Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: BlkPaladin on April 19, 2003, 05:39:06 PM
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: BlkPaladin on April 19, 2003, 05:39:06 PM
Today in an article of Electronics Design Magazine. Sony's COO Ken stated that they won't be able to put the Cell Processor in the PS3, for the estimated release for the processor is now in 2007. Now to the Question what will they put in there, and this basically blows the rumors that the PS3 will be released in 2004 out of the water.
A bit of personally I told you so: I remember saying that Sony and IBM will not be able to make it by 2005, because a project such as that always experiences delays.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: SmellySocks on April 19, 2003, 08:05:41 PM
Yep, I read that also. Makes me wonder what in the world they'll be putting in the PS3. For Sony's sake, I hope they put something that is easier to develop for (not any of that dual-processor stuff). And let's hope Nintendo keeps the hardware nice and simple again.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 20, 2003, 02:05:19 AM
One abbreviation.... ROFLMFAO!
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: oohhboy on April 20, 2003, 04:09:20 AM
Maybe Mcguyver can whack up something for them in time. But seriosly, this is a serious problem. Now that we know that the Cell can't be used in the PS3, they now have less development time to create a new console to release 2005ish as nintendo and MS are likely to release then. This could be the mistake that Nintendo and MS has been waiting for to gain market dominance.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: PIAC on April 20, 2003, 05:14:52 AM
surely they would be smart enough to have a plan B though? i mean.. everyone has a plan B! its almost more important than plan A
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: SmellySocks on April 20, 2003, 08:16:24 AM
Who ever said that the Cell processor was what they were planning on using anyway? I believe that that was only the press speaking for them. I'm sure they have something nice planned for their next system.
LoL :::Thinks about Emotion Engine 2::: LoL
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Koopa Troopa on April 20, 2003, 09:14:28 AM
No, Sony said it was what it was going to use.
Folks like Tim Sweeney, were talking about it too; mostly about how extremely difficult it would be to program.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: BlkPaladin on April 20, 2003, 09:31:23 PM
I will be tricky to program for if you want to get the most of its power. There was also specualation that there was going to be more than one on board which multiple processors get tricky to program for, so I have heard. And to take full advantage of the cell over a network you would have to program for such scalibility. (I think that is the word..)
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 21, 2003, 03:16:02 AM
Ya...there is a guy at another forum who has put up a decent arguement that cell will in some shape or form be on the PS3, but it really doesn't look like it wil be. Oh well, have to see whats on there.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: BlkPaladin on April 21, 2003, 08:40:35 AM
You it doesn't stop that a derivitive of the Cell processor will be in the PS3. Because their was a announcment last night in Tokyo that the Cel prosessor will be done in time for the PS3, which probally means its a dumbed down version. mjb
Note: It seems it not the Cell processor that will be in the machine, the Reuters article is worded very vaguly but it does mention the Cell once in the article but it also mention a processsor built with so and so manufacturing processes and doesn't not say it is the cell what's more the chip is for the PS2.....
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: SmellySocks on April 21, 2003, 08:45:10 AM
They probably would have used a dumbed-down version anyway. Anyone know how expensive the Cell would be?
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: BlkPaladin on April 21, 2003, 09:07:45 AM
The Reuters article mentions 1.2 Billion dollars in the next few years, but I think that's total investments in all chips, they have already made a sizable contribution to the Cell. The first article I link said that the three companies planned to spend $400 million over five years (2005) on the Cell, but if it takes longer that cost will go up.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: oohhboy on April 22, 2003, 02:45:21 AM
IMO I believe that CELL or a version of it would not be suitabl for gaming. it may hav big numbers, but that wa what the PS2 has and look what that turned out like from a programing POV.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 22, 2003, 11:01:28 AM
Eh? last time I checked the EE only has 4 MB of video RAM. It causes a lot of bottlenecks just in its physical design. And how can you judge two things that are only related because they are made by the same company? It just isn't too logical.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: SmellySocks on April 22, 2003, 03:08:07 PM
ooohboy----The CELL processor has some excellent network capabilities. If gaming companies are serious about putting their systems online, that is the perfect processor to do it with. Imagine the ability to share your great connection and resources among multiple users to help stabilize (reduce lag) on the network. If Sony uses a version of this, I will be greatly impressed.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 22, 2003, 04:38:50 PM
Its not the problem with the protocol, its a problem with the network speed. 500k is not going to be able to do ANYTHING for stable networking conditions, nor would it do anything for the sharing side of it.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: ThePerm on April 22, 2003, 08:57:14 PM
the next leap in graphcis is gonna be crazy.....but what about the leap after that!?!
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: oohhboy on April 23, 2003, 03:11:25 AM
I don't see how having any particular processor at all would reduce lag by itself. Lag is caused by delays in the data from getting from point A to point A. Delays ranging from lost packets, insuffient international bandwidth, server overload to computer being too slow to send the data. As you said 500K is nothing over a network to play with.
