Coming this fall, with the first two games being Sonic Adventure and Crazy Taxi. I know I'll be buying both of those, and I hope there will be many more. My fingers are crossed for Armada, an obscure favorite of mine.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2010, 04:21:04 PM
I'm looking forward to playing Crazy Taxi again with Trophy support and HD up-converting, as well as Skies of Arcadia if it has the content from the GCN "Legends" version. Aside from those two, I really can't think of a Dreamcast game I give a damn about.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: D_Average on June 10, 2010, 08:57:28 PM
I bought Crazy Taxi this year on GCN. For me, it didn't hold up much, but trophies would help. I'd like to see Nights come along so I finally can see what all the insane fuss is about. (http://www.nightsintodreams.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=3591)
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Morari on June 10, 2010, 09:04:37 PM
Armada was great! I never did find the edge of space. I did however end many nights with "crab finger syndrome" from those triggers. :)
I still have one of my Dreamcasts hooked up in the living room. Admittedly, it hasn't received any playtime for a good long while. It's still my favorite all-around console.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 10, 2010, 09:22:11 PM
THis sounds like a dumb question, but could the wii or its successor (wii 2) properly emulate the Dreamcast on the virtual console?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 10, 2010, 09:26:53 PM
THis sounds like a dumb question, but could the wii or its successor (wii 2) properly emulate the Dreamcast on the virtual console?
The Wii can't do it; we know absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the Wii 2, so it's not known if it could do it, but I would assume that it will be possible.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 10, 2010, 09:40:02 PM
THis sounds like a dumb question, but could the wii or its successor (wii 2) properly emulate the Dreamcast on the virtual console?
The Wii can't do it; we know absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the Wii 2, so it's not known if it could do it, but I would assume that it will be possible.
That is mainly due to memory contraints and down load speeds, right?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 10, 2010, 09:42:03 PM
THis sounds like a dumb question, but could the wii or its successor (wii 2) properly emulate the Dreamcast on the virtual console?
The Wii can't do it; we know absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the Wii 2, so it's not known if it could do it, but I would assume that it will be possible.
That is mainly due to memory contraints and down load speeds, right?
No, it's because the Wii doesn't have the processing power to emulate the Dreamcast.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2010, 09:56:33 PM
Sooooo..... does Nintendo get the console[:P]ation prize and get Saturn games instead?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 10, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
We put a man on the moon and sooner or later Mars, so do not tell me that Saturn emulation is not possible. The main reason why I want Saturn emulation is so that I do not have to pay such large prices for Saturn games.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2010, 10:40:57 PM
We put a man on the moon and sooner or later Mars, so do not tell me that Saturn emulation is not possible. The main reason why I want Saturn emulation is so that I do not have to pay such large prices for Saturn games.
Given that the Saturn was notoriously hard to program for and just as hard to emulate, I highly doubt we'll see Saturn games on the Wii. Besides, what games would you want to play, anyway? There's Nights (for some folks, I guess. If the sequel's any indication, I'm definitely not interested in the original), Panzer Dragoon/Dragoon Saga, and....and...yeah, that just about sums it up.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 10, 2010, 10:43:00 PM
We put a man on the moon and sooner or later Mars, so do not tell me that Saturn emulation is not possible. The main reason why I want Saturn emulation is so that I do not have to pay such large prices for Saturn games.
Given that the Saturn was notoriously hard to program for and just as hard to emulate, I highly doubt we'll see Saturn games on the Wii. Besides, what games would you want to play, anyway? There's Nights (for some folks, I guess. If the sequel's any indication, I'm definitely not interested in the original), Panzer Dragoon/Dragoon Saga, and....and...yeah, that just about sums it up.
Burning Rangers?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on June 10, 2010, 10:45:37 PM
We put a man on the moon and sooner or later Mars, so do not tell me that Saturn emulation is not possible. The main reason why I want Saturn emulation is so that I do not have to pay such large prices for Saturn games.
Given that the Saturn was notoriously hard to program for and just as hard to emulate, I highly doubt we'll see Saturn games on the Wii. Besides, what games would you want to play, anyway? There's Nights (for some folks, I guess. If the sequel's any indication, I'm definitely not interested in the original), Panzer Dragoon/Dragoon Saga, and....and...yeah, that just about sums it up.
Burning Rangers?
Was that a Saturn game? I always remember that one as an Arcade machine I'd always see walking through Innoventions at EPCOT.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2010, 10:49:17 PM
Does anyone else notice that everytime my post gets quoted another ":" shows up after the smiley face?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Shaymin on June 11, 2010, 12:19:28 AM
The Crazy Taxi port will hopefully not be based on the PS2/Gamecube versions, but I suspect it will. Which means no bringing guys to the Original Levis Store, the newer (not as good) voicework... and NO OFFSPRING. Criminal.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Mop it up on June 11, 2010, 12:46:55 AM
THis sounds like a dumb question, but could the wii or its successor (wii 2) properly emulate the Dreamcast on the virtual console?
