On this episode: 3DS remorse, Wii U impressions, another Mario mod, and a very memorable Listener Mail segment. Plus: another RetroActive!
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/31509
Ladies and gentlemen, we present the return of... Jon Lindemann. It's good to have him back after a couple of weeks when he was pulled away from the show against his wishes. Jon gets the ball rolling with his thoughts on Muramasa: The Demon Blade, Gran Turismo PSP, and his disappointment with the 3DS lineup in 2012. Jonny follows with a report on his visit to the Wii U Experience in Denver, which is very much reminiscent of the old Cube Clubs and features many notable Wii U demos from E3. But will it convince Nintendo fans who still don't know the price, release date, or launch lineup? James doesn't have the answer, but he does have wrap-up thoughts on Rhythm Thief, which is pretty short (but maybe pretty long for a narrative rhythm game). Guillaume completes the set with his continuing trek through New Super Mario Bros. 2 and cautious optimism over the demo for a fan mod called Super Mario Galaxy 2.5, which is still a long way from completion.
The show only gets more passionate in the latter half, as we do some much-needed catching up on Listener Mail. The first letter is on violence and games, with a particular focus on other mainstream activities that seem to escape the constant charges of negative influence on the minds of babes and loonies. We also go deep into emails about must-have interface features and Nintendo's abandonment of motion control with Wii U. In all, it's probably one of the most intense and stimulating Listener Mail segments we've had in a while! You can help make it happen again soon by submitting your own questions for the RFN crew.
In the outro, Jonny has a surprise announcement: the next RetroActive is starting immediately, and the theme is Kirby's 20th anniversary! You've got less than two weeks to vote on which Kirby game we should collectively play and discuss, so get to it before you forget! Voting is quick and easy -- and if you're not sure which game to support, look for comments in the poll thread that might help.
But I still think pointer controls make minute adjustment to your aim much easier.
With the Wii U GamePad, you could use dual analog for most movement and broad aiming, and use the pointer for fine adjustments. Just sayin'.The GamePad isn't great for pointer usage for the reasons I gave on the show. James' example was good: you wouldn't make a gun in the shape of a sourcing rod.
Sum it up. Dual analog was the best they could do at the time. Mouse/Wii Pointer far better.
Ooooh, brood. I disagree on the Classic controller's analogue sticks not being top-of-the-line...compared to the other guys' analogue sticks.Sum it up. Dual analog was the best they could do at the time. Mouse/Wii Pointer far better.
And I will always fight you on that point, especially since the Classic Controller's analog sticks aren't exactly top-of-the-line compared to the PS3 and 360 controllers' analog sticks.
Nope, have to disagree. ESPECIALLY for Sniping. Dual Analog = Junk. Mouse/Pointer Much Better. Now there are a ton of Genres that may not be the case but, if it involves Aiming, Mouse/Pointer all the way. There will be exceptions but those are remarkably rare.Sum it up. Dual analog was the best they could do at the time. Mouse/Wii Pointer far better.
And I will always fight you on that point, especially since the Classic Controller's analog sticks aren't exactly top-of-the-line compared to the PS3 and 360 controllers' analog sticks.
There are things I like pointer controls for (such as rail shooters), but as someone who likes steady precision in his shot (particularly for sniping) I'll take the not-so-easily-screwed-up aim of the analog sticks any other time. Plus, I think the Wii proved rather conclusively that pointer control outright sucks for camera control in 3rd person games. ;)
Nope, have to disagree. ESPECIALLY for Sniping. Dual Analog = Junk. Mouse/Pointer Much Better. Now there are a ton of Genres that may not be the case but, if it involves Aiming, Mouse/Pointer all the way. There will be exceptions but those are remarkably rare.Sum it up. Dual analog was the best they could do at the time. Mouse/Wii Pointer far better.
And I will always fight you on that point, especially since the Classic Controller's analog sticks aren't exactly top-of-the-line compared to the PS3 and 360 controllers' analog sticks.
