Community Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: UncleBob on January 23, 2011, 11:54:44 PM
Title: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: UncleBob on January 23, 2011, 11:54:44 PM
Are there many fans of the FOX Prime Time Cartoons on here? Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad, Futurama, The Cleveland Show...
I was thinking of doing something similar to the Retroactive feature where we vote on a series, watch whatever the next season is in that series, leave the thread up for (one week? two weeks?) to watch/discuss it, then vote on the next season set to watch. Is there enough interest in this?
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2011, 12:05:10 AM
I'm liking this new show Bob's Burgers.
Bonus Thread Derail: Simpons was much better in first 9 seasons.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2011, 12:09:48 AM
You know, I haven't watched Bob's Burgers. My DVR isn't set to record it and I never seem to think about setting it.
As for the Simpsons - we'll be able to discuss how awesome the first X seasons are...
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2011, 12:19:20 AM
Check it out on Hulu! http://www.hulu.com/bobs-burgers
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2011, 12:24:08 AM
I love MOST of the primetime animated shows on Fox have been (I wasn't a big fan of Sit Down, Shut Up. Bob's Burgers has improved in its 3 episodes so far, the pilot was so-so. I was disappointed when they canceled King of the Hill, it had been going down in quality but still was very good. It had a nice long run at 13 seasons though.
I will comment in more detail tomorrow. Suffice it to say though, Family Guy is my least favorite of the Seth MacFarlane shows.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2011, 12:30:58 AM
I've wanted to pick up the KotH DVDs, but the fact that FOX isn't planning on releasing the entire show on DVD, I'm reluctant to bother.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2011, 12:37:35 AM
Yeah, I think they said it was because the first six seasons weren't selling well on DVD. Luckily they at least have all 13 seasons for streaming on Netflix.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: ShyGuy on January 24, 2011, 12:59:02 AM
I hate to summon the Dark Lord of Piracy here, but that is a situation where I feel sympathy. You want to buy the entire series, you're ready to give them your money, but Fox just won't take it.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: nickmitch on January 24, 2011, 02:40:17 AM
They will through Netflix.
Anyway, I like Fox Sunday Night cartoons. Animation Domination is something I always look forward to (after football, of course).
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2011, 12:09:05 PM
A little more detail:
I still love The Simpsons. The Mike Scully years were very hit and miss (he gave us episodes like "The Principal and the Pauper", "When You Dish Upon a Star", and "Saddlesore Galactica"). While the show may not be hitting it out of the park all the time anymore, I still love watching the show and think most of the episodes are really good.
Family Guy is very hit and miss. I don't like when they preach too much (for example, I didn't like the episode where Brian got weed legalized), and Peter is just plain annoying (and not in a lovable way) and makes me hate any episode where he is the major focus. Ever since Fox brought back the show, they have made Meg more annoying (I really liked her in the original run of the show). Also, I HATE the Peter vs. Giant Chicken gag. I dread it when I see they are doing it because it's not funny and it's just tedious. FG is the worst of MacFarlane's 3 shows in my opinion. I still like the show, but not as much as I used too.
American Dad! went through a slump for awhile, but I love the show. I wonder if it was the smart move to have Haley and Jeff get married, but I will give it a shot (I thought the episode where he moved in was terrible though. Really, trying to justify smoking pot by saying that without it you are a chronic masturbator?).
The Cleveland Show was something I thought was stupid when it was announced, especially when it was revealed that Cleveland Jr. would go from being a hyperactive skinny 6 year old to a fat 14 year old. However, I have loved every single episode so far. Some of Cleveland's friends are really funny (especially Lester), I love one of the early episodes where Cleveland realized that some of his comments could be taken badly out of context (like when he was trying to help Junior make friends, so he asked a kid if he wanted to play with Cleveland Jr., and that Cleveland Jr. is short and fat but enjoys being played with).
Futurama is a show that should have been brought back instead of FG. It's funnier, the characters are more interesting, and it looks better. I was happy when they announced the four straight to DVD movies. I was also happy to hear it would be coming back to TV, although that was lowered a little when it was revealed that it would have a much lower budget due to being on Comedy Central rather than Fox.
King of the Hill started slow, it's hard to go back and watch season 1, but got better over time. It was funny to see what looked like a satire about how conservatives think, and how Hank was so in love with propane (so much so that Peggy and Bobby had to hide the fact that they though burgers cooked with charcoal tasted better than those cooked with propane). The visual style took a weird change in later seasons, it looked like they were being done by computers then. It wasn't worse, but it was different.
Sit Down, Shut up is weird. I hated it at first (and I wasn't the only one, it got canceled after a few months), but started liking it a little bit more when Fox started airing it Saturdays at midnight. I did like that it had several alumni from Arrested Development on it (Mitchell Hurwitz created both, and cast members Jason Bateman and Will Arnett).
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
I know I'm in a very small minority, but I love "The Principal and the Pauper." It's pretty crazy, and really messes with the continuity of the show, but it's really well written and very funny. It's written by Ken Keeler, who would go on to be (in my opinion) the best writer Futurama ever had, and I'd encourage anyone with the season 9 DVDs to listen to the commentary for that episode and hear him make his case for it.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2011, 12:55:10 PM
It was funny hearing him get high pitched trying to plead with people to like it. He knew that most fans did not like the episode. He doesn't seem to get why people get into the characters and don't like the writers saying "like this character we've built for the last 9 years? Well, screw you.". He is a good writer, but I thought this was a bad episode from him. I still enjoyed the audio commentary for it. I can say the same about John Swartzwedler, I hated his later episodes.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2011, 01:01:28 PM
The other writers stop just short of out and out saying those later Swarzwelder episodes were ruined by the room after he stopped coming in and thus wasn't there to defend his writing in some of the DVD commentaries. He can definitely still write; as I've said before on these forums, his novels, especially How I Conquered Your Planet and The Exploding Detective, are fantastically hilarious.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2011, 01:06:34 PM
I guess that is why he stopped writing episodes. He last episode was almost 8 years ago (I checked to find out when and what episode, it was "The Regina Monologues"), he did help contribute to The Simpsons Movie though. IIRC, I think one of the reasons he stopped coming in was because they banned smoking in the writers room and he is addicted to smoking.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2011, 02:05:39 PM
The way they tell it, that was pretty much the entire reason he stopped coming in. 8 years sounds right, since he's been averaging about a novel per year, and he's written seven so far. They usually come out in the spring, so we're almost due for another one.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: Morari on January 24, 2011, 02:46:09 PM
I haven't watched any "prime time" television in years.
