NWR Interactive => Podcast Discussion => Topic started by: Jonnyboy117 on July 04, 2009, 01:35:29 PM
Title: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on July 04, 2009, 01:35:29 PM
Please use this thread to discuss our next game, Ninja Spirit for TurboGrafx-16. You can download it from Virtual Console and play along with the RFN crew and other listeners!
Comments in this thread may be excerpted and read on the Radio Free Nintendo podcast when we have our RetroActive segment(s) about Ninja Spirit. Please keep this thread on topic.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: vudu on July 05, 2009, 11:59:23 AM
The game is a little more "old school" than what I had anticipated, but I'm enjoying it very much.
After playing Ninja Spirit for 30 seconds, my initial reaction was Oh no, I made a horrible mistake! The game seemed a bit stiff and rudimentary. You run up to people and hit them with your sword. I questioned all the praise I had heard about the game. (Oh no, I thought--could GoldenPhoenix actually have been right?!) I beat the first level and was pretty disappointed. However, after getting stuck on the boss of the second level for quite some time, I checked the Operation Guide and discovered that you have have three other weapons at your disposal! Suddenly, a whole new game opened up--one with lots of exciting possibilities. ;D
I've found that the ninja stars are pretty useless. I don't see why anyone would choose them over the awesome power of the bombs. I was stuck on the second boss for the longest time trying to beat him with my sword. After I switched to bombs he was significantly easier (although still one of the trickier bosses). I haven't found the appeal of the grappling hook. It's slow and has a limited range. What's the point of this weapon? I've been able to swing it around a few times, but not with any reliability.
The ability to jump the equivalent of 30 feet in the air is fun--no one can deny that. I also like the shadow ability. Having two copies of yourself mimicking your every move can lay waste to bosses if you position them right. For example, on the boss of the first level, if you jump straight up and then don't move, your clones will hover in the air right next to the boss' head. You can destroy him in about 4 seconds.
The difficulty level seems to be all over the place. As I said previously, the boss of the second level is extremely frustrating because he can beat you in one hit. He flies around the screen and can be difficult to avoid since your jumps are so floaty. However, after beating him I got past the third level in a single life. The first half of the fourth level is the most difficult part of the entire game (so far--I'm only up to level 5). There's a really neat gravity mechanic, but there are loads of enemies who pop in that can kill you in one hit. But once you get past them the rest of the level (including the boss) is a cake walk.
Even though it's a sixteen bit game, I don't really see anything here that couldn't be done on the original NES. The animations are extremely limited--the walking animation for your character looks to be about two frames. The music is pretty basic. There are a good number of enemies on screen at the same time, which is fairly impressive for 1990. It might be a case of 'you had to play it back in the day'. It's a fun game, and I don't regret playing it, but it hasn't held up as well as some other games from the time.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on July 05, 2009, 12:36:19 PM
I've only played the first level so far, but it was enjoyable. I figured out the weapon selection quickly and had a lot of fun with finding the best one for each kind of enemy. The weapons give it a Gunstar Heroes vibe, though not quite as fast. I mention on RFN 152 that the game appears to be a cross between Ninja Gaiden and a shmup, and now that I've actually played some of it, I think that observation was right on.
It does seem to be a mix of 8-bit and 16-bit elements, which is a common theme for TG-16 games. That system and most of its games seemed to be a bridge between generations.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: vudu on July 06, 2009, 09:16:30 PM
I beat the game tonight. Once I started using nothing but bombs the game became a cake walk.
The hardest part of the game hands down is the section leading up to the final boss. I had to laugh to keep from breaking my controller. I eventually was forced to resort to an FAQ--the only one on GameFAQS--just to get past it (and even then it was really tough). Luckily, there's a check point right before so you can replay it as many times as necessary to get it down.
My final high score was 233,800.
Since the bombs made the game so easy (I could defeat most bosses in under 10 seconds, including the final boss) I'm going to go back and try again using the other weapons.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: adadad on July 07, 2009, 09:25:12 AM
I have a feeling with this game that it's going to be the falling section in right before the final boss that puts people off. It's the only time where the cheap arcade kill label really applies but I can only imagine how frustrating that would be in the arcade without the benefit of being able to pause and check GameFAQs.
If anyone can make it past that point without looking up how first I'll be extremely impressed!
Anyway my favourite bit of the game was that boss who chases you up and down the trees in the forest level. Aside from that though, I didn't find there to be much memorable about this game - perhaps the explanation for the lack of a sequel. As pointed out the TG16 generally feels like a halfway point between generations, and this game similarly works as a mid-generation bridge between Ninja Gaiden and Shinobi.
Also Jonny your comparison to a shmup makes sense as this game was from Irem, who are of course most notable for the R-Type series.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on July 08, 2009, 10:43:04 PM
Thoughts on the four weapons (hopefully will spur more discussion before we record RFN):
Sword is quite strong and keeps enemies and shots away from you with the wide arc. The upgrade gives it decent range. Works well with the rapid fire button (B trigger if using Remote only).
