Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: ejamer on June 25, 2012, 12:12:38 PM
Title: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: ejamer on June 25, 2012, 12:12:38 PM
Nintendo Power recently released a list of their favorite Wii games, breaking down games into the following categories:
The Must-Haves:
Donkey Kong Country Returns
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Little King's Story
Mario Kart Wii
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Rayman Origins
Super Mario Galaxy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
Xenoblade Chronicles
The Should-Haves:
Bully: Scholarship Edition
Dead Space: Extraction
Kirby's Return to Dream Land
Klonoa
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
No More Heroes 2
Punch-Out!!
Sonic Colors
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
The Nice-To-Haves:
Disney's Epic Mickey
GoldenEye 007
The House of the Dead: Overkill
Kirby's Epic Yarn
MadWorld
Metroid: Other M
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Rhythm Heaven Fever
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Wow, that's lame. Hardly anything worth playing! And it gets worse. When a recent NeoGAF thread (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479734 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479734)) started looking at the list, people noticed a few of their favorite titles weren't included. Obviously opinions will differ about which games belonged where on the list, but people mentioned the following games as being key omissions: From the NeoGAF forums:
A Boy and his Blob
Batman The Brave and the Bold
Battalion Wars 2
Bit.Trip Complete
Boom Blox series
Call of Duty series
Cursed Mountain
de Blob series
Deadly Creatures
Dokapon Kingdom
Dragon Quest Swords
Endless Ocean series
Excite Truck
Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn
Geometry Wars Galaxies
Mario Party series
Mario Strikers Charged
Metal Slug Antholgy
Monster Hunter Tri
Muramasa The Demon Blade
Mushroom Men
No More Heroes
Okami
Pikmin NPC series
Pro Evolution Soccer series
Red Steel 2
Resident Evil 4
Resident Evil Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles
Rune Factory Frontier
Samurai Shodown Anthology
Shiren the Wanderer
Super Paper Mario
The Last Story
Tiger Woods PGA Tour series
Trauma Team/Center series
Wario Land Shake It!
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Wii Fit Plus
Wii Sports
Wii Sports Resort
(some others... but I either got tired of writing everything down, didn't personally love the games as much as the people posting them, or decided to ignore the game because it wasn't released in all regions)
Anyway, no wonder the Wii was so poorly regarded this generation. There was just nothing worth playing.
Congrats to Nintendo Power for a pretty solid list of games, even if I personally don't think that Metroid Other M belongs up there with so many other great games available to take its place. While it's easy to nitpick about what I would've done differently, it's hard to argue against that games selected and this provides a nice look back at the console.
(PS - How many of those games have you purchased or at least played? I think that I've got 68 from this list... and many of the missing games are on my "buy eventually" list.)
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 25, 2012, 12:37:00 PM
Galaxy 2 being on the Should-Haves and not the Must-Haves completely invalidates that list.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: shingi_70 on June 25, 2012, 12:43:40 PM
Is rayman Origins a must have game when there are superior versions elsewhere?
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 25, 2012, 12:50:11 PM
Of those listed I counted 21 which I own. I also have others which were not on that list, but are still great games such as Godfather.
The issue I have with Wii games in general is I don't like motion controls. Games which work with the classic controller I have no problem with. I'm not a graphics freak and I don't mind at all if games aren't in HD, but I absolutely hate the wiimote as a controller. In many cases games are made tougher than they need to be simply because you have to fight with the controls to get them to do what you want them to.
Although many of these games listed are Wii exclusive, some of them are multiplatform, and so if you have a PS360 and a Wii there's not really much reason to get the Wii version. Not only will the graphics be better with the PS360 version, but you will also get to use a traditional controller which actually responds and does what you want it to do without having to fight with it. If something like Goldeneye 007 were Wii exclusive it would be a no-brainer, but since they also brought it to the PS360 why would you want the inferior Wii version? The same goes for the COD series, Rayman Origins, and all the other multiplatform titles on that list. Yes, they are awesome games, and yes they are on the Wii, but the Wii version is always inferior.
