Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Marty on August 30, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
Title: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Marty on August 30, 2010, 01:21:30 PM
I've just started up another game of Super Metroid (perhaps my 7th or 8th playthrough) in anticipation of 'Other M', and once again I am flabbergasted at how satisfying the game is. As with most great works of popular culture, however, it has one downside: it vastly raises your standards.
As any fan of 'The Wire' or 'Deadwood' will tell you, what you consider quality entertainment is extremely relative. After having been exposed to something as sophisticated as Super Metroid or the Metroid Prime Trilogy, you can become desensitised to games, which while still good, are of a lesser pedigree.
Fortunately the human mind is a fickle organ, and while great works will continue to burn like embers at the back of your brain, you will eventually become accustomed to a steady diet of 'moderately entertaining'. The problem I have with Super Metroid (a game which I consciously deny myself for years at a time) is that it reignites that thought at the back of my head,
"why aren't all games this good?"
It's a shame, because I was just beginning to enjoy 'Super Turrican'......Damn you 'Super Metroid'.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: ThePerm on August 30, 2010, 02:36:31 PM
oh i get that feeling all the time. Thats why I had 30 GCN games, but now only have 5 Wii games. My standards are much higher than others. I've gone picky.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Ian Sane on August 30, 2010, 03:26:25 PM
If you want to enjoy great works this is just a necessary evil. You can spend your time limiting yourself to mediocrity or you can experience Super Metroid. That's the trade-off. I think being able to experience the best is worth it.
Plus I don't feel like I've done anything wrong so why should I beat myself up over it? Super Metroid is over 15 years old. Developers today have bigger budgets and more powerful hardware to work with. I think they should be able to make something comparable in quality.
And it isn't like I only enjoy games as good as Super Metroid. I just have a standard and I'm not really that interested in games that fail to meet it. I think there is an attitude that someone becomes an elitist and they become more and more picky and develop unrealistic expectations. I think that certainly can happen but whenever I look back at something that it seems "isn't as good as it used to be" usually it really does seem as if the quality has diminished.
I don't seem to like as much new music these days as I did when I was younger. I have thought that perhaps I have just become more picky. But when I look at the music I liked then, most of it I STILL like. There is some that doesn't hold up but if I look at music history as a whole there appear to be eras where I prefer more material than others. For some eras I prefer more mainstream stuff, for some more obscure stuff, for some there is lots, for some there is little. It goes up and down all over the place without any sort of obvious bias. And some stuff no longer interests me because of my tastes becoming more "refined". Well if some stuff has not held up wouldn't a whole lot of it not if my tastes have changed? My tastes in comic strips and cartoon shows have changed since I was a kid and looking back at the old stuff it's like a big purge where tons of crap is exposed. Not so with music. That suggests to me that it's not me, that the quality of music really has diminished - or at least has according to my tastes.
I remember a time around when Seinfeld had ended and shows like Surivor were starting up and I didn't like ANY comedy on TV. It was brutal. None of it seemed funny. You would think that maybe Seinfeld ruined comedy shows for me. Not so. There are lots of comedies that later came out that I loved. I think there was just a weak couple of years there. If things appear to diminish and then come back strong that isn't elitist bias or anything like that. That suggests that we did have a dip in quality for a bit.
So when I look at how I have less Wii games than I had Cube games I think it really is mostly that, at least for me, the Wii just doesn't have as strong of a lineup of games. There are some Cube games I can say don't hold up but overall the standards and quality have remained consistent. I don't think it's me.
I disagree with people who use the argument that "this is the best thing going right now" as a valid excuse for embracing mediocrity. My bandmate, who has similar tastes in music as myself, once bought a Maroon 5 album because even though it wasn't that great it was better than most of what else was being released at the time (in his opinion). I felt that was lame because to me something is good or it isn't and I wouldn't settle for something just because it was merely "more good" than something poor. If it got to a point where there just weren't any great games coming out I just wouldn't play games period. That's just the way I am.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: ThePerm on August 30, 2010, 04:23:17 PM
so youd be in my position :P
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: greybrick on August 30, 2010, 07:49:02 PM
oh i get that feeling all the time. Thats why I had 30 GCN games, but now only have 5 Wii games. My standards are much higher than others. I've gone picky.
@ Marty, dammit now you've got ME playing Super Metroid! Except I am playing it instead of Other M, not in anticipation.
