Post by: Crimm on December 05, 2009, 01:18:33 PM
In the upcoming episode of Radio Free Nintendo, I talk at some length about the death of my Xbox 360. In a way, it seems comical that I should talk about the expiration of a console that is less than 14 months old on the same episode that Chris Kohler speaks of his functioning Vectrex. In a way, I should have known.
To be clear, when we spoke with Mr. Kohler, the Xbox still ran like a champ. In fact, after we finished our "Special Edition" Monday recording I proceeded to play it. It was Tuesday that things began to turn sideways.
I was playing The Last Remnant, somewhere around hour five-hundred thirty-three of that game, when I noticed some strange graphical glitches. Much of the action was covered in small black squares. Graphical glitches being nothing new for this title, I assumed Square Enix's struggles with Unreal Engine 3 had found a new way to manifest itself.
Of course, it hadn't. I saved, having just claimed a new remnant (The Dead-Heart), I had already saved. I just turned the system off and started it back on. Everything seemed okay, so I continued to my target, a confrontation with forces of "The Conquer."
The graphics began to struggle again, so I turned it off, after getting a taste for the joy I was about to experience. It would have to hold me over until I got home from work the next day.
Of course, I spent at least a small amount of time that day thinking about how "awesome this will be."
I came home. Turned on the console. E74.
It's a strange feeling. When I bought my 360 I knew all about the hardware failures, yet I never felt that there was any risk it could happen to me. It left me feeling powerless.
I went through the stages of grief.
1. On - Off - On - Off. Certainly, this thing would work long enough that I could complete this battle.
2. I grumbled and groaned that Microsoft cannot create a consistently reliable piece of hardware. I wanted all these years to get a dependable console. "They must be some kind of incompetents!"
3. "Come on, you can run! I know you can! Just let me play the rest of the game, and I'll send you off for some much-needed R&R!"
4. I began to think there was no way I was going to ever complete this damn game. All that time lost. Wasted. I was beside myself.
5. I went and dug up some packing material, a cardboard box from 1999 for an industrial Panasonic VCR. As to why I had such a box I have no answer.
Of course, I screwed up the packing job, I neglected to put my address and the repair number on the exterior of the box, as Microsoft's handy packing chart extols you to do. They have the serial number and my address on the repair, if they can't connect the dots then there really is no helping them.
It landed in the mail Friday. UPS Stores are predictably a bit chaotic at this time of year, but it wasn't particularly harrowing.
If you've bared with me through this narrative, thank you. I'm sure it's even more boring then when you listen to me tell these stories on RFN (if you don't listen, please do!).
Really, the story isn't the important bits here. I did some math as to how "deep" I am into the 360, from a monetary standpoint. It's about $470.00 including the console. Once again, not really the point.
The point is a bit more technical. The 360's failure is a direct result of the power the system wields. I'll spare you the physics, but as a microprocessor becomes more complicated, more powerful, and more sophisticated it takes more electricity to run. That creates more heat.
Heat is bad for electronics.
In the case of my poor 360, it was lethal.
Having worked myself through school doing various technical support jobs, I've seen more than a few laptops cook themselves. That was something it was always unpleasant to tell a client.
Of course, as technology advances, a processor of the same power becomes more efficient. It runs cooler. Computers don't die.
In the future, consoles are going to become more powerful. At the moment, it seems almost a fools errand to try to put more power into home consoles. Games look stunning, and every year games that look even more stunning are released. However, it's going to happen.
Progress.
I'd never had a console fail before. Nintendo makes fairly robust hardware, and I have always been primarily a Nintendo owner. Don't be surprised if system failures are part of the console future. The more you pack in the box, the greater the risk.
I do hope that all future consoles look at the example of the Xbox 360. Robustness is an underrated element of console design.
Let's not kid ourselves, even after the life-cycle of a console you still expect it to work. What good is your collection of games if you have no machine to play them on?
Let's just say that I expect to see a hole in my entertainment center again, sometime in the future.
Just to be clear, I'm not writing this as a dig at the Xbox 360. It is a good console with a solid library. It just is fragile.