There are a lot of these games I don't own yet which are on my wishlist, but I am reluctant to buy them simply because I have a feeling they are going to be remade and enhanced for the Wii U somewhere down the road. HD graphics would be a nice enhancement for a Wii U upgraded version, but what I really hope for is improved controls. So I think it pays to be patient with many of these games, because if we wait long enough we will see them return in a better form.
The Wii games which are most worth buying are the ones which are 1) exclusive to the console, and 2) ones which are fairly niche and unlikely to be re-released in an enhanced form in the future. If a game isn't exclusive to the Wii that means a better version exists now, and unless the game is really niche then it would pay to just wait because there will probably a better way of getting it in the future.
That said, I think something like Cursed Mountain epitomizes the sort of Wii game people should buy. On the one hand its Wii exclusive, so there's currently no other way to get it, and on the other hand it seems to have sold poorly so its doubtful its ever going to be re-released in a better form. Its also cheap and apparently a great game. So in every sense it fits the bill for a must have Wii game. But something like Donkey Kong Country Returns even though its a great game, the controls suck and since its a 1st party game and one which has sold well I would bet money that Nintendo will re-release it in the future, so unless you want to play it right now you might as well just wait.
But yeah, Cursed Mountain and the games of high calibur but poor selling like it are definitely a no-brainer to invest in. We will likely never see them again in any form on any console, so it makes sense to get them now while we can.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: marty on June 25, 2012, 01:15:53 PM
This kind of list really just underpins the "good for a Wii game" kind of excuses that always crop up. A lot of these games would also fit on a list of "games that would have been a lot better without waggle and/or with a right analog stick (some of which are on other systems)"
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Ymeegod on June 25, 2012, 01:22:26 PM
Own all but two on Nintendo's list: Rhythm Heaven Fever and Sonic Colors? And I own 21ish on NaF list. Wanted to try Curse Mountain but can never find the damn thing.
And I played Truma Team but I skipped the first two Truma Centers.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 25, 2012, 01:29:53 PM
This kind of list really just underpins the "good for a Wii game" kind of excuses that always crop up. A lot of these games would also fit on a list of "games that would have been a lot better without waggle and/or with a right analog stick (some of which are on other systems)"
Most of the games on that list, at least the ones that I've played, aren't just "good for the Wii;" they're good games period. And outside of DKCR, which I know for a fact to be better without waggle having played it that way, I can't think of a game on that list that would be that much better with different controls. There are certainly games on the system that fall into that category, but most of what's on this list doesn't.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: marty on June 25, 2012, 01:44:50 PM
This kind of list really just underpins the "good for a Wii game" kind of excuses that always crop up. A lot of these games would also fit on a list of "games that would have been a lot better without waggle and/or with a right analog stick (some of which are on other systems)"
Most of the games on that list, at least the ones that I've played, aren't just "good for the Wii;" they're good games period. And outside of DKCR, which I know for a fact to be better without waggle having played it that way, I can't think of a game on that list that would be that much better with different controls. There are certainly games on the system that fall into that category, but most of what's on this list doesn't.
okay, of all the games i played on that list, most of them were hurt by waggle and or lack of decent camera controls, you're free to feel differently.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: ejamer on June 25, 2012, 02:02:19 PM
... If something like Goldeneye 007 were Wii exclusive it would be a no-brainer, but since they also brought it to the PS360 why would you want the inferior Wii version? ... Yes, they are awesome games, and yes they are on the Wii, but the Wii version is always inferior. ...
This is a fair opinion, but I can't agree that Wii versions have always been inferior.
Until recently, motion/pointer controls for Golf and Soccer and Tennis games have typically made Wii versions play better than their HD counterparts. Preferred control schemes will often vary, but for any FPS title I'd take pointer controls over dual-analog in a heartbeat (and mouse/keyboard over pointer controls just as fast). There is also the whole timing issue - HD re-releases of great Wii games won't necessarily phase me in the same way that Batman Arkham City on Wii U won't get me nearly as excited as when those games were first release.
It's also worth noting that the number of exclusives here is impressive - with many games that aren't exclusive being either the best release available or coming out on Wii years ahead of other platforms.
