NWR Interactive => Podcast Discussion => Topic started by: Jonnyboy117 on March 08, 2009, 01:08:01 PM
Title: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 08, 2009, 01:08:01 PM
*2nd-place games carried over from previous poll. (They tied last time.)
NOTE: All five of these choices are available on Virtual Console! Prices may vary by region.
This poll will end on Thursday, March 19th.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 08, 2009, 01:14:25 PM
Well I'm going to vote for Secret of Mana.I think it will be a good game to talk about. Great Co-op game. Not bad single player game.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 08, 2009, 03:21:57 PM
Finally, a RetroActive I can get behind. :D (Knowing my luck, Secret of Mana will win. I just played it a couple of months ago.)
I'm going to throw my vote in for NINJA SPIRIT, seeing as how I was the one to nominate it (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=27408.msg488030#msg488030).
I'd like to nominate Ninja Spirit. It's a platformer for the TG-16 meaning it's perfect because no one's ever played it before. ;D It's fairly similar to Ninja Gaiden, but much more playable from what I hear (read: it doesn't have a batshit insane difficulty level).
It has been recommended by Jeremy Parish (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3159515) as well as our own Steven Rodriguez (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/vcArt.cfm?artid=13461).
Fun fact: It was the first game to ever receive a perfect 10 from EGM.
Doesn't it sound fabulous? ;D
EDIT: Can I request that this and future polls allow for vote switching? If I'm the only one who's going to vote for Ninja Spirit, I may change my vote later on if it will affect the poll in my favor. Thanks!
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Mop it up on March 08, 2009, 05:38:31 PM
I voted for Wave Race 64 because it's an N64 game and it's nice to discuss a game which people have actually heard of. :P
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 08, 2009, 08:44:23 PM
I don't do downloads. Original or bust! So I guess the point of this isn't to play a game in its original form?
I always figured it was about playing older games. Plus the easier it is to acquire, the more people can participate. Including VC games allows for people who don't own old systems to be able to participate. The more the merrier.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Mop it up on March 09, 2009, 12:46:37 AM
If people don't own the system that the game appears on then the VC is a viable option, but I thought it was encouraged that people play the original game on the original system with the original controller. If you want to discuss a game's legacy it helps to do so by experiencing it in the same way everyone else did when it was first released. Games can still be appreciated in their emulated forms, but sometimes it can be difficult to "get" a game unless you play it in its truest form.
It can be difficult to understand if you're not a collector...
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 09, 2009, 02:44:30 AM
I'm not a collector. At all.
We have never, never suggested that people go find an original copy for RetroActive. In fact, all four of us played the first game, Dynamite Headdy, on Virtual Console.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 09, 2009, 02:49:16 AM
Hey it's your prerogative Mop_it_up weather you play it through VC or original cart.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Dasmos on March 09, 2009, 03:16:42 AM
I swear if SG'n'G comes second again, I'm just going to screw this whole thing and play it anyway.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 09, 2009, 05:16:40 AM
I'm torn between Cho Aniki and Ninja Spirit. I need another TG-16 game to go with Ys.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 09, 2009, 03:15:12 PM
Can I request that this and future polls allow for vote switching? If I'm the only one who's going to vote for Ninja Spirit, I may change my vote later on if it will affect the poll in my favor. Thanks!
I'd like to repeat this request. Right now Super GNG is in third place with 2 votes. If it comes down to it I'd like to change my vote so it's tied for first.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 09, 2009, 03:18:59 PM
Can I request that this and future polls allow for vote switching? If I'm the only one who's going to vote for Ninja Spirit, I may change my vote later on if it will affect the poll in my favor. Thanks!
I'd like to repeat this request. Right now Super GNG is in third place with 2 votes. If it comes down to it I'd like to change my vote so it's tied for first.
That's why I'm waiting till near the end of the poll to throw in my opinion. Especially with the tie going on right now. There's still ten days for the poll to run so we'll see how it goes.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NovaQ on March 09, 2009, 04:09:27 PM
Go SoM, go!
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on March 09, 2009, 09:10:34 PM
Wouldn't allowing vote-changing lead to chaos and deception? I don't like that.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 09, 2009, 10:07:45 PM
Wouldn't allowing vote-changing lead to chaos and deception? I don't like that.