Shuriken seem weak, but they fire quickly and may be useful for weak enemies who fly in from all directions. The upgrade gives you a three-way shot with much better coverage.
Bombs are very powerful, with excellent range. They are slow until upgraded, when they become insanely overpowered. You can plant them on the ground like mines, but this seems mostly useless.
Hook is great for clearing the screen quickly. Press a direction immediately after firing to swing it around; it takes a little practice but is very effective. You have to think harder to use this weapon, but it can pay off. The upgrade seems to make it longer (?).
I was stuck on the second boss (tree climber) for a while, but rapid fire swords finally did the job. It's more important to dodge than to hit him.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: gojira on July 08, 2009, 11:00:02 PM
I came into this game kinda expecting a lot. I'm a big fan of what IREM did back in the day. I love the R-Type series and Metal Storm on the NES is my favorite game from that system. I'm also a huge sucker for 'hidden gem' type games.
But unlike R-Type and Metal Storm, I really felt the controls in Ninja Spirit left a lot to be desired. You seem to move so slow, so you want to constantly jump to move faster. But the jump is very floaty and can make you very vulnerable. As far as the weapons go I tend to use either the bombs or hook. The hook is great for a wide range attack, and it also deflects projectiles easily. And as already noted, the bombs are pretty devastating. I've also used the sword on a few occasions such as against bosses. The Shuriken seem to be for experienced players who just want to show off.
The arcade roots of the game are pretty apparent with the difficulty of some sections. Sure the 'PC Engine Mode' gives you a life bar. But coming into physical contact with an enemy in an instant kill. And certain enemies' weapons is also an instant kill. I'll just say that my neighbors in my apartment building probably think I have turrets after playing through certain parts. With the respawning enemies, I ended up just trying to rush through the stages as quickly as possible. Which made the levels easier, but I didn't really feel like I was enjoying them.
But there are parts of the game that are total kick ass. I had a lot of fun with the level where there are kite guys are coming at you from the sky. It's right after the mountain-ish level where to need to move to the top of the level (which was very frustrating due to the floaty controls). Something clicked about that level where I was jumping around shooting enemies left and right, and it felt very good. Maybe going back to the earlier levels will be more fun, having now gained knowledge of how to play the game better.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: vudu on July 09, 2009, 12:34:28 PM
I was stuck on the second boss (tree climber) for a while, but rapid fire swords finally did the job. It's more important to dodge than to hit him.
Is there a dodge button, too!? Or did you just mean dodge and in jump away from him?
I'm really impressed that you beat the second boss with your sword. I tried this for the longest time with no success.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: Yoshidious on July 09, 2009, 01:37:03 PM
I think TG-16 games have rapid fire functionality as standard because the old TG-16 joypads had turbo buttons above the two main buttons. I also defeated the second boss using the sword, I think that helped make it one of the more interesting boss encounters I've had playing the game so far (up to the end of stage 6).
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 09, 2009, 03:00:19 PM
It does seem to be a mix of 8-bit and 16-bit elements, which is a common theme for TG-16 games. That system and most of its games seemed to be a bridge between generations.
This because the TG-16 is technically an 8-bit system. Like the Wii is essentially a tricked-out GameCube, the TG-16 is essentially a tricked-out 8-bit system.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 09, 2009, 03:07:07 PM
It has been a couple of months since torturing myself with this game but I recall the majority of the levels are pretty standard in that you move forward and slash slightly different colored enemies. The boss fights may have 3 different ways of attacking MAX. And the final boss sits there and throws green fire balls at you. The game was so uninspired and boring I really cannot remember more then 2 of the boss fights, and those two I remember because they were extremely tedious and boring (Like one that can be beaten by jumping over its head and slashing which is repeated until it dies while it moves as slow as a snail).
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 09, 2009, 08:25:51 PM
Ninja Spirit is the quintessential quarter-muncher style game to me. Nothing too interesting, annoyingly hard in some areas (and then once you figure out the secret, it's ridiculously easy)...meh.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: adadad on July 09, 2009, 09:00:22 PM
By the way I just wanted to mention the fantastic opening, the defining part of the game for me. Minimalist main menu with the slightly eerie music, press Run and therein lies a cutscene of epic proportions, the music slowly fading as the piss-streaked lightning closes on our hero, and from nowhere, a lone wolf rushes onto the scene, pauses for a second along with the music when suddenly the earsplitting, crackly sound of HAVING A LOBOTOMY-----
OWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: adadad on July 12, 2009, 09:53:34 PM
Just listened to the segment in the new RFN, and was surprised at how much discussion you guys managed to have about it. Because I played this when it arrived on the VC I had already been through the game several times and returning to it made almost no additional impression on me. Ultimately I found the podcast discussion slightly redundant, because as far as I'm concerned the game can be breezed through simply by using the bombs all the time while hitting fire and making small jumps continuously whilst holding right on the D-pad. It's not just that the bosses that are unmemorable, but it is the sheer lack of level design, the reckless-behaviour-inducing life number, and perhaps it is my fault for not challenging myself to take on a higher challenge or the arcade mode, but as it stands I wish I'd been bothered to vote in the poll for Cho Aniki. At least that game is satisfying to replay, in large part due to its consistent difficulty curve and a fantastic soundtrack.
