Post by: Byron on May 19, 2003, 11:52:01 AM
51 million PS2
13 million XBoxes
9.4 million GCs.
I thought IGN said GC was winning by 1.5 million?
Post by: AERO on May 19, 2003, 12:00:32 PM
Post by: Fammy2000 on May 19, 2003, 12:02:49 PM
Quote
According to Sony data, there are 51m PS2 machines in homes worldwide, with Xbox sales on track to reach 13m by next month and Nintendo's GameCube lagging with 9.4m.
Okay, first, there are 51 Million PS2 in homes. That's sold and delivered.
Xbox sales on track to be 13 million by next month (we can assume end of June).
Nintendo lagging with 9.4 million. Doesn't say currently or the end of next month, but we will assume the same as XBox.
Notice the trick Sony is already pulling. Confusion.
Second, this is "Sony data". Sony doesn't know what Nintendo and Microsoft sold. Likewise with the other two. Any sales data not from a reputable third-party should be treated with skepticism.
Post by: Vanilla Thunder on May 19, 2003, 12:05:01 PM
Post by: AERO on May 19, 2003, 12:10:13 PM
Anyway for the sake of argument I would tend to believe the order goes PS2, Xbox, GC. Simply by looking around to see whats being played, and what store set ups look like.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 19, 2003, 12:16:08 PM
But fi Nintendo's right, kick ass.
Post by: Mingesium on May 19, 2003, 12:23:28 PM
Here are the facts:
Sony shipped 51.2 million by March 2003.
Nintendo shipped 9.4 million by March 2003.
Microsoft shipped 8.1 million by Dec. 2002.
Microsoft initial projected 9 million to 12 million by the end of June 2003. I have no idea where Sony got that 13 million number. If the 13 million is Microsofts new target, then they will miss it. Microsoft should be around 9.5 million to 10 million shipped by the end of June.
Post by: Biohazard on May 19, 2003, 12:31:20 PM
Sales are sales, I think you mouseclicker would agree with me on this.
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 19, 2003, 12:43:19 PM
END OF STORY
Post by: Biohazard on May 19, 2003, 12:48:11 PM
Great post, I think that should be the ideal mind of the gamer everywhere. No one should care about sales sides the developers and publishers.
Post by: Zeth on May 19, 2003, 01:10:50 PM
Post by: CHEN on May 19, 2003, 01:14:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Biohazard
*high fives Grey Ninja
Great post, I think that should be the ideal mind of the gamer everywhere. No one should care about sales sides the developers and publishers.
But that's just it, bigger userbase means more 3rd party support. I don't know about you, but I hated it when I knew that only the PS2 gets a Transformer G1 game. It's just not fair
Post by: Grey Ninja on May 19, 2003, 01:24:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: CHENQuote
Originally posted by: Biohazard
*high fives Grey Ninja
Great post, I think that should be the ideal mind of the gamer everywhere. No one should care about sales sides the developers and publishers.
But that's just it, bigger userbase means more 3rd party support. I don't know about you, but I hated it when I knew that only the PS2 gets a Transformer G1 game. It's just not fair
Is there anything wrong with OUR 3rd party support? We get an exclusive Final Fantasy, an exclusive Metal Gear, 3 exclusive Resident Evils, Killer7, pretty much every Sonic game ever made, an exclusive Phantasy Star Online, an exclusive Tales game, an exclusive Harvest Moon, and to top it all off, we get all kinds of 1st party support that other consoles simply don't get.
There's nothing wrong with our 3rd party support. Yes it does suck that we don't get PTO4, Shinobi, Silent Hill 3, Metal Gear Solid 3, Dragon Quest VIII, or my beloved Xenosaga *sniff*, but look around you. We get more than compensated for it.
Post by: EggyToast on May 19, 2003, 01:24:59 PM
Who cares if MS gets ahead if every gamecube owner has 3 times as many games as an Xbox owner?
Post by: Infernal Monkey on May 19, 2003, 01:31:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Zeth
...Why Sony would purposely lie about xbox selling more than gamecube?
