NWR Interactive => Podcast Discussion => Topic started by: Jonnyboy117 on October 16, 2011, 12:13:32 AM
Title: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on October 16, 2011, 12:13:32 AM
Please use this thread for discussion of the latest RetroActive poll selection, River City Ransom (NES). This is a beat-em-up/RPG hybrid with 2-player co-op, starring characters from the "Kunio-Kun" franchise that is currently celebrating its 25th anniversary in Japan. This game is available worldwide on Wii Virtual Console for about 500 points ($5.00 USD).
Note: Excerpts from posts in this thread may be read aloud on the Radio Free Nintendo podcast when we discuss the game!
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Lithium on October 16, 2011, 04:49:39 AM
just started playing now. Control and movement feel a bit floaty and slow but i'll keep playing, maybe i'll get used to it.
edit: I ran into a great walkthough that i wish i saw before i finished this game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goQlPC5wOic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goQlPC5wOic)
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: lolmonade on October 17, 2011, 07:28:58 AM
I hold your city captive & Ryan’s girlfriend hostage. With my gangs of students & evil bosses, nobody can stop me now. Meet my demands – or else!...P.S. Alex & Ryan if you interfere, you’ll be in for the fight of your lives!... SLICK
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Lithium on October 17, 2011, 11:45:28 AM
I think I've gone as far as I can in this game. I went to the entrance to River city high but the gates wont open, so I checked online and apparently I missed some bosses, So I went to the locations of the bosses that I apparently missed but found nothing. So I trecked all the way back and the gates are still closed, after checking around (both on the internet and in game) for about an hour and a half I just gave up. Pretty sure I missed some obscure trigger in the game but I've lost patience to continue looking, at least for now anyways.
btw get the stone fist and dragon feet as quickly as you can, they're a godsend. You have to buy the moves at the bookstore, but don't throw away the books, because apparently Alex's memory is shot and without it he forgets his techniques. This means your item slots get progressively smaller the more techniques you learn.
also the warehouse is the most annoying part in the game so far. The jumping controls are so wonky :/
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: ejamer on October 17, 2011, 12:41:51 PM
Personally I prefer to eat so that my stats increase - especially for weapons and throwing - rather than buy special moves that have to be carried around. Of course, I also spent the better part of the game using a chain to obliterate all foes. It's especially nice once you can throw weapons and kill enemies with a single hit from a distance. With bosses I could usually find two weapons and then time my throws to keep them on the ground and safely away from me until they were defeated.
Agree that jumping is wonky. Kind of enjoyable in a "ridiculously old-school" way though, and also really useful in some cases. A running leap can take you a long way out of (or into) danger
Who is playing this game co-op? I recently played through solo, and am curious if there are any differences.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: lolmonade on October 17, 2011, 01:22:25 PM
When I played Scott Pilgrim vs. The World, I read that it was influenced by River City Ransom, but I didn't realize how much had been lifted from this game.
One of my favorite things about SPVTW was leveling up until my character was a beast and then being able to fly through the stages pummeling people like a dump truck with a rocket attached to it. I'm hoping I'll see a noticeable difference after leveling up my character, because so far i've been on the receiving end of the beatdowns.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Lithium on October 17, 2011, 03:04:11 PM
One of my favorite things about SPVTW was leveling up until my character was a beast and then being able to fly through the stages pummeling people like a dump truck with a rocket attached to it. I'm hoping I'll see a noticeable difference after leveling up my character, because so far i've been on the receiving end of the beatdowns.
Oh don't worry, you will. You don't level up by actually fighting enemies, but you use the money that they drop to buy items to up your stats. In true old school fashion they don't tell you anything about what the items do though, but thats what gamefaqs is for if you'd rather just know instead of finding out.
One of my favorite things about SPVTW was leveling up until my character was a beast and then being able to fly through the stages pummeling people like a dump truck with a rocket attached to it. I'm hoping I'll see a noticeable difference after leveling up my character, because so far i've been on the receiving end of the beatdowns.
Oh don't worry, you will. You don't level up by actually fighting enemies, but you use the money that they drop to buy items to up your stats. In true old school fashion they don't tell you anything about what the items do though, but thats what gamefaqs is for if you'd rather just know instead of finding out.