We'd have more drama than at a real election! I agree with you though. It's simpler if you only get one shot at it. If anyone is worried about their vote not 'counting' then just wait a few days before casting your vote.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 09, 2009, 10:54:08 PM
It's simpler if you only get one shot at it. If anyone is worried about their vote not 'counting' then just wait a few days before casting your vote.
That's great, until everybody starts doing the same thing.
I don't understand why we can't change our vote if we're backing an obvious loser. I'd much rather jump on my second choice than see a game I'd rather not play win for the fourth time in a row.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 10, 2009, 02:36:15 AM
Can I request that this and future polls allow for vote switching? If I'm the only one who's going to vote for Ninja Spirit, I may change my vote later on if it will affect the poll in my favor. Thanks!
I'd like to repeat this request. Right now Super GNG is in third place with 2 votes. If it comes down to it I'd like to change my vote so it's tied for first.
That's exactly why I haven't allowed vote-switching. Vote for the one you want the most. I'm tempted to not even allow people to view the results until after they've voted. This wishy-washy crap has no place in democracy!
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 10, 2009, 01:56:18 PM
Congratulations--you just killed any hope of a "smaller" game ever winning RetroActive. No one's going to vote for anything unless they think it's a sure-fire winner.
It's going to be exactly like monthly WiFi night where we switch between Brawl and Kart every month.
I hope you and the podcast crew enjoy playing the same games again because you're never going to get to play a hidden gem.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 10, 2009, 07:37:08 PM
Congratulations--you just killed any hope of a "smaller" game ever winning RetroActive. No one's going to vote for anything unless they think it's a sure-fire winner.
It's going to be exactly like monthly WiFi night where we switch between Brawl and Kart every month.
I hope you and the podcast crew enjoy playing the same games again because you're never going to get to play a hidden gem.
Perhaps that is why he is considering blocking people from viewing the results until after they vote. And with that in mind I'll just vote for the one I am most curious about.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2009, 07:44:29 PM
ROFL at the same game every week. We may miss gems like SGNG that about everyone has played! I think the Retroactive Game challenge can be about both, a second look back on games we once thought were great along with finding some new surprises.
If you can't make the poll private, why not just have people PM their vote?
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 10, 2009, 10:29:56 PM
I'm a bit more open-minded about what RetroActive's purpose is, but I can see how different people get different things from it. Mop It Up looks at it from a collectors angle, and Vudu looks at it as a chance to experience the 'underrated classics of old'. I personally enjoy that it is a chance to play games with other forum members and it lets me feel like I'm really a part of the podcast with our awesome staffers.
PS- Vote for Ninja Spirit! I endorse Ninja Spirit as the awesome-est candidate for RetroActive.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 11, 2009, 11:10:21 AM
vudu, your logic is... illogical. Why would you want to vote for the game that's already winning, just because it's already winning? And this idea of playing the same games every week makes no sense and doesn't reflect the already varied set of RetroActive games. I'm very careful about choosing which games go into the polls. There's a reason I didn't include any GameCube titles this time.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NWR_Neal on March 11, 2009, 11:16:02 AM
I'm the only person that voted for Cho Aniki. Sadness....
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 11, 2009, 01:54:26 PM
There's a reason I didn't include any GameCube titles this time.
So you admit the only way to keep GameCube and/or N64 games from winning the poll is to not put them in the options?
The demographics of the site are skewed towards people who first got into gaming during the N64/PSX generation (or even the GCN/PS2/Xbox gen.). You're not going to get very much support for NES or SNES games (not to mention TG-16 or NEOGEO) unless they're huge games that the majority of us have all played before--the Marios, Metroids, Zeldas, etc.
vudu, your logic is... illogical. Why would you want to vote for the game that's already winning, just because it's already winning?
That's not what I meant. Perhaps my post was poorly worded. Let's use an example to clear things up. I'm going to simplify things to make it easier to explain.
Suppose you have 10 people who are going to vote for their choice of 3 games--Super Mario Bros 3, Super Metroid, and Ninja Spirit. 5 of those people have no interest in playing (or hearing about) SMB3 (played it to death, hate Mario, whatever reason). The other 5 have no interest in Super Metroid. Most of these people don't have any prior experience with Ninja Spirit--they might be open to it, but they don't know enough about it to commit.