Because Sony is infact, a company that produces donkeys. And Microsoft in all reality, need these donkeys as their staff. People don't dare test Windows or Office. OH NO! It's the donkeys.
And they like, mutate after a while, all the illegal operations cause their intestines to take a life of their own and transport them to garbage bin with guns.
Then they go on a rampage, and people are all like "AW NO A DONKEY WITH GUNS!"
And it runs into people and hurts their bum bums. So then, people fight back by buying McDonkey Burger with cheese from McDonalds, and they go "MMMM NUM NUM NUM" and it's really dry, but they don't care. They just buy a super mega hulk sized Coke.
Then they have to piss, and Nintendo are like, "Here's a toilet" and Microsoft go "NO! THAT'S OUR iLoo!"
So the consumer gets freaked out buy this and lets it rip. Then Sony comes in at the wrong time and gets pissed on, and they scream and go "YOU GOT URINE IN MY EYE SOCKET!"
So they throw unsold copies of Crash Bandicoot 56: Wrath of sequels at them and they totally die.
Holy moly crap bucket 3000, it's terrible.
So then Microsoft and Sony team up to take down Nintendo. They set up traps on the road and Nintendo's like, "MEEP MEEP" and they avoid the Acme traps.
So MS and Sony get annoyed. Annoyed, and tired. So they like to take a nap, and have potty breaks.
So yeah, that's why they lie.
Post by: Darc Requiem on May 19, 2003, 01:32:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mingesium
I love PR Spin.
Here are the facts:
Sony shipped 51.2 million by March 2003.
Nintendo shipped 9.4 million by March 2003.
Microsoft shipped 8.1 million by Dec. 2002.
Microsoft initial projected 9 million to 12 million by the end of June 2003. I have no idea where Sony got that 13 million number. If the 13 million is Microsofts new target, then they will miss it. Microsoft should be around 9.5 million to 10 million shipped by the end of June.
Interesting, well we know that the X-box has sold just over 530,000 units in the US this year according to TRSTS numbers but I wouldn't know what they sold in Europe and Japan. In Japan the X-box as of the end of March has barely sold 50,000 units if we go by Dengeki numbers. So the only way the X-box has hit the 13 million sold that Sony is claiming is if they have sold 4.3 million units in Europe since the end of last year. That is highly unlikely. The reason for the difference is simple Sony is full of it as usual. Sony doesn't even give the number of systems they've sold they always use the number of systems shipped. I can tell you for fact that at least 10 million of the 51.2 million Sony has shipped is still on the shelves.
Darc Requiem
Post by: highenergyboy on May 19, 2003, 02:11:16 PM
Post by: K_Icyfire on May 19, 2003, 02:39:27 PM
Post by: Nintendo Gamecube on May 19, 2003, 03:25:24 PM
Post by: egman on May 19, 2003, 04:10:26 PM
Post by: JoeFalco on May 19, 2003, 04:14:23 PM
Post by: jarob on May 19, 2003, 04:14:49 PM
People, Nintendo needs a large numnber of GameCubes out there. Yes, you should care.
Post by: JoeFalco on May 19, 2003, 04:19:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: jarob
When people say they don't care how many GameCubes have been sold it really bugs me. It better care or there will be no more Nintendo folks. Nintendo has already announced much lower profits than was expected. They need a big user base out there so they can sell games (were the profits are). More GameCubes sold = more games sold = more profits. Unless when people say this, they don't care if Nintendo makes hardware, but will be happy to buy N games for other machines? I much prefer Nintendo make hardware that having to buy several systems (like Sega).
People, Nintendo needs a large numnber of GameCubes out there. Yes, you should care.
No I should not. Yes, Nintendo needs to get more of its products out and sold. What am I going to do? Run out there madly and buy lots and lots of Nintendo products that I really don't need? (I'm sorry but I'm a more selective gamer than most) And sorry Jarob, I don't care to keep up with petty statistics like sales figures. I prefer to enjoy my Nintendo games...
