Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 10, 2012, 10:12:50 PM
Title: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 10, 2012, 10:12:50 PM
Quote from: Rösti
Well, considering a potential name change, I can, as I referenced [...], mention that Nintendo Co., Ltd. on the 11th of January 2012 received a "Suspension Letter". It regarded the "master application" for the Wii U trademark, and says that unless Nintendo provides a "true copy, a photocopy, a certification, or a certified copy of a foreign registration from applicant’s country of origin", they cannot do any action with the mark, and thus have only the option to abandon it. This was, as I wrote, on the 11th of January. I doubt it would take Nintendo almost a month to provide documents of this designation, even with coinciding earnings releases and other corporate briefings. So maybe they are currently discussing what they potentially could rename the system.
I'm considering sending an inquiry to correspondent Jerald E. Nagae about this. It could also be favourable if something attending GDC could ask Nintend of America about it (they're in booth CP2020). Well, at least if they haven't prior to the conference announced any change of plans. Do we have any GDC goers in this thread?
Looks like some legal issue could have been the reasoning behind Nintendo changing the name. Somebody forgot to cross the "t"s and dot the "i"s on some legal paperwork.
NWR should follow up on this.
(http://i.imgur.com/BcbCj.png)
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Lithium on February 10, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Well even if its just patent trolls im happy if it forces them to rename it. Although it could go either way i suppose.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Caterkiller on February 10, 2012, 11:31:10 PM
Wowzers! How in the heck did you find this stuff?
I don't care either way, cause what ever they decide to rename it, everyone will hate it cause it's going to be called Wii Y or some other strange letter.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: MegaByte on February 11, 2012, 02:24:46 AM
I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I can tell, they're just waiting for the Japanese trademark registration before continuing the US registration process.
Wii Party, Wii Sports Resort, etc. received suspensions in the past, and it took them several weeks to resolve them.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 11, 2012, 06:05:10 AM
I like the idea of a name being so stupid that the trademark office rejects it just on the basis of it being stupid. I don't think that's what happened here, but that would be hilarious.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 11, 2012, 08:03:43 PM
I don't see any actual issue here. Nintendo owns the "Wii" name, and no one owns "U", so "Wii U" is not a problem. I thin MegaByte is right.
I don't get the hate the Wii U name gets. I could see it with Wii, but not Wii U.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 11, 2012, 08:17:57 PM
I don't mind the name, but I wouldn't be mad if they changed it.
Wuu
Yuu
Nintendo U
as long as it's not too crazy or out there, it won't matter to me.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Adrock on February 11, 2012, 08:20:36 PM
I don't get the hate the Wii U name gets. I could see it with Wii, but not Wii U.
Just out of curiosity, why?
To be clear, I think the name is silly but I don't hate it. I think the rumor of Nintendo wanting to avoid confusion holds more weight than this one. There's no reason Nintendo couldn't call a console Wii-something since it's their brand.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 11, 2012, 08:50:16 PM
People seem to act like it's the worse name a game system has had. I would prefer Wii 2 (NOT Super Wii), I just don't see the problem with it. I don't think people should expect them to drop the "Wii" name because it has sold so well, and I think the confusion came because they didn't really show the actual system that much at E3.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 11, 2012, 09:52:21 PM
I don't get the hate the Wii U name gets. I could see it with Wii, but not Wii U.
The Wii U name takes everything that was wrong about the name "Wii" and then adds a little dingleberry "U" onto it.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: cubist on February 11, 2012, 10:28:49 PM
BnM...you're a freakin' beast! NCL/NOA are most likely going to stick to the name since they made a huge spiel about it at the last Nintendo Press Conference. Iwata maybe a different brand of CEO from Yamauchi, but the company overall is stubborn.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: ThePerm on February 12, 2012, 02:59:56 AM
Yamauchi wanted to call Gamecube Starcube, Starcube sounds awesome
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: cubist on February 12, 2012, 08:56:15 AM
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Ceric on February 12, 2012, 09:53:17 AM
If anyone was really dedicate back at the Rumor time for the Wii I have a whole lot of Borg references.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Ian Sane on February 13, 2012, 01:47:17 PM
"Starcube" sounds a lot like exactly what it and "Wii" and "Wii U" are: a name made up by someone who doesn't speak English who thinks it sounds cool. No native English speaker would ever come up with any of those names because they sound DUMB. It would be like if I was in charge of naming a product for Japan and picked a collection of Japanese words and syllables entirely because I think they sound cool. Odds are I would come up with something silly.
I don't know why the name even has to be universal across regions anyway. There was no issue with having the Famicom in Japan and the Nintendo Entertainment System in America. Or how the Genesis was the Megadrive in the rest of the world. Why can't Japan have their goofy Engrish name and let NOA come up with something better suited for the North American market?