The Wii can't do it; we know absolutely nothing about the capabilities of the Wii 2, so it's not known if it could do it, but I would assume that it will be possible.
That is mainly due to memory contraints and down load speeds, right?
No, it's because the Wii doesn't have the processing power to emulate the Dreamcast.
Wii is weaker than Dreamcast?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 11, 2010, 12:51:54 AM
A system need significantly more power than the system it's trying to emulate.
The PS3 has problems with the PS2 and the Xbox360 has issues with the Xbox.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 11, 2010, 01:35:46 AM
Sonic Adventure actually leaked about two months ago...I wonder why they're waiting until the Fall to release it.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 11, 2010, 01:48:28 AM
It actually depends on the type of hardware being emulated. Surely the Wii does have the horsepower to emulate the Dreamcast, especially if Sega is the one making the emulator.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 11, 2010, 02:25:42 AM
It actually depends on the type of hardware being emulated. Surely the Wii does have the horsepower to emulate the Dreamcast, especially if Sega is the one making the emulator.
Fun fact, the Sega Genesis emulator on the Wii was not done by Sega. It was done by M2.
Sonic Adventure with HD up-scaling and GLITCHES FIXED plz thk u.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on June 11, 2010, 12:00:40 PM
I was looking over 1up's Top 16 most wanted Dreamcast games on the download services, and I'd forgotten that Grandia II was a Dreamcast game. I already own the PC version, but that version's kind of janky and I'd very much prefer replaying that game in bed via my PS3 and DS3 controller rather than hunched over my laptop and keyboard.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 11, 2010, 12:14:32 PM
I am betting my last dollar that the wii2HD will be able to properly emulate atleast the Dreamcast. Mainly because Nintendo does not want its competitors to have something they do not have and SEGA being partnered with Nintendo solidifies that possibility to happen.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on June 11, 2010, 12:16:15 PM
I am betting my last dollar that the wii2HD will be able to properly emulate atleast the Dreamcast. Mainly because Nintendo does not want its competitors to have something they do not have and SEGA being partnered with Nintendo solidifies that possibility to happen.
I don't think Nintendo cares about its competitors "having something they do not have", or else the Wii wouldn't be getting its ass kicked in terms of features and 3rd party support. Nintendo will do with its next console what Nintendo always does: what's best for Nintendo, to hell with everyone else.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Caterkiller on June 11, 2010, 12:20:20 PM
I am betting my last dollar that the wii2HD will be able to properly emulate atleast the Dreamcast. Mainly because Nintendo does not want its competitors to have something they do not have and SEGA being partnered with Nintendo solidifies that possibility to happen.
Are you kidding? Nintendo is built on not having what the competitors have.
Well I gotta say I am jealous over this. I want that Ecco the dolphin game so bad.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 11, 2010, 12:37:54 PM
For some reason I find software emulation fascinating. I just like the idea of having a bunch of different console and its games on one console. Especially games of yester year, or the golden oldies. ;D
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 11, 2010, 03:31:46 PM
POWER STONE????
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Morari on June 11, 2010, 06:06:06 PM
Power Stone 2 was almost up there with Marvel vs. Capcom 2 in terms of how often everyone gathered to play. At least with Power Stone everyone could play at the same time, instead of having the loser passing the controller on after a match.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: SixthAngel on June 12, 2010, 03:02:29 AM
Given that the Saturn was notoriously hard to program for and just as hard to emulate, I highly doubt we'll see Saturn games on the Wii. Besides, what games would you want to play, anyway? There's Nights (for some folks, I guess. If the sequel's any indication, I'm definitely not interested in the original), Panzer Dragoon/Dragoon Saga, and....and...yeah, that just about sums it up.
I've been playing Sega Saturn games for the last month so yes it does have good games to play. You already named 4. No list wars here but I'll name two more amazing games Guardian Heroes and Shining force 3.
The best saturn emulators for the PC are still incomplete so it is incredibly difficult to emulate and they require a pretty fast computer.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 12, 2010, 11:42:52 AM
The Saturn is "so hard" to emulate because it had 2 CPUs and no 3D acceleration.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 13, 2010, 01:54:21 PM
I am betting my last dollar that the wii2HD will be able to properly emulate atleast the Dreamcast. Mainly because Nintendo does not want its competitors to have something they do not have and SEGA being partnered with Nintendo solidifies that possibility to happen.
