Of course since it's G4 I shouldn't be surprised since they're one of the biggest jokes in all of gaming. But this is a rather big deal since Star Fox 64 is widely regarded as the best one, and this guy had no involvement what so ever in it. This goes to show that this guys words shouldn't be taken too seriously, when Miyamoto and Nintendo are the ones solely responsible for making the best in the series without his involvement.
Oh yeah, not to mention Dylan Cuthbert is NOT the creator of the original Star Fox. The man who deserves most of the credit for the original Star Fox is Katsuya Eguchi who was the DIRECTOR of the damn game. The director in videogames, like movies, is the most important person. They're the one that runs everything and makes the important decisions. Cuthbert was just a programmer for the original, who was working under, that's right, Eguchi and doing what Eguchi told him.
The only Star Fox that Cuthbert can truly say was his baby is Command, where he got to finally be the director and controlled what happened. And we all know how Command turned out.
So what we have here, is an article where they're interviewing a guy who worked on the original Star Fox, and then got to direct what was arguably the worst Star Fox, but had no involvement in what generally considered the best Star Fox. And yet, he's now considered the creator of the series and so his words are to be taken as fact, especially since he's bashing Nintendo with them?
Really, this interview deserves to be posted in the "Pathetic state of the gaming media" thread because of all the factual errors and the blatant misleading it does.
Edit: Oh look at that, G4 has just gone back and edited the article and now acknowledges that Cuthbert had nothing to do with 64. They even apologize at the bottom now.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: rbtr on April 04, 2009, 03:22:14 PM
Thanks luigi dude, I thought something was off. After reading the article I did a cursory google search of his name, and there was no mention of starfox. If that's the case then this article is completely bogus! Command wasn't terrible, I really enjoyed the terrible plots (classic cheese!) and the "command" aspect.
I think the Wii would be a great fit for starfox, which has always been (to me) about simple controls and shooting things. Pointer controls would work great! Or even the controls like in the warioware boss stage would be fun. Or just use the nunchuck! What's stopping you? >=U
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Pale on April 04, 2009, 04:38:54 PM
I'd be much more willing to discount his comments if the PixelJunk games weren't kicking so much ass on PSN. Nintendo needs to get some of that love.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Deguello on April 05, 2009, 04:17:13 AM
Quote
I'd be much more willing to discount his comments if the PixelJunk games weren't kicking so much ass on PSN. Nintendo needs to get some of that love.
If making good games were all that took to make such comments legitimate, then there are several counterarguments by people who've made better games than PixelJunk. The reason this is disappointing and facepalm-inducing is because this is the deadest of horses, continually flogged seemingly every single week due to this weird desire to bash the Wii or Nintendo in general for uh... being popular I suppose. Just like that Bizarro World Sony press release just today.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stratos on April 05, 2009, 04:46:15 AM
Thanks for the sleuthing Luigi Dude.
Article sounds like a bunch of hot air pulled out by a network looking for a rating boost, and dissing the Wii is like hitting a hornets nest with a bat.
never played SF Command, thought I'd like to try it out.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Pale on April 05, 2009, 11:46:33 AM
I'd be much more willing to discount his comments if the PixelJunk games weren't kicking so much ass on PSN. Nintendo needs to get some of that love.
If making good games were all that took to make such comments legitimate, then there are several counterarguments by people who've made better games than PixelJunk. The reason this is disappointing and facepalm-inducing is because this is the deadest of horses, continually flogged seemingly every single week due to this weird desire to bash the Wii or Nintendo in general for uh... being popular I suppose. Just like that Bizarro World Sony press release just today.
That doesn't change the fact that I love playing his games. Regardless of whether someone agrees with his comments, they are an opinion of his that will obviously affect the console choice of his company's games.
Toy comments aside, I don't see how anyone could argue that Star Fox hasn't been going in a poor direction as of late. What I take from these comments is that the primary reason he isn't interested in making a new Star Fox game is that he doesn't want to take on such a huge project that he wouldn't have much control over the outcome on. That's pretty sad coming from a great team like Q Games.
