Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on March 09, 2009, 10:45:08 PM
While Pokemon Gold / Silver is clearly an excellent pick for handheld GotY, Wario Land 3 will always be the #1 handheld game of 2000 in my book. I also played through Crystalis for GBC, although I've been told since then that it was a shoddy port.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 09, 2009, 11:03:21 PM
Ah yes, the year 2000...
People thought the world would end. Literally, it didn't. But I think things did change, some for the better, and some for the worse.
But this isn't a social studies class so I better shut up and bitch about games.
By 2000 Pokemon was still ruling my life with an iron fist. I had conquered nearly every cup in "Pokemon Stadium", played the GBC Trading Card game and squealed like a fangirl when I first saw "The Pokemon Movie". Of course, the arrival of Silver and Gold was an event. It ended up being my most played and discussed Pokemon game yet. I beat it several times and had a lot of lvl.100 Pokemon without the need of rare candy. My best friend and I were so hooked into the game that we openly brought out our GBCs, connected our games and traded Pokes before classes started.
"Pokemon The Movie 2000" wasn't as good as the first movie (if that is even possible) but I still enjoyed it.
Gaming wise, the Dreamcast, PSone and N64 ruled my life for another year. Mario Party 2 was amazing at the time of its release, feeling it was much better than the first one. On its release, I thought Kirby 64 was a cute and fun game, but not as good as the other Kirby games. When the topic about 2001 arrives I will explain why it has an emotional significance.
MAJORA'S MASK!
I don't care if people had issues with the time limit, it rocked my world and gave me nightmares for weeks! Why? I was playing the game so much that I started dreaming about the moon crashing into the world, and more than once I stared at it before we were engulfed in flames.
On the Dreamcast there was Shenmue...
Shenmue. So overhyped back then, but now an underrated classic. I really loved the game, and I still like the cheesy dialogue, stiff emotions and stilted acting. It was just so addicting being able to waste my time at the arcade before deciding to look for those sailors. It was almost...magical!
Banjo-Tooie! Well to be honest the game looked great, but didn't think of much of at the time. In fact, I was even a tad disappointed after the first game owned my soul and underpants! There was something about it that prevented me from enjoying the game.
Perfect Dark, like Goldeneye before it, was very overhyped, but multiplayer was very enjoyable.
Man, you guys remember "Hey you Pikachu!"? That game was so bad but so, so funny! One time I actually managed to annoy Pikachu by saying "f*ck"!
One big thing about the year 2000 is that this was when the PS2 was released. At the time I was a regular on IGN's Nintendo forums, and the console wars were heated. Just like RROD, casual gaming and blu-ray player is today's reasons to hate on a console back then the defective PS2s and the claims that it was the cheapest DVD player were constant taunts heard from Nintendo fans.
In my case, I could care less. I really wanted a PS2, especially after watching the great tech demos and the hilarious claim that it could render a scene from the Final Fantasy Movie in real time.
Not only was 2000 a great year of gaming it was also a great year for me as a person. I finished High School with the highest honors, something that surprised me since I wasn't that into school. I even got a standing ovation at the ceremony, something that higher honorees didn't get! It was also my first year of college...
Good times... Good times...
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Mop it up on March 09, 2009, 11:04:38 PM
Perfect Dark is still my favourite N64 game, so I quite disagree with the points of it being incompetent today. The controls are still excellent, the N64 controller works very well for FPS games with its layout and comfort, and the more resistant analogue stick makes aiming easier... but maybe this is more due to my own personal loathing of dual-analogue controllers. Its corridor levels are much better designed and make for better action than the open field levels in games like Halo, and its selection of weapons is staggering and includes pretty much any type you can think of.
The best feature of Perfect Dark is definitely the A.I. bots in the multiplayer mode. I know people will say that having online modes eliminates the need for bots, but I believe they're needed now more than ever. When you play online you are likely to find extremely skilled players who aren't even going to give you a chance; there's little hope of improving your skills if you're killed ten seconds after you respawn. Bots make for great practice because you can customize them to match your skill level, and even give them unique personality settings like moving really fast or slow, using only explosive weaponry, or having suicidal tendencies. Since I'm non-competitive my friends and I would never play the game against one another, but would instead always team up against the bots. It was a blast!
Doom still kicks big pink demon booty. Shame on you for implying it is archaic.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: NWR_Lindy on March 09, 2009, 11:23:46 PM
Of all games to have bots, Killzone 2 has them. And they're apparently really good. I wrote them off, but Mop's inspired me to give them a try.