I get a strange thrill when playing horrible games, to the point where I by no means regret my purchase of Happy Birthday Mart. I can't play them for all that long, but I will play them nonetheless.
I got pretty tired of TV and don't watch much any more, so I guess you could say I am picky about that. I am very picky about music, but that is mostly because I actually (brace yourself) purchase music.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: ThePerm on August 30, 2010, 08:02:05 PM
i understand the kick out of playing shitty games, but I only get that kick if I didn't buy them.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: greybrick on August 30, 2010, 08:04:25 PM
i understand the kick out of playing ****ty games, but I only get that kick if I didn't buy them.
True, at $10 even I would have been sad about Happy Birthday Mart.
If the price is right, I will get a crappy game for a laugh. To further clarify: I play most of my crappy games for review on the iPhone. There have been some things that I would have never willingly bought, and yet I got so much joy out of how bad they were.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: ThePerm on August 30, 2010, 11:46:36 PM
i remember the worst game i ever played for free was called
my buddy had a bunch of DC games to play so we played a crapload of them one night...oh my gosh this one....hheheh, so bad it was fun.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 31, 2010, 12:26:51 AM
I recently got the last 30 or so stars I was missing in Super Mario Galaxy, then moved on to playing Metroid Prime for the first time, and when I finish that I'll probably jump into Galaxy 2. I already feel bad for whatever game has to follow that.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 31, 2010, 12:45:00 AM
I just beat SM a week or so ago, although it was probably more like my 25th playthrough. Definitely a great game, I make a point of playing through it twice a year at least.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Mop it up on August 31, 2010, 01:46:46 AM
Has anyone played Superman 64? I've beaten it. Sometimes its abysmality is hilarious.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Adrock on August 31, 2010, 02:02:07 AM
Is abysmality a word? Even if it isn't, I feel like it still works here as if you're saying Superman 64 is so bad that you actually had to create a word to describe how bad it really is.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: ThePerm on August 31, 2010, 03:06:00 AM
i think english is very flexible with suffixes, Abysmalness would be my first choice, but Abysmality sounds good too.
I recently got the last 30 or so stars I was missing in Super Mario Galaxy, then moved on to playing Metroid Prime for the first time, and when I finish that I'll probably jump into Galaxy 2. I already feel bad for whatever game has to follow that.
I was inspired to hunt for a copy of the Prime Trilogy recently... $70 is the cheapest I can find it new. I don't know if I could deal with the vanilla GC version knowing the new one was out there.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 31, 2010, 03:44:37 AM
I recently got the last 30 or so stars I was missing in Super Mario Galaxy, then moved on to playing Metroid Prime for the first time, and when I finish that I'll probably jump into Galaxy 2. I already feel bad for whatever game has to follow that.
I was inspired to hunt for a copy of the Prime Trilogy recently... $70 is the cheapest I can find it new. I don't know if I could deal with the vanilla GC version knowing the new one was out there.
For once, my habit of buying games when they come out instead of waiting until I'm ready to play them pays off. It almost cancels out me buying MadWorld new for $50 and not playing it at all yet.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Marty on August 31, 2010, 09:25:37 AM
I was inspired to hunt for a copy of the Prime Trilogy recently... $70 is the cheapest I can find it new. I don't know if I could deal with the vanilla GC version knowing the new one was out there.
I own every concievable version of the Prime Trilogy. I have Metroid Prime 1 & 2 on gamecube, I also have Metroid Prime 3 Corruption, and I also own Trilogy (which I purchased the day it was released, just so that I could play Prime 1 & 2 with the fantastic wii controls).
The trilogy versions are ultimately superior, but there is something to be said for the Gamecube versions. The more deliberate pacing that the gamecube controls brought to those games is enjoyable in it's own way. Boss battles are way more fun with Wii controls though.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Sundoulos on August 31, 2010, 09:41:40 AM
I was inspired to hunt for a copy of the Prime Trilogy recently... $70 is the cheapest I can find it new. I don't know if I could deal with the vanilla GC version knowing the new one was out there.
I own every concievable version of the Prime Trilogy. I have Metroid Prime 1 & 2 on gamecube, I also have Metroid Prime 3 Corruption, and I also own Trilogy (which I purchased the day it was released, just so that I could play Prime 1 & 2 with the fantastic wii controls).