We all know this isn't a hardware issue. Games can definitely work on Wii regardless of horse power or any of that. What this is is a PR issue and Nintendo should at least worry about this stuff a little bit. Relations with possible developers are pretty damn important.
I have to assume that something Star Fox related is at least in the initial concept stage at some studio associated with Nintendo. It's apparent that that studio is not Q Games. If we assume Cuthbert's comments about Miyamoto wanting it to feature fox walking around and what not, we should also assume that this large scale Star Fox game won't be a _pure_ shooter....
If I were Nintendo I would have called up Cuthbert the day after he made these comments and said...
"Hey there. I was pretty sad to read your comments about the Star Fox series and your opinion of us as a company right now. I really love what you are doing on PSN with your PixelJunk series. We don't want to ask you to make a large scale Star Fox game as it's apparent you don't want to do that, but I have a great idea. How would you feel about making more of a snack sized and pure shooter edition of the series for WiiWare? We could sell it for 10-20 bucks. It would make the classic franchise fans really happy, and we'll let you have all but free reign on the project. How does that sound?"
Heh, but I guess that's my opinion. I would love such a game though.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Pale on April 05, 2009, 11:54:22 AM
PS, as an interesting aside to these comments. I've had Star Fox Command sitting sealed on my shelf for some time, and I chose it to be the first game I'll play on my DSi.
I can't wait to see if it's really as bad as some people make it out to be.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Nick DiMola on April 05, 2009, 12:03:20 PM
I liked Star Fox: Command. Not sure what all the hate is about. Sure, it's no Star Fox 2 and of course much different from 1 and 64, but it was still a decent game.
Makes Assault look like the big pile of garbage it is, and don't even get me started on Adventures.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 05, 2009, 12:08:27 PM
I liked Star Fox: Command. Not sure what all the hate is about. Sure, it's no Star Fox 2 and of course much different from 1 and 64, but it was still a decent game.
Makes Assault look like the big pile of garbage it is, and don't even get me started on Adventures.
As dull SF:Adventures is, there are Zelda clones that are far worse. I didn't try Assault after hearing that there are graphical glitches that affects the gameplay, I wonder what would be worse Assault made by Namco or by Factor 5(after the Rouge Squadron 3 hate).
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Deguello on April 05, 2009, 03:10:48 PM
Quote
That doesn't change the fact that I love playing his games.
Not sure where I suggested that you stop doing that, but OK. The main point is that doesn't validate his opinion, much as him saying the Sun revolves around the Earth wouldn't be true either.
And I'm also not sure Nintendo's in the business of offering projects to people who insult them. I mean is this the standard M.O.?
Step 1: Get interview with magazine Step 2: Infer or explicitly say "Nintendo is for kids/non-gamers/dog enthusiasts/whatever" in a way that seems both condescending and jealous of their popularity at the same time Step 3: Await apologetic call from Nintendo for having offended you and offer to fund a project.
It doesn't seem like that would work. Now yeah, that's just what you would do if you were Nintendo. But If I were Nintendo I'd buy out their company for chump change from Sony (because they desperately need cash right now) and make them work on nothing but Balance Board Minigames.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: KDR_11k on April 05, 2009, 03:51:56 PM
Of course the real Nintendo just keeps its cool and keeps doing what makes the most sense, not some petty revenge nonsense.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on April 05, 2009, 07:15:25 PM
"Hey there. I was pretty sad to read your comments about the Star Fox series and your opinion of us as a company right now. I really love what you are doing on PSN with your PixelJunk series. We don't want to ask you to make a large scale Star Fox game as it's apparent you don't want to do that, but I have a great idea. How would you feel about making more of a snack sized and pure shooter edition of the series for WiiWare? We could sell it for 10-20 bucks. It would make the classic franchise fans really happy, and we'll let you have all but free reign on the project. How does that sound?"
