Post by: Luciferschild on April 13, 2003, 11:41:25 AM
Post by: Caliban on April 13, 2003, 12:22:27 PM
In my opinion this game is a masterpiece in terms of graphics and particularly the particle effects(smoke, fire, water...) even some enemies look outstanding, in terms of gameplay I see only two problems: 1- the picture box can only keep three photos at a time, 2- the guy from the Nintendo Gallery only accepts one photo at a time. Overall my WW experience was terrific and only Metroid Prime is comparable.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2003, 12:40:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luciferschild
*bunch of stuff*.
Now that was a weak argument. You've successfully (mis)judged a book by its cover, its table of contents, and its prologue.
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 13, 2003, 12:41:03 PM
I don't know how you can call the graphics in Ocarina of Time beautiful, specifically the scenery. While the graphics overall are great, the color scheme is sickening. Hyrule needed more colors. It probably didn't help that we start off in the Kokiri forest that looks like a big sewer with green crap smeared all over everything. There was a lot to be desired in OoT's world.
I'm not calling Wind Waker the greatest game ever, but it does a lot of things that Ocarina of Time needed to do. In my book, a Link to the Past still mops the floor with all of the Zelda offerings since its release.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2003, 01:05:25 PM
Post by: Caliban on April 13, 2003, 01:07:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by:VideoGamerX
The arrows over the other character's heads are to show you who you're locked on to. That was a major annoyance in Ocarina of Time because it was impossible to lock onto an enemy, know what you're locked on to, and change from enemy to enemy. It was a complete struggle to use the lock-on function.
I thought he (Luciferschild) was talking about the arrows for the bow, no wonder i was confused about his remarks on the arrows but still i see no problem with the L-targeting in WW it's the same or better than OOT.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2003, 01:13:47 PM
Post by: Strell on April 13, 2003, 02:28:18 PM
Good riddence to you. What can I say? The world needs more people with TASTE.
Here's a hint: Get over yourself and stop pretending that you're some sort of demigod because you consider your opinion worthwhile. It's not. Don't even respond to this, you've opened your mouth and removed all doubt, so to speak.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
Post by: TheCouch123 on April 13, 2003, 02:43:49 PM
Post by: Marcus Arillius on April 13, 2003, 03:36:10 PM
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Originally posted by: Caliban
Did you play "The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past " before in your life? If you did I don't see your problem about Wind Waker. If your anger towards WW is because of its graphics then you should be also annoyed about ALTTP which also looks cartoonish. ]\
I'm not taking either side here, but I don't see how you can use the "Link to the Past" argument to justify the graphics in Wind Waker. The graphics in link to the past were not "cartoony" at all. They were what they could do on the snes.
Post by: Mr_Denim on April 13, 2003, 04:27:14 PM
When I saw the first pics of Zelda on the net, like many others I was dismayed...I've since changed my mind. I was immediately taken with the new look when I saw it on my TV for the first time and held the controller in my hand. Nor do I give a flying fig what other people think of the game per se, nor any opinion they may have of me because I like it. *I* and mine enjoy it and are glad we made the purchase. It's bloody well fun...and this from a 'mature' gamer.
Post by: GoldShadow1 on April 13, 2003, 04:44:23 PM
I think LTTP is overrated, personally - not because of the graphics, but because of the dungeons. They are occasionally irritating and nowhere near as captivating as some of the ones from OoT and MM (Forest Temple, stone temple... utterly amazing). That said, LTTP is still a great game (especially on the overworld - I love to wander around, explore, and do a few side quests).
Anyway, I can't see how someone can hate WW that much. It's a brilliant game. Although the dungeons aren't as good as MM's from what I've seen (2 dungeons, not counting the first - if you've played the game, you know what I mean) the overworld is utterly amazing. I'd love to see more games on a sea setting, now that I can see how it works. Exploring around the vast ocean is very entertaining. There are so many things to see! Plus, the Battleship-clone guy is the most hilarious thing I've ever seen in a video game.
You know, thinking about this, I'd love to see a game like WW, but with a mix between seas and continents. It'd especially be cool to sail down a long river and see all sorts of different diversions. There could be two or three continents, with a huge ocean making up the rest, but done in a Zelda style, not Final Fantasy style where there are vast amounts of empty space with towns that all look the same. Anyway....