My biggest beef with PD was its framerate. I felt they tried to do too much for the hardware. But MAN did that game have features out the wazoo. It was probably about five years ahead of its time in terms of its featureset.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on March 09, 2009, 11:41:00 PM
Yeah, obviously we aren't covering the Dreamcast or PS2. It's strange that even though I owned a Dreamcast, I really don't remember playing much for it in 2000. (I really had no business owning one, I neglected it so.) Sonic Adventure and Rayman 2 on Dreamcast were good fun in 1999, and I had some fun with the DC in 2001 as well.... but 2000 is a void for me. I didn't know much about the DC's library, that's for sure. I probably would have picked up Skies of Arcadia had I known of it at the time--I got it for the GameCube later.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 09, 2009, 11:44:12 PM
PD's biggest problem is that it tried to do too much on N64 and slowed to a crawl in regards to framerate. That really ruined the experience I had with it, which saddened me because it was well done otherwise.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Stratos on March 09, 2009, 11:47:15 PM
I disagree Mop It Up. I played Goldeyeye a few weeks ago with an old friend and just couldn't quite grasp the old scheme. I kept wishing for some dual analog action or even better, a mouse. I tried all of the different controller styles. It then ruined my ability to play Halo. At least my pride blamed it on that since I played so poorly last time.
Framerates never bothered me back then. I actually considered it to be like one of those Matrix-slow-motion scenes.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 09, 2009, 11:48:32 PM
I disagree Mop It Up. I played Goldeyeye a few weeks ago with an old friend and just couldn't quite grasp the old scheme. I kept wishing for some dual analog action or even better, a mouse. I tried all of the different controller styles. It then ruined my ability to play Halo. At least my pride blamed it on that since I played so poorly last time.
Framerates never bothered me back then. I actually considered it to be like one of those Matrix-slow-motion scenes.
And I suppose you imagined blurry or pixelated textures as a new generation Picasso painting?
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Mop it up on March 09, 2009, 11:51:48 PM
Control schemes are one of the most personal aspects of gaming Stratos, so there are no facts.
I can understand the framerate being a problem for some, because even back then it was pretty bad. It helps to switch off the hi-res mode, that makes it a little better. I don't have a problem with it because I've gotten adjusted to games with choppy framerates from all of the N64 games I've played, and from playing Doom on the Super NES (the fact that was even possible is impressive).
There's an overclock mod you can do with the N64 to make the framerate super-smooth, but it is far from easy. I ruined one of my N64 systems attempting it... :(
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 09, 2009, 11:53:56 PM
Yeah, obviously we aren't covering the Dreamcast or PS2. It's strange that even though I owned a Dreamcast, I really don't remember playing much for it in 2000. (I really had no business owning one, I neglected it so.) Sonic Adventure and Rayman 2 on Dreamcast were good fun in 1999, and I had some fun with the DC in 2001 as well.... but 2000 is a void for me. I didn't know much about the DC's library, that's for sure. I probably would have picked up Skies of Arcadia had I known of it at the time--I got it for the GameCube later.
If this was aimed at me I understand that this isn't about the other consoles. But I mention them alongside Nintendo's games because they played a big role in both my growth as a gamer and a Nintendo fanboy.
The launch of the PS2 was certainly big and it did affect the Nintendo community.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Stratos on March 09, 2009, 11:59:01 PM
I disagree Mop It Up. I played Goldeyeye a few weeks ago with an old friend and just couldn't quite grasp the old scheme. I kept wishing for some dual analog action or even better, a mouse. I tried all of the different controller styles. It then ruined my ability to play Halo. At least my pride blamed it on that since I played so poorly last time.
Framerates never bothered me back then. I actually considered it to be like one of those Matrix-slow-motion scenes.
And I suppose you imagined blurry or pixelated textures as a new generation Picasso painting?
No... Honestly, I never knew anything better. I'm sure that if we could all look back at old graphics we would say they sucked. I knew that the N64's graphics were pretty for their time and couldn't imagine much better than it.
Control schemes are one of the most personal aspects of gaming Stratos, so there are no facts.
I can understand the framerate being a problem for some, because even back then it was pretty bad. It helps to switch off the hi-res mode, that makes it a little better. I don't have a problem with it because I've gotten adjusted to games with choppy framerates from all of the N64 games I've played, and from playing Doom on the Super NES (the fact that was even possible is impressive).