Where's the internet world wide web poll where I can vote you in for the job of "Person who makes this happen"?
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Djunknown on April 05, 2009, 11:34:47 PM
Mr.Cuthbert (or someone posing as him?) clears the air. (http://gonintendo.com/?p=78016)
The source. (http://kotaku.com/5198261/star-fox-creator-wont-do-a-barrel-roll-on-wii#viewcomments) Go to the fourth page.
Ummm...bow and shake hands? Beef over?
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Deguello on April 06, 2009, 12:57:16 AM
Quote
Of course the real Nintendo just keeps its cool and keeps doing what makes the most sense, not some petty revenge nonsense.
Everybody has their vices, KDR. :D
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Nick DiMola on April 06, 2009, 07:07:01 AM
The only comment that he made that really annoys the crap out of me is the toy comment. I understand that he may not have meant to make it sound derogatory, but it inherently is.
No one in their right mind would think of calling the Xbox 360 or PS3 a toy, and why is that? Because it has media capabilities? To me, that makes it more of a toy (a technophile toy) and less of a game machine. When I turn on my Wii, a game is getting played. More often than not, when I turn on my PS3, I'm watching a movie. I'm not even sure the last time I turned on my 360 (I think right after the New Year to play some Nuts & Bolts).
If Nintendo would've released the Wii as an HD machine, with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING different from the current setup, I guarantee not a single developer would be sending all the smacktalk and hate they seem to be sending now. It just shows how reliant the industry has been on using graphics to push gaming forward, and not good gameplay ideas. It also reaffirms why I love Nintendo so much.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: KDR_11k on April 06, 2009, 09:08:49 AM
Oh, they'd be talking about how Nintendo is for kids and going to leave the videogame industry soon.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: EasyCure on April 06, 2009, 09:27:36 AM
Oh, they'd be talking about how Nintendo is for kids and going to leave the videogame industry soon.
I can see that happening since Nintendo would make HD games in colors other than BROWN
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stogi on April 06, 2009, 10:23:26 AM
In the words of a pimp:
"If you have 10 haters hating on you, you need to find out how to get to 16 before the summer ends. And if anyone is out there with no one to hate, don't be afraid to hate on me."
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: EasyCure on April 06, 2009, 10:28:00 AM
"If you have 10 haters hating on you, you need to find out how to get to 16 before the summer ends. And if anyone is out there with no one to hate, don't be afraid to hate on me."
Classic Williams<3
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Ian Sane on April 06, 2009, 01:30:07 PM
I don't like the "Wii is a toy" comment but not because I disagree but because a lot of developers don't take the Wii seriously, despite it's market leading position. That's a problem. That's why the Wii third party support absolutely SUCKS. This is a major issue but because Nintendo is rolling around in the money they're doing nothing about it. And because they're ignoring the problem it will never go away. Next gen will be the same thing. They'll skimp on this, skimp on that, focus on non-gamers over core gamers, and it'll be the same damn problem. And they won't acknowledge or do anything about it unless it affects the bottomline, but then it will be too late.
The guy sounds bitter but he's certainly not wrong about the current state of the Star Fox series. And Miyamoto is the guy who wanted Rare to turn Dinosaur Planet into Star Fox Adventures and that was the beginning of the end. Hell, I'm bitter as a gamer about that so if I was previously involved with the series I would be quite annoyed to see it go in such a lousy direction.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 06, 2009, 02:50:09 PM
It's alright tho, cuz these bonehead developers are dying out. Studios shutdown and/or bought up, what a lovable market.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 06, 2009, 02:53:16 PM
"And Miyamoto is the guy who wanted Rare to turn Dinosaur Planet into Star Fox Adventures and that was the beginning of the end."
More likely he knew well in advance they were dumping Rare, so he went for the cheapest franchise labeling trick to reduce overall costs on developing/marketing that disaster. "add space furries and take all this stuff away so we can get this out ASAP before the big auction!"
