Post by: Pale on October 27, 2009, 11:45:15 AM
A relatively bizarre rumor about Nintendo releasing a new DS has been swirling around the web over the past 24 hours. It's bizarre because the DSi is still a baby. In fact, the new features that the DSi brought to the table have barely been utilized to this point. What could they possibly add now?
Bigger screens of course! Do they realize this will actually make all of the games look worse? Without increasing both the resolution and horsepower, this new DS will likely feel like a downgrade. Yes, that statement includes a pretty big assumption. It's a safe one though. Assuming this new DS rumor is true at all, it's safe to say that if it did feature a significant performance hike, Nintendo wouldn't be quietly sneaking it out without a proper E3 unveil.
The rumors have been referencing two reasons for this new system: to compete with the better screens on the iPhone and PSP, and to make the system friendlier for older players. The first one is laughable. It's not going to compete with those screens. In fact, it's going to do just the opposite. It will emphasize the shortcomings of the DS screen even more. The reason people like the DS/DSi screens so much is because of their crispness and clarity. This has everything to do with the relative pixel size. The DS's pixels are already significantly larger than those of the iPhone. This rumored new unit will make that difference even greater! Check out the comparison image below. These images should be close to life size if your monitor is close to 72 DPI. Notice how the larger dimensions make the game feel more archaic?
This is the primary reason the Game Boy Micro is such a great device. It did the exact opposite. Shrinking the screen size makes the relative pixel size smaller, which improves the visual fidelity of the experience.
This all says nothing of the increased bulk this rumored device would require, which would take the DS farther way from another competitive advantage of the iPhone and PSPgo, that being the ease of carrying the device around in a pocket. Just look at what would have to happen if the same clam-shell design and button sizes were maintained ("new" DS mock-up on left, DSi on right).
Maybe this mystery machine is the true "DS2", and Nintendo is bucking tradition and going for a surprise launch. If that's the case and the four-inch screen spec is true, they need to leave the vertical resolution and height alone, and instead move to a wider format. This would allow for original DS games to run at the same DPI that the DSi does. Newer games could then take advantage of a larger screen without the ugliness inherent with larger pixels. Assuming a clam-shell design and equivalent button sizes, it could look something like the image below. As you can see in this mock-up, the top screen acts as if it were playing an original DS game, and the bottom screen acts as if it were playing a "DS2" game. Pixels are all relatively sized to give you a somewhat precise feeling for what it would look like.
Sadly, this mock-up is nothing more than a pipe dream at this point. As the astute reader may be thinking, it does not do anything to help older people see the screens better for original DS games.
I've purchased every DS iteration up to this point, because I've felt that each one brings worthwhile new features to the table. I will not be buying a system that makes all my games look uglier. The DS is eating the lunch of the PSP and iPhone as a gaming platform because of its own competitive advantages. There is no reason to attack their screens unless it is done correctly.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 27, 2009, 01:02:23 PM
And your comparison shot doesn't accurately get your point across. The pixel interpolation generated by the image scaling has introduced degredation. IF increasing the DS screen size means increasing the physical pixel size, then a better real-world example would be holding up the actual DS Lite closer to your eyeballs to enlarge the image, or, use a magnifying lens. You could've just posted an official DS game screenshot and asked us to stick our faces closer to our monitors to get the desirable effect.
Post by: Pale on October 27, 2009, 01:41:27 PM
It's true holding the DS closer gets that effect, and holding the DS closer causes the image to break down. The same can be said for sitting too close to a digital projector. When you can start to count the pixels, that's all you see... not the image they are trying to create.
None of that hides the fact that Nintendo is counting on consumer ignorance with "tricks" like this. It would be a ridiculous claim to say that this rumored DS screen is "as good" as the iPhone's screen because they are the same size in inches.
Pro, when you are shopping for a computer monitor, what do you value more? size in inches or maximum native resolution?
Obviously, I always look for both, but I would buy a 21" monitor over a 24" monitor if the 21 pushed a higher resolution.