The trilogy versions are ultimately superior, but there is something to be said for the Gamecube versions. The more deliberate pacing that the gamecube controls brought to those games is enjoyable in it's own way. Boss battles are way more fun with Wii controls though.
Yeah...I traded in my gamecube copies to get the Trilogy on the Wii. They are superior, but I was a little disappointed that some of the beam effects from the Gamecube versions were toned down on the Wii. That's a minor nitpick, but the fastidous side of me wishes I had kept my old cube versions of 1 & 2.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Marty on August 31, 2010, 09:46:35 AM
Yeah...I traded in my gamecube copies to get the Trilogy on the Wii. They are superior, but I was a little disappointed that some of the beam effects from the Gamecube versions were toned down on the Wii. That's a minor nitpick, but the fastidous side of me wishes I had kept my old cube versions of 1 & 2.
Yeah I remember hearing that aswell. I also noticed that some of the water and visor effects were toned down. Not a big deal, given the trade-off, but defintely noticable.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Sundoulos on August 31, 2010, 10:18:25 AM
Oh, and by the way, in case someone out there hasn't heard it yet, I'd recommend the Super Metroid Retrospective by RFN...Episode 142: Cue the Somber Music. (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/18237) I haven't listened to it in a long time, but I'll probably give it a spin again at work today in anticipation for Other M. This episode and the original Ocarina of Time anniversary are still my favorite episodes of the podcast.
I'd recommend checking it out if you haven't already.
EDIT: And for even more Metroid talk...here's an even older episode: Episode 47: Jonny Kinda Likes Metroid (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/13309)
Also, Player One Podcast Episode 201 (http://www.playeronepodcast.com) had a game club discussion on Super Metroid this week; the discussion of the actual game was nice and nostalgic (check around the 40 minute mark), but, IMHO, the episode as a whole wasn't one of their best. I was listening while jogging yesterday, and actually got kind of mad because they were really aimless for that first 30 minutes or so(I have a cheap MP3 player that isn't really good with chapter breaks). It's too bad because I normally love the podcast.
Anyway, I liked Player One's actual discussion of the game because, as a gamer in my 30s, I naturally have a lot of fond memories of the games I experienced in my childhood. So many of the things that we take for granted now in game design were mind-blowing at the time (e.g. the size of Kraid, the eeriness of walking into a room and seeing the dead Space Pirates crumble into dust).
Most of the participants of the Player One Podcast are around my age (or perhaps a little older), but their experiences of playing Super Metroid for the first time mirror my own. However the game may stack up against games now, for the time, going through the game for the first time was an amazing odyssey.
'As cited elsewhere, Super Metroid certainly has it's frustrating points (certain areas in Maridia are an oft-cited example), but there is a reason that it's still held up as a model for exploration-based 2D platforming.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Marty on August 31, 2010, 10:26:41 AM
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll maybe download that later.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 31, 2010, 10:29:32 AM
I recently got the last 30 or so stars I was missing in Super Mario Galaxy, then moved on to playing Metroid Prime for the first time, and when I finish that I'll probably jump into Galaxy 2. I already feel bad for whatever game has to follow that.
I was inspired to hunt for a copy of the Prime Trilogy recently... $70 is the cheapest I can find it new. I don't know if I could deal with the vanilla GC version knowing the new one was out there.
Have you looked on half.com? Last time I checked there they had used copies for about $48... but I'm not sure what it is at the moment. All the hype surrounding the release of Other M has probably reawakened interest in Metroid Prime so I wouldn't be surprised if the demand for it has shot up.
Actually, I just checked... there is one copy in like new condition right now for $47, but you have to be quick and get it before someone else does. Everything else on there is like $60+ which is still better than $70 I guess.... its a collectors item so its value is only going to keep going up. Grab it as cheap as you can ASAP.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Ian Sane on August 31, 2010, 01:22:10 PM
Quote
I get a strange thrill when playing horrible games, to the point where I by no means regret my purchase of Happy Birthday Mart. I can't play them for all that long, but I will play them nonetheless.
I can get a thrill out of watching a bad movie if it's so bad it's good. But I can't do that with games because they're interactive. I have to work at a bad videogame, which is unappealing, while with a bad movie I can just sit there and watch it.