I used to love The Simpsons, but am not at all caught up with it anymore. The quality of individual episodes seemed to start to vary, but never to the extent where they were absolutely not worth watching.
I hate Family Guy, American Dad, and the Cleveland Show. They're boring, repetitive, and try too hard to be offensive for the sake of shock value. I'm pretty sure that you have to be stoned or have ADD to actually enjoy those shows.
I enjoyed Futurama well enough. It always seemed pretty uneven though. When it was funny, it was really funny, but those moments were too few.
I liked King of the Hill the best however. It was subtle in most of it's humor, being more of a satire than anything. It also had actual plots per episode, which seems to be lacking in a lot of animation that rely more on "random lols" that don't really fit the characters nor the situations.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2011, 02:54:31 PM
For me the last good season of The Simpsons was Season 7 which is a LONG time ago now. There are probably Simpsons fans that were not even born then. The "bad" seasons outnumber the good ones so I don't even know if it is fair to say I like The Simpsons since I don't even like 50% of the show's run. The long and the short of it is that I feel the show's humour changed over time from something I found hilarious to something I found irritating. No show lasts this long without changing in some way that will likely turn off some of the fans. Good shows come in, kick some ass, and get out while they're ahead. No show lasts 20 seasons while maintaining any level of consistent quality. Fox let King of the Hill go on too long as well. Such is the nature of the cash cow I suppose. Fox seems to either cancel a show too soon or let it go on and on past its prime.
I can say however that Simpsons seasons 3-6 is the best comedy show I have ever seen. It's funnier than Seinfeld, funnier than Arrested Development. It was at its peak the absolute BEST.
When Family Guy first came on I loved it but I found that the show doesn't hold up in repeat viewings. I'll watch an episode, laugh my ass off, and then when the same episode comes on in reruns I'll just be bored. There are no subtle gags I didn't notice the first time or bits that always bring a smile. It is just like one-and-done gags that only work once. I didn't stick with it long after it came back because, realistically, I was getting sick of it before it got cancelled. It very much has a formula that was really funny when it was fresh but became quickly predictable. Comedy can't be predictable. It has to sneak up and punch you in the gut. I'm not into the other Seth McFarlane shows for the same reason. It's the same type of comedy.
I love Futurama. It's funny because not only is it a good comedy show but it actually works okay as a sci-fi show as well! It'll make you laugh while having a pretty cool storyline at the same time. I don't mind a show ending after a short run and the first four seasons work so well that I'm almost sad it came back. It now could blow things. It worked as is.
I've now watched two episodes of Bob's Burgers and I realistically don't like ANY of the characters except Bob himself. His family just pisses me off. The show has some funny moments but if you don't have a good cast of characters you're screwed.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2011, 03:03:12 PM
Calling season 7 the last good season of The Simpsons is ridiculous. I mean, I disagree with a lot of people about the evolution of the quality of the show over the years, but I've never seen anyone say it went downhill that early. Hell, I'd argue that the show didn't even hit its peak until season 8.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2011, 05:53:13 PM
So, are we a go for "Toon Talk"?
Should we do one week or two weeks to watch/discuss a season?
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2011, 05:54:17 PM
I am up for it, length of time doesn't matter to me.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: Ian Sane on January 24, 2011, 06:31:48 PM
Quote
Calling season 7 the last good season of The Simpsons is ridiculous. I mean, I disagree with a lot of people about the evolution of the quality of the show over the years, but I've never seen anyone say it went downhill that early. Hell, I'd argue that the show didn't even hit its peak until season 8.
What age group are you talking to? Your profile says you're 22. I'm 29. The Simpsons has been around for so long and has changed so much that people of different age groups and different senses of humour would get something totally different out of the show from different times. If you dig the sense of humour shown in season 8 then season 8 would TOTALLY be your peak view of the show. Most people I talk to that are around my age think season 4 or 5 was the peak of the show. Season 8's humour is way different than season 4's. I'm not saying you're wrong for finding that funny, it's just a different style of humour.
Remember also that most people my age were watching the FIRST season when it was brand new. You would have been what? 1 year old at the time. That's a different frame of reference. Our first exposure to Homer was completely different than that of someone who started watching him in later seasons. I saw Homer become dumber and dumber and louder and louder and become a character I did not like at all. Homer's Enemy is from Season 8 and I HATED that episode. It seemed totally out of character compared to the Homer of earlier seasons. From my point of reference season 2 Homer is correct which makes season 8 Homer out-of-character. A younger fan would think that season 2 Homer was out-of-character compared to the later Homer that was their first introduction. A famous season 8 episode is the Hank Scorpio episode. I find that episode hilarious but, holy ****, was it far removed from what the show started off with! At the end of the episode a supervillain has taken over the East Coast and Homer owns the Denver Broncos?! Huh? From my perspective of what I saw The Simpsons as that episode seemed like a total jump-the-shark moment. The Simpsons just wasn't that kind of show and really had not been that kind of show before that point. Later in that season you get a Mary Poppins spoof who literally flies with an umbrella. Uh, so we now have magic characters in The Simpsons? If you like that kind of zany comedy then that's great and I probably would like it if it was a brand new show. But it was not the show I grew up with. The characters were not the same and the style of humour was different.
You talk to someone 8 years younger than you and they'll have a different point of view. We're talking about a 20 year show. In that period of time everyone is going to have this run of five or six seasons that they think is the best and everything since then just doesn't cut it. And with 20 years to work with that span of seasons is going to be different for different people.
