Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: TJ Spyke on March 29, 2010, 11:12:20 AM
Title: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 29, 2010, 11:12:20 AM
Sony has announced that one of the changes made in the April firmware update (which will be required to access the PlayStation Network, play certain games, etc.), is that they are removing the "Install other OS" option. This is the feature that let people install Linux and similar systems, which also let people develop homebrew games. They claim it will improve the system for consumers, which is obvious bull. The only people who benefit from removing it (which is what they touted as one of the major features of the system at launch and why it was supposedly wortth $500/$600) is Sony, since this feature is what allowed people to pirate games and is how that guy hacked the PS3 recently. I personally have never installed another OS, but there was no reason to actually remove it (at least when they removed BC they could say it saved them money, even if it was only like $1 per system).
Has anybody here actually installed another OS on their PS3? The reports I am reading sounds like it will disable them eith the update (rather than just stopping you from installing again), but I can't verify that.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: KDR_11k on March 29, 2010, 12:06:47 PM
Many people probably included that in their purchase rationale back in the day so now they'll feel cheated.
PS3: It only does what we want it to!
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 29, 2010, 12:56:53 PM
Promise the world, then take it away. I'm sure there's more they can remove after this as well.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: broodwars on March 29, 2010, 01:03:21 PM
I wonder if this is an overreaction to the PS3 allegedly being hacked, so now they're trying to lock down any features that could be used to exploit the system now that it's in the open? Otherwise, I really don't see what Sony gets out of this besides unnecessarily pissing .01% of their audience off.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 29, 2010, 01:21:02 PM
This is kind of a secondary question, but if I'm not mistaken, did Sony try to sell the PS3 as a computer at launch (possibly getting a better tax status)? If they were successful with that, wouldn't this OS removal renege on this?
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 29, 2010, 01:57:09 PM
Is there really any need for them to do this? They've already stripped out the "Install Other OS" feature from the Slim model. They don't make the older models anymore, and those didn't sell all that much on account of being $600 so its not like the ability to install Linux is widespread or anything. So why do they want to stomp it out of the limited number of systems that still can?
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 29, 2010, 02:51:17 PM
This is kind of a secondary question, but if I'm not mistaken, did Sony try to sell the PS3 as a computer at launch (possibly getting a better tax status)? If they were successful with that, wouldn't this OS removal renege on this?
Sony looked at Wii and figured out that "game systems" sell better.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 29, 2010, 03:20:21 PM
Some companies did use the Linux on PS3 to treat it as a supercomputer. I was reading info on this at another site and they mentioned one guy talked about how this feature let him make the equivalent of a $50,000 supercomputer for about $5,000.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 29, 2010, 09:23:56 PM
I'm guessing that guy probably doesn't need to be able to log in to PSN or play newer games.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Stogi on March 29, 2010, 10:22:47 PM
Linux SUCKED on PS3 anyways. It didn't have enough RAM access to run ****. SO I don't really give a ****.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 29, 2010, 11:05:25 PM
But it will soon. Geohot is going to "look into" making CFW for the PS3 now, since Sony is making such a pointless move.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: D_Average on March 29, 2010, 11:35:43 PM
Some companies did use the Linux on PS3 to treat it as a supercomputer. I was reading info on this at another site and they mentioned one guy talked about how this feature let him make the equivalent of a $50,000 supercomputer for about $5,000.
Thats true. I heard of a company that had 100 or so networked up for that very reason.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: stevey on March 30, 2010, 12:03:48 AM
I smell this blowing up in sony's face, by either a lawsuit or hackers tearing the PS3 a new one.
Also this marks the end of using the PS3 as a cheap Wii dev kit :'(
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Adrock on March 30, 2010, 12:29:06 AM
This was only a matter of time seeing as the Slim model did away with Linux support. I find it ironic that Nintendo gets slack for not including X and Y on the Wii, but Sony spent the last 3 years taking stuff away from PS3. I remember when PS3 was first unveiled and it was supposed to have something like 19 USB ports and 10 SD card slots and Kaz Hirai was on his "PS3 is a computer, motherf*ckers" kick. Those were the days... at least it had backwards compatibility...