There are things I like pointer controls for (such as rail shooters), but as someone who likes steady precision in his shot (particularly for sniping) I'll take the not-so-easily-screwed-up aim of the analog sticks any other time. Plus, I think the Wii proved rather conclusively that pointer control outright sucks for camera control in 3rd person games. ;)
Tell me in your own word during that play through what were you actually doing with the controls? Where you doing gunplay, melee fighting,moving, conquering the mountain, interacting with the environment? Give it to me in percentages.Nope, have to disagree. ESPECIALLY for Sniping. Dual Analog = Junk. Mouse/Pointer Much Better. Now there are a ton of Genres that may not be the case but, if it involves Aiming, Mouse/Pointer all the way. There will be exceptions but those are remarkably rare.Sum it up. Dual analog was the best they could do at the time. Mouse/Wii Pointer far better.
And I will always fight you on that point, especially since the Classic Controller's analog sticks aren't exactly top-of-the-line compared to the PS3 and 360 controllers' analog sticks.
There are things I like pointer controls for (such as rail shooters), but as someone who likes steady precision in his shot (particularly for sniping) I'll take the not-so-easily-screwed-up aim of the analog sticks any other time. Plus, I think the Wii proved rather conclusively that pointer control outright sucks for camera control in 3rd person games. ;)
Hold your mouse in the air for hours at a time with the mouse only actually working 4/5 of the time you need it to and 2 times as heavy, & we'll see how you like pointer devices. :P: But hey, at least when you use a mouse, you have a hard surface beneath your hand and gravity in your favor. Plus, you have a keyboard for as many commands as you might need. I prefer the tactile feel and force feedback of a controller over the sterile mouse & keyboard, but I can respect that control method even if I don't like it.
In dual analog games, I can shoot w/ great precision over long distances in just about any given game. In pointer control games, I can barely hit something with precision from medium distance (which is why one of the first things I did in Metroid Prime 3 was turn the lock-on aiming back on, where it belongs). There are just too many quirks to pointer aiming for my tastes, especially if I actually want to relax while I play these games.
Bear in mind, I just spend 10 hours playing Cursed Mountain to completion, so I've just seen just about every way the Wiimote can FAIL in a given gaming situation. So yeah, I may be just a tad bit bitter having just seen a decent experience destroyed by the Wiimote. ;)
Tell me in your own word during that play through what were you actually doing with the controls? Where you doing gunplay, melee fighting,moving, conquering the mountain, interacting with the environment? Give it to me in percentages.
So you can honestly tell me with a straight face you prefered RE4 GC over RE4 Wii.
which is why one of the first things I did in Metroid Prime 3 was turn the lock-on aiming back on, where it belongs
The backing music during Now Playing stopped for a few seconds.Indeed. Jon read that line really low but really weird and that was my attempt to keep that in while not amplifying his voice (which would have missed the point) and not have the music drown him out.
I believe it was to allow the sultry tones of The Lindemann to take centre stage. I'm fine with that.
Sounds like most of your problems wouldn't have been fixed with Dual Analog controls but with using buttons instead of gestures.Tell me in your own word during that play through what were you actually doing with the controls? Where you doing gunplay, melee fighting,moving, conquering the mountain, interacting with the environment? Give it to me in percentages.
I don't think I could give it to you in percentages (the balance of the game changes so dramatically over the course of the game), but Cursed Mountain is essentially a 3rd person shooter at its core, more Silent Hill than modern Resident Evil, with elements of the Fatal Frame series. You're
- running through 3D environments w/ an auto-camera
- scaling mountain walls (using remote & nunchuk waggling to speed the process up)
- occasionally pushing spirits away at close range with waggle
- blasting spirits with energy from ice your ice pick from a fixed 3rd person perspective with the Wiimote pointer (the Nunchuk stick controlling the camera). So yeah, combat is largely 3rd person shooter with enemies that like to teleport around and sneak up on you, necessitating a lot of camera turning.
- performing finishers on enemies using a series of motion control gestures that are finicky at best due to how the game reads them (using the IR sensor rather than the gyroscopes, which the game never tells you).
- performing similar gestures on symbols in the environment to release seals.
- using the Wiimote to "balance" your way across a handful of small "beams" in the environment (which is actually pretty simple, so it's not really an issue compared to the nightmare it is in Skyward Sword).
- If you have the Wiimote speaker turned on (I didn't, except once to test this), you get radio messages and "climber's logs" out of the speaker, which sound like crap because the Wiimote speaker is such.QuoteSo you can honestly tell me with a straight face you prefered RE4 GC over RE4 Wii.
