Survival Horror is a more crowded genre than rail shooters on the Wii.
Good ones on the other hand are few and far between (though hopefully that will change).
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: stevey on April 13, 2009, 10:20:14 PM
If and only if there is hawtness! Otherwise, just give me LM2 as a standard E10 affair...
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on April 13, 2009, 11:22:41 PM
No it should have the same excellent charm of the first one.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: TJ Spyke on April 13, 2009, 11:38:07 PM
If it was a M-rated survival horror game, it would ruin the feel of the original and would not be the same game. I also see no chance in hell of Nintendo making a M-rated Mario game. So I don't want it to happen and I think it is safe to say it will never happen.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 14, 2009, 12:21:17 AM
I thought this thread was going to be Should Luigi's Mansion get a play on the Wii port and I was going to say HELL YES!!!
Specially if they can add some levels/puzzles to it.
Should Luigi's Mansion get a sequel even though it was not well received? HELL YES!!!!
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Khushrenada on April 14, 2009, 02:00:39 AM
Yes. Yes it should.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Stratos on April 14, 2009, 05:06:27 AM
Rated M for Monkeys. There were not enough in the first game.
There is a lot of potential for a Mansion sequel on Wii.
I haven't seen any videos but the Ghostbusters game should be a similar game where you suck up ghosts.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 14, 2009, 05:08:48 AM
Oh yeah, give Mario a gun and have him shoot hookers... It worked great for Shadow, right?
Seriously, turning a cheery franchise grim and gritty may sound cool at first but five minutes later you'll wonder what made you even consider that retarded idea. I thought this nonsensical worship of the M rating had died with the Gamecube but it seems that some people are still not over the fact that nobody except the 12-24 age bracket gives a **** about "kiddie" games and many people outside of that bracket are even repulsed by excessive violence. Of course you're not going to hear that on the internet because the kids-that-want-to-be-men are the majority here and make it seem like any significant number of people actually wants franchises to get butchered like that.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Stogi on April 14, 2009, 11:02:03 AM
This is a joke right? RIGHT?!
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Spinnzilla on April 14, 2009, 11:36:34 AM
And the final battle can be incorporate the wiispeak device. You have a vocal battle with Queen Boo via Aristocrats joke face off.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: EasyCure on April 14, 2009, 12:30:21 PM
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on April 14, 2009, 12:46:45 PM
I'm hoping it's a joke too. wtf
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 14, 2009, 12:56:20 PM
Luigi's Mansion 2 should simply be titled Luigi's Mansions. It should heavily feature the Poltergust 9000, which can transform from a vacuum into a go kart, jet pack, or enormous mecha. Luigi will have to fight the crazed ghosts of all of his friends, including Peach and Mario, to force them back into their bodies. Putting them back will require completing a CPR minigame. Luigi will also regularly run across an overly friendly ghost dog who will lick his face, sliming him, whenever they meet. Over the game, Luigi will go from fearing the dog to being annoyed, to finally starting to like him and giving him treats. In the end, the dog will be turned into a horrible demon, and Luigi will have to put it down, Ol' Yeller style. The traumatic experience will leave Luigi scarred for life, and instead of being cowardly, all future appearances of Luigi in Mario games will depict him as an amoral killer. In fact, he'll off Bowser for good and become the bad guy for all future Mario games. Instead of kidnapping princesses, his motivation will be to bulldoze the Mushroom Kingdom and build more mansions.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: EasyCure on April 14, 2009, 01:02:29 PM
Luigi's Mansion 2 should simply be titled Luigi's Mansions. It should heavily feature the Poltergust 9000, which can transform from a vacuum into a go kart, jet pack, or enormous mecha. Luigi will have to fight the crazed ghosts of all of his friends, including Peach and Mario, to force them back into their bodies. Putting them back will require completing a CPR minigame. Luigi will also regularly run across an overly friendly ghost dog who will lick his face, sliming him, whenever they meet. Over the game, Luigi will go from fearing the dog to being annoyed, to finally starting to like him and giving him treats. In the end, the dog will be turned into a horrible demon, and Luigi will have to put it down, Ol' Yeller style. The traumatic experience will leave Luigi scarred for life, and instead of being cowardly, all future appearances of Luigi in Mario games will depict him as an amoral killer. In fact, he'll off Bowser for good and become the bad guy for all future Mario games. Instead of kidnapping princesses, his motivation will be to bulldoze the Mushroom Kingdom and build more mansions.
What was that persona he had in Super Paper Mario? Thats what i'm picturing when i read the last part of your post.