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: ShyGuy on March 30, 2010, 12:37:46 AM
Linux dumped the PS3 and traded up.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Guitar Smasher on March 30, 2010, 02:00:07 AM
This was only a matter of time seeing as the Slim model did away with Linux support. I find it ironic that Nintendo gets slack for not including X and Y on the Wii, but Sony spent the last 3 years taking stuff away from PS3. I remember when PS3 was first unveiled and it was supposed to have something like 19 USB ports and 10 SD card slots and Kaz Hirai was on his "PS3 is a computer, motherf*ckers" kick. Those were the days... at least it had backwards compatibility...
PS3: It only did everything...
/unoriginal joke
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 30, 2010, 12:55:13 PM
Some companies did use the Linux on PS3 to treat it as a supercomputer. I was reading info on this at another site and they mentioned one guy talked about how this feature let him make the equivalent of a $50,000 supercomputer for about $5,000.
Which will be fine until his 10 year old kid installs the latest patch and bricks the whole thing.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on March 30, 2010, 01:02:14 PM
I smell this blowing up in sony's face, by either a lawsuit or hackers tearing the PS3 a new one.
I can see that happening. Even though Sony stripped it out of the Slim model it was still present in the old models, but now that they're removing it from the old models as well I can see hackers stepping up their efforts to break the encryptions and crap so they can get Linux any which way you can.
Someone who wants to get into a building will always use a door that's open instead of the locked door right next to it. Its easier, and either way it gets you into the building so why try to pick the lock or break the door down when an open door is nearby? But now that both doors are closed and locked the PS3 will probably have more people attacking its locked doors with crowbars, sledgehammers, whatever.
So the bottom line is Sony was better off leaving that Linux ability alone, but now that they've removed it they are going to piss off the hacking crowd and they are going to see them step up their efforts to hack and crack.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NWR_Lindy on April 03, 2010, 12:55:00 PM
Anybody that's using this feature for a Linux supercomputer simply doesn't need to install the update. If they're using their PS3s for that I highly doubt they're sitting there using them to play God of War III.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 03, 2010, 02:55:31 PM
Anybody that's using this feature for a Linux supercomputer simply doesn't need to install the update. If they're using their PS3s for that I highly doubt they're sitting there using them to play God of War III.
But there are people who want to use their PS3 as a Linux computer and are also interested in the gaming aspect of it. They aren't researchers trying to unlock the meaning of everything, they just want a cheap Linux PC to do their PC stuff on, but also be able to play the PS3 games too.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NWR_Lindy on April 03, 2010, 04:39:30 PM
While true, the amount of people doing this is crazy small. Everybody trolls Sony for not realizing that the PS3 is a game machine, but when they actually move it in that direction everybody bitches. I don't get it.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 03, 2010, 05:41:47 PM
Well to be fair Sony did sell the system as a supercomputer that also plays games, so it's understandable that people that were using it for that would be upset now that it's a game machine that used to do Linux.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 03, 2010, 07:08:26 PM
Lindy, I think the main reason people are complaining is that stripping this feature is useless. It doesn't save Sony any money (whereas they could legit say that they saved money by removing backwards compatibility) and just pisses off the people who use the feature. It seems suspicious that this "safety" update came right after someone managed to finally hack the PS3.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: stevey on April 03, 2010, 10:06:02 PM
While true, the amount of people doing this is crazy small. Everybody trolls Sony for not realizing that the PS3 is a game machine, but when they actually move it in that direction everybody bitches. I don't get it.
