Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Kytim89 on May 10, 2012, 08:34:41 PM
Title: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 10, 2012, 08:34:41 PM
With the gradual slowdown of both the Wii and 3DS Virtual Consoles, how can Nintendo revitalize the service for both the Wii U and 3DS in the future? Here are some ways that I thought about:
Allow third parties to set their own rules and prices for their games.
Online multiplayer and achievements.
Sell Virtual Console games through retailers (Gamestop) in either a download coder or physical cartridge(SD card).
Better pricing.
Create HD versions of each game.
Bulk deals.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 10, 2012, 08:36:59 PM
Make it account based rather than system based.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: stevey on May 10, 2012, 08:40:52 PM
Every purchase comes with a free physical (working) cartridge reproduction w/ case.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 10, 2012, 08:50:49 PM
I actually like the idea of Nintendo selling physical copies of each Virtual Console games for anywhere from $6.99 to $14.99 in retail store like Gamestop. The games could be on individual SD cards labelled with the game and sold on a small shelf. Then again the retail would have to get a cut of profits, but with Nintendo being in bed with Gamestop lately then nothin surprises me.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: MegaByte on May 10, 2012, 09:32:16 PM
That would be a huge pain with a system like the 3DS where the SD card really isn't intended for removal. You'd have a big copy process to deal with for each game.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 10, 2012, 10:36:09 PM
Nope...I don't like that idea.
Here is an idea. Nintendo should revitalize the virtual console market by RELEASING games on the system. I get how Nintendo wants to be careful about how many games and which games it releases. But I think Nintendo should get back to releasing games on the VC ASAP.
I would say Nintendo should:
1) Release a game a week for each supported system. Each week we should have a game from GBA, GB, Game Gear, Neo Geo Pocket (if supported) For Wii VC, Genesis, NES, SNES, Arcade, N64, TG16, SMS.
I think it is important to show the strength of the service provided and having a game from EACH system every week points that out.
2) Nintendo should create a central account that is tied to 1 Wii or Wii U and 2 3DS accounts. When you buy a VC game if it is supported on the other systems then you can play it on that system as well. This is basically like Apple and the iPod Touch, iPhone, and iPad. I understand why Nintendo wants to limit the devices you can play your games on. I think a fair compromise is 2 3DS systems (people might have 2 kids with 3DS systems) and 1 console. Linking the systems to your account should be easy, and switching systems if you get a new one should also be easy...and only require an online network and deregistering one system and adding another.
3) Enhance graphics or play controls. Look at the classic games that are flawed, like Kid Icarus...and if you can make the controls better do it. Enhance these games but keep them as close to the originals as possible. Even allow people to choose which controls to use.
4) SUPPORT THE SYSTEM!!!!
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: broodwars on May 10, 2012, 10:44:47 PM
Releasing games fans of the Virtual Console service might actually care about would be a good start. The vast majority of the N64 has been neglected, and Square-Enix in particular could definitely put some more noteworthy games up on the service. The Wii U incarnation would definitely feature the GameCube if it turns out Nintendo still cares about the service, but somehow I really don't see the GameCube's software library being any better supported than the N64's was.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: nickmitch on May 10, 2012, 11:32:50 PM
Releasing a game for every system, every week is absurd. There's no way Nintendo could keep that up. Nintendo holding back isn't the only limit to VC releases. Enhancing the games in anyway adds to the cost of putting those games out, which may not work out for Nintendo. Letting 3rd parties set their own prices is a good idea, because some more obscure titles are gonna have a hard time selling next to popular ones at the same price. However, that's not to say a 3rd party wouldn't think too highly of their classic game, so price ceilings would need to be set.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 11, 2012, 12:11:28 AM
@ Nickmitch
If third parties priced their games too high then no one would buy them and the owners would have to drop the price or take the game off of the service. There is always a sweet spot in pricing, so I could the elite titles being priced in a certain range and bottom feeder games being in lower price range.
The best way to revitalize the VC service would be to eliminate those pre-paid points cards and give the option to allow a service like Paypal for micro-transaction via the click of a button in a similar manner to the iTunes store.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 11, 2012, 12:15:34 AM
Kytim, weren't you the only who created a thread a while back about having all the virtual console games on their own individual SD cards and giving them all their own labels? How is that project coming along?
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 11, 2012, 12:27:27 AM
Kytim, weren't you the only who created a thread a while back about having all the virtual console games on their own individual SD cards and giving them all their own labels? How is that project coming along?
I have decided to have an SD card or flash drive for each Virtual Console that contains all the VC games of a each console on said flash device. I am still on the fence about whether to go with USB flash drives or SD cards. I am holding out to see if the Wii U will play games directly from a USB device before maing my decision. I am also having custom covers made for each Virtual Console. When it is all said and done I will post pictures in a thread.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: nickmitch on May 11, 2012, 02:42:49 AM
If third parties priced their games too high then no one would buy them and the owners would have to drop the price or take the game off of the service. There is always a sweet spot in pricing, so I could the elite titles being priced in a certain range and bottom feeder games being in lower price range.