But then you get something like Metal Gear Solid 4 which is a good videogame but a BAD movie. That works because it's not frustrating to play through it. Man, if Hideo Kojima actually made a movie it would be one of these legendary bad films that have like midnight showings on college campuses and such.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: greybrick on August 31, 2010, 02:01:31 PM
I recently got the last 30 or so stars I was missing in Super Mario Galaxy, then moved on to playing Metroid Prime for the first time, and when I finish that I'll probably jump into Galaxy 2. I already feel bad for whatever game has to follow that.
I was inspired to hunt for a copy of the Prime Trilogy recently... $70 is the cheapest I can find it new. I don't know if I could deal with the vanilla GC version knowing the new one was out there.
Have you looked on half.com? Last time I checked there they had used copies for about $48... but I'm not sure what it is at the moment. All the hype surrounding the release of Other M has probably reawakened interest in Metroid Prime so I wouldn't be surprised if the demand for it has shot up.
Actually, I just checked... there is one copy in like new condition right now for $47, but you have to be quick and get it before someone else does. Everything else on there is like $60+ which is still better than $70 I guess.... its a collectors item so its value is only going to keep going up. Grab it as cheap as you can ASAP.
I was too late, but thanks for the tip. I will have to wait until October to buy this since by then I should have a real job, since right now my volunteer internship only "pays" me in valuable experience. Ah, college :)
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Chozo Ghost on August 31, 2010, 03:54:09 PM
Even if you end up paying more than the $49.99 MSRP to get a copy of Prime Trilogy I would still say its very much worth it, because you have to consider you're not just getting one game but all three of them at once. Metroid Prime 3 is still the original price, I think... I don't know what Prime 1 & 2 are priced at these days, but you'd have to get those used and they wouldn't have the motion controls.
So if you have to pay $60-$70 for Trilogy I definitely think its still worth it considering its all three games, and there's no other way to get the first two with the Wii controls. But the sad thing about it is I remember last year during the holidays there was a sale somewhere that had Trilogy for $19.99 and it almost makes me cry to think about that now because it will never be that cheap again and it was a missed opportunity, because I could have bought like a dozen copies and I'd be rich now, lol.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Mop it up on August 31, 2010, 09:16:22 PM
When the Metroid Prime Trilogy was $20, I didn't have any extra money for it because it was the holiday season. But I figured that I'd be able to find that somewhere down the line, since Metroid isn't very popular compared to most other Nintendo series. Since I have all three games separately, $20 is the most I would be willing to pay. Looks like I won't be getting it.
I feel like it still works here as if you're saying Superman 64 is so bad that you actually had to create a word to describe how bad it really is.
You got it. As far as I could find there is no noun form of the word "abysmal."
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 01, 2010, 10:52:49 AM
It isn't just that its all three games. Its also (currently anyway) the only way you can play the first two with Wii controls. Plus it all comes on one disc and you get a sturdy metal case, so its all around better than having all three games separately.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: greybrick on September 01, 2010, 12:21:04 PM
It isn't just that its all three games. Its also (currently anyway) the only way you can play the first two with Wii controls. Plus it all comes on one disc and you get a sturdy metal case, so its all around better than having all three games separately.
Chozo, all of these things I know, but I am on a tight budget. Right now I am staring at three birthdays coming up, and my school break. So I could get presents for the people I care about and also have some fun out during break, or I can put a $70 dollar dent in that with a game that I already own 1/3 of.
I did say that I will be working soon, so once I rake in a paycheck I can afford it. Will that be satisfactory, Chozo? :)
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: ThePerm on September 01, 2010, 03:16:41 PM
Speaking of so terrrible their good
anyone ever played Custard's Revenge? or a Knight on the Town?
to be honest as far as Atari 2600 games go they aren't bad.
now for a bed intruder game
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 01, 2010, 03:35:50 PM
I have never heard anything positive about Custer's Revenge. Terrible gameplay, terrible graphics (even by Atari 2600 standards), and revolting plot (you are trying to dodge arrows so that you can rape a Indian girl who is tied to a cactus).
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: greybrick on September 01, 2010, 03:51:35 PM
Hide yo' kids, hide yo' wife- and hide yo' husbin cuz they rapin err'body out here...
I imagine that it would be a bullet hell shooter, and you?
@ TJ, I think the point is that it is horrible, and to the point where you enjoy it.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Ian Sane on September 01, 2010, 04:48:51 PM
The thing I find so bizzare about Custer's Revenge is that some company decided that erotic games would be a good idea during a time where no hardware existed that could depict an attractive human being. Who would honestly be turned on by Custer's Revenge with it's incredibly blocky graphics? If that turns your crank then you probably could get hot and bothered looking at homemade stickman drawings and you can create those yourself for much cheaper than a videogame would have cost.