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 06, 2009, 03:32:52 PM
Proportion. This has been blown out of it.
He was right about Miyamoto being willing to do things with franchises that a lot of fans hate. We have empirical evidence, e.g. Star Fox in Dinosaur Planet, Celda, and many more. The statement that the Wii is "more of a toy" is not inherently offensive, either (not the least of which because it's a fragment; more of a toy than what? a ham sandwich?). In the context of the interview, it's next to impossible to determine what he really meant, and the interviewer didn't press him on it, even though it was a non sequitur and he really should have.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stratos on April 06, 2009, 04:06:07 PM
That is most certainly not empirical evidence.
Did anyone complain about SFA before it came out? No one had tried that before and no one knew how the fans would react. I don't recall scathing editorials against it back then. It was only after the game was released that people complained about it. And Celda? People now, including the RFN crew, agree that the Celda issue was not as big of a problem as people made it out to be in retrospective. In fact minus the sailing most people look back with fondness at Wind Waker and people enjoyed Hourglass. When Spirit Tracks was announced people weren't complaining about the style. The Celda outcry was a bunch of children with identity issues afraid they'd once more be labeled kiddie.
Miyamoto has to go against the flow or else we'd have gotten none of the greats we love. Many of the things we balked at originally we actually enjoyed when it came out. Doesn't mean he always hits his mark (WiiMusic in my case) but it's how he gets it right so many times.
Also, why is this guy's opinion important for Star Fox? He was a programmer on the SNES ones and then wasn't involved with the series again until he directed the DS version with his little studio which I hear was mediocre to OK at best. He didn't have anything to do with the creative process of the old games. Why are people giving him more credit than he deserves?
That second article was him backpedaling in the face of the poor reaction it got from gamers methinks.
I don't think the 3rd party situation is as dismal as you put it, Ian. There are a number of titles from 3rd parties that are good or promising to be good in the coming year. But I agree that there are some that are problematic and the 'toy' comment shows some devs feelings on this. I guess it just boils down to them refusing a profit in the name of saving face and pride.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Ian Sane on April 06, 2009, 05:00:02 PM
Quote
It's alright tho, cuz these bonehead developers are dying out.
Yeah but I like some of those bonehead developers, you know? It's kind of like a self-destructive friend. Yeah he's an idiot and he's creating his own problems and deep down he will deserve everything that happens to him... but he's still your friend.
I want talented devs to survive and thrive making the games they want to make.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 06, 2009, 05:08:03 PM
Then they'd better jump ship and get on the proper LOVE BOAT.
Otherwise, sink. Henry Royal's not gonna jump off a dumptruck to bail them out.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 06, 2009, 05:20:21 PM
Did anyone complain about SFA before it came out? No one had tried that before and no one knew how the fans would react. I don't recall scathing editorials against it back then. It was only after the game was released that people complained about it. And Celda? People now, including the RFN crew, agree that the Celda issue was not as big of a problem as people made it out to be in retrospective. In fact minus the sailing most people look back with fondness at Wind Waker and people enjoyed Hourglass. When Spirit Tracks was announced people weren't complaining about the style. The Celda outcry was a bunch of children with identity issues afraid they'd once more be labeled kiddie.
I'd like to introduce you to my friend Reading Comprehension, of the New Hampshire Comprehensions.
Edit: Let's see if I can make this more constructive.
I was referring to empirical evidence of Miyamoto doing things his way even though fans hated the idea, not empirical evidence that Miyamoto was wrong or that the haters were right. You didn't need to jump to his defense because I was not attacking him. I don't believe Cuthbert was, either.
