Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Drizzt on June 18, 2011, 05:23:29 PM
Title: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Drizzt on June 18, 2011, 05:23:29 PM
Just want to now what you guys think about this. I think they should but knowing Nintendo it's unlikely.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: ShyGuy on June 18, 2011, 11:27:26 PM
Unless they have a breakout 3DS hit in the next few months, they will be forced by the market to either drop the price or increase the value for Holiday 2011.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 18, 2011, 11:51:43 PM
I'd be surprised if they lower the price before the end of the year.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on June 19, 2011, 12:22:26 AM
No.
Sony still has to prove that they can beat Nintendo in the handheld market and having more powerful hardware isn't going to do that.
I plan on buying both eventually, but not until they're under $200. I'd prefer to pay $150 though I'll probably fold at $180. 3DS is far more likely to hit that sooner so I'll probably end up buying it first.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Shaymin on June 19, 2011, 01:53:13 PM
Unless they have a breakout 3DS hit in the next few months, they will be forced by the market to either drop the price or increase the value for Holiday 2011.
So in other words, Mario Kart means nothing will change?
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 19, 2011, 08:12:45 PM
No, Nintendo has a great lineup of games coming which can tower over Sony's potential Vita launch. If Nintendo feels threatened, they will probably bundle a game with the system or do some kind of other added value bundle with some eShop game(s) pre-installed in the system.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: nickmitch on June 19, 2011, 08:20:01 PM
The 3DS's lineup is still paltry at best. Nintendo just needs to have a stellar lineup for the end of the year. Sony is gonna try to have all of their big guns ready at the Vita launch, and Nintendo can have a serious mismatch on their hands. For the same price, I can have the system that a couple people have but they don't play because there's no games for it, or this brand new system with the big releases on it. Nintendo will definitely counter the Vita launch with actual titles. A price drop would only make the system and the company look weak to investors.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 19, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
Should Nintendo lower the price of the 3DS? Yes. Should they do it because of the PS Vita? No.
Will they lower the price this year? Absolutely not.
As has already been said, Nintendo will not lower the price this year, but may opt for a Value Added Bundle instead. I think the earliest we will see a price drop of any kind will be around Xmas 2012. But that depends on current sales, software, and/or if there is a revision being planned.
I would love a 3DSXL with a 7" top screen(3DS screen x4 the surface space) and a 6.2" touch screen on the bottom(same screen used for the uMote). But that's probably an idea for a different topic.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on June 20, 2011, 12:18:50 AM
I don't know. A 7" screen seems way too big, even for an XL. 3DS is still a handheld and I can't imagine that set-up working. It'd be like holding 2 WiiU's tablet controllers and I imagine that being rather unwieldy. Also, I don't think the bottom screen can use the same screen as the tablet controller. The bottom screen on 3DS is 4:3 while the tablet controller's screen is 16:9.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Oblivion on June 20, 2011, 12:37:02 AM
I wouldn't mind the touch screen to be the slightly larger size of the DSi screen, but with the boosted resolution.
And I'd like a slightly larger top screen for a better movie viewer experience.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: ymeegod on June 20, 2011, 05:24:28 AM
Kept the price and release a better bundle with a bigger battery. Nintendo went really cheap with the 3DS's battery 1300 mah's. There's 2200's mah same size already that you can buy as replacements but it would be better if nintendo packaged it.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Razorkid on June 20, 2011, 09:48:15 AM
I don't think so. The only thing the 3DS lacks right now is a large library of must-have games. The latter half of this year is going to rectify that. The 3DS is not as overpriced as say, the PS3 was when it launched at $599. So to think that Nintendo will drop the price after only being on the market for a few months without a slew of their heavy hitters released yet is silly. If 3DS sales have not increased significantly by holiday 2012, then you will see the possibility of a value add bundle.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: oohhboy on June 20, 2011, 10:10:34 AM
Price parity and a game would do wonders in non-American territories. With the American dollar tanking for years, most of the prices set don't match local reality. NZ retail is still effectively priced as it was still 1NZD to 0.5USD even as we approach parity or in europe 1 USD= 1 euro which has never been true and it's worse for pounds.
Basically America isn't the only english speaking country out there or the only market besides Japan. This kind of market discrimination only hurts under-developed markets. For this year they should look outside America which will continue to be soft.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 20, 2011, 12:22:33 PM
I don't think so. The 3DS is not as overpriced as say, the PS3 was when it launched at $599.
So to think that Nintendo will drop the price after only being on the market for a few months without a slew of their heavy hitters released yet is silly. If 3DS sales have not increased significantly by holiday 2012, then you will see the possibility of a value add bundle.
3DS and PS3 are two very different over pricings.
3DS is actually over priced. They over estimated it's demand and overcharged for the tech. The profit margin on 3DS is enormous and Nintendo could have easily added little things in to help justify the cost. A larger battery, 3D interior cameras, dual analog & more internal memory to just name a few.
PS3 was actually over spec'd. They packed in too much expensive tech and took a huge loss on it even at $599. It cost too much to both Sony & the consumer. They had an ulterior motive to push and they paid the price. Can't be sure if it was worth it, but Bluray is the standard HD disc format now, so we'll see how that works out for them. Still waiting for that Cell connected living though (where every appliance helps compute) ;) :P:
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Razorkid on June 20, 2011, 04:37:09 PM
I don't think so. The 3DS is not as overpriced as say, the PS3 was when it launched at $599.
So to think that Nintendo will drop the price after only being on the market for a few months without a slew of their heavy hitters released yet is silly. If 3DS sales have not increased significantly by holiday 2012, then you will see the possibility of a value add bundle.
3DS and PS3 are two very different over pricings.
3DS is actually over priced. They over estimated it's demand and overcharged for the tech. The profit margin on 3DS is enormous and Nintendo could have easily added little things in to help justify the cost. A larger battery, 3D interior cameras, dual analog & more internal memory to just name a few.
PS3 was actually over spec'd. They packed in too much expensive tech and took a huge loss on it even at $599. It cost too much to both Sony & the consumer. They had an ulterior motive to push and they paid the price. Can't be sure if it was worth it, but Bluray is the standard HD disc format now, so we'll see how that works out for them. Still waiting for that Cell connected living though (where every appliance helps compute) ;) :P: :
I agree that the 3DS is over priced, just not as over priced as the PS3 at launch. Your points are valid, but what I meant was the 3DS is not priced into the stratosphere as some would like to make it out to be. If it dropped to $199, no one would even cough about the price...and that's only a $50 difference. I feel people at this point are holding out from dropping the extra fifty bucks on principle alone because the games are certainly there between what's been released now and what's been announced to be coming between now and the end of the year. For some, $50 is $50 and they wont't be convinced to dive in until the library is stacked with more excellent games than they can play, and that's cool. For me, the system justified the price.
In comparison, when the PS3 launched, there was no way in hell anyone (outside a select group of people who had a significant amount of recreational money and an hd tv) was gonna buy that system at that price at launch. Regardless of why it was priced that way, it truly was in the stratosphere!
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on June 20, 2011, 05:03:38 PM
I don't think so. The 3DS is not as overpriced as say, the PS3 was when it launched at $599.
So to think that Nintendo will drop the price after only being on the market for a few months without a slew of their heavy hitters released yet is silly. If 3DS sales have not increased significantly by holiday 2012, then you will see the possibility of a value add bundle.
3DS and PS3 are two very different over pricings.
3DS is actually over priced. They over estimated it's demand and overcharged for the tech. The profit margin on 3DS is enormous and Nintendo could have easily added little things in to help justify the cost. A larger battery, 3D interior cameras, dual analog & more internal memory to just name a few.
