticks for your pointer fingers yeah....that would work.
And the next generation of kids is born with carpel tunnel. My hands hurt just thinking about that idea Spak. :P
The divisions being combined allow for then to make a seamless network interface. No more of this fractured crap. Then both systems get designed at the same time and 'connectivity' between the systems isn't an after thought or a last minute, glitchy addition.
Imagine if the GBA and the Gamecube teams were talking with each other. Or better, the DS and Wii. There could have been a lot more interactivity than there was and with better performance.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on May 13, 2013, 09:00:30 PM
Nintendo has been always pushing the industry to do something different. And Nintendo has been moving each generation to focusing more and more of its core business on its handhelds. I believe this is because where Nintendo lost ground in the home console fight, Nintendo only continued to gain ground in the portable market. To me everything points towards Nintendo moving towards another industry and company shake up for them.
Nintendo seemed to really start focusing on pushing the industry to do something different with the Wii and now with the Wii U. The N64 and Gamecube were really good traditional game systems. It's like Nintendo knew it was losing 3rd party support and wanted people to focus on features(experiences) for purchasing their game systems. They thought if enough consumers bought in 3rd parties would have to develop for their systems instead of trying to entice 3rd party developers with either partnerships or money changing hands.
Quote
Ian Sane - If they combined the two then they wouldn't have to worry about spreading their resources thin trying to supply games for two formats.
Software is hugely profitable for Nintendo. They could expand their teams to make more games if they wanted to. I don't think they want to flood the market with their games because it will drive down the value of their brand and the profitability of individual games they release as people would be more inclined to skip iterations of their games. For example, the Wii had 3 tradional Mario games and the DS had 2 Mario games. Would the market support 5 Mario games on one console? The Wii U will soon have 2 Mario's and the 3DS already has 2 Mario's.
I think the more reasonable expectation if Nintendo were forced to focus on one console would be that they would shrink development teams and possibly close some of their development studios. It will be much harder to squeeze the same profit from just one system without a systemized cost reduction or significantly increased demand.
And I think that is the key to this argument. Nintendo wouldn't want to focus on one system because it will mean less profit for them. It's possible that the market may eventually move this way, but the Wii, PS3, Xbox360 all are going to sell > 100 million units so there is still a strong market there. I think the home market could shrink as handheld entertainment becomes mainstream but I think people still want the TV to be the entertainment centerpiece of the home.
There are alot of good reasons why the home console/handheld markets would struggle and are iterated within this thread. But I'd like to add one other reason. They are almost two different markets in and of themselves. Home consoles focus on performance, 1080p and big screens. TVs will continue to get bigger and 4K screens will be appealing eventually. I don't see a handheld that costs <$400 having a hope of creating the experience I'm looking for on my big screen and this is complete overkill for mobile gaming where I want a 5" screen to look good.
I also think we are ignoring the effect that kids have in the market. I'm not happy if my kid breaks their $150 3ds but it's a risk I'm willing to take. I'm also willing to buy a 3ds per child because that is what is needed for a road trip experience. I'm not willing to buy multiple Wii Us for multiple children, and I'm not willing to risk my child taking a $350 Wii U to school and risk it breaking. So I think a $400 unit that can be a handheld fails. I think this would cause a collapse in the handheld market dominance where a $100-150 unit seems to flourish. I also think that people are willing to have a handheld as an add on because the cost is not seen as a dealbreaker(maybe even an impulse buy) and is much cheaper than other alternatives such as an ipad.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Ian Sane on May 14, 2013, 01:33:43 PM
The kids argument is hurt by all the times I see kids playing around with Smarphones. Just because you're a responsible parent who won't spend himself into oblivion buying his kids everything they want doesn't mean a hundred other parents will do the same. It's a reasonable concern for reasonable people but I just don't think the market acts that way.
