Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Stogi on September 21, 2011, 12:43:50 AM
Title: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 21, 2011, 12:43:50 AM
I was going to write a big article but I'm tired.
So I'm just going to say this...
The Film Industry is destined to meet a point where innovation will cease to exist. Despite smell-o-vision, taste-o-vision, feel-o-vision, the highest fidelity sound and video, CGI actors past the uncanny valley, there will be a point where we reach the limit of passive entertainment.
On the other hand, the Game Industry is destined to continually innovate. The way we interact with the world, with computers will always change and progress. There will never be a point where we stop at a level of interaction.
Though there are many other points, it is for those reasons alone that the Game Industry will topple the Film Industry and provide the more awe-inspiring moments we attribute to film today. There is no uncertainty about it.
People will forever love film. The passive nature of it will always fit a part of our lives. This is similar to how listening to music will never diminish because we play it.
Still, considering the difference in scales of innovation, games are going to provide the more visceral experiences. They may not account for the greatest stories ever told, but they will be more memorable, more tangible and simply put, more addicting than any other. There will be a point where games will feel like dreams or nightmares and nothing can beat that.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Oblivion on September 21, 2011, 12:53:16 AM
Hm. Can I steal this debate for my Speech & Debate class?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 21, 2011, 12:55:39 AM
Uwe Boll is the gaming industry's ace in the hole.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 21, 2011, 12:56:36 AM
Oblivion sure.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Oblivion on September 21, 2011, 01:01:40 AM
Thanks. And btw, I completely agree. I never really thought about before you brought it up, but now that I think about it, it seems obvious. Now there's just the question about how long it will take film and games to reach that point. I'd say 50 years.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 21, 2011, 01:08:33 AM
50 years seems quite off the cuff, but whatever...I don't have a better guess.
I was going to write up a big article and provide historical and theoretical examples, but I think it is unneeded. It is pretty obvious.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Oblivion on September 21, 2011, 01:18:45 AM
Well, I figured that we'd have 3D for another 15-20 years before we start getting stuff like hologram movies. Maybe another 15-20 before it hits a stalemate?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Khushrenada on September 21, 2011, 02:29:33 AM
I like this topic. I'm going to bookmark it and when I've got a bit more time, I'm going to come back and argue in favor of film.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 21, 2011, 02:47:22 AM
Arbitrarily?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on September 21, 2011, 05:05:31 AM
Don't games already outgross movie releases?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 21, 2011, 05:11:39 AM
Yeah but I think that was only in the UK.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 21, 2011, 05:24:49 AM
Also your average game cost about 4-5x as much as a movie ticket or a DVD/BRD copy, so unless Games are out grossing Movies 4-5:1 then I don't find it a fair comparison.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Ceric on September 21, 2011, 11:47:00 AM
Also your average game cost about 4-5x as much as a movie ticket or a DVD/BRD copy, so unless Games are out grossing Movies 4-5:1 then I don't find it a fair comparison.
But, unlike a movie ticket , a game you buy once and serve the whole family. I would stick with DVD/BRD which its mostly 1-3 times for equivalent lifecycle points.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 21, 2011, 03:41:41 PM
I'm not talking about money. That is bound to happen regardless.
I'm talking about what people will prefer....what they will look forward to more. Instead of someone saying they can't wait to see ____. They will say they can't wait to play ____.
And it all comes down to passive vs. interactive. People prefer interactivity. Someone would rather play, then watch. It is only a matter of time before innovations in the gaming world leaves the Film industry way, way behind. Just look in the past decade what has happened to both industries.
The Film Industry's greatest achievement are CGI, Motion Capture, IMAX, and 3D.
The Game Industry's greatest achievements are CGI, Motion Capture, HD, Motion Controllers, Touchscreens, Cameras, Microphones, 3D, Online and Voice Chat.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 21, 2011, 04:25:01 PM
If were are solely talking about time spent and not dollar, then yes, eventually the gaming industry will surpass the movie industry.
Evetually I wouldn't be surprised they became 2 sides of the same coin. Interactive movies, like Call of Duty Games (oh no he di'nt.... oh yes i did), where you take an active part in the movie but all the events and conversations around you are entirely scripted.