PS3 was actually over spec'd. They packed in too much expensive tech and took a huge loss on it even at $599. It cost too much to both Sony & the consumer. They had an ulterior motive to push and they paid the price. Can't be sure if it was worth it, but Bluray is the standard HD disc format now, so we'll see how that works out for them. Still waiting for that Cell connected living though (where every appliance helps compute) ;) :P: : :
I agree that the 3DS is over priced, just not as over priced as the PS3 at launch. Your points are valid, but what I meant was the 3DS is not priced into the stratosphere as some would like to make it out to be. If it dropped to $199, no one would even cough about the price...and that's only a $50 difference. I feel people at this point are holding out from dropping the extra fifty bucks on principle alone because the games are certainly there between what's been released now and what's been announced to be coming between now and the end of the year. For some, $50 is $50 and they wont't be convinced to dive in until the library is stacked with more excellent games than they can play, and that's cool. For me, the system justified the price.
In comparison, when the PS3 launched, there was no way in hell anyone (outside a select group of people who had a significant amount of recreational money and an hd tv) was gonna buy that system at that price at launch. Regardless of why it was priced that way, it truly was in the stratosphere!
I held out till they announced that the PS3 was losing BC with the PS2 at that point. Since it was important to me, my PS2 had died, I decided to jump in with the first revision. I have to say once everything was tallied it was a better investment than my Wii. Even though I have enjoyed and own more Wii Games.
I'm hoping that the 3DS will also end up being one of those investments that at the time seems very expensive but, in the long run will really pay off.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 20, 2011, 05:21:46 PM
I know what you meant, but those are still two very different kinds of "overpriced".
PS3 was worth the money depending on what you were using it for. Actually depending on what you were using it for, you were actually getting a pretty good deal for the tech... even @ $599. It was cheaper than putting together a similar machine capable of the same processing abilities.
If you were looking for the most capable Bluray player around(at the time), well.... for an extra $100-$200 you could get a PS3 and have the ability to also play games. It's still the best overall Bluray player you can buy, but you still need to drop an extra $100-$175 for it.
But if you were just wanting to play games.... then it was WAAAAAAY too expensive and definitely overpriced.
3DS is just overpriced. it's all profit and they could have done more with the inflated cost to justify the price through the hardware. They just simply charged more than the sum of the parts are worth, especially when it obvious that they cut corners to save on cost(battery & inward 3D cameras) to maximize profit (~$100 per unit profit and increasing).
edit: If Nintendo thought that they could pull a Wii and sell this thing at a maximum profit price for 3 years, then I think they might be a little disappointed. If they though they could charge $250 because the PSVita was surely gonna come in at $399 or more, then they must be shocked.
All I know is that at $250, the 3DS does NOT have my attention... certainly not with it's current line-up... certainly not at it's current price.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Louieturkey on June 20, 2011, 07:18:08 PM
I agree with BnM. Nintendo should be just dropping the price period. They should not be dropping the price in response to the Vita. That tells people they are scared of the Vita and Nintendo never wants to act scared.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 20, 2011, 07:21:56 PM
I wish people would be a bit more honest about things, we do not know how much profit margin is built in the 3DS, we lots of unconfirmed "insider" information, not to mention anyone with any business know would know profit margin is dictated by much more then just the raw parts, it is being short sighted, and honestly a bit disingenuous to state otherwise. I really doubt Nintendo is make 100+ dollars in profit on 3DS, that seems extremely outrageous and exagerrated. 3DS's lineup is no worse then DS's was a couple months after launch. Also should Nintendo lower the price? Not until they see what PS Vita does, because price drops are a double edged sword, the perceived value of the product can take a hit.
Anyone with an iota of knowledge of the business world will know a products cost/profit margin, especially for electronics, is based upon included software, R&D, advertising, packaging along with retail product margin. So please let's cut the crap about "Profit" being just the hardware, it is dishonest.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 20, 2011, 09:46:17 PM
The total bill of parts & manufacturing for 3DS was "totalled" at about $100 (source (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/127783/20110328/isuppli-3ds-teardown-shows-cost-of-3ds-is-100-dollars.htm)). Assembly per unit is dirt cheap and so is packaging.
Nintendo has been making a killing on DS/i for years. I think the DSL cost Nintendo under $50 for years and they just dropped the price to $99
This means Nintendo has ~$150 PER UNIT to put towards R&D, Advertising, Storage, Shipping, etc etc.. So estimating out a generous $50 per unit for that, means that Nintendo has about a ~$100 profit margin to split amongst itself and retailers.
You're telling me that Nintendo couldn't have spent a little more on a battery, an extra inward camera to make it 3D inward too or an actual game to include and still made a nice profit? Or maybe you just never saw the iSupply breakdown? Either way, the 3DS is overpriced and needs more value added to justify the cost to me. and obviously I'm not alone in this if you look at the 3DS' current sales.
3DS vs DSi $3.50Includes $1.70Includes Battery - Li-ion, 3.7V, 1300mAhBattery - Li-ion, 3.7V, 840mNintendo couldn't spend an extra $1.50 on the battery?
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 20, 2011, 11:55:37 PM
The total bill of parts & manufacturing for 3DS was "totalled" at about $100 (source (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/127783/20110328/isuppli-3ds-teardown-shows-cost-of-3ds-is-100-dollars.htm)). Assembly per unit is dirt cheap and so is packaging.
Nintendo has been making a killing on DS/i for years. I think the DSL cost Nintendo under $50 for years and they just dropped the price to $99
This means Nintendo has ~$150 PER UNIT to put towards R&D, Advertising, Storage, Shipping, etc etc.. So estimating out a generous $50 per unit for that, means that Nintendo has about a ~$100 profit margin to split amongst itself and retailers.
You're telling me that Nintendo couldn't have spent a little more on a battery, an extra inward camera to make it 3D inward too or an actual game to include and still made a nice profit? Or maybe you just never saw the iSupply breakdown? Either way, the 3DS is overpriced and needs more value added to justify the cost to me. and obviously I'm not alone in this if you look at the 3DS' current sales.
3DS vs DSi $3.50Includes $1.70Includes Battery - Li-ion, 3.7V, 1300mAhBattery - Li-ion, 3.7V, 840mNintendo couldn't spend an extra $1.50 on the battery?
3DS sales need to have games available factored in. The fact is that Zelda: OOT is the biggest game released for it so far, and that is a remake. Nintendo has other things they can do before they should even consider lowering the price, perceived value of the product. Handheld systems always tend to be slow starts, DS was slow as well, not as slow but still it was quite slow. Not to mention there have been various other factors out of NIntendo's control such as the earthquake which affected a major marketplace. I'm sorry but calling for price drop before other issues, like, I don't know, GAMES are addressed is short sighted and a poor business move.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: oohhboy on June 21, 2011, 01:32:58 AM
The earthquake is generally a non-factor outside of Japan due to slow sales, it doesn't matter that the factories are running 70 - 80 or 10% if no one is buying. There is nearly a whole planet they could be selling to that isn't "America and Japan". Their continued price discrimination destroys any chance that happening.
Factor in the fact everybody and their mother feel it is over priced, and it doesn't matter whether it is(which it is), it's the perception that it is, even it's traditional markets are going to be sluggish. If there was a Wii like feeding frenzy then even I would argue that they don't need to lower the price, but this isn't the case. Demand is flat, with alternative market prices going down instead of Wii's up.
The price will come down whether one way or another. How they do it is another matter. Whether it will be bundles or rebates or an actual cut remains to be seen, but it has to fall.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 21, 2011, 01:55:36 AM
@GP I think you are addressing the wrong person if you think I'm actually calling for a price drop*. I know a price drop isn't gonna happen and I know the reasons why.