That not true, there is actually a lot of people who use PS3s only for it's Linux support and not gaming (hence they don't post on gaming forums). Oddly enough, the day after this announcement I ended up talking to someone who only bought a PS3 solely for it's "cheap" cell processor computing and spent a good deal of time playing around with his 3D VR gadgets that had true force feedback to interaction with objects in the simulation and mocking his medical rehab power glove 2.0 program (http://www.ti.rutgers.edu/ps3hemi.php) all of which is on a PS3 running Linux.
And for stuff like medical research that going on in multiple states, it kind of makes sense to use a PS3 since you can't expect everyone to have the same exact PC so with a PS3 you know that everyone sees is exactly the thing without extraneous variations in the data due to different machines, which is what you want in well controlled scientific research.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 04, 2010, 01:31:36 AM
While true, the amount of people doing this is crazy small. Everybody trolls Sony for not realizing that the PS3 is a game machine, but when they actually move it in that direction everybody bitches. I don't get it.
I'm happy Nintendo focuses mainly on gaming, but I would be pretty pissed off if they put out a patch that stripped out the Internet Channel. Wouldn't you? Its one thing to never add a feature in the first place, but once you do add it I think its wrong to just take it away after consumers have spent $600 on it.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 04, 2010, 10:17:39 AM
Yes, this totally screws people who bought the console at launch for $400 or $600. It's a stupid, stupid, (at least seemingly) unnecessary move.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 07, 2010, 12:52:54 PM
Don't upgrade to the new firmware yet.
Looks like 3.21 hasn't been cracked, but it has been cloned, with some genetic alterations.
http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/
Quote
OtherOS Supported on "3.21OO" Here is a video demoing my "custom firmware". I would have added something showing off the new features of 3.21, but oh wait, there aren't any.
This can be installed without having to open up your PS3, just by restoring a custom generated PUP file, but only from 3.15 or previous. It's possible this CFW will also work on the slim to actually *enable* OtherOS; I'll know when my infectus gets here.
No release date yet, use the proxy hack to play online with 3.15
Note to the people who removed OtherOS, you are potentially turning 100000+ legit users into "hackers." There was a huge(20x) traffic spike to this blog after the announcement of 3.21. If I had ads on this site I guess I'd be thanking you.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: stevey on April 07, 2010, 01:58:59 PM
Sony: No other OSs on the PS3! Sony: Also no games either for the PlayStation 3!
The 3.21 firmware upgrade, which removes the 'Install Other OS' widget used by lots of educational institutions, also removes the console's ability to play games... (http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/04/07/1221232/Sony-Update-Bricks-Playstations?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29)
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 07, 2010, 03:43:40 PM
Sony: No other OSs on the PS3! Sony: Also no games either for the PlayStation 3!
The 3.21 firmware upgrade, which removes the 'Install Other OS' widget used by lots of educational institutions, also removes the console's ability to play games... (http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/04/07/1221232/Sony-Update-Bricks-Playstations?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29)
LOL. Sony just can't get it right.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 07, 2010, 04:33:15 PM
Every time any of the systems gets an update you hear people saying it bricks their systems (what's funny is the people who hack their Xbox 360 and then bitch that their system got bricked). I can safely say that the update didn't brick my PS3, I updated because I never installed another OS and probably never would.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 07, 2010, 06:15:24 PM
If you wait long enough every patch gets hacked.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 07, 2010, 11:18:10 PM
My friend did get his system bricked (for a while) by the previous update, that was legit, as is this one. GeoHot has already released the first PS3 CFW (or at least created it), btw, which will install 3.21 and still have OtherOS support.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 08, 2010, 02:12:34 AM
So does the 3.21 patch do anything or offer anything at all? Or does it exist for the sole purpose of stripping out Other OS support?
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 08, 2010, 02:46:37 AM
Sole purpose of stripping out OtherOS, which is why the bricking of any consoles is just funny.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 08, 2010, 07:28:10 AM
I was hoping there would at least be some bug fixes with it. Oh well...
