Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: TheBlackCat on August 24, 2010, 12:39:49 AM
Title: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 24, 2010, 12:39:49 AM
Lots of things in video games have weird names for no reason. But sometimes there is actually interesting reasons behind the names, or some sort of meaning that isn't immediately obvious. Symbols also have significance that may not be readily apparent. You can also discuss the origin of specific terms commonly used in games today.
For instance, in Chrono Trigger one of the characters is named Magus. Magus is actually a generic term for a magician, sorcorer, or astrologer. The three wise men from the Christmas story are also called the three magi, which is the plural of magus. It can also refer to a priest of the Zoroastrian religion.
In the Metroid series, Chozo (or Chouzou rather) actually means carved statue or sculpture in Japanese. Having that as the name of the race was a result of miscommunication between the American and Japanese branches of the company. In the Japanse versions of the Metroid games, the Chozo are referred to as chōjin-zoku which literally means "race of bird-humans", although apparently the name Chozo is becoming more popular in Japan.
The name Ridley, the boss from the Metroid series, is named after Ridley Scott, the director of Aliens.
The triforce is actually the first step of a famous fractal called Sierpinski’s triangle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierpinski_triangle)
So does anyone have any other interesting stories about the meaning or origin of a name or symbol in video games?
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: MegaByte on August 24, 2010, 12:49:35 AM
Well since Metroid is hot stuff nowadays, I thought I'd mention how the Varia Suit came about as a mistranslation of Barrier Suit.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: broodwars on August 24, 2010, 12:54:09 AM
Lots of things in video games have weird names for no reason. But sometimes there is actually interesting reasons behind the names, or some sort of meaning that isn't immediately obvious. Symbols also have significance that may not be readily apparent.
For instance, in Chrono Trigger one of the characters is named Magus. Magus is actually a generic term for a magician, sorcorer, or astrologer. The three wise men from the Christmas story are also called the three magi, which is the plural of magus. It can also refer to a priest of the Zoroastrian religion.
It's also worth noting on that train of thought that the 3 "wise men" in Chrono Trigger are named Balthazar; Melchior; and Gaspar, I believe the names the of the 3 wise men from the story. But most people probably noticed that.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Mop it up on August 24, 2010, 04:45:09 AM
I've looked for explanations as to why Birdo is named Birdo when clearly she is not a bird, but have found nothing.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Stratos on August 24, 2010, 06:05:10 AM
Also, related to Chrono Trigger, Masamune was the name of a world renowned Japanese swordsmith. I first learned about that from the bios info from Soul Calibur 2 as one of the swords in that game is also named Masamune.
I've looked for explanations as to why Birdo is named Birdo when clearly she is not a bird, but have found nothing.
Because Birdo shoots eggs?
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on August 24, 2010, 10:25:20 AM
Developers tend to do this a lot with nomenclature in video games - presumably, they want the player to make a connection between this fantastical character/place (more often than not) and something in the real world. You see this all the time in Pokémon, as well as many enemies & bosses in Mario and Zelda games.
Just about every Pokémon has a fairly obvious origin for its name... Bulbasaur = Bulb of a plant + '-saur', common suffix of dinosaurs, and in Japan, Bulbasaur is called Fushigidane, which I believe translates as 'strange grass'. Most of those don't need explaining.
With video game etymology in general, it's usually either a portmanteau of two words that describe the character in question or it is simply derived from a translation, such as the Chozo example. To provide another example, look at the Wario moniker, which combines Mario and the Japanese adjective for bad, warui, to make what essentially means 'bad Mario'. Ditto for Waluigi.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Ian Sane on August 24, 2010, 12:08:52 PM
Quote
provide another example, look at the Wario moniker, which combines Mario and the Japanese adjective for bad, warui, to make what essentially means 'bad Mario'.