Post by: vudu on October 27, 2009, 02:25:55 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 27, 2009, 02:28:06 PM
Yes, the width of the margins between each pixel become more noticeable, giving outline-definitions to the squares. But really, that's holding the darn thing TOO close. Treating the current screen like the proposed 4" screen is a matter of moving it a couple inches closer (maybe less than that), and keeping practical, we shouldn't be holding it to our face close enough to stab our eyes with the stylus; IT'S FINE at elbow's length, slightly bigger pixels or not, closer than that would be optically uncomfortable for me. Just my assumption, if the pixels are manufactured to be larger, I don't think those margins would increase, therefore not magnifying the bad bits.
"When you can start to count the pixels, that's all you see... not the image they are trying to create."
How on earth did we get past the 320x240 MS-DOS age? Game Boy Tetris? How on earth are we still playing 8/16-bit games on our 50"+ TVs?
"It would be a ridiculous claim to say that this rumored DS screen is "as good" as the iPhone's screen because they are the same size in inches."
No argument here. That's a marketing issue. I'm zeroing in on whether bigger pixels means worse images; a flexible balance exists. With regards to a new DS Game Player introduced to be a DS Game Player and NOT a web-browsing-GPS-smarty-cam-phone, consumer ignorance shrinks as an issue if consumer comfort is already met.
"Pro, when you are shopping for a computer monitor, what do you value more? size in inches or maximum native resolution?"
I was about to say PRICE, cuz the high-rez movement has been kicking dirt in my face for several years. I'm trying to enjoy and work with video happily on a CRT for the sake of viewing video closer to their native resolutions so that I can achieve a comfy viewing size and maintain pixel-accuracy. Then the HD movement comes along, with super-rez and smaller pixels without exception, and now all videos are suddenly smaller than post-it notes (standard text is even smaller now) such that I have to suddenly scale up more than 3-4X to fill up my screen (for comfy viewing), throwing interpolated junk pixels at me when I'm trying to analyze the image content?
I upgraded from a CRT this past January only cuz the <$200 deals on 22" 2ms 1080p LCDs started trickling down. Industry, jump off a cliff.
Post by: Pale on October 27, 2009, 03:04:38 PM
If this new DSi is targeted towards older players then who cares what Mario & Luigi looks like? These people aren't going to buy that game. Show me Brain Age or Cooking Training or Crosswords DS. These games are going to be easy for your mom to read on a larger screen. Resolution on these games really doesn't matter nearly as much as size.The whole thesis of my post is based off the fact that one of the reasons floating around in the rumors is to compete with the PSP and iPhone screens. If the sole reason for this new version is to fill a niche with old people, then yeah, I withdraw my argument.
To Pro:
Yeah it sucks for you because of all the work you've done on video over the past several years, but in the magical world where you did all that with a higher res version, wouldn't that make for a better viewing experience now?
I feel for your specific pain, but not letting go of the past is one of the technology industries greatest flaws. It's the companies willing to throw stuff out that are gaining the most ground.
Apple threw out OS 9.
Nintendo threw out the traditional controller.
I am happy that we are in the process of "throwing out" standard definition. While it can be frustrating now, it will make for a better looking future. =P That's why I get so frustrated when I feel like Nintendo is ok with incremental upgrades in that regard.
Post by: Louieturkey on October 27, 2009, 03:22:10 PM
This was the rumor before the DSi was announced. They rumored that a new larger screen DS was going to be released for the older crowd (ie 50 and above) so they could see the screen better. They may have ditched that in favor of the DSi but are getting the same complaints from the older demos and are going to now do this with the DSi instead.If this new DSi is targeted towards older players then who cares what Mario & Luigi looks like? These people aren't going to buy that game. Show me Brain Age or Cooking Training or Crosswords DS. These games are going to be easy for your mom to read on a larger screen. Resolution on these games really doesn't matter nearly as much as size.The whole thesis of my post is based off the fact that one of the reasons floating around in the rumors is to compete with the PSP and iPhone screens. If the sole reason for this new version is to fill a niche with old people, then yeah, I withdraw my argument.