Or is Custer's Revenge not supposed to be sexual stimulating and is more like crude humour?
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 01, 2010, 05:46:09 PM
The reason why Custer's Revenge had to be rated adult and prohibited from children isn't because it accurately depicts human anatomy, but because it simulates the act of rape. I don't know if people were turned on by it or not, but if they were it wasn't because of the graphics but by the act itself... some people like rape and are turned on by it and would have enjoyed that regardless of the quality of the graphics. Just like how people can be turned on by erotic fiction, where its only text but it describes things that arouse them. And of course, in the Atari 2600 days blocky graphics were all that was available so you made due.
But the main appeal of the game was most likely because of the controversy surrounding it. The game was crap in all respects, but it managed to piss off a lot of people and whenever you have controversy like that you have people drawn to it like a moth to a flame and that's probably where the bulk of the sales came from. Some company could create a Terrorist simulation game where you play as a terrorist and hijack planes and fly them into buildings, and of course that would piss off people. Glen Beck and O'reilly would be ranting about it and there woudl be protests against it, but that would make people aware of its existence and it would sell on that basis even if the gameplay was as terrible as Superman64.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: ThePerm on September 01, 2010, 05:57:09 PM
probably more like crude humor, its just funny when you get to the end, and then you begin to complete the objective.
A Night on the Town is like legitimately fun, if it didn't have perverted graphics the company might still be around. A Night on the Town is similar to custards revenge, except your crossing a mote, and you got to lay down the bricks for the bridge, if you don't jump fast enough an alligator bites your privates off or a goblin rapes you. The best thing i could compare it to is a cross between Frogger, and Lemmings.
The game was crap in all respects, but it managed to piss off a lot of people and whenever you have controversy like that you have people drawn to it like a moth to a flame and that's probably where the bulk of the sales came from.
That reminds me of a game about the Columbine shootings where you play as the shooter. It was an RPG with pretty basic gameplay, and it got a lot of buzz due to the controversy around it.
It isn't just that its all three games. Its also (currently anyway) the only way you can play the first two with Wii controls. Plus it all comes on one disc and you get a sturdy metal case, so its all around better than having all three games separately.
None of that changes the actual games though, so it isn't worth it for anyone who owns all three. Even $20 was pushing it, $10 would have been the sweet spot. I'm a little surprised it never got to that price, but after thinking about it, I guess it makes sense. It would seem that the popularity of the Wii has inflated the prices of many of its games, and so Prime 3 and the Trilogy have both held their value far more than Prime 1 and 2. I remember that I got the original Metroid Prime about a year after release for $8.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: ThePerm on September 01, 2010, 07:26:00 PM
i need a new copy of Metroid prime 2 because my dog ate it :(
I missed out on the whole Trilogy Deal, I really should have picked it up. My only problem with it was I had 3 already, and I had forgotten that my dog ate 2. How does someone forget about their dog eating their game? The dog also ate my Party Monster DVD :(, your dog eats a couple of your things, and you start to lose track.
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Chozo Ghost on September 01, 2010, 07:27:54 PM
The company which made Custer's Revenge also made some other Adult games, but they vanished like a lot of other video game companies during the video game crash of 1983.
It isn't just that its all three games. Its also (currently anyway) the only way you can play the first two with Wii controls. Plus it all comes on one disc and you get a sturdy metal case, so its all around better than having all three games separately.
None of that changes the actual games though, so it isn't worth it for anyone who owns all three. Even $20 was pushing it, $10 would have been the sweet spot. I'm a little surprised it never got to that price, but after thinking about it, I guess it makes sense. It would seem that the popularity of the Wii has inflated the prices of many of its games, and so Prime 3 and the Trilogy have both held their value far more than Prime 1 and 2. I remember that I got the original Metroid Prime about a year after release for $8.
Did you really just state that Metroid Prime Trilogy should have been $10? SMITE SMITE SMITE
Title: Re: Damn you 'Super Metroid'
Post by: Mop it up on September 02, 2010, 07:34:17 PM
No, I did not. I was simply saying that, for me, personally, $10 (new or used) would have been ideal, since I already own all three games. Though I probably would have gotten it for $20 if I had the money at that time.