Post by: BwrJim! on December 06, 2009, 12:37:01 AM
almost to the hole in the ground, starts to lock.. dink dink... dink.. three rings of red light...
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 06, 2009, 12:51:58 AM
Post by: MegaByte on December 06, 2009, 01:02:02 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on December 06, 2009, 01:05:04 AM
Post by: Morari on December 06, 2009, 01:28:51 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on December 06, 2009, 02:27:33 AM
Post by: Mop it up on December 06, 2009, 02:42:32 AM
It's amazing how the Nintendo 64 could survive without cooling fans. That thing gets HOT.
Post by: KDR_11k on December 06, 2009, 03:31:30 AM
Post by: MegaByte on December 06, 2009, 04:19:51 AM
Post by: Crimm on December 06, 2009, 04:22:13 AM
Heat, of course, is not the only reason consoles of the future will fail. They will fail because they're more complicated.
Post by: Stratos on December 06, 2009, 05:02:16 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on December 06, 2009, 06:36:04 AM
The heat is still the root of the issue. Poor management of heat causes the failure.
Heat, of course, is not the only reason consoles of the future will fail. They will fail because they're more complicated.
But computers don't fail like that even when they're made of cutting edge components. This is a serious engineering failure, not just the result of technology getting better.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 06, 2009, 11:40:33 AM
Microsoft didn't do that, so there you go.
Post by: kraken613 on December 06, 2009, 11:53:01 AM
Post by: MegaByte on December 06, 2009, 12:22:12 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on December 06, 2009, 02:14:05 PM
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 06, 2009, 03:00:21 PM
Post by: Mop it up on December 06, 2009, 05:02:23 PM
Post by: D_Average on December 06, 2009, 08:23:58 PM
Post by: MegaByte on December 06, 2009, 09:22:52 PM
And hopefully a switch back to cartridges as well. They've always had more benefits than discs, the only reason for the switch was prices but those are dropping all the time so hopefully it will reach a point where it isn't a factor.Yeah, no. There will be downloads, and if they do decide to distribute through silicon, it will probably be through SD card.
Post by: Mop it up on December 07, 2009, 12:34:50 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2009, 01:35:04 AM
Post by: Mop it up on December 07, 2009, 03:28:28 AM
Post by: Stratos on December 07, 2009, 03:36:53 AM
Nintendo has also showed distaste for disc based media too and look where that has gotten us...
A disk based system with almost no load times as opposed to the crappy loading screen wait of the PS1?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2009, 10:31:38 AM
Nintendo has also showed distaste for disc based media too and look where that has gotten us...
A disk based system with almost no load times as opposed to the crappy loading screen wait of the PS1?
But a Disc based system it is.
I'm sure a DD system will happen one day, but probably not within the near future. Broadband connection would have to be absolutely everywhere otherwise they are shutting out potential customers. So even though it may happen one day, I wouldn't expect it until at least after the next 2 generations.
Post by: MegaByte on December 07, 2009, 11:38:37 AM
That's a pretty scary future. Nintendo has expressed distaste for downloads so hopefully they choose cartridges.Nintendo had in-store writeable disks in Japan for the Famicom, in-store writeable ROM cartridges for the Super Famicom and Game Boy, satellite downloads, N64-equivalent in-store and downloadable writeable ROM cartridges and internet downloads in China, and a limited set of downloadable to SD card content for DS in Japan. Their latest two systems have SD card slots and support downloads. They have a lot of experience with this, it makes more sense cost-wise, and consumers are now more used to it, so it's an obvious direction to take. They've been consistently moving towards standardized interfaces (e.g. SD, USB, Bluetooth) over their proprietary connections. It may not happen next gen, but maybe the one after that.