I really don't think they will replace the current DSi with this new model. I don't think there would be much point actually.
Post by: ShyGuy on October 27, 2009, 03:48:17 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 27, 2009, 04:03:55 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 27, 2009, 04:37:03 PM
Dunno, magical world costs MEGA$$$ in upgrades. Higher rez means increased horsepower, increased file size, and increased bandwidth requirement, and therefore increased costs. Part of my user-comfort/"good enough" tech philosophy is keep convenience up and costs down. If the costs for the high-spec content reaches convenience, then the low-spec content is even MORE convenient and even cheaper -- why abandon that?
"I feel for your specific pain, but not letting go of the past is one of the technology industries greatest flaws. It's the companies willing to throw stuff out that are gaining the most ground."
"2D" gaming might be a thing of the past, but it's proven to still be practical to this day. Let's throw that out, why don't we.
Sony threw out physical, easy-swap in/out media for the PSP Go. Nice one.
Sony threw out backwards compatibility for the PS3. Nice one.
Nintendo threw out the traditional controller? This is the WORST time to mention that! The Wii Remote is one of the MOST traditional controllers today, just rotated to a different angle and given a 6million Dollar Man bionic upgrade so that it looks like the old thing but has a new Magick Murder Bag of tricks. Nintendo's BIGGEST game this season is a 2D platformer that hardly uses motion magick and tells users it's OK to play games from a couch again (!). Motion Plus, their "big" advancement, is old news at this point given the drought of products that could've utilized it (!). Their MAJOR 3rd party partnership with Capcom went as far as promoting some CLASSIC CONTROLLER of all things alongside the biggest Wii 3rd party game of the year (!), painting a picture of what the primary interface should be.
I guess Nintendo is abandoning the Wii Remote to succeed, causing my message to fall apart.
I went to the post office during lunch break to pickup a package. I opened it and it turns the ebay seller from JAPAN shipped me the wrong item. I am PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED PISSED.
Post by: Pale on October 27, 2009, 05:54:41 PM
The past is the past. The future is THE FUTURE!
=P
I just don't understand how you can really make an argument that hanging on to ancient technologies is a good thing. That's one thing about all your posts on this subject I will never be able to comprehend. Why abandon lower price points? Because the higher price points are BETTER!
If someone can afford X dollars now and super fancy better technology costs 2X dollars, they obviously won't get it.
When super fancy better technology costs X dollars and the original technology costs .5X dollars they can afford both, why not get something that is better?
I mean, why do you even have a Wii now? If you stuck with NES you would have been able to cheaply play hundreds and hundreds of games over the past 20 years.
Post by: AV on October 27, 2009, 06:34:31 PM
That being said do older japanese population have larger sums of disposable income?
Maybe i'm looking at it in the eyes of an American, but upgrading technology and old people are not known for being one and the same.
The bigger screens would be nicer, but why would they burn money upgrading when the unit they might already have that currently works just fine.
Post by: that Baby guy on October 27, 2009, 06:35:42 PM
So really, I think this is a matter where we should ask ourselves "Why don't we get it?" As in, why can't we understand that we don't particularly have to care about this new version of the DS, as this type of consumer.
Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to Pale, since he's a gaming journalist, but with most anyone else, I don't see why we'd care, and I don't see why we can't just let Nintendo do it and just forget about it.
Post by: ShyGuy on October 27, 2009, 07:52:45 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 27, 2009, 07:58:40 PM
Post by: spitman on October 27, 2009, 09:18:57 PM
Post by: spitman on October 27, 2009, 09:21:56 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on October 27, 2009, 09:39:25 PM
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/shyguy70/mg503.jpg)
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 27, 2009, 09:53:08 PM
Post by: broodwars on October 28, 2009, 12:15:43 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on October 28, 2009, 12:48:04 AM
Oh wait, these are just alternatives, and none-more expensive. Buy it if you want, don't buy it if you don't want, but why really care? Virtually no R&D went into this. I can't figure out why it's such a big deal!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on October 28, 2009, 12:59:46 AM
I also have to agree with thatguy in that a big deal has been done over this. This is still just a rumor, with no evidence of how the screens would look. At this time, all we are doing is arguing over something that is non-existent.