Luigi's Mansion 2 should simply be titled Luigi's Mansions. It should heavily feature the Poltergust 9000, which can transform from a vacuum into a go kart, jet pack, or enormous mecha. Luigi will have to fight the crazed ghosts of all of his friends, including Peach and Mario, to force them back into their bodies. Putting them back will require completing a CPR minigame. Luigi will also regularly run across an overly friendly ghost dog who will lick his face, sliming him, whenever they meet. Over the game, Luigi will go from fearing the dog to being annoyed, to finally starting to like him and giving him treats. In the end, the dog will be turned into a horrible demon, and Luigi will have to put it down, Ol' Yeller style. The traumatic experience will leave Luigi scarred for life, and instead of being cowardly, all future appearances of Luigi in Mario games will depict him as an amoral killer. In fact, he'll off Bowser for good and become the bad guy for all future Mario games. Instead of kidnapping princesses, his motivation will be to bulldoze the Mushroom Kingdom and build more mansions.
I always assumed that if Luigi ever did snap and become evil it would be because of his brother hogging all the attention.
But I don't want Luigi to be evil.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Ian Sane on April 14, 2009, 02:57:35 PM
An M-rated Mario game would be idiotic. Anyone (who isn't a complete dolt anyway) who asks for Nintendo to create M-rated content obviously means new content, not taking what is already there and completely overhauling it. No one wants to change Mario or Kirby or Pikachu. They just want more than that.
M-rated Mario is the strawman argument used by the "Nintendo is always right" crowd against those that suggest that Nintendo provide more variety by making games that cater more to the tastes of older gamers. It's the old "What, you want Mario killing hookers?!" crap.
I'm sure someone will bring up Zelda. I maintain that cel-shaded Zelda was the change. The request for "mature Zelda" was merely requesting that Nintendo bring back the style they had already established. And in the end we didn't get blood-and-guts M-rated Zelda. Link didn't kill hookers, Zelda didn't prance around in g-string, and the music wasn't replaced with heavy metal or hip hop. Just like Metroid and Fire Emblem and the N64 Zelda games we got a game that still felt very much like Nintendo, just with a graphic style that isn't so cutesy and takes itself a little more seriously.
For a Luigi's Mansion sequel I think it would work well as Wii-Ware. The original game was fun but just lacking in value. It was a total rental game and these days we might as well use Wii-Ware for games like that. No point charging $50 for a weekend of gameplay with no replay value. But Luigi's Mansion's greatest flaw was always that it was just a poor choice as the flagship title for a launch. It wasn't the right kind of game to try to use to sell consoles.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 14, 2009, 03:20:08 PM
Also, partway into the game, Luigi is mutilated in an attack and the only way E. Gadd can save his life is by fusing him with the Poltergust, making him a cyborg. Then you can use the money you collect to buy upgrades for Luigi's body like missile launchers, shields, and giant subwoofers, but only after you clear the ghosts out of the auto body shop. You can also give him custom paint jobs after you clear the paint shop and buy new clothes after you clear the clothing store.
You can also find the four legendary Vacuums of Power and merge with them to form Luigitron, but only in certain boss battles.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 14, 2009, 03:24:42 PM
M-rated Mario is the strawman argument used by the "Nintendo is always right" crowd against those that suggest that Nintendo provide more variety by making games that cater more to the tastes of older gamers.
We've already seen them appeal to older gamers, now everybody's whining that 30+ is too old.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: ThePerm on April 14, 2009, 04:06:46 PM
they should make an m rated zelda that doesnt have link gannon or zelda and call it something else. Maybe New Franchise?
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Stogi on April 14, 2009, 04:12:26 PM
YES YES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YES
Edit: Ahem. I honestly think that it would be a smart business move if Nintendo, not blatantly, but systematically released new franchises the borrows heavily from existing franchises.
Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, and yes, even Pokemon would have their M-rated counterparts. It wouldn't play exactly like those games, but the underlying structure would be there.
I'd buy em'.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: EasyCure on April 14, 2009, 04:19:37 PM
M-rated Mario is the strawman argument used by the "Nintendo is always right" crowd against those that suggest that Nintendo provide more variety by making games that cater more to the tastes of older gamers.
We've already seen them appeal to older gamers, now everybody's whining that 30+ is too old.
QFT
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Mop it up on April 14, 2009, 05:06:41 PM
Mario characters should appear only in E-rated games, this is something which shouldn't even be joked about. Mario Strikers Charged is a good example of why Mario shouldn't appear in any games which get anything other than an E rating.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 14, 2009, 05:21:27 PM
Smash Bros.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Mop it up on April 14, 2009, 05:26:13 PM
Well, I don't like SSBBrawl because it is gritty, cold, and devoid of life, so it is another example of why any game with Mario in it shouldn't be rated anything other than E. I think SSBMelee deserved an E rating like the first game got, though I guess it has to count. Of course, even that game I do think should have a been a little more cartoony than it was.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 14, 2009, 05:30:55 PM
Hey, now. Let's not derail this into a different old argument, especially one that's less fun to laugh at.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 14, 2009, 05:31:24 PM
Strikers Charged is a great game.