If votes can't be changed (and can't be viewed until after voting) the first group is going to all vote for Super Metroid and the second group is all going to vote for SMB3. No one is going to vote for Ninja Spirit. Why? Because group A wants to make sure that SMB3 doesn't win and group B wants to make sure Super Metroid doesn't win. The best chance of each group getting their way is to select the game they feel has the best chance of beating the game they don't want.
The result is RetroActive will be stuck playing all the big games that have already been played numerous times in the past and discussing all the big games that have already discussed to death on the Internet. I didn't mean you'll be playing the same game every week--I meant every week you'll play a game that you most likely played before.
The only way you'll be able to avoid this is to influence the results by selecting which games are up for vote. Personally, I'd prefer if you just selected which game will be played every week instead of the current method.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 11, 2009, 05:21:08 PM
Even though I would love to hear you guys talk about Secret of Mana, I think it would be interesting to hear you guys talk about Cho Aniki (even if it is not as homoerotic as the later games in the series).
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 11, 2009, 06:26:08 PM
There's a reason I didn't include any GameCube titles this time.
So you admit the only way to keep GameCube and/or N64 games from winning the poll is to not put them in the options?
The demographics of the site are skewed towards people who first got into gaming during the N64/PSX generation (or even the GCN/PS2/Xbox gen.). You're not going to get very much support for NES or SNES games (not to mention TG-16 or NEOGEO) unless they're huge games that the majority of us have all played before--the Marios, Metroids, Zeldas, etc.
vudu, your logic is... illogical. Why would you want to vote for the game that's already winning, just because it's already winning?
That's not what I meant. Perhaps my post was poorly worded. Let's use an example to clear things up. I'm going to simplify things to make it easier to explain.
Suppose you have 10 people who are going to vote for their choice of 3 games--Super Mario Bros 3, Super Metroid, and Ninja Spirit. 5 of those people have no interest in playing (or hearing about) SMB3 (played it to death, hate Mario, whatever reason). The other 5 have no interest in Super Metroid. Most of these people don't have any prior experience with Ninja Spirit--they might be open to it, but they don't know enough about it to commit.
If votes can't be changed (and can't be viewed until after voting) the first group is going to all vote for Super Metroid and the second group is all going to vote for SMB3. No one is going to vote for Ninja Spirit. Why? Because group A wants to make sure that SMB3 doesn't win and group B wants to make sure Super Metroid doesn't win. The best chance of each group getting their way is to select the game they feel has the best chance of beating the game they don't want.
The result is RetroActive will be stuck playing all the big games that have already been played numerous times in the past and discussing all the big games that have already discussed to death on the Internet. I didn't mean you'll be playing the same game every week--I meant every week you'll play a game that you most likely played before.
The only way you'll be able to avoid this is to influence the results by selecting which games are up for vote. Personally, I'd prefer if you just selected which game will be played every week instead of the current method.
I voted for Ninja Spirit... Then again I don't care as much which game is picked, there has yet to be one in the polls that I am revolted by and I don't think there has yet to be one nominated that I am opposed to playing either.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NovaQ on March 11, 2009, 10:55:20 PM
Even though I would love to hear you guys talk about Secret of Mana, I think it would be interesting to hear you guys talk about Cho Aniki (even if it is not as homoerotic as the later games in the series).
Haven't they done this a few times already on the RFN podcast? Well, Lindy has, at least.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 12, 2009, 12:17:44 AM
They have touched on it briefly, but have never gotten really hands-on with this hard game that really stands up erect among Virtual Console games (yes I did try and get and get as many innuendos in that sentence).
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 12, 2009, 03:03:17 AM
I believe in keeping this feature semi-democratic, since we are asking you listeners to play along with us. Trust me to keep choosing interesting games among the suggestions, and I'll trust you all to vote for the game you are truly most interested in playing and hearing about. As I've said before, games that don't win will eventually rotate around to appear in another poll, where the dynamic could be totally different. I think our discussions so far have been really interesting, and I expect they'll continue to be so as long as we are choosing from a good set of games and people actually participate and contribute their thoughts on the games. If things get stale, I'll consider revamping the selection process or something more drastic, but the voting process seems to be working just fine so far!