Post by: that Baby guy on October 28, 2009, 01:15:45 AM
I just don't even see the point in talking about this as a forum member. This should be good news. I was hoping to see something like headlines of "Nintendo could be looking to make the DSi more accessible." Or at least something like that. I do agree with Pale, to an extent, because if you've got a DSi, you've got no reason to want this. But... Just because you don't want something doesn't mean it's a bad thing. It's like someone with a white Wii complaining about the new black model, saying how it'll show dust and dirt more than the white one. Yeah, everyone knows that already, but some people like different colors. It's not for the people with the original color, it's for people who like it, and both can get along just fine.
Post by: D_Average on October 28, 2009, 02:46:58 AM
Remember these creatures?
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/shyguy70/mg503.jpg)
Wow. Totally forgot I had that! Playing games through that thing made me queasy for some reason.
Post by: Pale on October 28, 2009, 07:46:56 AM
As I said before, if it does end up just being a niche product, I withdraw my statement that they don't get it. I just think it's a valid concern that they think increasing the pixel size is all it takes to appear to be on an even keel (from a technological standpoint) with the PSP and the iPhone.
Post by: Podings on October 28, 2009, 09:22:16 AM
What I heard primarily was that a supposed new DSi model with have larger screens and larger buttons (making the system and the pixels bigger, yes) for ease of use for older people.
These people do NOT own a PSP or iPhone, and are probably not considering getting one. The DSi meanwhile features plenty of worthwhile distractions for the elderly, and a slightly larger machine altogether just might be what they needed.
I'm pretty convinced no-one has been expecting this to actually be a "new" DS.
Post by: Pale on October 28, 2009, 09:55:00 AM
/sigh.
Post by: jakeOSX on October 28, 2009, 12:01:45 PM
i don't think nintendo is competing with the PSP, and certainly not the iPhone with the DS. i think it is the other way around. The DS has such a strangle on the handheld market that as long as they don't screw up the DS2 (tegra!) things will go just fine for big N.
this is NOT to say that the iPhone and PSP aren't doing well, aren't competing, etc. but there are two things to remember:
first the iphone as a handheld gaming competition is nearly a joke. Bad battery life, no buttons, etc, etc. sure the games will look nice, but could you imagine platforming with accelerometers? it is one thing on the Wii where there is separation of screen and control, but when you have to keep your eyes on the controller as you 'waggle' ain't a pretty thing. civ, soduku and even driving games, sure. but FPS (not impossible) and platformers, not so much. (touching the screen to fire? now i can't see what's going on!) (disclaimer, i am an apple fan boy)
handheld games have one advantage over console games. no one seems to think it odd to have an iphone and a DS and a PSP. hell i have a DSi and a gameboy micro in my travel bag at all times. they compete against each other, but then they don't.
just MHO.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 28, 2009, 12:24:11 PM
Again, I want to emphasize that really the entire assumption/concern behind this post is that Nintendo will be doing this to "compete" with iPhone and PSP and will be replacing the current DSi with it... ie Stop manufacturing the current DSi.
As I said before, if it does end up just being a niche product, I withdraw my statement that they don't get it. I just think it's a valid concern that they think increasing the pixel size is all it takes to appear to be on an even keel (from a technological standpoint) with the PSP and the iPhone.
Once again, I repeat GBA SP with brighter screens replacing the old GBA SP. Nintendo does stuff like this, it isn't a big deal.
Post by: Pale on October 28, 2009, 12:36:07 PM
I know I don't have to buy one, but I would if mine broke. And regardless, the blog was meant more looking at Nintendo's philosophies as a whole and how this would be an example of them missing the boat.