The cell is like having multiple cpus on one chip instead of on one mother board. that maysound great, but you still have to give instructions to each individual chip and you would have to make everything paralle. Gaming is not something that runs in paraelle. The conditions are always changing. You fire your gun. the program jumps to a new loop of instrustions and then has to jump back. This happens every frame. It would be extreamly ineffecenit processor to use for gaming. The paralle design would be great for code breaking snce that is a big loop of non-changing instructions. It may have big numbers, but for partical gaming use. No thanks.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: The Doc on April 25, 2003, 05:06:00 AM
Hmmm, I too wonder what Sony will use as a processor for their PS3 hardware. I do not have a lot of experience with Sony's consoles or what hardware they usually use in these consoles, however don't they usually design their own processors for their consoles? I take it the Emotion Engine was of Sony's own design, and if I am wrong then let me know. If this announcement is fact rather then fiction then Sony is in high water and they need to figure something out fast. The video game industry is very unforgiving and one mistake can really hurt you in the long run, for example, Nintendo's N64 hardware which used cartridge media instead of DVD media. In my opinon, Sony has not been in the console market long enough to where they can afford to make a mistake such as this one.
The Doc
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 25, 2003, 05:20:36 AM
Quote Originally posted by: ThePerm the next leap in graphcis is gonna be crazy.....but what about the leap after that!?!
Actually it's not going to be as big as you think. Things might look a little smoother, but really, you can only use so much power. Videogames are getting to the point where graphics have peaked. Maybe 5-10 years down the road, raytracing will be possible in realtime, and you can get some nice eye candy going on without too much work, but at the moment, I don't think that you will be seeing much of an improvement in graphics.
I personally don't see a need to replace the GameCube yet, but I understand why Nintendo is required to do so.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 25, 2003, 02:10:10 PM
You won't be able to tell the difference? Eh, trust me you will very well. Its been less than two years since consoles were pretty far up there and they are already blown away by a lot of PC games.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 25, 2003, 02:34:21 PM
Really? I have a fairly modern PC, and I have yet to see something better than Metroid Prime or Legend of Zelda on PC. There's Doom 3 I suppose, but really, I don't see much of a difference, and it's not even out yet anyways.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 25, 2003, 05:46:42 PM
Unreal Tournement 2003 is all I have to say. I run it at 1600x1200 all settings maxed out. The difference is amazing.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Locke Cole on April 25, 2003, 05:49:14 PM
Also play regular Unreal 2, that has great graphics, heard the AI was flawed though. Don't argue about PC's not being better then consoles. You'll never win, cause PC's are always upgraded and always get better and better.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 25, 2003, 07:21:17 PM
Grey Ninja is right. the graphical leap won't be as big as you think. sure, the graphics will look better, with models having a higher poly count, and maybe anti-alaising at 60fps (*drools*), but there's so much time and effort the developers can put into the graphics. development cost has skyrocketed from the 8 and 16bit days.
don't expect a big leap in graphics folks.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 26, 2003, 05:27:11 AM
Eh, have you failed to see that they have a lot of model compilers now? Do you honestly think that models like Doom 3, cannot be done again with minor engine tweaks? This was shown off less than 1 year after the consoles launched and it can barely even be handled by xbox, let alone gcn and ps2. The leap will be noticable, despite what nintendo tells you.
As for AA, there are still 7 or 8 filters out there that will be implemented in the future, so if anything, things will look much smoother.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: oohhboy on April 26, 2003, 07:29:04 AM
Well, I won't be caught holding my breath over it anyway. When technology has advanced enough to produce a large noticable difference, I will bite. UT2k3 Does not look "that" good. They have pumped up the graphics abit, but gameplay wise it is same old, same old. That is why I am still playing CS. More fun.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 26, 2003, 09:56:15 AM
Well then why did you even bring up the point of you can't tell what it looks like? And I haven't seen ANY console game look better than UT2003 right now. If you want to pull in RE4, well then we might as well say Doom3.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Grey Ninja on April 26, 2003, 02:16:16 PM
Guys, I am not debating that Unreal Tournament 2k3 looks awesome, and better than anything on consoles.
But is it the big leap you were all talking about?
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Locke Cole on April 26, 2003, 03:21:24 PM
Yeah I guess your right about Unreal Tournament, but Doom 3 is looking really good right now. Same with Deus Ex 2, they both have great graphics and Deus Ex 2 is using special software that lets them program different sounds depending on different situations. Let's say you threw a bottle on the floor. Depending on what type of floor it is will take in effect what noise it makes, if it lands on cardboard it will change as well. I'm not really looking for a graphical leap in the next console games, but more of a sound leap and details.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Cooolcorey on April 26, 2003, 06:36:51 PM
As a budding programmer myself, I can see improvments in graphics, but the biggest improvement will be in processor speed, where not just graphics but the calculations that are performed to produce gameplay are made. This will open up completely new possibilities in gaming. I can't think of an example right now, but that's what's comming up. Also, you'd need more RAM for higher quality textures, faster BUS speeds, and maybe a bigger disk medium, but those have all been standard upgrades so far.
