Nintendo World Report Forums

Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: BradN10 on May 24, 2003, 10:20:57 AM

Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: BradN10 on May 24, 2003, 10:20:57 AM: i know a lot are debating over the systems looks and specs, but what im wondering what will the next generation's graphics look like. i doubt fully life like, since the movie industry is still not totally life-like yet but they're getting close with final fantasy movie. anyways, do they have concept art or teasers for futuristic gaming? thanks. peace.
-brad-
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 24, 2003, 11:57:11 AM: Look at Metroid Prime. That's what the graphics will commonly look like next generation.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: HereticPB on May 24, 2003, 08:15:13 PM: They will look like Rogue Leader2 and Metroid as the previous said. But there will be more bump mapping proably more layers of it. Probably will look 2 steps up from the GC.

Im not gonna say its impossible to get life like graphics thats still a few years off but its getting closer.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: oohhboy on May 25, 2003, 02:56:15 AM: Self true shadowing. All objest have shadow, possibly multiple from many light sources. Ray tracing to one reflection maybe? Reflections would be prefect. Grass/fur would be a common thing. Realistic Rag dool phyisics. Desturcable envirments and vehicals. FSAA at all supported resolutions. 640 x480 to 1024 x 768. Objects and debries will stay much longer in game world. Slow down should be a thing of the past. Dynamic fog? Hard to imagine what it would look like. I hope no one says things like "Toy story like graphics".
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: ThePerm on May 25, 2003, 11:55:25 PM: the graphics should be similar to the full motion video in final fantasy 9.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 26, 2003, 01:56:06 PM: Or FF10? Those were pretty good (the rest of the game's graphics were poo, but those cinemas were startlingly good).
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: ThePerm on May 26, 2003, 05:35:40 PM: i dont know about ff10s fmvs thats some crazy graphics there....maybe the generation after...a long time from now
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: HereticPB on May 26, 2003, 11:03:45 PM: The next gen systems or even the next next gen systems should start to or get near or be the look of these.

Container
Cherry Table
Ovals
Robots
Iron
Can Tops

These pictures are created by using NURBS (Non-Uniform Rational B-Splines) wireframing with added effects such as lighting, shading,etc

HtPB
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 27, 2003, 01:24:58 PM: I still don't think that consoles are in the vicinity of doing NURBS in real time. Sorry Heretic.

And those hoping for Square FMV in realtime? Don't hold your breath. Check out the Rebirth movie on GCN. It looks about FF9 FMV quality, but there's no way in hell that anyone would want to program a game engine that would do that on GCN. Just because the ability is there doesn't mean that anyone is actually going to tap that power.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: EggyToast on May 27, 2003, 02:44:28 PM: And technically, those are Daleks, not Robots.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: HereticPB on May 27, 2003, 08:02:09 PM: Many games and parts of games are created using Nurbs! Maya anybody. Technology moves, it changes, it gets faster.

HtPB
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: oohhboy on May 27, 2003, 09:19:10 PM: The NURBs are then converted ploygons, so consoles still run ploygons, not NURBs. In Rogue Leader, I think they had used Maya in ploygon mode. Check the Video in the game.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: HereticPB on May 27, 2003, 09:54:00 PM: Isn't this a look ahead type topic? I know they don't use NURBS fully or at all. They convert eh so it goes from smooth to blocky. lol ok

I guess they use more polygons then
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: ThePerm on May 27, 2003, 10:18:01 PM: 1 nurb equals the power of alot of polygons..might as well continue tro push polygons...and grey ninja yeah..were on the fast forward section not the gamecube discussion hahah
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: PIAC on May 28, 2003, 02:02:03 AM: exterminate exterminate!
darleks freaked me out when i was a wee kid, they still do

those pictures are amazing how ever
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: KDR_11k on May 28, 2003, 05:19:40 AM: Why NURBS? Seeing what Truform can do, I'm optimistic the same could be pulled off with polygons and SubD modeling.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Tael on May 28, 2003, 05:48:49 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Why NURBS? Seeing what Truform can do, I'm optimistic the same could be pulled off with polygons and SubD modeling.
Probably because a GPU that provides hardware acceleration for NURBS and can render the kind of CGI seen in movies at 60fps is like the Holy Grail of real-time 3D graphics.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: oohhboy on May 29, 2003, 04:44:20 AM: Tru-form would be easier to omplement as it would work like standard LOD but in hardware(ATI tech demo), not software and tru-form is not as hardware intensive. Therefore cheaper hardware. the thing is that by the time we do get to NURBS, the number of ploygons with the machines can push, it wouldn't matter.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Termin8Anakin on May 29, 2003, 05:42:04 AM: excuse me for asking, but what the hell is a nurb?
From what I'm reading, I'm gussing that a nurb to a polygon is like gigabytes to kilobyte, or something, am I right?
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Tael on May 29, 2003, 06:10:04 AM: Quote
Originally posted by: oohhboy
Tru-form would be easier to omplement as it would work like standard LOD but in hardware(ATI tech demo), not software and tru-form is not as hardware intensive. Therefore cheaper hardware. the thing is that by the time we do get to NURBS, the number of ploygons with the machines can push, it wouldn't matter.
Yeah, that's definetly true, but it'd be a real milestone in real-time 3D graphics to use NURBS over polys. It's all about the glory of using NURBS over polys!