The howl I mentioned in my last post is of course, fantastic, but aurally and in most other areas Ninja Spirit leaves plenty to be desired.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: gojira on July 13, 2009, 11:49:19 AM
I finally got passed my stumbling block and beat the game.
Going off what I said before, I'm a little more used to the controls. You still move kinda slow and you can't move while attacking so you still jump around a lot. But I learned to tap the floaty jump to allow for a kind of regular jump. That made the game a lot easier to play.
Going back to play through again is fun, but not sensational. The game is a better shooter than it is a platformer. So there's more of an emphasis on getting upgrades and keeping them as opposed to navigating the environment. The shuriken are very strong and fun when fully upgraded. But I tend to fall back on the bombs when it gets difficult.
As far as the bosses go, it seems Irem had a different approach than a lot of companies. The first half of the bosses in Metal Storm all had exploits so you could beat them without a chance of getting hit. But unlike Ninja Spirit, the later bosses were very well done. Of course Metal Storm was made after Ninja Spirit, so that might explain the improvements.
I can see why TG-16 owners loved this game back in the day. But I don't think it has aged particularly well.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: Crimm on July 15, 2009, 11:20:40 PM
FYI: Fell asleep trying to play this game.
Seriously.
You people need to vote better!
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 16, 2009, 03:08:42 AM
It's Vudu's fault you fell asleep.He nomanated it.
No it is Stratos's fault for voting for it and giving it the lead
But if Vudu didn't nomanate it Stratos wouldn't have an chance of voting for it and Crimm wouldn't of fell asleep.
You really shouldn't let stratos get off that easily!
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 16, 2009, 04:43:16 AM
GP this is an argument that no one is going to win.
Ok back to the subject at hand.
I got this when it was released on the VC and I really don't enjoy the game that much. Sure the bosses are ok but it doesn't really help the games cause much.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: TAYREL713 on July 16, 2009, 11:36:13 AM
I have had this game since the day it was released on VC. I can still not get past the tree boss, tried again a couple of nights back to add to this conversation. Somebody give me soem advice, and whats this I hear about switching weapons?
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 16, 2009, 12:35:33 PM
I have had this game since the day it was released on VC. I can still not get past the tree boss, tried again a couple of nights back to add to this conversation. Somebody give me soem advice, and whats this I hear about switching weapons?
The odd thing is that I don't remember the tree boss being that hard, I think I died maybe once or twice on it that is it. Sadly I can't remember how I beat it.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: vudu on July 16, 2009, 02:16:39 PM
I have had this game since the day it was released on VC. I can still not get past the tree boss, tried again a couple of nights back to add to this conversation. Somebody give me soem advice, and whats this I hear about switching weapons?
Press the minus key to change weapons. If you use the bombs the second boss is a cake walk (especially if you have two shadows).
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: TAYREL713 on July 18, 2009, 11:36:43 AM
Two years after copping it, I am finally past stupid Tree Boss, and the tall ninja boss after. Once again the game is fun and I am excited to be playing it. Switching weapons, who knew? Well clearly Vudu did so shouts out to him for the advice. I am at the board where you can jump and stick to the ceiling, I keep mis timing my jumps and ending up on the bamboo, but I am having a ball.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on July 19, 2009, 03:35:08 PM
There must be something wrong with me, because I really do like this game. The difficulty and level/enemy designs are all over the place, but when they work, they work really well. The "crushing box" boss is awesome, and the kite dudes are great too. Again I will make the comparison to Treasure -- every level feels different, and every boss feels different. This game would have blown my mind in 1990, but I am still having a lot of fun with it in 2009.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: TAYREL713 on July 19, 2009, 07:16:21 PM
The box boss was pretty dang cool, took me about six or seven tries but in the end the box got wrapped or some other such pun. Ooooh, how bout, that box got recycled!
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: vudu on July 19, 2009, 09:19:06 PM
I beat both the kite boss and the box boss on the first try. I didn't really get to see them very much because they died almost instantly. You're ridiculously over-powered when you have two clones and upgraded bombs.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: TAYREL713 on July 20, 2009, 06:48:17 AM
Where as when I finally took the box to the curb (see what I did there) I was a lone ninja, though I still used bombs.
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 20, 2009, 04:07:27 PM
The box boss was pretty dang cool, took me about six or seven tries but in the end the box got wrapped or some other such pun. Ooooh, how bout, that box got recycled!
You know you have problems with a game's boss designs when you hear the term "the box boss was pretty dang cool".
Title: Re: RFN RetroActive #7 - Ninja Spirit Discussion
Post by: vudu on July 20, 2009, 05:05:41 PM
Mega Man 2 sucks because of the bubble boss. Just sayin'.