You just as easily have similar different points of view for a band that has been around for decades. Consider a band like U2 or The Rolling Stones where the style has sgnificantly changed over time and there will different ideas of when the band's peak was. Hell, we see it with videogames. What generation a person first started playing videogames in has a huge effect on their tastes and preferences.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: Dasmos on January 24, 2011, 08:10:58 PM
You've got such an old-man mentality and you're only 29. ****, I'd hate to see you at 60.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: Morari on January 24, 2011, 08:52:53 PM
Get off of his lawn!
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: bustin98 on January 24, 2011, 10:08:31 PM
I remember when the Fox channel launched. The only show I watched was Alien Nation. I heard good things about the Tracy Ulman Show, but never watched it. Then they announced a cartoon based on cartoons shown in Tracy's show. How weird is that going to be? And here we are.
I'm not old, either.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 24, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
I remember when the Fox channel launched. The only show I watched was Alien Nation. I heard good things about the Tracy Ulman Show, but never watched it. Then they announced a cartoon based on cartoons shown in Tracy's show. How weird is that going to be? And here we are.
I'm not old, either.
this post is a paradox.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: bustin98 on January 24, 2011, 10:22:44 PM
I miss your bouncing boobs. You should bring them back.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2011, 10:38:15 PM
Okay, first poll is up.
I went with Simpsons Season 1 - feels right as they're the ones who started it all. :D
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2011, 10:45:09 PM
That does sound right, I wouldn't even have to watch the DVD since I have watched everything on it hundreds of times. LOL. It's especially funny to watch the commentary for the original version of "Some Enchanted Evening" (like how the show would have failed if the rest of the season looked as bad as it since they didn't have the money to have all 13 episodes re-animated).
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 25, 2011, 07:08:09 AM
You're right, Ian. The earlier seasons weren't crazy like season 8. You'd never see a season 5 episode with a plot as ridiculous as Bart winning an elephant in a radio contest or Homer going into outer space.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: Morari on January 25, 2011, 09:31:47 AM
I want my elephant! I want my elephant! I want my elephant!
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: UncleBob on January 25, 2011, 12:17:24 PM
Amazon Gold Box: Any Simpsons season - $13.99 http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=xs_gb_A3UNYNIHCJYSBN?tag=cheapassgam08-20&ie=UTF8&docId=1000620171&pf_rd_p=441937901&pf_rd_s=right-1&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=20&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=03HMFVJ4XTSSPXKH1D7Q
I only need season 13, but can't find anything to anything in the range I want to spend to get it to $25 for free shipping. :(
The only sets I need to finish it all is the Family Guy Star Wars trilogy and Futurama 5, but they're both above my limit for buying TV Box sets... :(
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 25, 2011, 01:13:55 PM
You're not willing to pay $23 for Futurama season 5?
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: UncleBob on January 25, 2011, 01:30:19 PM
You're not willing to pay $23 for Futurama season 5?
Remember when Iwata talked about gamers not buying new release games because they'll go down to $20 a month later? Same thing here. I used to buy DVD sets the day of release - but it got too expensive and they were always on sale for less than half price three months later. With very rare exception, I don't buy a DVD set unless it's under $15 anymore.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 25, 2011, 01:42:53 PM
A lot of DVD sets can take years to ever get down that low though. Some never will (like the Star Trek ones). I would argue that The Simpsons sets are usually worth the $40 they launch at.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 25, 2011, 02:02:09 PM
I agree, but I never got around to picking up season 13, so although I'd have been willing to pay $40, I'm glad I didn't. With the deals and my $20 in Amazon credit, I just picked up Simpsons season 13, Futurama season 5, and Archer Season 1, all for about $30.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: UncleBob on January 25, 2011, 02:15:21 PM
A lot of DVD sets can take years to ever get down that low though. Some never will (like the Star Trek ones). I would argue that The Simpsons sets are usually worth the $40 they launch at.
Actually, GoHastings.com ran the complete Next Gen collection for $99 awhile back. :D
Anywhoo, yeah, there are some sets that can be hard to find below $15 - and like I said, there are a few exceptions to that rule... but it's about smart shopping. $40 isn't bad for a Simpsons season set... until you see it for $13.99 five months later.
The only bad part about this plan is that you start to fall behind when you're not paying attention to the various sales and you realize you're missing about 14 sets and get the urge to buy them all at once. :(
But, on the bright side, I ended up paying an average of less than $9 a season for 11 different sets...
Simpsons 11 $15.92 (Go Hastings.com B2G1 Free - Used) Simpsons 13 $13.99 (Amazon.com New) Simpsons 20 $0 (GoHastings.com B2G1 Free - Used) American Dad 2 $10 (eBay - used) American Dad 3 $5 (Target 2-Pack New) American Dad 4 $5 (Target 2-Pack New) American Dad 5 $13.71 (GoHastings.com B2G1 Free - Used) Family Guy 5 $12 (Walmart BF Sale) Family Guy 6 $12 (Walmart BF Sale) Family Guy 7 $12 (Walmart BF Sale) Family Guy 8 $13.46 (Walmart.com with 10% off) Cleveland Show 1 $13.99 (Amazon.com sale)
I don't want to think about how much that would have cost new. :D
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: that Baby guy on January 25, 2011, 03:21:19 PM
For what it's worth, Amazon has seasons 1-13 and 20 of the Simpsons for 13.99 as part of their gold box deals for today. That's better than some of UncleBob's prices! (If you don't count the B2G1Free part. But these are new.)
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 25, 2011, 03:23:17 PM
American Dad 3 $5 (Target 2-Pack New) American Dad 4 $5 (Target 2-Pack New)
I have the first two volumes, so I may get this next time I am at Target (and if they have it).