My point is that Nintendo shouldn't have charged that much to begin with, and if they were (which they did), then they could have done more to make it seem worth it. I'm sure that is a major reason lots of people are holding out for a revision. As is, the value @ $250 is not there. The games aren't here yet and too many corners were cut for the hardware to be at that price.
The minimal cost that a 2300mAh battery, an inward facing 3D camera and 4-8GB of internal flash would have had on their profit margin would've go a loooong way towards making the $250 price tag seem worthwhile. Some must have software before the holiday season would also be nice, but by the time that happens now, Vita will be the new hotness on the block and the 3DS still hasn't gotten both of it's feet on the ground running.
3DS' real problem is that they launched half cocked. Software wasn't ready, online wasn't ready, Nintendo just wasn't ready. They rushed it to be part of that last FY and now they are fighting to bring it all together. Now that online is here (Netflix is coming but 3D movies are still nowhere to be found) and must have software is around the corner (software bundles could definitely add value), 3DS has a second chance to make a first impression. But with PSVita coming in at the same price.... it's sorta a wasted head start if Nintendo don't make some big waves just before the holidays.
*and because I know it's gonna get brought up, I want to revise my previous post.
Should Nintendo have launched the 3DS at a lower price? Yes. Should they lower the price now because of the PS Vita? No.
that is what was meant when I originally replied.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Drizzt on June 21, 2011, 10:08:21 AM
One thing that hasn't been brought up yet is how bad the economy is right now. Alot of people are unemployed, and the ones that aren't have to pay their bills before they can justify buying a game system for their kids. With inflation some people just can't afford it.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on June 21, 2011, 10:31:09 AM
Hold on their Bisquick.
Where are the numbers that prove that the 3DS is doing worse then the DS at launch? The Software is stronger. The Number out their is Larger, I'll take the numbers that refute these. Anyone who says the 3DS launch window is weaker or slower then the DS is looking back with rose color glasses. I'll accept Similar.
On your Point BnM. Those numbers you gave in your post my quick Math said that Nintendo did indeed spend $1.80 more on a battery. The 3DS life span is rarely a problem and the recent patch it has gotten better from my own experience. I would argue the cost of any amount of internal Flash is more then the part. We are talking a small form factor device. Where are you going to find the raw real estate for an additional flash chip? Maybe including a bigger SD would have been Nice but its just like a computer and its harddrive. You can always upgrade it relatively simply but its simpler on the 3DS because you don't have to reconfigure. They could have gone with Micro-SD but that wouldn't honestly fit with the markets their trying to appeal to. I like Micro-SD but its to small and easy to lose to be super practical outside of adapters. Not to mention breakable.
I agree with Drizzt. With the economy how it is now in the markets that have normally had more discretionary income many people just can't afford it who could have dropped that type of cash like buying a dinner 2 years ago. I would also argue that for the DS line as well. Unfortunately Inflation marches on at a rapid pace. I'm still trying to figure out how Deflation would be so terrible right now. Wages have not kept with inflation so its becoming harder and harder to get goods to consumers at profitable prices. Nintendo wasn't as sensitive as they should have been to these pressures though how they price in the off markets have shown they never have been.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 21, 2011, 01:28:03 PM
I'm sure that adding a minuscule amount of extra flash to the 3DS wouldn't actually require more space. and even if it did, so what. So the 3DS would have been a millimeter wider, no one would notice.
But knowing that there is 4-8GB of onboard memory at all times means that apps, saves, widgets, DLC etc etc. can be planned for and warez don't have to have size limits. Sure you can always expand and that's fine, but we're talking about Nintendo justifying the price here, not consumers customization options. They could have spent an extra $1.50 per unit on a better battery, an extra $2 on more internal flash and $0.80 more on 1 more vga camera to allow for inwards facing 3D ant their profit margin would still be almost ~$95.
And the biggest thing about the cameras, the flash and the battery, is that if they had spent that little bit extra then, and the 3DS continues to sell, then those are likely all the same parts they will be using for the WiiU and that means that they will be even cheaper 12 months from now. That means for whatever size flash chip they were gonna use in WiiU, it would've been that much cheaper by the time they need to place the order.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 21, 2011, 11:08:54 PM
My cellphone has better graphics, a faster processor and was 50 dollars cheaper. >.< thats becoming a problem.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Oblivion on June 22, 2011, 01:22:56 AM
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on June 22, 2011, 08:24:12 AM
@BlackNMild2k1 - I get what you're saying but I still don't see those additions making much of a difference. For parents, they can't see the extra internal flash memory or the larger capacity battery and an additional analog slider wasn't the tipping point to begin with. For gamers like me and you, we know those additions don't come close to bridging the price gap between the MSRP and what we suspect 3DS is actually worth since we know those parts are relatively cheap. All good things, but hardly the difference maker. For most people, the price is still too high.
Nintendo is still in a good position; they're just getting a big slice of humble pie. 3DS is not and will not be a failure. Vita will not change anything. Sales will undoubtedly rise during the holiday season when people are more willing to drop tons of money especially with the release of big titles like Mario Kart. All will be right with the world though Nintendo should know that they will sell far less than expected because the price of entry is too high, even for the market leader 20+ years running.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 22, 2011, 02:07:27 PM
I'm not trying to start another debate, but my ideas were just some minor last-minute things they could have done if they decided they were gonna raise the price based on fanbase enthusiasm and tell us that's what they were gonna do. A little surprise like "Guess what!? We decided to bump the internal flash in addition to the SD card we pack in... but that's not all!! We also added a 3D camera to the inside lid to that you can do 3D video chat with people on your friends list!! Oh you thought we were done!? Nope, we also added that 2nd analog that all you gamers keep crying about!! and all for the same price that we announced a few short months ago!!" I bet that some of that deflated enthusiasm that they are seeing now could have been minimized even if the majority of it was inevitable because of the price and the lack of games to make most consumers over look it.
And I thought about starting a new thread for this, but I'll just drop it here instead iSupply 3DS cost vs DSi cost (at release) (http://i.imgur.com/pOvUy.png) click pic for larger image
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 22, 2011, 04:01:14 PM
Well I'd love for Nintendo to lower the price, but they're not going to. According to the sales reports in Japan and Europe, 3DS hardware sales have rises in the last week because of Ocarina of Time 3D. Considering Zelda is most popular in North America, I'd say there's about a 100% chance sales have risen here as well.
So if a graphically enhanced port of a decade old Zelda game, from a series that normally does much worse on handhelds then consoles, was able to boast sales during the Summer, which is normally a slow period for hardware sales, imagine what Mario Kart 3DS is going to do this holiday season. And when combined with Super Mario (Mario 64 DS has sold around 8 millions copies so 3D Mario is quite popular on handhelds as well), this is why Nintendo is not going to drop the price anytime soon and has no need.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: SupaKirb on June 22, 2011, 05:17:51 PM
I don't want to sound like I'm totally against a price drop... but I kinda am. I think it's all fair and good to lower this systems price point, but not at this very moment.
People like me, who went to launch and picked the 3DS up, had to pay 250 big ones (plus state tax for me.) It doesn't really seem fair to be honest, with what I call our "Nintendo dedication." I mean look, we bought the system with half of it missing. We didn't have the Internet browser at launch, and we certainly didn't have the eShop. I think that's a big deal, and I wouldn't feel too great to know that I bought this thing at launch for nothing. Granted, it was MY choice to pick the system up right away.
So If this pending price drop does happen, and the unite lowers to the price it was probably supposed to be at from the start, I would like to get something out of owning a 3DS before hand. A couple of free eShop purchases would only scratch the surface, but I would welcome them nonetheless. I'm just saying, anything to show some fan appreciation for the 3DS shouldn't be too much to ask with a price drop of the unit so early. It's in poor taste in my opinion to not offer at least some sort of promotion to current owners if it takes affect.