Avatar 5: Universe Expanded now in iMaxVR3D you get to shoot the turret guns and have your own avatar, but you are just a cog in an already scripted machine and the story progresses around you.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Ceric on September 21, 2011, 05:19:27 PM
I disagree.
To make my point I will point to Sports. In mainstream sports very few people seek the opportunity to play there favorite sports like they seek the opportunity to watch them. People want to be engaged but few people want to be engaged in such a way that they risk failure. Have to really have there skin in the game and make an investment.
People like to be told stories. To hear about adventure. To romanticize about how it would be if it was them. Conjure where the story could go next. Fill in the missing details. Most of all they don't want to work for these items. Which games have you do just by being interactive.
Most People don't want to make decisions in there distraction. They have to do that all day in what they do for a living or the results of there life choices. When I get home the last thing I want to do after a hard day of decision making is figure out whats for supper.
In the end a game is nothing more than large pool of decisions at its core. Some games have you make a lot of decisions with few rules, ex. Sanbox games (which are too structureless for my taste). Other games get you very close to that passive experience with few choices like CoD. Unlike a movie where you don't have to make a choice beyond picking the movie.
Another thing more passive media has is a more uniform experience. It is easier to talk about a Movie or Show with someone who has seen as much as you have. Your experience will be very similar allowing you to share a bond and have discussion into the further depth of the work by having a similar base. In Videogames a lot of discussion is around your personal journey to the common points. Someone who sits and grinds the beginning of LoZ2 to max out there stats first will have a different experience then someone speed running it for example.
I believe much like the written word the popularity of Films will maintain. I do see the death of the Movie Theater itself because of home availability and how good the equipment keeps becoming at cheaper prices.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 21, 2011, 05:53:02 PM
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In mainstream sports very few people seek the opportunity to play there favorite sports like they seek the opportunity to watch them.
This just doesn't fly. Everyone wants to be a superstar, but no one wants the life associated with becoming a superstar. No one wants to do the hard work. That's why you see very few people seek the opportunity.
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People like to be told stories. To hear about adventure. To romanticize about how it would be if it was them. Conjure where the story could go next. Fill in the missing details.
People like to hear stories because they wish it was them is exactly the reason why anyone would jump at the chance of experiencing those adventures for themselves. Would you rather watch Star Wars or be a jedi?
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Most People don't want to make decisions in there distraction. They have to do that all day in what they do for a living or the results of there life choices.
So are you saying people would rather kick back and watch Batman than be Batman simply because they come home from work stressed? That's ridiculous.
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In the end a game is nothing more than large pool of decisions at its core.
No it's not or at least it doesn't have to be. I think you are not using your imagination. I'm imagining games as a gateway to freedom to do whatever you want. I'm imagining the Holodeck, an interactive world where you can do anything or be anyone. I think you are imagining 'First Kid'.
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Another thing more passive media has is a more uniform experience.
This sentence helps prove my point.
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I believe much like the written word the popularity of Films will maintain.
Me too. As will as music and paintings and opera and sculpting.....etc.
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Evetually I wouldn't be surprised they became 2 sides of the same coin.
I can definitely see this happening. The movie will allow you to play bit parts like one of the horsemen charging in LOTR or like you said, one the Na'vi in Avatar.
Still...most movies won't be like this mostly because the director won't allow them to be.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Ceric on September 21, 2011, 10:34:53 PM
In mainstream sports very few people seek the opportunity to play there favorite sports like they seek the opportunity to watch them.
This just doesn't fly. Everyone wants to be a superstar, but no one wants the life associated with becoming a superstar. No one wants to do the hard work. That's why you see very few people seek the opportunity.
Yes, because I didn't say anything about being a superstar I said " seek the opportunity to play there favorite sports" As in Play in a recreational league, with friends, amateur etc.
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People like to be told stories. To hear about adventure. To romanticize about how it would be if it was them. Conjure where the story could go next. Fill in the missing details.
People like to hear stories because they wish it was them is exactly the reason why anyone would jump at the chance of experiencing those adventures for themselves. Would you rather watch Star Wars or be a jedi?
Watch Star Wars.