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 08, 2010, 09:24:09 AM
Well like it's been mentioned, it does take away the ability to play games as well, at least for a select group of lucky individuals.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 28, 2010, 10:43:39 PM
IGN says on twitter that "Sony is getting sued over Linux removal. Details coming.."
for those that are interested IGN's twitter is the place to look.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 29, 2010, 12:45:36 AM
This is how you build The Road to E3.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 29, 2010, 10:31:06 AM
I'm glad Sony is getting sued for this. I know its not a feature most people cared about, but some did and I think it counts as unfair business practice to remove features your customers have already paid for.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 29, 2010, 12:05:21 PM
I'm late to this, but I can imagine one possibly non-BS reason to remove the feature. If it happened to be the only difference software-wise between the older models and the Slim model, it might save them from the hassle of maintaining two branches of the OS. I doubt that's the case, though. I'd be more surprised if they didn't maintain branches for every hardware revision in existence.
I don't know if the suit will go anywhere. Sony can probably point to a clause in the Terms of Use that gives them carte blanche to rewrite the OS however they please.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 29, 2010, 12:12:02 PM
I can kinda see your point about differing firmware versions, UPB. But the thing is if you buy a product with certain features you shouldn't have those features pulled away from you at a future point. It is Sony's responsibility to maintain firmware updates for its products, and if by creating a Slim Model with gimped features meant they had to split firmware upgrades into two camps then that's their responsibility to do it whether it was more inconvenient for them or not.
Of course, they could have just left that feature in the Slim model and then they wouldn't have had to chop up the firmware upgrades into two branches. This is what they should have done. Rather than pull the feature out, they should have beefed it up more, perhaps even going so far as to have a PS3 Linux distro of their own making installed on the systems by default. That way they could have marketed the system to a broader audience as a computer, and then they really could have stood by their claim of the PS3 "does everything".
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 29, 2010, 12:12:51 PM
ULA/ToS/ToU aren't always valid in every situation, state or country.
It's stupid to remove it from consoles that have already been bought. They should have just removed it from new production consoles and call it a day.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 29, 2010, 12:19:07 PM
ULA/ToS/ToU aren't always valid in every situation, state or country.
It's stupid to remove it from consoles that have already been bought. They should have just removed it from new production consoles and call it a day.
They did do that with the Slim. I don't agree with it, but frankly I'm okay with that because at least then it wasn't a matter of people buying something and then having it taken away from them, because in the case of the Slim models they never had that feature to begin with.
Its the removal of features from the old models that I think violates the law, because that it is fraud to advertise features for a product and then strip them away after consumers have already bought into it. So I think this lawsuit has merit and it will be interesting to see where it goes.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 29, 2010, 12:31:22 PM
Sony Sued For Removal Of Linux Support From PS3 (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1086720p1.html) 'Other OS' feature the center of a new class action lawsuit.
Quote
A class action lawsuit has been filed against Sony Computer Entertainment America for the removal of the 'Other OS' feature from the PlayStation 3.
In March, Sony released firmware v3.21 that disabled the feature, disallowing users install the Linux operating system. The update was not mandatory; however those who chose not to download it were cut off from a number of other features, one of which included signing in to PlayStation Network.
The suit, filed on April 27 by Anthony Ventura of California, seeks to redress Sony for the "intentional disablement of the valuable functionality originally advertised as available" for the Playstation 3. The disabling of Linux support is not only in breach of the sales contract between Sony and its customers, the suit says, but also a deceptive business practice "perpetrated on millions of unsuspecting customers."
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 29, 2010, 12:36:33 PM
They are nuts if they think millions of people used this feature, I think it's a safe bet that the number of people who installed other OS's was in the low thousands. The update was not mandatory. I don't think they would succeed, but frivolous lawsuits sometimes win (you would think it's common sense not to hold a cup of hot coffee between your legs while driving, but one stupid woman was able to trick a gullible jury into giving her money for doing this).
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 29, 2010, 12:44:20 PM
It's not about how many people used it though, it's that Sony sold teh product with advertised Linux support, and are now crippling the feature for all teh systems that do support it whether it was used or not.