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 25, 2011, 04:26:12 PM
I just watched The Principal and the Pauper again, and I think it's a great episode. There are some great funny parts, and it's a really interesting exploration of the dynamics between the characters. People's reaction to Skinner (Tamzarian) being a fraud are really well done. Some people think the episode destroys Skinner's character, but I'd argue just the opposite; although the ending is a bit too deus ex machina, the town's decision to stick with the old Skinner even though he's not really Seymour Skinner really shows how important he is to the other people in Springfield. It's fairly crazy, but I think it's one of the best looks into the psychology of the town of Springfield in the entire series.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 25, 2011, 04:34:02 PM
There are too many logic gaps though. Remember the episode when he re-joined the army and everyone knew him as Skinner? Or that his diplomas were listed as Skinner? You would think the army would realize this guy wasn't Skinner. He looks exactly like his grandfather that served with Abe in the Flying Hellfish. This episode was just a major screw-you to the shows continuity. I think the ending is the writers basically apologizing and realizing what a terrible idea it was. I think the episode itself is OK, but not that good to me and not something that should have been done. It also tells fans that they shouldn't bother getting emotionally invested in any character on the show ever again because they may once again say it's all a lie.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 25, 2011, 04:57:06 PM
Yeah, it causes a few relatively minor continuity errors, but I wouldn't call them major, and I think the episode is good enough to justify them. My point is that I'm arguing Skinner's character is stronger and deeper because of this episode. He lied about his identity, but he's still who he was for the 9 seasons of the show up to that point. He's still the same person those people knew, and the real Skinner was a stranger to them, and because of that the people of Springfield would rather go back to living a lie in order to keep the Skinner they knew and loved. The episode shows how much the people of Springfield cared about Skinner, and anyone who was emotionally invested in the character should appreciate him even more because of it.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: Ian Sane on January 25, 2011, 05:31:36 PM
Quote
You're right, Ian. The earlier seasons weren't crazy like season 8. You'd never see a season 5 episode with a plot as ridiculous as Bart winning an elephant in a radio contest or Homer going into outer space.
I think the aftermath is what makes an episode crazy. The elephant goes to an animal santuary. Homer returns from space and life goes on. That is quite different than a supervillian having taken over the east coast and Homer owning the Denver Broncos. So how come in the next episode Homer doesn't own the Broncos? The space episode doesn't end with Homer being trapped on the moon. He doesn't encounter aliens or uncover a secret Soviet moonbase or anything like that. Or how about an episode where the whole town is so covered in garbage they move five miles down the road. WHAT THE ****? When has that ever happened and how COULD it possibly happen? What sort of hackneyed moron would ever write such a stupid ending?
At the very least Homer's involvement in going into space is fairly routine. The over-the-top part of the episode is that NASA wants to put the average man into space and Homer ends up getting picked. What actually happens is not really all that zany. Hypothetically it COULD happen. Sherry Bobbins flying with her magic umbrella cannot happen. The whole town moving five miles up the road could not happen. Homer flooding the town as an artistic statement or Homer taking control of a submarine and causing an international incident would result in him being put in prison.
To me what makes something zany is when you take a situation and the resulting storyline is ridiculous. It isn't the subject matter that determines it as ridiculous but the execution. In the earlier seasons there was the ocasional over-the-top situation but the story that resulted from it made sense. IF Bart had an elephant that is for the most part realistically would could happen. IF Homer was chosen to go into space that is for the most part realistically what could happen. For some people that doesn't matter but for me it does.
I also feel that Homer's character changed into something I didn't like. He went from a normal person who is really dumb and lazy to a retarded lunatic with no resemblance to a normal human being. Season 8 had Homer's Enemy. In that episode I HATED Homer and sided with Frank Grimes. So I can safely say that for me Season 8 is the turning point where the writers presented me with an unlikable and annoying Homer Simpson but told me that that was who I was supposed to cheer for. And looking up that episode on Wikipedia this episode is a favourite of many of the Simpsons staff including Matt Groening himself. So an episode I hated and consider easily one of the worst episodes of the show that I have seen is one of the favourites of the creator of the show? Obviously what The Simpsons staff writers like about the show and what I like are completely different. It's a lot like how once I found out what George Lucas REALLY wanted to do with Star Wars I realized that what I liked about the original films was more of less an accidental fluke.
And really this is all this is. Different people find different things funny and a good episode of The Simpsons is so packed with jokes that everyone is going to find something different in it that really cracks them up. I found that starting in season 7 what I found funny about The Simpsons was not showing up as much and by season 8 is was almost completely gone. And this makes sense as the writing staff rolled over during this time. Seasons 1 & 2 are kind of weak. Seasons 3 & 4 were run by Al Jean & Mike Reiss. Seasons 5 & 6 were run by David Mirkin. I find Season 7 to be hit-or-miss but four of those episodes were produced by Mirkin and aside from the Lisa vegitarian episode (which I found preachy) those make up my favourite episodes of that season as they're the only ones that really feel right to me. I pretty much bought season 7 on DVD for "the googles do nothing!" alone. I think it makes sense that the show ceased to feel right to me right around the time that different people were in charge. Different people would find different things funny and have a different idea of what The Simpsons should be like. It think it is a huge fortunate fluke that the Jean/Reiss era and the Mirkin era are of what I consider equal quality.
The creative talent make the show what it is. It makes perfect sense to lose interest in a show once the creative talent has changed. I like the entire run of Seinfeld (except the finale) while my brother does not like the last two seasons. Show co-creator Larry David had left the show for the last two seasons. Is it a coincedence that my brother does not like the only two seasons where someone else was in charge? No, it makes perfect sense. And it turned out that for my brother whatever Larry David specifically contributed to the tone of the show was essential and important while it did not matter so much for me. And once a show changes tone, and new writers have come in who fit that tone of the show and write in that style, there is no going back.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 25, 2011, 05:43:00 PM
I guess I'm in the minority for thinking continuity's not particularly important in a show like The Simpsons.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 25, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
If it was something like Family Guy, I might agree. That show generally ignores continuity. The Simpons, however, has generally been very careful with it (not perfect, but close). If a show normally follows continuity, it will be unusual when they do something that ignores the continuity.
Unlike Ian though, I had no problem with most of those episodes. The first season I thought was mixed was 9. Season 8 had some so-so episodes (like "Burns, Baby Burns"), but most of the season was fine. Season 9 had more episodes that I only liked or thought were mediocre.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: UncleBob on January 26, 2011, 01:09:04 AM
Just a note, I changed the poll so that everyone can edit their votes. I'm not sure when I end the voting and select the winner though...