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: ThePerm on February 13, 2012, 02:50:49 PM
lol most consoles have dumb names either way. The only console names I ever liked was Jaguar, and Saturn, which also happen to be car names. Genesis was cool too, though I can't see Nintendo making a Nintendo Leviticus. Cafe sounded cool, and classy. Iv mentioned in other threads, I always liked their code names, except Nitro. Gamecube isn't any better
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 13, 2012, 03:42:09 PM
Turbografix-16 and Neo Geo were cool console names also.
It kinda seems like the console with the stupidest name always wins and the console with the coolest name is always dead last in terms of marketshare. The Dreamcast had the coolest name of its generation, but it was the worst selling of all. Meanwhile Playstation was number one, even though the name sounds like a playpen for toddlers. And of course who could forget the Wii? That's the worst name of any console ever made, and yet it had the highest market share by far this gen.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: cubist on February 13, 2012, 04:19:43 PM
Let's call the next system 'Ian Sane'.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Ceric on February 13, 2012, 04:36:48 PM
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: nickmitch on February 13, 2012, 08:42:03 PM
Nintendo should just take a random word, preferably one or two syllables and then a "le" in front of it and call it a day.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 13, 2012, 10:41:35 PM
All game systems not made by Sega have stupid names.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: ShyGuy on February 14, 2012, 12:43:27 AM
Super Wii, first in line.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 14, 2012, 12:53:28 AM
Well...Nintendo isn't asking trademarking one single letter. They are trademarking "Wii U" together.
I mostly don't care about system names...I think they are usually ok...but I don't understand the hate for them.
Wii is a cool name, and if Nintendo would have had the Wii as powerful as the Xbox 360/PS3 and was as popular as it was...the Wii would still be the "it" name for Nintendo.
So my question is why abandon it...Wii U sounds weird when you speak it...but when you see it, it actually is pretty cool. Though, I do like the idea of Nintendo Cafe...specially if they worked on the online features alot...another idea could have been to call Nintendo's online service Nintendo Cafe, since it is more social gaming.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Stogi on February 14, 2012, 05:44:08 AM
Hey if I hadn't trademarked WiiZii, that'd be my first suggestion.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 14, 2012, 12:27:21 PM
The Wii was a crummy name to begin with (a lot of people's opinion), but on top of that you have the fact that the system was weak and ridden with poorly made casual oriented crap. So as bad at the name "Wii" was to begin with, it has been made even worse by the fact it is associated with the lamest console ever made.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: ShyGuy on February 14, 2012, 01:09:12 PM
You're the lamest console ever made, and your name is Philips cdi.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 14, 2012, 02:18:12 PM
You have been sorely missed, ShyGuy.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Ceric on February 14, 2012, 02:21:34 PM
You're the lamest console ever made, and your name is Philips cdi.
Are you sure its not Nuon?
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 14, 2012, 02:39:27 PM
Never had a Phillips CD-I. While I'm sure it sucked, I have no experience with it. I can only comment on the consoles I've actually owned, and with that being said the Wii is the console I've been most severely disappointed in. I've owned every console Nintendo has ever made (including the Virtual Boy) and I've loved all of them, but the Wii I hate.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 14, 2012, 05:42:53 PM
I've owned every console Nintendo has ever made (including the Virtual Boy) and I've loved all of them, but the Wii I hate.
I don't understand how that's possible. It's been shown numerous times that Nintendo has made more first party core-focused games for the Wii than they did for either the GameCube or the N64. Unless you just didn't like any of those, letting the rest of the console's lineup influence your decision is just idiotic.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Ian Sane on February 14, 2012, 05:58:20 PM
The Wii was a polarizing console. While half of the target market would be attracted to the Wii name the other half would be repelled by it. I think starting with something new ensures that no one is automatically turned off. Despite what Nintendo thinks the Wii does not, and never did, have universal appeal.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 14, 2012, 07:11:43 PM
I don't understand how that's possible. It's been shown numerous times that Nintendo has made more first party core-focused games for the Wii than they did for either the GameCube or the N64. Unless you just didn't like any of those, letting the rest of the console's lineup influence your decision is just idiotic.
The Wii had a lot of great games. The first two years I had it I had a favorable opinion of it. People on here were complaining about the lack of 3rd party games, but I defended the console and I said it was just because the Wii took everyone by surprise and that 3rd party support was going to come. But by around 2009 I couldn't defend it anymore, because by then it was obvious this was as good as it was ever going to get for the platform. So in 2009 I was more or less neutral. Then in 2010 I played Metroid: Other M and that was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for me. That was what made me decide to get a PS3, because I knew the Wii was never going to have the software support I wanted it to have.