Post by: Nintega on May 19, 2003, 04:29:18 PM
Post by: Ymeegod on May 19, 2003, 06:32:39 PM
Yeah, 13 million is 3 million to high unless it's shipped not sold. But I don't really think sony was trying to confuse anyone, think they just took 13 million as the "maxium" number for xboxes since MS themselves didn't release that number.
And yeah, Nintendo's 3rd party sales is greatly lower than the xbox's even though it's sale base is the same. It really doesn't look like that's going change anytime soon, GC owners buy Nintendo games (go figure :0 ).
-----------------------------------------------------
The PS2 is the mightly king and I don't think anybody at MS or Nintendo will disagree and right now it's all about "runner-up" and saving face.
Post by: PIAC on May 19, 2003, 08:05:00 PM
blargh, can PGC.com/forums have a speciall RANT ABOUT SALES FIGURES HERE thread :\
remember when the video game market used to be about the games?
Post by: greenwood on May 19, 2003, 08:14:44 PM
This is very big. Yeah, far too often the moron fanboys use installed base as a way of saying, "My system is better than yours!" and all that but this is very important because 3rd parties will stop making as many games for the GCN if it drops to 3rd. And that means less sales which equals less 3rd party support which equals less sales and so on. It's a cycle that we want no part of. We can't rely on Nintendo pulling a MS and paying for games.
Yeah, 3rd party support is spectacular...compared to the N64. But compared to the PS2 and Xbox it's lagging. You may not like a game but that doesn't mean no one likes it either. For instance, I think those music/rhythm games suck but I know there's GCN owners who'd love them and DDR-whatever could be one of a handful of titles that help sell a GCN to somebody. They might say, "I can play DDR...and Zelda...and Metroid...and Resident Evil...and Rayman! Sign me up!" But if 3rd parties start pulling games then that same person may say, "Well, I'll buy a PS2 because I can play DDR, Rayman, substitute Silent Hill for Resident Evil, and Dragon Warrior, and Xenosaga, and Prince of Persia."
PoP and Rayman are on the GCN now but what if they weren't? If you really wanted those game wouldn't that make your decision easier to buy a PS2? Or an Xbox?
Post by: KDR_11k on May 19, 2003, 08:45:46 PM
Post by: Mario on May 20, 2003, 12:28:35 AM
TOMATOES R TEH D0000MED!
Post by: Gamefreak on May 20, 2003, 12:54:39 AM
It's teh Megat0n!!!11!!
Post by: Byron on May 20, 2003, 01:53:36 AM
http://www.stanford.edu/~moreno/images/hwwwship.jpg
It clearly says those are WORLDWIDE SHIPPED numbers not sold ones.
Well thanks alot Yahoo for yellow journalism. Well it isn't as bad as the CNN one where Super Mario 64=Super Mario 3.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on May 20, 2003, 02:18:51 AM
- are many gaming stores carrying less and less Nintendo stuff?
- why does blockbuster have a nearly non existant section of gamecube titles while at the same time have 3 rows of x-box games?
- are third parties dropping support of the cube?
- would Sony make this up when it doesnt affect them at all, its like looking over your shoulder because you hear footsteps 14 miles away.
I wouldnt be suprised if these numbers are true. I know when I go into my local future shop or best buy, I see a lot more x-box products moving than gamecube.
Post by: JoeFalco on May 20, 2003, 07:11:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: greenwood
A lot of reasons why knowing sales figures is important.
Knowing sales figures are irrevelant to buying and playing games. Yes, 3rd party support will most likely go to the best company out there but good grief, you make it sound as if I am buying a car or making a career choice. If anything, I have faith that Nintendo will keep on making good games. I understand that if you want to play a certain game or type of game, you'll try to buy the system that will most likely have it. It's a tiring debate in your mind what sacrifices you want to make if you choose to stick with one system or two but knowing whether X-Box is beating Nintendo by a hundred or a thousand hardware purchases changes little.
About the stores thing I've been reading about, I've seen a pretty good selection among the stores I've been to. I usually don't have a problem finding what game I want for my system unless it's very popular at the moment and it's sold out.
Post by: nonjagged on May 20, 2003, 08:58:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
If Nintendo os so far ahead of Microsoft in sales as some here say, the why
- are many gaming stores carrying less and less Nintendo stuff?