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Most People don't want to make decisions in there distraction. They have to do that all day in what they do for a living or the results of there life choices.
So are you saying people would rather kick back and watch Batman than be Batman simply because they come home from work stressed? That's ridiculous.
Yes, I am. If you say that you have never come home after a stressful day and just wanted to zonk out I wouldn't believe you.
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In the end a game is nothing more than large pool of decisions at its core.
No it's not or at least it doesn't have to be. I think you are not using your imagination. I'm imagining games as a gateway to freedom to do whatever you want. I'm imagining the Holodeck, an interactive world where you can do anything or be anyone. I think you are imagining 'First Kid'.
Lets Imagine a Holodeck. I could be anything I want to. Thats a lot of possible choices. What do I want to do more choices. Interact with what part of the Environment. More Choices. Back to at its core its all nothing but choices. Life is a series of choices. The closer something gets to life the more choices you have to make. Using my Imagination makes it even more decisions and choices because now I'm not only what I'm literally are I'm also what I'm interpreting myself and surroundings as. Do I want to be a Dinosaur? A robot? A turtle? Maybe you should be the Turtle? Do I bring friends or do I make friends to play with? SHould they be tall? Should they Be Human? Should I give them Backstories? Freedom means choice. Freedoms means decisions. "Freedom- The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint." Making something from scratch means tuning everything.
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Another thing more passive media has is a more uniform experience.
This sentence helps prove my point.
That you like to take things out of context?
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I believe much like the written word the popularity of Films will maintain.
Me too. As will as music and paintings and opera and sculpting.....etc.
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Evetually I wouldn't be surprised they became 2 sides of the same coin.
I can definitely see this happening. The movie will allow you to play bit parts like one of the horsemen charging in LOTR or like you said, one the Na'vi in Avatar.
Still...most movies won't be like this mostly because the director won't allow them to be.
Let me re-sum up
1. People who Watch sports don't really play at any level in general. 2. People in general are pretty fried by the time the get through there obligations and don't have the mental reserve to want to seek out interactivity. 3. Games are literally nothing but logic under there. 4. Passive media have uniform experiences because they are rigid and allow people to relate more concisely because of it. 5. See death of Theater and the continuation of the media through other distribution.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: nickmitch on September 21, 2011, 11:02:57 PM
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So are you saying people would rather kick back and watch Batman than be Batman simply because they come home from work stressed? That's ridiculous.
You mean, would I rather kick back and watch Batman or spend hours running and running from the police while being shot at after having to fight a room full of guys armed to the teeth with knives and a machine guns while chasing a clown or sit back and watch Batman after a long day's work? In a holodeck world, you'll soon learn that hunting vampires, fighting terrorists and winning the Superbowl are tiring to say the least. If I'm trying to relax, being a fucking Jedi isn't gonna calm my nerves.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 21, 2011, 11:06:58 PM
But it will let you resolve some anger issues related to that long day at work. and then you'll truly be able to relax.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 22, 2011, 12:11:38 AM
We are taking things where they don't need to be. Let's get back to Passive vs. Interactive.
Reminisce about your favorite child hood moments. Where you watching something or doing something?
If you could choose between watching a documentary about a country and travelling to that country, which one would you choose?
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1. People who Watch sports don't really play at any level in general. 2. People in general are pretty fried by the time the get through there obligations and don't have the mental reserve to want to seek out interactivity. 3. Games are literally nothing but logic under there. 4. Passive media have uniform experiences because they are rigid and allow people to relate more concisely because of it.
1. Yes, people don't play any sports at all because professionals do. 2. People who work have hobbies, social gatherings, other interests other than work. 3. The fact that you don't want a Holodeck is a lie. 4. Relating to passive media isn't as fun as relating to experience. Telling you about my trip to Tanzania is far more interesting then telling you about Terminator 3.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Khushrenada on September 22, 2011, 12:45:52 AM
Is a holodeck even a game anymore or is it just a virtual experience?
What precisely makes a game? Take Phoenix Wright. To me, that is more an interactive novel. The only game part is figuring out what item to select to continue the story. It's classified as a video game but is it?
Some of what you are describing doesn't sound like a video game but a brand new form of entertainment born out of video games. Sort of like how the photo camera led to the movie projector.