I don't think his comment on Kotaku was backpedaling. One bad interviewer got a developer to call the Wii a toy again, and all the worthless Intermotron bloggers trumped it up to get hits. I'm surprised he bothered to reply at all.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 06, 2009, 05:57:54 PM
He could've called the interview a saboteur douche. That would've helped.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stratos on April 06, 2009, 09:04:44 PM
Did anyone complain about SFA before it came out? No one had tried that before and no one knew how the fans would react. I don't recall scathing editorials against it back then. It was only after the game was released that people complained about it. And Celda? People now, including the RFN crew, agree that the Celda issue was not as big of a problem as people made it out to be in retrospective. In fact minus the sailing most people look back with fondness at Wind Waker and people enjoyed Hourglass. When Spirit Tracks was announced people weren't complaining about the style. The Celda outcry was a bunch of children with identity issues afraid they'd once more be labeled kiddie.
I'd like to introduce you to my friend Reading Comprehension, of the New Hampshire Comprehensions.
Edit: Let's see if I can make this more constructive.
I was referring to empirical evidence of Miyamoto doing things his way even though fans hated the idea, not empirical evidence that Miyamoto was wrong or that the haters were right. You didn't need to jump to his defense because I was not attacking him. I don't believe Cuthbert was, either.
I don't think his comment on Kotaku was backpedaling. One bad interviewer got a developer to call the Wii a toy again, and all the worthless Intermotron bloggers trumped it up to get hits. I'm surprised he bothered to reply at all.
Maybe I didn't respond coherently enough. Did fans not want SFA? I seem to remember people being excited about the game and the potential it had. Everyone was optimistic about it before it came out. Sure it didn't turn out too favorably in the end but no one was condemning it as wrong or a misstep for the series. Granted, it may have been Rareware optimism that carried the game till it's launch but people still game it a chance. Fans were not condemning it as an unholy marker in the series.
And my point about Celda was that fans were bothered by the kiddie image and not with the game itself so I discount those opinions as 'what the fans wanted'.
Is that a better way to describe what I am conveying as a disagreement regarding your statement?
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 07, 2009, 12:24:18 PM
I'm still not convinced you understood me in the first place.
And my point about Celda was that fans were bothered by the kiddie image and not with the game itself so I discount those opinions as 'what the fans wanted'.
This doesn't even make sense. Some* fans were bothered by the image, yes. We can stop there, because we've already established that there was something that some fans didn't like. It wouldn't matter if every other facet of the game caused spontaneous joygasms, because the base idea was that there was something that some people didn't like. I was around back then, and I'd go so far as to say it was outright hatred.
The original supposition was "Miyamoto [is] willing to do things with franchises that a lot of fans hate." We've established that some fans hated the change to cel-shading in the Zelda franchise, and the fact that it happened is sufficient proof to me of Miyamoto's willingness. Why do you have a problem with the statement? It's not a condemnation of Miyamoto or his work. It's a sign of genius. He's figured out that if you put too much emphasis on a franchise's traditional trappings, it stagnates.
*I've decided to start saying "some" because I think part of the problem may be that you assumed I meant "all."
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stogi on April 07, 2009, 12:50:31 PM
I don't think Nintendo will ever make that mistake again; showing Zelda, then showing a completely different version of it two years later.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 07, 2009, 12:57:31 PM
Current-gen Celdas still outnumber current-gen matoor Zelda.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Ian Sane on April 07, 2009, 02:12:52 PM
Quote
I don't think Nintendo will ever make that mistake again; showing Zelda, then showing a completely different version of it two years later.
That was ultimately the problem. The bait-and-switch. It's like last E3 when Reggie made comments about having something for core gamers and then E3 was incredibly non-gamer focused. Creating the false expectations created the fan backlash.
For the record I didn't like how Star Fox was shoehorned into Dinosaur Planet at the time, mostly because I was looking forward to Dinosaur Planet and changing the franchise would deny me of the unique IP Rare was creating. Plus I figured people who didn't know the development history of the game would insist that Star Fox elements be put into the game and thus we got the Airwing sections and such.