American Dad 3 $5 (Target 2-Pack New) American Dad 4 $5 (Target 2-Pack New)
I have the first two volumes, so I may get this next time I am at Target (and if they have it).
Well... I got mine that cheap because the two-pack was mis-labeled. It was supposed to be labeled $29.99, but for some reason, the tag read $9.99. And it wasn't that the "2" was cut off. They also had a 2-pack of Family Guy (3&4) labeled this same way, but I already had those... which I had paid full price for...
For what it's worth, Amazon has seasons 1-13 and 20 of the Simpsons for 13.99 as part of their gold box deals for today. That's better than some of UncleBob's prices! (If you don't count the B2G1Free part. But these are new.)
Yeah, had I known Amazon was going to run this, I totally would have bit on both sets through them - however, accounting for the B2G1, I paid a bit less than $10/set... which isn't bad.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: vudu on January 26, 2011, 01:54:38 PM
After reading this thread, I've come to 3 conclusions:
First, you guys take The Simpsons way too seriously. I don't understand why someone would be bothered by the lack of continuity in a cartoon.
Second, American Dad must have improved a hundred-fold since the first season, because what I watched of it was pretty much garbage.
Third, everyone needs to stop referring to Simpsons episodes by the episode title alone--please accompany it with a one-sentence summary. Despite seeing the episode close to 10 times, I have no idea what The Principal and the Pauper was until Insanolord explained it in one of his posts.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: ShyGuy on January 26, 2011, 02:05:19 PM
Remember when UPN tried to do prime time cartoons?
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 26, 2011, 02:46:22 PM
Third, everyone needs to stop referring to Simpsons episodes by the episode title alone--please accompany it with a one-sentence summary. Despite seeing the episode close to 10 times, I have no idea what The Principal and the Pauper was until Insanolord explained it in one of his posts.
With older episodes it's usually not a problem. If I say "Homer's Barbershop Quartet", you will likely know what episode I mean. Over time though, when they started realizing that the public would see the episode title, they started coming up with names like "The Debarted" and "Fat Man and Little Boy". As for continuity, I see it no different than people being upset about movies. It may not ruin the whole thing, but it's still a little annoying.
I wouldn't say season 1 of AD was garbage, but I will say that it got much better over time. One reason was they finally let Roger leave the house when he wanted to by having him fall in love with dressing up and creating new alter-egos.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: Morari on January 26, 2011, 03:02:48 PM
First, you guys take The Simpsons way too seriously. I don't understand why someone would be bothered by the lack of continuity in a cartoon.
Agreed. These people seem to want the Simpsons to be just an average sitcom. Instead it's an animated comedy, where continuity doesn't matter very much.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 26, 2011, 03:56:58 PM
It is a sitcom that just happens to be animated. Should Toy Story be judged by less standards than a live action movie? No. If anything, The Simpsons sticks to continuity more than most live action shows.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: vudu on January 26, 2011, 04:14:35 PM
Continuity is generally a good thing. But when the writers choose to ignore it, it gives them a lot of freedoms they wouldn't otherwise have--such as having Homer work for a James Bond villain for an episode. A great idea doesn't necessarily have to be stifled because it doesn't fit with the continuity of the entire show. This is especially true with cartoons--the fact that they're animated generally allows the viewer to be more-forgiving about over-arching story lines from episode to episode.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: Shaymin on January 26, 2011, 04:51:10 PM
Remember when UPN tried to do prime time cartoons?
Yes, and I'm still pissed that they cancelled Dilbert.
Of course, they're no longer in existence.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: Ian Sane on January 26, 2011, 05:00:43 PM
A good comedy doesn't need continuity. But once continuity is established taking it away does not make any sense. You either consider it important or you don't. You don't just decide one day after adhering to it for years to remove it. Or at least if you do such a thing you can expect some people to be put off by it. It's like how South Park would have Kenny die in every episode with no explanation given as to how he was alive in the next episode. It was funny so it didn't matter. BUT it was also established from the very first episode that this was how it worked. It isn't like one episode, several seasons in, Kenny died and then was back in the next episode with no explanation given. If a non-Halloween episode of The Simpsons ended with Bart getting decapitated and then he was alive in well in the next episode with no explanation given it would probably kill off the show's viewership.
What I found so bizarre about the Principal Skinner thing is that who thought that was a good idea? I think any intelligent person would figure that revealing that a regular character was in fact an imposter would turn off SOME viewers. Is it really such a hilarious idea to take that kind of risk on? Is it going to benefit the show in the long run or create all sorts of new episode ideas? I mean shows change all the time. We'll see new kids being born, characters getting married, characters switching to a new job. There is a risk of turning off viewers with such a change but such a change can also allow for new storylines and ideas. But with this Skinner thing it was a one-time episode. You're going to completely change a character, with a really ridiculous storyline, for the pay off of ONE episode? It's a huge risk with minimal reward.
Hell, retcons are rarely a good idea. In real life people grow and change so if a character changes over time it is a least realistic. Even if the character turns into someone the audience doesn't like they can keep the fond memories of the past. When you change the past you piss all over those memories. It's the difference between your wife leaving you or finding out your wife NEVER loved you and the whole thing was just a big trick. How do you feel when you find out someone has been lying to you? That's what a retcon basically is.
So adding to the whole "who thought this Skinner thing was a good idea?" thing you're basically revealing to your audience that you have been LYING to them for 9 years. Why would you think this would go over well? On one hand the audience feels the same way the characters did except that the characters decide to just act as if the fake Skinner was the real one all along at the end. The real audience can't do that. You can write the characters to forget about the whole thing but you can't make the audience forget. So we all feel like the characters do except the resolution for the characters does not apply to us.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: vudu on January 26, 2011, 05:12:46 PM
A good comedy doesn't need continuity. But once continuity is established taking it away does not make any sense. You either consider it important or you don't. You don't just decide one day after adhering to it for years to remove it. Or at least if you do such a thing you can expect some people to be put off by it. It's like how South Park would have Kenny die in every episode with no explanation given as to how he was alive in the next episode. It was funny so it didn't matter. BUT it was also established from the very first episode that this was how it worked. It isn't like one episode, several seasons in, Kenny died and then was back in the next episode with no explanation given. If a non-Halloween episode of The Simpsons ended with Bart getting decapitated and then he was alive in well in the next episode with no explanation given it would probably kill off the show's viewership.