By the way, maybe Luigi's Mansion and Eternal Darkness both won because people thought they would elicit the best discussions. It's too small a sample size to make inferences about platform bias. I have no problem talking about GameCube titles, anyway. The reason I avoided GC in the current poll is not because I think the platform automatically dominates, but because I wanted to enforce some variety. I'd do the same if we had multiple NES/GEN/TG-16/etc. games in a row.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Armak88 on March 12, 2009, 03:35:08 AM
hmmm, I've been meaning to pick up SoM on VC for some time now. I don't think I'm going to vote, but if SoM wins I'll buy it and play along. I've never played it before, so I'm curious, especially since I played a fair number of RPG's on the SNES.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: D_Average on March 12, 2009, 12:27:17 PM
Man...Waverace isn't going to win this one, bummer.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NWR_Neal on March 12, 2009, 04:53:21 PM
Go Cho Aniki Go! It still has a chance!!!!
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 12, 2009, 05:37:04 PM
To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NWR_Neal on March 12, 2009, 05:50:42 PM
To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.
I was being a bit facetious....
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 12, 2009, 06:03:04 PM
To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.
I was being a bit facetious....
oh... :-[ I guess I'm a bit gullible because I read your post and immediately scrolled up to see what the current standings were. :rolleyes: Cho Aniki would be a pretty big upset at this point.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NWR_Neal on March 12, 2009, 08:00:15 PM
To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.
I was being a bit facetious....
oh... :-[ I guess I'm a bit gullible because I read your post and immediately scrolled up to see what the current standings were. :rolleyes: Cho Aniki would be a pretty big upset at this point.
I still have hope...MAN-BEAM hope.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 12, 2009, 08:01:24 PM
To what, place second? SGNG and Wave Race seem to be in hot competition for that spot. If SGNG places second again I may consider just voting for it next week. That game has been quite tenacious in the polls.
I was being a bit facetious....
oh... :-[ I guess I'm a bit gullible because I read your post and immediately scrolled up to see what the current standings were. :rolleyes: Cho Aniki would be a pretty big upset at this point.
I still have hope...MAN-BEAM hope.
On the next poll it is on you should dispense with the title and just name it "The NAM-BEAM Game!" That would be a sure fire winner.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NWR_Lindy on March 14, 2009, 08:34:11 PM
I don't think my vote will surprise anybody.
If only there were more of the Cho-Aniki games on VC...we could do a Cho-Aniki theme week.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 15, 2009, 01:44:16 AM
If only there were more of the Cho-Aniki games on VC...we could do a Cho-Aniki theme week.
It makes me wonder, if enough of us D/L certain games, could it boost sales enough to encourage companies to bring over sequels? If the feature grows and we get several dozen people D/Ling a game it could help get publishers attention.
Also, wow at Cho Aniki's boost in popularity. If it gets another surge like this it could pull that major upset. It may already win the return ticket.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NovaQ on March 15, 2009, 12:20:41 PM
In case anyone is still wondering which game to vote for (vote Secret of Mana), here are the possible discussion questions I came up with in my nomination for SoM:
Quote
1. What happened (has happened) to the Mana series? SoM seems to be the most celebrated entry of them all. Why haven't any of the newer games garnered as much praise? Are there any great post-SoM game that simply haven't received enough recognition?
2. Could a more straight-forward sequel to SoM be successful now? Would it be a good fit for Wii? If so, how (3D or 2D, online or offline, split-screen or single-screen, etc.)?
3. Are there any games as of late that have carried SoM's torch, so to speak (similar gameplay qualities but in 3D)?
4. SoM does a fine / functional job of handling multiplayer for an ARPG and, aside from extra controllers, doesn't require any additional hardware or peripheral purchases (anymore). SquareEnix's more recent foray into multiplayer ARPGs, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, mostly does - or at least is compromised by such needs. (Except for My Life as a King and the upcoming Crystal Bearers, all of the titles require additional hardware, like multiple DS', to be fully enjoyed. Echoes of Time for Wii has oddly cramped screens and DS graphics so... blah.) Anyway, should SquareEnix favor the SoM model of handling multiplayer ARPGs in the FFCC titles?