The Wii might have had more quality games than the GC or N64, but 90% of them are from Nintendo, and even Nintendo has more or less abandoned it. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Sure, there's still some games coming this year, but these are few and far between. To me the system never lived up to the hype that there was for it in 2006-2007. Maybe that's my issue. The GC and N64 never had that level of hype so I wasn't much disappointed in those. Could those have done better? Sure. But what they delivered was more in line with my expectations. The N64 and GC delivered games that didn't look obsolete or with dumbed down controls. You can't really say that about the Wii.
It also doesn't help that there are some great games like Fatal Frame 4 and all of the Operation Rainfall games except for Xenoblade which were released in Japan but never came here. That's just adding insult to injury. And where is Captain Rainbow?
You may think its weird, but if the Wii had died and been canceled by Nintendo before 2009 I would probably have a favorable opinion of it just like how so many people love the Dreamcast despite its short life. But seeing what became of the Wii after 2009 it just disgusted me and turned me off to the whole thing. I would have rather it died young and then it could be idealized and have a cult Dreamcast level following. Instead, now I'm going to remember it as the AOL of consoles. Its better to not know and be able to dream of how it could have been, than to really know how it turned out.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Kairon on February 14, 2012, 08:03:32 PM
The AOL of consoles... I like that analogy, lol.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 15, 2012, 12:05:36 AM
The Wii had a lot of great games. The first two years I had it I had a favorable opinion of it. People on here were complaining about the lack of 3rd party games, but I defended the console and I said it was just because the Wii took everyone by surprise and that 3rd party support was going to come. But by around 2009 I couldn't defend it anymore, because by then it was obvious this was as good as it was ever going to get for the platform. So in 2009 I was more or less neutral. Then in 2010 I played Metroid: Other M and that was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for me. That was what made me decide to get a PS3, because I knew the Wii was never going to have the software support I wanted it to have.
The Wii might have had more quality games than the GC or N64, but 90% of them are from Nintendo, and even Nintendo has more or less abandoned it. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Sure, there's still some games coming this year, but these are few and far between. To me the system never lived up to the hype that there was for it in 2006-2007. Maybe that's my issue. The GC and N64 never had that level of hype so I wasn't much disappointed in those. Could those have done better? Sure. But what they delivered was more in line with my expectations. The N64 and GC delivered games that didn't look obsolete or with dumbed down controls. You can't really say that about the Wii.
It also doesn't help that there are some great games like Fatal Frame 4 and all of the Operation Rainfall games except for Xenoblade which were released in Japan but never came here. That's just adding insult to injury. And where is Captain Rainbow?
You may think its weird, but if the Wii had died and been canceled by Nintendo before 2009 I would probably have a favorable opinion of it just like how so many people love the Dreamcast despite its short life. But seeing what became of the Wii after 2009 it just disgusted me and turned me off to the whole thing. I would have rather it died young and then it could be idealized and have a cult Dreamcast level following. Instead, now I'm going to remember it as the AOL of consoles. Its better to not know and be able to dream of how it could have been, than to really know how it turned out.
Wow, this is the dumbest post I have ever read on this site. So by your logic, if the Wii had died before 2009 that would have made it a better system, even though many of the systems best games came out after that.
Nintendo games in North America from 2009 to 2012 (I'll even remove the Wii _ games and Other M which you can't stand)
Punch-Out!! Excitebots: Trick Racing New Super Mario Bros. Wii Sin and Punishment: Star Successor Super Mario Galaxy 2 Kirby's Epic Yarn Donkey Kong Country Returns Mario Sports Mix Kirby's Return to Dream Land The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword Fortune Street Rhythm Heaven Fever Mario Party 9 Xenoblade Chronicles
And now we get to notable third party titles that were actually released between 2009-2012 and actually considered decent, good or great on Metacritic.
The House of the Dead: Overkill MadWorld Rune Factory Frontier Klonoa Little King's Story Muramasa: The Demon Blade Dead Space: Extraction A Boy and His Blob Rabbids Go Home Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles Silent Hill: Shattered Memories Tatsunoko vs. Capcom No More Heroes 2 Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing Red Steel 2 Monster Hunter Tri Trauma Team Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands GoldenEye 007 Call of Duty: Black Ops Sonic Colors de Blob 2 Bit.Trip Complete Rayman Origins
There's also some titles like The Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces, Ivy the Kiwi? and Epic Mickey which have a below 75% average but still liked by a good number of people as well.
Oh and what the hell, here's some Wii Ware titles from 2009-2012.