That's why I said that price ceilings would have to be set. Basically, whatever Nintendo is charging for Mario should be the max. 3rd parties really only need to be able to sell cheaper.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 11, 2012, 03:21:22 AM
It isn't absurd. It is releasing games...which is what the problem is right now. If Nintendo runs out of 1st party games, then they should then target 3rd party games as well...and they should try to clear up the rights to games that might be difficult to release.
The libraries of all these classic systems are very deep. And I would rather Nintendo run out of releases, because all games are available to play that can be accessible than to not have any games. Wouldn't you?
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: nickmitch on May 11, 2012, 03:47:45 AM
Yeah, but I would also rather all education be free than to be buried in debt from student loans, but it doesn't work that way. The NES had about 800 games in NA. Let's say half of the games are made by companies that don't exist or are out of the industry. That's 400. Say half of those are licensed games where the publishers don't hold the rights anymore. 200. Now assume half of those are actually fun. That's 100 games. About what we got on the Wii. If you look at the other systems with smaller libraries and remove multi-platform redundancy, at best you could do that for three years. Then it's "damn, where'd all the support go?" Not to mention how fast Nintendo would have to build up all those servers. Besides, no one would buy 7 games a week. At an average around $7 a pop, that's $49 a week. On top of already rising game prices. Adding online and other upgrades pushes the prices up even further.
If releasing games was a problem that was so easy to fix, Nintendo probably would've done it by now.
I actually don't have any debt from student loans, I just wanted to use the example. I'm a fraud.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 11, 2012, 04:08:05 AM
Well, the thing is it is possible. And after 3 years people that complain would have nothing to complain about because you know what...every game that could be made would be available...but those missing game licenses could be pursued. If nobody owns the rights anymore...then perhaps they are public domain, or up to be bought cheaply and resold. Then are all the other game consoles that could have games published. Dreamcast, Saturn, Neo Geo...
Also the point isn't that people are supposed to buy all 7 games a week. That won't happen...but that people have the choice to buy different games. People can't buy all the stuff available for a system it just isn't possible...so does that mean 3rd parties should just not make games anymore? Because the chance people won't buy their game?
Yeah, I will admit that my initial plan was too ambitious and wishful thinking. But you know what isn't. Nintendo doing something like this: 1 Week Legacy system launch: NES SMS and TG16, Next week launch a game from Genesis and Super Nintendo, Next week N64 and Gamecube. People would know when to expect new versions of some games and they could release perhaps 2-3 games a week.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: nickmitch on May 11, 2012, 04:16:01 AM
Sometimes the pursuit of the license holder (which may involve shifting through court cases) wouldn't be worth it. Assuming something is public domain is also risky, but money can be set aside for litigation, I suppose. Still, you'd have to release maybe one per system a month to sustain such a schedule.
And of course no one buys 7 games a week. However, if that were the release schedule, gems would be lost under piles of crap. Even with good sorting and review in the eShop, I'd still forget they were there eventually.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: ejamer on May 11, 2012, 08:13:56 AM
One thing that has to be considered is how Nintendo can revitalize the Virtual Console not just for gamers, but for publishers so that third-parties care enough to put their games up for sale. The key there is to make it easier and more profitable.
My first suggestion is to drop the requirement for ESRB ratings for older games. If the title came out before ESRB existed, let it get published "as is" without having to pay thousands of dollars to get rated first. (I also think that required ESRB ratings are harmful to WiiWare and other digital platforms where small games are developed on the cheap and only expected to receive limited profits if released.)
My second suggestion is to reduce or remove the minimum sales threshold so that publishers get paid sooner for content they are releasing. Having some form of minimum sales makes sense; forcing publishers to take on the risk that they won't see any revenue at all doesn't.
Finally, give publishers some control over pricing. I understand that Nintendo wants to maintain standard prices for games on different platforms - but allowing publishers to offer games at sale prices for a limited time would boost sales and consumer interest.
I don't know enough about the submission process to make suggestions about the "easier" part... but would suggest that a quicker turn-around on Nintendo's end a clear schedule of when games are going to be released might help. Right now it seems like Nintendo does a poor job on both counts if you believe the rumors.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Ceric on May 11, 2012, 11:30:13 AM
Personally I think Nintendo should just go ahead and put everything up as it comes. Then do marketing showing the different games.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Louieturkey on May 11, 2012, 11:53:51 AM
Finally, give publishers some control over pricing. I understand that Nintendo wants to maintain standard prices for games on different platforms - but allowing publishers to offer games at sale prices for a limited time would boost sales and consumer interest.
This right here is the number one thing keeping publishers from releasing the games (well that and the fact that a certain number of the game have to be sold to even get paid at all). They want to be able to charge what they want to charge for a game, not be forced into a pricing scheme. Amazon forced publishers into a $9.99 ceiling on all books and many publishers refused to release their books on Kindle because of that ceiling. The moment Apple got into the game and told publishers they could set their own prices, most of those publishers jumped into the ebook business and Apple allowing it forced Amazon to do it. While some books weren't worth the increase in price, those same books eventually went on sale and more people bought them.
I think if Nintendo allowed publishers to set their own prices, while some games would start overpriced, those games would actually be available to purchase. At some point, those same publishers could put those games on sale as well.