Anyways, I really think this is a possibility and that's why I took the time to share some initial thoughts. Hey, maybe they should go ahead and sell people the 2DS? I'm sure they could cut the systems selling point by at least 50 bucks with that. ^ ^
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: ThePerm on June 25, 2011, 09:22:21 PM
being that i purposely wasnt an early adopter like I was for the original DS, yes. A price drop would be great. Being competitive is important. If PSP2 is competitively priced and has better graphics then it will hurt 3DS. It is possible to lose a market. I want a shiny red 3DS at a lower price than those who bought it at launch. I bought the original DS and felt screwed when they came out with DS lite, DSi, DSXL.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 26, 2011, 04:26:55 AM
Cutting the price this early on would look really bad. Nintendo should have launched at a lower price right from the beginning so that the price didn't even need to be cut. There was no need for a huge markup. I think it was extremely foolish and arrogant of Nintendo to price it as they did. The DS was a huge success, and obviously that success went to their heads, but it is by no means certain that the 3DS will have the next handheld generation locked up tight the way the DS did in the last generation.
Sony went from being the market leader in console to third place in a very short time because of their arrogance in pricing the PS3 at $600. The 3DS thing isn't quite as bad to the same degree, but its the same sort of thing. Sony circa 2006 should serve as a lesson that being arrogant and gouging consumers can backfire and can and will result in you losing marketshare.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2011, 11:03:30 AM
Sony was foolish/arrogant to think they could launch a console for $600, but I wouldn't call it price gouging. PS3 was an excellent deal for what it was and Sony took a huge loss. Sony was simply trying to do way too much with their "PS3 is a computer" nonsense. Considering the hole they dug themselves in, PS3 could and probably should be doing worse.
Anyway, I'm not too concerned about a 3DS price drop. I expect one maybe around this time next year at the earliest so they can launch a redesign in November 2012 or so. I wasn't planning on buying 3DS until Nintendo redesigns it because a price drop isn't going to fix battery life.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2011, 12:19:34 PM
The double edge sword of redesigns rears it heads. But considering it took till the 3DS to get rid of some of my DS annoyances...
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 26, 2011, 05:34:22 PM
There may not be as many revisions of the 3DS as there were with the DS, because the 3DS itself benefits greatly from the R&D that went into the various DS revisions where Nintendo slowly worked out various kinks from the original Phat model. So right off the bat the 3DS has been built on a good stable foundation, so further revisions are less necessary.
That said, I'm sure there will be some. I'm just doubtful there will be quite as many because its kinda like certain species of animals which have been around for millions of years and haven't really changed much in all that time because they evolved to what works and there's little need to evolve further. They've found insects embedded in amber from like a hundred million years ago which are pretty much exactly the same as the ones around today, so the 3DS may be kinda like that.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Mop it up on June 26, 2011, 07:05:27 PM
The obvious answer is that the system shouldn't have launched at its current price, but we all know that so I guess it's pointless for me to bring that up. But it's left the 3DS in this sticky situation where it's a little overpriced for what you get, whereas it looks like the Vita won't be, from a hardware standpoint at least.
As much as Nintendo fans who have yet to get a 3DS would like a price drop, I don't think it is a good idea to do one anytime soon. To the average consumer, if the price drops when the Vita comes out, that will likely give the impression that it is inferior to the Vita. And while that's arguably true specs-wise, the games are what matter in the end. If the 3DS can bring the big hits (and looking at the upcoming lineup, it will), it won't need a price drop because people will buy the system that has the games they want to play.
The handheld market is different from consoles in many ways, one such being that handheld players care less about graphics than home system players. If this weren't the case, the PSP would have stomped the DS. So I don't anticipate the Vita's graphical prowess to be a factor like it is for the Wii vs the HD twins.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2011, 07:39:57 PM
Nintendo dropped the Gamecube's price 6 months after launch from $199 to $149 so there's precedence for a quick price drop. The key differences being Gamecube was getting pimpslapped around by the competition and Nintendo's profit margin was much smaller than what most suspect of 3DS. That said, 3DS is in a much better position than Gamecube ever was. Nintendo can drop the price and still make a profit. I just don't see them doing so nor do I see them having a reason to. Vita changes nothing.
Vita has a lot to prove and I wonder if Sony will be foolish enough to port Vita games over to PS3 like they did with several PSP games to PS2. In fact, they're still doing it. God of War Ghost of Sparta came out in November 2010 and less than a year later, they're porting it and Chains of Olympus to PS3 with bumped up graphics and extras. I bought Ghost of Sparta at full price, dammit! **** if I fall for THAT again. I usually end up owning every piece of hardware but it's almost as if Sony is trying to convince me that I already own a Vita and it's just wrapped in a larger box that plays Blu-Ray discs. If I just have to wait a year or 2 for them to port say Uncharted: Golden Abyss and they're going to add stuff to it to sweeten the deal, why would I ever buy Vita?
Point being, if this is the path Sony is taking, count me out. I'll skip Vita if Sony gives me a reason to. On top of that, Nintendo should be just fine regardless of price because unless WiiU gets a 3DS Player, I and many others still have really good reasons to buy 3DS. Nintendo doesn't port handheld games to their home consoles in the same generation and they shouldn't because that's sheer foolishness.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: stevey on June 26, 2011, 08:16:04 PM
The price isn't that bad and you only pay it once.
What's fucking outrageous is the damn $40 price tag on games! That needs to drop like a stone to ≤$30
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 26, 2011, 08:22:45 PM
What's fucking outrageous is the damn $40 price tag on games! That needs to drop like a stone to ≤$30
$39.99 isn't that bad at all, in my opinion. DS games retailed at $34.99 so 3DS games are only a mere $5 more. Is $5 more really such a big deal? If the price "dropped like a stone" to $30 like you suggest then they would actually be cheaper than DS games. Why should they be cheaper than DS games when graphically they are superior?
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 26, 2011, 10:22:54 PM
The problem is that all the games are $40. $40 is fine for some games, but shouldn't be the standard for everything.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ymeegod on June 27, 2011, 01:00:45 AM
Here's a fair point just because the raw materials add up to $100 doesn't mean Nintendo's overcharging. There's tons of expenses that have to be factor in like labor, manufacturing, research, marketing, just to name a few.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: oohhboy on June 27, 2011, 01:19:40 AM
No it's not a "fair" point. Even when given a generous $50 markup for shipping, R&D (A fixed cost that goes down with every unit sold) and other sundries, it's still $100 dollars more expensive than a traditional pricing point which is normally at or slightly above factory to retail costs.
It's considered traditional due to the fact you want people to buy your console, increasing your user base, therefore increasing the amount of games sold, in this case Nintendo takes a cut on every single one.
The most likely explanation for the missing $150 dollars is that the majority of it is profit.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 27, 2011, 01:26:52 AM
I've already made this point, but here is another fair point.
Nintendo is charging roughly $150 over manufacturing & assembly PER 3DS unit sold. taking a generous $50 (PER 3DS) of that to cover R&D, marketing and Shipping, and Nintendo still has a chunky $100 profit margin to play with.
Nintendo may have charged as much as they did because they thought the market was gonna trip over itself to buy it at that price, and maybe with the right games, lots of people still will, but that doesn't mean that Nintendo obviously over estimated demand @ $250 and probably should have introduced the hardware at a less inflated price point that still would have been very profitable out of the gate. Then they could have enjoyed a healthy profit margin and a good mindshare from actual sales instead of the stalled enthusiasm they are experiencing right now.
Once again, quality software might turn that around, but as of right now there is not alot happening on the 3DS side of things outside of OoT and that is a 15 year old game.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ymeegod on June 27, 2011, 01:56:45 AM
Sigh, I work in manufacturing for the past ten years so and the biggest cost is always labor.