What about when Kenny died for real and was gone for most of--the entire?--season? Continuity was introduced. Then it was taken away again when he returned.
What about the fact that no one on the The Simpsons ages, despite seeing several birthdays during the nearly-20 seasons it's been on the air? Does that bother you?
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 26, 2011, 05:25:17 PM
Actually, they did introduce a storyline reason for why Kenny kept dying and coming back with no one noticing (basically, it's a curse that when he is killed he will wake up in his bed the next day and no one else will remember it).
Some characters have aged in the 22 seasons. Homer was 34 when it started, now he is 39. Apu and Manjula and octuplets who are now about 1 or 2. As for most not aging though, they take care of that by trying not to use dates (Matt has said he was against stating that Homer and Marge graduated in 1974 for this very reason). So when season 1 happened, Bart's birth year was 1979. Now it would be 2001. One episode (called "That 90's Show") had Bart doubt the 1990s even being real, Home and Marge were telling the kids what they did in the 12 years between hooking up at senior prom and Bart being born.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: King of Twitch on January 26, 2011, 05:36:35 PM
Ok but why are they all weird colors? It's hard to suspend disbelief when I see people with yellow skin and blue hair.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 26, 2011, 05:46:59 PM
The same way people do with sci fi shows. It's easy to suspend disbelief when watching various Star Trek shows, despite weird looking creatures (yes I know they are not human).
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: Ian Sane on January 26, 2011, 05:51:15 PM
Quote
What about when Kenny died for real and was gone for most of--the entire?--season? Continuity was introduced. Then it was taken away again when he returned.
What about the fact that no one on the The Simpsons ages, despite seeing several birthdays during the nearly-20 seasons it's been on the air? Does that bother you?
If you started out not caring about continuity and then introduced it and then got rid of it that remains consistent with the established format of not caring about continuity.
No one on the Simpsons ever HAS aged so from the start that was an acceptable part of the reality of the show. If they started aging that would be weird. Continuity doesn't mean it has to follow real life, it just has to follow the reality that the show presents. The Simpsons started off as a cartoon show with some semblance towards reality with a little bit of a cartoonishness like never-aging characters. It was clearly less cartoony than something like Bugs Bunny though. South Park started off from day one as a crazy anything-goes cartoon show (the first episode has ALIENS in it) so it always had more flexibility.
Continuity more or less means that your story does not contradict itself. If you already established in your story that characters don't appear to age and have yellow skin and blue hair then those are not inconsistent with continuity. Otherwise then Lord of the Rings has no continuity because there are no elves or hobbits or orcs in real life.
Futurama has the flexibility to do all sorts of crazy stuff but it still can't have Fry getting crushed by an anvil, saying "this means war!" and then being fine in the next scene without any explanation. It's a cartoon but the reality of the show is such that Fry is supposed to be like an actual human being so he has follow different rules than Elmer Fudd does despite them both being cartoon characters.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: Ian Sane on January 26, 2011, 06:37:43 PM
I just thought of something that demonstrates the change in the tone of the Simpsons and why I no longer enjoyed it.
In the Frank Grimes episode Homer is annoying and unlikable. He is also annoying and unlikable in the episode when him and Flanders are friends. The endings of those episodes demonstrate the change in tone. At the end of the Grimes episode Grimes is dead and yet Homer accidently sticks it to him one more time by snoring during his funeral which everyone finds funny. At the end of the Flanders episode Ned loses his temper with Homer and points out to everyone in church how annoying he is. But when the rest of the congregation gangs up on Ned, Homer is the only one who comes to his defense. Despite being annoying and driving Ned crazy the whole episode Homer demonstrates that he is a decent guy. That's what makes Homer likable and endearing. He can be stupid and selfish at times but overall is a good person. That's why you root for him.
That Homer would not lead someone into accidentally killing themselves and be so non-plussed by it. That Homer would not turn Springfield into a giant garbage heap. That Homer would throw back a giant catfish to prove his love to his wife. That Homer would be bothered by the fact that he saved the power plant from meltdown by complete fluke. That Homer was a real character with emotions and feelings and not just some big yellow gorilla who yells and does stupid stuff. I don't just watch a show to see talking heads spout off jokes. I also watch for the characters.
This is why so many people were turned off by the fake Skinner thing. Skinner was a character that the viewers had come to known and have some sort of attachment to. He was not just some drawing resembling a middle-aged man who spouted off funny lines.
Good writers can take an actor or a drawing and make them a character that you care about. Bad writers just use them as a prop.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: UncleBob on January 28, 2011, 08:06:12 PM
I'm going to end the poll here in the next day or so - so get your vote in (or make a change).
For what it's worth, while I do like Futurama better, I really think we should do the Simpsons first. It's the granddaddy of prime time cartoons! :D
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 28, 2011, 09:01:48 PM
Except I'd argue that the first season of The Simpsons is the worst season the show's had.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: UncleBob on January 29, 2011, 09:14:30 AM
Except I'd argue that the first season of The Simpsons is the worst season the show's had.
ehh... Perhaps - but even if, we still have to get through Season 1 before we can do seasons 2-22...
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: UncleBob on January 29, 2011, 04:02:38 PM
Futurama Volume 5, used - $17.67. Use coupon code JAN2DAY for 30% off - making the set $12.40. :D http://www.gohastings.com/product/MOVIE/USEDFuturama-Vol-5/sku/283316513.uts
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 29, 2011, 04:03:36 PM
Um, you forgot to mention where (not that I need it since I own it already).