Nintendo also needs to fix the price on their own games. Ice Climbers is worth $1 at most and an equivalent on the iphone would be that price. Many other NES VC games have that same problem of not being worth $5-6 and being at most a $3 game.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: ejamer on May 11, 2012, 12:13:13 PM
... Nintendo also needs to fix the price on their own games. Ice Climbers is worth $1 at most and an equivalent on the iphone would be that price. Many other NES VC games have that same problem of not being worth $5-6 and being at most a $3 game.
This is problem though: the perception that games aren't worth buying is a trained behavior, not a real representation of value.
If you doubt this, try and go out and buy the NES versions of various games. Some you'll get for a dollar or two, but I'm rarely able to get an actual game for much less than $5 regardless of quality and "good" games sell for much more. So digital copies make everything faster and more convenient for me, and cost less in the process. Sure it costs less to create and distribute digital copies, but the market is more limited and there are at least some meaningful costs (applying for ESRB ratings, for example) involved.
iOS is great for consumers because savvy users rarely pay for anything and end up swimming in more content than they can play, but that model is largely poisonous to companies who are publishing games unless they are willing to participate in the race to the bottom pricing and have alternative revenue methods (advertising or "fremium" BS) in place to milk profits after an initial sale. That concept of alternative revenue generation doesn't apply to Virtual Console though.
Surely a middle-ground is possible though? Sales and bundles and deals being offered occasionally, with a standardized range of pricing per console to set general expecations, would go a long way to revitalizing the Virtual Console platform. Of course, Nintendo would need to view it as more than filler while waiting for eShop or retail releases to enact this type of change...
(Then again, maybe Nintendo shouldn't care what third party pricing looks like. People will pay $5 for the NES version of Zelda even if other NES games are selling for a $1 because the brand and the quality justify the difference in price.)
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 11, 2012, 01:36:36 PM
The moment Apple got into the game and told publishers they could set their own prices, most of those publishers jumped into the ebook business and Apple allowing it forced Amazon to do it.
And now Apple and those publishers are being sued for price fixing. Apple is bullying the publishers into not selling eBooks cheaper on other stores than they do on iTunes.
I haven't heard anyone say that the Virtual Console has minimum sale thresholds before they get any money. I think that is just for WiiWare (since it was put in to stop shovelware).
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: ResettisCousin on May 11, 2012, 02:04:44 PM
As mentioned already, a revamped (or really, institution thereof) online infrastructure would net wonders for Nintendo. Develop a unique ID that can log in on Wiis, Wii Us, 3Ds, and the web. Yes, MS and Sony beat you to it, Nintendo. Swallow your pride. From there, link all my old and new game purchases. Develop a great friends list and pimp the 'now playing' / 'recently playing' functionality to spread intrest in the VC through that social network. I'm wary of digital sales. Part of me just doesn't want to see someone getting NES Pinball for free with I paid $5. But, more realistically, I wonder why on the earth I paid $5 in the first place. But I do agree with Iwata's GDC comments about digital shifting value perception too far downwards. On the flip side, they're gifting games based on Nintendo points (ala PSN ), so there is a middle ground. Making any changes to the rom - especially on the scale of 3DS classics (e.g. Kid Icarus example above) - is unrealistic and unwanted by me. Lastly, while I understand wanting that stream of new games to scratch your itch, have we all beat FF 3, Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire 2, Super Mario World, Majora's Mask, Faxanadu, DoReMi Fantasy, either Ogre Battle, Super Metroid, Rondo of Blood, Megaman X, Sin and Punishment, MUSHA, Phantasy Star IV and Shinobi arcade already? Because....
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Ceric on May 11, 2012, 02:15:09 PM
You pretty much described Steam.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Louieturkey on May 11, 2012, 02:16:57 PM
The moment Apple got into the game and told publishers they could set their own prices, most of those publishers jumped into the ebook business and Apple allowing it forced Amazon to do it.
And now Apple and those publishers are being sued for price fixing. Apple is bullying the publishers into not selling eBooks cheaper on other stores than they do on iTunes.
Doesn't mean they didn't bring more publishers into the ebook game. Doesn't really matter anyways.
Quote
I haven't heard anyone say that the Virtual Console has minimum sale thresholds before they get any money. I think that is just for WiiWare (since it was put in to stop shovelware).
Why would there be a different model for Wiiware and VC games?
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 11, 2012, 02:43:35 PM
Because they want to get as many classic games on the VC service. They don't want crap they is terrible to get onto WiiWare for developers to sell a few hundred copies to gullible consumers and get away with it. I also have not seen any publisher mention sales minimums for VC, while I have seen many mention one for WiiWare. If VC does have one, then publishers are being mum on it.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: MegaByte on May 11, 2012, 02:59:44 PM
It's the self-publishing indie devs who are talking about limits; VC is all big publishers, and I don't think any of them have talked about limits in either case.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 11, 2012, 03:13:47 PM
There are a few small publishers on VC. Interplay is struggling to stay afloat, for example.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: MegaByte on May 11, 2012, 04:46:30 PM
Interplay has been in the industry forever; they didn't used to be small and aren't like the devs in question. VC doesn't need the effort put in that original titles do, so from a development standpoint, there isn't a lot of cost involved, mostly just testing and ratings (which if there are quotas in place, would help explain why there aren't many new titles coming).