Yeah, because Dreamcast emulation is the feature that will make or break a system. /sarcasm
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Morari on June 13, 2010, 06:50:17 PM
Dreamcast emulation would sure be a lot more entertaining than half the other systems that are already supported by the Wii.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 16, 2010, 01:38:44 AM
I'm telling you, the Wii 1 could have an awesome Dreamcast emulator written for it. Anyone ever see Bleem! for Dreamcast? If some non-affiliated developers can get a full-speed (albeit with limited compatibility) PlayStation emulator on the Dreamcast, then surely Sega could easily develop a full-speed Dreamcast emulator for the Wii. Hell, Daedalus 64 runs several games perfectly on the PSP.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 16, 2010, 01:46:57 AM
It might be possible, but Bleem for Dreamcast was only able to be released as separate versions for individual games. Such an emulator for Wii would need to be extensively tweaked for each game, and I'm not sure if that would be worth it. Maybe it could be used to bring over Shenmue 1 & 2 before Sega releases Shenmue 3 (it's gonna happen, dammit!). Hell, even an emulated Shenmue looks better than half the games on the Wii.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 16, 2010, 04:57:38 AM
I'm telling you, the Wii 1 could have an awesome Dreamcast emulator written for it. Anyone ever see Bleem! for Dreamcast? If some non-affiliated developers can get a full-speed (albeit with limited compatibility) PlayStation emulator on the Dreamcast, then surely Sega could easily develop a full-speed Dreamcast emulator for the Wii. Hell, Daedalus 64 runs several games perfectly on the PSP.
I remember that, and how pissed off Sony was about it...
But I'm not sure it would really work, though, because somehow I'm thinking the leap from the PS1 to the Dreamcast is greater than the leap from the Dreamcast to the Wii. That said, the Wii is a more powerful piece of hardware than the Dreamcast for sure, but is it powerful enough? From what I understand about emulation, the host system needs to be a great deal more powerful than the system it is emulating. A system that's on par with, or only slightly more powerful than its client system probably won't cut it. The GC was more powerful than the DC, and we know the Wii is more powerful even than that, but is it enough?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 17, 2010, 12:10:53 AM
It depends on the type of hardware doing the emulated, the type of hardware being emulated, the skill of the coder, availability of documentation, etc. Lets not forget that the Dreamcast and the Wii both use PowerPC processors, which would be a huge benefit.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 19, 2010, 04:57:45 PM
I do not know that much about emulation, but the wii could possibly emulate the Dreamcast with no problems, but the biggest obstacle is memory. The disc based games carry much more memory and would take up a lot of space on the SD. I imagine nothing less than an 8GB or 16 SD card could accomadate the DReamcast games. That is why the PS3 and 360 is getting the Dreamcast because of the large amount of storage memory at their disposal.
Hypothetically, let's assume that the wii 2 does have the ability to emulate the dreamcast. I know the the Saturn is hard to emulate, but could SEGA repurpose the older Saturn and then emulate them as dreamcast games?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 19, 2010, 05:08:10 PM
That wouldn't work. The Saturn and Dreamcast used very different hardware.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 19, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
I do not know that much about emulation, but the wii could possibly emulate the Dreamcast with no problems, but the biggest obstacle is memory. The disc based games carry much more memory and would take up a lot of space on the SD. I imagine nothing less than an 8GB or 16 SD card could accomadate the DReamcast games. That is why the PS3 and 360 is getting the Dreamcast because of the large amount of storage memory at their disposal.
Hypothetically, let's assume that the wii 2 does have the ability to emulate the dreamcast. I know the the Saturn is hard to emulate, but could SEGA repurpose the older Saturn and then emulate them as dreamcast games?
No offense, but you have no clue what you're talking about (as usual). The Dreamcast games ran on CD-Roms, which have a maximum capacity of 700MB. While that is far more than, say, an N64 game, its still perfectly manageable on even a 1 or 2 GB SD card. And considering many games probably didn't even use all that space, and that much of that space was taken up by things like FMV which can be taken out or compressed, the total size could be made much smaller.
And as Insanolord said, the Saturn and Dreamcast were completely different pieces of hardware. Sega threw reverse compatibility completely out the window (come to think of it, they neglected reverse compatibility with every system they ever made), which was one of the main reasons Sega was forced out of the hardware business, but that's another story...
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 19, 2010, 06:42:15 PM
I do not know that much about emulation, but the wii could possibly emulate the Dreamcast with no problems, but the biggest obstacle is memory. The disc based games carry much more memory and would take up a lot of space on the SD. I imagine nothing less than an 8GB or 16 SD card could accomadate the DReamcast games. That is why the PS3 and 360 is getting the Dreamcast because of the large amount of storage memory at their disposal.