It would be like Nintendo deciding that SD card support wasn't worth it anymore (due to homebrewers) and took out SD card support in the new consoles and disabled it in all other consoles too. 75% of Wii users may not even know or care, and 20% of the other 25% may know but not actually use it(yet). Doesn't mean that Nintendo has the right to disable a feature that some us bought the system for even if only a small % of us actually take full advantage of it.
You can even switch the scenario with the GC and it's Digital Audio port, same situation. Most of us didn't care since we didn't use it, but if Nintendo had crippled consoles already sold so that they couldn't use it either, then you would have seen some pissed off people wondering why their systems don't work right anymore.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 29, 2010, 01:05:06 PM
ULA/ToS/ToU aren't always valid in every situation, state or country.
Indeed, and assuming the ToS has such a clause, there will probably be more action over getting the case tried in a favorable jurisdiction than in the actual trial.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 29, 2010, 04:01:41 PM
It was if you wanted to keep the ability to log into PSN.
So either way, consumers were FORCED to give up one of those features. Either they give up Other OS support, or they give up PSN and lose online multiplayer. Either way, its the same sort of issue where a feature was being stripped out that consumers had paid for.
So okay, let's go with what you're saying that it was not mandatory. Fair enough, but you've just lost the ability to play online games so that there is another grounds for a lawsuit.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 29, 2010, 04:07:52 PM
It's not about how many people used it though, it's that Sony sold teh product with advertised Linux support, and are now crippling the feature for all teh systems that do support it whether it was used or not.
It would be like Nintendo deciding that SD card support wasn't worth it anymore (due to homebrewers) and took out SD card support in the new consoles and disabled it in all other consoles too. 75% of Wii users may not even know or care, and 20% of the other 25% may know but not actually use it(yet). Doesn't mean that Nintendo has the right to disable a feature that some us bought the system for even if only a small % of us actually take full advantage of it.
You can even switch the scenario with the GC and it's Digital Audio port, same situation. Most of us didn't care since we didn't use it, but if Nintendo had crippled consoles already sold so that they couldn't use it either, then you would have seen some pissed off people wondering why their systems don't work right anymore.
Another good example would be Gamecube support. Nintendo could release a new Wii model that has GC backwards compatibility stripped out. Knowing Nintendo they may actually do that at some point, but that's not a legal problem in and of itself. But what if Nintendo took it a step further and released a firmware upgrade that stripped out GC BC on all the existing Wiis as well. That would be a violation of the law.
Nintendo hasn't done that of course, but what Sony has done here is very analogous to that.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 30, 2010, 01:41:31 AM
The PS3 slim is perfectly capable of running OtherOS, it's just Sony took it out of the system's software (or never put it in, rather), so they've been dealing with 2 different software versions ever since the Slim was released.
Edit - I don't think Nintendo would ever do that, and it would only need to be done via a software update, seeing as the Wii hardware *is* the GameCube hardware (essentially). I guess they would save a few pennies by removing the Memory Card/Controller ports, but other than that, there would be no reason, or benefit for doing so.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 30, 2010, 01:56:15 AM
Too many Wii games, including games that Nintendo made themselves and are still manufacturing, use the GC controller ports for Nintendo to even consider removing them.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 30, 2010, 10:40:49 AM
Too many Wii games, including games that Nintendo made themselves and are still manufacturing, use the GC controller ports for Nintendo to even consider removing them.
Really? Could you name some examples? Of the peripherals I've seen Nintendo release (Wii Speak, etc) most either interface via bluetooth or the USB ports on the back. Is there any recent Wii games that require the GC ports or card slots?
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 30, 2010, 12:45:26 PM
insanolord, there are o Wii games that REQUIRE the GameCube controller ports. There are plenty of games which have the GameCube controller as an option, but no games require it (same with GameCube memory cards).