For example what I used to make: if you broke down the components the total cost was $238 yet we ended up charging $800 for $103 profit. Labor was a big chunk of that and why the company I worked for outsourced everything in the end. Two nintendo doesn't make everything internal which means other people are out to make a profit as well--in nintendo's case: memory. All three manufacures have to deal with partners and that's going drive price upwards. The 3DS only has 128MB or memory so some asshat compared it to what 128MB or ram costs on the PC but that ram is customized--meaning Fujitsu isn't charging anywhere's near the price quoted.
Again, Nintendo's looking closer at $20-30 profit. Less when they launch another marketing blizt which is stated to be another 300 million.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ymeegod on June 27, 2011, 02:02:29 AM
"My cellphone has better graphics, a faster processor and was 50 dollars cheaper. >.< thats becoming a problem"
? Did your cellphone have a contract? Most likely that's why your phone only costed that much. Driods are roughly $500 new without one, same as Iphones.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 27, 2011, 02:31:30 AM
Sigh, I work in manufacturing for the past ten years so and the biggest cost is always labor.
I wasn't aware that you worked at a Chinese or Taiwanese Assembly factory getting at best about $20 a day. BTW iSupply is the "asshat" that does these cost breakdowns for a living. They take manufacturing and bulk ordering into account and have been regarded as fairly accurate in their estimates. Labor is taken care of at Foxconn where the average employee isn't making all that much and they probably would make more if they got paid 1 dime($0.10) per Nintendo product they touched during assembly than the salary they are currently getting.
It's the whole reason every company outsources. Cheap labor. It cost almost nothing on a per unit basis.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ymeegod on June 27, 2011, 03:01:09 AM
Chinese or Taiwanese? True but that doesn't explain the managers/engineers ect who are all Japanese. And Nintendo still have factories in Japan, not sure what the ratio is anymore or what they even make.
And Foxconn is a third party--which again their estimates don't factor in the profit they are taking from the top.
And Isuppli just takes what "one" company can do and how much it would cost them if they did everything themselves but that's a far cry from the real world.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: oohhboy on June 27, 2011, 03:25:14 AM
Japanese managers and engineers aren't American. The Japanese pay scale is far less disparate than their American equivalent. The article (http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/executivepay06.html) is from 2006, but considering the average CEO in Japan only earns 11 times the average workers wage compared to Americas 475 times, the cost of the managers in assembly is negligible.
Things are very different in Japan. Here is an Article (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/07/08/106536/japanese-ceo-american-sixth/) from 2010 featuring Iwata. He only earning 2.1 Million while Activision CEO Bobby Kotick earned 3.1 Million with 40 million in options despite running a company a fraction the size.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ymeegod on June 27, 2011, 03:57:50 AM
"CEO in Japan only earns 11 times the average workers wage compared to Americas 475 times, the cost of the managers in assembly is negligible. "
Actually the higher ups do get alot less on books but you fail to realize that in Japan you don't have to report any of your "bonuses". But yeah, Japanese is more conservative but my salary was comparable to my Japanese counterpart, he made $2.00 less/hour. Compared to China where I think $20 a day is on the higher end, the difference isn't all that great.
I wished we could get data on how much the 3DS is being markup by the retailers. I wonder what the wholesale value really is for these larger retailers.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 27, 2011, 09:44:55 AM
Selling it at $250 would have been fine if the 3DS were made of $200 worth of hardware. That would have left Nintendo with $50 markup which is still more than reasonable. Its not that the $250 price is so bad per se, its more that Nintendo is selling it at a $150 markup. For the price we should be getting more powerful hardware.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ymeegod on June 29, 2011, 12:49:12 AM
Sigh, glad you read any posts. ;0
The funny thing is I think I'm the only one that read what Isuppi actual does.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2011, 01:18:19 PM
You know if Iwata is making 2.1 million dollars a year... Couldn't he opt for a better haircut and clothes that fit...
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: nickmitch on June 30, 2011, 04:08:06 PM
I don't think going on the price of the materials is all that fair in determining markup. R&D is expensive as ****, and next to Goodwill is one of the biggest accounts on any tech company's financial statements. Plus, moving products through the supply chain is highly expensive. So, while the parts may be only $100, getting the system to you probably costs Nintendo $230 a pop.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 30, 2011, 04:26:20 PM
Either the 3DS' price gets lowered or Nintendo's handheld marketshare will get lowered. Either way, something is going to get lower one way or another.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on June 30, 2011, 04:42:50 PM
You know I think a lot of this would be mitigated if the Game costs where universally dropped by $10. The higher price of the system and the games make it a doubly whammy that leaves you sore.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Mop it up on June 30, 2011, 05:53:44 PM
Here's a fair point just because the raw materials add up to $100 doesn't mean Nintendo's overcharging. There's tons of expenses that have to be factor in like labor, manufacturing, research, marketing, just to name a few.
It would be a fair point if Nintendo didn't admit that they raised the price of the 3DS due to the positive feedback at E3 2010. That's the main reason people say it is overpriced, because Nintendo have told us it is.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on June 30, 2011, 11:53:44 PM
Nintendo infamously admitted to marking the price up specifically because 3DS had such a positive reaction at last year's E3. Also, apparently Sony isn't selling Vita at a loss. So, if Vita sells at the same price as 3DS and since it utilizes more powerful hardware, it's a pretty safe bet that 3DS isn't worth anywhere near $250 when all is said and done. At the same time, Sony may be manufacturing Vita's chipsets themselves. I recall reading a while back that Sony bought a plant from Toshiba a while ago which was manufacturing PS3 chips so Sony could do the same for Vita. This would cut down cost but I'm not sure that closes the gap with 3DS significantly. That said, a $100 mark up is entirely within the realm of possibility. I'd bet on anywhere between$70 to $100 in pure profit for Nintendo, closer to the latter.
EDIT: Mop it up beat me to the 1st point. Damn you. :)
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on July 01, 2011, 09:24:13 AM
Sony didn't really buy the plant as so much bought out the other partner by my understanding.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: SixthAngel on July 01, 2011, 10:45:48 AM
I wonder how much Nintendo gives to retailers. One huge advantage of actually having a profit margin is that you can give retailers a large enough cut so they want to promote your machine over the competition. It wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo threw the retailers an extra couple of bucks to the get the Wii/3DS stuff displayed more prominently after getting relegated to the ghetto of the stores with the Gamecube.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on July 01, 2011, 10:48:08 AM
I wonder how much Nintendo gives to retailers. One huge advantage of actually having a profit margin is that you can give retailers a large enough cut so they want to promote your machine over the competition. It wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo threw the retailers an extra couple of bucks to the get the Wii/3DS stuff displayed more prominently after getting relegated to the ghetto of the stores with the Gamecube.
We know that Sony literally bought shelf space at GameStop to promote some different items.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ymeegod on July 02, 2011, 11:47:46 PM
Sony is still selling at an loss with Vita: In an interview with Reuters Japan, Sony’s Kaz Hirai stated that Sony aims to make a profit on the PlayStation Vita in three years. Sony often sells their hardware at a lost, so this isn’t anything new for the company as they sold the PlayStation at a lost despite the $600 price tag. Out of the three home-console manufacturers, Nintendo is usually the only company to make a profit on hardware right away due to their conservative nature of building their hardware.
-----------------------------------
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 03, 2011, 11:38:02 AM
There was that story (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30989.msg678874#msg678874), but then there was this one 11 days later http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30989.msg681996#msg681996 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30989.msg681996#msg681996)
Quote from: Yoshida
For Vita, the price on performance was something we definitely wanted to hit, although we all agreed because we are PlayStation, people expect better graphics and prettier pictures, so we have all those things we wanted to achieve in terms of capabilities, but we capped our ambitions with a cost of goods target that we can profitably sell the hardware for $250.