Hypothetically, let's assume that the wii 2 does have the ability to emulate the dreamcast. I know the the Saturn is hard to emulate, but could SEGA repurpose the older Saturn and then emulate them as dreamcast games?
No offense, but you have no clue what you're talking about (as usual). The Dreamcast games ran on CD-Roms, which have a maximum capacity of 700MB. While that is far more than, say, an N64 game, its still perfectly manageable on even a 1 or 2 GB SD card. And considering many games probably didn't even use all that space, and that much of that space was taken up by things like FMV which can be taken out or compressed, the total size could be made much smaller.
Let me just say that I resent that. Second, if the virtual console were loaded up with a bunch of 700 MB games eventually it would get filled up. Two 700 MB games puts the data over one gigabyte. Factor in that there would be atleast ten to twelve Dreamcast games on the VC service. There is just no way for these games to be stored without a lot of memory.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on June 19, 2010, 07:00:58 PM
I do not know that much about emulation, but the wii could possibly emulate the Dreamcast with no problems, but the biggest obstacle is memory. The disc based games carry much more memory and would take up a lot of space on the SD. I imagine nothing less than an 8GB or 16 SD card could accomadate the DReamcast games. That is why the PS3 and 360 is getting the Dreamcast because of the large amount of storage memory at their disposal.
Hypothetically, let's assume that the wii 2 does have the ability to emulate the dreamcast. I know the the Saturn is hard to emulate, but could SEGA repurpose the older Saturn and then emulate them as dreamcast games?
No offense, but you have no clue what you're talking about (as usual). The Dreamcast games ran on CD-Roms, which have a maximum capacity of 700MB. While that is far more than, say, an N64 game, its still perfectly manageable on even a 1 or 2 GB SD card. And considering many games probably didn't even use all that space, and that much of that space was taken up by things like FMV which can be taken out or compressed, the total size could be made much smaller.
And as Insanolord said, the Saturn and Dreamcast were completely different pieces of hardware. Sega threw reverse compatibility completely out the window (come to think of it, they neglected reverse compatibility with every system they ever made), which was one of the main reasons Sega was forced out of the hardware business, but that's another story...
Actually, Dreamcast games ran on GD-Roms (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD-ROM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD-ROM)), which have a maximum capacity of 1.2 GB (significantly larger than the size of a CD-Rom). What was that about you having "more of a clue" about the specs than him? :P: :
That said, I think that if we managed to get Turbo Grafix games on the VC, which used disc-based media, they could probably release Dreamcast games on the service. Space is a serious consideration, though, without a high-capacity SD card.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: ThePerm on June 19, 2010, 07:15:55 PM
yeah they were GD roms, although you could compress and port games to 700 mb cd-roms if you were pirating thief. You would suffer fmv and audio quality loss, but you could still play the game at 70% the data size. Lossless Real time decompression wasn't as possible back then, so there would be huge uncompressed videos eating CD space. The Wii could emulate Dreamcast, but theres no where to store the games on your system....well that is unless they make wiiware remakes where theres no fmvs and everything is ran in real time. Only 3 out of 10 games would have fmv quality you couldn't replicate in real time on the Wii. If thats not possible theres real time decompression, and or real time decompression + lowered video quality standards. It would just be easier to release a port, but few games need to be ported because they were already ported to Gamecube. Sega needs to get their **** together and release Shenmue games on Wii, I think as far as style of game Wii fans would appreciate it the most.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 19, 2010, 07:28:24 PM
come to think of it, they neglected reverse compatibility with every system they ever made)
Not quite true, they did sell an adapter for the Genesis that let you play Master System games on the system. It doesn't matter that the Master System sold like **** and that the adapter was very expensive.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 19, 2010, 08:38:58 PM
come to think of it, they neglected reverse compatibility with every system they ever made)
Not quite true, they did sell an adapter for the Genesis that let you play Master System games on the system. It doesn't matter that the Master System sold like **** and that the adapter was very expensive.
So it seems that Chozo Ghost is the one who does not know he is talking about. :cool;
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 20, 2010, 05:24:10 AM
come to think of it, they neglected reverse compatibility with every system they ever made)
I was wrong, but that doesn't make you better than me, because you were wrong to. But since the GD-ROM format is based on CD-ROM I wasn't very far from the mark. Not quite true, they did sell an adapter for the Genesis that let you play Master System games on the system. It doesn't matter that the Master System sold like **** and that the adapter was very expensive.