Contra ReBirth Castlevania: The Adventure ReBirth Bit.Trip Void Bit.Trip Beat Bit.Trip Core NyxQuest: Kindred Spirits LostWinds: Winter of the Melodias Bit.Trip Fate Bit.Trip Runner Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 Mega Man 10 And Yet It Moves Fluidity Cave Story Bit.Trip Flux
This is why saying that the Wii would have been a better system if it died before 2009 is just idiotic on every single f*cking level because a huge amount of the Wii's best games came out in 2009 and beyond.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 15, 2012, 12:29:17 AM
You must have missed the part where I said
Quote
The Wii had a lot of great games.
So I'm not going to argue with you on that, because I agree. That's not the point. Sure there was great games. My beef was that after 2009 those were few and far between and the console failed to live up to the overwhelmingly high level of hype from the years before. I was disappointed, but so too were a lot of people. Just because you can pull up a list of about a dozen or so decent to great games spread out over a period of three years doesn't change that. Your list of games is what the Wii should have had in a single year. I bet if you were to pull up a metacritic list of decent to great PS360 games in just a one year period it would dwarf that 3 year Wii list.
The N64 and GC didn't have particularly great software support either, but I could look past that, because for one thing their install base was like 1/5th that of the Wii. The Wii being what it is just bothers me on multiple levels because of how much hype there was for it in the early years, the name, and the fact it has sold 100+ million units. If you want to call it dumb, so be it, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about it and I find it hard to forgive the fact it sold 5 times as much hardware but still did only about as good as the Gamecube in terms of software support. If anything, Nintendo should be embarrassed by that. Looking back at the hype and how well the system was selling in 2006-2007 its sad to think how Nintendo had this golden opportunity, but just dropped the ball and let it crumble and die just like its doing now.
Can you look at the software lineup of 2011-2012 (except for Zelda of course) and tell me with a straight face that its not disappointing? Can you do that? If you can't, then you have to admit I do have a point. Has the Wii in its final years shaped up to the hype and expectations you had for it back in 2006? For me it hasn't. I'm sorry, but no... how I had dreamed the Wii would turn out is a far cry from how it really did. If it has met your expectations then that's great, but it hasn't for me. Back then I was as amazed and excited about motion gaming and the wiimote as everyone else. I was thinking this was going to be the future of gaming and the revolution Nintendo promised it would be. I was looking forward to all the awesome sword swinging and shooting games that would come, but with a few exceptions this never really happened. Instead I was bombarded by an endless deluge of low quality waggle shovelware. That's not what I was promised in 2006. Was I disappointed? Damn right I was.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Kairon on February 15, 2012, 12:31:45 AM
No Red Steel 2 would make me a sad Wii gamer.
I don't think Chozo said that the Wii wouldn't have missed a whole lot of games if it disappeared in 2009. It's just that his own personal emotional response to the console changed so much between 2008 and now, that if the world HAD ended in 2008 he'd have gone out on a high note.
Personally, I think the last years of a console can be not just exciting, but rewarding in a bittersweet way. Sure, I buy these things at launch, but I buy them because I want to be with them for the long haul, because I want the experience of growing and evolving with my games and my gaming. I treasure the fact that my Nintendo 64 played both Mario 64 and Conker's Bad Fur Day, and my GC played both Luigi's Mansion and Gun. My Wii's gone through a TON of games, not all of them spectacular, but after all is said and done it'll have spanned games from Wii Sports to XenoBlade, and I'll be proud to have been part of that journey, through thick and thin, high and low.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 15, 2012, 01:44:10 AM
Everyone has there own personal opinion about Wii. The Game library, the name, the effect on gaming as a whole.
Ian is right. The Wii is one of the most polarizing consoles in history...but do you know why it is so polarizing, because it was successful. The Wii succeeded in doing everything Nintendo wanted it to do. Which was many, expand its target audience and market, become a marketing sensation to get Nintendo back in the news and relevent again, and to just bring back excitment for Nintendo and the industry.
Now, the Wii did that in a way that made traditional gamers uncomfortable and they let Nintendo know about it. Let's look at how Nintendo was bashed by the traditional gaming markets.
They hated the name, They hated the controller (Too few buttons, Can't play traditional games, hated waggle, hated delay...ect ect) They hated the new casual market games They hated the experimentation in software and hardware They hated the online system They hated the online store. They haded the console hardware and power
Now...many of those things were justified in being disappointed in, however, Nintendo succeeded in creating a unique system with unique experiences that demanded to be bought...because there were genuinely cool experiences that you could not have on any other system.
In the end, I think the Wii's legacy is sound when looking through the eyes of history. It will be remembered as a truly great system full of great ideas. What were those ideas?