I guess the point is that when I look at that list, I see a lot of great software. Period. Some games have since been improved, and some could have been improved. But there are a lot of games worth playing and a lot of games that still can't be experienced elsewhere.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Stogi on June 25, 2012, 02:24:03 PM
"I guess the point is that when I look at that list, I see a lot of great software. Period. Some games have since been improved, and some could have been improved. But there are a lot of games worth playing and a lot of games that still can't be experienced elsewhere."
This. I look up at that list and see hours of my day "wasted". I will agree that the Wii doesn't have those games that keeps me coming back to play it (in fact, my number one game for the Wii right now is Double Dragon for the NES -- I will beat you one day, you son of a bitch). But there are so many good games up there that I don't even have. For instance, despite PRO's incessant love for BW2, I still haven't played it.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 25, 2012, 02:24:08 PM
It is only $8.99 brand new with free super saver shipping, and this is the Limited Editiion of the game which comes in a steel book case (like Metroid Prime Trilogy does) along with the game's soundtrack and a "making of" DVD.
You can also get the regular edition of the game for $9.96, but it is a dollar more and doesn't have the cool extras so there's no reason not to get the Limited Edition.
Everyone reading this thread should get this game, and I conveniently provided links to both versions of it so you can't use the "I can't find it" excuse.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: ejamer on June 25, 2012, 02:37:36 PM
(No international shipping makes it tougher for some to get the limited edition of Cursed Mountain, but it's worth the effort in my opinion. I was able to replace my normal version with the limited edition by trading games on Goozex. Sadly that site has seen better days, but hopefully Canadians can find other ways to track down the game.)
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Ian Sane on June 25, 2012, 03:05:39 PM
The Wii is not a worthless system and it has some absolutely amazing games. It just didn't get enough support to really work well as my "main" system. Finding a cheap one to get some of the must-play classics would be worth it to any serious gamer.
Like Chozo, I hate motion control. It typically does nothing put make what would normally be a button press take MORE effort to perform with LESS precision. DKC Returns, NSMB Wii and the Super Mario Galaxy games fall just short of greatness because their controls suck. They all have waggle that you cannot turn off. As much as I enjoyed those games it was impossible to not have some sort of "ARRRGH!" moment of frustation in each play session. Every time I play I feel like I have to fight the controls and kind of try to ignore those problems. If I have to make a conscious effort to ignore a sucky part of game, it's not that great of a game. And what really sucks is that I used to associate Nintendo with great controls. Nintendo games didn't have loosey-goosey **** controls. They were accurate and precise and intuitive. On the Wii (and sometimes on the DS) that went out the window in favour of gimmicky nonsense.
I'm loving Xenoblade and a big reason for it is that it doesn't control like ****. It has no control issues whatsoever (and it's a new IP, and it doesn't cater to casuals in any way).
Another problem with the Wii is that motion control is ALL it has going for it... and I hate it. So the Wii is more like the Gamecube had a ten year life cycle, only Nintendo ran out of ideas for it five years ago. I don't need two Gamecube Mario Karts or SSBs. There just isn't enough of anything NEW they could do with those ideas except graph on horrible controls. I can use normal controls for those games but then how does this really differ from the Cube games?
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: ejamer on June 25, 2012, 04:04:37 PM
... Another problem with the Wii is that motion control is ALL it has going for it... and I hate it. ...
Many people lump motion controls and pointer controls into the same package. While I'm ambivalent at best to motion controls that were all too often pushed into games haphazardly, I'm a huge fan of pointer controls when well implemented. There are a handful of Wii games that use them to excellent effect and couldn't be played elsewhere until Sony Move implemented a similar effect.
So yeah... unique controls and exclusive software probably is all that Wii had going for it. Really is a shame that waggle was so commonly seen though.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: nickmitch on June 25, 2012, 04:07:27 PM
Some games, like RE4, were better with pointer controls and not necessarily waggle. In fact, I'm shocked that one didn't make the list at all since it's one of probably very few examples of the Wii version being the best version of a game.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Louieturkey on June 25, 2012, 04:43:32 PM
Some games, like RE4, were better with pointer controls and not necessarily waggle. In fact, I'm shocked that one didn't make the list at all since it's one of probably very few examples of the Wii version being the best version of a game.