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Uncle_Optimus on May 13, 2012, 02:20:44 PM
My first suggestion is to drop the requirement for ESRB ratings for older games. If the title came out before ESRB existed, let it get published "as is" without having to pay thousands of dollars to get rated first. (I also think that required ESRB ratings are harmful to WiiWare and other digital platforms where small games are developed on the cheap and only expected to receive limited profits if released.)
My second suggestion is to reduce or remove the minimum sales threshold so that publishers get paid sooner for content they are releasing. Having some form of minimum sales makes sense; forcing publishers to take on the risk that they won't see any revenue at all doesn't.
That is such a great point about ESRB. But why not take it further? Why not COMPLETELY DO AWAY WITH ESRB ratings and the fees they incur that are passed on to the lil' devs? ESRB seems like an outdated concept and, if memory serves, it was itself a hackneyed reaction to public outcry over violent games in the press. Do you know who doesn't give a flying crap about ESRB? Apple and all its thousands of game developers filling the iTunes store with the same level of gratuitous content (guns, sex, drugs and alcohol its all there). If, in this day and age, some kind of on-the-box rating system is still needed Nintendo might as well do it themselves more quickly and more cheaply. Don't hand mobile games development yet another competitive advantage!
About sales thresholds, the thing that irks me is the thought that Nintendo just pockets a wad of dough that really should go to the dev that sweated through its development. As Trent Oster said, that check that Nintendo sits on could be life and death to a small dev. Whatever the reason they implemented the threshold, why not change it to a revenue-based threshold? E.g. Over $5000 in revenue, whatever that equals in unit sales, you get paid. Paying developers for THEIR work: it is the right thing to do! I'm kind of broken record here, but do you know who doesn't jerk developers around on the issue of claiming their fare share of revenue? Yeah....
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: broodwars on May 13, 2012, 02:59:45 PM
That is such a great point about ESRB. But why not take it further? Why not COMPLETELY DO AWAY WITH ESRB ratings and the fees they incur that are passed on to the lil' devs? ESRB seems like an outdated concept and, if memory serves, it was itself a hackneyed reaction to public outcry over violent games in the press.
No, we definitely still need the ESRB because it keeps the federal government off our industry, which is what it was created to do (when congress issued an ultimatum on the video game industry to create a rating system in reaction to the Mortal Kombat controversy, or else it would create its own). That was one of our industry's main line of defense when California tried to pass its ridiculous law banning the sale of "violent" games to children: we already had a rating system that did that. Having the ESRB is our shield against government regulation, and I have a feeling we'll need it or a system like it more than ever in the years to come.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kairon on May 13, 2012, 04:08:51 PM
I think Nintendo needs to go beyond steam, especially since their customers are a lot less pro-active than steam gamers. What Nintendo REALLY needs is a way to make digital downloads VISIBLE and convenient to their customers who only go to retail and... wait a sec...
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: ejamer on May 13, 2012, 04:42:06 PM
That is such a great point about ESRB. But why not take it further? Why not COMPLETELY DO AWAY WITH ESRB ratings and the fees they incur that are passed on to the lil' devs? ESRB seems like an outdated concept and, if memory serves, it was itself a hackneyed reaction to public outcry over violent games in the press.
No, we definitely still need the ESRB because it keeps the federal government off our industry, which is what it was created to do (when congress issued an ultimatum on the video game industry to create a rating system in reaction to the Mortal Kombat controversy, or else it would create its own). That was one of our industry's main line of defense when California tried to pass its ridiculous law banning the sale of "violent" games to children: we already had a rating system that did that. Having the ESRB is our shield against government regulation, and I have a feeling we'll need it or a system like it more than ever in the years to come.
At the risk of sounding like an ass, if Apple can live without ESRB for digital content then so can Nintendo. If there are legal concerns raised then Nintendo could probably call it a business "win" to reinstate ESRB requirements for their platform - leaving them in a position that is no worse then they already have - while being sure that iOS games are subject to the same requirement.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 13, 2012, 05:10:50 PM
Here is what Nintendo can learn from Steam, Apple's iTunes store and Amazon to make the Virtual Console service much better:
Steam:
Promotional pricing.
Video previewing of games.
Bulk sales by developers.
Apple's iTunes Store:
Avoid ESRB on digital media.
Pricing.
Micro-transactions.
Unified account system between hardware devices.
Amazon:
Wishlist and shopping cart features.
Best sellers list.
Recommendation system.
Recently viewd system.
Five star based review system.
Miscellaneous:
Subscription based cloud gaming service.
Paypal support.
Spotpass VC advertising and recommendations.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 13, 2012, 08:17:24 PM
The 3DS already does several of those things.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Oblivion on May 13, 2012, 08:21:03 PM
Wait, why is NOT having the ESRB a good thing?