(5. Why did SoM's direct sequel, Seiken Densetsu 3, never come out for non-Japanese SNES'?)
I mistook the voting deadline as this past Thursday and downloaded SoM thinking it had already won. A friend and I started playing it yesterday and we're possibly having more fun than when we played it in our childhoods. If you have at least one other person to play with (and maybe even if you don't), you should vote SoM!
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 15, 2009, 12:28:12 PM
Secret of Mana has been discussed to death. If you want to listen go a good Mana podcast, check out Episode 23 of Retronauts (http://www.1up.com/do/minisite?cId=3156908) where they discuss the entire series.
How about picking a game we haven't all played multiple times?
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NovaQ on March 15, 2009, 01:02:34 PM
Secret of Mana has been discussed to death. If you want to listen go a good Mana podcast, check out Episode 23 of Retronauts (http://www.1up.com/do/minisite?cId=3156908) where they discuss the entire series.
How about picking a game we haven't all played multiple times?
Well, Eternal Darkness is a title that practically begs for multiple play-throughs, and there was still enough interest in it to be RetroActive game #3. As for SoM, I may be an odd case, but I only played one previous game file before the one I started yesterday and never finished that previous game. I wasn't able to play it very regularly that time, and my childhood friend and I kept having trouble remembering what we were supposed to do. As long as I finish it this time (and I suspect I will), it will be my first time through the whole game.
And while there are other podcasts about the Mana series (and surely Mana fan forums to peruse and post in), a discussion of the game/series by the RFN crew will have its own unique spin on it that I'm looking forward to hearing.
That all said, if I had a second vote, I'd use it for Ninja Spirit. I hope it makes it to another round so we all have a chance to play it. We just played a lesser-known 2D sidescroller several weeks ago with Dynamite Heady, though, so I can wait a while longer to play NS.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: IssunZX on March 15, 2009, 03:35:29 PM
My vote ended up going towards Secret of Mana. It's one of those games I downloaded but actually haven't played yet. I'd like to get into it though (since I loved Seiken Densetsu 3... which I would love to see an official English release of... wouldn't we all?).
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 15, 2009, 07:27:49 PM
I played most of SoM back in the 90s, but I never owned it until VC, and I've never actually played it from start to finish. If it wins the poll, I plan to try some co-op, since I played it alone the first time.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Mop it up on March 15, 2009, 09:43:50 PM
I've never played Secret of Mana. I own Secret of Evermore though, and I haven't played that either. However, I can't bring myself to pay for a download, and the original cartridge costs too much for a game which doesn't look like something I'd enjoy. Unless I can somehow convince you to switch to Secret of Evermore instead, unfortunately I won't be able to participate in the retroactive discussion yet again. :(
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 15, 2009, 11:11:20 PM
Mop_it_up couldn't someone just gift it to you?
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 16, 2009, 01:01:35 AM
Sorry Mop, we aren't going to cater to your bizarre anti-downloadism.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Mop it up on March 16, 2009, 02:16:19 AM
Maxi: I wouldn't ask anyone to do that (here or otherwise) because I doubt I could return the favour.
Jonny: I don't see what's so strange about not liking downloads. Settling for a download over the original would be like if I had asked for a Guinness and received a Budweiser instead. Why should I pay for watered-down piss in a bottle?
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 16, 2009, 11:18:24 AM
No, it's like if you ask for a Guinness draught and instead get a Guinness can. It's the same beer, just different packaging. You're being esoteric. And that's your right, but I'm not going to impose it upon everyone else with this feature.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 16, 2009, 07:37:33 PM
Yeah! 40 people voted! And Ninja Spirit got 4 now. 2nd is a pretty intense fight right now. All three could still walk away with the return ticket.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Mop it up on March 16, 2009, 07:42:44 PM
I'm not going to impose it upon everyone else with this feature.
I wouldn't ask for that. In the beginning I wrongly assumed it was encouraged (though not required) that people play the original games, but that's just because I believe it's the best way to experience a game's legacy. My point though, is that I don't understand (and probably never will) why anyone would think it is strange to prefer the original over a download. I don't think it is strange that you people like downloads, so it seems a bit of an insult to have my beliefs labeled as "bizarre".