There's an overclock mod you can do with the N64 to make the framerate super-smooth, but it is far from easy. I ruined one of my N64 systems attempting it... :(
I agree. I wasn't trying to correct you or anything there. Pretty neat about the N64 overclocking thing.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 10, 2009, 12:01:08 AM
There's an overclock mod you can do with the N64 to make the framerate super-smooth, but it is far from easy. I ruined one of my N64 systems attempting it... :(
That's really interesting. Seems like it would be a pretty simple feature to emulate.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Stratos on March 10, 2009, 12:09:18 AM
There's an overclock mod you can do with the N64 to make the framerate super-smooth, but it is far from easy. I ruined one of my N64 systems attempting it... :(
That's really interesting. Seems like it would be a pretty simple feature to emulate.
You'd also think that it would be easy to make it so that old games on the VC didn't have the same performance issues but that sadly doesn't happen.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2009, 12:13:14 AM
There's an overclock mod you can do with the N64 to make the framerate super-smooth, but it is far from easy. I ruined one of my N64 systems attempting it... :(
That's really interesting. Seems like it would be a pretty simple feature to emulate.
You'd also think that it would be easy to make it so that old games on the VC didn't have the same performance issues but that sadly doesn't happen.
I thought quite a few N64 games were sped up framerate wise on VC, like Star Fox 64? Maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on March 10, 2009, 12:14:30 AM
If this was aimed at me I understand that this isn't about the other consoles. But I mention them alongside Nintendo's games because they played a big role in both my growth as a gamer and a Nintendo fanboy.
The launch of the PS2 was certainly big and it did affect the Nintendo community.
I'd love people to talk about other systems in TalkBack--we're focusing on the Nintendo angle in the special. Talking about DC or PS2 games of 2000 are a nice complement.
On Perfect Dark: I own it and played through it, but could never get into it. I never liked the new weapons and their dual modes, and have always preferred Goldeneye multiplayer over PD....even when playing PD in a "Goldeneye" mode (level and weapons selection). Don't ask me why--I can't put my finger on it.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Mop it up on March 10, 2009, 12:23:15 AM
You'd also think that it would be easy to make it so that old games on the VC didn't have the same performance issues but that sadly doesn't happen.
Apparently it depends on how the game was programmed. I don't really know much about the technical aspect, but basically, with the overclock mod, certain games would simply run at 1.5 times the speed; Smash Brothers is one example. Such games would probably need to be reprogrammed to run at better framerates on improved hardware, but something like Perfect Dark should actually run smoothly on an emulator without modification to the game's coding.
In fact, if you play a Perfect Dark ROM on a PC emulator, it runs smoothly. I do not endorse this of course.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Stratos on March 10, 2009, 12:29:11 AM
You'd also think that it would be easy to make it so that old games on the VC didn't have the same performance issues but that sadly doesn't happen.
Apparently it depends on how the game was programmed. I don't really know much about the technical aspect, but basically, with the overclock mod, certain games would simply run at 1.5 times the speed; Smash Brothers is one example. Such games would probably need to be reprogrammed to run at better framerates on improved hardware, but something like Perfect Dark should actually run smoothly on an emulator without modification to the game's coding.
In fact, if you play a Perfect Dark ROM on a PC emulator, it runs smoothly. I do not endorse this of course.
I remember in my programming class they had us reprogram old games. Well, not completely recode them, but the prof had a set of older games that when run on newer windows versions would run very fast. Prof showed us how to go into the code and change the timing to fit the machine. He also said this was a sign of poor foresight and bad coding if it couldn't account for better hardware. The fact that PD behaves that way on better hardware shows how good the team at Rare was...or perhaps it was a side affect of designing it to work both with and without the Expansion Pak.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Rize on March 10, 2009, 03:37:12 AM
There's an overclock mod you can do with the N64 to make the framerate super-smooth, but it is far from easy. I ruined one of my N64 systems attempting it... :(
That's really interesting. Seems like it would be a pretty simple feature to emulate.
Well, unofficial emulators definitely bump framerates and resolutions with very few issues. whether or not this can be done while keeping up with Nintendo's quality standards and staying true to the original games is another story... but I've always wondered why it couldn't be an option (much like the PS2 offers compatibility mode for old games, but also a mode with smoothed textures).
You'd also think that it would be easy to make it so that old games on the VC didn't have the same performance issues but that sadly doesn't happen.