To answer your question, we set out a goal: Yes, we're going to hit the $250 price, and no, we don't want to sell the hardware with a deficit. That's a goal we set out to do and I'm very happy we are achieving that.
---------------------------------
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 03, 2011, 12:07:14 PM
From the consumer's perspective, a $250 piece of hardware which the manufacturer sells at a loss seems much better than a $250 piece of hardware which the manufacturer sells for $100+ markup. You don't need to be a rocket surgeon to know which one gives you more bang for your buck.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: apdude on July 03, 2011, 12:27:09 PM
Most companies I've worked for look for at least a 40% profit margin over the actuall build costs in order to cover all the other expenses that go into keeping a company afloat. If the profit is 100, then on 250 it's exactly 40%. No suprise there.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Razorkid on July 03, 2011, 09:04:52 PM
I could care less how much the thing cost to make or how much a company profits from it. As long as I get the value for what I paid for, I'm happy. Why do people care so much about these things? If something is too expensive for one person but affordable for another, that's fine. If one person doesn't see the value in paying a certain price for a product but someone else does, that's okay too. People pay $600 for an iPad. I'm certain it doesn't cost that much to make, but does it matter? I wouldn't buy one for that price, many people have. It doesn't mean they are wrong or right to do it, it just means their perceived value of the machine is worth paying that price. Hell, my computer that I'm building for myself costs ~$2700. That's absolutely bananas to some people, but to me it's worth every penny. I'm belaboring the point, but ultimately it's okay to think something is too expensive and there's no reason to try to prove why because in the end it's all subjective.
What do you all think of the way the 3DS' library is shaping up for it's first year on the market (including what's known to be coming out by holiday season)? To me, it takes a dump all over the DS' first year library as far as the number of solid titles available across multiple genres. The only thing I feel the DS had more during it's first year is originality in it's software. I have yet to see anything on 3DS that has made me say "Wow" to it's uniqueness software-wise. I hope the PSVita offers a lot more on the originality front during it's first year as well.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: leahsdad on July 13, 2011, 02:01:01 AM
Quote
You know I think a lot of this would be mitigated if the Game costs where universally dropped by $10.
I think much more than the cost of hardware, the cost of games, from the perspective of the non-gaming public, is a big dealbreaker in the age of IOS and 99cent games.
Case in point: today I took my kids to the pediatrician, and in the waiting room on a chair I found a DS cart that some kid left. Now, don't get excited-- it was Cars the game based on the Pixar movie. I turned it in to the receptionist. The nurse saw me do this and she said "wow, I hope that kid gets that back. Those things are expensive. Really expensive."
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on July 13, 2011, 09:25:14 AM
You know I think a lot of this would be mitigated if the Game costs where universally dropped by $10.
I think much more than the cost of hardware, the cost of games, from the perspective of the non-gaming public, is a big dealbreaker in the age of IOS and 99cent games.
Case in point: today I took my kids to the pediatrician, and in the waiting room on a chair I found a DS cart that some kid left. Now, don't get excited-- it was Cars the game based on the Pixar movie. I turned it in to the receptionist. The nurse saw me do this and she said "wow, I hope that kid gets that back. Those things are expensive. Really expensive."
I always love that debate with people. They find out I game as a hobby and then go, isn't that expensive or too expensive something like that. I then ask their hobby and their like Biking. Which they just bought new bikes, annual gear replacements, travel to far offish places to ride, etc. I'm just thinking of the cost of all that and I'm like yeah... I buy a game average once a month at $60 max... new system every 2 years or so...
As a hobby its pretty in line with what everyone else is doing but, their is a public perception of very expensive.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: GaMMa on July 23, 2011, 08:15:15 PM
I do think the price is kind of on the high side until you stop and realize the price for a smartphone (without a contract) is anywhere from $500 to $750. At this point the 3DS can do everything my smartphone can do except placing calls. Do I think it's worth it? Yes.
Games are more expensive this generation, but there is the eShop. You can get Kirby for the GameBoy for $4. I'd personally rather play that than half the cell phone games out there.
I personally blame the price increase on the current financial crisis. If the yen/dollar/euro ratio was more stable I'm sure we'd see cheaper prices. I think a lot of Japanese companies got hit hard when the yen skyrocketed compared to the euro and the dollar.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 23, 2011, 08:19:33 PM
I think a lot of Japanese companies got hit hard when the yen skyrocketed compared to the euro and the dollar.
Yep, I think Iwata himself said during a conference call that the rising value of the yen really hurt Nintendo since much of their revenue came from outside of Japan (and Iwata almost laughed when he answered an investor's question by saying they couldn't expect people outside of Japan to pay for their games in yen).
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: gbuell on July 28, 2011, 09:23:29 AM
I love reading threads like this where lots of people turn out to be wrong. (Not that I would have done any better if I'd made a prediction before today.)
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2011, 09:29:49 AM
I love reading threads like this where lots of people turn out to be wrong. (Not that I would have done any better if I'd made a prediction before today.)
Part of that is there was not a precedence for Nintendo to make this kind of move.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: gbuell on July 28, 2011, 11:16:46 AM
Definitely understood, I don't blame anyone for not predicting this.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on July 28, 2011, 11:41:01 AM
Gamecube set the precedent, minus compensating early adopters. Well, close enough, about a month earlier and $30 extra off. I didn't think 3DS was in as bad a position as Gamecube but I'll take a price drop and free games.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: nickmitch on July 28, 2011, 12:08:34 PM
I think being on top with Wii and DS put Iwata under a lot of pressure from investors to boost the sales numbers, even if it doesn't directly turn in to an increased net income.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 28, 2011, 12:31:43 PM
I was right and wrong at the same time. I really didn't expect a price drop until after the holiday season. But Nintendo was far overcharging for the 3DS based on both demand and actual cost. The fact that at the moment it has a very weak line-up of SSFIV & OoT3D only make it more obvious that a price drop was needed.
This price drop is more than I expected and much sooner than expected, but atleast they did do the value added bundle too like I figured they would.... just waaaay more value added than expected.
You gotta love Nintendo sometimes. They always find a way to surprise you. But I'm really happy they got the message and came to their senses before it was too late.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: noname2200 on July 28, 2011, 12:41:36 PM
It's a good move, in light of anemic sales and a software drought that's going to last for several more months, but isn't this the first time that Nintendo sold hardware at a loss?
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: oohhboy on July 28, 2011, 12:47:15 PM
Read the rest of the thread, Nintendo isn't selling at a loss, even at this price. It a price more in line to what they normally do which is usually at cost or slightly above it. It is expected they are still making some profit, but this is the price it should have come out at or a hair lower.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: alegoicoe on July 28, 2011, 12:53:00 PM
I think nintendo just made a smart move to lower the 3ds price to 169.99 to fight off Vita's price which am sure took everyone by surprise, am sure with this move the adoption rate of the 3ds will increment a lot and with the near future releases of mario 3ds and mario kart along with OoT which is already out, is a no brainer for every nintendo and non nintendo fan to get a 3DS.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 28, 2011, 12:59:17 PM
Nintendo is likely making ~$20 profit at this price point. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less, but the estimated cost of parts and manufacturing is a little over $100. This price drop is definitely more in line with where the system should have launched ($199 would have been acceptable at launch) and is actually a very nice apology to consumers on both sides of the fence.
I plan on straddling the fence and benefiting from both sides. (20 free games and the price drop).
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2011, 01:01:59 PM
$20 Profit is low for hardware for them.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: noname2200 on July 28, 2011, 01:05:06 PM
Read the rest of the thread, Nintendo isn't selling at a loss, even at this price. It a price more in line to what they normally do which is usually at cost or slightly above it. It is expected they are still making some profit, but this is the price it should have come out at or a hair lower.