In the past two years, I've probably been watching more movies in my life than I have all the years up to that point. At least it feels that way. The trade off has been that I've been playing a lot less of video games, despite the many innovations you've mentioned. In fact, I've been watching films from as far back as silent movies in 1915 to the present day with The King's Speech and Arthur.
Have I missed gaming? A bit. I still get urges to revisit past games I've already played. But that to me is much the same way as getting the urge to rewatch a movie or tv show you've seen before.
I agree with you that as far as video games go, they can create an experience equal to movies or higher right now. But a virtual experience isn't everything. I can't say I've really been moved or touched by a video game like a movie. I can't recall any video game opening up my viewpoint on a subject like movies have done. I'd be curious what you'd recommend of such instances.
For some reason, after seeing this topic, I was reminded of the series Star Trek: Enterprise. This series was set before the invention of the holodeck. On the ship, crew members would have a movie night. But the wierd thing is, they never showed anyone playing video games. It's kind of odd that a show about the future would make no mention of it. Surely, games must have been on some kind of path towards the holodeck experience. If so, it's not mentioned. I just find that kind of funny. Regardless, this is just an off-topic point.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 22, 2011, 01:26:55 AM
I think the term game has a connotation that sounds childish and has to include fun. It's old and needs to be revamped. I think a better name for games, for our discussion at least, is interactive entertainment. But that is pretty broad and needs some explanation.
A game is interactive entertainment that allows you to actively compare, compete in or manipulate an experience.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Sundoulos on September 22, 2011, 01:35:02 AM
For some reason, after seeing this topic, I was reminded of the series Star Trek: Enterprise. This series was set before the invention of the holodeck. On the ship, crew members would have a movie night. But the wierd thing is, they never showed anyone playing video games. It's kind of odd that a show about the future would make no mention of it. Surely, games must have been on some kind of path towards the holodeck experience. If so, it's not mentioned. I just find that kind of funny. Regardless, this is just an off-topic point.
The only times I can recall Star Trek referencing video gaming in any form was simply to show how dangerous and addictive they were. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)) Also, there was Lt. Barclay and his obsession with living out his fantasies on the holodeck. Most any other games that they did show were mostly forms of gambling. :)
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: UncleBob on September 22, 2011, 01:45:04 AM
What precisely makes a game? Take Phoenix Wright. To me, that is more an interactive novel. The only game part is figuring out what item to select to continue the story. It's classified as a video game but is it?
What's the difference between selecting the right options to advance in Phoenix Wright vs. selecting the right options to advance in a turn-based RPG like the original Final Fantasy?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Khushrenada on September 22, 2011, 02:37:16 AM
A fair question. That's why I'm asking how does one define a game.
I believe that what defines a game is having a set of objectives and having to complete or achieve them via the tools provided.
This definition should work within both traditional games like sports or board games to video games.
However, The Unagi is defining a game as "interactive entertainment that allows you to actively compare, compete in or manipulate an experience."
I think everyone is going to have their own definition of what makes a game. To me, what he is describing is something that is more than just games.
Let's take another title. I've never played it so I'm sure people will be quick to correct me if I'm wrong but the Endless Ocean games. From what I understand, it does give you some objectives. But if you want, you can just swim around and explore on your own and even make up your own game in the environment provided. Is this a game?
Under The Unagi's definition, it is. Under my definition, it isn't unless you are playing to complete the objectives given. If you're messing around the environment, I don't consider that a game anymore. That would just be virtual entertainment. But that's me,
That said, I still maintain that it will be harder for the games industry to topple the film industry anytime soon. (Although Hollywood definitely seems to be trying hard to let games overtake them with the amount of junk they are releasing these days but that's a different topic altogether.)
And now that I have a base of reference of where The Unagi is coming from and he understands where I'm coming from, I can get more into why I think games will still have a hard time surpassing movies.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 22, 2011, 04:33:11 AM
I don't want to bring this debate back up, but I guess I see games as toys. They can have objectives like Ball-in-a-Cup or simply something to be manipulated like Legos. They can be like Mario, where the point is to get to the end of the level, or like GTA, where you can do whatever you want. And I expect the platform that encompasses them to only broaden as time goes on.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: nickmitch on September 22, 2011, 03:19:48 PM
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If you could choose between watching a documentary about a country and travelling to that country, which one would you choose?