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - First poll up
Post by: UncleBob on January 31, 2011, 12:06:58 AM
Simpsons, Season 1 it is! Everyone, go watch it, then come back and talk about it. :D
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2011, 12:16:23 AM
It sucked. I can't believe you just made me sit though that whole thing. The animation is bad, the characters look weird and even some of the voices sound off. I think that covers most of it.
what did everyone else think?
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 31, 2011, 12:42:10 AM
I will post full comments about it tomorrow, but you are being way too harsh. The season was a little primitive, but it wasn't that bad. As for the voices, they were the same ones from the shorts. Homer's voice only changed because it was a little too hard to do certain stuff with the Matthau voice.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: Ian Sane on January 31, 2011, 12:29:43 PM
Every time I go back and watch Simpsons Season 1 I expect it to be really bad. As a kid I hated when season 1 episodes came up in syndication. But every time I watch it I still find myself having a good laugh here and there. When the Simpsons was hot it was just non-stop funny. You would miss stuff because you were laughing during the next joke. With season 1 it's like they're not even trying to cram in that many jokes. They're content with one joke every two minutes or so. And then it's only funny maybe a third of the time. Still I never hate watching it as much as I think I will.
One thing that is interesting to note is how the geography changed. Homer is lying on the couch and there is a window facing outside behind him. Huh? Moe's has a saloon-style door. It's just little stuff like that.
The storylines also seem more like that of a conventional cartoon show. Bart being mistaken for a genius for example just reeks of something you would see in a weekday afternoon cartoon show aimed at kids. No comedy for adults would have something like that. It was partially through season 2 that it started to feel like the innovative comedy it became. It's funny to think that it was THIS season that kicked off Simpsons-mania. I was 8 years old at the time and The Simpsons were EVERYWHERE. Any conceivable merchandise that could exist, did exist. It was just unreal and it's so weird because it was after the initial "fad" calmed down that the show became really funny.
The Bleeding Gums Murphy episode is my least favourite of the season. Hell prior to me losing interest in the show I considered it by far the worst episode of the show period. It's just too serious of an episode. My favourite would be the one where they go camping. It is pretty silly at times but it's just the most consistently funny. It also has the best gag of the season when Homer sets up a trap to catch their dinner and the trap flings the rabbit miles into the air.
Season 1 is like the original Metroid. It's a rough first draft for a concept that became better later on and deserves a little slack as a result.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: Stogi on January 31, 2011, 01:19:56 PM
Season 1 gets a derisive and in-your-face "meh".
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 31, 2011, 04:38:37 PM
OK, first thing I should say is that people should buy the DVD. The episodes are really fun to watch while listening to the audio commentaries. They even include a ~12 minute long commentary for the original first episode "Some Enchanted Evening" (the animation was so terrible that they had to send it back to Korea to be re-animated, and said that the series would be canceled if the rest of the episodes looked like that because they didn't have the budget to redo all of them). The episodes may not be all that great looking since they were still getting used to it (the writers even admit that there were many weird looking people) and the voices were not quite set yet, but the foundations of the future were set. I like Bart rallying together almost all of the kids to finally take down Nelson, Homer redeems himself after a selfish birthday gift nearly causes Marge to have an affair, Lisa finds someone who shares her love of jazz and helps make her happy, and Bart getting Homer in trouble by taking a picture of Homer dancing with a stripper. I don't really care for "Call of the Simpsons" (the episode where they go camping and Homer gets mistaken for Bigfoot), and I wonder why Bart never used his French speaking skills again.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: Dasmos on January 31, 2011, 05:00:41 PM
Simpson Season 1: Smithers was originally a black guy. Otherwise it's **** and there's nothing of note.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 31, 2011, 06:38:40 PM
Only in the first episode, they fixed it for the rest of the season (for those that don't know, it was the Korean animators who did that. The producers have told fans to just pretend he returned from vacation with a deep tan).
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: UncleBob on January 31, 2011, 11:37:56 PM
I haven't had a chance to sit down with Simpsons Season 1 yet, but word up - Best Buy has some two packs for $20. American Dad 1&2, American Dad 3&4, King of the Hill 1&2, King of the Hill 3&4 and King of the Hill 5&6.
I dropped $60 on KotH... which makes me sad, knowing that 7-13 will never come out. :(
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 01, 2011, 12:42:43 AM
Maybe Fox can let Amazon do Manufacture on Demand releases for them like they do for other TV shows? They wouldn't have any extras in any form, but they would at least legally be on DVD. I think Fox knew they weren't gonna bother with all of the seasons since the last couple of sets got lazier in effort.
I will probably pick up the American Dad! 3&4 set since I own the others.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: UncleBob on February 01, 2011, 01:10:35 AM
I think the best chance for a release would be through Shout! Factory.
It's my understanding that FOX started cutting the special features out to reduce their costs to make the sets worth while for FOX to sell. And it did not.
It seems the internet thinks the series sold *respectable* numbers, just not Simpsons/Family Guy numbers - thus FOX just isn't interested in releasing more. Someone like Shout! Factory should be all over this.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: UncleBob on February 05, 2011, 07:29:11 PM
I've finally got around to popping Season 1 in the DVD Player. Watching the Christmas Special now. It's funny how all the background characters are various generic people - whereas now, pretty much everyone would be someone we've met in a previous episode.
Hints of series staples to come are all over in this episode - Homer's "D'oh" and "Why you little...!", silly messages on background signs, Barney's Burp, the crows at the power plant... they're all there, even in this raw, archaic episode.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: UncleBob on February 05, 2011, 10:44:48 PM
Only three episodes in, but something interesting - there's no B stories.
They missed the perfect joke - something that wouldn't happen later in. Homer's carrying a boulder to the bridge with the intent of killing himself (rather dark subject matter). He's walking in the street when someone almost runs him over. Homer yells out at the driver, but he totally should have yelled "Watch it, jerk! You almost killed me!"
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: ShyGuy on February 05, 2011, 10:50:20 PM
There were fewer jokes in earlier Simpsons
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: UncleBob on February 05, 2011, 11:11:09 PM
Moe's has a Black and White TV. Funny.