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 13, 2012, 08:41:18 PM
There's a significant fee involved in getting a game rated, which could be argued to be a barrier to entry to the platform. iOS doesn't use them, and neither do Xbox Live Indie Games, for that reason. I would at least agree that it's kind of stupid to require VC games that predate the system to be rated, and I think they should be grandfathered in, but it's probably too late to do that now.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 13, 2012, 09:36:04 PM
Do games already rated by the ESRB get a free pass or does the ESRB get to have a second look for a fee?
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: ejamer on May 13, 2012, 09:38:19 PM
Because removing ESRB from the equation - for digital-only content that has already been published previously anyway - makes it easier (less steps required) and cheaper (thousands of dollars saved by not applying for ESRB) for third parties to put virtual console games on the service.
I'm not against ESRB and think that ratings and self-regulation have a lot of value in the video game industry. But if people want Nintendo's online platforms to compete with other services (iOS/Steam) then there needs to be a way to level the playing field somewhat. Removing ESRB along with making other changes would be a small start in that direction.
Kytim: Pretty sure that you only need to get rating once, and that the rating holds for a re-release. But I could be wrong. The issue is that ESRB didn't exist when the majority of games released on Virtual Console were first released.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: nickmitch on May 13, 2012, 09:48:54 PM
Removing the ESRB from the equation is a terrible idea. Nintendo will have to scrutinize the games themselves (much like Apple does). The cost only transfers, it doesn't disappear.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 13, 2012, 10:13:01 PM
But the VC games already made it past that scrutiny. And given the story about The Binding of Isaac, even with the ESRB Nintendo's scrutinizing potential eShop titles.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 13, 2012, 10:45:36 PM
Why is Castlevania: Bloodlines and Contra: Hard Corps not on the service?
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 14, 2012, 12:55:54 AM
Exactly. Let's not forget Interplay were the ones who owned the Fallout franchise before Bethesda bought it, as well as a bunch of other stuff. That's how big they were at one time. Their situation is kinda like Acclaim or Midway, except unlike Acclaim or Midway Interplay is actually still clinging on to dear life.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Uncle_Optimus on May 14, 2012, 12:57:26 AM
Removing the ESRB from the equation is a terrible idea. Nintendo will have to scrutinize the games themselves (much like Apple does). The cost only transfers, it doesn't disappear.
Doesn't Nintendo already scrutinize every release? As the gatekeepers to their platform, they vet every piece of software that gets released on their systems. If so, why not throw in an extra checkbox for the evaluation process? Either way...
@Broodwars makes a very good point about the political/protective role of the ESRB. California's recent legislative attempts are an excellent example to bring up. My two main arguments for banishing the rating service were: 1) it's anachronistic, a byproduct of a time that was seeking to cast video games as the bogeyman. However, it so happens that the press every now and again likes to pursue this "bogeyman" in the absence of other topics to hammer and if the service does indeed continue to function as a shield against regulation and not just as a vanity plate then it could be worth keeping around...for a while longer as attitudes mature. However, 2) ESRB requirements are not required for other notable download platforms so, yeah, Nintendo why not do away with this extra step? Why make things harder to get done, vis-a-vis your highly capable competition. You are a relative upstart in the realm of soliciting development support for your download platform, itself which is of increasing strategic importance. Lubricate the process, don't layer it with sandpaper!
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: MegaByte on May 14, 2012, 03:05:18 AM
The ESRB did try to set up something for mobile platforms but Apple and Google both refused to participate. Due to the sheer volume, it would have been a self-rating system rather than the reviewed system they have for the traditional platforms.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: nickmitch on May 14, 2012, 04:10:54 AM
But the VC games already made it past that scrutiny. And given the story about The Binding of Isaac, even with the ESRB Nintendo's scrutinizing potential eShop titles.
I thought we were talking about the VC games that weren't rated already.
Also, isn't The Binding of Isaac unrated? If a lawsuit broke out, Nintendo would be targeted. If it was a M-rated game, they could just put it out there. Nintendo doesn't want that potential liability.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: ejamer on May 14, 2012, 09:09:29 AM
Removing the ESRB from the equation is a terrible idea. Nintendo will have to scrutinize the games themselves (much like Apple does). The cost only transfers, it doesn't disappear.
Are you kidding me? Apple "scrutinizes" the games being released? No sir! Apple runs a couple of quick - mostly automated, from my understanding - checks on each game and then publish immediately. If there are problems (discovered later and reported by the appropriate parties) with offensive or illegal content then they pull the game after-the-fact and keep all profits earned in the meantime as payment for their trouble.
Nintendo already does QA checks that are more intensive before publishing anything on their digital service.
Why is Castlevania: Bloodlines and Contra: Hard Corps not on the service?
Because Konami doesn't feel the service will be easy and profitable enough to make it worth their while. That's why Nintendo needs to split their focus - it's not just revitalizing the service for gamers, but also for the companies that own games people want to play.
But the VC games already made it past that scrutiny. And given the story about The Binding of Isaac, even with the ESRB Nintendo's scrutinizing potential eShop titles.
I thought we were talking about the VC games that weren't rated already.