Apparently it depends on how the game was programmed. I don't really know much about the technical aspect, but basically, with the overclock mod, certain games would simply run at 1.5 times the speed; Smash Brothers is one example. Such games would probably need to be reprogrammed to run at better framerates on improved hardware, but something like Perfect Dark should actually run smoothly on an emulator without modification to the game's coding.
In fact, if you play a Perfect Dark ROM on a PC emulator, it runs smoothly. I do not endorse this of course.
Old 2D games were designed such that the game logic was coded on a frame to frame basis (the console was going to output 30 frames a second no matter what). If anything gummed up the process, the entire game slowed down. In later 3D systems, game logic was generally tied to a real-time clock and if anything gummed up the works, the game-logic trucked on while frames were skipped (resulting in the variable framerates that characterize most 3D games). Technically slow-down is possible in 3D games and frame skipping is possible in 2D games despite the conventions.
In fact, Zelda OoT usually slows down in the water temple as an example. This was unusual. Most 3D games, such as Turok 2, suffer from inconsistent framerates rather than slow down.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: ShyGuy on March 10, 2009, 03:48:11 AM
Wow.... Ty photo is even creepier than 1999 pictures of Lindy.
In 2000 I was busy playing CounterStrike and Deus Ex, but the Dreamcast had reignited an interest in console gaming...
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on March 10, 2009, 04:01:40 AM
Haven't you figured it out yet from the Cho Aniki pictures? We're trying to creep you out! ;D
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Justin Nation on March 10, 2009, 05:58:43 AM
Perfect Dark is still my favourite N64 game, so I quite disagree with the points of it being incompetent today. The controls are still excellent, the N64 controller works very well for FPS games with its layout and comfort, and the more resistant analogue stick makes aiming easier... but maybe this is more due to my own personal loathing of dual-analogue controllers. Its corridor levels are much better designed and make for better action than the open field levels in games like Halo, and its selection of weapons is staggering and includes pretty much any type you can think of.
The best feature of Perfect Dark is definitely the A.I. bots in the multiplayer mode. I know people will say that having online modes eliminates the need for bots, but I believe they're needed now more than ever. When you play online you are likely to find extremely skilled players who aren't even going to give you a chance; there's little hope of improving your skills if you're killed ten seconds after you respawn. Bots make for great practice because you can customize them to match your skill level, and even give them unique personality settings like moving really fast or slow, using only explosive weaponry, or having suicidal tendencies. Since I'm non-competitive my friends and I would never play the game against one another, but would instead always team up against the bots. It was a blast!
Doom still kicks big pink demon booty. Shame on you for implying it is archaic.
I don't know, it all comes across as rationalizing to me. The more you describe how it is good the more it seems like you're grasping at straws. Regardless of the merits of how they pulled it off or shoe-horned the control into the N64 controller if you actively play with either mouse and keyboard or the Wii-mote and Nunchuk at a minimum the N64 control is embarrassingly bad. If nothing else than for the immediate fact that you cannot accurately move and aim at the same time. With either scheme I described I can run backwards while picking multiple targets off and then spin and keep running in one fluid movement. N64... DEAD before I even began to try half of that. It just lacks capability.
I was actually being nice to PD in this based on how widespread the worship of it was at the time, so I truly went with what people seemed to more commonly believe was the best. Full disclosure? I loved all things Rare including Goldeneye up until somewhere around the point DK64 and JFG came out and then started to become bewildered. I was given Perfect Dark as a gift and I tried to get into playing it about 5 times for a total of maybe 3 - 4 hours and gave up on it. Just couldn't get into it. Totally failed to impress me or suck me in. Don't know what happened with the title that made me stand back and go 'Meh' but it just wasn't for me and I never understood the hype/worship of it at all.
As for Doom. Fond memories of the game, played it and Duke Nukem 3D a ton. If you loved them, don't try to go back and play them. I did. Crippling problem: No Y-axis aiming. DONE! It pains me so much to play it feeling like I can't truly move or do something so fundamental that I can't stand trying to do it. Basically I've found the furthest I can go back without pain is Quake since then we're to the point where you had reasonably functional aiming and control.
You want true FPS these days? Left 4 Dead. Co-operative multi-player, intense, zombie hordes, chaos, and in the one mode you get to play on the zombie side as a "boss zombie". Hard to express the level of joy I feel playing as a "Boomer", vomiting all over the survivors, and watching the zombie horde rush them in a frenzy. I practically giggle.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 10, 2009, 06:51:03 AM
With first person shooters it is always easy years later to look at them and say, "meh that didn't really hold up," but that is just the nature of the beast. However, I will disagree with a few things said about Perfect Dark.