The only way I'll withdraw my complaint is if the current DSi continues to be manufactured.
Ya know, I would buy a new DSi that had 2 inch screens and was a heck of a lot smaller! =P
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 28, 2009, 12:55:03 PM
We'll see how the screens look though when playing a game. I will say if history is any indication it WILL replace the current DSi whether any of us like it or not.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 28, 2009, 01:13:12 PM
Those iPhone remarks had to have originated somewhere (like it was made up), obviously not from a Nintendo press release. Another case of bad journalism?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 28, 2009, 01:14:14 PM
Where did you hear that this move is to "compete" with the other devices?
What I heard primarily was that a supposed new DSi model with have larger screens and larger buttons (making the system and the pixels bigger, yes) for ease of use for older people.
These people do NOT own a PSP or iPhone, and are probably not considering getting one. The DSi meanwhile features plenty of worthwhile distractions for the elderly, and a slightly larger machine altogether just might be what they needed.
I'm pretty convinced no-one has been expecting this to actually be a "new" DS.
"I doubt it is to compete with iPhone, while there may be marketing speak floating around with that connotation I think it is really about the older audience."
Those iPhone remarks had to have originated somewhere (like it was made up), obviously not from a Nintendo press release. Another case of bad journalism?
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=29701.msg559542#msg559542
The only way I'll withdraw my complaint is if the current DSi continues to be manufactured.
What if the new DSi actually upscales the image instead of just stretching it to fit the screen? Would you withdraw your comment then?
I know that's unlikely to happen, but it is a "what if" situation.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 28, 2009, 01:46:45 PM
~~~~~
OK from BNM's news post we can track info coming from an article by Anoop Gantayat (*IGN* Japan correspondent a decade ago, I do remember his name; suspicious journalism) who is REPORTING on a Nihon Keizai Shimbun REPORT.
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2009/10/27/nintendo_ds_push/
and the key quote:
--"With the larger screen size, Nintendo aims to expand use for the system to movies and digital books, and also spur demand amongst older audiences who might have considered the current screen hard to see. It also hopes to fend off stronger competition from Sony and Apple."
Elsewhere is a Reuters article that references the Nikkei Business Daily paper,
http://www.reuters.com/article/CMPTRS/idUST31442220091027
with the key quotes:
--"The new version will have a screen larger than 4 inches, which would put it roughly on a par with the screen on Sony Corp's (6758.T) PlayStation portable game player, the NIKKEI said."
--"A bigger screen alone does not count for much," said KBC *SECURITIES* *ANALYST* Hiroshi KAMIDE, adding that Nintendo needs better graphics quality and a more powerful chip to run multimedia-type games and become more competitive. "Nintendo is under pressure from iPhone and iTouch."
--"Nintendo's hand-held, which now has a 3.25-inch screen, is struggling against competition from Apple Inc's (AAPL.O) iPhone, whose screen is about the same size." [REALLY? DS IS FALTERING IN JAPAN? WHERE THE **** DID THIS INFO COME FROM?]
I don't know the exact source of the Nihon and the Nikkei, but I have a hunch that the Nihon report based on the Nikkei report, as I don't know where Nihon's Sony/Apple comments come from (LOL NOW I'M THE REPORTER WHO'S MAKING STUFF UP NOW). To further fart on this confusing cloud of stinky journalism, Sean Malstrom is saying Kamide is an idiot, an analyst who is commenting on a field he's not versed in.
http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/the-collapse-of-american-journalism/
Really, Internet. Am I to believe the standard for online journalism is GoNintendo's Report about a Report about a Report now?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 28, 2009, 01:50:58 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 28, 2009, 01:52:21 PM
WHen has DS been struggling against anything?
Ever since it launched, according to the media. i am serious
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 28, 2009, 01:54:55 PM
WHen has DS been struggling against anything?