SFA was basically a game for NOBODY and Miyamoto goofed on that. Rare fans had become excited about Dinosaur Planet and that's what they wanted to see. Star Fox fans want Star Fox to play like Star Fox. SFA denied both fans of what they wanted. It's a compromise game, designed to please two different audiences and that never works. Nobody gets what they want, nobody is happy.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stogi on April 07, 2009, 02:38:21 PM
I don't think it was a bad idea in theory.
The problem was the shoe-horning. If the team started out thinking about a StarFox Adventure game, then I bet it would have been much better.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 07, 2009, 02:42:22 PM
I didn't intend for these old arguments to flare up again. I don't regret this, but I both rue and lament it.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stratos on April 07, 2009, 05:25:27 PM
OK, Ultimate PB, I'll agree with you. I was trying to go at it on a different wavelength from you and completely overshot your original point in the process. I concede defeat.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 07, 2009, 05:57:10 PM
You're all right, Stratos. Sorry if I sounded harsh.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stratos on April 07, 2009, 05:58:54 PM
It's all good. I don't take offense easily online so you didn't do anything wrong that I saw.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 07, 2009, 07:59:18 PM
The problem was the shoe-horning. If the team started out thinking about a StarFox Adventure game, then I bet it would have been much better.
No the game still would have been poor because Rare had become a slacker studio by then, which is why Nintendo got rid of them. Even if the game got to remain Dinosaur Planet, the mediocre gameplay would have remained. Instead of getting a poor new IP, we got a poor Star Fox game instead.
People have to stop blaming Miyamoto for the way Star Fox Adventures turned out. Miyamoto didn't tell Rare to make the game one big boring collect-a-thon with lame combat and gameplay. This was all Rare's doing and only Rare's doing.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Spinnzilla on April 07, 2009, 08:02:20 PM
Considering the last couple of Star Fox games have been pretty meh, I'm glad he's staying away from the franchise.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Mikintosh on April 07, 2009, 08:35:44 PM
I liked Assault, though it was still not as good as 64 (though much more enjoyable then Adventures). I'd buy any Star Fox game in a second, which is why I'm mystified that not only is Nintendo not producing a new game in the series, but they haven't even released Star Fox 2 on the VC even though the damn thing's been finished for fifteen years.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 07, 2009, 08:51:17 PM
I'd buy any Star Fox game in a second, which is why I'm mystified that not only is Nintendo not producing a new game in the series
We don't know that Nintendo isn't producing a new Star Fox. Look at the upcoming Excite Bots coming out later this months. According to Monster Games, they worked on that game for over 2 years and yet, Nintendo didn't reveal it until the end of Febuary, 2 months before it's release later this month.
So for all we know, Star Fox Wii could already be 98% done and Nintendo is just waiting until E3 to reveal it.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stratos on April 07, 2009, 10:08:00 PM
I'm with Luigi Dude on this, I think it will show up at E3 in one form or another.
It will go back to being more of an on-rails game and people will complain about the on-rails part of it. ;)
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: EasyCure on April 08, 2009, 09:27:24 AM
I'm with Luigi Dude on this, I think it will show up at E3 in one form or another.
It will go back to being more of an on-rails game and people will complain about the on-rails part of it. ;)
I'm with Stratos on this one. People will complain that it has online vs modes but not online co-op. Or they'll complain that it should be a giant space MMO game and other things that will push it as far away from a standard Star Fox game then ever.
To be honest, i'd be happy with either of these two outcomes:
a. A game on par with Star Fox 64 b. A game that borrows from Star Fox: Assault, but with Star Fox 64 quality.
Thats right. I actually didn't mind all the runnin' and gunnin'. The part i did mind was that it took precedent over piloting an Arwing. A good Star Fox game would find a way to balance it all out.