As for the esoteric comment, I'm going to take that in the sense of being enlightened. ;D
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 17, 2009, 02:01:49 AM
I don't mean "bizarre" as an insult. And, cost/availability aside, I completely understand why someone would prefer the original version with all its physical accessories, original controller, and perfect operation. What I don't understand is your assertion that you would rather not play a game at all than download it. Maybe if the digital copy is bad as to corrupt the game's artistic delivery, but Virtual Console emulation is actually spectacular.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Mop it up on March 17, 2009, 03:52:29 AM
There's something about a download, I just can't bring myself to pay for it. If I'm spending money on something, it has to be a physical thing that I can actually hold in my grubby paws, otherwise it doesn't really feel like I own it, like it is my own. It almost feels like a counterfeit. If I were to go the route of downloading games then I'd choose PC emulation because that is free; I don't care about the legality of it. But I don't do that either because the experience of playing the original is worth paying for. If I can't get the best experience however, anything else isn't worth my time.
If you're not a collector then this probably isn't something you'd understand. We're an eccentric bunch.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 17, 2009, 04:17:09 AM
There's something about a download, I just can't bring myself to pay for it. If I'm spending money on something, it has to be a physical thing that I can actually hold in my grubby paws, otherwise it doesn't really feel like I own it, like it is my own. It almost feels like a counterfeit. If I were to go the route of downloading games then I'd choose PC emulation because that is free; I don't care about the legality of it. But I don't do that either because the experience of playing the original is worth paying for. If I can't get the best experience however, anything else isn't worth my time.
If you're not a collector then this probably isn't something you'd understand. We're an eccentric bunch.
I understand what you mean with having something physical. I still prefer getting a CD or game at a store as opposed to D/Ling it. Only this last year have I really begun to cave in the music department and that is only with certain bands. My favorite artists I will always buy the physical CD if possible.
I also have a strong feeling personally with regards to the legality of D/Ling games. I want to see that my money is supporting game studios and helping to ensure new efforts from them in the future. Sin and Punishment is a great example of this as Nintendo noticed that the S & P D/L was a success and that green-lighted the sequel. I Still hunt for old games on Amazon, eBay, game boutiques and at Good Will type bargain/resale stores. But if I could have the option of D/Ling Ogre Battle 64 even though I just won a copy on eBay a few weeks ago I might just do it to hopefully tell Square to make more of them.
One curious matter, you said that you feel like D/Ling a game on VC is like a counterfeit, but you are OK with D/Ling on the PC through illegal ROM emulation. I may be miss understanding you here but it sounds like you have a bit of an issue paying for the D/L. Or is this just linked to you placing the monetary value on the actual disks and carts? I'm not condemning you if you use PC ROM emulation, I'm just trying to understand what you as saying.
On a completely different note: Jonny, how do you plan to cycle in games from previous polls? Will you just slip them into new polls over time or will you have a poll on occasion where the rejected titles collectively get a shot at victory?
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 17, 2009, 01:45:35 PM
If I'm spending money on something, it has to be a physical thing that I can actually hold in my grubby paws, otherwise it doesn't really feel like I own it, like it is my own. It almost feels like a counterfeit.
I'd like to throw a tiny wrench into your thought process and see what happens.
When you buy a game on VC Nintendo gets cash money. When you buy the same game via eBay or used at GameStop Nintendo doesn't see a dime. You seem passionate about owning original copies of games you love, but don't you also want to see the people responsible for those games get some benefit in the form of payment?
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 17, 2009, 02:41:39 PM
Jonny, how do you plan to cycle in games from previous polls? Will you just slip them into new polls over time or will you have a poll on occasion where the rejected titles collectively get a shot at victory?
Good question. I'm open to suggestions on this point. The latter sounds like a good way to ensure that at least one of the overlooked games will be selected.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 17, 2009, 03:27:02 PM
Jonny, how do you plan to cycle in games from previous polls? Will you just slip them into new polls over time or will you have a poll on occasion where the rejected titles collectively get a shot at victory?
Good question. I'm open to suggestions on this point. The latter sounds like a good way to ensure that at least one of the overlooked games will be selected.
Then consider it suggested :) Now, as to how often, maybe every four RetroActives? We don't want it to be too frequent though so maybe a bit longer?