Ultimately I feel that the dedicated videogame system is going to become restricted to the gaming enthusiast as people that just want a mindless distraction to pass the time move to other handheld devices. Both consoles and handhelds will see their markets shrink and the whole distinction is largely a technological limitation anyway so once that limitation is gone, they might as well join together to survive. Nintendo in particular would be helpless to compete with handheld devices that are not specifically for gaming.
And when I talk about Nintendo's resources being spread thin I'm mainly talking about their inability to supply the Wii U with games. I don't think they release enough games now so combining their handheld and console output together wouldn't be overkill or even come across as an exceptional amount of content. Now five Mario games in one generation wouldn't make sense anymore but I would expect them to adapt their specific products to the new approach.
Of course in my most pessimistic moments I figure that any form of dedicated videogame system is endangered and that videogames as I like them is going to die out, not because there isn't a market for it, but entirely because the casual market is so much bigger. They were fine targeting kids and geeks when kids and geeks were all that would buy videogames but now that they don't have to limit their product to those demographics, they won't (and they know kids will play complete garbage so they can give them the same casual junk).
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: pokepal148 on May 14, 2013, 02:03:14 PM
given my experience i strongly suspect mobile gaming as we know it will begin to heavily implode in the next few years, the question is how much it will affect standard gaming...
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: MagicCow64 on May 14, 2013, 03:06:01 PM
The kids argument is hurt by all the times I see kids playing around with Smarphones. Just because you're a responsible parent who won't spend himself into oblivion buying his kids everything they want doesn't mean a hundred other parents will do the same. It's a reasonable concern for reasonable people but I just don't think the market acts that way.
Yeah, I see too many iPads on the subway to think the cost will be a dealbreaker. Toting around expensive electronic devices is only going to become more common.
Ultimately I feel that the dedicated videogame system is going to become restricted to the gaming enthusiast as people that just want a mindless distraction to pass the time move to other handheld devices. Both consoles and handhelds will see their markets shrink and the whole distinction is largely a technological limitation anyway so once that limitation is gone, they might as well join together to survive. Nintendo in particular would be helpless to compete with handheld devices that are not specifically for gaming.
I agree, the larger trends in electronics and entertainment are most likely going to wash away the "console industry" as we know it, and it will probably be lame. The 3DS is doing pretty good, but the Vita is not, and by the time the next Gameboy will be due, I think its going to be very difficult to compete against equivalent tech smart phones.
And when I talk about Nintendo's resources being spread thin I'm mainly talking about their inability to supply the Wii U with games. I don't think they release enough games now so combining their handheld and console output together wouldn't be overkill or even come across as an exceptional amount of content. Now five Mario games in one generation wouldn't make sense anymore but I would expect them to adapt their specific products to the new approach.
The future with a hybrid device is also a future where the WiiU died on the vine from lack of support, so an in-one-device would likely become a monolithic Nintendo machine with a release every month. Now, at that point, you might question why there needs to be a Nintendo machine at all, but at that point I think you can question whey there should be differentiated dedicated consoles at all.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: smallsharkbigbite on May 14, 2013, 06:53:19 PM
The ipad and smartphones being popular is a double edged sword. They may be popular but there is a large portion of the population that is priced out of buying a $500 ipad or paying $90 a month for a smartphone. From what I could find online less than 10% of US homes own an Ipad.
Then you have the other side of the coin. If you think money is no object then you can have an Ipad and a 3DS. I think an Ipad is an inferior gaming device to the 3DS and I think there will always be a market for a cheap dedicated device that does it's job well.
Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft make some really good games that they make console exclusive. As such, games will drive a portion of the market to consoles. These makers make money off of licensing fees and incentivized to be really competitive in the market even if their competitor becomes the Ipad. That's why they are looking at FTP games, DLG, and the future delivery models. They also know that $60 games won't work on an Ipad and they want to conserve that future revenue stream.