Post by: Mop it up on December 07, 2009, 02:04:22 PM
Post by: vudu on December 07, 2009, 02:15:54 PM
Post by: MegaByte on December 07, 2009, 03:25:53 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 07, 2009, 03:51:35 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2009, 04:37:10 PM
Now, optical media could still have a future if holographic storage takes off. Nintendo does have a lot of investment in a company that it working on such a product, but I don't know what state it will be in by the time the next console launches... silicon could be more sensible. Digital distribution is getting bigger by the day. But for those not using that yet, I've already seen an increase in retailers selling movies, music, and software on USB sticks and SD cards. And then there's Redbox and their plan to start renting games. I could see these boxes converted into download stations in the future.
That is probably the next step in digital distribution. Retailers with disc pressers and manual printers. then the employees assembles the game and you come back in 20 minutes to pick it up.
They can't up and just abandon point of purchase sales as many retailers wouldn't go along with that(and see Pro's point above) and probably refuse to sell the systems. They are gonna have to ease everyone into it, and I could see some sort of retail download station that either use disc or flash media of some sort, or some sort of digital press so that a store always has a copy of the game and if you come back in 30 minutes, they will have it ready to go for you.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 07, 2009, 05:36:47 PM
I'm not a crazy kook that's alone in this idealogy. This is a common complaint about digital downloads. I think a big part of it is I didn't grow up with the internet. It was something that was introduced to the masses when I was in high school and I personally didn't start using it on a regular basis until I was in college. Meanwhile there are kids graduating high school right now who have never lived without the internet. Though there is only a ten year age difference it's like a huge generation gap. When I was a kid it was exceptional to have a computer, a cell phone was a huge luxury item and MP3 players didn't exist at all. "Download" was probably not even a word.
If you have observed your grandparents or parents you've probably noticed that people tend to not like trying out new things as they get older. Ideally for something to truly be accepted the older generation that instinctively hates it has to die off first. Rock n roll used to be this super evil rebel music. These days it's practically adult contemporary as people who grew up with rock music are in their 60's. The old geezers who thought Elvis Presley played the Devil's music are all either dead or close to it. And they all ceased being a part of any sort of major target demographic long ago. Their kids are now old enough that the market doesn't target them. Videogame are a common target of controversy. That's because they're still so new. The generation that never knew them still has clout.
Well a great deal of people under 40 are used to buying physical media and probably would not be so quick to embrace a completely digitial download-only model. Keep in mind that Nintendo attracted a whole bunch of older people with the Wii and DS. You think those people will stick around to use a download-only model? Digital downloads are just too new to completely take over. They have to wait until the target age demographic is such that everybody has known about the internet and downloading their whole life and thus have no attachment to physical media. Well I'm in the demographic of geezers that have an attachment to physical media and I'm not even 30 yet. So until another 30-35 years or so when I'm of an age group that videogame companies no longer want to attract the business of, physical media is going to stick around. At the very least there is no way that they're just going to switch to a download-only model overnight.
Post by: MegaByte on December 07, 2009, 06:39:38 PM
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/08/01/opinion/musicforweb2.gif)(source: NY Times)
For better or worse.
I don't expect Nintendo to be first-mover though. They've been too conservative on the media front.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 07, 2009, 11:04:13 PM
I've bought so many things on amazon.com lately that I don't even remember doing it sometimes. It's just so easy to do that you just
Post by: Ian Sane on December 08, 2009, 02:06:43 PM
I'd also like to note that when I download a demo from PSN it often takes like an hour or even a couple of hours. And this is just for a DEMO, not a full-size game that's several gigs. Yeah everyone likes downloading songs because they're small so it takes no time. But movies and videogames are huge and in the amount of time it takes to download well, ****, I might as well just drive to the store. And what if something goes wrong during the download? Super, now I have to try again and wait another four hours. These days we're all into HD and all that so everything is bigger. And remember that right now only a fraction of the audience is downloading games. If everyone HAS to do it there is going to be a whole **** load more traffic. Imagine some big hyped up new game gets released and it's like 4 GB and on day one HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE are trying to download it at the same time. I don't think that sort of issue is thought of very often because right now using Steam is more like a hip thing to do that the mainstream is unaware of. Only a small fraction of the market is buying it that way. You think "this is so easy and convenient, why doesn't everyone do it this way?" Well if everyone did it this way it might not be so easy and convenient. There are a lot of things to think about. They can't just upload a bunch of huge files to a network and away we go.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 08, 2009, 03:00:22 PM
That requires them to go with the options that they have or go with nothing at all. So if DD was to come about, it will be in baby steps and at first as a convenience option.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 08, 2009, 03:21:29 PM
Post by: Stratos on December 08, 2009, 08:06:28 PM
Broadband speeds in the US aren't what they need to be. In Europe, my 15-22Mb connection is a joke, over here's it's a pretty big deal. The one thing that would absolutely *KILL* digital download as a main format for gaming, however, would be if all the ISPs start imposing caps on monthly bandwidth.