As a kid I thought the idea was that it was war-io, war being those big battle things where lots of people die. It seemed that associating evil Mario with war was a logical idea. Plus you got the upside down "M" on the hat with the "W". I guess Nintendo more or less fluked into that.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 24, 2010, 12:41:19 PM
I thought this would be a thread about more general video game terms, like why the harder to kill enemy at the end of a stage is called a boss. Or why we call extra lives 1-ups.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Ian Sane on August 24, 2010, 01:57:24 PM
I think the boss thing came from Renegade. The major enemies were the "bosses" of the gang. Bit of an Engrish thing I guess.
I could get "boss" being a common unofficial term but there are games that outright use the term even when it makes no sense. You'll play shmups where some big alien approaches and it will say "BOSS APPROACHING" on the screen or show the energy meter with "Boss" written next to it. How is this a boss? I get it as videogame slang but from a storyline perspective it makes no sense why the aliens would refer to their mothership or some giant alien as their "boss". At least in Zelda they'll call the boss a "guardian". We still call it a boss but the game doesn't.
Looking in the manual for the original Metroid it constantly refers to two "mini-bosses", that being Kraid and Ridley. And it mentions it in such a serious way too as if that's the proper term and Samus herself would call them that. And they aren't even mini-bosses, they're full on bosses. A mini-boss is like a lesser boss you encounter halfway through a level. The Chozo statues in Super Metroid are mini-bosses. Kraid and Ridley are clearly just bosses.
Imagine using the term mini-boss at work for like an assistant manager. Mini-boss is such a little kid word. I'm blown away that any adult has used it in an official manual.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Morari on August 24, 2010, 03:51:29 PM
Cthon and Shub-Niggruath, two bosses from the original Quake, are both action gods from Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos. Likewise, a handful of the normal monsters (such as the Shambler) and many of the levels (Vaults of Zinn?) make reference to the Mythos.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: vudu on August 24, 2010, 04:04:30 PM
It's also worth noting on that train of thought that the 3 "wise men" in Chrono Trigger are named Balthazar; Melchior; and Gaspar, I believe the names the of the 3 wise men from the story. But most people probably noticed that.
Psh ... everyone knows Ozzie, Flea and Slash are where it's at.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: King of Twitch on August 24, 2010, 04:19:00 PM
The wise men were not given names.
Yet another reason for Sakamoto to not be allowed near Metroid ever again.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: MegaByte on August 24, 2010, 04:21:38 PM
But they were given those names in later tradition. They've also been used elsewhere, such as the the names of the computers in Neon Genesis Evangelion.
I find the recurring characters Biggs and Wedge in Final Fantasy more amusing -- these are the names of two of Luke's friends in Star Wars.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: broodwars on August 24, 2010, 04:23:40 PM
I find the recurring characters Biggs and Wedge in Final Fantasy more amusing -- these are the names of two of Luke's friends in Star Wars.
It's always funny to read complaints about Final Fantasy supposedly "going more Sci-Fi and away from its roots" and whatnot considering one of the earliest traditions in the series is having two characters named after obscure Star Wars characters. :P:
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: apdude on August 24, 2010, 04:33:17 PM
Anyone know where the recurring FF character name "Cid" came from? I recall there was a reason for it but I can't remember where I heard it.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 24, 2010, 04:36:44 PM
They aren't named in the Bible (it doesn't even say there were three of them), but they do have names in "unofficial" books (apocrypha) that nevertheless became part of the Christian tradition. The names vary depending on the tradition, the names in Chrono Trigger are the names in the Western (Catholic) tradition, while the Eastern (Orthodox) tradition uses other names.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 24, 2010, 04:41:41 PM
Two perhaps less obvious Pokemon names are the fighting-type Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee. They are named after Bruce Lee and Jacki Chan. I'll leave it up to you to figure out which is named after which.
Also, Gengar, the ghost-type, was supposed to be named Phantom, but there were obsure trademark issues with that name.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: TheBlackCat on August 24, 2010, 04:45:38 PM
I thought this would be a thread about more general video game terms, like why the harder to kill enemy at the end of a stage is called a boss. Or why we call extra lives 1-ups.