So it seems that Chozo Ghost is the one who does not know he is talking about. :cool;
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 12:01:51 PM
@ Chozo Ghost
What I originally stated was that the Dreamcast games would take up large amounts of space even for an SD card because they are disc based games. I originally figured that the dreamcast games were about 1 GB a piece and I was fairly close to the truth with the GD-rom.
This might be the reason why Nintendo did not allow Dreamcast emulation on the wii because it would consume large amounts of memory even with the SD card channel. One might wonder "why Can't I buy a higher capacity card?" You would need atleast an 8 GB SD card and 32 GB SD card at the most. Take it from a 16 GB is about fifty dollars new at wal-mart.
Dreamcast emulation on the wii will either come fourth with the wii 2 in a few years when flash memory is even cheaper, or it might happen with the current wii system, but I do not see this happening with out higher capacity SD cards getting cheaper or an external hard drive support for the wii.
On a side note, if you have a problem with me or the way I write on this forum take it up with the administrators and let them inform me on how to write and report properly on this forum. Piece. :cool;
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: ThePerm on June 20, 2010, 05:08:51 PM
also to note, that even with a higher capacity disk size..some Dreamcast games still aren't very huge file sized, same with Saturn games
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 06:12:59 PM
I would wager that both Saturn and Dreamcast games are no less than 500 MB each. Although they could compress the files FMV and audio, but the whole point of the virtual console service is to relive the older games in authenticity. As a consumer I am becoming becoming very comfortable with DLC and having all my games in digital form as long as the companis I buy from take care of me when my DLC is lost or damaged.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 20, 2010, 06:17:29 PM
You would lose that wager. There are plenty of games on both systems, especially the Saturn, that are less than that.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 07:00:51 PM
What is the toal file size limit on the wii imposed by Nintendo?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Mop it up on June 20, 2010, 07:11:18 PM
What is the toal file size limit on the wii imposed by Nintendo?
40 MB. Plus, games can't be played directly from an SD card, so don't expect that limit to ever change.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: ThePerm on June 20, 2010, 07:15:15 PM
nights is 40mb
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Mop it up on June 20, 2010, 07:17:01 PM
Even so, as far as I'm aware every VC game contains the emulation data within the file, so on VC emulation, it would still be more than 40MB.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: stevey on June 20, 2010, 07:22:56 PM
Disk size is the last reason why DC games wont ever be on the Wii. The Wii simply not powerful enough to easily emulated the DC hardware at full speed even if you/Nintendo attached a terabyte Hard drive to it. The PS3 couldn't emulate the similarly powered PS2 that well with it's better hardware...
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 08:01:51 PM
What is the toal file size limit on the wii imposed by Nintendo?
40 MB. Plus, games can't be played directly from an SD card, so don't expect that limit to ever change.
I was always under the impression that since the SD card channel update the VC and wiiware files were tethered to the wii's internal memory to prevent piracy, but the SD card itself bared the brunt of the file data if chose to use the SD channel.
I first bought my wii around the time that the 4.0 update occured and so I am not all that experienced with the fridge cleaning conceprt that all of you must have experienced before the update.
Could someone explain the concept of the wii's internal memory to me in both regards to VC, wiiware and the SD card?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on June 20, 2010, 08:04:15 PM
What is the toal file size limit on the wii imposed by Nintendo?
40 MB on WiiWare. On the recent Tales of Monkey Island Season set Commentary Tracks, one of the commentators mentioned that they named Club 41 in the game after the 41st Megabyte they couldn't use when they did the WiiWare version of those titles. I don't know what the limit is on VC, though I can't imagine there is a major one if Nintendo has added that console to the VC library.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 20, 2010, 08:10:57 PM
There may not be a limit for VC games like there is for WiiWare, but there is a practical limit. The Wii has 512 MB of internal memory, and from what I understand only half of that is available to users. You're not able to truly play games off the SD card; the SD channel simply makes copying things to the system memory quick and easy. That means any game using it would have to fit in the internal memory of the system, 256 MB, and it would have to be significantly less than that to account for game saves and the like.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 08:19:31 PM
There may not be a limit for VC games like there is for WiiWare, but there is a practical limit. The Wii has 512 MB of internal memory, and from what I understand only half of that is available to users. You're not able to truly play games off the SD card; the SD channel simply makes copying things to the system memory quick and easy. That means any game using it would have to fit in the internal memory of the system, 256 MB, and it would have to be significantly less than that to account for game saves and the like.
How can you explain the fact that I can go into my room and play Donky Kong Country right off of my SD card? Unless the SD card takes on the bulk of the files memory for the wii and the wii itself is playing the game while not being contrained by memory. If so, this would prove my own theory about the situation.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: stevey on June 20, 2010, 08:21:02 PM
What is the toal file size limit on the wii imposed by Nintendo?