- why does blockbuster have a nearly non existant section of gamecube titles while at the same time have 3 rows of x-box games?
Because Sony & Blockbuster have had a deal going on for years now. Hint 5 Blockbuster hire vouchers bundled with Sony deal. Nintendo's platform is not a set-top-box multi-media entertainment system therefore they have no reason to fight Sony's exclusive deal with Blockbuster because you cant watch DVD movies (which Blockbuster stock) on the Gamecube.
- are third parties dropping support of the cube?
They never where supporting the GCN, only some excluvie 3rd party support. The amount of 3rd party trash that has come out on ps2 and xbox is a bit of a joke. Even the PC platform is laughing at some of the generic 3rd party trash that comes out, and the Gamecube is fortunate it doesnt get every bit of the trash but rather exclusive or limited deals of the cream of the crop of 3rd parties.
- would Sony make this up when it doesnt affect them at all, its like looking over your shoulder because you hear footsteps 14 miles away.
Sony arrogantly hate Nintendo so vividly they would say anything to defame Nintendo.
I wouldnt be suprised if these numbers are true. I know when I go into my local future shop or best buy, I see a lot more x-box products moving than gamecube.
If the numbers where true, too bad Sony's console is way outdated in tech-specs and eg. Nintendo's console doesnt have every single 3rd party franchise Sony manages to buy-out for time-exclusive, but at least the Gamecube has superior graphics and framerates and loadtimes which in the end those users that get to play Gamecube games get to spend more time on realtime gameplay and less time on yawning with load-times or excessive FMV gimmicks to smooth out the dodgyness.
Just my opinion, which others may agree on.
Post by: Sea Dragon on May 20, 2003, 09:20:40 AM
Just like bands, if a company does nothing but repackage its older material and "remaster it", you know there's trouble. That's why innovation is so important, and why it's great to see new directions, like Eternal Darkness and Metroid Prime.
If I sink $150 into a system (The gamecube is the first console I've purchased in 15 years), I like to keep up with the overall flow of the company - what to expect, the direction the company is heading. This is influenced by sales. I don't really care about profit margins and assets to liability ratios and core fiscal competencies and all of that hoopa-joopa, but I do care about the overall health of a company, which is often expressed by sales figures.
Post by: highenergyboy on May 20, 2003, 10:29:14 AM
Quote
remember when the video game market used to be about the games?
Those times leading from the end of the SNES era all the way up to the N64's golden years were the good ol days and some of the best I had. Things were more simple back then where the only exposure you had to game sales were from commercials announcing the next four N64 games that achieved million seller status. That was all there was to it.
Then around the time Project Dolphin was announced this cursed console war debate was born and has just been sucking all the fun out of gaming ever since. No wonder my interest has been waning with every passing month. I still haven't gotten a Gamecube yet and have been procrastinating since the release of Eternal Darkness last summer. Heck, I even went so far as to preorder Wind Waker despite being Cubeless just so I wouldn't miss out on the bonus disk promotion. Now with this new Gameboy player offer, again I will still find myself holding out. I've had numerous opportunities to buy a Gamecube, but I always opted for something else like music CDs, posters or new components for my computer instead. That new promotion along with games like Rebel Strike and Resident Evil 4 will probably prove to be too much to pass up in the end but what about after the Gamecube's lifespan? I keep asking myself whether that same urge that prompted me to get a Gamecube will still be there for the next generation of consoles. I never imagined I would be asking myself this.
Post by: greenwood on May 20, 2003, 08:54:17 PM
I've said it before and I will keep saying it until it's beaten into the heads of people who don't get it. If the GCN slips into 3rd in worldwide user base more and more companies will cut support from the GCN. It's as simple as that. You may say, "Ah, it's irrelevant now, no games I care about are cut." but what happens in the future? Sega dropped their entire sports line on the GCN because of low sales. And why is that? Because the GCN is in 3rd place in NA. You may not have cared but I did. And there were others like me who also cared. NBA Jam 2004 was just cancelled, along with some other Acclaim games I can't remember right now (Alias I think). And there's other games that have been cancelled. You may not care now but I think you will when a game you want is announced for another system, maybe a system you don't own.