Struggling against it's own success. Lets' just hope that the DSi doesn't turn to drugs and alcohol like so many other success stories do.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 28, 2009, 02:15:55 PM
The screen-scaling issue will definitely make DSi's current GPS navigation capabilities worse.
Post by: vudu on October 28, 2009, 04:30:15 PM
At the risk of repeating myself, in all the rumors I read there were two possible reasons for the device discussed... one was for older people, and the other was to better compete with other devices that feature larger screens. Again, I was focused on the assumption that the latter will prove true.
/sigh.
How long until Zap creates a thread in the Funhouse titled Why Pale Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)?
Post by: yoshi1001 on October 28, 2009, 08:25:36 PM
For 3-D games, they could also render the graphics at a higher resolution (say 640:480), then shrink them down to achieve interobject antialiasing (I've theorized HD consoles may end up doing this if TV resolutions don't increase). This would make the graphics look better by reducing the harsh edges at the edge of polygons.
Post by: King of Twitch on October 28, 2009, 08:47:59 PM
How long until Zap creates a thread in the Funhouse titled Why Pale Doesn't Get It (Regarding New DS Rumor)?
There's so much rumor and speculation, and lack of opportunity for casual-bashing that I don't even know what to comment on.
Post by: MegaByte on October 28, 2009, 09:43:11 PM
I don't know the exact source of the Nihon and the Nikkei, but I have a hunch that the Nihon report based on the Nikkei reportNihon Keizai Shimbun IS Nikkei.
If you want the original report, our own Matt Walker translated it for our story:
Nintendo to beef up portable game device in lieu of competition, Resistance to Apple in America
Nintendo is to beef up it's portable game device, the 'Nintendo DSi' both in country and overseas. Their latest device, the 'DSi' is be improved upon with larger screens and introduced into the domestic market within the year. The move is being done in order to stir up demand among older consumers as well as their younger, core audience. In 2009 Nintendo introduced their DSi with better restrictions against pirated software that had been fond in China and Korea. The device is to be expanded upon to compete with Sony and Apple who have been quickly catching up to Nintendo
One year after the DSi was first released to wild success it's sales have come to a slump. Monthly sales have leveled off at 1/3rd of what they were at their peak. Introducing a new device and new features will stimulate new sales.
The current DSi's screens are approximately 3.2 inches, nearly identical to that of Apple's popular 'iPhone'. The new variation of the DSi will feature screens that are closer to the size of Sony Computer Entertainment's portable game device, the 'Playstation Portable' at over 4 inches, and will be nearly twice the size of the screens of the current DSi.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 28, 2009, 10:23:31 PM
I said, Wow.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 28, 2009, 10:30:44 PM
Post by: Pale on October 29, 2009, 08:34:24 AM
But just to drive my point home of why Nintendo needs to start realizing that resolution matters, I crunched some more numbers this morning.
So the critical number I am looking at is PPI, or pixels per inch. I think the iPhone has a beautiful screen, so we will be using that as a baseline for what is possible in a device that small. It has a PPI of 163.
The DSi, has a PPI of 98. That's just 60% of what the iPhone does.
Now, this DSi LL has a PPI of 76. UGH! That's just 47%!
Want to see a rough example of what a 47% difference looks like?
(http://mikegamin.com/temp/DSLLvsiPhone.png)
But like I said, I will stop freaking out now that it appears it is not a replacement for the DSi. I just hope Nintendo takes the hint with their next portable, and has a competitive PPI.
Post by: that Baby guy on October 29, 2009, 09:04:25 AM
If you were doing a decent comparison, you'd stretch out the picture so that image A would be much smaller than image B, but every pixel would still be represented. Instead, you just decreased the number of pixels in image B, without any respect or concern to the fact that Image A and B should have the same number of pixels. The only thing accurate about image B is the size of the pixels, but as I said, the method you used isn't a suitable comparison at all!
What you did before, resizing the screens, was a much more accurate representation, and in most cases, the resolution:screen size ratio is something that doesn't look bad from the distance most people feel comfortable playing the DS, anyways.