Yeah, that's exactly how scott pilgrim does it, not giving any info on what the items do and all. I look forward to roflstomping everything once I eat all the foodz.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Lithium on October 17, 2011, 04:59:03 PM
Well this game was pretty short. I had troubles with the controls at first but once you level up and gain a few techniques it isn't that bad (but I still want to throttle the coder responsible for the jumping controls). Needless to say i figured out what my problem was with the river city high gate. You needed to backtrack way back to find an easily missed boss, then and only then will subsequent bosses appear (you need to find/beat all the bosses to trigger the gate to open). Usually the bosses tell you where the next boss is but without a map its pretty pointless. One of the bosses even neglects to mention that before the boss he tells you about will show up you have to beat another boss before. I'm not sure how you're supposed to know that but whatever...This is an old school game after all. BTW for some bosses you have to beat every enemy in the area before they will appear; and don't throw Thor into the pit or else it doesn't count for some reason.
the writing in this game is pretty humorous, lolmonade's first post is basically the very first thing you read in the game and is a pretty good indication of how silly it is. (I think its intentional, but with games from this era you never know) This game is short, and most of your time will be grinding and general difficulty hurdles but it was pretty fun, warts and all.
I was hoping for a hilarious engrish (http://engrishfunny.failblog.org/2011/10/16/engrish-funny-in-case-you-were-wondering-we-like-to-disinfect/) phrase at the end of the credits roll but all I got was a lousy "the end"
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Ceric on October 17, 2011, 05:10:20 PM
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Da Jarvis on October 18, 2011, 03:27:43 AM
Just downloaded the game today and put about 3 hours into it... and I have kind of a mixed bag about it. At first, I found the game to be pretty simple, as all you really need to do on the novice setting is just spam the Kick Button until people die, but then I got to the bosses... to say it simply, they kicked my ass, and I have begun to notice some problems I have with the game. First of, the game never goes into detail about any of it's complexitys like what items do, how to equip items, and most importantly, there is never really any set direction to go. Granted, it's an NES game and a lot of games at the time had a whole exploration aspect to them (Zelda and Metroid), but I feel River City Ransom doesn't do it as well as though games. On top of that, when you die, you have to fight the bosses you beat ALL OVER AGAIN! Why? Could you imagine if Zelda or Metroid made you refight the bosses when you died? What else is really depressing is when you die for the first time, you think the game has a checkpoint system, but no... it just takes away half you cash and resets all the bosses. There are a couple little things that bother me, like how you can damage yourself by running into walls or running off cliffs that are right at the beggining of screen, and hurting yourself because items bounce off walls and getting gang raped by thugs who surround you.
To say the least, it hasn't really aged all that way well, but most of my complaints are common with a lot of NES games at the time. However, my biggest complaint about the game is just how grind heavy the game is (or so at first). Since the game doesn't tell you what items do and it just tells you how you need to get stronger, you are forced into farming for cash on easy enemys so you can aquire power-ups that don't always give you what you need, which then has you farming agian to buy something different and when you find that magic item, you then need more money so you can buy more of them, so you grind some more... you see where I am going? This is also my exact complaint with Earthbound, because both games have a create combat systems and are fun to play, but the grinding just slows down the pacing WAY TO MUCH! It's just really anyoying and granted, the combat is a lot of fun, but that is to much, and if you die on a boss, guess what? You need to beat the bosses again, so you grind some more to get ready to beat that bosses. I feel they put the whole RPG element in there mainly because they wanted something to suck up time.
A while back, I once heard a wise man discuss the major differences and flaws between Castalvania 1 and Castalvania 2: Simon's Quest (Which also has a crap tone of grinding) and he as well hated the grinding in the game. His responce was the fallowing, "Let me ask something? What is the difference between: a) killing a bunch of zombies to collect a bunch of hearts, collecting the hearts out of them so you can buy an item to get to another part of the game and b) playing a game where you kill zombies that try to stop you from reaching the end of the game? Answer: 4 HOURS!!!". I feel the same way with this game. They force you to grind so you can basically gauntlet through the rest of the game, when they could of just avoided that and put more work into creating memorable and unique levels and focus more on the smooth combat and better boss fights, instead of making you take ages to get you character up so you can attempt to take on the rest of hte game. To be honest, the game demands a lot from you and the reward isn't that great.