Motion Controls, Virtual Console, Casual Games to broaden the market Home Excercise games, Channels for News, Weather and such, Simple Avatars to socialize with your friends and bring into your games,
This is why I think the Wii name is still a valuable name and is still worth Nintendo sticking with. Now when Wii U comes out...or whatever it will be called, Nintendo will be in a good position to grab their new audience and reclaim some of the traditional gamers again. And really that is win/win for Nintendo. And I think Nintendo can do it with the Wii name. In fact, I think despite a draught in Wii games for the last year of its life, Nintendo can ride a positive imagine of the Wii into the next console.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Ian Sane on February 15, 2012, 12:17:54 PM
People have been doing the "system X does too have lots of games, here's a list" routine since the N64 (and probably would have been doing it for the Sega Master System if the internet was around then). It preaches to the choir. Have you ever encountered anyone who when presented with such a list says "oh, I was unaware of all these games. Looks like I better give the system another chance." If you're on this site you know exactly what is on the system, it just isn't enough to impress you.
I actually find those lists of doom actually make me MORE apathetic since usually the person lists a bunch of really ho-hum unexceptional games that actually proves my point for me. "THIS is the best he can give me!? That just proves how weak the system is!" Suggesting you have very broad tastes doesn't win anyone over.
If you have to resort to "the list" then the system has **** third party support. No one ever does that for systems that have good third party support because the issue just never comes up.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 15, 2012, 01:34:07 PM
Another problem is a lot of those games on that list (such as Black Ops, Goldeneye 007, Rayman, and so on) are also available on the other systems with HD graphics, standards controls, trophy support, and sometimes other improvements as well. They are great games no matter how you slice it and the Wii does have them, but the Wii version is always the inferior one. If you have a Wii plus one of the other systems why would you ever opt for the Wii version?
The problem with the Wii and 3rd party support is that its a vicious cycle. Third parties didn't want to support it because of the inferior hardware and the fear no one would buy it, and consumers didn't want to buy 3rd party games because they tended to be shoddy waggleware with poor graphics. So it became a vicious cycle because consumers didn't want to buy the games, which made 3rd parties want to develop for the system even less and these two factors fed into one another.
I understand why Nintendo made the Wii as weak as it was. That meant they could price it affordably and sell as many units of it as they did while the $600 HD consoles struggled. That strategy worked amazingly well in the first few years of the Wii's life, but around 2009 or so things changed dramatically. The HD consoles dropped in price, Move and Kinect were announced, and the Wii supply finally caught up with the demand. The hype for the Wii faded away, and so did almost all of the software support from 3rd parties and Nintendo alike. 2009 seems to have been a turning point year for this generation. That's why I said if the Wii's life had came to end at that time my opinion of it now would probably be more favorable. Ever since then the Wii can only be considered "alive" in a loose Ariel Sharon sort of sense. It might have been best if Nintendo had pulled the plug on it so it could have been put out of its misery and allowed to die with dignity.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 15, 2012, 03:48:18 PM
That's just stupid. Judge a system by what it is, not what it isn't. Saying it would have been good if it had died two years ago but it sucks now makes no sense. It's not a fucking person; "dying with dignity" is a ridiculous concept to apply here. The lack of good releases in the last two years, forgetting for a second that what may be the best game on the system came out in that time span, doesn't take anything away from all the good that came before it. I would like to hear a valid argument for how you can love the N64 and GameCube when the same things you criticize the Wii for were true of them as well.
Is it disappointing that the Wii didn't do better than those systems despite a massive sales difference? Yes. Did the system even come close to living up to its potential? Absolutely not. But that doesn't change the fact that there were some truly amazing games that you can only play on the system, and those are what it should be judged by, not by what it could have been.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Stogi on February 15, 2012, 04:23:12 PM
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Ian Sane on February 15, 2012, 04:54:09 PM
Judging the Wii entirely for what it is, I still consider it by a wide margin to be the worst system Nintendo has ever made with the exception of the Virtual Boy. Aside from having weak third party support it also has no real difference over the Gamecube except for motion control, which I hate because it is imprecise and unresponsive. Essentially the Wii offers new Gamecube games with shitty controls.
I wanted Nintendo to become number one again but it wasn't out of any interest in their profits or bragging rights as a fan or anything like that. I wanted Nintendo to be number one again because I believed that would restore their third party support to the pre-N64 level. Another positive side effect would be that as number one Nintendo would have considerable influence on the videogame industry and, being commited to quality and innovation, that would be a good thing. The important thing was that Nintendo not compromise who they are to achieve this number one spot as that would negate everything. Nintendo was the best developer in the world and they made the best games and they didn't rest on their laurels and just churn out cookie-cutter sequels. It really felt like they gave it their all every time.