Consoles may eventually die, I just don't think tablets are the technology to make that happen. I also think that Nintendo going a hybrid home console/portable will not make any headway in the home console market and will probably lose portable market share quickening the death of the model for Nintendo.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Ian Sane on May 14, 2013, 07:40:14 PM
The need for a dedicated videogame system is entirely a matter of quality. Smartphone games have too low a pricepoint for games with any real depth to make a profit. Smartphones and tablets also lack the proper controls to have truly sophisticated gameplay. But then if shitty controls were an issue the Wii and Kinect would both have failed. The need for a dedicated gaming system only applies to devoted gamers. Random mainstream rubes that see videogames as a disposable time filler have no need of them. Now PCs have enough control options to allow for sophisticated gameplay so perhaps the future for anyone with any serious interest in videogames is in PC games. PCs will continue to exist out of workplace necessity.
I feel like I'm some car guy talking about how cars NEED to have a manual transmission in order to have proper control while most of the world is content with their automatic and does not understand what car guys are talking about. "Fruit Ninja and Angry Birds play like a dream on my iPad so what the hell are you talking about, weird videogame guy?" Like my Mom would NEVER understand why I would need twin analog sticks and eight buttons to play a game.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Fjurbanski on May 14, 2013, 08:24:15 PM
That's a pointless analogy. Sure a motor enthusiast may prefer manual, but the end result is the same. You drive the car. The difference between manual and automatic is much smaller than the difference between Angry Birds and Dark Souls (or a hundred other games). You can drive the car either way. You can't play Dark Souls with a touchscreen.
Being satisfied by a game like Angry Birds doesn't mean these mobile gamers are idiots. Anyone with a brain would understand that some games can be played with the one input, while others are more complex. They may not want to play more complex games, but they're not going to say "Fruit Ninja and Angry Birds play like a dream on my iPad so what the hell are you talking about, weird videogame guy?", when they see a more complex game.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 15, 2013, 02:24:05 AM
Well one assumption is that Nintendo would use all those refocused resources to make MORE Mario games. But, what if those resources were used to make just more games.
If Nintendo had the resources to release a single Nintendo published game a month for a system, wouldn't that be a good thing? Since Nintendo releases several 3DS and Wii U games a year. It is likely Nintendo could easily strive for this kind of release schedule if Nintendo refocused its efforts on a single system.
Notice I said Nintendo published and not developed, because I realize many of those Nintendo games are in fact contracted out. I think Nintendo realizes they have an obligation to release new games from each franchise each year...and it is pretty stressful to meet that goal, which is why some games are contracted out, and others feel rushed. I also believe this is why Nintendo isn't making new IPs, because they don't want to add to that list of games they need to release each generation. However, I think new IPs are important and refocused games division making games for a single unit would help Nintendo to achieve both new IP creation and releasing the updates Nintendo fans desire.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: pokepal148 on May 15, 2013, 02:07:47 PM
but the issue is your going all for nothing in this case...
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 15, 2013, 10:27:40 PM
Yes, true. But is that an issue. Microsoft is kinda going all for nothing. So is Sony.
If you want to be honest, content sells media devices. If compelling content and user experience is not there then consumers will not buy.
Right now, the User Experience is there with the Wii U, but the content is not. And we all know the content is coming, but so are the other systems and their competing content.
If Nintendo had on central device, then they could produce and have available more content...which means more money for Nintendo, from more buyers of hardware and software. And honestly, if you got 1-2 games every other month would you really need 3rd party content? It would be nice, and I would say SURE...but it would not be killer like it is now.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: pokepal148 on May 15, 2013, 10:51:58 PM
Microsoft is also one of the biggest names in tech with windows, office, and Android patent abuse all giving them huge amounts of revenue
Sony also has its hands in several other markets and has found itself leaning on the PlayStation brand for profit while trying to revitalize its other brand,
Nintendo would have none of that, if the WiiDS fails for whatever reason, what happens?
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: paleselan on May 15, 2013, 10:56:38 PM
First of all, you CANNOT discount the Wii U yet. Just look at the 3DS. It started off even worse than the Wii U, and look at its turn around.