After about 2 and 1/2 hours of grinding and failing at the bosses (which are pretty cheap in some case), I jumped on youtube and found a really helpful game guide and after playing for another 30 minutes, ended up finding the game to be a lot more enjoyable. There are two ways to make this game a lot shorter and take out all of or some of the grinding: 1) Grind a bit in the beggining so you can buy the Dragon Feet (BEST ITEM IN THE GAME) and make your kick EVEN MORE AMAZING and just race through the rest of the game buying some power-ups along the way (takes about 20-30 minutes), or 2) Put in a code that gives you all items and max stats and beat the game in under 12 minutes. The second one is cheating, yes, but the game is so much better when you don't have to worry about leveling up your character (which is also pretty flawed as you level up off random item effects), and you only need to buy health and heal items. Personally, I think this game caters a lot more to that play style rather then making you take ages to do what you want.
Overal, despite it's flaws, there is a pretty solid brawler under the hood. The combat is pretty fun and can be deep once you aquire the other items, and the game had a lot of ground breaking ideas for it's time (A pretty solid game world and a pretty big focus on exploration), but it just doesn't bring it all together properally. It's a nice try, but other games later did this much better.
Sorry for the novel, but I had quite a bit to say about the game xD.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Lithium on October 18, 2011, 04:49:00 AM
....There are two ways to make this game a lot shorter and take out all of or some of the grinding: 1) Grind a bit in the beggining so you can buy the Dragon Feet (BEST ITEM IN THE GAME) and make your kick EVEN MORE AMAZING and just race through the rest of the game buying some power-ups along the way (takes about 20-30 minutes), or 2) Put in a code that gives you all items and max stats and beat the game in under 12 minutes. The second one is cheating, yes, but the game is so much better when you don't have to worry about leveling up your character.
That's pretty much what i did because I got tired of grinding (around the time where i was running around looking for the bosses) So i just entered a password cheat. I completely agree with you on that point, It ain't fun. (and why i dislike a lot of Jrpgs) However its hard for me to knock it for being a product of it's time especially when as you said it's pretty progressive for a brawler from this era.
$999.99 dollars* C K X I E e S f q s X J W A W k U F D W G M S H K L b S O N M B A If you want to cheat while still being within the parameters of the game this is probably the way to do it. Everything is the same and allows you to discover/experiment with items but it just saves you a **** ton of time.
Ivan Beaten, High School Open t1izvpdOZnZ JxNkJp7Cpub XMPQgXErSMF Just in case you run into the same problem I did this will save you a lot of grief.
*found a password generator online for this game http://ensomnya.net/projects/rcr_password/rcrpassgen.html
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Da Jarvis on October 18, 2011, 01:58:23 PM
....There are two ways to make this game a lot shorter and take out all of or some of the grinding: 1) Grind a bit in the beggining so you can buy the Dragon Feet (BEST ITEM IN THE GAME) and make your kick EVEN MORE AMAZING and just race through the rest of the game buying some power-ups along the way (takes about 20-30 minutes), or 2) Put in a code that gives you all items and max stats and beat the game in under 12 minutes. The second one is cheating, yes, but the game is so much better when you don't have to worry about leveling up your character.
That's pretty much what i did because I got tired of grinding (around the time where i was running around looking for the bosses) So i just entered a password cheat. I completely agree with you on that point, It ain't fun. (and why i dislike a lot of Jrpgs) However its hard for me to knock it for being a product of it's time especially when as you said it's pretty progressive for a brawler from this era.
It's funny you say that actually, as I tend to like JRPGs and actually find you don't have to grind that much for some of them. I mean, I remeber playing games like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy X, Pokemon, and Legend of Dragoon and never really having to worry about grinding all that much, and I usually love JRPGs. However, Games like Earthbound that are only difficult because the boss and enemeys are that much higher level then you is just really lame. I feel a game should be difficult because you haven't figured out the trick to how you beat the boss, and that's what a boss should be. It should be a challenging opponent that is differenent the common grunts or elites (No Halo Pun Intended) and should be fun, difficult, and rewarding to play and beat. River City Ransom just doesn't do that at all. The bosses are just stronger dudes that do more damage and are more aggressive, and the only real way to beat them is to level up and grind... it's just really lame to be honest.
Also, IDK if you have it, but did you use the Max Stats code as well?