Post by: Pale on October 29, 2009, 09:08:44 AM
If the image is displayed on a screen of lower resolution, (the image on the right) that screen has to interpolate what each pixel would be, thus lowering the resolution of the image.
I think you are the confused one here.
Post by: that Baby guy on October 29, 2009, 09:13:45 AM
What I'm saying is you're mock-up heavily implies that the DSi LL will cause pixel loss, as your picture represents. This is simply untrue in every facet of the idea.
Of course you're comparing it to the iPhone, but an image that consists of 150x150 pixels is an image that consists of 150x150 pixels, regardless of the PPI. The reasoning is still faulty to represent it any other way.
Post by: Pale on October 29, 2009, 09:21:21 AM
Post by: Pale on October 29, 2009, 09:23:26 AM
It is a hypothetical situation in which two screens of the same size but drastically different PPI's display the same image. It is an accurate representation of that. It just so happens that the difference in PPI between those two hypothetical screens is an equivalent ratio to the difference in PPI between the DS LL and the iPhone.
Post by: EasyCure on October 29, 2009, 10:46:13 AM
At the risk of repeating myself, in all the rumors I read there were two possible reasons for the device discussed... one was for older people, and the other was to better compete with other devices that feature larger screens. Again, I was focused on the assumption that the latter will prove true.
/sigh.
This is why i never read blogs in general. Let someone comment on your personal opinion on a subject and you take it way to personal when people disagree or miss the point entirely.
Poor Pale.
Post by: Pale on October 29, 2009, 11:24:24 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on October 29, 2009, 11:55:07 AM
Really, I do want a better screen, a sharp screen with tiny, itsy bitsy pixels. I completely agree with you, that's much much better than the DS screen is at the current size.
But... I don't want it to be a minor DS upgrade, on par with the DS lite, DSi, or DSi LL. Essentially, all I'm trying to say is I don't want to miss out just because I don't want to spend a $180-ish price tag to enter into a little segment of a market I'm basically already in, and if Nintendo did what you wanted at this point in time, it would be all the more reason to need to, as more games would come out utilizing larger pixel dimensions, etc.
So the difference in our opinions is simply that the next DS iteration with a great, sharp screen should be a serious upgrade, or at least offer something more substantial and serious beyond a few retail titles here and there and a library of mostly mediocre download games. If Nintendo offers a genuine successor to it's handheld lineage, then yeah, I'd love it, but that's not the DSi or the DSi LL. These two systems, to me, are the GameBoy Color of the DS world, a needless upgrade that will be completely outperformed and outdated, in a year or two.
But the DSi LL isn't that system, and to try to do that to the screens would just segment and confuse the market, in my opinion.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 29, 2009, 01:39:51 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 29, 2009, 01:59:34 PM
If the rumors are true and the next DS is gonna use a Nvidia Tegra chip (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=16688.msg556431#msg556431), I'm sure Nintendo will take resolution seriously since they are now acknowledging Sony & Apple as competitors now.
That scares me because I would hate to see handheld gaming go the Sony PSP route of 3D visuals for the most part over 2D.
Post by: D_Average on October 29, 2009, 02:14:06 PM
Post by: Pale on October 29, 2009, 02:18:25 PM
This is the wrong attitude. The right attitude is to hope that the system can handle great 3D, but developers and publishers stop being scared to make 2D games for a 3D capable system.If the rumors are true and the next DS is gonna use a Nvidia Tegra chip (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=16688.msg556431#msg556431), I'm sure Nintendo will take resolution seriously since they are now acknowledging Sony & Apple as competitors now.
That scares me because I would hate to see handheld gaming go the Sony PSP route of 3D visuals for the most part over 2D.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 29, 2009, 02:29:42 PM
My hope is this rumor is true. Along with the removal of the dreaded cartridge slot and then slooooowly releasing old games digitaly one week at a time. Obviously they would have to charge double but it would be well worth it.