Unless you count the HD remake for the PS3 which also has the pointer controls.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Louieturkey on June 25, 2012, 04:44:42 PM
It is only $8.99 brand new with free super saver shipping, and this is the Limited Editiion of the game which comes in a steel book case (like Metroid Prime Trilogy does) along with the game's soundtrack and a "making of" DVD.
You can also get the regular edition of the game for $9.96, but it is a dollar more and doesn't have the cool extras so there's no reason not to get the Limited Edition.
Everyone reading this thread should get this game, and I conveniently provided links to both versions of it so you can't use the "I can't find it" excuse.
Done, I bought the LE version. I had looked at it before and just didn't want to buy a Wii game. Your endorsement made me want to get it and at that price, I cannot pass it up. Now I just need to hook my Wii up again to be able to play it. Or maybe I'll wait til I get a Wii U and just play it on that.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: broodwars on June 25, 2012, 04:45:51 PM
Some games, like RE4, were better with pointer controls and not necessarily waggle. In fact, I'm shocked that one didn't make the list at all since it's one of probably very few examples of the Wii version being the best version of a game.
Unless you count the HD remake for the PS3 which also has the pointer controls.
No, it doesn't. From what I've read in reviews, the PS3 "HD" version of RE4 does NOT have Move support.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: MagicCow64 on June 25, 2012, 05:48:21 PM
Interesting to see Cursed Mountain get some attention. I picked it up used for a few bucks a little while back out of vague curiosity. The setting and Buddhist themes are stand-outs, but the gameplay itself it sadly kind of dreadfully repetitive. I lost interest after getting about halfway through. Worth giving a spin for the horror game enthusiast, but I can't recommend it for general audiences.
Little King's Story is one of the best games released on any console at any time.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 25, 2012, 08:25:32 PM
I think the problem with your argument is your list of games completely invalidates it.
You have listed 20 Must have games that many are exclusive to the Wii, and another 20ish Should have games, many are exclusive, and should honestly be up on the must have. And still you left some great and amazing games off the list.
Basically, the Wii isn't a failure. It has produced some great games that are quite enjoyable, changed the gaming console market as we know it...and helped bring Nintendo back into the minds of media and public as still relevant.
Yes, the Wii has been lacking games for the last year perhaps 2. But even still great games have come out to play. And it is important to realize not everyone buys a new game every month even. So that list of games alone gets you through at least 2-3 years of gaming.
People that want to attack the Wii do it needlessly and pointlessly. We all know the Wii's strengths and weaknesses...and we don't fight and argue if it was successful or not.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 26, 2012, 09:12:50 AM
How did you not pick up on the fact that that title was sarcastic?
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: ejamer on June 26, 2012, 09:20:46 AM
I think the problem with your argument is your list of games completely invalidates it. ...
A few quick clarifications:
not my list - it was created by Nintendo Power, with the additional entries being games that people took time to speak out and say "hey, they missed one of my favorites"
I wasn't really attacking the Wii, the title was just making fun of the common memes that Wii failed and is ignored and dusty because it lacks games
my intent here was to list a bunch of great games and maybe encourage people to play something they might have missed out on
There wasn't really any "argument" presented. It's just a big list of games, with some of my favorites (like the excellent but often forgotten Dawn of Discovery) not even included yet.
Interesting to see Cursed Mountain get some attention. I picked it up used for a few bucks a little while back out of vague curiosity. The setting and Buddhist themes are stand-outs, but the gameplay itself it sadly kind of dreadfully repetitive. I lost interest after getting about halfway through. Worth giving a spin for the horror game enthusiast, but I can't recommend it for general audiences. ...
I agree that Cursed Mountain isn't an easy recommendation for everyone. It feels pretty old-school and will really only appeal to a small segment of the market who like the classic survival horror genre. However... it's the type of game that a small set of people will enjoy immensely, which probably makes it worth trying given the low price. (The setting and atmosphere are pretty sweet too!)