I mean Star Fox 64, the game heralded as being the best in the series, introduced us to the LANDMASTER!, and its multiplayer had Star Fox Team on foot with blasters, so i've always hated the argument that those didn't "feel" like Star Fox or just didn't FIT. Hell those familiar with SF2 know that even it had vehicles other than Arwings and also had "all-range mode" levels, so it all fits.
I know i've mentioned this before, but i'd even be happy with a compromise that kept on-foot missions but made them on rails. It'd keep the controls from being clunky and would still have some (slight) diversity in gameplay.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 08, 2009, 10:30:17 AM
If they do on foot missions then I really hope its not Factor 5 handing the new game
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: EasyCure on April 08, 2009, 10:32:50 AM
If they do on foot missions then I really hope its not Factor 5 handing the new game
Damn thats a really good point!
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Ian Sane on April 08, 2009, 01:10:03 PM
Quote
No the game still would have been poor because Rare had become a slacker studio by then, which is why Nintendo got rid of them. Even if the game got to remain Dinosaur Planet, the mediocre gameplay would have remained. Instead of getting a poor new IP, we got a poor Star Fox game instead.
Rare's previous games before SFA were Conker's Bad Fur Day, Banjo-Tooie and Perfect Dark. All were absolutely awesome. Okay, they did make Mickey's Speedway USA in that time as well which wasn't as hot but since that's a licenced title I cut them some slack for that since they were assigned it and likely weren't that interested in making it (and even then it sounds like a competent game from reviews). Star Fox Adventures is probably Rare's WORST game from their time with Nintendo. So I see it as an exception. Even Donkey Kong 64 was quite good, just a little over-ambitious with the collecting.
Rare's last Nintendo game was quite meh and Nintendo sold them to the competition so of course fanboys started acting like Rare was never that great or was clearly losing it. To suggest otherwise would mean that Nintendo screwed up and dropped one of their greatest assests and well we obviously can't have THAT. Yes Rare has not been the same since but I think the Rare/Nintendo team was what was special. That's what we lost.
I'm willing to cut some slack with SFA because of the situations regarding the development. First they had to move the game from the N64 to the Cube. Second they had to shoehorn Fox in there. All of this eats up time. Suddenly they have come up with some excuse to have Arwing stages. Suddenly they have to change the whole storyline to include the Star Fox characters. This is time and effort that could have been spent polishing the game. How well do you think Eternal Darkness would have turned out if SK had been asked to shoehorn the Zelda licence into it?
Keep in mind also that if you came up with this world and these characters and then some guy came in and told you to ditch them and turn it into an established franchise that that MAY be demoralizing. What Miyamoto did was a very corporate thing to do. I work as a programmer and when some higher-up commands some major change from above the product suffers because you lose your passion for what you were creating and cease giving a ****. The best games are the ones where you can tell the designers were really passionate about the game they were making. The best games are labours of love. Dinosaur Planet was an ambitious original title. Star Fox Adventures might as well be a licenced title since the situation regarding the design was almost identical. I don't think it's fair to say that if they were allowed to make the game they wanted to make that it would have turned out as poorly as it did. And keep in mind it was a very competent game it just seemed to have no soul. Kinda of suggests a team of very talented developers that were not passionate about the game they were working on and I think there's a pretty damn obvious reason WHY they would have no passion for it.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 08, 2009, 01:23:26 PM
Conker was technologiclly great but lacked substance and control refinement. Not to mention a game in limbo/development longer than PD. Scratch it off the list.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Ian Sane on April 08, 2009, 01:57:18 PM
Quote
Conker was technologiclly great but lacked substance and control refinement. Not to mention a game in limbo/development longer than PD. Scratch it off the list.
I won't. It was a great game that got unanimous praise until Rare and Nintendo seperated and Rare was retroactively crapped on. Before the revisionist history the only major Rare games that got crapped on were Donkey Kong 64 and Star Fox Adventures. And why do you care how long a game was in development? All that matters to me is how it turned out in the end.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: EasyCure on April 08, 2009, 02:15:38 PM
Conker was technologiclly great but lacked substance and control refinement. Not to mention a game in limbo/development longer than PD. Scratch it off the list.