And let me touch upon your comments where you said it's not like you're buying a car or anything. Let's use the PS2 as an example.
$180 for the system itself. Unless you only play by yourself all the time you'll need another controller so that's $20-$25 more. Got to have a memory card so there's another $20. What else? Oh yeah, got to have a game, add another $40-$50. There's $250-$275 right there. All for what, one game (tax not included)? And who buys a system for just one game? Add in another $100 for a couple more games. So you've spent $350 and you have 3 games. Not bad I guess but you could have spent that on 6 or 7 GCN games, double the amount of games you could play.
Yeah, Nintendo is the only company capable on supporting a system on it's own (with its 1st and 2nd parties) but is that what you want? Having just a few games come out a month, with maybe just a truly great game a few times a year?
Go ahead and dismiss this if you want but this is very real.
Post by: MysticGohan on May 20, 2003, 09:41:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: greenwood
Sigh, let's try this again.
I've said it before and I will keep saying it until it's beaten into the heads of people who don't get it. If the GCN slips into 3rd in worldwide user base more and more companies will cut support from the GCN. It's as simple as that. You may say, "Ah, it's irrelevant now, no games I care about are cut." but what happens in the future? Sega dropped their entire sports line on the GCN because of low sales. And why is that? Because the GCN is in 3rd place in NA. You may not have cared but I did. And there were others like me who also cared. NBA Jam 2004 was just cancelled, along with some other Acclaim games I can't remember right now (Alias I think). And there's other games that have been cancelled. You may not care now but I think you will when a game you want is announced for another system, maybe a system you don't own.
And let me touch upon your comments where you said it's not like you're buying a car or anything. Let's use the PS2 as an example.
$180 for the system itself. Unless you only play by yourself all the time you'll need another controller so that's $20-$25 more. Got to have a memory card so there's another $20. What else? Oh yeah, got to have a game, add another $40-$50. There's $250-$275 right there. All for what, one game (tax not included)? And who buys a system for just one game? Add in another $100 for a couple more games. So you've spent $350 and you have 3 games. Not bad I guess but you could have spent that on 6 or 7 GCN games, double the amount of games you could play.
Yeah, Nintendo is the only company capable on supporting a system on it's own (with its 1st and 2nd parties) but is that what you want? Having just a few games come out a month, with maybe just a truly great game a few times a year?
Go ahead and dismiss this if you want but this is very real.
What did you forget the N64?
Actually it's pretty tied up here in NA with Nintendo and MS actually nintendo may even be 2nd now, don't forget that nintendo is still 2nd in worldwide sales. And that will continue to happen as Nintendo continues to make more deals with 3rd party companies.
Also don't neglect the fact that Xbox has no million sellers yet "not that i'm aware of" unless you count Halo, But what great hits are on the way? Even with Sega's support nothing's selling on that console.
I'm thinking the same fate is happenning to the Xbox as the ps2, that the case that it's being brought for it's dvd playback "Expensive and stupid at that" along with a hard drive where music can be ripped and saved. Although 3rd party software has sold ok so far, how has 2nd parties faired? MS has no talented developer on it's own, I can point out that there won't be a sequel to Abe
atleast not for awhile, that game was pathetic.So I wouldn't count Nintendo out, there's alot of behind the scenes thing's going. Even though Nintendo isn't number #1 this gen, the actions and arrangements Nintendo has been doing as of late will ensure that the next gen- will be in their favor with equal footing.
And in my eye's Xbox2 will be the underdog, I just see another Jaguar "Atari" coming, Just like that bad flood of games
Post by: PIAC on May 20, 2003, 10:42:10 PM
a passing interest i can understand, to satisfy the curiosity on how each console is fairing is understandable, but like 3-4 threads on it? there is nothing a single person can to to change the sales on a whole, you buy 1 and perhaps 2 consoles by 1 company, there is your insignificant number in the great scheme of things.
perhaps im just sick of seeing 3-4 sales threads cluttering up the forums, me i would rather read about new exciting upcoming games, or discussions on neato/horrid aspects of current games, things revolving around games.