Sorry, I'm not seeing what you're referring to. My information about the loss comes from Bloomberg Japan (http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/07/29/3ds_losses/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed).
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on July 28, 2011, 01:17:29 PM
Read the rest of the thread, Nintendo isn't selling at a loss, even at this price. It a price more in line to what they normally do which is usually at cost or slightly above it. It is expected they are still making some profit, but this is the price it should have come out at or a hair lower.
Sorry, I'm not seeing what you're referring to. My information about the loss comes from Bloomberg Japan (http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/07/29/3ds_losses/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed).
That is weird for Nintendo to be overly aggressive cutting something. A cut to $200 would have been big.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 28, 2011, 01:32:15 PM
Read the rest of the thread, Nintendo isn't selling at a loss, even at this price. It a price more in line to what they normally do which is usually at cost or slightly above it. It is expected they are still making some profit, but this is the price it should have come out at or a hair lower.
Sorry, I'm not seeing what you're referring to. My information about the loss comes from Bloomberg Japan (http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/07/29/3ds_losses/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed).
page 2 (or you can just read all of my post in this thread, but I'll quote the most relevant one)
I'm not trying to start another debate, but my ideas were just some minor last-minute things they could have done if they decided they were gonna raise the price based on fanbase enthusiasm and tell us that's what they were gonna do. A little surprise like "Guess what!? We decided to bump the internal flash in addition to the SD card we pack in... but that's not all!! We also added a 3D camera to the inside lid to that you can do 3D video chat with people on your friends list!! Oh you thought we were done!? Nope, we also added that 2nd analog that all you gamers keep crying about!! and all for the same price that we announced a few short months ago!!" I bet that some of that deflated enthusiasm that they are seeing now could have been minimized even if the majority of it was inevitable because of the price and the lack of games to make most consumers over look it.
And I thought about starting a new thread for this, but I'll just drop it here instead iSupply 3DS cost vs DSi cost (at release) (http://i.imgur.com/pOvUy.png) click pic for larger image
Estimated cost to manufacture 3DS = $103 Cost to buy 3DS = $250 --------------------------------------- Difference - $147
factor in R&D, shipping & packaging on a per unit basis when multiplyed by the expected sales of 100's of 1000's of units per region per month, and I came up with a generous cost of ~$50.
So that leaves us with a healthy profit margin of ~$100 on 3DS. factor in the price drop of $80 and that leaves Nintendo with a rough estimate of ~$20 profit margin on 3DS for now, but that number will obviously grow as they manufacturing cost continue to drop.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: oohhboy on July 28, 2011, 01:33:11 PM
GameCube was believed to have only made $5 on every unit sold, so it Nintendo has cut is very fine before.
I suspect there has been a mistranslation regarding whether they will be selling the 3DS at an actual loss or whether he is talking about a loss in profit. I would wait for one of our Japanese corespondents to clarify this statement before I concede.
Iwata said in the original article the Bloomberg report is based on
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2011, 02:08:24 PM
Definately surprised to see such a huge price drop, I worry about the impact of such a drastic cut. IN regards to profit/loss per system used, I'll take Iwata's word in a conference over a 3rd party site, if Iwata was lieing outright that would hurt Nintendo big time, especially to the shareholders unless of course it is a mistranslation.
Anyway, glad Nintendo is rectifying it somewhat with early adopters, I don't recall something like that happened before where a company does something relatively major for early adopters when a price drop hits.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 28, 2011, 02:25:19 PM
All of those who said Nintendo wasn't going to drop the price anytime soon can all eat crow.
I knew this was going to happen, but I have to say I am really shocked by the severity of the cut. That took even me by surprise.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 28, 2011, 02:34:15 PM
Google Translation: "drastic measures must be considered substantial," said. Price is only after the price of the hard sell and lose money on a "come see the bright and the performance of the next year or you do not hit your hands now,"
Partial Translation: Following the price cut, sales of the hardware will go into the red.
My re-interpretation: Drastic times call for drastic measures and the price drop is a result of poor 3DS sales which will of course lead to loss revenue/profits.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2011, 02:35:06 PM
All of those who said Nintendo wasn't going to drop the price anytime soon can all eat crow.
I knew this was going to happen, but I have to say I am really shocked by the severity of the cut. That took even me by surprise.
Kind of like how you've eaten crow multiple times saying Nintendo is doomed? Seriously let's have some maturity here, there are legitimate business reasons to doubt a price drop, especially since the 3DS game lineup has yet to get strong, heck the best game on the system is a pretty straightforward remake of an N64 game. I still worry about the image issues with this and how it hurts the value of the 3DS in the eyes of people with such a massive price drop. No one said Nintendo won't drop the price, people were arguing whether it was a good idea or not, whether it is a sound business choice or not.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: gbuell on July 28, 2011, 04:20:39 PM
factor in R&D, shipping & packaging on a per unit basis when multiplyed by the expected sales of 100's of 1000's of units per region per month, and I came up with a generous cost of ~$50.
Can you enlighten us with the calculations you used to come up with that?
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: alegoicoe on July 28, 2011, 04:47:29 PM
People, if you remember the original DS fat didnt do that well in the first year and the launch line up was lackluster as well, DS sell started picking up fast after the DS Lite went into market and nintendo started releasing games, i think although its not the same situation, they do have similarities and i think this price cut is the first step in the right direction for nintendo to start improving 3DS sells before Xmas comes around.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Mop it up on July 28, 2011, 06:26:50 PM
I still think Nintendo should have held off until after the holidays before dropping the price. But that's because I think that the lack of compelling software was the biggest reason for slow 3DS sales rather than the price. Once games like Super Mario 3D hit then it would have taken off. But now we'll never know if that's the case since the price will be a lot lower at that point.
Nintendo's definitely in a tough spot and neither option is really desirable. Though if I'm right about the 3DS needing software, then the possible negative image from cutting the price so heftily shouldn't be much of a factor. People are going to buy a 3DS if it has the games they want to play.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 28, 2011, 10:43:33 PM
I still think Nintendo should have held off until after the holidays before dropping the price. But that's because I think that the lack of compelling software was the biggest reason for slow 3DS sales rather than the price. Once games like Super Mario 3D hit then it would have taken off. But now we'll never know if that's the case since the price will be a lot lower at that point.
Nintendo's definitely in a tough spot and neither option is really desirable. Though if I'm right about the 3DS needing software, then the possible negative image from cutting the price so heftily shouldn't be much of a factor. People are going to buy a 3DS if it has the games they want to play.
Hope it doesn't adversely affect the sales of 3DS. Such a drastic price drop reminds me of Nintendo's first 3D system, Virtual Boy, they cut the price drastically on that as well within a few months. Kind of eery how the only two systems they had dramatic price drops for are 3D systems, but I still think 3DS will be fine once it gets a decent lineup of quality NEW games aka not remakes.
It still remains to be seen if this was a good business move or not. I still want an official statement in regards to profit or loss on each system they sell.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 28, 2011, 11:54:50 PM
I think Nintendo did this because the 3DS hasn't been exactly flying off shelves or experiencing shortages or setting any sales records like they probably had hoped it would. With this new price point I'm sure it will do much better sales wise.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: alegoicoe on July 29, 2011, 12:06:47 AM
I still think Nintendo should have held off until after the holidays before dropping the price. But that's because I think that the lack of compelling software was the biggest reason for slow 3DS sales rather than the price. Once games like Super Mario 3D hit then it would have taken off. But now we'll never know if that's the case since the price will be a lot lower at that point.
Nintendo's definitely in a tough spot and neither option is really desirable. Though if I'm right about the 3DS needing software, then the possible negative image from cutting the price so heftily shouldn't be much of a factor. People are going to buy a 3DS if it has the games they want to play.