Also, isn't The Binding of Isaac unrated? If a lawsuit broke out, Nintendo would be targeted. If it was a M-rated game, they could just put it out there. Nintendo doesn't want that potential liability.
Targeted for what, exactly? Doing the same thing as every other major digital download service? Following in the footsteps of iOS - the critical and commercial darling that is supposedly killing their business?
We are talking about Virtual Console, which means games that already were published and met the content guidelines on their original systems. Mortal Kombat-levels of violence are probably the biggest issue, and limiting access to downloads of questionable content is exactly why the system has parental controls in place.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Uncle_Optimus on May 14, 2012, 09:13:21 AM
This makes me rather curious if, functionally, there would be a difference between having an ESRB rating and Nintendo providing their own "Nintendo Rating". What I mean is if Nintendo just slapped on their own version of a content rating, but one that is decided during the vetting process presumably so that no extra labour cost is really incurred. Then they can cut out the ESRB submission fee (if they want to be dicks, they can then impose their own slightly cheaper fee).
Maybe this doesn't fly with congress and parent's groups? However I figure the language and functionality and "rating accuracy" would be largely unaffected.
Just curious!
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Uncle_Optimus on May 14, 2012, 09:15:50 AM
This makes me rather curious if, functionally, there would be a difference between having an ESRB rating and Nintendo providing their own "Nintendo Rating". What I mean is if Nintendo just slapped on their own version of a content rating, but one that is decided during the vetting process presumably so that no extra labour cost is really incurred. Then they can cut out the ESRB submission fee (if they want to be dicks, they can then impose their own slightly cheaper fee).
Maybe this doesn't fly with congress and parent's groups? However I figure the language and functionality and "rating accuracy" would be largely unaffected.
Just curious!
I think they lose some "legitimacy" by doing a small-scale rating system in-house instead of relying on the "industry standard". More importantly, if there were objections (ie: lawsuits) then Nintendo would be responsible for defending the ratings and system in place.
Certainly not a bad idea, but it's probably cheaper and more efficient to rely on parental control systems to entirely replace ratings for digital-only content. There are meaningful business precedents for viewing ESRB as a retail-only solution, and making the publication process as cheap and easy as possible is crucial if Nintendo wants to attract more content.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: marty on May 14, 2012, 12:31:46 PM
If I buy a VC game, I should be able to play it on every Nintendo system that allows for DL content. PERIOD. I'd buy a lot more VC and DL titles if I could play them on whatever hardware I have. It makes zero sense to tie DL titles to intentionally disposable consoles. SMB should be playable on one's DSi, DSiXL, 3DS, Wii, and WiiU without any hassles or extra cost. The fact that Nintendo hasn't done this in the last 3 years is bull####.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kairon on May 14, 2012, 12:32:44 PM
Keep in mind, the content we're talking about attracting here is the content that's not expected to make enough sales to overcome an additional $2500 cost.
I really don't think the problem is the ESRB fee. The problem is getting Nintendo customer butts in seats when it comes to the eShop.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Louieturkey on May 14, 2012, 04:28:02 PM
If I buy a VC game, I should be able to play it on every Nintendo system that allows for DL content. PERIOD. I'd buy a lot more VC and DL titles if I could play them on whatever hardware I have. It makes zero sense to tie DL titles to intentionally disposable consoles. SMB should be playable on one's DSi, DSiXL, 3DS, Wii, and WiiU without any hassles or extra cost. The fact that Nintendo hasn't done this in the last 3 years is bull####.
This is why I no longer buy digital games from Nintendo. Unless I can transfer my Wiiware/VC titles from my Wii to a WiiU, I won't be buying a WiiU. With Sony, you used to be able to download a game onto five different consoles without trouble. They have since cut that down to two consoles (and a PSP or Vita for PS1 classics and PS Minis), but that is still loads better than Nintendo.
Plus, if my PS3 dies on me completely, I can deactivate it and reset which system I can download the games to without hassle. If my Wii dies, from what I've heard, my games are lost completely.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 14, 2012, 05:58:55 PM
Keep in mind, the content we're talking about attracting here is the content that's not expected to make enough sales to overcome an additional $2500 cost.
I really don't think the problem is the ESRB fee. The problem is getting Nintendo customer butts in seats when it comes to the eShop.
The fee is lower for lower budget games. If a game costs less than $250,000 to make, then the ESRB fee is $800.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on May 14, 2012, 06:40:11 PM
There is a good chance that a GBA and Gamecube Virtual Console will provide an even more robust amount of games than any other console on the service because most of the licensing contracts on those games are still young enough that legal issues might not arise as much as those games that are twenty-plus-years-old. Third party companies like EA and Activision could put out tons of Gamecube games, and there are alreadt tons of good GBA games that could be released for the 3DS. It all hinges on how Nintendo(of America) handles the service in the future.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 14, 2012, 07:04:28 PM
If I buy a VC game, I should be able to play it on every Nintendo system that allows for DL content. PERIOD. I'd buy a lot more VC and DL titles if I could play them on whatever hardware I have. It makes zero sense to tie DL titles to intentionally disposable consoles. SMB should be playable on one's DSi, DSiXL, 3DS, Wii, and WiiU without any hassles or extra cost. The fact that Nintendo hasn't done this in the last 3 years is bull####.