Next, I want to point out that Nintendo has 11 billion dollars sitting in the bank. Nintendo can continue producing failed consoles for the next 50 years and still have money. They have too much pride to EVER exit the console business. Plus, as long as the 3DS stays this profitable, Nintendo won't lose money and will stay profitable each year.
The last point I'd like to make is that the Wii U doesn't have to sell a lot of units in order to be profitable. Just look at the GameCube, a console which only sold 20 millions units. That's abysmal, by any standards. But, the console still was profitable for Nintendo because the hardcore gamers continued to buy games.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: azeke on May 16, 2013, 12:02:33 AM
Microsoft is kinda going all for nothing. So is Sony.
Wait, when did this happen?
Sony is SO going all or nothing for next gen they're releasing GT6 on PS3 exclusively around the same time PS4 hits (with later upport to PS4). That's how they're committed to PS4. They're releasing their biggest series bar none on PS3.
And Last of Us, Puppeteer, Rain and that visual novella with Page and Dafoe are also hitting around that time. All on PS3.
Of course we don't know much Microsoft is doing, but they never went all or nothing for Xbox. They never even went half or quarter.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: broodwars on May 16, 2013, 07:58:28 AM
First of all, you CANNOT discount the Wii U yet. Just look at the 3DS. It started off even worse than the Wii U, and look at its turn around.
I'm getting really tired of seeing people throw that statement around. The 3DS had way less competition than the Wii U does, especially outside Japan. The Wii U is (and will be) competing with the PS3, 360, PC, PS4, and Durango for relevancy. By comparison, the 3DS competes with the PSP (which only matters in Japan) and the Vita (which doesn't really matter anywhere, sales-wise). You could also argue it competes with iOS devices, but just about everything does these days. The deck was somewhat stacked in Nintendo's favor there. For that matter, the 3DS also had a major price drop as well as major revealed software already in the works (Super Mario 3D Land, Kid Icarus Uprising, Luigi's Mansion 2).
Nintendo's near-monopoly of the handheld market allowed them to salvage the 3DS, but that does not mean the same will happen with the Wii U.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: pokepal148 on May 16, 2013, 08:08:50 AM
which makes a price cut all the more necessary... if nintendo can undercut the 720/durango by a significant margin then they have a chance... but they need to create an easy, cheap and established method of porting from those systems among other things...
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: Ceric on May 16, 2013, 09:48:06 AM
I be very very surprised that the Wii U at the Deluxe Price of $350 isn't the cheapest console of the three. Sony's already went on the record saying that they will make a profit on each piece of hardware sold Day One. Now we know that the Wii U actually initially took a loss. Putting 2 and 2 together and Sony would need to price accordingly to make that claim true.
I'm not sure if Microsoft wants that Trojan horse bad enough to make their system $300-350.
At the current time Nintendo needs to make their system the place for Quirky exclusives. Things that on their own aren't system sellers but together makes it something you'll want. Putting them back to a Nintendo System and pick your multiplat box. Though to enact that strategy they are going to have to address storage and download speeds from the store.
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: pokepal148 on May 16, 2013, 01:55:27 PM
the Wii U already has more good games then the 3ds did when it got its price drop...
Title: Re: Will the Wii U be Nintendo's Last console?? Will they go handheld only??
Post by: azeke on May 16, 2013, 02:25:44 PM
the Wii U already has more good games then the 3ds did when it got its price drop...
Wii U had more good games on day 1 than 3DS did for it's first half a year.
Both in terms of first party titles and overall library. The 3DS was truly awful from launch until November.
Outside the extremely unlikely event that one or both of the new consoles launching later this year is an immediate hit, Nintendo isn't in the dire shape some would have you believe. Things aren't good right now, but they still have plenty of opportunity to address that, beginning with the Nintendo Direct tomorrow and then E3.