No, I definitely prefer the Wii version there, but it's also a game where enemies move extremely slowly so it's easy to line up your shot. It's also a game where you CAN'T move while aiming so there wouldn't be the usual benefits to dual stick control. I also greatly prefer having an actual reticule on-screen to a laser sight.
One of these days, actually, I'm going to get to playing Resident Evil 5 on my PS3 with the Move. I'm curious to see how that game plays with pointer control considering that was a dual analog shooter originally.
DBG? What does that even refer to?The backing music during Now Playing stopped for a few seconds.Indeed. Jon read that line really low but really weird and that was my attempt to keep that in while not amplifying his voice (which would have missed the point) and not have the music drown him out.
I believe it was to allow the sultry tones of The Lindemann to take centre stage. I'm fine with that.
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Also, this is from Twitter Convo, It doesn't help that you are essential holding the controller above your head to play. I mean if you want to lay in bed and play games fine just adjust the sensor bar to be where your going to be.
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Also, this is from Twitter Convo, It doesn't help that you are essential holding the controller above your head to play. I mean if you want to lay in bed and play games fine just adjust the sensor bar to be where your going to be.
:Q :confused;
You can use a mouse. You don't need the Pointer pointing at the TV. You should always adjust you environment to suit your needs if you can. This is much like putting the toilet paper where you have to stand up walk 2 steps to get it from the toilet....
Also, this is from Twitter Convo, It doesn't help that you are essential holding the controller above your head to play. I mean if you want to lay in bed and play games fine just adjust the sensor bar to be where your going to be.
:Q :confused;
I was telling him on Twitter that the way my situation is at my house, my game consoles are set up in my bedroom with everything sitting on a metal desk with glass shelves. As I tend to play massively-long adventure games or RPGs the most, my most common way to play them is lying right down on my bed, with the TV angled to face me (the sensor bar sitting on the edge of the desk in front of the TV at the same angle). That, to me, is the most comfortable way to play games, and it's where I'm most relaxed.
To play pointer or motion control-based games with this setup, I have to elevate my arm at roughly a 30 degree angle and keep that arm held up for more or less the duration of the game. Otherwise, I just have to play sitting straight up or lie at an angle where my right arm is propping the rest of my body up at an angle (which is coincidentally how I type), which is not altogether unusual for Wii games. Either way, it's not a pleasant experience for me playing these types of games. By contrast, I can play games with a traditional controller pretty much any way I want. I can play them lying down and with my arms at rest. I could move the sensor bar somewhere lower or more convenient to point, but then it wouldn't be near the thing I'm supposed to be pointing AT (the TV) and that kind of defeats the point of a pointer device. :P: You pretty much just proved my point, Ceric. ;)
If I have to change the entire orientation of my room and my furniture to make these games work better, they obviously have disadvantages compared to my usual playing style. There are certain advantages and a certain appeal to motion controlled games, but the vast majority of the time I'll take the way of experiencing them where I can just relax and enjoy the experience. It's just personal preference.
With the Wii U GamePad, you could use dual analog for most movement and broad aiming, and use the pointer for fine adjustments. Just sayin'.
Or maybe I'm just using one unusual circumstance to justify my position, even when it's hardly the norm. You decide.
DBG? What does that even refer to?The backing music during Now Playing stopped for a few seconds.Indeed. Jon read that line really low but really weird and that was my attempt to keep that in while not amplifying his voice (which would have missed the point) and not have the music drown him out.
I believe it was to allow the sultry tones of The Lindemann to take centre stage. I'm fine with that.
i thought it was a comedic pause because he was mumbling
The Listener Mail question wasn't about whether dual analog is better or worse than pointer controls; our discussion devolved into that at times (mostly between Guillaume and Jon), and I'm a little sad to see the Talkback comments mostly focused on that silly debate. As I literally said on the show, people have their own preferences, and I hope both options will be supported by Wii U games. No, developers won't be forced to support one or the other. Some won't bother. What exactly do you propose is the solution to this quandary? Nintendo could force developers to include pointer support, but I think this would just result in lazy implementation of the feature, or games just not being released on the system.It was the hottest topic in the Episode.