Obviously, one would most often choose to travel unless the country in question was war-torn or otherwise hostile. But the fact remains that travel takes time and money. When you're an adult with a family and other obligations, you gotta get the time off, find someone to take care of the kids, and save up for the tickets/lodging/food. It's also a decision not made on a whim unless you're a millionaire.
Active media might be better or more fun, but you're harshly discrediting passive media. People often are going to want to just kick back and relax. Even with a holodeck, a lot us will still just recreate a nice, warm beach to take a nap on. And even if I could travel the world, I'd probably rather just watch the documentary with the family and be able to go to work the next day.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 22, 2011, 03:37:34 PM
I love passive media. I love music and music is passive. I love art and art is passive. I love books and books are passive.
Does that mean I enjoy listening to music more than making music? Or looking at a painting rather than painting myself? Or reading a book rather than writing?
They go hand in hand, but AS TIME GOES ON (I really can't stress that enough) media will shift from a focus of listening or reading or watching to doing. It will become so hilariously fun to do that no one will prefer passive media. They may like it or even love it, but they won't prefer it.
People will get off work and be like "I really want to fly a jet a right now." Or "I really want to go scuba diving." Or "I really want to shoot a bunch of Zombies in the face." And the experience will be so visceral and so exciting that passive media will pale in comparison.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 22, 2011, 06:54:29 PM
For some reason, after seeing this topic, I was reminded of the series Star Trek: Enterprise. This series was set before the invention of the holodeck. On the ship, crew members would have a movie night. But the wierd thing is, they never showed anyone playing video games. It's kind of odd that a show about the future would make no mention of it. Surely, games must have been on some kind of path towards the holodeck experience. If so, it's not mentioned. I just find that kind of funny. Regardless, this is just an off-topic point.
Not that far off-topic. Star Trek may be set in the future, but it's still produced by old fuddy-duddies who, precisely because of the topic at hand, will never depict video games in a positive light.
I love passive media. I love music and music is passive. I love art and art is passive. I love books and books are passive.
Does that mean I enjoy listening to music more than making music? Or looking at a painting rather than painting myself? Or reading a book rather than writing?
They go hand in hand, but AS TIME GOES ON (I really can't stress that enough) media will shift from a focus of listening or reading or watching to doing. It will become so hilariously fun to do that no one will prefer passive media. They may like it or even love it, but they won't prefer it.
People will get off work and be like "I really want to fly a jet a right now." Or "I really want to go scuba diving." Or "I really want to shoot a bunch of Zombies in the face." And the experience will be so visceral and so exciting that passive media will pale in comparison.
I do believe you are projecting your own preferences onto the population at large. Many people don't have that much energy after work, child raising, and all the other adult responsibilities take their toll.
I also think you're discounting the art aspect of cinema. Speaking of...
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Does that mean I enjoy listening to music more than making music? Or looking at a painting rather than painting myself? Or reading a book rather than writing?
Shouldn't the active counterpoint to watching a movie be filming your own, then, and not playing a holodeck video game?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on September 22, 2011, 07:15:27 PM
That counterpoint for film is unnecessary.
I may be projecting my preferences onto the population but I really see these games becoming so addictive that people will day dream about them at work and can't wait to get back to them. They'll be so fun that sitting back will seem like a waste of time.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: nickmitch on September 22, 2011, 07:55:43 PM
People already do that. It's called World of Warcraft.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 22, 2011, 08:37:22 PM
I think I was confused by how all the other counterpoints were creating vs. consuming.
I read some sci fi books earlier this year that showed a vision of future interactive entertainment. They had both room filling holograms and personal brain-interactive headsets. The main character in one killed time in what amounted to exploration puzzle games, something like today's point and click adventure games only in virtual reality, via a headset. He later looked up reenactments of past events, which began by asking him if he'd rather be an observer or a participant. In another, the (different) main character sat on her couch and watched a holographic movie, but had a character replaced with her own likeness. Both seemed like likely entertainments of the future to me.