Feel free to do so if you want. I've edited the OP accordingly. Although I always assumed they were called 1-ups because they raise your life count by 1.
Along these lines, the now common name "clan" for a group of affiliated online players originally comes from Netmech, the online version of Mechwarrior 2 and one of the first popular multiplayer online games. In the Mechwarrior universe, the villains, genetically-engineering invaders (who you play as) are called clans. In Netmech players who often worked together made up their own unoffical clans and the name has stuck.
Also, Vulcan, a common name for a basic machine gun (often with infinite ammo) in shooters is not named after the Star Trek race or the Roman god, but is instead named after the M61 vulcan, a gatling gun which has been the principle gun on U.S. fixed-wing aircraft for decades, and has been used in many other roles as well.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Mop it up on August 24, 2010, 05:49:24 PM
Also, Gengar, the ghost-type, was supposed to be named Phantom, but there were obsure trademark issues with that name.
This is the first i've heard of there being any trademark issues. A lot of Pokemon had different names early on (for example, Chansey's English name was originally going to be the same as its Japanese name: Lucky).
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Louieturkey on August 24, 2010, 06:03:47 PM
FYI the term 1UP actually was originally used in pinball machines where when 1UP was displayed it was the 1st player's turn to play and the 2UP for the 2nd player and so on. 1-up was I believe first used for an extra life in Super Mario Bros. So pinball machiens coined the phrase but Nintendo purposed it for what it is used for now.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Mop it up on August 24, 2010, 06:10:14 PM
Was the term "1-up" used in Donkey Kong or Mario Brothers? I thought it was but I may be mistaken.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: ThePerm on August 25, 2010, 05:02:32 PM
unless the original name was supposed to be Berto like Roberto, upon lookup i can see mop_it_up's fascination with Birdo because Birdo's Japanese name is Catherine (キャサリン, Kiyasarin). I wonder who was the very bored person who added the transgender connotation to the manual. I can just imagine being worked like a dog in the NES era early Nintendo America in the NYC days, and some disgruntled translator trying to see what they can slip by management.
also i have some speculation for why Birdo would be associated with Birds. The Yiddish word for bird is Faygele(et Deutsch Voegel), but its also has another connotation
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Mop it up on August 25, 2010, 06:03:50 PM
I wonder who was the very bored person who added the transgender connotation to the manual. I can just imagine being worked like a dog in the NES era early Nintendo America in the NYC days, and some disgruntled translator trying to see what they can slip by management.
It's there in the original Japanese manual, so the NA translators didn't change anything.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: MegaByte on August 25, 2010, 06:10:02 PM
Indeed, Birdo is still considered transgendered in Japan, even though they retconned it in the US.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Mop it up on August 25, 2010, 06:22:27 PM
Personally, I don't see it as Nintendo retconning anything. It is proper to refer to a transgendered person using the pronouns of the gender of which they present themselves, so Nintendo of America calls her "she" out of respect. Also, in recent years, Nintendo's been a bit more inconsistent. Ever since 2005, Nintendo hasn't referred to Birdo using a gender-specific pronoun, and instead always refer to her by name. The trophy in SSBBrawl calls her a "creature of indeterminate gender" and uses the pronoun "it," and the website for Mario Strikers Charged uses "he."
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Morari on August 25, 2010, 07:40:25 PM
The term "it" is very offensive. I think that Nintendo needs to stop being so insensitive to the transgendered community.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: ThePerm on August 25, 2010, 07:51:31 PM
in the Japanese manual it says "her name is Catherine, but would like to be called Cathy" in Japanese of course, according to Wikipedia.
wasn't Mario Strikers made by an American or Canadian team? Birdo is indeed one of Nintendo's most interesting characters. I'm kinda pissed I don't have Birdo anything.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 25, 2010, 07:53:42 PM
Actually, Birdo's Japanese manual profile says "He thinks he is a girl and he spits eggs from his mouth. He'd rather be called 'Cathy.'" From what I can tell, the first game to actually refer to Birdo as a female (rather than just wanting to be female) was the N64 version of Mario Tennis in 2000.