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 30, 2010, 01:15:10 PM
I bet there's customers that require it.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Shaymin on April 30, 2010, 06:31:18 PM
Most of them can be found here (http://www.smashboards.com).
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 30, 2010, 08:48:20 PM
insanolord, there are o Wii games that REQUIRE the GameCube controller ports. There are plenty of games which have the GameCube controller as an option, but no games require it (same with GameCube memory cards).
I never said they required it, just that they supported it. Brawl was built around it. Nintendo's all about making things easy for people; the small reduction in production cost wouldn't be worth the PR and tech support consequences.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 01, 2010, 01:16:28 PM
Most games that support the GC ports also support the Classic Controller, so you really don't need the ports in order to have classic control.
I've sold off most of my GC collection and don't really play the few games I have anymore, so I won't miss it too much if Nintendo did strip that feature out. I would be pissed though, because it was a feature I paid for being taken away from me, even though I'm not really using it. But I did use it a bit in the early days of the Wii when there weren't much games.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 01, 2010, 03:38:53 PM
I bet there's customers that require Nintendo GAMECUBE controls and will have nothing less.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Morari on May 01, 2010, 06:16:00 PM
Why would anyone want to use the Classic Controller when they could be using a WaveBird? I mean, really. Nintendo's take on the Classic Controller is barely any better than an SNES gamepad. It's not comfortable and having to plug it into the Wii-mote is cumbersome.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 01, 2010, 06:29:20 PM
Because the Wave Bird is the same design as the regular GameCube controller, and that controller is TERRIBLE for certain Virtual Console games (the first one that springs to mind is Super Mario World, which is almost unplayable with the GameCube controller. I know that alone got me and others to buy a Classic Controller).
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: ThePerm on May 01, 2010, 06:36:19 PM
it works fine on Super Mario World for GBA Player for gamecube :P
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 02, 2010, 03:10:04 PM
Why would anyone want to use the Classic Controller when they could be using a WaveBird? I mean, really. Nintendo's take on the Classic Controller is barely any better than an SNES gamepad. It's not comfortable and having to plug it into the Wii-mote is cumbersome.
Not everyone can find/afford a Wavebird. They are hard to come by these days and usually cost quite a bit when they are put up for sale. They are essentially a collector's item.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Morari on May 02, 2010, 07:31:12 PM
Can't find or afford? I just found dozens on eBay with "Buy It Now" prices of around $20. All it took was a one word search. Nintendo should have provided a better Classic Controller for the Wii. The Wavebird still stands as one of the more comfortable console controllers around.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 02, 2010, 08:28:28 PM
People love the SNES controller and that is basically what the Classic Controller is.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 02, 2010, 08:42:09 PM
People love the SNES controller and that is basically what the Classic Controller is.
This may not be all that surprising given some of my previous statements, but I hate the SNES controller. I own a Classic Controller because certain games are practically unplayable without it, but I use the NES style Wiimote or Wavebird whenever it's possible.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 03, 2010, 11:22:24 AM
I may be the minority, but I love the GC controller and its design. I hate the Classic Controller, because its practically a carbon copy of the unimaginative playstation controller. If you look at the new Classic Controller Pro which is black and has the grips it can be very easily be mistaken for a playstation controller. So I hate it and I think Nintendo has sunk to a new low by ripping off Sony when usually its the other way around.
But aside from being a rip-off, the main reason I hate the CC is because the analog sticks are harder to access because the D-pad is where the first stick should be. Its a major pet peeve of mine that the analog stick must be primary and the d-pad must be secondary. The Xbox controller accomplishes this, and so does the Gamecube controller. The playstation controller and the CC controller get it WRONG.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 03, 2010, 11:54:48 AM
But the PS controller is nothing more than a SNES pad with 2 extra shoulder buttons and two analog sticks. So essentially Nintendo is ripping off themselves.
