Community Forums => I'M BACK => Topic started by: Stogi on January 06, 2009, 02:59:30 AM
Title: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Stogi on January 06, 2009, 02:59:30 AM
This thread is dedicated to the chicken and the egg. Whenever I'm chillin with my buddies we always get into arguments over the strangest things. Well today was no different. We were out relaxing after dinner, playing pool when we started having this discussion; which came first? Speech or text?
What do you think?
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: ThePerm on January 06, 2009, 03:16:48 AM
Speech, text existed before 4000 bc, but it didn't become popular till this time. Then again there's no way to tell if people talked back then, but im betting they did. Also, if text appeared first, then alot more people would be literate by genetics alone. also, text rarely doesn't represent spoken sound.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 06, 2009, 03:25:25 AM
Do whales write? Do they communicate by vocals?
End of discussion.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Stogi on January 06, 2009, 03:35:03 AM
That's what I was saying. That text usually represents something thats already been said. But on the flip side, it seems more plausible to think that a drawing of deer came before the word deer.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: ThePerm on January 06, 2009, 03:40:58 AM
its hard to say what qualifies as text. Monkeys draw, but text is a system of writing
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Stogi on January 06, 2009, 03:42:54 AM
Drawings can be text though. Just look at the Egyptians. But it doesn't necessarily have to be a system either. It just hasn't to represent something.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Dasmos on January 06, 2009, 08:23:09 AM
Drawings have to be uniform before they could be considered a text, otherwise they're just symbols.
Also I'd bet pointing to things came before either text or speech.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: RABicle on January 06, 2009, 09:27:47 AM
Drawings can be text though. Just look at the Egyptians. But it doesn't necessarily have to be a system either. It just hasn't to represent something.
This is extremely offensive to Egyptians.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Dasmos on January 06, 2009, 09:47:10 AM
I agree. It's offensive to me and I'm only 1/16th Egyptian.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: nickmitch on January 06, 2009, 10:26:26 AM
Communication, text, and cave paintings are all different things. The latter two can be used for the former. But, I think that the paintings can hardly be described as text. A system of grunts could probably be closer to speech than paintings be text.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: ShyGuy on January 06, 2009, 11:47:37 AM
Spoken into existence. Lock this thread.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: King of Twitch on January 06, 2009, 01:37:35 PM
Texting is the New Tongue-Clicking October 29, 20008 BC at 23:19 PDT (Prehistoric Daylight Time) by Jonathan Og, Contributing Caveman
I've long been a critic of communication that involve drawing symbols into the cave's built-in rock board. It's a forced, cynical use of a hardware feature that should either be used properly or not at all. Paints are for making Og's face look intimidating in war or coloring togas, not for communicating. Lazy developers have turned this potentially revolutionary aspect of the cave into a glorified communication tool, much like the plague of tongue "waggle" in some dialects.
Starting with Og Band last year, the blatant misuse of texts in caveing has crossed over into stalagmite territory. This is a new development sin, though. Popular music games with karaoke-like gameplay are now asking cavers to paint letters into the cave in order to activate "communication" or some equivalent. Don't get me wrong, texting is a legitimate element of rock dwelling, but it certainly doesn't belong in every cave. Moreover, the mechanic just doesn't work very well. I'm extremely disappointed to hear that this glaring design flaw hasn't been addressed in Og Band 2, and it seems to have been directly copied for Og Hero: Mammoth Tour.
When playing Og Band with friends, I usually spend a lot of time texting; most other people seem to consider it some kind of duty that must be fulfilled until your next turn at the spear-toss. But I like texting, and I'm happy to take care of that role. Sadly, the vocals portion of Og Band seems to get no love from the developers, either. Putting aside my many qualms with the pitch tracking, it's completely ridiculous that there is no good way to activate Communication on the cave. Texting looks terrible for many animals, and sometimes it doesn't even work. Other times, loud noises in the room (a.k.a. the drums, or little Og torturing a small Lesothosaurus) can set off your paint by accident. Hitting the paint brush in your hand, as you would for the tambourine beats, doesn't seem to work very well either. Perhaps the most effective way to activate communication is –you guessed it– using a mixture of your own blood. Regardless of your method, it will look horrible when cave man look back at it in 20000 years.