I'm not a big fan of Link's character design, but it's growing on me. I really don't see how someone can say the game is kiddy when sailing in the midst of a storm while rain pounds on your back and you approach a distant isle. The style is cartoony, but the gameplay is universal.
Post by: Luciferschild on April 13, 2003, 05:59:06 PM
Post by: Luciferschild on April 13, 2003, 06:27:55 PM
Post by: Ridley on April 13, 2003, 09:02:30 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 13, 2003, 09:08:57 PM
Post by: Kimchi on April 14, 2003, 01:45:21 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2003, 03:24:44 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 14, 2003, 03:46:35 AM
However it was very mindless and clearly geared towards young children. I think to dispute that is to look at it with blinders on. Every last objective in the game was spoon fed to you, if you could read you could finish Zelda without dying and without the use of a guide, even if you were 7 years old and have never played a Zelda game.
I wanted this game for so long, and am so dissapointed in the finished product. It really could have been brilliant. Its just to bad it isn't.
Post by: Syl on April 14, 2003, 05:57:57 AM
Period.
anyway, why are you comparing the graphics to the stuff in MM or OOT?
*SPOILER*] Hyrule field looks better cel-shaded anyway, if you played anywhere in the windwaker, you would know what im talking about. The most amazing part of the game is when you see Hyrule castle, and most of hyrule field, in all of its Cel-shaded glory. Hyrule has *always* been meant to be a cartoon, even OOT/MM had quite a few cartoony elements, the system just couldn't support it.
*END SPOILER*
Lucifer, its really your fault if you care so much about graphics, I loved windwaker, and I'm going to be going back to pokemon after I'm done typing this. Which im sure your going to make some sort of flame at me about after you read this post, but hey.. if you want to be a small minded fool. Be it, doesnt matter to me if you want to look like an unintelligent, blockheaded idiot.
Also: I'm already on my second game through of windwaker, did i mention amazing game?
Post by: The Omen on April 14, 2003, 06:05:27 AM
Post by: Strell on April 14, 2003, 06:44:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
I disagree about the graphics, as I thought the game looked wonderful in motion.
However it was very mindless and clearly geared towards young children. I think to dispute that is to look at it with blinders on. Every last objective in the game was spoon fed to you, if you could read you could finish Zelda without dying and without the use of a guide, even if you were 7 years old and have never played a Zelda game.
I wanted this game for so long, and am so dissapointed in the finished product. It really could have been brilliant. Its just to bad it isn't.
Sigh. "Whine whine, game is linear, whine whine."
You're going to have to show me a Zelda game where the plot isn't linear and where you aren't specifically told what to do for your next objective. Original Zelda's dungeons are NUMBERED, Zelda 2 was much the same way, LTTP is no different from WW, neither is OoT or MM.
I'll let you have your (wrong) opinion, but don't say the game wasn't brilliant. It was, it is, and it outclasses games left and right.
I think the source of a lot of people saying "OMG ZELDA SUXx0RS!"!"!"!!!"!""!" is the fact that Nintendo made it, and if they do one thing to alienate that fan, then the game sucks. NO VOICE ACTING. LINK LOOKS STUPID. CEL SHADING OMG. GAME DOESN'T ME DO WHATEVER I WANT, I CAN'T MOLEST THE PIGS. It's like this entire group of people is grasping at a straw of an argument and trying to pass it off as something significant, worthwhile, and credible. LINK'S EYES ARE BLACK. STUPID. UM...WATER ISN'T BLUE ENOUGH. STUPID. THE STUFF WITH THE THINGIES. STUPID.
If WW had been left in terms of Spaceworld demo, people would have screamed NO ORIGINALITY. So Ninendo does something different. OMG THAT SUCKS. There's no way to win. You just have close minded people like cubed and Lucifer running around that make up their minds before they play the game. Or they play about 3 hours into it and decide it sucks. I mean, people have told me it's a crap game because the Forbidden Fortress requires some stealth action. Wth? Last time I checked, Splinter Cel and MGS -RELY- on that kind of gameplay the ENTIRE game, and people call it amazing.
It's just hard to consider your opinion valid when your argument is so weak. That's all.