This generation Nintendo changed. They make casual-focused product that is intentionally unambitious to cater to the lowest common denominator. They used to have tight, responsive controls. They traded that away for wonky controls entirely because those wonky controls were a good marketing gimmick that would attract rubes. Nintendo compromised the quality of their games to attract a mainstream audience. It is exactly what I DIDN'T want them to do. For Nintendo game quality is not as important as mainstream accessibility and responsive controls are not as important as marketting gimmicks.
I am also very offended by the fact that despite having the best selling system they had no problem essentially abandoning the console over a year before its successor was released and were not going to bring Xenoblade over until Gamestop offered to fund it because they're not at all interested in any title that is not a huge mainstream hit. They don't care about offering a quality system or keeping their userbase happy. All they give a **** about is money and they demonstrated that they would gladly trade their longterm customers for a greater amount of new customers that are too ignorant of videogames to realize how bad they've been swindled. The very nature of the Wii, as a glorified Gamecube with a new accessory, was essentially a con. They would be complete fools to try to target something like that solely at the traditional videogame audience. They needed an audience that would not know better.
Nintendo were always greedy fucks but I feel with the Wii those characteristics amplified while the characteristics that made me a fan of them in the first place diminished. I would never in a million years have become a fan of this Nintendo. They have changed for the worst and the Wii is the representation of that. Despite the profits they have made, the Wii is their nadir.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 15, 2012, 05:20:14 PM
This is where the polarity happens.
Ian Sane's view are perfectly justified and understandable. They just happen to disagree with my opinion.
I loved the Wii. The Wii has been to me the party system only second to the Nintendo 64. In fact, the Wii and Nintendo 64 have a lot in common. Nintendo chose to go a different direction than mainstream and they suffered from 3rd party support....because of that decision.
What I liked about the Wii.
Motion Controls. They were not always perfect, but they are fun. Even games that don't control perfectly tend to be more fun with motion controls...WHEN you are playing with a group of friends. This is an important distinction to be made because this system was meant to be played with friends and the casual market appeal really works towards that.
Which moving on, I really liked the GOOD party games that came out. Party games excited before the Wii, but they jumped in quality during the Wii, I think this may have a lot to do with motion controls just being more engaging for a party atmosphere. Yes, there were many crap party games and the market was flooded but the good ones were fun...and the other systems never competed as well.
Advanced FPS controls. Let's just say that the Wii is the ultimate first person Shooter console controller. I would argue it is even better than the mouse, but that is just my opinion. It makes the experience just feel more intimate and tactile pointing and shooting.
The price. I think Nintendo priced there system well, and opened the market to newcomers that would be interested in this new direction in gaming. It was a fantastic idea, that although left the console at a power disadvantage, for the first 3 years of the system that didn't matter. In fact, I still think Nintendo was justified and smart keeping HD graphics out of this generation, and waiting for the Wii U. More market penetration of HD TVs, component parts cheaper for the new console, and it meant I could play more games.
Virtual Console rocked.
Finally, Nintendo had great first party Wii games I enjoy more than any other games, and the Wii lineup for that is great.
So, to me...I liked the Wii and the direction it went. Was it perfect? No.
I would have liked Wiimote + from the start...and I think Nintendo shouldn't have released the Wii without it. And I wish Nintendo would have got its online act together, but those two items aside I enjoyed the Wii.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 15, 2012, 05:46:19 PM
I would like to hear a valid argument for how you can love the N64 and GameCube when the same things you criticize the Wii for were true of them as well.
The best way I can put it is that with the GC and N64 it felt like Nintendo actually tried their best. I don't get that impression with the Wii. I think it could have done so much more than it did. You remember all those pictures about the Wii and DS printing money? Where exactly did that money go? It could have been used to open some more studios or buy up some existing studios, or to get more games ported to non-Japanese markets, but that didn't happen. We know Nintendo made oodles of money this generation, so they don't really have an excuse this time around like they did in the GC era. They even outright promised us when this generation began that there wouldn't be a drought on the Wii, but as we see now that promise has been broken. I can't think of any good valid excuse for why Nintendo could break that promise. If the Wii had been a GC level flop, sure, but that's far from the case.
Being a fan of Nintendo or any other video game company is a lot like being the fan of a sports team. You don't expect your favorite team to win the super bowl each and every season, and you stand by them through the bad times as well as the good. But the one thing you do expect is that whether they win or lose they did their absolute best that they could. With the Wii I just don't believe Nintendo did the best they could. They've practically forfeited the game and handed the last three years of this generation over to the competition without much of a fight.