Quote
Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin
excuse me for asking, but what the hell is a nurb?
From what I'm reading, I'm gussing that a nurb to a polygon is like gigabytes to kilobyte, or something, am I right?
If I remember correctly, NURBS use mathematical functions to generate 3D geometry.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 29, 2003, 11:56:55 AM: Yes. I know this is the Fast Forward section. But I seriously doubt that Nintendo's next console will be able to pull off NURBS in real time either. Games do not use NURBS in real time, as it would would quickly take over the majority of the system's power. That's not good.

I just think you guys are getting ahead of yourselves here. The next Nintendo console will be good, but they are not going to give us a military flight simulator ok? It will be small, cost effective, and will provide a level of graphics detail above what is common in home computers 2 years from now. 2 years from now, I highly doubt that any game developers will even be considering putting NURBS surfaces into a game. The difference is that FSAA will be commonplace, polygon counts will be WAY up, textures will be very detailed, and more effects will be used.

Essentially, take MGS3 or Metroid Prime. Smooth out all the lines. That's the game.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: HereticPB on May 29, 2003, 12:52:22 PM: I like to keep my mind open! You never know what any company or product or technology will do or come up.

HtPB
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 29, 2003, 12:59:02 PM: Yes, but judging by the response of people in this forum to E3, I don't think you should be hyping all this stuff. I really don't think it's realistic to expect the next console to do NURBS in realtime, and I don't think it's healthy for you all to be hyping it is all.

I mean, E3 wasn't THAT bad. Look at Penny Arcade for example. Gabe came away happily babbling about Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicle, and I developed a whole new MGS obsession over the 2 MGS games announced at the show. The Resident Evil footage was awesome, and I got to see some more of Tales of Symphonia. I also got to see some Star Fox, some Mario Kart, and even some Harvest Moon. E3 was awesome, just as every year.

Yet all people around here do is complain about what WASN'T there. This is what I would like to avoid regarding Nintendo's next console.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: ThePerm on May 29, 2003, 03:15:15 PM: its possible to acheive those graphics with polygons instead of nurbs...we went from make 360,000 polygons flat shaded max to 100 million polygons flatshaded in 1 genration. Of coarse with lkighting and what not that goes down drastically. Iv been told that to produce the type of visuals of Toy Story i nreal time you would need a system that could pump at least 800 million polys raw ..of coarse that is cut down. However in the next generation graphics will be pretty and all i can say is it will be basically impossible to tell system to system which is superior.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Tael on May 29, 2003, 05:16:28 PM: Isn't the PSP supposed to use 3D polys and NURBS? If that's true, why can't a video game console have the same kind of features as a portable gaming system?
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: ThePerm on May 29, 2003, 05:51:20 PM: i rmemebere game devloper magazine showed how you could do nurbs on n64...any systme can do nurbs..however no one will write an engine that does a s grey ninja siad as it takes more power then you can put out.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Tael on May 29, 2003, 05:58:38 PM: Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
i rmemebere game devloper magazine showed how you could do nurbs on n64...any systme can do nurbs..however no one will write an engine that does a s grey ninja siad as it takes more power then you can put out.
True, any system can do NURBS, but the way Sony were touting it, it seems like they must have some kind of incentive for developers to use NURBS.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: ThePerm on May 30, 2003, 12:33:35 PM: i think their using it liek a buzzword
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 30, 2003, 12:41:04 PM: Much like Microsoft claiming that the Xbox can do 250 Million polys. No developer is going to pay attention to them.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: KDR_11k on June 07, 2003, 01:39:35 AM: NURBS are rarely used these days. Everyone's going for SubD. There is not much difference whether the mesh is defined by NURBS or SubD, in the end it's just a lot of polies. Best would be to use no hi-poly techs (NURBS, SubDSurfs, etc.) but do it by-hand. You know, in fighting games (and beachvolleyball games) the chars have approx. 16k, compared to the 3k of Unreal Tournament 2003 or the 5k of Doom 3 and HalfLife 2. There's still a lot of room until we need SubD.