Luigi's Mansion, not.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 14, 2009, 05:31:36 PM
Edit: Ahem. I honestly think that it would be a smart business move if Nintendo, not blatantly, but systematically released new franchises the borrows heavily from existing franchises.
Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, and yes, even Pokemon would have their M-rated counterparts. It wouldn't play exactly like those games, but the underlying structure would be there.
I'd buy em'.
What would be the point? Reducing the appeal of the game?
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 14, 2009, 05:36:50 PM
Hey, now. Let's not derail this into a different old argument, especially one that's less fun to laugh at.
What would that be? I'm talking about why any Mario characters shouldn't appear in any games that aren't E-rated, that seems like a part of the topic at hand.
A Luigi's Mansion sequel on Wii would be awesome though, despite that it would further solidify that Luigi really isn't a neglected character. Though it probably wouldn't be too practical, an interesting control scheme for the game would be to use two Wiimotes. One pointer would control the vacuum, and the other would be used to aim the flashlight.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Stratos on April 14, 2009, 06:01:02 PM
You'd feel differently if your Sunny Delight was in Luigi's Mansion.
Maybe the ghosts kidnapped Little Miss Sunny Delight and our green plumber has to rescue her.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Ian Sane on April 14, 2009, 06:26:46 PM
Quote
Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, and yes, even Pokemon would have their M-rated counterparts.
M-rated Metroid? What's the point? So it looks exactly the same but has swearing and blood in it? Metroid doesn't NEED to be M-rated. It already has a mature style and it does it without being exploitive. A "mature" game doesn't have to mean a game with a literal M-rating. It just means a game for an older audience and the truth is you could do that with an E-rating. You know why Resident Evil is full of gore? Because it fits the subject matter. I'm sure some people would think it's exploitative but it really isn't. Metroid's subject matter isn't such that it would really require anything that would earn it an M-rating.
As for the others I think I would prefer to just get new games. I don't have any problem with those games the way they are. In fact I love all of them. I just think Nintendo has a little too many cutesy games and could balance it out better. I think in Zelda's case they took something that appealed to an older audience as well as kids and overcompensated on making it cuter, thus alienating the older audience.
Quote
We've already seen them appeal to older gamers, now everybody's whining that 30+ is too old.
Ah, my least favourite type of argument. The "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED ALL ALONG!" The Wii ____ series is very much like Nintendo's "kiddie games" of the past in that they're technically inoffensive enough that everyone COULD like them. But the same problem persists - those that want something more specifically tailored to their tastes find themselves disinterested. I was open-minded enough to play Nintendo's cute "kiddie games" because I recognized that the gameplay was still fantastic. But I could sympathize with those that were put off by the setting, and I noticed the games that didn't try so hard to be for "everyone" were personally more enjoyable for me - Goldeneye/Perfect Dark on the N64, Metroid Prime games on the Cube. Non-games take it a step further and the actual GAMEPLAY is designed to be technically appealing to everyone. For me that was what kept the so called "kiddie games" from being unplayable. That was the one thing you could rely on with Nintendo games.
True variety doesn't mean "every game for everyone". Nintendo has NEVER figured that out and if they wonder why "kiddie" has been replaced with "casual", that's why. True variety means you have ten games aimed at five audiences and each of those games is very specifically tailored for the target audience so everyone gets two games they REALLY like. Nintendo's method was and still is ten games for five audiences and they make all ten something that all the audiences COULD like but in the end the only one that is truly satisfied is the lowest common denominator.
What are your tastes in movies or music like? Do you just listen to top 40 pop music and watch the big mainstream "number one movie in America!" films? Or do you also have some specific tastes? Some stuff that's more obscure that you don't expect everyone to like but you really like? What do you find more rewarding: the mainstream pandering "everyone COULD like this" stuff or the more specific stuff that feels more like it was made for YOU?
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Stogi on April 14, 2009, 07:27:34 PM
Edit: Ahem. I honestly think that it would be a smart business move if Nintendo, not blatantly, but systematically released new franchises the borrows heavily from existing franchises.
Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, and yes, even Pokemon would have their M-rated counterparts. It wouldn't play exactly like those games, but the underlying structure would be there.
I'd buy em'.
What would be the point? Reducing the appeal of the game?