This is why I no longer buy digital games from Nintendo. Unless I can transfer my Wiiware/VC titles from my Wii to a WiiU, I won't be buying a WiiU. With Sony, you used to be able to download a game onto five different consoles without trouble. They have since cut that down to two consoles (and a PSP or Vita for PS1 classics and PS Minis), but that is still loads better than Nintendo.
Plus, if my PS3 dies on me completely, I can deactivate it and reset which system I can download the games to without hassle. If my Wii dies, from what I've heard, my games are lost completely.
Actually, I am completely with you. I sold my Wii. Before I did, I disconnected my Virtual Console games from my Wii and separated it completely. So that my Wii and account are independent. I have a Nintendo account...and it has registered all my games. I should be able to buy a Wii U hook that account to it, and then play my games again I already bought. If I can do this, I WILL buy a Wii U, because I know if I don't I will lose access to all those classic games. If Nintendo says NO, you can't...then I will not buy a Wii U period.
This isn't a hate on Nintendo, because it was my decision to disconnect my Nintendo games from my Wii...and it may end in nobody playing those about $150.00 worth of VC games and Wiiware games. But I should have understood and read the user agreement fully...my mistake.
I hope Nintendo shows wise direction in this area...but I have my doubts.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: nickmitch on May 14, 2012, 07:29:41 PM
Removing the ESRB from the equation is a terrible idea. Nintendo will have to scrutinize the games themselves (much like Apple does). The cost only transfers, it doesn't disappear.
Are you kidding me? Apple "scrutinizes" the games being released? No sir! Apple runs a couple of quick - mostly automated, from my understanding - checks on each game and then publish immediately. If there are problems (discovered later and reported by the appropriate parties) with offensive or illegal content then they pull the game after-the-fact and keep all profits earned in the meantime as payment for their trouble.
Nintendo already does QA checks that are more intensive before publishing anything on their digital service.
Apple's approval process is known for being arbitrary, nebulous and inconsistent. Do they get in to the nitty gritty of a game? Who the **** knows, but they'll block apps with little to no reasoning and force devs to resubmit. Nintendo shouldn't be using that process
But the VC games already made it past that scrutiny. And given the story about The Binding of Isaac, even with the ESRB Nintendo's scrutinizing potential eShop titles.
I thought we were talking about the VC games that weren't rated already.
Also, isn't The Binding of Isaac unrated? If a lawsuit broke out, Nintendo would be targeted. If it was a M-rated game, they could just put it out there. Nintendo doesn't want that potential liability.
Targeted for what, exactly? Doing the same thing as every other major digital download service? Following in the footsteps of iOS - the critical and commercial darling that is supposedly killing their business?
You know, all those lawsuits that came up which resulted in the creation of the ESRB in the first place. Nintendo doesn't want to go back to that. Saying "This game is safe to be on our systems" makes them liable for any damages the game might cause. Simply saying "This game is violent" in the wrong way, could make them liable. Saying "The ESRB said this was rated M" takes the blame off of them because they're deferring to a regulatory body.
Quote
We are talking about Virtual Console, which means games that already were published and met the content guidelines on their original systems. Mortal Kombat-levels of violence are probably the biggest issue, and limiting access to downloads of questionable content is exactly why the system has parental controls in place.
I asked if we were talking about those games because I wasn't sure. People keep referencing iOS games. But those game not being rated is what created the need for the ESRB. Saying they're fine as-is now is basically saying the whole ESRB is pointless.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Uncle_Optimus on May 15, 2012, 01:55:19 AM
Keep in mind, the content we're talking about attracting here is the content that's not expected to make enough sales to overcome an additional $2500 cost.
I really don't think the problem is the ESRB fee. The problem is getting Nintendo customer butts in seats when it comes to the eShop.
There is no doubt building an audience receptive to download games, and then enhancing the discoverability of those games is the most important challenge. Behind this there are maybe dozens of policies Nintendo could revisit and revise to boost not just the function of their digital download platform but also their competitiveness vis-a-vis their more highly regarded competitors. Removing ESRB fees from their developer equation for download titles, thus bringing the cost structure a little more closely in line with their fast growing competition, that is indeed only one small fix in what could be characterized as an overhaul!
As a consumer, I agree that a more pertinent change to my bottom line is to remove that customer-unfriendly tethering of purchased content to one system. Given how the notions of fair ownership of purchased content has and continues to evolve, I think Nintendo will have no choice but to give up their current stance or risk further marginalizing themselves.
Covering their ears and singing "la-la-la" is not sound strategy (I notice many folks write off company policy as "Nintendo being Nintendo"). I think the company is generally fairly shrewd. (One recent example is eschewing HD for the Wii to keep costs down, a decision that was business savvy in retrospect but derided by pundits originally.) Nintendo does seem to forestall certain changes to business practice as long as possible though, and this of course has bit them in the ass pretty hard in the past: I.e. "Customers don't want CDs!" Of course customers ultimately didn't care but the publishers and developers sure as hell did :p
*koff* And this brings us back to how decisions sometimes have got to be made to lubricate development....