And now that I think about the PS3 having Cell technology and how developers won't be able to do multiplatform with the PS3, wouldn't that make it hard for Sony to have it be backwards compatible for the PSX and PS2?
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 27, 2003, 07:20:46 AM
Thats where the significance of combining the EE and GS comes into play...
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: EggyToast on April 27, 2003, 07:57:22 AM
Except that the PS3 won't be using the Cell processor, Corey. And exactly -- a move like that would seriously hurt playstation's 3rd party support (which is all it has anyway).
The big leap will mean you have screenshots like you see for Halo 2, but instead of only having 1 or 2 enemies on the screen at a time due to processor limitations, you'll be able to be swarmed by a legion of them, all moving independently.
Or pikmin with pores and features (clothes!). a limit of 1000 pikmin on the board at once! hehe
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 27, 2003, 08:31:34 AM
Eh, no one really knows if it will use cell yet, it is still up in the air. The possiblity is still there.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: EggyToast on April 27, 2003, 10:43:24 AM
Well, sure, they could postpone the PS3 until 2007, when the chip is speculated to be finalized in the development stage. And then rush together both an OS for the system as well as a slew of development tools for 3rd parties, and then release the console with no games and wait a year or 2 for developers to quickly rush a port together using a new technology that they are not skilled in.
Right...
Or you could believe the spokespeople from Sony who say that they won't be using it. Which is where I'm putting my money.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 27, 2003, 01:31:28 PM
Sony also claimed that the EE would not be used. Also, that was a big IT MAY NOT, it was by no means defining. As it is Toshiba received a contract to build cell chips which would be operational before 2004. There is just too much contridicting evidence to defintively say yes it will or, no it will not. Unless you care to show me dockets that would say no it will not be done absolutely not, more power to you, but you would be hard pressed to find anything that says definitely no.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: oohhboy on April 29, 2003, 08:11:42 AM
Are you suggesting that Sony will pull off another shotgun style launch as they did with the PS2? The thing that will be different would be the competition. Sony cannot do that without hurting itself in a major way as Nintendo or Microsoft launching at the same time with thier repective consoles with a proper launch libary and deve tools. That is just asking for it. Just my Hype and BS filter on.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: EggyToast on April 29, 2003, 08:22:24 AM
Exactly. The PS2 was huge at launch and in a lot of demand because you coudln't find it anywhere. But imagine how its launch would've been if it had both GC AND XBox to compete with. Dead in the water!
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 29, 2003, 09:17:23 AM
How did we get from, No you don't know if cell will be in there or not, to PS3 will be dead in the water? They were hard to find because sony pulled it that way just as N64, SNES, and DC were. It's a market ploy to create hype. That had some to do with the fact that PS2 was rushed out, but more to do with Sony held back shipments. As for the lack of games, can't really argue sony wasn't stupid about their launch, but then again I doubt they would risk a launch like the last.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: EggyToast on April 29, 2003, 01:11:47 PM
Sony held back shipments because they were under-producing the units -- they couldn't make any more due to chip shortages. It may have been hype, but they certainly couldn't've pulled such a bone-headed move if they had 2 other comparable-if-not-better systems to go up against.
Most analysts and gamers agree that Sony really dropped the ball on the PS2 launch: bad launch games, extreme shortage of hardware, faulty hardware. But since they had over a year to sort it out until MS and Nintendo came up with their next gen systems, they had a safety net.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: BlkPaladin on May 01, 2003, 01:37:09 AM
Out of the N64, SNES(?), and Dreamcast the only console that had a chance of competing with the PS2 was the Dreamcast, and Sega with its debt load was unable to fully give the console proper exposure to fight the hype that the PS2 was before launch, and then the next month it announced it was droping the console to program for its competitors. The N64 had an untimely death because of the bad timing Nintendo had with announcing their next system. And the SNES in the US, and Japan was a dead system (now offical publishers were making games for the system.)
And if Sony does a quick change right before its release it stands to face another PS2 with critical componet shortages. And with two other competors with consoles coming out of the gates soon after it Sony won't have a leasurily time correcting the problems and lose users.
Title: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Samwise Gamgee on May 06, 2003, 01:33:27 PM
i'm not reading this whole post so....
i always knew they werent gonna use the cell! and i dont think sony ever intended on using the cell! they knew they were making it, but knew it wouldnt be ready in time! BUT in order to get the word around on the ps3, they talked aboutthe cell and how it'll be amazing! now, once all the talk and attention about the cell is over, they quietly slide in and say that they cant get the cell to work in that time! but people who havnt followed n e of the news still think the ps3 is gonna be this monster machine with a crazy processor that can live your life for you!
Title: RE: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: Andu_Tros on May 18, 2003, 06:00:18 PM
ummm...I guess I'm really out of the technology loop. Can someone please explain what the "Cell Processor" is for me?
Title: RE: The processor question thickens. (PS3 and the Cell Processor)
Post by: oohhboy on May 19, 2003, 01:45:22 AM