40 MB. Plus, games can't be played directly from an SD card, so don't expect that limit to ever change.
I was always under the impression that since the SD card channel update the VC and wiiware files were tethered to the wii's internal memory to prevent piracy, but the SD card itself bared the brunt of the file data if chose to use the SD channel.
I first bought my wii around the time that the 4.0 update occured and so I am not all that experienced with the fridge cleaning conceprt that all of you must have experienced before the update.
Could someone explain the concept of the wii's internal memory to me in both regards to VC, wiiware and the SD card?
It's nothing piracy related, Nintendo doesn't know how to intelligently design a system. All the VC and WiiWare games assumed that they are in the Wii internal memory and look there for their files in game. Nintendo could have done 3 things to fix it: Patch all game that have been released to not assume they're on the internal memory, try to trick it so they don't know the difference, fake it and have every game be fully copied to the internal memory (in a hidden swap file) with an SD channel. Nintendo picked to fake it for 4.0 update...
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Mop it up on June 20, 2010, 08:28:30 PM
I was always under the impression that since the SD card channel update the VC and wiiware files were tethered to the wii's internal memory to prevent piracy, but the SD card itself bared the brunt of the file data if chose to use the SD channel.
When you load a game from the SD card channel, the entire game is copied to the Wii internal memory. Once you are finished playing, the game is deleted from memory. If there isn't enough space on the internal memory, games can't be played from the SD card.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 20, 2010, 08:29:19 PM
There may not be a limit for VC games like there is for WiiWare, but there is a practical limit. The Wii has 512 MB of internal memory, and from what I understand only half of that is available to users. You're not able to truly play games off the SD card; the SD channel simply makes copying things to the system memory quick and easy. That means any game using it would have to fit in the internal memory of the system, 256 MB, and it would have to be significantly less than that to account for game saves and the like.
How can you explain the fact that I can go into my room and play Donky Kong Country right off of my SD card? Unless the SD card takes on the bulk of the files memory for the wii and the wii itself is playing the game while not being contrained by memory. If so, this would prove my own theory about the situation.
When you select a game on the SD card channel it quickly copies the game to the internal memory in the background and then plays it from there. Like stevey said, that's how Nintendo got around the limitations of the system they put in place.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 08:32:01 PM
What is the toal file size limit on the wii imposed by Nintendo?
40 MB. Plus, games can't be played directly from an SD card, so don't expect that limit to ever change.
I was always under the impression that since the SD card channel update the VC and wiiware files were tethered to the wii's internal memory to prevent piracy, but the SD card itself bared the brunt of the file data if chose to use the SD channel.
I first bought my wii around the time that the 4.0 update occured and so I am not all that experienced with the fridge cleaning conceprt that all of you must have experienced before the update.
Could someone explain the concept of the wii's internal memory to me in both regards to VC, wiiware and the SD card?
It's nothing piracy related, Nintendo doesn't know how to intelligently design a system. All the VC and WiiWare games assumed that they are in the Wii internal memory and look there for their files in game. Nintendo could have done 3 things to fix it: Patch all game that have been released to not assume they're on the internal memory, try to trick it so they don't know the difference, fake it and have every game be fully copied to the internal memory (in a hidden swap file) with an SD channel. Nintendo picked to fake it for 4.0 update...
Nintendo does not want you to be able to copy the VC titles to another SD card and then they lose money, so it is about piracy in some sense. Why they would give such a miniscule amount of internal memory baffles my mind. Yes, flash memory is expensive, but they should have know that the DLC files were going to grow faster than the memory could accomodate it.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Mop it up on June 20, 2010, 08:34:44 PM
Flash memory is not expensive. Neither are RAM chips. Nintendo is just excessively cheap.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 08:37:36 PM
I was always under the impression that since the SD card channel update the VC and wiiware files were tethered to the wii's internal memory to prevent piracy, but the SD card itself bared the brunt of the file data if chose to use the SD channel.
When you load a game from the SD card channel, the entire game is copied to the Wii internal memory. Once you are finished playing, the game is deleted from memory. If there isn't enough space on the internal memory, games can't be played from the SD card.
I have about 1500 blocks left on my wii's internal memory which I use for channels. I have about thirty VC titles on my SD card. So you are saying that if those 1500 blocks went away I would not be able to use those VC titles? Damn, that is a real kick in the ass.
No wonder Dreamcast games could never function on the wii. Even if the wii's processors could handle the emulation, the wii's internal memory would be eaten up or very nearly consumed that is.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 20, 2010, 08:39:45 PM
That $15 card holds as much as a dual layer DVD. And that's not even the best deal you can find.