No, to make good mature games! :P
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Armak88 on April 14, 2009, 11:41:36 PM
I don't think that Stogi is advocating mature versions of those franchises, rather, think about what a completely new mature platformer would be like with tight controls and polish like the mario games, or the attention to detail and control of metroid, but a new mature FPS, or a game that feels like zelda, but has a decidedly mature setting. I have to say I'd be interested, because the biggest set back of most mature offerings from any developer is that the gameplay is typically bland and uninspired, which is something Nintendo has never had a problem with. It would be interesting to see the fun of Nintendo gameplay in an unfamiliar (and yes, mature) setting.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Stogi on April 14, 2009, 11:54:45 PM
Thank you, Armak. That's exactly what I meant.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 15, 2009, 04:49:13 AM
Mature platformer sounds like an oxymoron. A bloody, gritty realistic game about a guy jumping extremely high and squshing enemies underfoot? W. T. F.
Ah, my least favourite type of argument. The "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED ALL ALONG!" The Wii ____ series is very much like Nintendo's "kiddie games" of the past in that they're technically inoffensive enough that everyone COULD like them. But the same problem persists - those that want something more specifically tailored to their tastes find themselves disinterested. I was open-minded enough to play Nintendo's cute "kiddie games" because I recognized that the gameplay was still fantastic. But I could sympathize with those that were put off by the setting, and I noticed the games that didn't try so hard to be for "everyone" were personally more enjoyable for me - Goldeneye/Perfect Dark on the N64, Metroid Prime games on the Cube. Non-games take it a step further and the actual GAMEPLAY is designed to be technically appealing to everyone. For me that was what kept the so called "kiddie games" from being unplayable. That was the one thing you could rely on with Nintendo games.
True variety doesn't mean "every game for everyone". Nintendo has NEVER figured that out and if they wonder why "kiddie" has been replaced with "casual", that's why. True variety means you have ten games aimed at five audiences and each of those games is very specifically tailored for the target audience so everyone gets two games they REALLY like. Nintendo's method was and still is ten games for five audiences and they make all ten something that all the audiences COULD like but in the end the only one that is truly satisfied is the lowest common denominator.
What are your tastes in movies or music like? Do you just listen to top 40 pop music and watch the big mainstream "number one movie in America!" films? Or do you also have some specific tastes? Some stuff that's more obscure that you don't expect everyone to like but you really like? What do you find more rewarding: the mainstream pandering "everyone COULD like this" stuff or the more specific stuff that feels more like it was made for YOU?
Nintendo always makes the big for everyone stuff because they've got a system to carry and only so much manpower to do it. Realistically I'd say these games cover every audience to some degree but not 100% so their appeal is still much, MUCH greater than that of a game aimed at a single audience (and hell, aren't many popular core games also aimed at different audiences by allowing different play styles like stealth, driving and shoot everything?). The new games cover a substantial part of the gamer audience and a huge market that no other games cover. However I'd say the games were specifically designed for the new market audience so you can't say there wasn't an audience focus there. That they still appeal to many gamers is pretty much automatic, a good game is a good game and many gamers don't demand more than that so they'll enjoy a good new audience game just as much as a good gamer audience game. What you complain about is that no game specifically caters to your tastes but I have no idea what kind of game actually DOES. What kind of game would anyone have to make to actually satisfy you? And how much of his output would have to be focussed on you to make you happy? You whine that there are 4-5 non-core games on the Wii when Nintendo has put out at least twice as many core games, I don't think you'd stop whining if 2 out of 10 games were aimed at you and the other 8 were designed to not appeal to you at all.
If you want games for your niche you'll have to buy third party but you don't seem to be willing to do that.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on April 15, 2009, 10:34:50 AM
Mature platformer sounds like an oxymoron. A bloody, gritty realistic game about a guy jumping extremely high and squshing enemies underfoot? W. T. F.
What if there were blood and gore every time he stomped? And what if the enemies didn't disappear once stomped, but later on you might come back to that area and the enemies would reanimate themselves as ghouls.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 15, 2009, 12:16:27 PM
Ah, my least favourite type of argument. The "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED ALL ALONG!" The Wii ____ series is very much like Nintendo's "kiddie games" of the past in that they're technically inoffensive enough that everyone COULD like them. But the same problem persists - those that want something more specifically tailored to their tastes find themselves disinterested. I was open-minded enough to play Nintendo's cute "kiddie games" because I recognized that the gameplay was still fantastic. But I could sympathize with those that were put off by the setting, and I noticed the games that didn't try so hard to be for "everyone" were personally more enjoyable for me - Goldeneye/Perfect Dark on the N64, Metroid Prime games on the Cube. Non-games take it a step further and the actual GAMEPLAY is designed to be technically appealing to everyone. For me that was what kept the so called "kiddie games" from being unplayable. That was the one thing you could rely on with Nintendo games.