Firstly, the game was extremely well done for the time, the lagging framerate is really the only offender, and at the time if you weren't really into PC gaming (or had a really shitty PC like me), that framerate didn't bother you.
Secondly, I believe you mentioned that the genre has improved by leaps and bounds. I would have to strongly disagree with you here. That mission/multiplayer formula may have been abandoned for crappy Halo-style gameplay, but that sure doesn't mean things have improved. The mission structure with multiple challenge settings and shifting goals gave the game ridiculous replayability. A number of friends and myself still lament the fact that first person shooters on consoles have taken a nosedive so quickly since Halo hit the scene. Rare even Halo-fied the damn prequel to Perfect Dark (play that and see what a freakin mess it is).
Third, you mention how bad the controls are. I would again have to disagree when comparing them to a standard controller. Comparing to a mouse and keyboard or Wii Remote just isn't fair as they are not really equals. I STILL play modern console FPS titles with the wonky ass controls of Goldeneye/Perfect Dark. No movement and look separation. I was able to beat both of those titles on OO Agent/Perfect Agent settings and unlock all of the cheats in the game.
Obviously, I'm a pretty big Perfect Dark fanboy, but I will definitely agree that the game is no longer playable today (just gave it a go about two months ago). The multiplayer is definitely bearable with up to 3 players, though the single player has such an atrocious framerate I don't even understand how I was able to deal with it. Majora's Mask would've been a close tie for me at the time for GOTY, but most likely I would've awarded the title to Perfect Dark. Comparing their merits today, it's obvious that Majora's Mask is the only playable one of the two.
/rant
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on March 10, 2009, 08:19:55 AM
Majora's Mask was only the second game I ever pre-ordered. (The first was FF VIII for PC) and probably remains my favorite N64 game to date.
I never got into console FPSes until Halo, so although I owned Perfect Dark, I never really liked it that much, and it didn't last in my collection very long.
The N64 was definitely my main gaming system in 2000 though. I'd be getting a PS2 in a year (which would be my first new console purchase ever) but in 2000 I was playing N64, and a bit of Saturn still. I'd picked one up used, but it also didn't last very long. Long enough to eventually play about halfway through Shining Force III.
I keep thinking that I was back on this site in 99/2000 but it must have been later because I was not on the site until after it was no longer named PlanetN2000.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Justin Nation on March 10, 2009, 09:13:14 AM
Secondly, I believe you mentioned that the genre has improved by leaps and bounds. I would have to strongly disagree with you here. That mission/multiplayer formula may have been abandoned for crappy Halo-style gameplay, but that sure doesn't mean things have improved. The mission structure with multiple challenge settings and shifting goals gave the game ridiculous replayability. A number of friends and myself still lament the fact that first person shooters on consoles have taken a nosedive so quickly since Halo hit the scene. Rare even Halo-fied the damn prequel to Perfect Dark (play that and see what a freakin mess it is).
If you consider Halo to be the shining example of the genre then I would agree it has gone nowhere. Halo is possibly one of the most over-hyped and highly-average shooter experiences I've ever had. I suppose as console shooters go perhaps it may be a highlight (considering the lack of competition really) but on the PC shooters have evolved a great deal.
While my love for Valve Software will certainly come through I give two single-player experiences that, for me, blow the likes of Perfect Dark away: Half-Life 2 (and its subsequent episodes)... and if you want the killer there is Portal. Hands-down one of the most creative gaming experiences I have had in ages mixed with a surprisingly compelling non-story and a terrific sense of humor. Shoot, to knock Perfect Dark or Halo off even go back to the original Half-Life. Highly diverse scenarios and environments to work your way through and some terrific experiences to get the adrenaline pumping.
On the multi-player end Perfect Dark and any game with only pretty much Deatmatch to offer truly has nothing at all to offer. If you want Deathmatch I recommend Quake Live. Play Quake with a plug-in through your browser. Free and highly accessible. But even that is twitchy and tired nonsense... really Deathmatch has has nowhere to truly go but down for years. If you want multi-player that blows anything Perfect Dark could ever offer away I give you as starters: Battlefield 1942 (while the oldest I still enjoy its accessibility the most), Team Fortress 2 (once I got the hang of what changed from Team Fortress Classic I was hooked), Counter-Strike (out-and-out brilliant if you can stand the learning curve and the community), and now Left 4 Dead (more squad-like play against masses of enemies and your survival is exponentially more difficult to ensure if any of the other survivors die, making for a new strategy for forced cooperation).