(Man what a fascinating company, just toeing that line between trailblazing innovator and industry curmudgeon!)
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kytim89 on August 02, 2012, 03:13:44 AM
Would making Paypal a payment option for the eShop's Virtual Console be a good idea? I could instantly purchase games without having to deal with those points cards again.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Kairon on August 02, 2012, 04:27:00 AM
Would making Paypal a payment option for the eShop's Virtual Console be a good idea? I could instantly purchase games without having to deal with those points cards again.
What makes Paypal easier than using a credit/debit card online?
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 02, 2012, 06:22:52 AM
Would making Paypal a payment option for the eShop's Virtual Console be a good idea? I could instantly purchase games without having to deal with those points cards again.
What makes Paypal easier than using a credit/debit card online?
I don't know about easier, but it would add an extra layer of security. I don't see it happening though, because that would add in a middle-man which wouldn't offer this service free of charge. Either consumers or Nintendo or both would have to pay them somehow, and for that reason I don't see this happening.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: AnGer on August 07, 2012, 02:34:22 PM
I just looked through the list of available VC titles for Germany and it isn't that bad a selection, yet I miss some games from the SNES era that were quite popular but somehow didn't make it to VC.
I may also suggest adding games that haven't been released in Europe or even outside of Japan before to the library. Nintendo did this already to a certain degree but largely limited it to their own games (Mario Picross, SM RPG or Sin & Punishment) but I think people here'd like to see stuff like Lufia I.
Plus, Nintendo should definitely redo their emulator. I find it very unpleasant that I have to switch my TV's picture to 4:3 mode to play a VC game and then switch it back to play a Wii game. They really should do it like Sony here.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: MukiDA on August 08, 2012, 03:10:13 AM
This one isn't hard. First off, stop treating the Virtual Console like new releases. When I look through the Virtual Console, I AM LOOKING TO SPEND MONEY. Limiting my selection is a HORRIBLE idea. So no more weekly releases, just GET IT ALL ON THERE WHENEVER POSSIBLE.
So everything that Nintendo has exclusive release rights on SHOULD BE ON THERE. If they want easy sorting, do it by popularity or reviews. This isn't difficult.
Trick number two is to link the potable and console Virtual Consoles. Get the platforms on each solidly downpact. If all you can get onto the 3DS is the Game Boy and NES, that's fine, but make it ARBITRARY to keep your purchases for each older system sync'd on demand between your 3DS and your Wii U. The game purchase, the current save, and the current "snapshot", should be synced up. This entire architecture needs to be seen as BOTH an easy profit vector and as a simple customer loyalty feature.
Moving your VC from the Wii to the Wii U shouldn't even by UNDER DISCUSSION. Hell, moving your entire VC library to the NEXT FIVE GENERATIONS OF NINTENDO HARDWARE should be a GIVEN. It's 2012 and you WANT people to believe that DRM WORKS, let alone that the virtual console will always be there for them. The VC is something that APPLE, MICROSOFT AND SONY WILL NEVER HAVE. So you really want people to feel like their Virtual Console purchases to feel just as real as the plastic cartridges of old.
In the end, the Virtual Console should almost be an awesome back-burner service, that just MAKES MONEY while you're busy making the big games. It NEEDS ITS OWN MAJOR PRODUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT STUDIO. When release schedules are slim (which Nintendo has dealt with steadily for FIFTEEN STRAIGHT YEARS), the story of someone meandering about the Virtual Console catalog and blowing $30-50 in a go 'cause of all that nostalgia should be COMMON. The idea that I can pick up some NES Mario and Zelda and play them at home, take my 3DS with me and have my games AS-IS outside shouldn't even be up for FUCKING DEBATE. They're all features that should ALREADY BE THERE (I'm sorry, I have a tendency to shout a lot in real life, as well).
TL:DR? Here's the bullet points:
CATALOG AND FORGET. Put EVERYTHING you can on that service
FOREVER OWNERSHIP. Guarantee that your VC library will always exist across Nintendo platforms
PORTABLE GUARANTEE. Can you get it on both 3DS and Wii U? Then you HAVE BOTH, and if you want, we'll keep your game sync'd across both.
There's a lot of things Nintendo is ALREADY SQUANDERING before the Wii U even releases, but the Virtual Console is the most egregious.
Title: Re: How Can Nintendo Revitalize the Virtual Console?
Post by: Disco Stu on August 08, 2012, 06:52:50 AM
First of all, please make the promised transferability of titles from the Wii to the Wii U as painless as possible. Please.
Second, this probably goes without saying, but the Wii U has to have save states like the 3DS. Not just the "pick up where you left off" save state, but the one you can make whenever you want. I've been gaming since the late-80s and I am not ashamed to admit that these days I don't have the patience to finish NES-era games without this feature. It'd be nice if this feature was available on the NES/SNES titles I already own on my Wii once they transfer. If that happens, I may finally beat Ninja Gaiden for the first time.
I feel like the synchronization of virtual console between the Wii U and the 3DS is something Nintendo would never do. I'm not holding breath for it, at least.