*sits in the corner playing gameboy and muttering incoherantly*
Post by: Ymeegod on May 20, 2003, 11:30:34 PM
Word of mouth is quite a bit stronger than you think. It's spreads like a virus :0.
Post by: Mario on May 20, 2003, 11:57:11 PM
Post by: Cube323 on May 21, 2003, 07:33:11 AM
You have no idea how many people come into our stores whinning "my ps2 doesn't work!" My younger cousin is the manager of a Toys R Us in NY, and the story is the same for him. Every couple of days someone comes in w/ this same complaint.
As for Microsoft, they have lost almost One and a Half BILLION DOLLARS on the X-Box since the consoles launch! A billion and a half! If you doubt my numbers just check the Wall Street Journal or read the book "Opening the Box."
Even after cutting costs and producing the current boxes w/ the cheapest Chinese made parts they could find, the system still loses almost $150 per unit. Microsoft does not "break even" until a consumer has bought their 8th game at full price!
lol!
Nintendo has the lowest cost of goods. The owners of Nintendo consoles buy more games than anyone and the GBA is crushing the handheld market. As a retailer, I actually think that despite the numbers, Nintendo is actually winning the game, as they make the most money on actual Video Games!
Post by: ThePerm on May 21, 2003, 07:54:19 AM
Post by: Cube323 on May 21, 2003, 08:23:04 AM
Post by: Perfect Cell on May 21, 2003, 08:29:02 AM
Post by: Crazy on May 21, 2003, 08:47:25 AM
Spend your time buying more games, and enjoying them. That _was_ the reason we bought the game cube right? Well then get to it. Please!
Post by: greenwood on May 21, 2003, 08:20:11 PM
Crazy, I have 18 GCN games and that number will only increase (True Crime, Harvest Moon, Pikmin 2, Madden 2004, and a bunch more). I spend less than 5 minutes on these boards every day or so so it's not like I'm living on message boards obsessing about this topic. I love my GCN and have never once regretted buying it.
Post by: PIAC on May 21, 2003, 08:34:11 PM
as you will see if you click the link in my sig (planet piac) my GCN is right next to my pc, so well i sit i play i read i whinge 
Post by: Crazy on May 21, 2003, 10:38:01 PM
I only have 14 games... and somehow, I will sell my soul if I have to, but I need to get so many games this year, including a couple i missed. (Still need to get RE0)
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 22, 2003, 06:03:59 AM
All you guys can accomplish is give yourself ulcers. It's not like by worrying about sales you can pioneer a radical change in Nintendo's fundamental marketing techniques and bring them to the head of the pack. What exactly is the point of worrying?
"But Paladin, what about the third party support?"... Yeah, what's your bitching and whining going to do to change it?
I mean, honestly, this is the only page on any message board I stopped reading out of sheer disgust. Normally I read fast enough not to care about quality, but I can't read this page. Sorry. I'd rather do something less painful like go pound nails through my dic*.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 22, 2003, 12:02:00 PM
We KNOW sales are important- Nintendo's falling behind in that area and really needs to get its act together or it's going to face the consequences. But why should we WORRY about sales? We're gamers, not sales analysts. Our job is to play games, not waste attention on who is statistically ahead of who- it's pointless and only trivializes the industry. Be concerned about Nintendo all you want, but losing sleep over it is way too obsessive.
Post by: greenwood on May 22, 2003, 07:59:24 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 23, 2003, 03:29:50 AM
Post by: ThePerm on May 23, 2003, 06:26:19 AM
Post by: greenwood on May 24, 2003, 08:27:31 PM
Post by: Mario on May 25, 2003, 01:46:30 AM
Post by: MH-001 on May 25, 2003, 07:13:27 AM
Post by: MysticGohan on May 25, 2003, 02:47:56 PM
Mouse_Clicker You would be like that if you were a Nintendo employee
lol could be worse could be like that stocks and people jumping out of buildings