The PS360 will probably never reach the LTD sales of the Wii, but there is no denying they have made massive gains. I can recall when the PS3 first launched Nintendo fans on this site and elsewhere were joking about how it was getting its ass handed to it by the Gameboy Advance. Well, you don't see anyone making those kinds of jokes anymore, do you? The PS360 may not have sold as much as the Wii has and they probably never will, but they do have something which the Wii has not had in years: Relevance.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 15, 2012, 08:22:37 PM
I would like to hear a valid argument for how you can love the N64 and GameCube when the same things you criticize the Wii for were true of them as well.
The best way I can put it is that with the GC and N64 it felt like Nintendo actually tried their best. I don't get that impression with the Wii. I think it could have done so much more than it did. You remember all those pictures about the Wii and DS printing money? Where exactly did that money go? It could have been used to open some more studios or buy up some existing studios, or to get more games ported to non-Japanese markets, but that didn't happen. We know Nintendo made oodles of money this generation, so they don't really have an excuse this time around like they did in the GC era. They even outright promised us when this generation began that there wouldn't be a drought on the Wii, but as we see now that promise has been broken. I can't think of any good valid excuse for why Nintendo could break that promise. If the Wii had been a GC level flop, sure, but that's far from the case.
Being a fan of Nintendo or any other video game company is a lot like being the fan of a sports team. You don't expect your favorite team to win the super bowl each and every season, and you stand by them through the bad times as well as the good. But the one thing you do expect is that whether they win or lose they did their absolute best that they could. With the Wii I just don't believe Nintendo did the best they could. They've practically forfeited the game and handed the last three years of this generation over to the competition without much of a fight.
The PS360 will probably never reach the LTD sales of the Wii, but there is no denying they have made massive gains. I can recall when the PS3 first launched Nintendo fans on this site and elsewhere were joking about how it was getting its ass handed to it by the Gameboy Advance. Well, you don't see anyone making those kinds of jokes anymore, do you? The PS360 may not have sold as much as the Wii has and they probably never will, but they do have something which the Wii has not had in years: Relevance.
Well, the money could have gone into the development of the WiiU and 3DS which are both much more powerful and capable systems than their predecessors. Also, it could have been put into investing Nintendo's new network experience, which is just beginning to slowly be developed and released. These things take time.
And altough everyone wants Nintendo to do radical things like buy 3rd party developers, hire more staff and create more development studios, and such, the truth is you still have to run your company with a business plan and strategy for the future. I remember reading an article when Miyamoto stated he had to get permission to use some ideas they were saving for the Wii Zelda when developing Twillight Princess for the Wii. I was like wait, what...Nintendo holds off ideas to save for sequels. Well of course, because you must have a plan for future games.
That being said, I think Nintendo has been pretty fantastically creative this generation and that their teams have tried to develop truly new experiences with gaming...you may or may not have liked the results, but Nintendo's teams were definitely being creative and developing some amazing new game experiences.
At the same time, I see Nintendo working more the 3rd party developers to create games that appeal to the demograph that Nintendo isn't well known for. The newest Metroid game may have not been your cup of tea...but outsourcing it to Team Ninja who are known for mature action games was an attempt to make the series more for traditional gamers.
Personally, I think the best Nintendo systems have been Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, and Wii...in that order. I see the Wii U as an attempt by Nintendo to create the magic of the Wii, DS, and Super Nintendo into one device. What I mean is that, it has options for developers to make whatever type of game they want...like the DS had. But, it also is trying to innovate and still push the progression with motion controls, casual appeal with a touch screen, and useful innovation like playing a game and watching TV at the same time. Finally, I think Nintendo is also trying to push a system that is capable enough to deliver the gaming graphics and sophisticated games we want in our market today. This is great news and I know that the eventual next generation Xbox and PS4 will be more powerful than the Wii U...but if we are outputting HD graphics, does it really matter THAT much?
It is hard to imagine that games really need to be prettier than they are now...and Nintendo's Wii U is more powerful than this current generation. The rumour of 5x more powerful is amazing. But even if it is 2.5x more powerful thant hte Xbox 360...or 3x that is still a noticable jump. Personally, I am hoping that Nintendo originally planned for a 2.5x powerful system, and bumped it to 5x just so 2 WiiU motes could be used at the same time...that would be amazing.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Kairon on February 15, 2012, 08:59:58 PM
The N64 and GC didn't have much relevance at this point in their lifetimes. In fact, by now they were dead and buried. There's only so much one company can do when third parties don't fill the in gap.
Personally, I obviously have a different take than Chozo and Ian. I feel much more a fan of Nintendo now than in 2005. I guess everyone's reasons for becoming, staying, or no longer being a fan is different.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 15, 2012, 09:00:15 PM
I think Nintendo's got a point when they argue against buying up developers willy-nilly because the people working there could just leave. Studios are only as good as the people working there, and buying the company means nothing if the talent decides not to stick around. I like their current strategy of working closely with external teams, like Monster or Next Level Games, without actually buying them.