I have seen 8 GB SD cards around for like $30. 16 GB for about $50 and 32 GB SD cards for $60 to 70. This was at wal-mart of all places. Flash Memory is getting cheaper though.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 21, 2010, 01:21:26 AM
Nintendo should expand the 512mb of internal storage of the Wii. Really, there is no reason for them not to and there are a lot of reasons why they should. 1gb of flash memory is at the bottom of the totem pole of what's available right now, yet even that is double what is in the Wii. But really, 2gb or 4gb would be even better.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 21, 2010, 01:33:15 AM
Disk size is the last reason why DC games wont ever be on the Wii. The Wii simply not powerful enough to easily emulated the DC hardware at full speed even if you/Nintendo attached a terabyte Hard drive to it. The PS3 couldn't emulate the similarly powered PS2 that well with it's better hardware...
Wrong. There is no generic software PS2 emulator for the PS3 for the same reason that Microsoft stopped working on BC updates for the Xbox 360 - they would rather sell you the game again instead. I'm telling you it's just a matter of will. The GameCube N64 emulator could run a bunch of games - some of them insanely faster than they were supposed to run. Sega could *easily* get a fully fledged Dreamcast emulator on the Wii (or any current-gen console). The only limitation is file size, and even that could potentially be a non-issue if the games were broken into segments that didn't all need to be loaded at once. Just because a game is 1.2GB (hardly any Dreamcast games used the full disc) doesn't mean you have to load the entire game at once. The Ocarina of Time/Master Quest/Major'as Mask are each 32MB alone, the GameCube has 43MB total RAM - 16MB for DVD buffer/audio, 3MB for texture/framebuffer and 24MB for "main RAM" - yet the GameCube could load the game and the emulator and play them perfectly. I know we're talking about storage space and not memory for the main part, but it's basically the same idea, only more relevant. BTW, the Wii has 88MB *MEMORY* - 512MB flash memory is not the actually "memory" - it's disk space.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 21, 2010, 02:09:23 AM
I agree, Brandogg. PS2 emulation on the PS3 is probably done for good now. Of course, Sony does want to resell you their old games all over again with remakes/ports to the PS3. So does MS. Then again, Nintendo does also, because that's the logic behind their "new play control" line of games including Pikmin and so forth. But even with that said, Nintendo is the only company whose system maintains proper backwards compatibility this generation, and for that they should be commended.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 21, 2010, 12:46:43 PM
Hypothetically if the were to have VC Dreamcast service tomorrow what kind of games would you want on the service? Here is a list of what I would want on the service:
Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Skies of Arcadia Power Stone Power Stone 2 Tech Romancer Soul Calibur Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future Starlancer Crazy Taxi Shenmue Bangai-O Marvel vs. Capcom 2 Grandia 2 Virtua Tennis Jet Grind Radio
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on June 21, 2010, 12:50:08 PM
Hypothetically if the were to have VC Dreamcast service tomorrow what kind of games would you want on the service? Here is a list of what I would want on the service:
Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Skies of Arcadia Power Stone Power Stone 2 Tech Romancer Soul Calibur Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future Starlancer Crazy Taxi Shenmue Bangai-O Marvel vs. Capcom 2 Grandia 2 Virtua Tennis Jet Grind Radio
Skies of Arcadia Legends (the GameCube version with the added content and lowered random encounter rate) Grandia 2
I've heard what they've done to the Crazy Taxi soundtrack for the PSN/XBLA version, and I no longer want it.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on June 22, 2010, 04:58:14 PM
Perhaps SEGA and Nintendo could offer select SEGA CD games as wiiware enhance ments. The SEGA CD did poorly, but there is no reason that some of the good games on the system could have a second chance on the wii. Here is a list of SEGA CD games that shouldbe on the wii:
Popful Mail Slipheed Vay Eternal Champions Android Assualt Final Fight CD Lunar: The Silver Star Shining Force CD Sonic CD Snatcher(My personal favorite) Spider-Man vs Kingpin
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Mop it up on June 22, 2010, 07:16:41 PM
Don't you already have a thread of games you'd like to come to VC that will never happen? Perhaps you should stick to posting in that.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Morari on June 22, 2010, 07:54:44 PM
Hypothetically if the were to have VC Dreamcast service tomorrow what kind of games would you want on the service? Here is a list of what I would want on the service:
Sonic Adventure Sonic Adventure 2 Skies of Arcadia Power Stone Power Stone 2 Tech Romancer Soul Calibur Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future Starlancer Crazy Taxi Shenmue Bangai-O Marvel vs. Capcom 2 Grandia 2 Virtua Tennis Jet Grind Radio
Where is Shenmue 2 and Seaman?!