The Mario Strikers games were made by the Canadian based Next Level Games (who also made Punch-Out!!).
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Mop it up on August 25, 2010, 08:10:03 PM
Neither of those are correct. I've had the Doki Doki Panic manual translated by several people, and a more accurate translation would be this:
"Convinced that he's a female, this dude vomits eggs and such from its mouth. Will be in a good mood if called Cathy."
I can also offer a literal translation if anyone wanted it.
wasn't Mario Strikers made by an American or Canadian team?
Yes, a Canadian developer. Also, the game was released first in Europe and the website I mentioned is based in the UK, so I doubt it had influence from NOA.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 25, 2010, 08:16:59 PM
I am pretty sure you are wrong on the translation. Every translation of it I have seen has been similar to the one I quoted. I have never seen any translation mention vomiting eggs, being in a good mood, or being called a dude. I just used Microsoft Translator (not as good as a person, but still) and it gave this as the literal translation:
Guy who convinced myself female foil, egg from the mouth. Call Kathy deadlines is good.
Either way, it's clear that Birdo was considered a male for the first 12 years of its existence and it was Camelot Software who messed it up by claiming it was a female. Now Nintendo tries to avoid using gender based pronouns when talking about it.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Mop it up on August 25, 2010, 08:29:06 PM
The line you quoted is the one seen in the North American instruction manual for SMB2, except it says "Cathy" instead of "Birdetta." People just claim it's what the JPN manual says because it's close enough. I'm not surprised that Google gave you that. A lot of those are similar to the words used, but Japanese is such a complicated language that a computerized translator will be rather poor.
Here, let's break it down.
Scan of the manual (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j82/Mop_it_up/Bucket%20of%20Randomism/DDPManual.jpg)
First, here is it Romanized:
"Jibun wo mesu to omoikonde kuchi kara tamago nado wo haku yatsu. Kya shii to yobu to kigen ga ii."
Jibun ~ self mesu ~ female (animal) omoikonde ~ compound verb, meaning: to be under impression that; to be convinced that; to imagine that; to set one's heart on; to be bent on; etc. wo & to ~ necessary grammatical particles, giving the phrase the meaning "under the impression that self is female (animal)"
kuchi ~ mouth kara ~ from tamago ~ egg nado ~ and such; etc. wo ~ again, necessary grammatical particle haku ~ vomit yatsu ~ "dude"... informal term used when referring to a person (essentially, informal term of "person"). In the translator's experience/impression/observation, this is used only for males, and "dude" is actually a pretty close translation, if a little bit "euphemistic"... (I don't think "dude" is ever used in a derogatory fashion, but "yatsu" definitely can be). Highly doubt it's used in a derogatory way here.
Kya shii ~ "Cathy" or "Kathy" or "Cathie" or however you choose to spell it. yobu ~ (verb) to call (or to summon, to call out, or to invite) kigen ~ humour, temper, mood ii ~ good to & to ~ necessary grammatical particles... in this case, essentially meaning "if... then" ga ~ another particle... essentially an equivalent of "is"
So there you go. If you put those words together in that order, it makes no sense, so you can construct it however you want as long as all the key words are there.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: ThePerm on August 25, 2010, 08:35:06 PM
Nani?
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Stratos on August 25, 2010, 08:36:54 PM
That was some awesome language pwnage.
I stand in awe of your linguistic knowledge.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: ThePerm on August 25, 2010, 08:53:29 PM
my jp dictionary says haku is "to wear" or "exhale", "spit" "vomit"
"believing it is a female this person shoots eggs from the mouth, Cathy brings the comedy"
my guess
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: King of Twitch on August 25, 2010, 09:28:27 PM
..It just clicked for me.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Sundoulos on August 27, 2010, 10:30:02 AM
Anyone know where the recurring FF character name "Cid" came from? I recall there was a reason for it but I can't remember where I heard it.