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Lithium on October 18, 2011, 02:24:44 PM
It [bosses] should be a challenging opponent that is differenent the common grunts or elites (No Halo Pun Intended) and should be fun, difficult, and rewarding to play and beat. River City Ransom just doesn't do that at all. The bosses are just stronger dudes that do more damage and are more aggressive, and the only real way to beat them is to level up and grind... it's just really lame to be honest.
Also, IDK if you have it, but did you use the Max Stats code as well?
Yeah that's pretty much how i feel about grinding as well (and the game's bosses). a lot of the JPRGS i like tend to be outliers like Chrono trigger and the (Paper) mario rpgs because they stray from the forumla (but thats another discusion for another time)
also, i only used the money cheat in my post basically to experience everything in the game the same way but just accelerate the experience. but I wish i found the river city gate cheat sooner.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Enner on October 18, 2011, 02:26:38 PM
Oh, I never thought of using codes.
I beat the game by grinding cash until I got all the special moves. Glee was obtained when I was able to pick up a trash can and swing it like the Fist of the North Star. I have played a good chunk of the game cooperatively but we got stuck at the part where you were supposed to back track. I don't think we would've gone far since we kept losing our money and weren't able to buy the special moves and statistic upgrades. Hey, losing your currency that is essentially your experience parts every time you are defeated? Demon's Souls and Dark Souls was influenced by River City Ransom.
The statistics growth, equipment upgrades, and skill unlocks of River City Ransom was ahead of its time for beat'em ups. When you look at games today that succeed the genre (Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, God of War, Castle Crashers, Scott Pilgrim vs The World: The Game, Dynasty Warriors) you will be hard pressed to find a game that doesn't have at least one of the player character growth systems that River City Ransom has.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Mop it up on October 18, 2011, 10:01:49 PM
I was thinking about getting this game, but the comments here about the excessive grinding are a real turnoff. I might still try it out if I come across a deal for it sometime soon.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Enner on October 18, 2011, 11:15:34 PM
I was thinking about getting this game, but the comments here about the excessive grinding are a real turnoff. I might still try it out if I come across a deal for it sometime soon.
Even though I grinded money, I was still able to beat the game by myself in about 2-3 hours. It's a short game even when you spend the time to make your character really mighty. For US$5, it's not too bad for a piece of beat'em up history.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Da Jarvis on October 19, 2011, 12:29:31 AM
It [bosses] should be a challenging opponent that is differenent the common grunts or elites (No Halo Pun Intended) and should be fun, difficult, and rewarding to play and beat. River City Ransom just doesn't do that at all. The bosses are just stronger dudes that do more damage and are more aggressive, and the only real way to beat them is to level up and grind... it's just really lame to be honest.
Also, IDK if you have it, but did you use the Max Stats code as well?
Yeah that's pretty much how i feel about grinding as well (and the game's bosses). a lot of the JPRGS i like tend to be outliers like Chrono trigger and the (Paper) mario rpgs because they stray from the forumla (but thats another discusion for another time)
also, i only used the money cheat in my post basically to experience everything in the game the same way but just accelerate the experience. but I wish i found the river city gate cheat sooner.
Oh, I totally forgot about Paper Mario, which is also a very good game :). I have only played The Thousand Year Door (I have also played Super Mario RPG, but that really doesn't count I guess xD), but I loved that game and was a reason for me to keep my gamecube other then Wind Waker and Melee xD.
I can see your point, but I just personally found it easier to just not worry about buying stat increases and found it a waste of my time to try and learn the faulty leveling up system.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Da Jarvis on October 19, 2011, 12:44:41 AM
I beat the game by grinding cash until I got all the special moves. Glee was obtained when I was able to pick up a trash can and swing it like the Fist of the North Star. I have played a good chunk of the game cooperatively but we got stuck at the part where you were supposed to back track. I don't think we would've gone far since we kept losing our money and weren't able to buy the special moves and statistic upgrades. Hey, losing your currency that is essentially your experience parts every time you are defeated? Demon's Souls and Dark Souls was influenced by River City Ransom.
The statistics growth, equipment upgrades, and skill unlocks of River City Ransom was ahead of its time for beat'em ups. When you look at games today that succeed the genre (Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, God of War, Castle Crashers, Scott Pilgrim vs The World: The Game, Dynasty Warriors) you will be hard pressed to find a game that doesn't have at least one of the player character growth systems that River City Ransom has.