True variety doesn't mean "every game for everyone". Nintendo has NEVER figured that out and if they wonder why "kiddie" has been replaced with "casual", that's why. True variety means you have ten games aimed at five audiences and each of those games is very specifically tailored for the target audience so everyone gets two games they REALLY like. Nintendo's method was and still is ten games for five audiences and they make all ten something that all the audiences COULD like but in the end the only one that is truly satisfied is the lowest common denominator.
What are your tastes in movies or music like? Do you just listen to top 40 pop music and watch the big mainstream "number one movie in America!" films? Or do you also have some specific tastes? Some stuff that's more obscure that you don't expect everyone to like but you really like? What do you find more rewarding: the mainstream pandering "everyone COULD like this" stuff or the more specific stuff that feels more like it was made for YOU?
Nintendo always makes the big for everyone stuff because they've got a system to carry and only so much manpower to do it. Realistically I'd say these games cover every audience to some degree but not 100% so their appeal is still much, MUCH greater than that of a game aimed at a single audience (and hell, aren't many popular core games also aimed at different audiences by allowing different play styles like stealth, driving and shoot everything?). The new games cover a substantial part of the gamer audience and a huge market that no other games cover. However I'd say the games were specifically designed for the new market audience so you can't say there wasn't an audience focus there. That they still appeal to many gamers is pretty much automatic, a good game is a good game and many gamers don't demand more than that so they'll enjoy a good new audience game just as much as a good gamer audience game. What you complain about is that no game specifically caters to your tastes but I have no idea what kind of game actually DOES. What kind of game would anyone have to make to actually satisfy you? And how much of his output would have to be focussed on you to make you happy? You whine that there are 4-5 non-core games on the Wii when Nintendo has put out at least twice as many core games, I don't think you'd stop whining if 2 out of 10 games were aimed at you and the other 8 were designed to not appeal to you at all.
If you want games for your niche you'll have to buy third party but you don't seem to be willing to do that.
THIS.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 15, 2009, 12:16:43 PM
Ah, my least favourite type of argument. The "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED ALL ALONG!" The Wii ____ series is very much like Nintendo's "kiddie games" of the past in that they're technically inoffensive enough that everyone COULD like them. But the same problem persists - those that want something more specifically tailored to their tastes find themselves disinterested. I was open-minded enough to play Nintendo's cute "kiddie games" because I recognized that the gameplay was still fantastic. But I could sympathize with those that were put off by the setting, and I noticed the games that didn't try so hard to be for "everyone" were personally more enjoyable for me - Goldeneye/Perfect Dark on the N64, Metroid Prime games on the Cube. Non-games take it a step further and the actual GAMEPLAY is designed to be technically appealing to everyone. For me that was what kept the so called "kiddie games" from being unplayable. That was the one thing you could rely on with Nintendo games.
True variety doesn't mean "every game for everyone". Nintendo has NEVER figured that out and if they wonder why "kiddie" has been replaced with "casual", that's why. True variety means you have ten games aimed at five audiences and each of those games is very specifically tailored for the target audience so everyone gets two games they REALLY like. Nintendo's method was and still is ten games for five audiences and they make all ten something that all the audiences COULD like but in the end the only one that is truly satisfied is the lowest common denominator.
What are your tastes in movies or music like? Do you just listen to top 40 pop music and watch the big mainstream "number one movie in America!" films? Or do you also have some specific tastes? Some stuff that's more obscure that you don't expect everyone to like but you really like? What do you find more rewarding: the mainstream pandering "everyone COULD like this" stuff or the more specific stuff that feels more like it was made for YOU?
Nintendo always makes the big for everyone stuff because they've got a system to carry and only so much manpower to do it. Realistically I'd say these games cover every audience to some degree but not 100% so their appeal is still much, MUCH greater than that of a game aimed at a single audience (and hell, aren't many popular core games also aimed at different audiences by allowing different play styles like stealth, driving and shoot everything?). The new games cover a substantial part of the gamer audience and a huge market that no other games cover. However I'd say the games were specifically designed for the new market audience so you can't say there wasn't an audience focus there. That they still appeal to many gamers is pretty much automatic, a good game is a good game and many gamers don't demand more than that so they'll enjoy a good new audience game just as much as a good gamer audience game. What you complain about is that no game specifically caters to your tastes but I have no idea what kind of game actually DOES. What kind of game would anyone have to make to actually satisfy you? And how much of his output would have to be focussed on you to make you happy? You whine that there are 4-5 non-core games on the Wii when Nintendo has put out at least twice as many core games, I don't think you'd stop whining if 2 out of 10 games were aimed at you and the other 8 were designed to not appeal to you at all.