So if you're saying the shooter hasn't evolved I think it is a matter of what you're measuring against...
Third, you mention how bad the controls are. I would again have to disagree when comparing them to a standard controller. Comparing to a mouse and keyboard or Wii Remote just isn't fair as they are not really equals. I STILL play modern console FPS titles with the wonky ass controls of Goldeneye/Perfect Dark. No movement and look separation. I was able to beat both of those titles on OO Agent/Perfect Agent settings and unlock all of the cheats in the game.
"Comparing to a mouse and keyboard or Wii Remote just isn't fair as they are not really equals"?!?! Didn't you then just agree with my statement that the controls are now thoroughly exposed as being horrible? Still insisting on playing that way doesn't make them intuitive or better... I could play Street Fighter 2 on my SNES with the gamepad well enough but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have preferred to play on a real 6-button arcade setup. Success in spite of control doesn't end up proving much. As for being able to complete a game at a high difficulty level with the controls the game was made for I'm not sure what you think that proves? I could beat Doom with the original control it gave me but the game was made to be beat with that control. If I had to try to win matches in Quake without mouse aiming I would wager I wouldn't fare so well or if I did it would only be IN SPITE of the poor control... again not the best criteria.
Just I'd wager if you still consider Goldeneye or Perfect Dark capable of standing up or being playable for anything beyond nostalgic or appreciative value you haven't been playing much (or at least much that is any good) in the genre for the past 5+ years. In a time capsule you can appreciate them but if you're out to get your game on there's no comparison.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 10, 2009, 10:35:45 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to disagree that Valve doesn't make some stellar games. I absolutely love the entire Half Life series, as well as Portal, Team Fortress 2 (and Classic), and Left 4 Dead.
I believe that Perfect Dark, and Goldeneye by extension, are a unique breed of FPS. They offer an experience that has NEVER been duplicated successfully, and play uniquely in comparison to anything else in the genre.
When I mention controls, I say they are still fine because if people can stubbornly play Halo and the like with an Xbox controller, the jump back to an N64 controller is nothing big. The control is extremely similar (though a bit disjointed on the N64). As I mentioned in my other post, really the only thing that makes Perfect Dark unplayable is the framerate. Goldeneye is still very playable and very fun to this very day.
I'm very up on the PC shooter market, and I still think Perfect Dark/Goldeneye gameplay stands up because it is unique. It would be awfully shortsighted to say that just because <insert_game_here> is all the rage right now, that unique concepts are out-of-date or not fun anymore just because your current interests are different.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 10, 2009, 11:10:11 AM
I never played Perfect Dark, but I didn't like Majora's Mask. It was the whole time travel thing that I hated.
Totally agree about Pokemon Gold and Silver. I think I sunk around 600 hours into Silver (and around 800 on Crystal). That is why I was so disappointed with Ruby and Sapphire, they obviously looked better but I didn't think the games were as good. I know I am not the only one wanting a re-make similar to FireRed and LeafGreen.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2009, 12:00:35 PM
Goldeneye and PD did something similar (though not exactly) to what Bioshock did, in that they offered mini-sandbox levels with missions to accomplish that weren't always "run from one end to the other". They were linear with MANY non-linear elements.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Rize on March 10, 2009, 03:54:20 PM
For my part, I liked the Goldeneye and Perfect Dark controls the same way I like the controls in Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4. Yes they're weird and technically limited compared to modern games, but they had a unique feel that worked for the game. That said, they definitely needed to be put to rest. I also love the mission structure of GE and PD.
You want to play a game with truly terrible controls today, try Doom 64. I can still play Doom on the PC (and playing co-op Doom is still tons of fun imo).
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Mop it up on March 10, 2009, 05:38:08 PM
Regardless of the merits of how they pulled it off or shoe-horned the control into the N64 controller if you actively play with either mouse and keyboard or the Wii-mote and Nunchuk at a minimum the N64 control is embarrassingly bad.
I simply cannot stand to play games with a keyboard and mouse. A mouse is too precise for its own good, I find it to be incredibly finicky making fine-tuned aiming impossible. The Wiimote and Nunchuk setup is better but the N64 controller still works extremely well for FPS games; much better than any dual-analogue controller. The 1.2 setup -- where you move with the C buttons and look around with the analogue stick -- has all of the same functionality of the Wiimote + Nunchuk, and I have no problem moving around and firing at multiple targets at once. Of course, after over 800 hours of playtime it's easy to become accustomed to the controls.