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 23, 2010, 08:29:03 AM
Seaman would be great on the 3DS.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on September 24, 2010, 01:42:50 PM
Radiant SilverGun was just announced for Xbox Live as an exclusive(BS!), so does this mean that Saturn emulation is possible, or bypassed?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 24, 2010, 04:12:08 PM
No one ever said Saturn emulation wasn't possible, just that it was difficult.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on September 24, 2010, 08:37:42 PM
No one ever said Saturn emulation wasn't possible, just that it was difficult.
If they can put Radiant Silvergun on XBLA the they could have a virtual console fir Saturn on the wii 2, right? They could put all the popular Saturn titles on XBLA?
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 24, 2010, 09:08:14 PM
Absolutely, and I would love to have it happen since i've never even seen a Saturn in person (yet alone played any Saturn games). I would especially like to play some of the more rare games that tend to go for several hundred dollars on sites like eBay.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 24, 2010, 10:42:06 PM
If you have a PS3 with firmware 3.41 (or earlier)...there's a Dreamcast emulator being developed. It already plays games, slowly, but it's being ported by the actual coder of NullDC. He's going to eventually port it to Xbox 360 as well (I'm going to donate a JTAG'ed Xbox 360 to him). Oh, and there's a Saturn emulator out too.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 24, 2010, 10:48:04 PM
If you have a PS3 with firmware 3.41 (or earlier)...there's a Dreamcast emulator being developed. It already plays games, slowly, but it's being ported by the actual coder of NullDC. He's going to eventually port it to Xbox 360 as well (I'm going to donate a JTAG'ed Xbox 360 to him). Oh, and there's a Saturn emulator out too.
I'll be able to do that on a newer firmware at some point, right? I'm past that now, and I'll upgrade again to get discless Netflix, but I'd like to play around with that.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: broodwars on September 24, 2010, 10:53:24 PM
If you have a PS3 with firmware 3.41 (or earlier)...there's a Dreamcast emulator being developed. It already plays games, slowly, but it's being ported by the actual coder of NullDC. He's going to eventually port it to Xbox 360 as well (I'm going to donate a JTAG'ed Xbox 360 to him). Oh, and there's a Saturn emulator out too.
I'll be able to do that on a newer firmware at some point, right? I'm past that now, and I'll upgrade again to get discless Netflix, but I'd like to play around with that.
Probably not. If I'm not mistaken, the firmware immediately after the one he listed was the one that removed Linux support, which is probably the only way to install the emulator software and games.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 24, 2010, 11:14:24 PM
I figured you could do it with the jailbreak method I've been hearing about so much lately.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: TJ Spyke on September 24, 2010, 11:19:58 PM
I think the latest firmware update (3.5) got rid of that, I don't know if they got a new workaround. Either way, I think most people want a legal way to play Saturn games.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 24, 2010, 11:25:47 PM
If it's anything like the Wii, they'll find a way around it soon.
I'm perfectly willing to pay money for legal versions of the games, but it's fun to play around with the emulators to see what they can do in the meantime.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: Kytim89 on September 24, 2010, 11:52:17 PM
Radiant Silvergun is going to be ported to XBLA in HD and it will be exclusive to the 360 for a period of time. This exclusivity will not last forever, however, and it will eventually make it to the PSN. The wii's internal storage is still too small for such games and the fact that it can not handle HD is another handicap preventing it from coming over to virtual console.
I absolutely love the virtual console, but I have the feeling that we will have to wait for the wii 2 before we get the Dreamcast and Saturn on virtual console. This RSG game for XBLA does give me hope of seeing something done with the Saturn.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: KDR_11k on September 25, 2010, 02:08:18 AM
Meh, if the previous Dreamcast games are anything to go by Sega considers it a HD port if it renders in 1280x720, no matter how ugly the geometry itself is.
Title: Re: Dreamcast games on XBLA and PSN!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 25, 2010, 10:17:34 AM
3.21 was the update that killed Linux. 3.42 is what killed the JailBreak (for now, though probably forever), and the JailBreak has absolutely nothing to do with Linux. You just flash a certain type of USB board (there are many versions that work, you can install it on an iPhone, Android phones, an Xbox 360 USB SPI flasher, and now, even the PS3 DualShock controller will be able to do it), turn off the system (or unplug if it's a slim), plug in the USB board you're using, turn on the power switch (or plug it in), then hit power then eject quickly, and you're in. The JailBreak itself doesn't make any permanent changes to the system. I have SNES9X installed on my PS3, it's amazing how quickly it came out, though SNES360 is much better for now. Another cool thing you can do is edit PARAM.SFO on just about any PS3 game (has to be installed to the HDD though), and you can allow remote play on *any* game. Getting off subject though...