But it makes sense to make the CC/Pro the same as the Sony consoles because it might entice 3rd parties into making games since they are familiar with the control setup and they've been using it for the past ~15years.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Caliban on May 03, 2010, 12:04:05 PM
The CC Pro is awesome in terms of grip, which for me is the most important factor on a controller. It has better grip than any of the other controllers out there, with exception for Virtual Boy's controller which seems to have very similar grips. The grips have to be long enough, and have just enough thickness to be almost perfectly ergonomic, the Xbox 360, the PlayStation, the GameCube, and even the Wii remote fails in that regard. The CC Pro even has a plus, it doesn't have those irritating L3/R3 pushdown buttons.
To be on topic, doesn't the Linux OS boot up separately from the PS3 OS?
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 03, 2010, 04:00:19 PM
But the PS controller is nothing more than a SNES pad with 2 extra shoulder buttons and two analog sticks. So essentially Nintendo is ripping off themselves.
But it makes sense to make the CC/Pro the same as the Sony consoles because it might entice 3rd parties into making games since they are familiar with the control setup and they've been using it for the past ~15years.
Both are good points.
But I think the GC is the best traditional controller ever made. It just feels right in my hands, and I love how the A and B buttons are different colors and sizes. It makes it much easier to figure out.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2010, 12:34:35 PM
More lawsuits pop up
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1088481p1.html
Quote
Two more class action lawsuits have been filed against Sony Computer Entertainment America for removing the 'Other OS' feature from the PlayStation 3.
The first lawsuit, filed on Wednesday, May 5 by Todd Densmore of Cumming, Ga., and Antal Herz of San Francisco, Calif., claim Sony has rendered several PlayStation 3 features they paid for "inoperable" as a result of the release of firmware 3.21. The update, released on April 1, 2010, disabled the ability to install the Linux operating system. By choosing not to update their console, users couldn't access separate, non-related features, such as signing onto PlayStation Network.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: broodwars on May 11, 2010, 12:41:00 PM
The CC Pro even has a plus, it doesn't have those irritating L3/R3 pushdown buttons.
What's so "irritating" about the L3/R3 analog stick clicks? Most of the time, you have to be trying to even push those buttons and the only time they've ever been an issue for me has been when companies are stupid enough to map something like the "run" command to the L3 button (so that when you're already trying to dance around enemies, you also have to remember to push the stick in, a major nuisance. I'm looking at you, Borderlands!).
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Caliban on May 12, 2010, 01:08:12 AM
Most of the time, you have to be trying to even push those buttons
The L3/R3 buttons on the PS3 controller are too sensitive. With the 360 controller I never had that problem.
What happens is that (in Modern Warfare 2 for example) if I have to move my aim and shoot at the same time in a quick and sudden manner, the R3 will get pressed. It's just how I hold the controller, and since there's no other way to leverage the strength of my grip on the controller the R3 gets smashed... well not smashed, but you get the idea. Instead of killing the opponent I end up dead because the slow ass long knifing motion is triggered.
Running for L3 isn't so bad because it is just adding speed to your moving direction. I don't like it either much, but it doesn't get in the way as much, or at all.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 12, 2010, 01:09:10 AM
You're in luck. Waggle is just around the corner.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 12, 2010, 12:44:54 PM
My problem with the clicking sticks isn't that I press them accidentally, which hasn't really happened to me; it's that they're really awkward to use most of the time.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 12, 2010, 02:57:10 PM
What happens is that (in Modern Warfare 2 for example) if I have to move my aim and shoot at the same time in a quick and sudden manner, the R3 will get pressed. It's just how I hold the controller, and since there's no other way to leverage the strength of my grip on the controller the R3 gets smashed... well not smashed, but you get the idea. Instead of killing the opponent I end up dead because the slow ass long knifing motion is triggered.
That same thing happens to me too. I just don't know if I'm hitting it accidentally like you are or if its something instinctive I do whenever an enemy suddenly appears, because that is the thing to do when an enemy is that close... but I have done it too when the enemy is far away so I'm not sure. It is probably accidental.