As I said before, control styles are one of the most personal aspects of gaming. Since everyone has their own preferences, there is no universal setup which everyone is going to like.
Quote
As for Doom. If you loved them, don't try to go back and play them.
I love Doom and I still play it every now and then today. Not the PC version either, but the Super NES version. Since the game was designed around its limitations, I've never found any problems with it.
Quote from: Rize
You want to play a game with truly terrible controls today, try Doom 64.
I disagree with this. Doom 64 has fully customizable controls so you're bound to find a setup you like. I myself ditch the analogue stick and use the D-pad.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2009, 05:53:03 PM
Old obtuse N64 shooters play well with a potato plugged into a cheeseburger. Saying analog sticks work "kool" with those games isn't saying much.
And mice do suck. They're an inherent crutch for the PC side of the genre. Look! It's sitting on a desk! Even tho you're not touching it, it's already aiming for you! How amazing! Analog controls also "aim for you" to some degree as well. It all plays into the illusion of making players feel cool that they're "controlling" a floating virtual gun.
And they really do float -- let go of the mouse and the gun/camera still maintains the last known viewpoint for you. Try dropping a Wii Remote or a light gun and you get EL-OH-ELz.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on March 10, 2009, 08:09:11 PM
SO, um, anyone want to talk about non-FPS games of 2000 before this thread falls into the abyss?
I *love* Wario Land 3. It's such a carefully crafted game on multiple fronts: the treasures, which include power-ups, make the deceptively disparate levels intertwined not unlike a Metroid game. (Folks from Metroid worked on it, BTW.) I love Shake It, but I really wish it had taken more of this approach with its level design.... Anyway, the graphics are vibrant and detailed, with clever animations and subtle "shading". And the music is top notch, too.
So what is *your* favorite game that wasn't mentioned in the GotY 2000 write-ups?
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Halbred on March 10, 2009, 08:18:05 PM
Beetle Goddamn Adventure Racing FTW.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2009, 08:21:06 PM
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 10, 2009, 08:29:06 PM
Hmm I didn't get a chance to play Beetle Adventure Racing.
Other than Majoras Mask and Pokemon B,R,Y,G,S. I was playing Pokemon Stadium, WWF:No Mercy. and Excite Bike 64.
I managed to beat Pokemon Stadium fully. Excitebike 64 I played alot with friends. The Desert and Soccer Multiplayer games were great. No Mercy I got at launch and enjoyed it till the game erased my created wrestler.Aparently it was a bug in early copies. Oh well it was a great game.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 10, 2009, 08:31:10 PM
OMG I FORGOT ONE AWESOME GAME!!
MARIO TENNIS!
The original game rocked. I thought I wasn't going to like it, but I rented it like crazy. It was awesome seeing Daisy and Birdo after so many years being absent, and I thought Waluigi was weird.
Oh and "Beetle Adventure Racing" came out in 1999.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Mop it up on March 10, 2009, 08:32:43 PM
I have Wario Land II DX, that game is pretty awesome even although it is quite easy due to the "no die" system. Wario Land III has been on my want list for a while now... perhaps I should bump that one up closer to the top.
My cousin gave me Pokémon Gold because he didn't like it, and I wouldn't have ever owned it otherwise. It's a decent game but two things which really drag it down for me are the level grinding and not being able to collect every Pokémon without trading with other versions. Revisiting the world of the first game felt tacked-on due to so little events taking place there and the general lack of direction at that point.
Despite having few N64 releases the year 2000 was a great year for the system. My runner-up for that year would probably be ExciteBike 64, as that game is all kinds of awesome. It has a great mix of indoor and outdoor tracks, a few minigames to spice things up, a rather extensive track creator, and even the original ExciteBike but where the track save feature actually works.
Banjo-Tooie is another release which I believe doesn't get enough praise. The huge and detailed worlds which Rare managed to create without the Expansion Pak are truly breathtaking, and the variety of the game is simply staggering. The focus on collecting has been toned down, making it a much more enjoyable game than its predecessor.
I had some good fun with Mario Tennis as well. It may not have much in the way of content, but the gameplay is solid, the character roster includes both recent favourites and blasts from the past, and the multiplayer held its own amoungst titles like Mario Kart and Mario Party.
There are many other good titles as well, such as Paper Mario, Pokémon Puzzle League, Mega Man 64, Kirby 64... Awesome year!