Yeah, I agree that RCR was way ahead of it's time, but I think even back then, the execution of the mechanics just aren't very good.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: lolmonade on October 20, 2011, 08:49:21 PM
So far, my favorite part of the game is some of the silly faces the characters get when they get hit.
I enjoy the gameplay, and buying items have greatly improved my ability to mow over baddies, but more than anything progress in this game comes down to angles and timing. If an enemy gets in one shot on you, expect to get hit 3-6 times and lose a quarter of your health before all is said and done. Reminds me a lot of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game on NES in that respect.
Jumping back to a game like this makes you appreciate things like dedicated buttons for jumping, save points, and being able to run diagonally in a fighting game. I don't necessarily find the game difficult. I just think the difficulty curve is a horizontal line that starts higher than most games, but doesn't really increase over time, where as most games now will start easy and graduate the difficulty as you progress.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: leahsdad on October 23, 2011, 06:24:21 AM
I've put about an hour into the game so far, but one of things that really struck me as I began to understand the level up system and its effect on the combat was how much the modern metroidvania's have lifted from this game. You definitely notice when you're in an area where the street gangs are way too tough for you, as they start blocking everything you throw at them, with the exception of the things that you literally throw at them.
But I love how food works into the health and level system. It seems so Japanese (which makes sense, obviously). The most recent game I can think of that incorporated this was Muramasa, which while boring still hooked me with its addictive but repetitive gameplay. So I played that game to completion, and food (and cooking) was a huge part of the health/magic system.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: leahsdad on October 23, 2011, 08:57:46 AM
Okay, I broke down and looked up a gamefaq, solely because of the stores and the food. If I was younger, I would be playing with a notepad, trying all the different kinds of foods and items, writing down how each of them affected my stats. I remember back in the day when we were drawing our own maps while playing games. Seriously. Yup, I'm Linderman old!
But I've got 2 kids, very limited time for gaming, and I just don't have the patience, so I looked up a faq with all the stores, what they sell, and how they affect stats. Jeez, did that change the game for me. Now I'm pumping my stats like crazy (Love those Honey Buns!) and I've got Stone Hands and Dragon Feet.
Oh, and the young'uns on these forums might be fooled into thinking that "60 cents a gang member? Damn, that must have been a lot of money back in the 80's when this game came out." Uh, no. It wasn't. 60 cents couldn't even buy a comic book when this game came out. And this game probably cost $50. When you think about that, games are ridiculously cheap now, considering that inflation has far outpaced the cost of a single game.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Lithium on October 23, 2011, 01:57:26 PM
Oh, and the young'uns on these forums might be fooled into thinking that "60 cents a gang member? Damn, that must have been a lot of money back in the 80's when this game came out." Uh, no. It wasn't. 60 cents couldn't even buy a comic book when this game came out. And this game probably cost $50. When you think about that, games are ridiculously cheap now, considering that inflation has far outpaced the cost of a single game.
even more amazing considering the sales, i got metroid other m for $10 NEW and some iphone games match the depth of some $50 NES games back then
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Shaymin on October 26, 2011, 10:11:10 PM
Just wrapped it up tonight - basic enough 8-bit ending, but since the storyline's one screen at the start I can forgive it.
I had a lot of fun playing this game in multiplayer when I rented it (repeatedly) in my younger days, but never got a chance to try it this time so I don't recall if it had friendly fire. Then again, I killed myself at least twice running, slipping on the Wii controls and taking out my last bit of health hitting a wall... so it wouldn't have done me any more harm.
I did find that I had to grind constantly for cash until I sucked it up and used a password generator, because it's very easy to die in this game which makes grinding cash a pain. (If it's not the accidental suicide, it's the Elite Mooks bashing me about the head and neck with dustbins. F**k those guys.)
Still, it's one of the best brawlers on the NES, up there with Double Dragon 2, and you haven't lived until you managed to one-shot a boss with Acro Circus.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Ceric on October 27, 2011, 05:15:07 PM
In today's prices you would be paying $1.10 per gang member. So what a candy bar. If you bought this game for $50 in 1989 when it was released in Japan you would have bought what is the equivalent today of a $91.49 game.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Da Jarvis on October 28, 2011, 03:27:33 AM
Just Recently, I decided to replay through this game once again just to see if my opinion on it has changed after reading all the comments on this forum and a couple of my opinions have changed:
1) I will be the first to agree that the game was very much ahead of it's time and that a lot of things in games now a days can be said to have been inspired from this game, however, I still feel that game didnt' execute it as well as it should of.