Homer's hocking the TV and the Pawn Shop guy asks "Is it cable ready?" - wow... talk about dated.
I want a Frosty Chocolate Milkshake...
Wow. Homer's at an arcade. And it's busy.
So, Moanin' Lisa had a B story - to an extent. Homer's attempt to beat Bart at Video Boxing. Sadly, this was more interesting than the "A" story. Perhaps this is why Family Guy craps on Meg so much - Lisa is just generally an uninteresting character - and always has been.
Worst couch gag ever. Entire family runs in and jumps on the couch....
...and nothing happens.
Another funny thing. Marge has one of the first (as far as air-dates, the first) singing role. I seem to recall somewhere (commentary, perhaps?) that Julie disliked singing in her Marge-voice (even though it's supposedly not that far off from her real voice) because it's hard to maintain...
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: UncleBob on February 06, 2011, 10:35:59 AM
Life on the Fast Lane and Homer's Night Out - the animation in these episodes has really cleaned up. The backgrounds are still raw, but the details in the forefront are pretty crisp.
Cold Pet Rat - these kinds of jokes just don't show up any more...
Anywhoo, is there anything more to say about Season 1? Should I throw up the next poll or is someone still watching the episodes waiting to comment?
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 06, 2011, 04:40:27 PM
Lisa was not that interesting in the first season, but that's because they hadn't really developed her that much. She was basically a female Bart, she got more interesting in later seasons.
"There's No Disgrace Like Home" is an odd episode. In it Homer is basically like a normal person and you can't blame him for being embarrassed by his family, normally he would be the one embarrassing the rest of the family.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: Ian Sane on February 07, 2011, 03:04:26 PM
Quote
He's walking in the street when someone almost runs him over. Homer yells out at the driver, but he totally should have yelled "Watch it, jerk! You almost killed me!"
I thought that fact that he yells at all was the joke. Like it was clearly implied that he's upset the guy almost killed him when it should be of no concern to him. The joke is there but it is subtle.
I always forget that the Bleeding Gums Murphy episode has the Video Boxing. That bit is one of my favourites from the first season but it is surrounded by such a weak episode I often forget which one it is in.
Lisa went from female Bart, to being the anti-Bart where she was smart and well behaved, and then later into a preachy self-righteous character. I really don't like what Lisa became and it more or less started with the vegetarian episode. But the in-between Lisa was a perfectly acceptable character and actually pretty likable. Lisa was funny when she was smarter than the rest of her family but had not yet realized she was smarter than them.
One example of preachy Lisa that is funny though is the Malibu Stacy episode. It works because it is more of parody of Lisa being preachy. They make fun of it with Bart complaining about her making them march in the gay pride parade and her throwing red paint at the Keebler people. The humour is from Lisa being over-the-top in her moralistic crusade. In later episodes it's like Lisa is the voice of the writers who are using her as their own soapbox.
In "There's No Disgrace Like Home" I think it is implied that Homer is not "normal". He blames his family for being disfunctional but fails to realize he contributes to it himself. And of course the big joke is the "perfect" family he saw at the company picnic is later at the psychiatrist's office themselves.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 07, 2011, 03:58:26 PM
I really do hate what Lisa, and also Flanders, became over the years. They went from unique, complex characters to stupid stereotypes.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 07, 2011, 04:10:40 PM
Really? Flanders has actually moved away from a stereotype. He used to be little more than a parody of these conservative religious types, he has developed into a more robust character since then. As for Lisa, occasionally she is too preachy (like in the episode "Lisa the Tree Hugger", but for the most part I think she is fine.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 07, 2011, 06:06:43 PM
I haven't watched the show much in the last few years, so maybe he's improved, but a few years ago he was just a right wing religious stereotype, someone to go against Lisa. Back in the "good old days" he was so much better of a character.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 07, 2011, 06:07:57 PM
He is still religious, but I would argue he is less of a stereotype than he was in the first 8 seasons. For example, the episode where he and Homer became bounty hunters. He also no longer blocks 99% of the channels on TV (kinda funny how he would pay for satellite but then block everything but one or two of them).
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 07, 2011, 06:09:58 PM
I'd argue he didn't even become a stereotype until well after the first 8 seasons.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 07, 2011, 06:19:52 PM
You really think so? Stereotypical stuff he did that you would expect from ultra religious people: *Scoutmaster for Junior Campers: *Obsessed with church and Bible (he actually wanted to ask Reverend Lovejoy if it was OK to play Capture the Flag on Sunday) and goes to church every day *Part of the Citizens' Committee on Moral Hygiene (the conservative groups who think they have a right to tell everyone else what they can say, watch, and do) *Doesn't gamble, smoke, curse, or anything similar.
And so on. Don't get me wrong, I thought he was a great character even early on, but he was a parody of religious stereotypes very early on. Once they had him have that mid-life crisis though, it gave them room to grow by finally letting him become angry at people and say when he is upset.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: Ian Sane on February 07, 2011, 06:54:04 PM
Tying it back to season 1, does it ever actually indicate the Ned is a super positive Christian guy in that season? We see Homer feeling the need to one-up Flanders by buying his own RV but do we yet know what a nice guy Ned is? He comes across kind of as a generic "better off than you" neighbour. In that situation you would understand why Homer hates him.
But once it is established that Ned is like the nicest guy in the entire world Homer looks like a huge prick for hating him... which is of course absolutley hilarious. Though I have not watched recent Simpsons episodes in like ten years so I have no idea what Ned is like now. When I watched he was goofily over-the-top in his religiousness but seemed like a really nice guy who helps out everybody.
Title: Re: FOX Prime Time Cartoons - Simpsons, Season 1
Post by: TJ Spyke on February 07, 2011, 07:01:15 PM
I don't think they were trying to make Ned come off that way, Home was jealous because Ned could afford better things than him (something that would continue in season 2 when he admitted to Ned that he was upset at Ned having better stuff). But yeah, they didn't really establish his religious nature in season 1 (but he was only in 2 episodes, and both were pretty brief).