Gaah, I hope those times don't come too fast, I already get confused with 3k...

Sony claimed the PSP can do NURBS? Bull! That thing cannot render as fast as the PS2 and is supposed to do NURBS? Hell, if you don't convert them to poly without subdivision (which kinda defeats the purpose) you've easily got 500k per model. AFAIK the PS2 cannot render a 500k scene with a decent framerate, how is an inferior system supposed to do 500k per character?
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Termin8Anakin on June 12, 2003, 04:23:24 AM: I can't believe you guys know all this techno babble.
I'm soo lost at the moment.
NURBs sound so technically advanced. Heehee.

All in all, PSP sucks.
Sony seems to do what they do best (as does Microsoft), and that is blow up tech specs to insanely unbelievable numbers.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: KDR_11k on June 12, 2003, 06:52:31 AM: Well, I'm supposed to know all that technobabble, how would I work with the tools if I didn't know what they were?
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Grey Ninja on June 12, 2003, 12:17:12 PM: I'm an OpenGL programmer. I read a bit of the chapter covering NURBS, and decided it was a waste of my time as it was too unwieldy to be practical, and went back to the Bezier Surfaces.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Termin8Anakin on June 12, 2003, 05:31:01 PM: ARRGH!
I don't compute any of this!
Um...uh...you're under arrest!

bzzZZZZ!
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Ocarina Blue on June 13, 2003, 02:43:51 AM: I'm not a techno-whizz, but wouldn't graphical advancement stop as soon as perfectly round (at least to our eyes) polygons are created (and can be maintained with a reasonable ammount on screen at once)? After that, surley there is really only insane ammonts of bump-mapping and high quality textures before graphics become to games what special effects are to movies?
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: PIAC on June 13, 2003, 02:59:06 AM: graphics atained perfection in 1994 with super metroid, its a scientific fact!
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: manunited4eva22 on June 13, 2003, 03:36:11 AM: That and real time ray tracing would make them look like movie graphics.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Termin8Anakin on June 13, 2003, 03:47:44 AM: man, that would be the day huh?

The next thing after there is no more imrovements left in graphics is to up the AI until it is 'perfect'.
Then, we will all die, Matrix style.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: bmcg69 on June 13, 2003, 09:06:37 AM: If you really want to know what the graphics will look like, click on this http://www.stalker-game.com/index_eng.html and go to the gallery. All I can say is, WOW!
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: rodtod on June 16, 2003, 10:38:57 AM: The only way we would ever achieve "life-like" graphics would be if we were to hook ourselves up to a VR unit starting at birth, and never know what the outside world looks like. Then, to us, "life" would be what we see in VR. We wouldn't know any better.

Very Matrix-like, Termin8Anakin.

I think we're going in the wrong direction when it comes to gaming graphics. Why should we try to simulate real-world graphics, when the real world is around us to begin with? I think graphics should be an effective medium of a designer's vision, and nothing more. Would you rather have uber-realism, or something that isn't possible in real life? Something that human imagination can come up with, but isn't physically available in this reality.

That's my $0.02
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Round Eye on June 16, 2003, 12:39:30 PM: The next graphics will be 3D holograms projected into the middle of our living rooms. And the most popular game will be 'Darth Vader Lightsaber Duel.' Lamps will be breaking all across North America.

Help me Obi wan, you our only hope...
Help me Obi wan, you our only hope...
Help me Obi wan, you our only hope...
Help me Obi wan, you our only hope...

*smack*

Stupid R2 unit.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Termin8Anakin on June 16, 2003, 02:36:14 PM: Hahahahahaha!
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: StRaNgE on June 16, 2003, 08:26:28 PM: those stalker images are mind blowing you should all go right away and see them.

i'd be more then happy if all games looked like that or the cut sceens from resident evil remake.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Termin8Anakin on June 17, 2003, 01:39:17 AM: what stalker images?
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Round Eye on June 17, 2003, 04:27:25 AM: Yes, I think I would be very happy if games looked like Stalker...

For awhile.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Termin8Anakin on June 18, 2003, 03:42:49 AM: what's stalker?
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Tael on June 18, 2003, 04:01:32 PM: Termin8Anakin - In bmcg69's earlier post, a link was posted to the S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Oblivion Lost website. If you don't feel like looking back through the thread for it, just click here.
Title: RE: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: Termin8Anakin on June 19, 2003, 01:40:43 AM: Oh those. I saw those. They are bloody awesome.
Title: What will Graphics Look like???//
Post by: ThePerm on July 09, 2003, 09:17:03 PM: meh, those graphics arent impressive. like iv been saying lowe end games will look like highend gamecube titles or maybe higher like current higher end pc games.