2) The game actual takes a lot less skill then I thought it did originally. The best stratagy to beat the enemy is to just rush up on them and constantly kick them or throw them as they try to get up, which allows them to not even get a hit on you. That being said, the enemy can do the same thing to you, which I guess if far, but I feel it makes this game into a sprint to see who can know who down first, which isn't exactly a great idea for combat, espically for a Beat'm-Up.
3) I actually kind of dig the soundtrack :). My favorite is the main theme that plays as you explore the world, as it's rather up beat and makes the grind kind of bareable... just a little though :@ .
4) The only power up needed to rip the game a new one is Dragon's Feet... NUFF SAID!
So yeah, I guess I still didn't like the game, even on the second playthrough. Now before you go all crazy on me and tell me that I should be easier on it for being an older game, hear me out:
Another game that decided to fallow a style very similar to River City Ransom was Zelda II. I know a good amount of people don't like game for things like an crazy save and lives system as well as the amount of grinding, but Zelda II has a solid 5 elements it had done better the RCR did (I will not include story because that just isn't far):
1) It used a level up system that was simple and made sense, along with allowing the player to decided on what stat he wanted to devote himself to. It takes out the exparamentation and the randomness of wasting money on random food that you might not gain anything from.
2) Zelda II's combat is just better. I would say Zelda II's combat is more like a Beat'm Up then River City Ransom is, and even though the combat is hard, it's a lot more engaging then simiply mashing the kick button until something dies or rushing the boss and kicking them while they are down. To simply put it, Zelda II's combat is engaging and fun where RCR is Repetative and Boring. Plus, when you die in Zelda II, most of the time, it's because you didn't prepare yourself well enough for the encounter you where about to come across, where RCR has you die because you got cheap shotted for once. Also on the note of dieing, at least when you die in Zelda 2, you know that after your 3 lives it's game over, and BOSSES DON'T REAPPEAR AFTER YOU HAVE GOTTEN A GAME OVER (Yeah I still am upset about that)!!!
3) Despite the fact both games are rather Grind Heavy, Zelda II is actually much less grind heavy then RCR, and this is why: Zelda 2 is a large adventure that is supossed to take multipule sit downs and the game never forces you to grind. If you just fight every fight you encounter and do every daungon, as long as you know what to do on certian enemys, you actually don't need to grind at all. RCR on the other hand is a very short game that can be beaten in under 15 minutes if you know what you are doing and are at max level, the problem is the game takes forever to get even high enough to take that time to get that high. It's just a pain really...
4) Bosses are really inconsistant and aren't very impressive. In Zelda II, bosses are big and very different from the enemies you fought in the game. In fact, even a good chunck of the enemies are vastly different from on another, but this game just has the same type of fighter for everything, except maybe with a certian type of enemy being smarter, stronger, or come in a group of two. It's just not very impressive and as long as you nail the first hit on the bosses and knock them down before you get knocked down, they are pretty big pushovers.
5) That last and more important factor, I feel Zelda II has actually aged a lot better then RCR. I mean, yes, the save system and lives system is terrible, but everything else about the game works well in to context of the way games are today. The game is challanging and would make for a intersting remake if Nintendo decided to freshen up issues like the save system and get ride of the lives, and bring it up to snuff as a 3D Classics title like they did with Excite Bike, but they won't.
RCR just doesn't hold up very well in today's standards and with issues like gameplay flaws and a desprate attampt at extending it's gameplay time, it just makes the package feel it's trying to do to many things. I mean, the things it's trying to do are great, but it's doing them without thinking them through, and thus makes the things not very good. I feel if it got a nice remake and updated everything, the game could be very good and maybe if I had played it back when it first came out, I might of liked it more and looked at this playthrough as a trip down nostalgia lane, but as I always say, nostalgia sometimes blinds the truth and the truth is, there are better games that does what RCR tried to do better...