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Mop it up on March 17, 2009, 07:56:40 PM
I may be miss understanding you here but it sounds like you have a bit of an issue paying for the D/L. Or is this just linked to you placing the monetary value on the actual disks and carts?
That is correct. Like I said, if I’m spending money on something I want to physically own it. With VC games you’re essentially paying for a license to access that game for an undetermined period of time. It’s like an indefinite rental. You don’t own it, it doesn’t belong to you, and you can’t sell it if you decide you don’t want it anymore. It sort of takes away some of your rights as a consumer.
Just to clarify, I’m certainly not saying that companies don’t deserve to be paid for their works, no matter how old they may be. However, if they aren’t offering me their products in the form that I want, then they aren’t going to get my business.
Though I do not use ROMs for various reasons, personally I don’t see how they are any different than buying used games. In either case, the game companies won’t receive money for the game. Even if ROMs weren’t available, I wouldn’t purchase VC games because I don’t like downloads, so game companies aren’t losing any sales due to ROMs. In fact, if I weren’t against downloads then I would pay for VC games because they are less hassle, perfectly emulated, and can be played with multiple players.
One reason why I don’t use ROMs is the same as a reason why I don’t steal from retail stores: if I don’t pay for a game then I don’t feel as if I earned it, like I don’t deserve it. I couldn’t enjoy it with that guilt hanging over my head. The exception to this would of course be gifts, but in that case somebody still paid for it.
When you buy a game on VC Nintendo gets cash money. When you buy the same game via eBay or used at GameStop Nintendo doesn't see a dime. You seem passionate about owning original copies of games you love, but don't you also want to see the people responsible for those games get some benefit in the form of payment?
If Nintendo still produced the original copies of things like N64 games then I would buy them. If they aren’t offering me the product I want then I take my business elsewhere. It’s as simple as that. Besides, Nintendo have made it abundantly clear that they don’t need my business; they’re not some independent business where a single sale makes a huge difference on their finances so I don’t feel “guilty” that they haven’t received “some benefit”, which is arguable anyway.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 17, 2009, 08:31:35 PM
Good points Mop It Up. I didn't think you were endorsing ROMs, but I wanted to clarify instead of assuming anything. One reason why I don't think used game sales are the same as stealing though is because there is only one copy being passed around as opposed to a ROM that is copied and copied over a number of times and you can have an infinite number floating around. Having only one physical copy reduces this issue greatly since it can only be in one set of hands at a time.
Back to the current RA poll - The MAN-BEAM Game and Wave Race are neck and neck for second! This is intense.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 17, 2009, 11:34:21 PM
otherwise it doesn't really feel like I own it, like it is my own.
Actually, technically you don't. If you read all the legal mumbo jumbo, you will see that you are only downloading the license to play the game and that technically you don't own the game itself (I think this was even mentioned in RFN this week).
I see no problem with downloading VC games. While some are overpriced, some are vastly cheaper than buying a physical copy (like Secret of Mana).
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 18, 2009, 01:10:23 AM
According to the DMCA law, you don't "own" any piece of digital enertainment/software, even if you purchase it on physical media. There is basically a blanket EULA that says you have purchased a license to play a video game on the hardware in your home, but you can't claim ownership of it in court (under certain definitions). So legally, there is really no difference between buying a game on disc and downloading it.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 18, 2009, 02:21:12 AM
According to the DMCA law, you don't "own" any piece of digital enertainment/software, even if you purchase it on physical media. There is basically a blanket EULA that says you have purchased a license to play a video game on the hardware in your home, but you can't claim ownership of it in court (under certain definitions). So legally, there is really no difference between buying a game on disc and downloading it.
The DMCA is the Devil. I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: RABicle on March 18, 2009, 08:59:05 AM
I will only allow you to talk about Secret of Mana if you tear into it for being overated tosh.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 18, 2009, 02:34:32 PM
I am not a huge fan of the DMCA either, but I think you understand why they passed it. It gives them more legal ammo to fight pirates and those who "back-up" their games by claiming they have a right to.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 18, 2009, 06:06:44 PM
I am not a huge fan of the DMCA either, but I think you understand why they passed it. It gives them more legal ammo to fight pirates and those who "back-up" their games by claiming they have a right to.