If you want games for your niche you'll have to buy third party but you don't seem to be willing to do that.
THIS.
THIS.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 15, 2009, 12:17:04 PM
Ah, my least favourite type of argument. The "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED ALL ALONG!" The Wii ____ series is very much like Nintendo's "kiddie games" of the past in that they're technically inoffensive enough that everyone COULD like them. But the same problem persists - those that want something more specifically tailored to their tastes find themselves disinterested. I was open-minded enough to play Nintendo's cute "kiddie games" because I recognized that the gameplay was still fantastic. But I could sympathize with those that were put off by the setting, and I noticed the games that didn't try so hard to be for "everyone" were personally more enjoyable for me - Goldeneye/Perfect Dark on the N64, Metroid Prime games on the Cube. Non-games take it a step further and the actual GAMEPLAY is designed to be technically appealing to everyone. For me that was what kept the so called "kiddie games" from being unplayable. That was the one thing you could rely on with Nintendo games.
True variety doesn't mean "every game for everyone". Nintendo has NEVER figured that out and if they wonder why "kiddie" has been replaced with "casual", that's why. True variety means you have ten games aimed at five audiences and each of those games is very specifically tailored for the target audience so everyone gets two games they REALLY like. Nintendo's method was and still is ten games for five audiences and they make all ten something that all the audiences COULD like but in the end the only one that is truly satisfied is the lowest common denominator.
What are your tastes in movies or music like? Do you just listen to top 40 pop music and watch the big mainstream "number one movie in America!" films? Or do you also have some specific tastes? Some stuff that's more obscure that you don't expect everyone to like but you really like? What do you find more rewarding: the mainstream pandering "everyone COULD like this" stuff or the more specific stuff that feels more like it was made for YOU?
Nintendo always makes the big for everyone stuff because they've got a system to carry and only so much manpower to do it. Realistically I'd say these games cover every audience to some degree but not 100% so their appeal is still much, MUCH greater than that of a game aimed at a single audience (and hell, aren't many popular core games also aimed at different audiences by allowing different play styles like stealth, driving and shoot everything?). The new games cover a substantial part of the gamer audience and a huge market that no other games cover. However I'd say the games were specifically designed for the new market audience so you can't say there wasn't an audience focus there. That they still appeal to many gamers is pretty much automatic, a good game is a good game and many gamers don't demand more than that so they'll enjoy a good new audience game just as much as a good gamer audience game. What you complain about is that no game specifically caters to your tastes but I have no idea what kind of game actually DOES. What kind of game would anyone have to make to actually satisfy you? And how much of his output would have to be focussed on you to make you happy? You whine that there are 4-5 non-core games on the Wii when Nintendo has put out at least twice as many core games, I don't think you'd stop whining if 2 out of 10 games were aimed at you and the other 8 were designed to not appeal to you at all.
If you want games for your niche you'll have to buy third party but you don't seem to be willing to do that.
THIS.
THIS.
You want THAT, RIGHT?
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 15, 2009, 12:17:23 PM
Ah, my least favourite type of argument. The "THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED ALL ALONG!" The Wii ____ series is very much like Nintendo's "kiddie games" of the past in that they're technically inoffensive enough that everyone COULD like them. But the same problem persists - those that want something more specifically tailored to their tastes find themselves disinterested. I was open-minded enough to play Nintendo's cute "kiddie games" because I recognized that the gameplay was still fantastic. But I could sympathize with those that were put off by the setting, and I noticed the games that didn't try so hard to be for "everyone" were personally more enjoyable for me - Goldeneye/Perfect Dark on the N64, Metroid Prime games on the Cube. Non-games take it a step further and the actual GAMEPLAY is designed to be technically appealing to everyone. For me that was what kept the so called "kiddie games" from being unplayable. That was the one thing you could rely on with Nintendo games.
True variety doesn't mean "every game for everyone". Nintendo has NEVER figured that out and if they wonder why "kiddie" has been replaced with "casual", that's why. True variety means you have ten games aimed at five audiences and each of those games is very specifically tailored for the target audience so everyone gets two games they REALLY like. Nintendo's method was and still is ten games for five audiences and they make all ten something that all the audiences COULD like but in the end the only one that is truly satisfied is the lowest common denominator.
What are your tastes in movies or music like? Do you just listen to top 40 pop music and watch the big mainstream "number one movie in America!" films? Or do you also have some specific tastes? Some stuff that's more obscure that you don't expect everyone to like but you really like? What do you find more rewarding: the mainstream pandering "everyone COULD like this" stuff or the more specific stuff that feels more like it was made for YOU?