In some ways, it reminds me of Mushroom Men - another Wii title that is probably best described as "limited" but that I enjoyed a great deal and happily played to completion.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Tamazoid on June 26, 2012, 10:20:15 AM
Pfft where's:
Cod4 Cod5 Cod6 Cod7 Cod8 Halo 3 Halo ODST Halo Reach Halo Anniversary Gears of War Gears of War 2 Gears of War 3 Forza
Xbox shits all over this list.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 26, 2012, 10:41:59 AM
I know you're joking, but Call of Duty 4, 5, 7 and 8 are on the NeoGAF list. Also, I would love to see something like Forza on a Nintendo system.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: lolmonade on June 26, 2012, 11:06:07 AM
One thing I believed when the Wii came out was that companies like Rockstar would come out with new GTAs for the system, but just use the PS2 engine to create alternate versions that PS3/Xbox 360 got.
Boy was I mistaken.
Interesting you come to a Nintendo-Centric website starting a topic like this. Most people here would agree with you that the Wii had several fantastic games making the system worthwhile to own.
It's just that most people here also are disappointed that they had to purchase a second console to get all the 3rd party games the Wii was incapable of running.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Evan_B on June 26, 2012, 11:36:43 AM
Another problem with the Wii is that motion control is ALL it has going for it... and I hate it. So the Wii is more like the Gamecube had a ten year life cycle, only Nintendo ran out of ideas for it five years ago. I don't need two Gamecube Mario Karts or SSBs. There just isn't enough of anything NEW they could do with those ideas except graph on horrible controls. I can use normal controls for those games but then how does this really differ from the Cube games?
Nah. Mario Kart Wii is awesome, especially because of the Wii Wheel. If you can't enjoy that game for that reason, I feel a great sadness for you.
I agree that SMG's motion controls (well, the Luna Spin) felt tacked on, but there's plenty of other examples in that game that work really well.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on June 26, 2012, 11:55:28 AM
I would disagree with their list.
Shattered Memories Zack & Wiki Galaxy 2 Punch Out!! Monster Hunter Tri No More Heroes No More Heroes 2 Muramasa Okami Warioland: Shake It
My tastes are perhaps not reflective of everyone's but for me each of these titles is a must-own. I'm willing to acknowledge, however, that I might simply likes these games more than most. However, In what universe is Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Okami not must-owns? That's just bonkers.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2012, 01:21:12 PM
I agree that SMG's motion controls (well, the Luna Spin) felt tacked on, but there's plenty of other examples in that game that work really well.
Aside from the Luna Spin the only other motion control I can think of in SMG is that unplayable broken piece-of-**** manta ray level. Surely you're not suggesting that THAT worked really well.
Motion control is like this idea that sounds really great in theory and that it would inspire all sorts of cool ideas. But then when it comes time to make a game that uses it it's like "uhhhhhh..." Wii Sports has to be scaled down because you can't really swing the remote and have some way to move the character. You think of epic sword battles but then realize to provide the proper accuracy the player would need to know how to fence in real life. Ah, but you could simplify it but then it's basically mapping gestures which is really no different from a button press, except less precise. Waggle is Nintendo thinking that Mario will benefit greatly from motion control, sitting down to make the game and then realizing that it really inspires no new ideas. So they tack on a "shake" that would normally be a button press and hope no one notices because aside from this controller they really added nothing new to their new console.
I think the biggest issue is movement. You can swing a sword or a baseball bat but how do you move? It's not like you walk around on a treadmill. Kinect has it even worse because you can't add any other control elements. The whole concept is limited like a lightgun. In theory a lightgun seems perfect - you shoot at the screen. How intuitive! Except how do I move my character around? Uh, I can't and that's why lightgun games are just glorified shooting galleries and FPS games that use more conventional controls have fulfilled the concept better than lightgun games ever have. These concepts are too limited and that's why we got so much waggle and shovelware crap on the Wii.
Title: Re: Why Wii is a failure: there are no games worth playing
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 26, 2012, 01:32:48 PM
Some games, like RE4, were better with pointer controls and not necessarily waggle. In fact, I'm shocked that one didn't make the list at all since it's one of probably very few examples of the Wii version being the best version of a game.
Unless you count the HD remake for the PS3 which also has the pointer controls.
No, it doesn't. From what I've read in reviews, the PS3 "HD" version of RE4 does NOT have Move support.
Really? Guess I won't be buying that one then. Worthless without Move controls I think.