But on a system with the Tegra Chip they would be capapble of handling everything that the current VC does with the addition of GC games too.
So I hope they up the VC for the DS2 to include your current library of VC games, plus access to GB/C/A, GC games and why not convert some PC & DC games too while your at it. Nintendo should push for games from every system that is not licensed to Sony, MS and Apple.
Post by: ShyGuy on October 29, 2009, 02:33:57 PM
(http://mikegamin.com/images/avatars/impailedAvatar100x100.png)
vs.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/shyguy70/impailedAvatar100x100.png)
Post by: vudu on October 29, 2009, 02:36:04 PM
This is why i never read the staff blog section :P
I agree. Let's tear every staff member a new asshole so they stop posting here. The forums becoming more insular will only benefit everyone!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 29, 2009, 02:38:36 PM
DSi'll get Lasik Later
DSi Livin' Large
Post by: vudu on October 29, 2009, 02:45:13 PM
We have to speculate on what the LL ind DSi LL satnds for.
It's DSi XL in Europe and America, so my guess is LL is just what Japan uses instead of XL for clothing, etc.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 29, 2009, 03:04:49 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on October 29, 2009, 03:06:26 PM
Post by: vudu on October 29, 2009, 03:08:06 PM
Post by: EasyCure on October 29, 2009, 03:45:08 PM
This is why i never read the staff blog section :P
I agree. Let's tear every staff member a new asshole so they stop posting here. The forums becoming more insular will only benefit everyone!
You are wrong in that assumption so i went back and clarified my post.
Post by: D_Average on October 29, 2009, 06:58:40 PM
Admit it Pale, the DSi Larger Large is hot. Hizz-ot.
(http://mikegamin.com/images/avatars/impailedAvatar100x100.png)
vs.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k302/shyguy70/impailedAvatar100x100.png)
Wow. The larger, more digitized Pale looks straight out of Mortal Kombat 2 for the Genesis. This is not progress.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on November 01, 2009, 07:25:46 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 01, 2009, 08:19:58 PM
Post by: Pale on June 07, 2010, 03:16:10 PM
The DSi XL has a PPI of 76. I can't freaking stand looking at it.
Back when I made this rant I used the iPhone screen as a benchmark for a great screen, which has a PPI of 163. The iPhone 4 will have...
326 Pixels Per Inch!!!.
I sincerely hope the 3DS will have at least 200 PPI in order to be somewhat relevant. If it has less than 100 I will throw up.
Post by: ShyGuy on June 07, 2010, 03:29:41 PM
Although, I have to give credit, I played with a DSi XL at Best Buy and it does look blocky.
Post by: Mop it up on June 07, 2010, 09:53:25 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 07, 2010, 09:59:12 PM
Post by: Stogi on June 08, 2010, 12:08:07 AM
I mean Apple gives me 326 licks per inch (LPI), so I sincerely hope Nintendo can match that. When I bought a DSi XL, I thought it was perfect for me, but it was so ugly I had to put a bag over it.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2010, 12:41:42 AM
There's no satisfying these tech nerds.
Post by: Stogi on June 08, 2010, 12:43:20 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 08, 2010, 01:06:14 AM
Post by: ThePerm on June 08, 2010, 02:35:54 AM
Post by: Pale on June 08, 2010, 09:53:00 AM
I don't think anyone but tech geeks care about the number of pixels, and that's mostly irrelevant to gaming anyway. What I'd like to see is a resolution increase, to make it equal to the standard television resolution of 640x480 (or whatever widescreen is, 800x480?).It's funny you say that because the entire reason HD TV looks better than standard def is because of more lines of resolution per inch. If all we did was make a 480p set 60% larger, it would have just looked like a huge grainy piece of crap.
Post by: Mop it up on June 08, 2010, 06:01:29 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2010, 07:15:46 PM
They used to make televisions like that, they looked fine to me.
Post by: ThePerm on June 19, 2010, 07:38:08 PM