Nintendo always makes the big for everyone stuff because they've got a system to carry and only so much manpower to do it. Realistically I'd say these games cover every audience to some degree but not 100% so their appeal is still much, MUCH greater than that of a game aimed at a single audience (and hell, aren't many popular core games also aimed at different audiences by allowing different play styles like stealth, driving and shoot everything?). The new games cover a substantial part of the gamer audience and a huge market that no other games cover. However I'd say the games were specifically designed for the new market audience so you can't say there wasn't an audience focus there. That they still appeal to many gamers is pretty much automatic, a good game is a good game and many gamers don't demand more than that so they'll enjoy a good new audience game just as much as a good gamer audience game. What you complain about is that no game specifically caters to your tastes but I have no idea what kind of game actually DOES. What kind of game would anyone have to make to actually satisfy you? And how much of his output would have to be focussed on you to make you happy? You whine that there are 4-5 non-core games on the Wii when Nintendo has put out at least twice as many core games, I don't think you'd stop whining if 2 out of 10 games were aimed at you and the other 8 were designed to not appeal to you at all.
If you want games for your niche you'll have to buy third party but you don't seem to be willing to do that.
THIS.
THIS.
You want THAT, RIGHT?
YES, THAT.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: EasyCure on April 15, 2009, 12:36:23 PM
I think he finally snapped...
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Ian Sane on April 15, 2009, 12:50:21 PM
Quote
don't think that Stogi is advocating mature versions of those franchises, rather, think about what a completely new mature platformer would be like with tight controls and polish like the mario games, or the attention to detail and control of metroid, but a new mature FPS, or a game that feels like zelda, but has a decidedly mature setting.
I think with Metroid Prime and non-cel-shaded Zelda we already have a pretty mature setting for that style of gameplay. But for a platformer, yeah, I think there's potential. I think anyone thinking too literally about someone jumping around and squashing people is missing the point. Since when does a platformer have to play exactly like Mario? Isn't Prince of Persia pretty much a platformer? Or at least it has enough platforming elements to give one an idea of what a non-cutesy platformer could be like. And who says a platformer even has to have enemies at all? What if there was a game where the main character was trapped in a canyon or something and had to ascend platforms to get to the top and get out? No enemies. No blood and guts. No swearing. No tits. Just a guy trying to overcome an obstacle.
Quote
What you complain about is that no game specifically caters to your tastes but I have no idea what kind of game actually DOES. What kind of game would anyone have to make to actually satisfy you? And how much of his output would have to be focussed on you to make you happy?
Zelda caters to my tastes when it isn't a cartoon, and the gameplay still does even then. Metroid caters to my taste. Pretty much EVERY Rare game catered to my tastes back when they were with Nintendo. F-Zero caters to my tastes. Pikmin does since I don't see the visuals as aimed at children. Nintendo has historically been VERY good at making games that feel catered to my tastes when they're not intentionally restricting the game for a lowest common denominator audience like kids or non-gamers. But it's been OVER A YEAR since they released something like that. SSB Brawl came out in March 2008 and it's now April 2009!
Quote
If you want games for your niche you'll have to buy third party but you don't seem to be willing to do that.
When third parties put their best titles on the Wii I'll buy them. If the PS3 price ever comes down to something I see as reasonable I'll buy that and then I'll be buying third party. It's not my fault third parties use the Wii as a dumping ground for their junk.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Armak88 on April 15, 2009, 03:31:42 PM
Mature platformer sounds like an oxymoron. A bloody, gritty realistic game about a guy jumping extremely high and squshing enemies underfoot? W. T. F.
What if there were blood and gore every time he stomped? And what if the enemies didn't disappear once stomped, but later on you might come back to that area and the enemies would reanimate themselves as ghouls.
I think you're limiting yourself too much. At heart, Mirror's Edge is a mature platformer, it's just from the first person perspective. Think less guns and better 3rd person perspective controls. Hell, think prince of persia. The point is that if Nintendo tried their hand at these games, they could infuse them with the great gameplay they are known for, and provide more variety than their current line up. I wouldn't want to see Zelda any more mature than it is already, that's fine, but imagine a Fire Emblem game where you controlled one person like in Zelda. That could pull off a much more mature setting. It doesn't even have to be a FE game, I'm just putting it out there as an example. It would just be cool to see what Nintendo could do with it.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 15, 2009, 03:44:53 PM
Majora's Mask and Metroid Primes are matoor platformers.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: ShyGuy on April 15, 2009, 04:07:43 PM
Mirror's Edge is the new platformer. It's a brave new world.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NWR_Lindy on April 15, 2009, 04:23:40 PM
Pro - do not flood the thread, please. Thanks.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 16, 2009, 03:56:13 AM
Long story short...no.