Post by: Luciferschild on April 14, 2003, 07:09:56 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 14, 2003, 07:12:26 AM
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You just have close minded people like cubed and Lucifer running around that make up their minds before they play the game. Or they play about 3 hours into it and decide it sucks.
pardon me?
I have played the game, from begining to end. I based my opinion on my experience with the game. The game was brutally boring IMO. I already said it looked brilliant, the control was also great IMO, but the "game" itself was terrible IMO.
I dont say this just because Nintendo made it, I could care less who makes what. I love wave race and Nintendo made it? I love Mario 64 and Nintendo made that?
Quote
Sigh. "Whine whine, game is linear, whine whine."
it is, how can you honestly say it isnt?
As for no voice acting, I really dont care. I just would rather not spend 1/3 of my gaming time reading, I have an extensive library of books for that.
I still have to wonder why you choose to throw around insults to prove your point. I see no need for it.
I am very open minded when it comes to gaming. I have all 3 systems and play a wide variety of games. So how can you say I am close minded, I honestly think that is very far from the truth.
Post by: Strell on April 14, 2003, 07:26:25 AM
Game is linear in the sense that, yes, unfortunately, you MUST do things in a specific order. But I took several hours off between the dungeons to just go around and find stuff to do, things to see, people to talk to. I had Triforce maps BEFORE I got into the Tower of the Gods.
The game is linear in the sense that you need to do dungeon A before B. But you don't have to go specifically to dungeon B after A. You can sail around and slap salmon for all the game cares.
That, actually, is pretty much the defenition of non-linearity. So I correct myself - I AM saying the game isn't linear.
Go compare it to, say, GTA. Same idea. You have missions, you do them in order. But there's a metric crapload of side quests/mini games/missions/etc that you can do instead IF YOU WANT. You've already said you don't like side quests and whatnot. So my previous point stands - there's just no pleasing you. You're going to latch onto something you hate and try with all your might to pass it off as valid. I guess there's no shame in such tenacity, but only if you live in Bizarro World.
And you say you love Wave Race and Mario 64? Then please, tell me what is so wrong about Sunshine, since you blaringly hate it so much, and it's essentially the same game. Chacnes are your reasoning for that isn't much stronger than what you've laid to Zelda. Just to let you know, I'm expecting a "I hate islands" reason, or something along that nature.
As far as insults go, I'm going pretty easy these days, since Bloodworth is no doubt watching me like a hawk. If calling you close minded is more an insult and less an observation, then I dunno what devices I have left afforded to me. I don't cuss, but I see such words thrown around without regard, as well as people flat out insulting people with words meant SOLELY for that nature. So you're really goign to haev to stop playing the "dont insult me" card, because it's far weaker than your current statements.
But you can try to prove me wrong. I'll say this - I'm not going to hold my breath.
Post by: Bloodworth on April 14, 2003, 07:37:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
As far as insults go, I'm going pretty easy these days, since Bloodworth is no doubt watching me like a hawk.
Heh, don't forget it...especially when both of you are around.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2003, 02:40:18 PM
Please make the distinction between what YOU thought of the game and the actual quality of it. I don't mind that you thought the game was boring, but that's because the game didn't appeal to you specifically, not because it was poorly made, which it most certainly wasn't. I can understand that you didn't like the game, although I completely disagree, but please recognize that the game WAS made almost perfectly.
Post by: ResidentEvil on April 14, 2003, 04:04:16 PM
Post by: Bloodworth on April 14, 2003, 04:15:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ResidentEvil
Just WHY would Nintendo put their "supposedly" biggest game on the market, up for free?
Umm..because it's a system seller. Same as Metroid. People are buying the system for this game despite what 14 year-olds on the Internet are saying.
Post by: Tygerqb12 on April 14, 2003, 04:42:31 PM
P.S.-Now my friend is thinking about buying a Gamecube.
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 14, 2003, 04:51:48 PM
).Sadly, I do feel Nintendo completely geared this game toward kids 10 and under. It's all because of the dumbed down damage reduction. I simply don't get why they let a flaw like this get by. If each monster hit took away even half a heart, the game would play a lot differently. As it is, I can go into a boss fight without any fairies. If I goof off, I'll come away half dead. If each time that boss was hitting me I lost a heart, I guarantee you I'd be going through fairies every couple of minutes. I also admit that a couple of the bosses have been way too easy. I've met some good challenging ones (challenging despite the lack of damage) but some of the others have been utterly disappointing.