If the point of these music games is to make you feel like you're really changing into cro-magnon man, why can't the developers find some way to activate the communication without totally ruining that immersion? All it would take is one small stencil. These companies are willing to ship $70 spears and $100 drum sets, but they can't be bothered to include anything other than a cheap, plain $10 paint brush. Heck, at least give us the option to communicate using yelps and shrieks! MadSaberToothCatz makes a premium animal stencil for Og Band on Xbox ~:##, featuring its own dino and buffalo families, but these can't be used to activate communication because other cave men aren't advanced for that functionality.
Am I the only one bothered by the complete disregard for these games' cavernal components?
Update: Since I posted this og entry, some readers have noted in the Ogback thread that Og Hero: Mammoth Tour does allow you to shout and grunt. Now we'll see if Harmonix will use the extra three moons of development on the swamp version of Og Band 2 to fix this problem.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Stogi on January 06, 2009, 05:17:45 PM
Drawings can be text though. Just look at the Egyptians. But it doesn't necessarily have to be a system either. It just hasn't to represent something.
This is extremely offensive to Egyptians.
I'm Sudanese, it's my right to be offensive towards Egyptians.
Anyway, I've already heard all the arguments about Speech vs. Text before I even made this thread. How about we discuss something else? For instance, what came first? Religion or prayer?
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on January 06, 2009, 05:19:40 PM
Drawings can be text though. Just look at the Egyptians. But it doesn't necessarily have to be a system either. It just hasn't to represent something.
This is extremely offensive to Egyptians.
I'm Sudanese, it's my right to be offensive towards Egyptians.
Anyway, I've already heard all the arguments about Speech vs. Text before I even made this thread. How about we discuss something else? For instance, what came first? Religion or prayer?
Ehem. Just a reminder this topic could easily turn into something that is against the rules.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: EasyCure on January 06, 2009, 05:38:55 PM
Drawings can be text though. Just look at the Egyptians. But it doesn't necessarily have to be a system either. It just hasn't to represent something.
This is extremely offensive to Egyptians.
I'm Sudanese, it's my right to be offensive towards Egyptians.
Anyway, I've already heard all the arguments about Speech vs. Text before I even made this thread. How about we discuss something else? For instance, what came first? Chicken or the egg?
Fixed for GP
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Stogi on January 06, 2009, 05:55:09 PM
Drawings can be text though. Just look at the Egyptians. But it doesn't necessarily have to be a system either. It just hasn't to represent something.
This is extremely offensive to Egyptians.
I'm Sudanese, it's my right to be offensive towards Egyptians.
Anyway, I've already heard all the arguments about Speech vs. Text before I even made this thread. How about we discuss something else? For instance, what came first? Religion or prayer?
Ehem. Just a reminder this topic could easily turn into something that is against the rules.
What? Really? I'm not talking about different religions, but religion as a whole.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: EasyCure on January 06, 2009, 06:00:37 PM
Forum rules prohibit religious discussion as a whole too.
So how about them eggs? ;)
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 06, 2009, 07:21:18 PM
WHO CUM FURST?
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: EasyCure on January 06, 2009, 07:34:30 PM
So if pictures can tell a story or an event, can that be considered text?
Movies are little more than a series of pictures shown in rapid succession. Are movies considered text?
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Stogi on January 07, 2009, 09:06:55 PM
What about sign language?
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: nickmitch on January 08, 2009, 01:18:58 AM
Gestures can't be text. That'd just be silly. Braille, on the other hand, would work.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: Stogi on January 08, 2009, 01:47:14 AM
Ya, but can gestures be speech? 90% of communication is body language.
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: ThePerm on January 08, 2009, 02:29:34 AM
id say gestures are speech, heck saying not so would be offensive to deaf people
Title: Re: The What Came First? Thread
Post by: nickmitch on January 08, 2009, 12:23:26 PM
Of course gestures are speech. But, I think "writings" and "printings" are text. Where as "drawings" and "paintings" aren't, but can still be a means of communication. Unless, of course, you're printing images.