As for founding new studios, again, the issue is people. Nintendo was about as successful as they could have possibly been when they founded EAD Tokyo, but finding people for further attempts at such a thing would only get harder and harder. It takes a lot more than money to get a studio off the ground, especially when your standards are as high as Nintendo's..
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Mop it up on February 15, 2012, 10:00:20 PM
Chozo Ghost, you have a Kirby icon, have you bought Kirby's Return to Dream Land?
Are you really going to let a few bad experiences ruin one of your systems? I can't stand Super Smash Brothers Brawl as much as you seem to hate Metroid Other M, but I haven't let that stop me from enjoying other games on the Wii. And in my case, that game was actually the reason I bought a Wii, so it was pulling a lot of weight. But I'm glad I didn't sell it, because I've found a lot of other stuff on it that I really like.
I don't care about what people think of the Wii, I don't care about what sells, and I don't care about the small upcoming release schedule. It doesn't devalue what's already there. I can only hope that someday you can look past this stuff too.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 16, 2012, 12:15:20 AM
Chozo Ghost, you have a Kirby icon, have you bought Kirby's Return to Dream Land?
Not yet, but it is on my wishlist. To be honest I haven't even turned on my Wii in months, let alone play anything on it. I am preordering Xenoblade though, and I have great hopes for that based on what people have said about it. That will be the first Wii game I've played in awhile, and it might also be my last. I still plan on buying Wii games I might have missed, but I will probably end up playing them on the WiiU because of the reverse compatibility. I did the same thing with my backlog of GC games I hadn't played when I got the Wii I played them on that in those early months.
Its really not so much that I hate the Wii but that I'm just disappointed in it... I just don't feel very enthusiastic about it. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but that's how I feel. I hope that Nintendo will drop the WiiU name in favor of something fresh and new so we can start off with a clean slate instead of carrying these negative reputations over into the next generation. I'm sure I will buy the console regardless, I just wish it had a name I could feel more enthusiastic about.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Adrock on February 16, 2012, 08:46:09 AM
I think Nintendo's got a point when they argue against buying up developers willy-nilly because the people working there could just leave. Studios are only as good as the people working there, and buying the company means nothing if the talent decides not to stick around. I like their current strategy of working closely with external teams, like Monster or Next Level Games, without actually buying them.
I still kind of wish Nintendo would have purchased Sega while they had a modicum of artistic integrity. It could have been worth it for the IPs alone. Even with personnel departures, I don't think it would have been too difficult to find existing teams with enough passion to do something great with those franchises. It's water under the bridge now but it's one of those what-if scenarios that could have really worked out well.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Sarail on February 16, 2012, 09:11:30 AM
Nintendo owning Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue, and Sonic to top it off? Oh, man. Yeah, I would have loved to see what Nintendo could do with those IPs.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Stogi on February 16, 2012, 09:27:12 AM
Don't forget Skies of Arcadia, Jet Set Radio and Streets of RAGE.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 16, 2012, 11:26:08 AM
The idea of a new Skies of Arcadia game developed by Monolith Soft and Shenmue 1 & 2 (with the ability to transfer saves from one to the other) on the Wii U or 3DS eShop is pretty awesome. It's not like Sega's in hugely better shape than they were a few years ago; if Nintendo wanted the IPs they could still do it. But really, Sega hasn't been shy about whoring out their franchises anyway, so Nintendo could get those games without having to buy the whole company.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on February 16, 2012, 11:44:16 AM
Isn't it possible to get the developers stay on board by getting them to sign contracts? Isn't that the whole point of contracts? I also don't think developers would jump ship unless they had a reason to. If they were given sufficient freedom and treated well why would they leave? If you treat them like dirt, cut their pay, and micromanage what they can do then yeah they probably would leave as soon as their contract is up. The key is just treat them well and they most likely will stay.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Adrock on February 16, 2012, 12:11:34 PM
It's not like Sega's in hugely better shape than they were a few years ago; if Nintendo wanted the IPs they could still do it. But really, Sega hasn't been shy about whoring out their franchises anyway, so Nintendo could get those games without having to buy the whole company.
Nintendo could probably buy the rights to most of Sega's dormant IPs but I doubt they would see their true value without buying the entirety of Sega and making a Nintendo x Sega Smash Bros game. Besides, if they bought Sega, Wii U could be renamed Streamcast and it would mean something. Just trying to re-rail the topic.
Title: Re: Nintendo renaming Wii U by choice? or by force?
Post by: Sarail on February 16, 2012, 01:21:26 PM