People have a right to feel as if this Zelda was completely directed at a younger audience. The look is survivable, but as if that wasn't enough, Nintendo geared the damage down to a point that negates the possibility of dying. Is Nintendo trying to tell us something? It's really kind of inexcusable though I choose to overlook it because it's pure fun.
I still can't get over how I can fall from the top of a cliff and take no damage. I really do wonder... did Nintendo have five year olds in mind as the main audience? Accidents no longer hurt...
Post by: Kimchi on April 14, 2003, 07:53:53 PM
Post by: RahXephon on April 14, 2003, 08:39:53 PM
kids from 4-5 all the way through 30s and 40s are gonna be playing it. Nintendo probably thought, hmm.. well i dont want kids to not be able to do ANYTHING at all and never beat it, but i dont want adults to just finish it in one sitting. So i will make the game multi-dimensioned, with exploring everywhere and lots of extra stuff to do. And since I, THE GAME DESIGNER, LIVE IN JAPAN!!!! I will use the MOST POPULAR FORM OF ART WE HAVE. ANIME. and don't tell me its not anime, Kiki's delivery service, my neighbor totoro, princess mononoke, spirited away, even Grave of the Fireflies. Zelda, to me, should have a cheery and happy attitude. It is an adventure that you would of dreamed about when you were younger, traveling around, meeting people, finding stuff, and being the hero. These are the elements that "made" zelda. The darker atmosphere is, i think, only slightly apparent in OoT, and had it been possible graphically at the time, i believe we would have seen something that looked more like the WW.
I hope they use the cel-shading 100000 more times. I loved it from the first internet shot. I thought this book had a great cover.
Post by: Strell on April 14, 2003, 09:23:31 PM
Come to think of it, I swear Miyamoto has been watching some Miyazaki lately. The little forest creatures? Right. He din't watch Mononoke at ALL.
Post by: RahXephon on April 14, 2003, 09:33:45 PM
anyway, lots of exploring becuase Miyamoto gets all his inspiration form exploring the country areas of his hometown as a child. I think Link may somehow BE miyamoto.
Post by: RahXephon on April 14, 2003, 09:34:56 PM
you want difficult, dont get any heart containers and still beat the game, now go have fun.
Post by: Caliban on April 15, 2003, 07:15:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mouse_clicker:
"Hey, are you THE Caliban, from IGN? If so, I hope you can guess who I am."
Sorry to disapoint you but I've never been in the IGN forums, if that's what you were refering to.
Post by: VideoGamerX on April 15, 2003, 03:50:38 PM
This is no different than what I eventually resorted to with LttP (beat it without ever retrieving the masters word
). Yes... that is me bragging for no real reason like the dork I am... but that was the last challenge I found. I hope I get to know OoT and Wind Waker that well.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on April 15, 2003, 05:00:36 PM
SPOILER OF ENDING (ENDING SPOILER) [DONT READ IF YOU HAVEN'T COMPLETED The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker]
the ending was just too happy after the somewhat darker endings of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.. I think that Hyrule should have come back and then the people should have began to rebuild their kingdom... maybe not .. I guess that would be a happier ending than the real one... lo! why must the Hyrule i love dissapear?
Post by: RahXephon on April 15, 2003, 09:33:12 PM
Post by: GoldShadow1 on April 15, 2003, 10:00:58 PM
That pretty much rules out any valid points you may have had. You go watch Diablo cut scenes, you'll be fine, kid.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 16, 2003, 11:50:52 AM
Post by: "Sky" on April 16, 2003, 12:21:29 PM
Quote
I only have a few minor things to add to this conversation... I find it quite interesting that some of you complain about "flaws" in TWW that are apparent in OOT as well. I guess the cel-shading just makes you want to notice the flaws eh?
BTW, I've been playing OOT and TWW back to back and I find OOT's bosses just as easy as TWW's. Ganon in OOT was also quite possibly one of the easiest last bosses I ever fought. I seriously wanted to get hit by that guy cause I was baffled at him. BTW, I never had to use a fairy or a potion in either OOT or TWW.