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Kikori on October 31, 2011, 12:46:02 PM
What the **** are these scripts? In the original Japanese version I'm playing, Kunio (Alex) does not say anything to himself like "I'm starved" at all! In stores, characters do talk, but the script seems completely different; what they say in the sushi bar is totally unfamiliar to me. Japanese texts are also intentionally comical and weird. For instance, heart marks are used instead of periods, which is often seen in today's cell phone text messages between young Japanese.
I also noticed that not only texts, but also graphics are somewhat different. For example, Kunio wears a student's wear in the original version, and the sign of the sushi bar is in Japanese.
Another point where I think this game was ahead of it's time is that, like many Western games such as Fallout 3, players can change the difficulty level at any time, which is still not common among Japanese games. This feature would be welcome for many players of this grind heavy game.
One of my favorite things about SPVTW was leveling up until my character was a beast and then being able to fly through the stages pummeling people like a dump truck with a rocket attached to it. I'm hoping I'll see a noticeable difference after leveling up my character, because so far i've been on the receiving end of the beatdowns.
Oh don't worry, you will. You don't level up by actually fighting enemies, but you use the money that they drop to buy items to up your stats. In true old school fashion they don't tell you anything about what the items do though, but thats what gamefaqs is for if you'd rather just know instead of finding out.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Kikori on October 31, 2011, 01:47:13 PM
Are these pictures really from River City Ransom? I watched videos of River City Ransom on YouTube, but I didn't see any monologues.
By the way, yet another difference between the original Japanese version and River City Ransom is the number of difficult levels. River City Ransom has two: NOVICE and ADVANCED, but the Japanese version has three: EASY, NORMAL, and DIFFICULT. I've read that when Japanese games (especially old ones) are localized for the Western market, they tend to become more difficult because Western gamers appreciate difficult games, which might be partial reason why RFN crews often mention brutality of many 8-bit games.
What the **** are these scripts? In the original Japanese version I'm playing, Kunio (Alex) does not say anything to himself like "I'm starved" at all! In stores, characters do talk, but the script seems completely different; what they say in the sushi bar is totally unfamiliar to me. Japanese texts are also intentionally comical and weird. For instance, heart marks are used instead of periods, which is often seen in today's cell phone text messages between young Japanese.
I also noticed that not only texts, but also graphics are somewhat different. For example, Kunio wears a student's wear in the original version, and the sign of the sushi bar is in Japanese.
Another point where I think this game was ahead of it's time is that, like many Western games such as Fallout 3, players can change the difficulty level at any time, which is still not common among Japanese games. This feature would be welcome for many players of this grind heavy game.
One of my favorite things about SPVTW was leveling up until my character was a beast and then being able to fly through the stages pummeling people like a dump truck with a rocket attached to it. I'm hoping I'll see a noticeable difference after leveling up my character, because so far i've been on the receiving end of the beatdowns.
Oh don't worry, you will. You don't level up by actually fighting enemies, but you use the money that they drop to buy items to up your stats. In true old school fashion they don't tell you anything about what the items do though, but thats what gamefaqs is for if you'd rather just know instead of finding out.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: marty on November 01, 2011, 12:14:39 AM
River City Ransom has been one of my favorite games for nearly 20 years.
I recall the first time playing RCR. My friend, Colin, had just gotten a new game so I rushed up the street to see what it was. Six hours later, with a splitting headache induced by sitting 4 feet from a TV, I went home for dinner with a mind on begging my parents for a videogame--the best videogame.
RCR was the first game I played that felt like a self contained world--there were schools and shops, baddies and good guys, secrets and tricks and I was free to see them all. Final Fantasy had a lot of these things but they weren't REAL--not like in RCR. FF is detailed, but it's also abstract--you play in that world from afar.
The world of River City is big and colorful and has it's own style. When I kick someone, it's visceral, loud and funny. The bugged out eyes, BARF!, that smarts, or gangs simply running away. The game plays out at a more relaxed pace with breaks for shopping and powering up between battles. And even the pace of the combat has a bit of comedic timing--the pauses between hitting someone once and the ability to hit them again feels exaggerated. Watching someone get hit with a slow moving projectile and get knocked out is satisfying and silly.
The world is has a lot of charm to it, too. The shops have their own flair and personality, the characters and their monologues-- even the font was unlike other games--wider and rounder, lighthearted, like the rest of the game. Enemies also fight differently depending on what gang they're associated with--Squids can't take a punch but are brutal and merciless (and have chains). Cowboys are a little more sturdy but aren't nearly as aggressive. The little touches of personality go a long way when it comes to fleshing out a setting.