I think there would be problems with interactive entertainment that movies wouldn't have. First of all, there's pacing. If you were a participant in the story, moving from scene to scene without actually doing the things that logically must happen between them would be disconcerting. I wouldn't want to sit through one of Indy's lengthy flights around the world with a cage full of chickens for company (an extreme example, I admit), but suddenly going from escaping from bad guys in a fast car to stepping off the airplane (or falling out of it) would just be weird. Also, what about scenes in which your character is absent? A movie can cut to a scene of the emperor gloating that everything is happening as he has foreseen, but a holodeck adventure can't.
I think the future is going to have plenty of both.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 22, 2011, 08:41:58 PM
Not that far off-topic. Star Trek may be set in the future, but it's still produced by old fuddy-duddies who, precisely because of the topic at hand, will never depict video games in a positive light.
Beerman and Braga no longer have control over the franchise ever since Enterprise was cancelled. The 2009 film reboot was the first thing made which was outside of their control, and it shows. From that point onwards Star Trek is now cool and no longer for nerds only. Maybe in a future movie or series we will see some video games being played in it.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: ThePerm on September 23, 2011, 04:58:30 PM
i switched from a game nerd to a movie nerd a couple years ago, i prefer games to not have plotlines. Few cutscenes, just gameplay. I like to absorb plot the metroid way. Movies on the other hand, i like to not be burdened by giving my hands cramps, or having puzzle fatigue.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on September 23, 2011, 05:53:16 PM
Not that far off-topic. Star Trek may be set in the future, but it's still produced by old fuddy-duddies who, precisely because of the topic at hand, will never depict video games in a positive light.
Beerman and Braga no longer have control over the franchise ever since Enterprise was cancelled. The 2009 film reboot was the first thing made which was outside of their control, and it shows. From that point onwards Star Trek is now cool and no longer for nerds only. Maybe in a future movie or series we will see some video games being played in it.
I meant TV and movie execs in general. Video games are the enemy. They compete with TV and movies for time in front of your eyeballs, and we're still a few decades away from the most influential people in the business actually understanding them.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 23, 2011, 09:28:51 PM
Not that far off-topic. Star Trek may be set in the future, but it's still produced by old fuddy-duddies who, precisely because of the topic at hand, will never depict video games in a positive light.
Beerman and Braga no longer have control over the franchise ever since Enterprise was cancelled. The 2009 film reboot was the first thing made which was outside of their control, and it shows. From that point onwards Star Trek is now cool and no longer for nerds only. Maybe in a future movie or series we will see some video games being played in it.
I meant TV and movie execs in general. Video games are the enemy. They compete with TV and movies for time in front of your eyeballs, and we're still a few decades away from the most influential people in the business actually understanding them.
Okay, I see what you're saying. I think our own dear Reggie doesn't really even understand video games for that matter. Didn't he start out at VH1 or making pizzas or something? He won't give us those RPGs we wanted and he expected Metroid Other M to be a multi million seller and he didn't understand why it failed. I think he's the same as those old "fuddy duddys" you were referring to.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Ceric on September 23, 2011, 09:36:54 PM
Pizza Hut and VH1. Reggie could use a local Counter Weight now.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: FloY on October 30, 2011, 01:22:21 AM
i prefer games to movies as well... you get much more immersed..BUT
not everyone can play games... it takes hand and eye coordination...yet everyone can watch movies... see?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 30, 2011, 01:23:35 AM
Not blind people.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: FloY on October 30, 2011, 01:26:53 AM
I think I was confused by how all the other counterpoints were creating vs. consuming.
I read some sci fi books earlier this year that showed a vision of future interactive entertainment. They had both room filling holograms and personal brain-interactive headsets. The main character in one killed time in what amounted to exploration puzzle games, something like today's point and click adventure games only in virtual reality, via a headset. He later looked up reenactments of past events, which began by asking him if he'd rather be an observer or a participant. In another, the (different) main character sat on her couch and watched a holographic movie, but had a character replaced with her own likeness. Both seemed like likely entertainments of the future to me.