OOT's dungeons are harder, yes. But not by too much. The only really "tough" dungeon was the Water Dungeon but that was because you had to go through the same thing over and over again. You change the water level, and find out that you have to go all the way around to do it again. The rest of OOT's puzzles weren't really that tough.
This it not a bash towards OOT, I love both OOT and TWW, but I still stand that now that people have a style for the game that they dislike they are going to start pointing out flaws in TWW that they ignored in OOT.
The person above me already mentioned Navi... so no need to sound too much like a broken record
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 16, 2003, 12:58:25 PM
Spoiler Warning
The King dies at the end for cryin out loud. No good character has ever died at the end of a Zelda game. Not only did he die but he basically committed suicide. That's pretty damn dark if you ask me especially when you consider this is a game aimed at all ages. Also Hyrule was destroyed at the end as well. Ganon was damn creepy too at the end. His insanity was practically on the verge of being disturbing. What more do you want? Did you want the whole damn world to blow up at the end or something. Games have to have some sense of completion at the end. You have to have a sense that you saved the day especially with a hero versus bad guy game. The ending reminds me a lot of the ending to Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. At the end Indie's girl dies (the King dies) and they lose the Holy Grail (Hyrule being destroyed) the thing they had been searching for the whole movie. At the very end though they still ride off into the sun set because they made it out alive and saved the world from the bad guys.
Post by: "Sky" on April 16, 2003, 04:03:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Gibdo Master
I don't understand this "the ending was too happy" stuff. I've seen it at quite a few other forums as well. This is the darkest ending to a Zelda game ever in my opinion.
I'm trying to figure that out myself...
Let's see...
SPOILER WARNING FOR THE ENDINGS OF JUST ABOUT EVERY ZELDA!
Legend of Zelda- We save the princess.
Zelda II: Adventures of Link- We waked the princess up.
Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past- We saved the whole kingdom and everyone who died is now revived.
Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening- The island is really a dream and it disappears along with all the inhabitants
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time- Everyone celebrates and dances around a campfire. The sages return. Link goes back in time to being a child again in order to reverse what has been undone thereby Hyrule is repaired from Ganon's reign. (hmm...)
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask- Skull kid and Link become friends. Link goes out on his journey again. All the people are happy.
Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages & Oracle of Seasons- Celebration at the end of one. Celebration at the end of the other.
Seriously... has there ever been a "dark" ending to Zelda? They've been pretty much all happy with the exception of Link's Awakening. This one was definitely less "happy" than the others. Even so I don't mind it. I mean take this situation: If we win a major war that would determine the fate of the world what would you expect from us? Obviously we'll all be happy and giddy and dancing around partying and celebrating that the world is saved from a terrible fate.
Post by: reyontoyeny on April 17, 2003, 01:35:14 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 19, 2003, 02:10:25 PM
I have to disagree with luciferschild and thecubedcanuck. I disagree with everything the first one said, but for cubed, while I agree with the graphics, I find the story and gameplay in WW to be amazing. The storyline makes me grin every time there's a new twist. I can understand how someone that never played OoT wouldn't fully appreciate the story, but even so, it's still pretty good. As for it being spoonfed. . . all stories are spoonfed. . . that's the point. Nearly every book, movie, and video game ever made is 'spoon fed'. If it weren't, you probably wouldn't understand it. Metroid Prime is one of the few games I can think of where the story isn't smashed straight through your mouth. You can completely ignore the plot if you want, and you need to learn stuff to understand it. But even so, I don't see WW as being obviously spoonfed. As for gameplay, I love the fighting, and while a good deal of the puzzles are easy, there are enough tricky ones to keep me happy. I haven't gotten to the cooperative levels, and I'm hoping they'll have some interesting puzzles. Sailing I don't mind, especially with the warp. If there's nothing to do while sailing, I'll clean my room or something while I wait; I don't mind, and I can accomplish 2 things at once. If something attacks me, well, then I DO have something to do. All the rest I find to be fun. I played this game for about 6 hours today and I'm still itching to play it. Very few games have ever done that to me before.
***SPOILERS***
Just a note: In the second trip to the Forsaken Fortress, I thought it was very cool when Valoo and the Ritos came and saved you and Tetra. . . you have friends that help you in all the games, but mainly by giving you items or advice. This is the one time that I can think of that some friends came and saved you, and it made me feel just plain good.
***END***