And opens the door for people who make certain programs (virus) to sue the anti-virus companies for ruining their 'programs'.
Back to your regularily scheduled poll commentary: It seems that any time the MAN-BEAN game get new votes, Wave race and SGNG are quick to follow suit. They are not giving any ground in this quest for a quick return bout. SoM has slowed down but it got such a lead earlier that nothing seems to be able to muster the votes to topple it. This is more exciting than political elections. And less sensitive. I like RetroActive game polls better overall. :)
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NovaQ on March 18, 2009, 08:51:24 PM
But I thought it was fun to stay at the... oh, wait.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: NWR_Neal on March 18, 2009, 09:17:53 PM
I might participate with Secret of Mana only to reconfirm my dislike for it. That being said, GO CHO ANIKI!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Cambot on March 21, 2009, 12:17:59 AM
Oooh, I missed the voting, but my would-be pick won.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 21, 2009, 12:44:50 PM
Thanks to everyone who voted. We'll start discussing Secret of Mana on Episode 140. Wave Race 64 will carry through (again) to the next poll, since it placed in second. Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts and Cho Aniki will definitely be strong candidates for an upcoming "also-ran" RetroActive poll.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: TJ Spyke on March 21, 2009, 01:51:22 PM
I never played Secret of Mana, so I MIGHT get it (I say might because I still haven't beat Super Mario RPG, I have yet to start Wario Land: Shake It!, and I have a bunch of DVD's I bought a few weeks ago and haven't watched).
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 21, 2009, 04:28:32 PM
I never played Secret of Mana, so I MIGHT get it (I say might because I still haven't beat Super Mario RPG, I have yet to start Wario Land: Shake It!, and I have a bunch of DVD's I bought a few weeks ago and haven't watched).
I have a similar issue except I'll start all those games and only play for an hour and not touch it again for days or even weeks. Then I go back for another dose. Metroid games are like that where it takes a couple doses of light play before I get completely absorbed in it.
I find it interesting that no repeat game has won first yet. Incumbency doesn't seem to help much in this election.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: vudu on March 22, 2009, 10:19:57 AM
Here's a great entry on Secret of Mana that Jeremy Parish just wrote for his personal site. (http://www.gamespite.net/toastywiki/index.php/Games/SecretOfMana)
Go there. Read it. And stop voting for Secret of Mana and let me play something new for a change!!
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on March 22, 2009, 11:49:42 PM
I find it interesting that no repeat game has won first yet. Incumbency doesn't seem to help much in this election.
Yes, that is interesting. I think it's probably that a carry-over can only hope to sustain its number of votes the second time. There's a small chance that someone will be uninterested in the new candidates and will gravitate towards the carry-over if it was previously his or her second choice. It's more likely that some people who voted for the carry-over previously will be wooed away by one of the new candidates. The main reason I started that policy at all is that SGnG got so many votes the first time, and there seemed to be a clamor for it to have another chance as soon as possible.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 23, 2009, 01:54:05 AM
I think it's a great policy even if the returning game doesn't win. It gives a condolence prize to those that really wanted the 2nd place game and who knows, this is only the fourth RetroActive and the third public poll for the feature. We may see the trends shift over time depending on what games are paired up in the polls.
Having a 2nd place guarantee return could encourage people to vote for their preferred game in hopes that even if it isn't an obvious favorite to win their game could get a quick second chance.
Plus I think it adds to the excitement of watching the polls, though that may just be me.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: ShyGuy on March 26, 2009, 01:28:53 AM
Has anyone suggested Onslaught yet? I know it's not retro but it would be cool to have a discussion of a game you all played together. Or maybe Crystal Chronicles or Four Swords adventure if somebody wants to get the plane tickets.
Title: Re: RetroActive Game #4 Poll
Post by: Stratos on March 26, 2009, 09:58:51 AM
Has anyone suggested Onslaught yet? I know it's not retro but it would be cool to have a discussion of a game you all played together. Or maybe Crystal Chronicles or Four Swords adventure if somebody wants to get the plane tickets.
My little sister and I are still trying to beat the game. We don't always get to play because sometimes I forget to bring my SP over. I have a third gameboy advance out on loan to a friend that I can use. So I can acquire 3 GBAs and I have 4 of the cables.