A number of them already do. Comcast finally admitted last year to capping. Speed should not be something you pay for but the amount of data you are sending and receiving.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 08, 2009, 09:56:14 PM
Broadband speeds in the US aren't what they need to be. In Europe, my 15-22Mb connection is a joke, over here's it's a pretty big deal. The one thing that would absolutely *KILL* digital download as a main format for gaming, however, would be if all the ISPs start imposing caps on monthly bandwidth.
A number of them already do. Comcast finally admitted last year to capping. Speed should not be something you pay for but the amount of data you are sending and receiving.
But I would be undone!
Post by: Crimm on December 08, 2009, 10:04:21 PM
If you buy a 360 console at somewhere like Best Buy, do they offer the 3 year warranty for it? And if so, does it cover the red ring and E74?
Microsoft has extended the length of the warranty for those specific problems. Mine was outside the one-year, but they offer two additional years for those problems.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 09, 2009, 12:53:45 AM
Post by: D_Average on December 09, 2009, 01:57:59 AM
If you buy a 360 console at somewhere like Best Buy, do they offer the 3 year warranty for it? And if so, does it cover the red ring and E74?
Microsoft has extended the length of the warranty for those specific problems. Mine was outside the one-year, but they offer two additional years for those problems.
Good to hear. Though it should be a simple process, I'm sure MS will pull all sorts of Ubisoft like moves in fixing your system. Looking forward to hearing progress reports on the upcoming shows.
Post by: vudu on December 09, 2009, 11:55:08 AM
I made you a lasagna--bake it at 350 degrees for 30 minutes, remove the foil and continue baking for another 10 minutes; let cool for 15 minutes before serving.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 09, 2009, 12:13:52 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 09, 2009, 12:16:43 PM
Post by: Crimm on December 10, 2009, 09:39:36 PM
1296 Miles, 20 hours and 19 minutes.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/zCrimm/xboxpath.png)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 10, 2009, 09:45:08 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on December 11, 2009, 04:07:20 PM
Post by: vudu on December 11, 2009, 04:09:52 PM
Crimm lives in Texas?
No, you start from A, not F!
Post by: ShyGuy on December 12, 2009, 04:06:20 AM
This is why I keep vudu around, to correct my mistaeks.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 12, 2009, 11:30:39 AM
Post by: vudu on December 12, 2009, 02:42:15 PM
Crimm lives in the capital of Virginia?
It's in his profile!
Post by: D_Average on December 12, 2009, 11:56:52 PM
Post by: Crimm on December 13, 2009, 12:28:18 AM
Post by: D_Average on December 13, 2009, 12:34:11 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on December 13, 2009, 05:24:17 AM
ahhhh schnap!
That's what the cartilage in his nose did!
Post by: Crimm on December 13, 2009, 04:55:17 PM
I'd be happy if they waited to move it to repair in progress till someone was actually working on it.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 16, 2009, 08:52:37 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on December 16, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
Post by: D_Average on December 16, 2009, 10:28:39 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on December 16, 2009, 10:31:27 PM
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 16, 2009, 11:45:14 PM
Post by: D_Average on December 17, 2009, 09:58:19 AM
Was James Jones banned from public pools?
Possibly. But I was implying memorial day. I should have specified outdoor pools.
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on December 17, 2009, 10:05:10 AM
I think Justin Mcelroy from Joystiq lives in Virginia too. You too must obviously know each other. Tell him I said whats up!
That dude cracks me up.