Running for L3 isn't so bad because it is just adding speed to your moving direction. I don't like it either much, but it doesn't get in the way as much, or at all.
It can cause a problem because when you push L3 down it causes you to sprint, and while you are sprinting you can't fire your guns until you stop sprinting so that creates a delay that is often fatal.
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 15, 2010, 09:55:33 PM
How much clout do you think the lawsuit against Sony would gain if the United States Air Force (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/05/how-removing-ps3-linux-hurts-the-air-force.ars) were to join in on the lawsuit?
That would be kinda funny. US Gov vs Sony. I'm not sure if that's a case Sony would want to fight anymore. That's not the situation we're looking at[yet ;) ] but it could happen.
edit:
What the PS3 Class Action Lawsuit Means For You (http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/108/1087583p1.html) Attorney helps break down the case against Sony over Linux removal.
Quote
Last week, a class action lawsuit was filed against Sony Computer Entertainment America for the removal of the 'Other OS' functionality originally included in all PlayStation 3 consoles. The feature, which allowed users to install the Linux operating system, was removed through a firmware update for the PS3 in March.
Many IGN readers wanted to know what this all means for them, so we spoke to Rebecca Coll, the attorney from the firm Meiselman, Denlea, Packman, Carton & Eberz P.C. who filed the suit against Sony. She helped break down the court process behind this class action lawsuit and what PS3 owners should be aware of going forward.
Coll said it's entirely too early in the case to predict when this might go to trial. But she said everyone who purchased a PS3 can be included.
We are going to ask the court to let us proceed as a nationwide class action. If the court agrees, the court will 'define the class,'" she told IGN. "Right now, our proposed 'class definition' includes everybody in the country who bought the PS3 from the time of launch until March 27, 2010."
"This class definition reflects, in part, that Sony commanded a much higher price for the gaming console based on the functionality of the 'Other OS' feature at the time of its launch and trumpeted the 'Other OS' feature in its subsequent marketing," she explained. "As a result, consumers paid much more for a product than they should otherwise have been charged now that Sony has disabled the 'Other OS' feature."
"If the court adopts this definition, then everyone fitting within that definition would automatically be included in the class action, unless they choose to 'opt out,'" she added.
Coll explained that notifications of the class action will then be sent to PS3 owners through various ways.
"Once the court defines the class, the court will order that the 'class' receive notice of the action," she said. "Notice methods vary. Sometimes notice is by publication in newspapers, by mail, by email, through internet postings, or any combination of those" she said. "The notice will advise class members how long they have to 'opt out' of the class. Sometimes, if there is a settlement at or before the time the class is certified, this 'class notice' also lets people know how they can file a claim, and tells people the deadline to file their claims."
"In other words, people technically do not need to do anything to 'sign on' to the lawsuit—if they fit within the class definition then they are automatically part of it unless they affirmatively ask to be let out of it after the class is certified," she explained.
Coll said PS3 users are encouraged to contact the firm to share their experiences. The group is compiling a database of dissatisfied Sony consumers, and will provide status updates as the litigation unfolds. Head over to their website to learn more.
As for what PS3 owners interested in this case should do in the meantime, Coll said to hang onto your console, packages, and receipts (if you have them) until this litigation is over.
I hope they win, but It just sound like they are approaching it all wrong. Wouldn't removing functionality already paid for sound better than price it was paid for based on functionality? Or is this just them trying to tie a monetary value to the case early on?
Any lurking Lawyers out there? Law students? someone with a family member who once needed or knew a lawyer?
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 24, 2010, 02:47:19 AM
and another one http://ps3.ign.com/articles/109/1092140p1.html
Title: Re: PS3 losing Linux
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 24, 2010, 07:29:11 AM
I just want to point out this isn't just about Linux but also any OS that could be installed on the PS3. Of course, yes, Linux was the main thing but other stuff was used or could have been used as well.