I think there would be problems with interactive entertainment that movies wouldn't have. First of all, there's pacing. If you were a participant in the story, moving from scene to scene without actually doing the things that logically must happen between them would be disconcerting. I wouldn't want to sit through one of Indy's lengthy flights around the world with a cage full of chickens for company (an extreme example, I admit), but suddenly going from escaping from bad guys in a fast car to stepping off the airplane (or falling out of it) would just be weird. Also, what about scenes in which your character is absent? A movie can cut to a scene of the emperor gloating that everything is happening as he has foreseen, but a holodeck adventure can't.
I think the future is going to have plenty of both.
I don't disagree with you there. There will be plenty of both, but to get back to the main point, isn't passively watching yourself in a movie still a form of interactivity? It may not be as extreme, but it is still interacting with the film. It's still an experience customized to you, whereas a truly passive medium wants nothing from you except for you to pay attention.
That hybrid I would say leans into interactivity, and again, tells me that truly passive medium will fall to the wayside as interactivity becomes dominant. It may be only a 51/49 split, but it is still dominant and more likely than not, inevitable.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: MrPhishfood on November 14, 2012, 05:55:30 AM
I can't imagine a point in time where films will cease to exist. When a story needs to start, progress and end in a specific way then films would still need to be there for that.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: lolmonade on November 14, 2012, 12:38:02 PM
How old are you?
I don't ask because i'm implying an immaturity gap, I ask because I want to know where you are at in your life where you want most of your experiences to be interactive.
My counterargument isn't that passive media (tv/movies) is better than interactive (video games), but instead that passive media may be more enjoyable/satisfying for a person based on what their lifestyle currently is.
When I was between the ages of 10-22, video games were nearly all of the media I consumed because I loved the idea of being part of the game, having my actions impact the outcome, and immersing myself in the story I was helping to shape.
Since i've gotten out of college, I've found a career, gotten married, and had a son. That takes A LOT of time out of your day, and leaves you with very little free time to do whatever you want with. As much as I love video games and appreciate the same things I used to love about them, I find it frustrating to get into a game for 10 minutes before my son needs a new diaper or I need to keep him from grabbing things. Once he's asleep, I maybe have a few hours of free time at night, and I want to share time with my wife.
While I love playing games, sometimes it can be more frustrating getting into a game for a 1/2 hr - 1 hr before having to turn it off than even playing one. I find myself appreciating tv and movies more because it takes no more effort than consuming it and determining whether or not I enjoy it, and I can easily get a story open and shut in that same time span, leaving me much more satisfied.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Oblivion on November 14, 2012, 12:53:14 PM
I've never felt that frustration from only playing a game for an hour at a time. Hell, if I could only play for a half an hour, that'd still be fine with me. I'm still getting enjoyment out of it, yes?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Ian Sane on November 14, 2012, 01:53:09 PM
I typically try to allocate a few hours for a gaming session. For a classic game a half hour block is fine. New games however might through some long cutscene that eats up a big chunk of that half hour. Many new games also take forever to get going, so a quick play in the middle of the game is fine but to start the game you need a few hours. And then if they involve save points you're at the mercy of their placement.
Videogame stories suck. Right now the best writers stick to film and maybe television. When that talent moves to videogames then we'll see a big shift. But for now, no one wanting a good story goes to videogames. They're on par with hack popcorn movies at best.
The big limiting factor of a videogame is that skill is required to proceed. You can get stuck, which never happens in a movie. The solution I suppose is to make the game stupidly easy or let you skip ahead if you get stuck. However both ideas would severely compromise the gameplay. The less you require from the player, the less you are making use of the videogame media. So then it effectively becomes... a movie. To really make the most of the storytelling possibilities of a game you need to make the player experience the story directly and to do that well you need to make the game less accomodating to unskilled players so you lose the mainstream appeal that would allow videogames to topple movies.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: lolmonade on November 14, 2012, 02:01:17 PM
I've never felt that frustration from only playing a game for an hour at a time. Hell, if I could only play for a half an hour, that'd still be fine with me. I'm still getting enjoyment out of it, yes?