Hope it doesn't adversely affect the sales of 3DS. Such a drastic price drop reminds me of Nintendo's first 3D system, Virtual Boy, they cut the price drastically on that as well within a few months. Kind of eery how the only two systems they had dramatic price drops for are 3D systems, but I still think 3DS will be fine once it gets a decent lineup of quality NEW games aka not remakes.
It still remains to be seen if this was a good business move or not. I still want an official statement in regards to profit or loss on each system they sell.
Remember that Virtual Boy messed with people's head and nintendo ended up taking off the market, which the 3ds is something much more different, i think they lowered the price this early for a sale boost before xmas hits and they have their triple A titles in the market.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on July 29, 2011, 12:27:42 AM
Nothing seemed anywhere near as desperate as dropping Gamecube's price 6 months after launch. It was already the cheapest console and Nintendo made it half the price of the competition despite having more powerful hardware than the market leader. People didn't mind spending more than what Gamecube original cost so the price wasn't the problem. The problem was that outside of the Nintendo faithful, no one gave a **** and it didn't matter what it cost. With 3DS, people seem to want it but the price was too damn high. That's the real difference. With 3DS, they overvalued the hardware. This price drop is likely what Nintendo originally planned to launch at before arrogantly admitting to jacking the price up. We should start seeing 3DS sell the way we all expected it to sell.
People are spelling doom for 3DS but I don't think that's even remotely true. I'm far more worried about Vita. As I've stated before, Nintendo has the luxury of dropping the price. Sony can make no such claim. What sucks especially much for Sony is that not even Nintendo could succeed selling a handheld for $250. The market leader 20+ years running saw the limits of an acceptable price of entry. A good portion of PSP's userbase own the hardware specifically to hack it. If Vita proves less prone to hacking, there goes most of that audience. It's selling at a price that people balked at from the market leader. We're all wowed by the hardware's power, but that doesn't automatically translate into sales. Same thing happened when PSP launched.
Most importantly, will Vita games remain Vita games? I love buying new hardware but Sony burned me big time with these PSP Remaster games. I'm hesitant to even consider buying a Vita since in the back of my mind, I wonder if I'll eventually see ports on home consoles. Sony started porting PSP games to PS2 then continued porting PSP games to PS3. What's to stop them from doing that again?
Back to the original point, I think 3DS is in a great position. I don't see this as desperate because it's finally worth what many felt it's actually worth. Additionally, Nintendo trying to make 3DS a more attractive purchase says more about their faith in the Wii or lack thereof. 3DS is the easier sell since it's new. With only one major release coming up and a new home console announced, Nintendo rightfully sees no future for the Wii and the 3DS has to carry the load until Wii U hits. So no, not desperate, just the natural order of things. Nintendo probably could have waited until next year to drop the price because some big 1st party games are set to launch and ignite sales but the price drop will only help things along and put even more pressure on Sony to figure out some gameplan for Vita.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Mop it up on July 29, 2011, 01:37:31 AM
Nothing seemed anywhere near as desperate as dropping Gamecube's price 6 months after launch. It was already the cheapest console and Nintendo made it half the price of the competition despite having more powerful hardware than the market leader.
Just a little fact correction, but the price cut to half its launch price wasn't until about two years into its market life. It did drop to $150 before that happened, but I can't find when that first cut happened.
I bought a GameCube at launch and I was fine with the price cut because of Super Smash Brothers Melee, that's the only thing which made me not regret buying a GameCube at launch. Heck, it's the thing that made me not regret buying a GameCube, period. There's nothing like that for me with the 3DS.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 29, 2011, 01:52:38 AM
Nintendo dropped the price of the GameCube to $149.99 on May 21, 2002 (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2866374/e3-2002-nintendo-announces-gamecube-price-drop). This was just after the PlayStation 2 and Xbox were dropped to $199.99, which may have cause Nintendo to drop their price sooner than planned
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Mop it up on July 29, 2011, 01:58:42 AM
Ah there it is! I knew it was soon, but not to $100, but I thought it was more like 9 months. 6 months is pretty quick...
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: ymeegod on July 29, 2011, 02:25:17 AM
"Bloomberg Japan reports today that the new 3DS price point means Nintendo will incur a loss on every system sold"
Nintendo's profit margin on consoles isn't all that much--with the WII it was something in the teens ($15 or something) and I doubt Nintendo was making much more than that on the 3DS.
Not sure if was the Vita that pushed forth the price drop. In the states alot of gamers on the go are using their smart phones now, like those 200 million AB users. That and the lineup really is weak.
Surprised to see it soo soon, figured Nintendo would have waited until the major titles shipped during the holidays.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 29, 2011, 02:26:48 AM
The 3DS has only sold 833K systems in the US, I think that was a big factor in it.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on July 29, 2011, 08:17:44 AM
Okay, I was mistaken with the half as much part. Sony cut the price first then Microsoft and then Nintendo. PS2 was on the market for over a year and was doing well. Microsoft and Nintendo's price drops were desperate attempts at keeping up with Sony, Nintendo especially since Gamecube was already $199. It was as if they felt like they couldn't compete on a level playing field.
The question posed in this topic was should Nintendo drop the price of 3DS because of Vita. No. They shouldn't and I don't believe they did BECAUSE of Vita. They're dropping the price because 3DS was selling worse than expected and the price of entry was too high. That has nothing to do with Vita and everything to do with Nintendo's hubris. Vita is going to run into the same problem, not because Sony priced the hardware too high, but because they can't price it any lower. The point of bringing up the Gamecube price drop was that Nintendo was dropping the price in response to getting their ass kicked and to try anything to draw interest in the console. 3DS has neither of those issues. It's main competition isn't even out yet and I believe more people would have bought it had the price been lower.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on July 29, 2011, 09:55:51 AM
And the Game costs.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on July 29, 2011, 11:08:22 AM
I'm not convinced game prices are the deal breaker for a lot of people. 3DS games are $5 more than most big release DS games. Personally, I paid the Square Enix tax on Chrono Trigger. The price dropped rather quickly but, like a sucker, I paid $40. Phantasy Star Zero may have been $40 and I bought 2 of those.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Ceric on July 29, 2011, 11:43:12 AM
I'm not convinced game prices are the deal breaker for a lot of people. 3DS games are $5 more than most big release DS games. Personally, I paid the Square Enix tax on Chrono Trigger. The price dropped rather quickly but, like a sucker, I paid $40. Phantasy Star Zero may have been $40 and I bought 2 of those.
I have 2 3DS games and an avg I paid $30 per of them. Pilotwings is the next big one I really like to buy but I can't bring myself to pay $40 dollars for it. I guess my real problem is that almost all the games are $40 and there is now sense of the content tiers.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: noname2200 on July 29, 2011, 12:25:20 PM
I'm not convinced game prices are the deal breaker for a lot of people. 3DS games are $5 more than most big release DS games. Personally, I paid the Square Enix tax on Chrono Trigger. The price dropped rather quickly but, like a sucker, I paid $40. Phantasy Star Zero may have been $40 and I bought 2 of those.
It's worth noting, though, that both of those games sold like crap at retail.
Title: Re: Should Nintendo lower 3DS prices because of the Vita?
Post by: Adrock on July 29, 2011, 01:20:31 PM
That's true. I certainly never pay full price for something I don't think is worth full price. I guess my point is that the price point isn't inherently the issue, it's the value of the games. I don't even think I would buy Ocarina of Time for $40 since I have 3 copies of the original. I would, however, pay full price for both Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D Land since their new games. Without knowing exactly how much content is in those titles and going off what I expect based on other games in each respective series, they're both pretty much console games so I kind of feel like I'm saving $10.