Also adding to the charm is one of the best 8-bit soundtracks to ever grace a cartridge. The rockabilly over world theme is super catchy and the boss fight music is great too. The Dragon Twin theme (also in double dragon) is classic VG music. Roxy's Theme has a great, haunting melody. There are some cool remixes of a lot of these songs on youtube, if your so inclined.
Going back and playing the game now, I have a hard time seeing the faults with the controls or the jumping because it all seems so normal--I've probably played this game for hundreds of hours and never really quit playing it. I have stopped doodling out notes for it and making maps and item charts and such but it's always been one of my go-to games so the actual mechanics of the game don't phase me. I will admit that leveling up, which is necessary to beat the game, can get monotonous since the combat options don't really open up until you are really powerful.
The difficulty curve of the game is also pretty much wrong, too. I find that it's nearly impossible to fight "fair" and have a shot at progressing until you are really strong; and at that point, it's more or less a self imposed difficulty. I think this is something game designers still struggle with (especially in action games with RPG elements)--the skill of the player and attributes of the character outpace how difficult the game gets. Still, I think the satisfaction of taking a character from dead-meat to killing-machine is there.* There is something really great about facing gangs that I used to run from and being able to thoroughly stomp them (literally, with Fatal Steps).
While the use of skill might get uneven, I think the game supports strategy pretty well. When you start off as a weakling, you only have to fight through 2 screens before you get to the first mall and a chance to buy Dragon's Feet or Stone Hands (one of these is pretty much necessary to get anywhere in the game without a ton of grinding). But after that, you can either farm either weaker gangs and bosses to level up or run ahead and try your hand at fighting tougher enemies that drop more cash. I think there's a good element of risk/reward to this sort of gameplay that allows one to come up with their own strategy. Even things like adding moves (and certain items i.e. Texas Boots) takes away inventory space so you can't have as many healing items on hand.
While the game isn't littered with secrets (just Merlin's Mystery Shop), I do like the sense of discovery you get from trying out different foods and items--yes, I don't think it was ever 'fair' that some stats are pretty useless or that some items are more efficient than others, but I noticed that I've always tended to try out different items rather than buffing one stat with the same item**. There's also the screwing around aspect that makes multiplayer a blast--team kill is on so you have to be careful where you throw enemies and weapons and when you acro-circus. (If anyone ever updated this game, they could take a page from the Super Smash Bros. playbook and up the clutter a bit to make the fights more hectic and dynamic--)there's nothing quite like getting a KO because you kicked a trash-can at someone really, really hard.
I'll admit that the game isn't perfect. You do have to fight pretty dirty if you want to stand a chance early on and the game loses a lot of it's challenge once you get your stats and abilities up. The game could benefit greatly from some flair, too. I'm sure there are other criticisms to be made that I'm blind to. At its worst, I feel this game is a relic from a simpler time. But at it's best, it's warm and charming, where the sheer dadaist joy of whaling on enemies with a tire trumps a little grind and a few awkward jumps, where blissful chip-tunes still fill your head when you turn the TV off. I've never thought of River City Ransom as the perfect game, it just turns out that it's been the perfect game for me.
PS I also own River City Ransom EX and prefer the NES version. RCR eX has more moves and a "broader" story but the balance of the game is way worse than the original. There is also one gang that each member drops $7 or so when KO'd so grinding just turns into running around until you find that gang.
*I noticed this recently when playing a Tiger Woods game--that building up my character into a super golfer (by buying winning tournaments, playing well, earning sponsorships, and buying stat improving equipment) was way more interesting than playing as the super golfer once my stats were maxed out. **In the GBA version, River City Ransom EX, you can only get your Stamina Maxed once per item forcing you to take different items to boost your stats.
PPS Go ride a tire.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: Lithium on November 01, 2011, 02:41:52 AM
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #20 - River City Ransom - Official Discussion
Post by: gojira on November 02, 2011, 06:49:47 PM
I'm just going to say I don't really like this game. I love brawlers like the Ninja Turtles games and Double Dragon. When it comes to these types of games I want an eventful ride through cool levels. The characters and locations are pretty bland and the whole grinding aspect is a turn off for me.