Luigi's Mansion was special because it created a creepy and haunting atmosphere that felt unique. Turning it into a mature title would just kill off any sense of charm and friendly the game had.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Peachylala on April 16, 2009, 12:53:51 PM
If Nintendo did what Pap mentioned, I would completely give up on video games.
It will never happen though, because Nintendo would never do that.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: EasyCure on April 16, 2009, 01:10:54 PM
If Nintendo did what Pap mentioned, I would completely give up on video games.
It will never happen though, because Nintendo would never do that.
unless we lived during a situation like that of "Children of Men" where people stopped having kids and the young who turned into older more matoor people were gamers and demanded teh hardcorpes gamez
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 16, 2009, 01:32:01 PM
If Nintendo did what Pap mentioned, I would completely give up on video games.
It will never happen though, because Nintendo would never do that.
Hah, that's exactly what I said when I first saw IGN's April Fools joke.
what was their april fools joke..?
Wii Expand. It's Nintendo's DLC service which "expands" existing game for longer game life and replayability. The first game to be shown off was "Super Smash Brawl". The new update turns the game from a family friendly brawler to a bloody fighter that would make Mortal Kombat blush.
IGN tried to make the video as convincing as possible by using a "Japanese" commentator and off screen footage. The footage shows off the characters bleeding every time they are hit, and the video ends with Link decapitating Mario.
From the minute the blood appeared I knew it was a joke because Nintendo would never allow a game in which you decapitate their characters.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: EasyCure on April 16, 2009, 03:49:27 PM
sounds like the worst april fools joke ever. They should've just told they're boss they were coming out of the closet or something like that.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 16, 2009, 03:55:21 PM
I thought the blood was too terrible looking for it to be from Nintendo, too. Leaving aside the argument over whether Nintendo would make a blood splattery game, you know that they'd make it look pretty good if they did. That IGN video looked like it was made by someone who'd just read The Complete Idiot's Guide to Particle Effects.
They'll never top that Zelda movie trailer. They might as well just stop.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on April 16, 2009, 04:13:34 PM
I thought the blood was too terrible looking for it to be from Nintendo, too. Leaving aside the argument over whether Nintendo would make a blood splattery game, you know that they'd make it look pretty good if they did. That IGN video looked like it was made by someone who'd just read The Complete Idiot's Guide to Particle Effects.
They'll never top that Zelda movie trailer. They might as well just stop.
There were also many elements that gave away the fact that it was a lame April Fool's joke...
1. If Nintendo announced a service like "Wii Expand" they wouldn't just announce it all of a sudden. They would either find a big outlet (E3, GDC, Tokyo Game Show) to unleash the new or create a big press conference. Nintendo might be unpredictable with their news and announcements, but they always pick a place and a time for them.
2. If an announcement is to be made you can bet that Iwata, Reggie, Cammie or any important person at Nintendo will deliver it. The video showed a random Japanese woman making the announcement. Again, Nintendo likes to deliver the news themselves and not hire a third party to do it.
3. Why would anyone secretly tape a conference if they were invited to the event? I know that some conferences don't allow for the event to be taped. But even then the media can professionally record a conference without the need of guerilla tactics.
4. The room clearly looked like a regular room with the lights turned off, a big screen TV in the middle of the room and some people to simulate a crowd. Once again, these news events take place in big convention centers and theaters. The room just looked too small for a press conference.
I feel bad for those that actually believed the news on April Fools day...
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 16, 2009, 04:14:50 PM
I feel bad for those that actually believed the news on April Fools day...
I think people don't know what to believe on April Fools day anymore, don't forget that Nintendo and Sega chose April Fools day to announce Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 16, 2009, 05:30:50 PM
I think people just file everything announced on that day as bullshit and wait for what remains on the following days.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: EasyCure on April 16, 2009, 05:39:31 PM
I feel bad for those that actually believed the news on April Fools day...
I think people don't know what to believe on April Fools day anymore, don't forget that Nintendo and Sega chose April Fools day to announce Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games.
the only fools that came out of that are the ones that thought it wouldnt sell!
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Snipper64 on April 16, 2009, 10:58:13 PM
I liked the april fools joke of the "zelda movie" I think IGN cooked up. Looked really cool, and well made, very belivable, fooled me :D
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Stratos on April 17, 2009, 07:04:26 PM
It looked 'fan made movie' caliber at best. Totally unbelievable for me. Got a good laugh out of it though.
Title: Re: Should Luigi's Mansion 2 be an M-rated Survival Horror game?
Post by: Peachylala on April 17, 2009, 11:12:15 PM