I'm now wondering that myself. Google was no help.
I've never seen anything that indicated official confirmation of this, one slightly plausible theory is that Cid's name was probably inspired by the Spanish legend of "El Cid," loosely based on the life of a Castilian nobleman named Rodrigo Díaz de Viva.
The Tale of El Cid was one told by Spanish minstrels and bards called juglares. It was a well known story throughout Spanish cities and towns as it was told in town squares across the land; each bard had a different interpretation for the tale. It is also believed that there was an actual Cid de Castilla who took the kingdom of Valencia from Moorish rule through certain artifacts that were found in Valencia. Some people claim that they found his two mythical swords La Tizona and La Colada which he used to slay actual Moorish kings. cristobalcid9 says: One legend tells that El Cid was killed in a battle with the Moors, but then later was resurrected to help finish the war. This may explain Cid's constant reappearances in each game. :)
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: apdude on August 27, 2010, 12:10:22 PM
I guess it would be more convincing if those two swords were in the games as well. But that does seem to be the most probable explanation of the Cid character. Though if they were going for fictional Spanish knights I wish they went with Don Quixote since the FF stories sometimes need some comedic relief. Imagine fighting a Dragon that turns into a windmill.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: SixthAngel on August 27, 2010, 03:11:15 PM
I believe Mario was named after Miyamoto's plumber when he travelled to the U.S.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: MegaByte on August 27, 2010, 03:41:13 PM
Yes, because everybody needs a plumber while traveling... (WTF?)
He was named after Mario Segale, the landlord of NOA's early offices in Tukwila, WA.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 27, 2010, 05:25:50 PM
And specifically it was because Nintendo was actually behind on the rent for the building (this was before they released Donkey Kong and all of their arcade games had flopped in the US).
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Stratos on August 27, 2010, 07:56:04 PM
According to the Age of Empires 2 Cid campaign Cid died in a final Moor siege but he wife kept his death secret and then posed his body in full armor on his horse the last day to keep the army's morale up so they could overcome the siege. If something like that really happened it would explain the resurrection rumors.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: Mop it up on August 27, 2010, 08:17:54 PM
I've never seen anything that indicated official confirmation of this, one slightly plausible theory is that Cid's name was probably inspired by the Spanish legend of "El Cid," loosely based on the life of a Castilian nobleman named Rodrigo Díaz de Viva.
Thanks for the link. Since the swords of the legend aren't in the games, I'm inclined to think it actually isn't because of that. It may be just as simple as one of the designers liking the name of "Cid" or knowing someone with the name. I guess we will never know unless someone from the development team ever offers an explanation.
As an aside, Cid is the only character whose name I would leave as default.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: SixthAngel on August 27, 2010, 10:48:14 PM
Yes, because everybody needs a plumber while traveling... (WTF?)
He was named after Mario Segale, the landlord of NOA's early offices in Tukwila, WA.
Didn't Miyamoto meet him because he traveled to the US for NOA business purposes? When you rent offices/houses on a business trip you sometimes need to have people like a plumber, you're not on a one week vacation.
He was the landlord but I also thought he was the reason Mario became a "plumber" so I confused it a bit. I don't think he was supposed to be a plumber originally. Why is he a plumber? Is it the tubes he always goes down?
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: TJ Spyke on August 27, 2010, 11:22:05 PM
Mario was not a plumber originally (he became one in 1983's Mario Bros.). He was originally a carpenter.
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: UncleBob on August 28, 2010, 09:02:00 AM
Here's one of the best resources I've read in regards to the Mario naming story. http://technologizer.com/2010/04/25/mario/
Title: Re: Why's it called that (video game etymology)
Post by: ThePerm on August 29, 2010, 11:48:51 PM
mario became a plumber in mario bros. because of the pipes, its been that way ever since.