I won't. It was a great game that got unanimous praise until Rare and Nintendo seperated and Rare was retroactively crapped on. Before the revisionist history the only major Rare games that got crapped on were Donkey Kong 64 and Star Fox Adventures. And why do you care how long a game was in development? All that matters to me is how it turned out in the end.
And Conker didn't turn out that gray. Sure when it came out it was the bees knees but i was a child then playing a MATURE game about singing poo, giving bulls the runs, giants with surprisingly little boners, oh and a giant mechanical furnace with steel balls that made sparks when they clapped together. Once the toilet humour wore off i was able to see the game for the gameplay and not the shock humor; and it was a mediocore one (at best).
Ask most people what their favorite part of the game was and they'll recall a cut scene (matrix for me) and not a part of the actual gameplay. Conker was a game with an identity crisis in my opinion. It starts off as a platformer, then the second half of the game it becomes a 3rd-person shooter. Why? Who knows. The multiplayer war games were pretty fun, i'll give it that.
DK64 sucked in my opinion too, to be honest. I was super excited for it but then i had to collect SO MUCH CRAP, i don't even know how i finished that game (or why). Theres no denying it lacked the magic that made DKC 1 and 2 fun. (3 never clicked with me..)
Oh and those banjo games weren't for me either. Guess i thought Rare wasn't all that hot back in the N64 days either. Only games i liked were GoldenEye 007 and Perfect Dark. ha!
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: ThePerm on April 08, 2009, 08:34:50 PM
i want a zelda game that alternates between styles, actually...i just want a zelda game!
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: Stogi on April 08, 2009, 08:37:37 PM
Ask most people what their favorite part of the game was and they'll recall a cut scene (matrix for me) and not a part of the actual gameplay. Conker was a game with an identity crisis in my opinion. It starts off as a platformer, then the second half of the game it becomes a 3rd-person shooter. Why? Who knows. The multiplayer war games were pretty fun, i'll give it that.
Conker multiplayer is the fucking **** dude. My friends and I still play it to this very day. When they remade the game for the Xbox I was appalled because they left out the most worthy part of the game. Between Beach and Heist, I think that Conker probably had one of the best multiplayer modes of all time.
While the single player was fun the first couple romps through, as you said once the toilet humor wears off it's nothing special.
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: EasyCure on April 09, 2009, 10:00:10 AM
Ask most people what their favorite part of the game was and they'll recall a cut scene (matrix for me) and not a part of the actual gameplay. Conker was a game with an identity crisis in my opinion. It starts off as a platformer, then the second half of the game it becomes a 3rd-person shooter. Why? Who knows. The multiplayer war games were pretty fun, i'll give it that.
Conker multiplayer is the fucking **** dude. My friends and I still play it to this very day. When they remade the game for the Xbox I was appalled because they left out the most worthy part of the game. Between Beach and Heist, I think that Conker probably had one of the best multiplayer modes of all time.
While the single player was fun the first couple romps through, as you said once the toilet humor wears off it's nothing special.
Beach was our favorite, Heist was good too but never played it as much. That was really it though.. maybe a few rounds of (cant think of the name) it was similar to capture the flag, you'd get to an enemies base and steal something, bring it back to yours and you'd be enclosed in this room wh ile everything around you gets gassed, killing off your opponents. That one was pretty fun.
We're getting off topic though. Back to Star Fox...
hm..
Title: Re: Star Fox creator says some stuff
Post by: ThePerm on April 09, 2009, 05:56:28 PM
well i was and adult playing a mature game when conker came out....I thought it was a great game then, it still is. Star Fox adventures wasn't a terrible game by any means. It is a game compared to zelda that just falls short. I was never a huge star fox fan, so it playing around with the universe never bothered me. I can imagine a far better star fox game than has been released, but game creation. Now thats an art.