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2009, 08:40:17 PM
Forgot about B-T being fin 2000, that would be my pick for GOTY. I LOVED that game despite the erratic framerate.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Justin Nation on March 10, 2009, 09:47:20 PM
I don't know why but as much as I loved Banjo-Kazooie I wasn't quite as enamored with Banjo-Tooie. Can only think the formula by then felt too formula and lost some luster. I do remember liking it but not obsessively playing and being compelled to finish it as with the original.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2009, 09:58:15 PM
I don't know why but as much as I loved Banjo-Kazooie I wasn't quite as enamored with Banjo-Tooie. Can only think the formula by then felt too formula and lost some luster. I do remember liking it but not obsessively playing and being compelled to finish it as with the original.
B-T was pretty different from B-K, it was far more open and less confined.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 10, 2009, 10:20:33 PM
I don't know why but as much as I loved Banjo-Kazooie I wasn't quite as enamored with Banjo-Tooie. Can only think the formula by then felt too formula and lost some luster. I do remember liking it but not obsessively playing and being compelled to finish it as with the original.
This is exactly how I felt. I still liked the game, but it didn't capture me as much as the first one did.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Stratos on March 10, 2009, 10:23:43 PM
I don't know why but as much as I loved Banjo-Kazooie I wasn't quite as enamored with Banjo-Tooie. Can only think the formula by then felt too formula and lost some luster. I do remember liking it but not obsessively playing and being compelled to finish it as with the original.
I agree with you about not being quite as enamored with B-T. I think my issue was the lack of mystery and intrigue. Remember the Stop N Swap, eggs and crystal key mystery? I remember being extremely let down with how they treated it in B-T. Did anyone else try the code that unlocked all the mystery areas from the teaser trailer at the end that allowed you to actually collect the eggs and key? That one is up there with the surprise Rogue Squadron code that unlocked the Naboo Fighter in my book. The uber Shadows of the Empire codes were another one, though I don't think they were as secret as the B-K and RS codes.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2009, 10:32:46 PM
QFT This warrants a reiteration. Didn't the ESRB list this early on as a VC release? I hope it does eventually come.
I will proceed to CREAM ALL OVER IT.
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Djunknown on March 10, 2009, 10:44:33 PM
The year 2000 for me in a nutshell.
First half:Re-playing Diablo I in anticipation for Diablo II. Signed up for the beta, but didn't get in (One of my friends back in high school did, oddly enough...)
Second Half: Diablo II. 'nuff said. 8)
When I wasn't tethered to my PC, I played Pokemon Stadium with my then little cousin when he came over to visit. He had his Pokemon leveled up from Gold/Silver, while I had to fight with 'rental' Pokemon. They grow up so fast... :'(
I'd like to point out some of Billy's reaction at Space World. Disclaimer: Hindsight/sarcasm is always 20/20.
Quote
First bit of hardware we got to see was the Gameboy Advance. We got to see the Silver and blue version. People gasped. Myself included. Very sleek looking.
Did they gasp since they had to hold it a perfect angle to see it properly :P
Quote
As far as the name is concerned, I love it. Gamecube. It says what it is. It’s a box full of love. You can sit in the message boards and forums and debate it all you like.
Talk about Déjà vu... :o
Quote
Ganon and Link going at it. Hell yeah. There’s a lot happening in a little time frame. Look at how the clothes and hair of each of the characters flow in this. Do not doubt that this title is fully in the works.
One of the biggest bait n switches in history... :P
Quote
Joanna Dark. Yea. A render. It is interesting. Because Perfect Dark isn’t even out in Japan yet. I’m sure it’s coming though. Online death matches! Clan PlanetN2000? Oh yeah baby, I’m all over that concept. With the new broadband adapter it’s a no brainer. Bring it.
Man, if we only knew what was really happening behind the scenes...
Can't wait for the insight in 2001!
Title: Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2000
Post by: Stratos on March 10, 2009, 10:49:46 PM
Joanna Dark. Yea. A render. It is interesting. Because Perfect Dark isn’t even out in Japan yet. I’m sure it’s coming though. Online death matches! Clan PlanetN2000? Oh yeah baby, I’m all over that concept. With the new broadband adapter it’s a no brainer. Bring it.
Man, if we only knew what was really happening behind the scenes...
Can't wait for the insight in 2001!
Yeah, if only we knew so many things in regards to this. Rare sold off and only two games that truly supported the bb adapter and no online from Nintendo. What year was Warp Pipe made for MK online play? That will be an interesting year to read about. I remember a forum thread where it was mouse_clicker versus the rest of the forum in regards to online.