Maybe it's from the games I typically want to play. I have a pile of RPGs I want to sink my teeth into, but the time isn't available to make significant progress in the game. I've been playing a lot of NFL blitz, UFC Undisputed 3, and recently the Bloodrayne side scroller lately just because they can be played in pieces. Its still enjoyable, but I look at my shelf and see a stack of games I'd rather be playing if I had enough time to make progress in the game/story.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Louieturkey on November 14, 2012, 02:36:11 PM
I've never felt that frustration from only playing a game for an hour at a time. Hell, if I could only play for a half an hour, that'd still be fine with me. I'm still getting enjoyment out of it, yes?
Maybe it's from the games I typically want to play. I have a pile of RPGs I want to sink my teeth into, but the time isn't available to make significant progress in the game. I've been playing a lot of NFL blitz, UFC Undisputed 3, and recently the Bloodrayne side scroller lately just because they can be played in pieces. Its still enjoyable, but I look at my shelf and see a stack of games I'd rather be playing if I had enough time to make progress in the game/story.
Wow, you sound just like me. I'm actually playing FFXIII-2 right now at the expense of my sleep. Before it, I hadn't played a game in over a month that wasn't a quick play game. I usually spend all my time with my wife and my son when I'm not at work.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 14, 2012, 02:51:11 PM
Do you think the Off-TV play functionality of the Wii U might help with that?
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: Stogi on November 14, 2012, 05:12:26 PM
If time wasn't a factor, what would you choose?
But that question is still not what I'm proposing. I am saying due to innovation, the game (i.e. interactive) industry will become dominant over the film (passive) industry over time.
Film will continue to invent things I can't even think of or fathom, but that rate of innovation will like be dwarfed by the interactive industry due to rate of technological components in general.
That last part I added just for clarity. The interactive industry has a wider range of information/technology to harvest than does the passive industry, and because of that, the rate of innovation is likely to be higher. Now here is the crucial part which is merely speculation, if the rate of innovation is higher than that industry will likely garner more attention, more wealth and ultimately more prestige.
Now the only drawback I have is if something similar to the book and film industry happened, whereby a technology came around that engulfed the former passive medium. I don't know what will engulf film, but even if this medium appears, it is likely to include some sort of interactivity.
BTW, I am 25.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: lolmonade on November 14, 2012, 06:57:58 PM
Do you think the Off-TV play functionality of the Wii U might help with that?
I think in some ways it will, but I also wonder how many games will actually utilize this feature in the future.
I also know my wife and I are excited to use the TVii features, so my other complication is that I'll probably have to fight her for it when she's using it for the multimedia features ;D
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: lolmonade on November 14, 2012, 07:04:16 PM
But that question is still not what I'm proposing. I am saying due to innovation, the game (i.e. interactive) industry will become dominant over the film (passive) industry over time.
Film will continue to invent things I can't even think of or fathom, but that rate of innovation will like be dwarfed by the interactive industry due to rate of technological components in general.
That last part I added just for clarity. The interactive industry has a wider range of information/technology to harvest than does the passive industry, and because of that, the rate of innovation is likely to be higher. Now here is the crucial part which is merely speculation, if the rate of innovation is higher than that industry will likely garner more attention, more wealth and ultimately more prestige.
Now the only drawback I have is if something similar to the book and film industry happened, whereby a technology came around that engulfed the former passive medium. I don't know what will engulf film, but even if this medium appears, it is likely to include some sort of interactivity.
BTW, I am 25.
Ok, well to more directly answer your question: No, I don't think the game industry is going to topple the film industry. I think you're comparing apples-to-oranges a little bit simply because they are consumed in two different ways. If anything, I see movies implementing interactive elements to keep audiences compelled in certain situations.
Title: Re: The Game Industry is destined to topple the Film Industry
Post by: NWR_insanolord on November 14, 2012, 09:26:39 PM
Do you think the Off-TV play functionality of the Wii U might help with that?
I think in some ways it will, but I also wonder how many games will actually utilize this feature in the future.
I also know my wife and I are excited to use the TVii features, so my other complication is that I'll probably have to fight her for it when she's using it for the multimedia features ;D
Of the 8 games I'm going to have at launch, only ZombiU and Nintendo Land don't have Off-TV play. I think most any multiplatform game will have it as an option, at least.
